[00:00] new xorg has broken support for old products, and no OSS driver replaces them yet [00:00] hmmm. [00:00] anyways,me tired. good night everyone, sleep well. [00:01] nn :) [00:01] shutdown -h now [00:01] nn :) [00:01] this is also why I could see the move by nokia to choose wp7 possibly a good thing [00:02] :( [00:10] [Dominic Watkins] USB attached disk hangs - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/04/28/usb-attached-disk-hangs/ [00:32] o/ [00:32] gosh, is that the time? [00:33] :) [00:33] evening all [00:34] popey: [00:34] mind if I go mad with rail under the volcano? [00:34] fill yer boots [00:34] :D [00:34] you saw the rail i monkeyed with? [00:34] feel free to do whatever :) [00:34] erm, where? [00:35] i tweaked the ones near spawn [00:35] oh, yeh [00:35] I'm tweaking it again [00:35] ;) [00:35] ooo volcanos [00:35] want an underground station in the volcano [00:35] no more lava [00:36] health and safety ftl :/ [00:36] i started heading out to the pyramid [00:36] underground sounds fun [00:36] http://popey.com/minecraft/gmap/?lat=0.534709&lng=0.403849&zoom=6 [00:36] whose is that? [00:36] ali1234: ? [00:36] join #ubuntu [00:37] hi [00:37] the castle half done looks kinda cool [00:37] haha the space invaders setup is epic [00:37] popey: I have a huge underground base on my server :D [00:38] is anyone available to help with a question? [00:38] ask away kyle__ [00:38] Yeah 90% of my offline game is underground fortress. [00:38] popey: it has 4 rooms, 20x20x6 each, along with a hallway and gate room and mob farm, dug it all out manually [00:38] :) [00:38] :) [00:38] or bugger off [00:38] :/ [00:39] oh well, back to important subjects like.... \o/ [00:39] I was also thinking, I may have to build "hamitron's wall" [00:39] ;) [00:39] but that is later ofc [00:40] :) [00:40] bed time [00:40] nn [00:40] nn drunken popey [00:42] * TheOpenSourcerer just noticed some dialogue on here, then decided it too is bedtime. nn. [00:44] i am just trying to run ubntu from usb only [00:44] i got further than i did before in that i could boot from the usb, but then hangs? beta 2 worked ok in live setting and even had unity working [00:56] better get to bed early... so I have the energy to survive a long day of wedding stuff [00:57] o/ [01:10] [Michael Wood] Sony KDL-32W4000 xrandr lines - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2011/04/29/sony-kdl-32w4000-xrandr-lines/ [03:29] :( how do i turn unity off ? [03:31] Install Xubuntu? [03:33] ahh thats better ubuntu classic session [05:15] exit [05:38] grub2 is driving me scatty :( [05:41] shauno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--I1v8K9zxw [05:43] bingo :) [05:54] seriously starting to think grub-mkimage is a practical joke [05:56] the resulting image isn't capable of doing anything without any modules. it can't load any modules because it doesn't understand the filesystems (without the relevant modules ..) [05:56] and appears to be incapable of embedding modules. there's a --memdisk option, but it's refusing to load modules from that either [06:02] hm, well that's why. (memdisk) is returning no such disk [06:02] I can only assume that memdisk is also a module that it can't freaking load either [06:03] ... /boot/grub/memdisk.mod [06:03] seriously [06:52] this is getting interesting. it is booting. if I sit and wait it out, I get the welcome sound on the livecd [06:52] but the grub prompt stays on the screen the whole time [06:59] you know, I never noticed how mounted partitions on boot startup showed up as being owned by "root" and group "plugdev" until I just got a "does not have write permissions" error in an application. What the deal with that? [07:10] apparently /etc/fstab say: defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46 [07:10] guessing that's why its not mounting up as me, but is there an advantage of it not booting as me? [07:11] for which filesystem? [07:11] /mount/win7 [07:11] aka my win7 install [07:11] same for my storage mount point [07:11] Are you in group plugdev? [07:11] /mount/storage [07:12] well that's just it, I assumed I was since I can add/delete files as normal [07:12] however I have an application in wine that's saying /it/ can't read or write [07:12] so I'm wondering if its just wine's permissions, or mine [07:16] Difficult to look atm .. Still parked at a grub