[00:00] <hamitron> new xorg has broken support for old products, and no OSS driver replaces them yet
[00:00] <brobostigon> hmmm.
[00:00] <brobostigon> anyways,me tired. good night everyone, sleep well.
[00:01] <hamitron> nn :)
[00:01] <brobostigon> shutdown -h  now
[00:01] <brobostigon> nn :)
[00:01] <hamitron> this is also why I could see the move by nokia to choose wp7 possibly a good thing
[00:02] <hamitron> :(
[00:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] USB attached disk hangs - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/04/28/usb-attached-disk-hangs/
[00:32] <AlanBell> o/
[00:32] <AlanBell> gosh, is that the time?
[00:33] <hamitron> :)
[00:33] <popey> evening all
[00:34] <hamitron> popey:
[00:34] <hamitron> mind if I go mad with rail under the volcano?
[00:34] <popey> fill yer boots
[00:34] <hamitron> :D
[00:34] <popey> you saw the rail i monkeyed with?
[00:34] <popey> feel free to do whatever :)
[00:34] <hamitron> erm, where?
[00:35] <popey> i tweaked the ones near spawn
[00:35] <hamitron> oh, yeh
[00:35] <hamitron> I'm tweaking it again
[00:35] <hamitron> ;)
[00:35] <popey> ooo volcanos
[00:35] <hamitron> want an underground station in the volcano
[00:35] <popey> no more lava
[00:36] <hamitron> health and safety ftl :/
[00:36] <popey> i started heading out to the pyramid
[00:36] <popey> underground sounds fun
[00:36] <popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/gmap/?lat=0.534709&lng=0.403849&zoom=6
[00:36] <popey> whose is that?
[00:36] <popey> ali1234: ?
[00:36] <kyle__> join #ubuntu
[00:37] <kyle__> hi
[00:37] <hamitron> the castle half done looks kinda cool
[00:37] <Oli``> haha the space invaders setup is epic
[00:37] <Azelphur> popey: I have a huge underground base on my server :D
[00:38] <kyle__> is anyone available to help with a question?
[00:38] <hamitron> ask away kyle__
[00:38] <Oli``> Yeah 90% of my offline game is underground fortress.
[00:38] <Azelphur> popey: it has 4 rooms, 20x20x6 each, along with a hallway and gate room and mob farm, dug it all out manually
[00:38] <hamitron> :)
[00:38] <popey> :)
[00:38] <hamitron> or bugger off
[00:38] <hamitron> :/
[00:39] <hamitron> oh well, back to important subjects like.... \o/
[00:39] <hamitron> I was also thinking, I may have to build "hamitron's wall"
[00:39] <hamitron> ;)
[00:39] <hamitron> but that is later ofc
[00:40] <popey> :)
[00:40] <popey> bed time
[00:40] <popey> nn
[00:40] <hamitron> nn drunken popey
[00:42]  * TheOpenSourcerer just noticed some dialogue on here, then decided it too is bedtime. nn.
[00:44] <kyle__> i am just trying to run ubntu from usb only
[00:44] <kyle__> i got further than i did before in that i could boot from the usb, but then hangs? beta 2 worked ok in live setting and even had unity working
[00:56] <hamitron> better get to bed early... so I have the energy to survive a long day of wedding stuff
[00:57] <hamitron> o/
[01:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Michael Wood] Sony KDL-32W4000 xrandr lines - http://www.michaelwood.me.uk/wordpress/2011/04/29/sony-kdl-32w4000-xrandr-lines/
[03:29] <dragonkeeper> :(  how do i turn unity off ?
[03:31] <ball> Install Xubuntu?
[03:33] <dragonkeeper> ahh thats better  ubuntu classic session
[05:15] <knightwise> exit
[05:38] <shauno> grub2 is driving me scatty :(
[05:41] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--I1v8K9zxw
[05:43] <shauno> bingo :)
[05:54] <shauno> seriously starting to think grub-mkimage is a practical joke
[05:56] <shauno> the resulting image isn't capable of doing anything without any modules.  it can't load any modules because it doesn't understand the filesystems (without the relevant modules ..)
[05:56] <shauno> and appears to be incapable of embedding modules.  there's a --memdisk option, but it's refusing to load modules from that either
[06:02] <shauno> hm, well that's why.  (memdisk) is returning no such disk
[06:02] <shauno> I can only assume that memdisk is also a module that it can't freaking load either
[06:03] <shauno> ... /boot/grub/memdisk.mod
[06:03] <shauno> seriously
[06:52] <shauno> this is getting interesting.  it is booting.  if I sit and wait it out, I get the welcome sound on the livecd
[06:52] <shauno> but the grub prompt stays on the screen the whole time
[06:59] <HazRPG> you know, I never noticed how mounted partitions on boot startup showed up as being owned by "root" and group "plugdev" until I just got a "does not have write permissions" error in an application. What the deal with that?
[07:10] <HazRPG> apparently /etc/fstab say: defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46
[07:10] <HazRPG> guessing that's why its not mounting up as me, but is there an advantage of it not booting as me?
[07:11] <shauno> for which filesystem?
[07:11] <HazRPG> /mount/win7
[07:11] <HazRPG> aka my win7 install
[07:11] <HazRPG> same for my storage mount point
[07:11] <shauno> Are you in group plugdev?
[07:11] <HazRPG> /mount/storage
[07:12] <HazRPG> well that's just it, I assumed I was since I can add/delete files as normal
[07:12] <HazRPG> however I have an application in wine that's saying /it/ can't read or write
[07:12] <HazRPG> so I'm wondering if its just wine's permissions, or mine
[07:16] <shauno> Difficult to look atm .. Still parked at a grub prompt :)
[07:23] <shauno> I've an aweful feeling it's trying to use the wrong gpu :/
[07:33] <HazRPG> bah, sod it sleep time
[07:33] <HazRPG> also, being release date yesterday really annoyed me
[07:33] <HazRPG> just updated someone to 10.10... and well, it took FOREVER to update T_T
[07:33] <HazRPG> I did warn them it might be a bad idea to update today
[07:34] <HazRPG> (referring to yesterday)
[07:34] <shauno> Can't figure out what to put in video= which might stop it being stupid :(
[07:37] <shauno> Although so far, it seems to be ignoring that anyway
[07:37] <HazRPG> shauno: is this grub
[07:38] <shauno> Kinda. atm it's radeondrmfb in the kernel
[07:39] <shauno> it keeps removing efi vga in preference if the radeon driver. But because it doesn't handle gpu switching, that's the last output I get
[07:39] <HazRPG> weird
[07:40] <shauno> of course, radeonfb completely ignores the video= line, because it knows better (/facepalm)
[07:49] <HazRPG> \o/
[07:49] <HazRPG> lol
[07:50] <HazRPG> still can't figure out whether it should be a good idea to change what my win7 or storage folder should be mounted as T_T
[07:50] <HazRPG> or if I should just change the owner of the applications folder...
[07:55] <Myrtti> yay, internet stream of the royal weddin
[07:56] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ...
[07:56] <Myrtti> oy
[07:56] <ging> internet is running slow for me today i hope it isnt royal wedding related load
[07:56] <Myrtti> Even inlaws-to-be remembered me... :-X http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5661639862/
[07:56] <Myrtti> cheeky old gits
[07:57] <shauno> Told them they shouldn't have had the stag party in the NOC ...
[07:57] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Sorry, I don't like the concept of hereditary rulers too much :)
[07:57] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: (even though I live in a monarchy..)
[07:57] <Myrtti> anyway, all I'm really interested is Kates dress and how that huge load of money on flowers has been used in the church
[07:57] <HazRPG> bah, I don't see why people are making such a fuss... woo, people get married all the time lol
[07:58] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: exactly. Though most weddings don't cost £50m
[07:58] <Myrtti> I think it's more about women making a fuss
[07:58] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: True... but still, woo wedding? Hurray?
[07:58] <Myrtti> as they always do
[08:00] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Just bought the Jonathan Coulton album from u1ms \o/
[08:02] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Ooo, you might be able to advise me :) - /etc/fstab... should I change my ntfs /mount/storage (used by both win/linux - although I haven't booted into windows for 4 months now \o/) from defaults,nls=utf8,umask=007,gid=46 0 0 to just defaults,nls=utf8?
[08:03] <HazRPG> sorry change it to defaults,nls=utf8 0 0 even.
