| === ev_ is now known as ev | ||
| jMCg | Keybuk: ETA until the new, super great features are released? (Automatic logging, run as user, capabilities) | 20:54 |
|---|---|---|
| Keybuk | jMCg: I don't have a patch for automatic logging ;) | 21:36 |
| jMCg | Keybuk: how difficult is it to achieve that everything upstart runs through exec, pre-start, post-start, etc... has it's stdout and stderr filtered to /var/log/upstart/service[:instance].log ? | 21:38 |
| jMCg | That would be really helpful, when you change a config, restart, and all of sudden mysql is givin you the finger and you don't know why. | 21:40 |
| Keybuk | jMCg: it requires a logging service running that receives input from those file descriptors and writes to the filesystem | 21:41 |
| Keybuk | while coping with buffering due to read-only filesystem during boot | 21:41 |
| Keybuk | and deals with a filesystem being fundamentally read-only (Chromium OS, for example) | 21:42 |
| Keybuk | and also avoiding the problem where if that logging service dies, every single process on the system immediately SIGPIPEs | 21:42 |
| jMCg | Keybuk: I suppose SMF simply requires you to run your Solaris on an Filesystem that doesn't suck... - or it logs only services which depend on milestones >= filesystem | 21:44 |
| Keybuk | I don't know, I haven't looked at SMF in years | 21:45 |
| jMCg | And I haven't looked at it in.. hours. | 21:45 |
| JanC | Keybuk: weren't you going to include a logging daemon, cron, initd, at, udevd, a dbus daemon and an X session manager into upstart? ;-) | 22:07 |
| jMCg | No X please, it's obsolete. But we could put in a kernel. | 22:08 |
| JanC | :P | 22:09 |
| Keybuk | JanC: a variation of "include into" that means people could pick and chose their components and defaults | 22:11 |
| Keybuk | upstart is not systemd after all ;) | 22:11 |
| JanC | well, I think personally you don't need cron into upstart, but a time-based service could issue events that upstart then handles | 22:13 |
| jMCg | IIRC, launchd has something of that kind | 22:14 |
| JanC | which is probably what you were thinking already | 22:14 |
| Keybuk | JanC: I see that as the same thing | 22:15 |
| jMCg | "cgroups are used to track service processes, instead of PIDs. This means that daemons cannot "escape" systemd even by double-forking." | 23:08 |
| ion | There are problems with using cgroups like that, which is why Upstart will go with an approach based on proc connector. | 23:09 |
| jMCg | I thought it used ptrace? | 23:09 |
| ion | “will go” | 23:10 |
| Keybuk | jMCg: and yet systemd explicitly recommends software doesn't daemonize | 23:11 |
| Keybuk | man daemon on a sd system | 23:11 |
| Keybuk | so I guess that works well for them | 23:11 |
| jMCg | Keybuk: what does upstart recommend? | 23:12 |
| Keybuk | "Moreover, since some of these steps interfere with process monitoring [...] of the init system is recommended not to execute them" | 23:12 |
| Keybuk | jMCg: Upstart recommends that if your software doesn't work with the init daemon, you file a bug on the init daemon ;) | 23:12 |
| jMCg | +1 :) | 23:13 |
| JanC | well, I guess there are several ways to handle forking etc., and all have pros & cons? | 23:13 |
| JanC | the easiest is if services are well-behaving themselves ;) | 23:14 |
| ion | Daemonizing can’t really be thought as bad behavior per se. | 23:15 |
| ion | In fact it can used as a good indicator about when the daemon is ready. | 23:16 |
| JanC | right, but I was thinking more about starting sub-processes and then not keeping track of them | 23:16 |
| jMCg | heh.. SMF has killed my "daemons" after a timeout (usually 60) seconds, when I forgot to add a '&' | 23:17 |
| JanC | sombody complained about the earlier | 23:17 |
| JanC | about that | 23:17 |
| jMCg | That was me. | 23:17 |
| JanC | ;) | 23:17 |
| jMCg | I've got a bug on that. | 23:17 |
| jMCg | https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TS-755 | 23:18 |
| jMCg | I said if nobody complains, I'll commit that shit. Nobody's complained in three days. I think I can commit it. | 23:19 |
| JanC | hehe, we just set a rule for the new ubuntu-be locoteam leadership council "if nobody complains within 7 days, a proposal is accepted" ;) | 23:21 |
| jMCg | How long can someone complain about that rule, or is that instantly valid? | 23:22 |
| JanC | it was proposed last Monday, and will be formally accepted next Sunday ;) | 23:22 |
| jMCg | On a sunday, that's unfair, people are hungover on sunday. | 23:23 |
| jMCg | wh00t. I just realized, I haven't tested this shit. | 23:23 |
| JanC | Sunday evening :P | 23:24 |
| JanC | anyway | 23:24 |
| JanC | it was already accepted by everybody important today :P | 23:24 |
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