prompt :) === Hornet- is now known as Hornet [07:23] I've an aweful feeling it's trying to use the wrong gpu :/ [07:33] bah, sod it sleep time [07:33] also, being release date yesterday really annoyed me [07:33] just updated someone to 10.10... and well, it took FOREVER to update T_T [07:33] I did warn them it might be a bad idea to update today [07:34] (referring to yesterday) [07:34] Can't figure out what to put in video= which might stop it being stupid :( [07:37] Although so far, it seems to be ignoring that anyway [07:37] shauno: is this grub [07:38] Kinda. atm it's radeondrmfb in the kernel [07:39] it keeps removing efi vga in preference if the radeon driver. But because it doesn't handle gpu switching, that's the last output I get [07:39] weird [07:40] of course, radeonfb completely ignores the video= line, because it knows better (/facepalm) [07:49] \o/ [07:49] lol [07:50] still can't figure out whether it should be a good idea to change what my win7 or storage folder should be mounted as T_T [07:50] or if I should just change the owner of the applications folder... [07:55] yay, internet stream of the royal weddin [07:56] Myrtti: ... [07:56] oy [07:56] internet is running slow for me today i hope it isnt royal wedding related load [07:56] Even inlaws-to-be remembered me... :-X http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5661639862/ [07:56] cheeky old gits [07:57] Told them they shouldn't have had the stag party in the NOC ... [07:57] Myrtti: Sorry, I don't like the concept of hereditary rulers too much :) [07:57] Myrtti: (even though I live in a monarchy..) [07:57] anyway, all I'm really interested is Kates dress and how that huge load of money on flowers has been used in the church [07:57] bah, I don't see why people are making such a fuss... woo, people get married all the time lol [07:58] HazRPG: exactly. Though most weddings don't cost £50m [07:58] I think it's more about women making a fuss [07:58] MartijnVdS: True... but still, woo wedding? Hurray? [07:58] as they always do [08:00] MartijnVdS: Just bought the Jonathan Coulton album from u1ms \o/ [08:02] MartijnVdS: Ooo, you might be able to advise me :) - /etc/fstab... should I change my ntfs /mount/storage (used by both win/linux - although I haven't booted into windows for 4 months now \o/) from defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46 0 0 to just defaults,nls=utf8? [08:03] sorry change it to defaults,nls=utf8 0 0 even. [08:03] That'll just make it root:root instead of root:plugdev [08:04] yeah, but /home is mounted in the same fashion... surely if you set to defaults only, you can actually change the owner of points as and when needed [08:05] as it stands I can't change the owner of anything [08:05] (tried chmod and chown :/) [08:05] Home us different because it's a native fs, so it supports ownerships [08:06] for ntfs, whoever owns the mount, has ownership of everything [08:06] ah, so is this a problem with it being ntfs more than it is being mounted incorrectly? [08:06] so bit of both then [08:07] well considering this system is only used by me, changing it gid to 1000 should be fine (setting it as group = me basically) [08:07] right? [08:08] any security things I should be paranoid about, if I did that? [08:08] Probably ;) [08:08] If it's only your system, no :) [08:08] Sure. Any viruses in wine can infect you windows drive ;) [08:08] shauno: I grep'ed /etc/passwd to make sure the group was 1000 ;D [08:09] shauno: okay, that's definitely a big Con. then [08:10] hmm [08:10] so, I burnt the image to disk, to see if the options the cd uses were wildly different from what I'm using for grub-efi [08:10] the answer is, no, I get no video output from the cd either [08:11] so ow I have to go dig up a beta2 iso because the release is a huge regression [08:11] in that case... hmm, wondering if it would just make more sense to make a mount point for the application inside /home//.wine/drive_c/Program\ Files\ then? [08:11] shauno: we testing natty out? [08:12] HazRPG: no, we're throwing it against the wall in disgust, and trying to see if we can find a debian iso that has the grub-loopback stuff [08:13] shauno: in that case, wouldn't it be easier to install grub2 and then go from there? [08:13] I have grub2 [08:14] what I don't have, is a kernel with a valid video mode [08:15] I'm going