[08:03] <shauno> That'll just make it root:root instead of root:plugdev
[08:04] <HazRPG> yeah, but /home is mounted in the same fashion... surely if you set to defaults only, you can actually change the owner of points as and when needed
[08:05] <HazRPG> as it stands I can't change the owner of anything
[08:05] <HazRPG> (tried chmod and chown :/)
[08:05] <shauno> Home us different because it's a native fs, so it supports ownerships
[08:06] <shauno> for ntfs, whoever owns the mount, has ownership of everything
[08:06] <HazRPG> ah, so is this a problem with it being ntfs more than it is being mounted incorrectly?
[08:06] <HazRPG> so bit of both then
[08:07] <HazRPG> well considering this system is only used by me, changing it gid to 1000 should be fine (setting it as group = me basically)
[08:07] <HazRPG> right?
[08:08] <HazRPG> any security things I should be paranoid about, if I did that?
[08:08] <shauno> Probably ;)
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> If it's only your system, no :)
[08:08] <shauno> Sure. Any viruses in wine can infect you windows drive ;)
[08:08] <HazRPG> shauno: I grep'ed /etc/passwd to make sure the group was 1000 ;D
[08:09] <HazRPG> shauno: okay, that's definitely a big Con. then
[08:10] <HazRPG> hmm
[08:10] <shauno> so, I burnt the image to disk, to see if the options the cd uses were wildly different from what I'm using for grub-efi
[08:10] <shauno> the answer is, no, I get no video output from the cd either
[08:11] <shauno> so ow I have to go dig up a beta2 iso because the release is a huge regression
[08:11] <HazRPG> in that case... hmm, wondering if it would just make more sense to make a mount point for the application inside /home/<user>/.wine/drive_c/Program\ Files\<application> then?
[08:11] <HazRPG> shauno: we testing natty out?
[08:12] <shauno> HazRPG: no, we're throwing it against the wall in disgust, and trying to see if we can find a debian iso that has the grub-loopback stuff
[08:13] <HazRPG> shauno: in that case, wouldn't it be easier to install grub2 and then go from there?
[08:13] <shauno> I have grub2
[08:14] <shauno> what I don't have, is a kernel with a valid video mode
[08:15] <HazRPG> I'm going on a limb, but I'm guessing you tried  to loopback the iso in grub then
[08:15] <shauno> yes.  it boots, runs along quite happily until the radeon driver decides I was only kidding about setting video=efifb, and then I lose video
[08:16] <HazRPG> interesting
[08:17] <shauno> if I sit staring at a blank screen for long enough, I get the login sound from gnome, so it's even booting into X without figuring out which gpu to use
[08:24] <HazRPG> why do I get the feeling the stuff on: http://wiki.debian.org/MacBookPro is about AFTER you installed it and not how to get it to install
[08:26] <HazRPG> shauno: don't know if this will help, but sounds like what your trying to do but missing a few parameters: http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/fb/efifb.txt
[08:27] <HazRPG> shauno: your typing in video=efifb, seems your missing a colon and something else after it
[08:27] <shauno> what I have works until the radeon driver kicks in :/
[08:28] <dwatkins> HazRPG: installing Ubuntu on a Macbook Pro is easy, it's Windows that has problems installing.
[08:28] <HazRPG> dwatkins: Ubuntu maybe, he's trying to install debian though :P
[08:29] <shauno> heh, not this one apparently :/  ubuntu 10.10 and 11.04 are both unbootable due to my sata bug :/
[08:29] <dwatkins> hmmm, I wasn't aware there would be any difference in the bootloaders
[08:29] <HazRPG> dwatkins: don't think it's the boot loader, I think it's the free ATI graphics driver stuff that's causing the problems
[08:29] <shauno> and apparently unbootable from grub-efi due to $deity knows what
[08:30] <dwatkins> I plan on putting Ubuntu on my MBP7.1, but only when I have a larger hard disk in it.
[08:30] <HazRPG> shauno: oh yeah, forgot your lil fight to get ubuntu running on it too
[08:32] <HazRPG> shauno: still think it might be worth trying to put :i20 or :i17 at the end of efifb
[08:33] <HazRPG> shauno: I forget, what version you rolling with again? MBP 8.2?
[08:33] <shauno> yup
[08:33] <HazRPG> score, what a guess \o/
[08:34] <HazRPG> (I knew it was 8.x)
[08:39] <shauno> Hm. Adding :i17 gives me no output at all
[08:39] <HazRPG> shauno: thought your was a 17"?
[08:39] <HazRPG> 17" = :i20 (don't know why :S?)
[08:39] <shauno> Nope, that's 8,3
[08:39] <HazRPG> ah
[08:41] <HazRPG> my google fu seems to lead me to believe it should just work - the only thing they're still debating over is bluetooth, but patches exist for them, they just haven't been applied to the kernel just yet
[08:43] <HazRPG> shauno: hmmm... do you have a HDMI port or a VGA/DVI port on there? And can you test these ports?
[08:43] <HazRPG> shauno: I have a feeling its just selecting the first one and using that first
[08:44] <shauno> I just need to find a way to tell radeonfb to <snip> and die
[08:46] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Wow, did Jonathan Coulton do the original Portal song too!
[08:46] <HazRPG> ?*
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes, he did.
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> ♫ I'm making a note here: "Huge Success"
[08:47] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Just listening to "Best. Concert. Ever." and it came on and I was like ... wtf? ... lol
[08:50] <HazRPG> shauno: I know its old, and its bug related... but maybe that's the file you need to tinker with? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=433236
[08:50] <lubotu3`> Debian bug 433236 in linux-2.6 "linux-image-2.6.21-2-powerpc: radeonfb broken with Apple Cinema Display connected via DVI" [Important,Fixed]
[08:51] <HazRPG> or am I right in thinking that's what you are tinkering with
[08:51] <HazRPG> (trying to help...)
[08:51] <shauno> Sort of. Except yaboot doesn't exist
[08:53] <HazRPG> shauno: really? This dude (2010) is talking about the same thing, and he set it to radeonfb:off http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/radeon-crashes-radeonfb-system-locked-help-200303531.html
[08:53] <HazRPG> or do something similar in grub's conf?
[08:53] <HazRPG> *shrug*
[08:55] <shauno> yarly. Yaboot is for openfirmware/ppc
[08:56] <HazRPG> ah
[08:56] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:57] <shauno> radeon:off and radeondrmfb:off both make no difference :(
[08:57] <HazRPG> bah
[08:58] <shauno> fb: conflicting fb hw usage radeondrmfb vs EFI VGA - removing generic driver
[08:58] <shauno> That's the last line I get
[09:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings.
[09:02] <dwatkins> greetings fellow biped
[09:05] <hoover> mornin
[09:05]  * TheOpenSourcerer wonders why I have a slight headache today
[09:29]  * gordonjcp wonders why he has no headache today
[09:39] <madfish> MORNING ALL -> TheOpenSourcerer :D
[09:39] <madfish> how's the headache now?
[09:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning - still rather tender.
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have just kicked off the upgrade to my son's PC - just over 1GB of downloads required!
[09:40] <madfish> with a surname like Lord, why aren't you at the wedding?
[09:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> I turned it down
[09:40] <madfish> quite right
[09:41] <HazRPG> shauno: ... why did that work :S?
[09:43] <HazRPG> shauno: I changed it from root:plugdev (umount'ed and then mount'ed it again manually), and it was the root:root, when I ran the application - its having no more issues! This makes no sense to me :S
[09:48] <shauno> Did you change the umask?
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> NO U MASK
[09:49] <AlanBell> Y U NO MASK?
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'm hot enough without one.
[09:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> What do you call the technique that creates those twitter/facebook type badges that slide up and down a web page as you scroll?
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: HazRPG might know. He's a web man
[09:56] <HazRPG> shauno: I haven't changed anything, as far as I'm aware
[09:56] <HazRPG> shauno: I ran "sudo mount /dev/sdc1 /media/win7 -t ntfs" on it
[09:57] <HazRPG> I assumed that would just remount it the same way as what was in fstab (from the way I understood it from the man pages)
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: can you give an example of a page that does it?
[09:57] <shauno> So you did change a lot :)
[09:57] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: badge thing?
[09:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Not off the top of my head.
[09:57] <shauno> That'd maintain defaults but not umask= or gid=
[09:57] <gerbilschool> Omg ubuntu articles do it
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's typically a vertical-text badge on the side of a web page that stays in the same place as you scroll the page up and down.
[09:58] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: oh you mean like the fixed stuff on the screen?
[09:58] <shauno> position:fixed?
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah, kind of.
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> more like static
[09:59] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: I say fixed, but its more they move as the page does so it /looks/ like it isn't moving
[09:59]  * HazRPG rattles brain for what they're called
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> fixed to the viewport, not the page :)
[09:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes. I'm trying to find some tutorial but I don't know what they are called. I tried sliding badges but that was useless
[09:59] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: bingo ;D
[10:00] <HazRPG> badges to me would mean "signature" but are a bit more dynamic then that
[10:00] <HazRPG> I wouldn't call those badges
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd look for "fixed" in the CSS manual :)
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> it won'
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> it won't slide-after-scroll, but _during_ that way
[10:01] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I think he's more after a javascript trick then a css one
[10:01] <HazRPG> but I could be looking at it wrong
[10:02] <HazRPG> I don't know, "floating javascript box" or something maybe?
[10:03] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: does this look about right? http://jqueryfordesigners.com/fixed-floating-elements/
[10:03] <shauno> it's just position:fixed in css
[10:04] <shauno> position:fixed;top:0;right:0;  should stuff something in the top-right corner and keep it there
[10:04] <shauno> fixed is relative to the window, absolute is relative to the document
[10:04] <HazRPG> shauno: that sort of thing requires that you make sure everything else is referenced properly, otherwise you can have some serious problems with setting stuff fixed
[10:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> HazRPG: Thanks, that's along the right lines yes.
[10:05] <HazRPG> e.g. set something fixed, everything else might bump up from where it was previous to the new gap caused
[10:05]  * czajkowski prods TheOpenSourcerer 
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, fixed elements aren't part of flow
[10:05] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: Just thought a jQuery solution would be nicer and easier to maintain :)
[10:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning czajkowski
[10:06] <shauno> javascript gives you that strange effect where things move while the page is scrolling, and catchup
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yes, or they move on after you stop scrolling
[10:06] <HazRPG> shauno: yeah, I thought that was what he was after (twitter/facebook was examples)
[10:07] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: 'ows the head
[10:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> improving slowlt
[10:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> slowly
[10:08] <shauno> http://demo.superdit.com/css/fixed_absolute_position/  that's a good example of the difference
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is the kind of thing. (Mootools is better for this as it will be on Joomla! and mootools is already loaded. http://davidwalsh.name/dw-content/scrolling-sidebar.php
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> I don't like that it scrolls after you scroll
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> instead of just staying in place
[10:10] <shauno> yeah, that's what I meant by catchup.  it always lags behind window events
[10:11] <HazRPG> shauno: ah, in that case you'd have a javascript to change the css after you get to a certain point :)
[10:12] <HazRPG> you'd change it from absolute to fixed
[10:12] <shauno> so why not used fixed in the first place :o)
[10:12] <HazRPG> which is why the tutorial I link to works best if you watch the video
[10:12] <HazRPG> shauno: *points at example of the shopping cart of apple site*
[10:13] <HazRPG> the cart is placed as natural flow on the website, but when you scroll down it gets changed to fixed so that you can always see how much your total is as your going along
[10:15] <HazRPG> *points here: http://jqueryfordesigners.com/video.php?f=fixedfloat.flv *
[10:23] <madfish> sorry, very off topic but a great tweet "Prince Harry has taken his inappropriate fancy dress reputation a step further by coming as Colonel Gaddafi"
[10:24] <shauno> I just don't see why you need to hack something together in javascript when it exists already in the standard
[10:27] <ali1234> it's html
[10:28] <shauno> http://shaun.oneil.me.uk/test/  (and /test/style.css).  fixed scroll. one line of css. zero lag.
[10:28] <ali1234> there is no standard
[10:31] <shauno> I just find it silly that you can do it properly, quicker than the 'web developers' can figure out what js library to use this week
[10:32] <ali1234> your example doesn't work btw
[10:32] <shauno> works in every browser I've got :/
[10:33] <HazRPG> its fixed here too
[10:33] <HazRPG> however, fail dude, your stuck with "Some Lipsum" perma attached to the right hand side
[10:33] <Psychobudgie> madfish, hahahah
[10:33] <shauno> I thought that's what he's actually trying to do?
[10:33] <shauno> or do people actually want the js lag
[10:34] <HazRPG> shauno: you can do js without lag :/
[10:34] <HazRPG> guessing no one watched the video I linked :/
[10:34] <HazRPG> the reason there's lag is because js tries to constantly work it out...
[10:34] <shauno> right.  because the window events are slower than the renderer
[10:35] <ali1234> ha, no
[10:35] <ali1234> html renderers are damn slow
[10:35] <popey> Morning all
[10:35] <HazRPG> if you just get the reference code straight out of the browser, and then assign it to a constant, ... you can then flip it from "absolute" to "fixed"
[10:36] <ali1234> yes
[10:36] <ali1234> btw when  he says in the video it doesn't work in ie6
[10:36] <ali1234> it's only partly true
[10:36] <ali1234> it actually doesn't work in ie 7 or 8 and probably 9 or 10 either
[10:36] <HazRPG> so lets say what you want fixed isn't until say half way on a regular 17" screen... on a widescreen, this won't show at all until they scroll... if you had this fixed all the time... this would never show at all... so this trick is so when you stroll down... and once that panel/whatever hits the top of the browser, its changed to fixed
[10:37] <madfish> morning popey - how's the head?
[10:38] <shauno> I'm apparently completely missing what you're actually trying to do
[10:38] <shauno> because that sounds like some proper twisted 1998 style dhtml trash :)
[10:38] <HazRPG> shauno: not everyone has a 1280x1024 screen like me xD
[10:38] <HazRPG> (or even 2 of them!)
[10:38] <ali1234> shauno: watch the videooooooooooooo
[10:38] <HazRPG> shauno: exactly!
[10:38] <HazRPG> shauno: http://jqueryfordesigners.com/video.php?f=fixedfloat.flv
[10:39] <ali1234> shauno: it uses position:fixed exactly like your demo
[10:39] <HazRPG> yeah but the whole right hand side of the screen is being used for nothing other than "Some Lipsum" on your demo dude lol
[10:40] <jacobw> good morning
[10:40] <HazRPG> shauno: you've used apple store? What happens to the cart as you scroll? Does that lag? (should hope not cos it gets flipped from absolute to fixed)
[10:41] <popey> madfish: not bad, didnt drink much tbh
[10:41] <Pendulum> popey: good party?
[10:41] <popey> Yes, good fun
[10:43] <madfish> popey: the other alans drank for you ;)
[10:43] <popey> heh, yes
[10:44] <HazRPG> shauno: all the js is doing, is checking to see where the current scrollbar is... if the scrollbar is has been moved beyond a set number, then the css gets changed to fixed, however, if the scrollbar is less then a set number you could just have it move with the page as normal in absolute.
[10:44] <jacobw> load balancing betweeen the alans :p
[10:44] <shauno> HazRPG: I don't see anywhere where he asked for that
[10:45] <HazRPG> shauno: value of top
[10:45] <HazRPG> top is the scrollbar number
[10:45] <HazRPG> co-ords of y
[10:45] <ali1234> lol
[10:46] <ali1234> he does a regexp on the string to prevent 'auto' from returning NaN
[10:46] <ali1234> instead of just catching the NaN and converting that to integer zero
[10:46] <HazRPG> ali1234: he does :)
[10:47] <ali1234> web designers
[10:47] <HazRPG> bah I'm a developer not a designer, I hate anything that isn't php
[10:48] <wintellect> HazRPG++
[10:48] <HazRPG> I can do html/css... but when js is involved, I'd avoid it like the plague unless I REALLY must
[10:48]  * wintellect agrees with HazRPG 
[10:49] <HazRPG> plus, I can draw/design for the life of me :/
[10:49] <HazRPG> give me a sheet to work from, and I'm fine
[10:49] <HazRPG> developer != designer, and it really annoys me that people think it's the same thing
[10:49] <jacobw> designers muck everything up :)
[10:50] <HazRPG> (previous job description was web designer... tried to get another job as a php programmer, and got rejected because they weren't looking for a designer despite my previous job had nothing to do with designing at all)
[10:51] <HazRPG> they literally based it on the fact that my official position was "designer"
[10:51] <HazRPG> and I didn't write it on my CV as designer, they actually rang them up and asked... and they said "oh well he did this and that and blah... oh his job title? Web designer..."