on a limb, but I'm guessing you tried to loopback the iso in grub then [08:15] yes. it boots, runs along quite happily until the radeon driver decides I was only kidding about setting video=efifb, and then I lose video [08:16] interesting [08:17] if I sit staring at a blank screen for long enough, I get the login sound from gnome, so it's even booting into X without figuring out which gpu to use [08:24] why do I get the feeling the stuff on: http://wiki.debian.org/MacBookPro is about AFTER you installed it and not how to get it to install [08:26] shauno: don't know if this will help, but sounds like what your trying to do but missing a few parameters: http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/fb/efifb.txt [08:27] shauno: your typing in video=efifb, seems your missing a colon and something else after it [08:27] what I have works until the radeon driver kicks in :/ [08:28] HazRPG: installing Ubuntu on a Macbook Pro is easy, it's Windows that has problems installing. [08:28] dwatkins: Ubuntu maybe, he's trying to install debian though :P [08:29] heh, not this one apparently :/ ubuntu 10.10 and 11.04 are both unbootable due to my sata bug :/ [08:29] hmmm, I wasn't aware there would be any difference in the bootloaders [08:29] dwatkins: don't think it's the boot loader, I think it's the free ATI graphics driver stuff that's causing the problems [08:29] and apparently unbootable from grub-efi due to $deity knows what [08:30] I plan on putting Ubuntu on my MBP7.1, but only when I have a larger hard disk in it. [08:30] shauno: oh yeah, forgot your lil fight to get ubuntu running on it too [08:32] shauno: still think it might be worth trying to put :i20 or :i17 at the end of efifb [08:33] shauno: I forget, what version you rolling with again? MBP 8.2? [08:33] yup [08:33] score, what a guess \o/ [08:34] (I knew it was 8.x) [08:39] Hm. Adding :i17 gives me no output at all [08:39] shauno: thought your was a 17"? [08:39] 17" = :i20 (don't know why :S?) [08:39] Nope, that's 8,3 [08:39] ah [08:41] my google fu seems to lead me to believe it should just work - the only thing they're still debating over is bluetooth, but patches exist for them, they just haven't been applied to the kernel just yet [08:43] shauno: hmmm... do you have a HDMI port or a VGA/DVI port on there? And can you test these ports? [08:43] shauno: I have a feeling its just selecting the first one and using that first [08:44] I just need to find a way to tell radeonfb to and die [08:46] MartijnVdS: Wow, did Jonathan Coulton do the original Portal song too! [08:46] ?* [08:46] HazRPG: yes, he did. [08:47] ♫ I'm making a note here: "Huge Success" [08:47] MartijnVdS: Just listening to "Best. Concert. Ever." and it came on and I was like ... wtf? ... lol [08:50] shauno: I know its old, and its bug related... but maybe that's the file you need to tinker with? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=433236 [08:50] Debian bug 433236 in linux-2.6 "linux-image-2.6.21-2-powerpc: radeonfb broken with Apple Cinema Display connected via DVI" [Important,Fixed] [08:51] or am I right in thinking that's what you are tinkering with [08:51] (trying to help...) [08:51] Sort of. Except yaboot doesn't exist [08:53] shauno: really? This dude (2010) is talking about the same thing, and he set it to radeonfb:off http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/radeon-crashes-radeonfb-system-locked-help-200303531.html [08:53] or do something similar in grub's conf? [08:53] *shrug* [08:55] yarly. Yaboot is for openfirmware/ppc [08:56] ah [08:56] morning all [08:57] radeon:off and radeondrmfb:off both make no difference :( [08:57] bah [08:58] fb: conflicting fb hw usage radeondrmfb vs EFI VGA - removing generic driver [08:58] That's the last line I get [09:01] morning earthlings. [09:02] greetings fellow biped [09:05] mornin [09:05] * TheOpenSourcerer wonders why I have a slight headache today [09:29] * gordonjcp wonders why he has no headache today [09:39] MORNING ALL -> TheOpenSourcerer :D [09:39] how's the headache now? [09:39] morning - still rather tender. [09:40] I have just kicked off the upgrade to my son's PC - just over 1GB of downloads required! [09:40] with a surname like Lord, why aren't you at the wedding? [09:40] I turned it down [09:40] quite right [09:41] shauno: ... why did that work :S? [09:43] shauno: I changed it from root:plugdev (umount'ed and then mount'ed it again manually), and it was the root:root, when I ran the application - its having no more issues! This makes no sense to me :S [09:48] Did you change the umask? [09:49] NO U MASK [09:49] Y U NO MASK? [09:49] AlanBell: I'm hot enough without one. [09:55] What do you call the technique that creates those twitter/facebook type badges that slide up and down a web page as you scroll? [09:55] TheOpenSourcerer: HazRPG might know. He's a web man [09:56] shauno: I haven't changed anything, as far as I'm aware [09:56] shauno: I ran "sudo mount /dev/sdc1 /media/win7 -t ntfs" on it [09:57] I assumed that would just remount it the same way as what was in fstab (from the way I understood it from the man pages) [09:57] TheOpenSourcerer: can you give an example of a page that does it? [09:57] So you did change a lot :) [09:57] TheOpenSourcerer: badge thing? [09:57] MartijnVdS: Not off the top of my head. [09:57] That'd maintain defaults but not umask= or gid= [09:57] Omg ubuntu articles do it [09:58] It's typically a vertical-text badge on the side of a web page that stays in the same place as you scroll the page up and down. [09:58] TheOpenSourcerer: oh you mean like the fixed stuff on the screen? [09:58] position:fixed? [09:58] yeah, kind of. [09:58] more like static [09:59] TheOpenSourcerer: I say fixed, but its more they move as the page does so it /looks/ like it isn't moving [09:59] * HazRPG rattles brain for what they're called [09:59] fixed to the viewport, not the page :) [09:59] Yes. I'm trying to find some tutorial but I don't know what they are called. I tried sliding badges but that was useless [09:59] MartijnVdS: bingo ;D [10:00] badges to me would mean "signature" but are a bit more dynamic then that [10:00] I wouldn't call those badges [10:00] TheOpenSourcerer: I'd look for "fixed" in the CSS manual :) [10:00] it won' [10:00] it won't slide-after-scroll, but _during_ that way [10:01] MartijnVdS: I think he's more after a javascript trick then a css one [10:01] but I could be looking at it wrong [10:02] I don't know, "floating javascript box" or something maybe? [10:03] TheOpenSourcerer: does this look about right? http://jqueryfordesigners.com/fixed-floating-elements/ [10:03] it's just position:fixed in css [10:04] position:fixed;top:0;right:0; should stuff something in the top-right corner and keep it there [10:04] fixed is relative to the window, absolute is relative to the document [10:04] shauno: that sort of thing requires that you make sure everything else is referenced properly, otherwise you can have some serious problems with setting stuff fixed [10:05] HazRPG: Thanks, that's along the right lines yes. [10:05] e.g. set something fixed, everything else might bump up from where it was previous to the new gap caused [10:05] * czajkowski prods TheOpenSourcerer [10:05] HazRPG: no, fixed elements aren't part of flow [10:05] TheOpenSourcerer: Just thought a jQuery solution would be nicer and easier to maintain :) [10:06] morning czajkowski [10:06] javascript gives you that strange effect where things move while the page is scrolling, and catchup [10:06] shauno: yes, or they move on after you stop scrolling [10:06] shauno: yeah, I thought that was what he was after (twitter/facebook was examples) [10:07] TheOpenSourcerer: 'ows the head [10:07] improving slowlt [10:07] slowly [10:08] http://demo.superdit.com/css/fixed_absolute_position/ that's a good example of the difference [10:09] This is the kind of thing. (Mootools is better for this as it will be on Joomla! and mootools is already loaded. http://davidwalsh.name/dw-content/scrolling-sidebar.php [10:10] I don't like that it scrolls after you scroll [10:10] instead of just staying in place [10:10] yeah, that's what I meant by catchup. it always lags behind window events [10:11] shauno: ah, in that case you'd have a javascript to change the css after you get to a certain point :) [10:12] you'd change it from absolute to fixed [10:12] so why not used fixed in the first place :o) [10:12] which is why the tutorial I link to works best if you watch the video [10:12] shauno: *points at example of the shopping cart of apple site* [10:13] the cart is placed as natural flow on the website, but when you scroll down it gets changed to fixed so that you can always