[10:52] <HazRPG> I facepalm'ed when I found out T_T
[10:52] <jacobw> argh :(
[10:52] <HazRPG> indeed, was really frustrating
[10:53] <HazRPG> didn't help that it was a "print/design" company I worked for
[10:53] <wintellect> Anyone that does *anything* on a website is called a "web designer"
[10:53] <HazRPG> the reason they hired me was cos they wanted to cash in on web development, not just designing the layouts
[10:53] <HazRPG> wintellect: sadly :/
[10:54] <HazRPG> bah, just realised I typed "I can draw" instead of "I can't"
[10:55] <HazRPG> apparently I can't type either :P
[10:55] <wintellect> HazRPG: are you sure you should be working with computers?  :P
[10:55] <HazRPG> wintellect: sometimes wonder :P
[10:56] <HazRPG> my problem is my mind thinks faster than my hands can type it - I sometimes miss words altogether, that can be fun to try and work out sometimes :P
[10:56] <wintellect> I do that all the time
[10:56] <wintellect> or type ":wq" in notepad in the office
[10:56] <wintellect> or Dreamweaver
[10:56] <HazRPG> xD
[10:57] <HazRPG> I find trying to hit the tab key inside of a browser, doesn't always do the effect you were after xD
[10:57] <wintellect> rofl
[10:58] <HazRPG> "type type type type type tab type type type ... where'd my cursor go!?"
[10:59] <HazRPG> looks like its going to be another all night/dayer
[10:59] <HazRPG> heading to the shop for some supplies, bbl
[11:10] <wintellect> natty upgrades have begun - YAY!
[11:13] <oimon> wintellect: what's been updated?
[11:13] <HazRPG> \o
[11:13] <HazRPG> still a bit sceptical over natty
[11:14] <oimon> i've been beta testing, now waiting for everyone to do the real testing before my prod machines get it!
[11:15] <wintellect> oimon: the whole OS
[11:15] <wintellect> 2hrs 30mins left
[11:16] <HazRPG> wintellect: I'd have selected a different server to grab off - unless that's the normal amount of time it would take you to download a CD
[11:17] <HazRPG> wintellect: I tried to update someone's machine up to 10.10 last night/this morning... and it took forever, presumably because everyone's been updating their machines
[11:20] <popey> get it from the german mirror
[11:20] <popey> thats much quicker
[11:21] <popey> http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/
[11:23] <DJones> I've just started a machine here and it took 12 minutes to download the update using one of the uk servers but not the default one
[11:25] <HazRPG> DJones: that's my point :) - don't use the default, cos there will be LOTS of people using the default
[11:25] <oimon> germans don't like natty?
[11:25] <HazRPG> oimon: germans probably have faster overall internets ;D
[11:26] <DJones> HazRPG: Very true, most people wouldn't think to change from the default servers (casual users might not even realise you change thinking its like windows & uses a central point)
[11:27] <ali1234> windows doesn't use a central point
[11:28] <shauno> I'd assume they use akamai, if they've got any sense
[11:29] <popey> i suspect the UK server is flooded because AIUI it's the default for all countries that don't have their own default server
[11:29] <popey> plus the UK server isn't just one server
[11:30] <popey> so USA points to the UK server I think
[11:30] <popey> oo, usa has lots of servers now
[11:30] <popey> still all in the uk DC by the look of it
[11:37] <jacobw> i'm downloading from the university of kent mirror at ~300KB/s
[11:39] <HazRPG> jacobw: I just rely on the auto ping ratio - I run the test 3 times and whichever came up on top out of those 3 times... I select and pick that one
[11:40] <HazRPG> auto select* even
[11:40] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:40] <jacobw> i'd forgotten about auto select, how do you do it again/
[11:40] <jacobw> hi brobostigon, how do?
[11:41] <brobostigon> goodmorning jacobw ad HazRPG :)
[11:41] <brobostigon> jacobw: not so, hot, not feeling very well.
[11:41] <HazRPG> brobostigon: morning dude :)
[11:41] <brobostigon> :)
[11:43] <HazRPG> jacobw: system -> admin -> update manager -> settings (button) -> Ubuntu Software (tab), on the "Download from:" section pick "other" then pick "Select Best Server" button
[11:43] <HazRPG> personally I think that's too many clicks for that, and it would be better coded to automatically do it... but meh lol
[11:44] <wintellect> 52mins left of upgrade...
[11:44] <popey> wintellect: has it started upgrading or is it just downloading?
[11:57] <phonex01> Hello , Salam Alykom people
[11:58] <wintellect> popey: upgrading. 30mins left now
[11:58] <jacobw> HazRPG: i thought you could do it with apt?
[11:58] <jacobw> HazRPG: something like apt-autoselect-mirror
[11:59] <jacobw> i don't trust gui package management :|
[11:59] <jacobw> *still
[12:00] <popey> loon
[12:00] <popey> you know the gui uses dpkg/apt underneath?
[12:03] <jacobw> yes :(
[12:26] <ali1234> is david gerard on slashdot the real david gerard or just a troll pretending to be him?
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> yes
[12:27] <DJones> Thats not bad, from starting to download & upgrade to complete & using Natty, just over 1 hour
[12:28] <brobostigon> http://static.arstechnica.com/pbreview/twitter.jpg theplaybooks twitter client, :)
[12:28] <popey> ali1234: where?
[12:29]  * brobostigon points popey atthe above picturelink.
[12:29] <ali1234> popey: http://slashdot.org/~David+Gerard
[12:29] <ali1234> low 5 digit UID says it's probably him
[12:30] <popey> yeah
[12:30] <popey> almost certainly
[12:30] <wintellect> cleaning up...
[12:32] <popey> haha brobostigon
[12:33] <brobostigon> :)
[12:34] <wintellect> Restarting... brb, I hope
[12:43] <oimon> "Ars reviews RIM's PlayBook" -how many double-entendres can you get in a sentence?
[12:46] <richard> richard
[12:47] <Guest27972> hi do you have a bin as i need to paste something
[12:48] <brobostigon> !pastebin
[12:48] <lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[12:48] <brobostigon> !info pastebinit
[12:48] <lubotu3`> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1-2 (maverick), package size 22 kB, installed size 404 kB
[12:50] <brobostigon> !info pastebinit natty
[12:50] <lubotu3`> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2-2 (natty), package size 30 kB, installed size 480 kB
[12:52] <Guest27972> Ok i ran the upgrade from 10.10 and this is came up, and this is happening since yesterday the release has been released  http://paste.ubuntu.com/600693/
[12:54] <Guest27972> and data hop is http://www.datahop.net/  it seem that they have a problem with there server
[12:55] <wintellect> back
[12:55] <wintellect> seems my setup wont run Unity :(
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> wintellect: Matrox graphics? :)
[12:56] <wintellect> I've enabled the experimental 3D driver, but still nothing
[12:56] <wintellect> MartijnVdS: No, nVidia
[12:57] <wintellect> Why does the nvidia binary blob not show up in the list of drivers?!
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> too old?
[13:00] <popey> which card wintellect ?
[13:00] <Guest27972> Anyone know why this is happening when i do the upgrade  http://paste.ubuntu.com/600693/
[13:01] <popey> Guest27972: go to software sources and choose a different mirror?
[13:01] <Guest27972> ok let me try
[13:07] <wintellect> popey: GeForce4 MX 440 AGP
[13:08] <wintellect> "Proprietary drivers for devices (restricted)" is enabled in Software Sources in the Ubuntu Software Centre
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DemystifyingUnityGraphicsHardwareRequirements
[13:09] <wintellect> MartijnVdS: looking
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> wintellect: run /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
[13:10] <wintellect> MartijnVdS: Unity supported:          no
[13:10] <wintellect> :'(
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> wintellect: it should also tell you why
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> wintellect: can you pastebin the output?
[13:10] <wintellect> sure...
[13:11] <wintellect> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/CvrEMz4a
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> wintellect: seems like your GPU doesn't support OpenGL 1.4 features required by unity
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> wintellect: time for a new graphics card ;)
[13:13]  * wintellect cries like a baby
[13:13] <shauno> I used to have a 440mx.  nifty card for the price, but it's showing it's age :(
[13:13] <Guest27972> the http://ubuntu.dahop.net/ubuntu mirror has a problem so do not use it to run your upgrade
[13:13] <wintellect> shauno: so it seems
[13:13] <shauno> I think that was 2003, 2004?
[13:14] <shauno> nice lil workhorse tho.  mine would do dual-head and tv-out at the same time.  X didn't like that much :)
[13:14] <popey> Guest27972: have you chosen a different mirror?
[13:15] <ali1234> i still use a 440MX in mythtv
[13:15] <ali1234> it uses about 5 watts where as anything modern uses about 50 watts
[13:15] <ali1234> for no noticable improvement i might add
[13:17] <wintellect> lunchtime, bbs
[13:18] <wintellect> thanks for the help MartijnVdS
[13:20] <richard_> no matter what mirror i choose when i launch the upgrade it say that it cannot download the release
[13:22] <richard_> so i am trying to upgrade from a usb, hoping it will do the upgrade
[13:46] <zleap> hello
[13:46] <zleap> just loaded up 11.04 and the interface looks more like gnome than unit, as in no side bar
[13:48] <zleap> hi
[13:51] <moreati>  zleap did you see a message box that said Ubuntu is falling back to 'Classic' or 'Failsafe'?
[14:12] <ali1234> is there a metabug for all programs that look bad with a forced resize gripper?
[14:45] <cbx333> hey all
[14:45] <cbx333> can't believe how slow the repos are still
[14:45] <cbx333> :)
[14:58] <cbx333> 50bK/s
[14:59] <cbx333> 50kB/s - sorry
[15:05] <DJones> cbx333: Have you tried changing servers? The main one was heavily overloaded, but picking a different one this morning did a full update in an hour
[15:05] <cbx333> oooh
[15:05] <cbx333> I was using gb
[15:05] <cbx333> got any better ideas?
[15:06] <DJones> I just used one of the gb/uk mirrors, can't remember which one specifically
[15:06] <cbx333> ok
[15:06] <brobostigon> cbx333: i am on german one right now, that was pretty good earlier.
[15:07] <cbx333> ahh
[15:07] <cbx333> ok cool
[15:07] <cbx333> funny i just had one file go at 400K
[15:07] <cbx333> was a good few Mb
[15:07] <cbx333> then the new was dead slow again
[15:07] <cbx333> :)
[15:07] <cbx333> I will think of moving in a second
[15:07] <DJones> Just loI think I may have used mirror.ox.ac.uk
[15:07] <cbx333> thanks guys
[15:07] <cbx333> bbiab
[15:12] <brobostigon> DJones: i shall to try that repo.
[15:12] <brobostigon> have to*
[15:23] <gordonjcp> have the servers cooled down yet?
[15:24] <Guest76976> mine have in the uk
[15:24] <gordonjcp> righto
[15:24] <gordonjcp> here goes, rebooting into Ubuntu
[15:25] <popey> gordonjcp: switch to the german mirror before you do
[15:25] <popey> before you upgrade that is
[15:26] <brobostigon> is the german mirror special? i happen to use it, it is ipv6enabled.
[15:28] <gordonjcp> popey: okay, why's that?
[15:28] <popey> faster
[15:28] <popey> the uk ones is swamped
[15:28] <popey> i use de.archive.ubuntu.com at the moment
[15:28] <brobostigon> i have used it for a while.
[15:29] <gordonjcp> really, I should wipe this and do a clean install
[15:30] <gordonjcp> hm, only 36M to get?
[15:31] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: change the source entries with software sources app, it will change it for you, ust tell it which youwant to use.
[15:31] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: I can't find the software sources app
[15:32] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: I can't really find much in Ubuntu these days
[15:32] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: do you know how to chnage sources.list manually, and "sudo apt-get update" ?
[15:32] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: yeah, that's what I'm doing
[15:32] <brobostigon> :)
[15:32] <gordonjcp> I'm never going to use 11.04 as a desktop
[15:32] <moreati> gordonjcp: Edit -> Software Sources in Ubuntu Software Centre
[15:32] <gordonjcp> but I may have to put up with it on servers
[15:33] <gordonjcp> moreati: I can't really find the Ubuntu Software Centre either
[15:33] <gordonjcp> I'll switch out of Unity once this update finishes
[15:35] <moreati> gordonjcp: press the Windows key (left od Space), type 'Software Centre' that should find it
[15:35] <gordonjcp> tbh I can't really get much of an idea how the finished version looks since I've heavily modified everything in the beta release
[15:35] <gordonjcp> moreati: I don't have a Windows key
[15:36] <moreati> gordonjcp: that is a _very_ old keyboard (or Mac, in which case it's the Cmd key)
[15:36] <gordonjcp> moreati: in any case, I just edited /etc/apt/sources.list and updated that way
[15:36] <gordonjcp> moreati: IBM Model M keyboard
[15:36] <gordonjcp> ugh
[15:36] <gordonjcp> it's enabled compiz again
[15:37] <ali1234> finished version is virtually identical to beta
[15:37] <ali1234> beta 2 that is
[15:37] <ali1234> in fact i haven't seen any updates since installing that
[15:38] <gordonjcp> brb, reboot
[15:38] <gordonjcp> right, that's better
[15:55] <cbx333> hey popey
[15:56] <cbx333> which german mirror are you guys using?
[15:56] <popey> 15:28:33 < popey> i use de.archive.ubuntu.com at the moment
[15:57] <cbx333> hmmm
[15:57]  * cbx333 is upgrading a 10.04 box
[15:57] <cbx333> do i gotta go to 10.10 first?
[15:57] <Laney> deb http://chicken.local:3142/ubuntu natty main universe is holding up well :-)
[15:57] <popey> you can install over the top
[15:57] <popey> heh Laney
[15:57] <cbx333> that server isn't in my list of mirrors
[15:57] <popey> indeed, ubuntuserver.local is doing well here
[15:57] <popey> cbx333: observe the smiley
[15:58] <Laney> it's an apt cache i'm running on my other machine
[15:59] <cbx333> popey, i hate to sound late - can i got to 11.04 from the "update manager"?
[15:59] <Laney> update-manager cried about using it though :'(
[15:59] <popey> not from 10.04, no
[15:59] <cbx333> ahh
[16:00] <popey> you would need to go 10.04 -> 10.10 if using update manager
[16:00] <cbx333> ok
[16:00] <cbx333> do you have the commands handy to safely  go straight to 11.04 ?
[16:00] <cbx333> from cli?
[16:00] <popey> i would not advocate doing that
[16:00] <cbx333> ok
[16:00] <cbx333> you suggest downloading iso and installing over the top did you say?
[16:01] <cbx333> i wasn't clear what your suggested method was
[16:01] <exobuzz> if you are confident with ubuntu/debian you can adjust  your apt sources to natty and dist-upgrade, but you need to be comfortable in case anything doesnt go smoothly
[16:02]  * cbx333 is semi-comfortable :)
[16:02] <cbx333> any one else here gone down that route before?
[16:02] <cbx333> this is a fairly fresh box
[16:02] <exobuzz> if you have a backup, then you can risk it anyway, and if it goes tits up, do a reinstall and restore your personal stuff from the backup
[16:03] <cbx333> well it's not gonna screw the fs is it
[16:03] <exobuzz> i rarely skip a version, as im always a bit bleeding edge. when i went from linux mint to ubuntu, i did a reinstall
[16:03] <cbx333> i could just boot a live cd to pull the data out
[16:03] <brobostigon> i upgraded directly from debian stable, through to unstable/sid once.
[16:03] <popey> whats the hurry cbx333 ?
[16:03] <exobuzz> always have backups
[16:03]  * cbx333 has a day off today popey :)
[16:03] <popey> whilst you're talking you could be upgrading to 10.10
[16:03]  * cbx333 clicks the button
[16:03] <cbx333> :p
[16:04] <cbx333> need to change mirror first - it's not even downloading the release notes now
[16:04] <cbx333> :)
[16:04] <exobuzz> i had better update the joggler natty image
[16:06] <exobuzz> ot: interesting link on the bbc about 8 bit computing (building your own 8 bit puter) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13201254
[16:07] <exobuzz> s/link/article and video/
[16:16] <cbx333> wow
[16:16] <cbx333> de servers are fast
[16:16] <brobostigon> :)
[16:52] <Neoti> Any reported problems in upgrading to 11.04 via update manager then ? im about to do it ?