see how much your total is as your going along [10:15] *points here: http://jqueryfordesigners.com/video.php?f=fixedfloat.flv * === ChrisB_ is now known as Guest81115 [10:23] sorry, very off topic but a great tweet "Prince Harry has taken his inappropriate fancy dress reputation a step further by coming as Colonel Gaddafi" [10:24] I just don't see why you need to hack something together in javascript when it exists already in the standard [10:27] it's html [10:28] http://shaun.oneil.me.uk/test/ (and /test/style.css). fixed scroll. one line of css. zero lag. [10:28] there is no standard [10:31] I just find it silly that you can do it properly, quicker than the 'web developers' can figure out what js library to use this week [10:32] your example doesn't work btw [10:32] works in every browser I've got :/ [10:33] its fixed here too [10:33] however, fail dude, your stuck with "Some Lipsum" perma attached to the right hand side [10:33] madfish, hahahah [10:33] I thought that's what he's actually trying to do? [10:33] or do people actually want the js lag [10:34] shauno: you can do js without lag :/ [10:34] guessing no one watched the video I linked :/ [10:34] the reason there's lag is because js tries to constantly work it out... [10:34] right. because the window events are slower than the renderer [10:35] ha, no [10:35] html renderers are damn slow [10:35] Morning all [10:35] if you just get the reference code straight out of the browser, and then assign it to a constant, ... you can then flip it from "absolute" to "fixed" [10:36] yes [10:36] btw when he says in the video it doesn't work in ie6 [10:36] it's only partly true [10:36] it actually doesn't work in ie 7 or 8 and probably 9 or 10 either [10:36] so lets say what you want fixed isn't until say half way on a regular 17" screen... on a widescreen, this won't show at all until they scroll... if you had this fixed all the time... this would never show at all... so this trick is so when you stroll down... and once that panel/whatever hits the top of the browser, its changed to fixed [10:37] morning popey - how's the head? [10:38] I'm apparently completely missing what you're actually trying to do [10:38] because that sounds like some proper twisted 1998 style dhtml trash :) [10:38] shauno: not everyone has a 1280x1024 screen like me xD [10:38] (or even 2 of them!) [10:38] shauno: watch the videooooooooooooo [10:38] shauno: exactly! [10:38] shauno: http://jqueryfordesigners.com/video.php?f=fixedfloat.flv [10:39] shauno: it uses position:fixed exactly like your demo [10:39] yeah but the whole right hand side of the screen is being used for nothing other than "Some Lipsum" on your demo dude lol [10:40] good morning [10:40] shauno: you've used apple store? What happens to the cart as you scroll? Does that lag? (should hope not cos it gets flipped from absolute to fixed) [10:41] madfish: not bad, didnt drink much tbh [10:41] popey: good party? [10:41] Yes, good fun [10:43] popey: the other alans drank for you ;) [10:43] heh, yes [10:44] shauno: all the js is doing, is checking to see where the current scrollbar is... if the scrollbar is has been moved beyond a set number, then the css gets changed to fixed, however, if the scrollbar is less then a set number you could just have it move with the page as normal in absolute. [10:44] load balancing betweeen the alans :p [10:44] HazRPG: I don't see anywhere where he asked for that [10:45] shauno: value of top [10:45] top is the scrollbar number [10:45] co-ords of y [10:45] lol [10:46] he does a regexp on the string to prevent 'auto' from returning NaN [10:46] instead of just catching the NaN and converting that to integer zero [10:46] ali1234: he does :) [10:47] web designers [10:47] bah I'm a developer not a designer, I hate anything that isn't php [10:48] HazRPG++ [10:48] I can do html/css... but when js is involved, I'd avoid it like the plague unless I REALLY must [10:48] * wintellect agrees with HazRPG [10:49] plus, I can draw/design for the life of me :/ [10:49] give me a sheet to work from, and I'm fine [10:49] developer != designer, and it really annoys me that people think it's the same thing [10:49] designers muck everything up :) [10:50] (previous job description was web designer... tried to get another job as a php programmer, and got rejected because they weren't looking