[16:53] <cbx333> I'll be doing it in about 40 minutes
[16:53] <cbx333> when the 10.04 to 10.10
[16:53] <cbx333> finished
[16:53] <cbx333> and i stop pressing the enter button too early
[16:53] <Neoti> Pre mature enter button!! lol
[16:59] <Darael> Neoti: It took me nearly 24 hours, but unless you have a btrfs root partition (which is not the default) that shouln't affect you.
[17:00] <Neoti> lol
[17:01] <Darael> Neoti: Other than abysmal speed of dpkg on btrfs (a known issue from Maverick) I've had no issues at all.  Which is good.  Obviously.
[17:01] <Neoti> coolio... well i will update it soon .....
[17:02] <Neoti> im not a fan of unity tho.... makes it look like an apple mac ... and i dont like Apple ....
[17:03] <cbx333> quick poll
[17:03] <cbx333> are most people using unity here or gnome 3?
[17:03] <brobostigon> Neoti: have you tried gnome3 yet?
[17:03] <brobostigon> cbx333: gome3.
[17:03] <brobostigon> cbx333: gnome3.
[17:04] <Neoti> !gnome3
[17:04] <lubotu3`> Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and safe downgrading is not possible.
[17:04] <cbx333> oh
[17:04] <cbx333> :(
[17:04]  * cbx333 thinks I will stick with maverick for a while then
[17:04] <cbx333> first time I've ever done that
[17:05] <jacobw> I heard about a utility to switch between monitor configuration X and monitor configuration Y in X(.org) with a single click, does anyone know what it's called? I heard about it either on the Ubuntu UK podcast or on the Linux Outlaws podcast..
[17:05] <brobostigon> cbx333: i moved back to ubuntu from debian sid, as the gnome3 packages in that ppa, where more uptodate than those ineither debian unstable and experimental.
[17:08] <cbx333> it  is a shame...i usually look forward to an upgrade
[17:08] <cbx333> this time i'm more than a little scared
[17:09] <brobostigon> theupgrade went fine here, i just had to replaceunity after a few days, with gnome-shell, which i had been using for months before that point, toherwise i am very happy.
[17:09] <cbx333> right
[17:09] <brobostigon> cbx333: andi upgraded on the last alpha.
[17:13] <cbx333> so is ubuntu likely to get gnome 3 ever?
[17:15] <moreati> cbx333: not officially, unless Unity and Gnome 3 eventually merge (50:50 odds IMO)
[17:15] <cbx333> :(
[17:15] <jacobw> X keeps crashing on my dual monitor set up, it appears to happen while Firefox is rendering a page :s
[17:15] <cbx333> in 11.04?
[17:16] <jacobw> I don't think they'll merge anytime soon.
[17:21] <brobostigon> bye,e everyone, have a good evening.
[17:22] <Laney> i'm sure it will get some kind of gnome 3
[17:24] <Laney> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3
[17:24] <Neoti> erm.... empathy can not resolve messenger.hotmail.com ... i have checked on another server in a datacenter and it too can not resolve messenger.hotmail.com ....
[17:24] <Neoti> so i can not use MSN chat at the moment... any idea
[17:26] <DJones> Neoti: Try pidgin, I've got MSN chat working on that with natty
[17:26] <Neoti> this is in 10.10 ... it worked fine up untill 3 days ago ...
[17:26] <Neoti> and the problem is that messenger.hotmail.com can not be found ...
[17:27] <DJones> Might be worth trying another client just to make sure though
[17:27] <Neoti> i just looged in to msn web version and works fine...
[17:27] <ukstevef> switch your DNS to opendns.com works fine for me
[17:29] <Neoti> i did use to use opendns... i might have to swap back to them ....
[17:29] <ukstevef> i use opendns at home and I love the filtering and phish protection
[17:36] <Neoti> right so i changed to open DNS... and refreshed my IP etc and did a MTR for messenger and no resolves ...so i restarted the computer and it now resolves ... STRANGO!!!! VERY STRANGE!!!!!!!
[18:04] <hamitron> evening
[18:04] <hamitron> :)
[18:10] <popey> hullo
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> \o
[18:12] <penguin42> someone throw some more coal on the mirror
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: mirrors don't work if you put coal on them...
[18:14] <penguin42> they don't?!
[18:14] <penguin42> oh god, no wonder this download is taking so long - libqt4-dbg is 103MB
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> yay c++
[18:18] <exobuzz> so natty users, who's on the classic desktop and who's on unity?
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> xfce, because both suck :)
[18:18] <popey> I'm on 10.04 :)
[18:18] <popey> also, I am on Unity 2d on one machine
[18:20] <hamitron> 10.04 lazyness ftw :)
[18:21] <Laney> xmonad + metacity :-)
[18:23] <exobuzz> heh
[18:29] <DJones> exobuzz: Unity here
[18:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> My son's PC is not playing nicely after doing the upgrade. Can log in on any of 4 user accounts, the desktop wallpaper loads but no menus, launcher, nothing... Not a happy bunny. I tried emptying my home folder completely. Still borked.
[18:40] <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, with classic session too?
[18:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> I do not get offered a choice.
[18:41] <ali1234> i'm using unity for 1 month for a test
[18:41] <ali1234> been on it for a week now
[18:41] <ali1234> so far i can't wait to switch to classic
[18:41] <hamitron> ali1234: how you finding it?
[18:41] <hamitron> :/
[18:42] <ali1234> hamitron: it's awful in every way
[18:42] <ali1234> extremely buggy
[18:42] <ali1234> and just plain bad to use
[18:43] <ali1234> i wouldn't mind the bugs if the design behind it was an improvement over classic
[18:43] <hamitron> how is memory use?
[18:43] <ali1234> pretty terrible
[18:44] <ali1234> no worse than classic gnome though
[18:44] <ali1234> firefox 4 uses more ram than 3 did
[18:44] <hamitron> I was hoping it may be better
[18:44] <hamitron> :D
[18:44] <hamitron> seriously?
[18:44] <hamitron> :-o
[18:44] <ali1234> yes seriously
[18:45] <hamitron> I've only used ff4 on windows
[18:45] <ali1234> i've only got 4 tabs open and its using 400mb/1gig virtual
[18:45] <hamitron> not for heavy use
[18:45] <ali1234> ff3 would use that much ram when i had 6 windows open with 10 tabs each
[18:45] <hamitron> omg
[18:45] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: the choice is at the logon screen
[18:45] <ali1234> unfortunately opening more than one of any window is impractical on unity
[18:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: It isn't there on my son's PC.
[18:45] <popey> what isnt?
[18:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> The choice of UI
[18:46] <DJones> I'm finding the opposite, very good to use, no bugs, memory use quite low with 6 apps running, one of which is devede converting a video file
[18:46] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[18:46] <popey> that fixes _everything_ :D
[18:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[18:46] <popey> serious suggestion :)
[18:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> I may have another attack at it tomorrow.
[18:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Can't be arsed right now.
[18:47] <popey> bah
[18:47] <popey> its one line
[18:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> His PC is turned off and in another part of the house.
[18:47] <hamitron> ff4 on windows 7 with 4 tabs is using 145Mb memory here
[18:48] <Psychobudgie> ff4 is currently using 225mb with 2 tabs open here
[18:49] <Psychobudgie> I don't think it shows anything other than the two sites I have open are hitting ff with more crap than the 4 you have open
[18:50] <hamitron> that could be the case
[18:51] <hamitron> just opened www.yahoo.com www.msn.com www.linux.com and www.ubuntu.com
[18:51] <ali1234> i closed 3 of the tabs
[18:51] <ali1234> now i only have google home page open
[18:51] <ali1234> still using 324mb
[18:51] <ali1234> but falling slowly
[18:52] <hamitron> could both try www.google.com on a fresh start?
[18:52] <hamitron> ;)
[18:52] <Psychobudgie> firefox will have stuff cached in memory
[18:52] <Psychobudgie> best test is a restart
[18:52] <ali1234> 669mb virt, 147mb res
[18:53] <hamitron> 50.6Mb used on fresh start with google.com
[18:53] <ali1234> slowly rising
[18:53] <ali1234> i've only got google open, nothing else
[18:53] <hamitron> www.google.com?
[18:53] <Psychobudgie> you using any addons or plugins
[18:53] <ali1234> www.google.co.uk
[18:54] <hamitron> 51Mb on that
[18:55] <ali1234> ha
[18:55] <ali1234> i disabled adblock plus now firefox uses 81mb
[18:55] <ali1234> 89mb
[18:56] <Psychobudgie> heheh
[18:56] <hamitron> mine is just vanilla
[18:56] <hamitron> so not ff's fault
[18:56] <hamitron> :)
[18:56] <Psychobudgie> add any other plugins or addons that load at start up
[18:56] <Psychobudgie> there is the disparity
[18:56] <ali1234> i don't use any others
[18:57] <Psychobudgie> flash?
[18:57] <Psychobudgie> they'll be loaded
[18:57] <ali1234> flash is a plugin not an extension
[18:57] <ali1234> it runs in a separate process
[18:57] <ali1234> and they don't load until you visit a page that uses them
[18:57] <Psychobudgie> oh, and themes
[18:58] <hamitron> do people actually use non-default themes? ;)
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: you'd be surprised at what people do with their machines :|
[18:58] <ali1234> not in firefox
[18:59] <Psychobudgie> global menu bar integration will be running if you use unity
[18:59] <hamitron> MartijnVdS: I guess so :) the OS and apps I like to be just "there"
[18:59] <Psychobudgie> as will ubuntu firefox modifications
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: People look at me weird when I say I have "only" 10 apps installed on my phone (and most of those are upgrades of built-in apps)
[19:00] <Psychobudgie> the unity addon probably uses about a gb ;)
[19:01] <hamitron> on the plus side, I never do a full ubuntu install anyway \o/
[19:01] <hamitron> or ubuntu-desktop should I say
[19:01] <hamitron> ;/
[19:02] <Venko> Thanks to those seeding the new Ubuntu iso. 2MB/s download :D
[19:02] <hamitron> :-o
[19:03] <hamitron> I am really finding the lack of games on linux depressing now :/
[19:04] <Psychobudgie> buy a console
[19:04] <hamitron> what console?
[19:04] <hamitron> :/
[19:04] <ali1234> wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
[19:04] <hamitron> wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii is for babys
[19:04] <Psychobudgie> nooooooooooo
[19:04] <hamitron> xbox is for MS fanbois
[19:04] <Psychobudgie> I have a PS3 and an 360 here
[19:05] <hamitron> PS3 is for Emo Linux Users
[19:05] <Psychobudgie> though the 360 doesn't get a lot of love these days
[19:05] <Venko> PS3 is for CC thieves
[19:05] <hamitron> Venko: and victoms ;)
[19:05] <popey> buy a dreamcast
[19:05] <Venko> Sony products in general are for wanabe victims though
[19:06] <hamitron> don't dreamcast disks spin the "wrong" way?
[19:06] <ali1234> no lol
[19:06] <popey> oh dear not that classic
[19:06] <popey> people said that about the wii too
[19:06] <Psychobudgie> lol
[19:06] <ali1234> and gamecube
[19:06] <popey> sorry, yes gamecube
[19:06] <hamitron> tbh, I have not liked nintendo consoles since the SNES
[19:07] <ali1234> lolwat
[19:07] <ahayzen> Hi upgrading from 10.10 to 11.04 via LiveCD .. all going well..but now it has stopped at 'Restoring Previously Installed Packages' ... there is no activity on the HDD or CD ..but the network like does seem to be active .. is this an issue or do i just have to wait???
[19:07] <ali1234> snes was clearly amazing
[19:07] <hamitron> I just haven't, dunno why
[19:07] <ali1234> megadrive sucked
[19:07] <popey> ahayzen: yes, wait
[19:07] <ahayzen> how long?
[19:07] <popey> depends how many packages need rebuilding
[19:07] <ahayzen> its been like 1/2 an hour :'(
[19:07] <popey> :(
[19:07] <ahayzen> tht could be loads!
[19:08] <Psychobudgie> ahayzen, on the window on screen click on the bottom of the window where the message is and it should expand to show a terminal window
[19:08] <ahayzen> so is it updating all the packages to the natty ones
[19:08] <Psychobudgie> might tell you a bit more
[19:08] <popey> ahayzen: not quite
[19:08] <DJones> popey: Is that because its downloading any extra packages that have been installed that weren't on the cd
[19:08] <popey> it takes old packages and rebuilds them
[19:08] <popey> kinda DJones
[19:08] <popey> it makes debs out of stuff it cant find in the repo
[19:09] <ahayzen> yh it says ...stuff from kernel about DVI unplug ... and 'Unbalanced action groups, expect badness' ....
[19:09] <popey> and reinstalls them after the base install
[19:09] <Psychobudgie> ahayzen, if you asked it to download anything it needed be prepared for a wait as the repos are getting battered. Took mine 2 hours to grab everything last night
[19:09] <ahayzen> seems this came up after Chrooting into /target/..
[19:10] <ahayzen> WARNING:root:can't add ant (and about 20 others)...
[19:10]  * popey goes to put kids in bath
[19:10] <ahayzen> i didn't tick the box saying download updates..
[19:11] <popey> open a terminal and run top ?
[19:11] <popey> see what it's doing
[19:11] <Psychobudgie> ahayzen, did you have any unofficial sources in your repos before starting the upgrade?
[19:12] <ahayzen> hmmm .. will i have to go Ctrl+Alt+F1 because i just click 'install' rather than try first.. so no app menu..
[19:12] <ahayzen> i had loads of PPAs
[19:12] <ahayzen> and like Oracle VB
[19:14] <ahayzen> i think the servers are just overloaded at the moment? when i tried last night i was getting around 50KB/s download...so i'll wait and see
[19:15] <Venko> I don't suppose anyone knows of any guides to comp sci dissertation writing? I know what I want to write and such but I'm endlessly confused about structure and what form it should be in >.<
[19:16] <hamitron> make it flow with the work you've done
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> Venko: ask an English Literature major :P
[19:17] <ahayzen> ok ... i'm running top..
[19:18] <Venko> Everyone is talking about word counts and I have pretty much nothing typed out.
[19:18] <ahayzen> http and ubiquity are at the top most of the time..
[19:18] <hamitron> my last report was more like a book, because it had testing and seperate sections :/ not like a lot of the reports you read
[19:18] <Venko> I guess I should just start spawning massive walls of text and then think about it again once I have 15k words to look at
[19:19] <hamitron> walls of text are bad
[19:19] <hamitron> pictures = better
[19:19] <hamitron> :)
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> also, paragraphs
[19:20] <Psychobudgie> ahayzen, The last time I had issues with ubuntu upgrades was when I had lots of unofficial sources in my repos. I removed them and the upgrade wizzed through
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> use them :)
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> also, use LaTeX for extra points
[19:24] <Venko> When I'm writing out technology rationale and covering the aims/objectives should I write them in past tense or write them in relation to the finished project? I'm currently going along the lines of building upon stuff. So e.g. objective Y: So X because Y thus Q+T implements X. Then covering Q+T
[19:25] <Venko> I hope that the viva's worth a considerable amount of the marks. I trust I'll do better in that.
[19:26] <cbx333> hey all
[19:26] <cbx333> where did handbrake go ?
[19:29] <czajkowski> Daviey: ping
[19:42] <gord> cbx333, it was never in the repos
[19:45] <gord> heh cool, if you load up the iso in windows it has a usbcreator.exe on it. man ubuntu rocks
[19:53] <cbx333> man unity blows
[19:53] <cbx333> why does that sodding docker only come out on some occasions
[19:53] <Laney> what does the little blue triangle in the top left mean?
[19:53] <penguin42> anyone know what the wait for ppa's to start at the moment is?
[19:54] <Laney> ah, something demanding attention
[19:56] <KrisDouglas> Well Unity didn't last very long :(
[19:57] <Psychobudgie> you should give it more time
[19:57] <Psychobudgie> it'll grow on you
[19:57] <Psychobudgie> like a cyst
[19:57] <KrisDouglas> HAHA
[19:57] <Psychobudgie> :P
[19:57] <KrisDouglas> Well, I would love to
[19:57] <KrisDouglas> But I use this PC for work, and it really got in my way
[19:58] <KrisDouglas> esp. the fact you had to search for most of your programs, it just didn't feel user friendly.