for a designer despite my previous job had nothing to do with designing at all) [10:51] they literally based it on the fact that my official position was "designer" [10:51] and I didn't write it on my CV as designer, they actually rang them up and asked... and they said "oh well he did this and that and blah... oh his job title? Web designer..." [10:52] I facepalm'ed when I found out T_T [10:52] argh :( [10:52] indeed, was really frustrating [10:53] didn't help that it was a "print/design" company I worked for [10:53] Anyone that does *anything* on a website is called a "web designer" [10:53] the reason they hired me was cos they wanted to cash in on web development, not just designing the layouts [10:53] wintellect: sadly :/ [10:54] bah, just realised I typed "I can draw" instead of "I can't" [10:55] apparently I can't type either :P [10:55] HazRPG: are you sure you should be working with computers? :P [10:55] wintellect: sometimes wonder :P [10:56] my problem is my mind thinks faster than my hands can type it - I sometimes miss words altogether, that can be fun to try and work out sometimes :P [10:56] I do that all the time [10:56] or type ":wq" in notepad in the office [10:56] or Dreamweaver [10:56] xD [10:57] I find trying to hit the tab key inside of a browser, doesn't always do the effect you were after xD [10:57] rofl [10:58] "type type type type type tab type type type ... where'd my cursor go!?" [10:59] looks like its going to be another all night/dayer [10:59] heading to the shop for some supplies, bbl [11:10] natty upgrades have begun - YAY! [11:13] wintellect: what's been updated? [11:13] \o [11:13] still a bit sceptical over natty [11:14] i've been beta testing, now waiting for everyone to do the real testing before my prod machines get it! [11:15] oimon: the whole OS [11:15] 2hrs 30mins left [11:16] wintellect: I'd have selected a different server to grab off - unless that's the normal amount of time it would take you to download a CD [11:17] wintellect: I tried to update someone's machine up to 10.10 last night/this morning... and it took forever, presumably because everyone's been updating their machines [11:20] get it from the german mirror [11:20] thats much quicker [11:21] http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/ [11:23] I've just started a machine here and it took 12 minutes to download the update using one of the uk servers but not the default one [11:25] DJones: that's my point :) - don't use the default, cos there will be LOTS of people using the default [11:25] germans don't like natty? [11:25] oimon: germans probably have faster overall internets ;D [11:26] HazRPG: Very true, most people wouldn't think to change from the default servers (casual users might not even realise you change thinking its like windows & uses a central point) [11:27] windows doesn't use a central point === ChrisB_ is now known as Guest67862 [11:28] I'd assume they use akamai, if they've got any sense [11:29] i suspect the UK server is flooded because AIUI it's the default for all countries that don't have their own default server [11:29] plus the UK server isn't just one server [11:30] so USA points to the UK server I think [11:30] oo, usa has lots of servers now [11:30] still all in the uk DC by the look of it [11:37] i'm downloading from the university of kent mirror at ~300KB/s [11:39] jacobw: I just rely on the auto ping ratio - I run the test 3 times and whichever came up on top out of those 3 times... I select and pick that one [11:40] auto select* even [11:40] good morning everyone, [11:40] i'd forgotten about auto select, how do you do it again/ [11:40] hi brobostigon, how do? [11:41] goodmorning jacobw ad HazRPG :) [11:41] jacobw: not so, hot, not feeling very well. [11:41] brobostigon: morning dude :) [11:41] :) [11:43] jacobw: system -> admin -> update manager -> settings (button) -> Ubuntu Software (tab), on the "Download from:" section pick "other" then pick "Select Best Server" button [11:43] personally I think that's too many clicks for that, and it would be better coded to automatically do it... but meh lol [11:44] 52mins left of upgrade... [11:44] wintellect: has it started upgrading or is it just downloading? [11:57] Hello , Salam Alykom people [11:58] popey: upgrading. 30mins left now [11:58] HazRPG: i thought you could do it with apt? [11:58]