[19:58] <KrisDouglas> it is utterly useless on multimonitor too
[19:58] <Psychobudgie> it isn't meant to be, it's shuttleworth friendly and that is all that matters
[19:59] <KrisDouglas> They have made good decisions in the past, but this one is most certainly not the best. Unity has been released well before it's due I think
[20:00] <KrisDouglas> It feels like it has been rushed
[20:00] <Psychobudgie> nothing wrong with unity, it's just not a desktop shell
[20:00] <Psychobudgie> it's a notebook shell
[20:00] <Psychobudgie> where space is premium
[20:00] <penguin42> Psychobudgie: Not sure, I can see the thoughts on bringing that more together - I just wish it was a bit more modular
[20:00] <knightwise> evening
[20:00] <KrisDouglas> Yeah, actually i have to agree
[20:01] <KrisDouglas> it almost wastes my 2 22" monitors
[20:01] <KrisDouglas> evening knightwise
[20:01] <penguin42> KrisDouglas: On multihead how do the menus work now ?
[20:01] <Psychobudgie> It's like it's taunting my 21" display
[20:01] <KrisDouglas> It just sits on the left hand side of my right hand screen
[20:01] <KrisDouglas> its a pain in the arse
[20:01] <KrisDouglas> they have a panel at the top of each screen though
[20:02] <penguin42> KrisDouglas: Nod, it would make sense for it to appear on the panel on each screen
[20:02] <Psychobudgie> but not a panel as we know it
[20:02] <KrisDouglas> but the hover over area where it hides the title and replaces it with the menu is awful, really awful.
[20:02] <Psychobudgie> yup
[20:02] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I didn't find Unity particularly user-friendly either
[20:02] <Psychobudgie> I absolutely despise that
[20:02] <Psychobudgie> I mean I really really hate it
[20:03] <knightwise> i have a script i made to pull the most recent podcasts from my downloaded podcasts
[20:03] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, I can imagine it's the nuts on a netbook.
[20:03] <knightwise> i have it RSYNC them to a folder
[20:03] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I needed to remove the menu bar at the top of the screen, the utterly nauseating drop shadows and the windo icons on the wrong side
[20:03] <Psychobudgie> It's like someone looked at amiga os 15 years ago and tried to redo the menus from memory
[20:03] <Psychobudgie> it's awful
[20:03] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: can't see it being any good on a netbook
[20:03] <knightwise> but when i let it run , it deletes all the files it copied over .. but three ... http://pastebin.com/4SNvHkVF
[20:03] <knightwise> any thoughts ?
[20:03] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: it's crap at low resolutions
[20:04] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: at 1680x1050 it's just barely usable but it really needs more
[20:04] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, oh.
[20:04] <KrisDouglas> the icons are way too big on high-res monitors though
[20:04] <gordonjcp> also I don't like the way they've removed the taskbar and replaced it with a strip of anonymous little squares
[20:04] <KrisDouglas> I know, makes me think of Windows 7
[20:05] <gord> time to trust in the ubuntu installer not to wipe my windows drive
[20:05] <KrisDouglas> and I run countless RDP sessions, and I can't tell what session is which.
[20:05] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: so, I've got no idea what square is for what
[20:05] <KrisDouglas> gord, the installer is really good. Never had a problem with it installing next to another machine.
[20:05] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, yeah, same problem here.
[20:05] <gordonjcp> to identify the apps, I need to run the mouse pointer slowly down the strip and see what tooltip pops up
[20:06] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I have a dyslexia-like thing that absolutely knackers me for semiotics
[20:06] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, Windows 7 actually does that better in some respects.
[20:06] <gord> KrisDouglas, it is, but i have never just let it do its thing before
[20:06] <KrisDouglas> gord, good luck then, we'll see :)
[20:06] <popey> KrisDouglas: i use it on multi monitor
[20:06] <KrisDouglas> popey, what do you think of it?
[20:07] <KrisDouglas> I saw some of your messages on the uk list
[20:07] <popey> works fine for me
[20:07] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I've never used Windows 7
[20:07] <knightwise> i wonder if i could pull off a dist upgrade on the macbook air
[20:07] <knightwise> perhaps its better i wait a while
[20:07] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I can't really tell which icon is which, although firefox is easy because it's mostly orange
[20:07] <gord> there are some multi-monitor stuff we need to get better at, but right now it works really well i think
[20:07] <gordonjcp> the Alt-F2 thing is broken
[20:08] <gord> alt+f2 is awesome :P
[20:08] <gordonjcp> gord: I can't get it to work
[20:08] <gordonjcp> gord: it works if I type r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-o-o-o-w-l-y
[20:09] <gordonjcp> and let it catch up for a few seconds at the end, then it will nearly always guess what I typed in
[20:09] <KrisDouglas> popey, do you ever feel like when you press the menu button that brings up the search that it gets in your way?
[20:10] <gord> hehe, the installer might as well just be "USE UBUNTU ONE ALLREADY!!!"
[20:10] <gordonjcp> I want Alt-F2 to work the way it does in Gnome
[20:10] <KrisDouglas> There seems to be a few too many clicks to get to where the app I am after is
[20:10] <KrisDouglas> Or I type it, which when it's got an obscure name is a pain
[20:10] <gordonjcp> I really, really wish I wasn't stuck with Ubuntu
[20:10] <demlasjr> hello guys. I have some problems connecting to my wireless network. Is there any problem connecting to WPA, WPA2 or WEB ?
[20:10] <demlasjr> WEP*
[20:10] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, why are you stuck with it?
[20:11] <gord> shouldn't be, i just got natty to connect to WPA2 just a minute ago
[20:11] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: because I need to help some people that are using it
[20:11] <demlasjr> I tried to ask in ubuntu us, but the room is full and nobody helping me :(
[20:11] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, and haven't you switched to the classic GUI on the login screen?
[20:11] <demlasjr> gord can you please help me if you can ?
[20:11] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: it's just as bad, tbh
[20:11] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, I se.
[20:11] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, That's just gnome, works exactly the same for me
[20:11] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I don't use Ubuntu and after Natty I won't recommend it any more
[20:11] <gord> demlasjr, don't ask specfic people to help you :) just ask the room, if someone knows the answer they will pipe up. or you may wish to take a look at askubuntu.com
[20:12] <Monotoko> alt+f2 does work the same way...?
[20:12] <gordonjcp> Monotoko: no, it doesn't
[20:12] <knightwise> hey ;-) if anyone has an idea whats wrong with my script .. please scream : http://pastebin.com/4SNvHkVF
[20:12] <gordonjcp> Monotoko: you can't just type in what you want and hit return
[20:12] <gordonjcp> Natty is clearly a distro for geeks, and geeks only
[20:12] <demlasjr> well...I tried everything...in wep, wpa, wpa2....now I can't even see my router in the wireless list...sometimes the icon is disappearing....
[20:12] <gordonjcp> it's not newbie-friendly at all
[20:12] <gord> yeah you can
[20:13] <gord> aaand our user testing disagree's with you gordonjcp
[20:13] <demlasjr> and I'm already 2 f***ing hours under a table
[20:13] <demlasjr> trying to fix this wireless :(
[20:13] <gordonjcp> gord: well, it fails the "My Mum" test instantly
[20:13] <KrisDouglas> I think non-poweruser wise it's not too bad.
[20:13] <Monotoko> gordonjcp, it'll take a few days at most to adapt to it, and people who have already converted to Linux will be used to changing away
[20:13] <Monotoko> in my opinion it is a lot more user friendly
[20:14] <gord> gordonjcp, you mean you tested it with your mum? or you just assume
[20:14] <ahayzen> HI
[20:15] <gordonjcp> gord: I backed up my mum's PC, updated it to Natty, and sat her down in front of it; she can't use it
[20:15] <ahayzen> the natty installer is still stuck at 'restoring previously installed packages'
[20:15] <ahayzen> is there any way of finding out the progress of this?
[20:15] <ali1234> the wine/pulse/hda bug is not fixed :(
[20:15] <KrisDouglas> ahayzen, that took a while when I ran an upgrade.
[20:16] <ahayzen> how long did it take for you?
[20:16] <gordonjcp> all her desktop icons are gone, nothing is easy to find, she can't work out the menu-at-the-top-of-the-screen thing
[20:16] <KrisDouglas> around 20min/half an hour.
[20:16] <gordonjcp> gord: she's moderately computer-literate, but not particularly so
[20:16] <ahayzen> mines been going for 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours :'(
[20:16] <KrisDouglas> gordonjcp, the global menu
[20:17] <gordonjcp> KrisDouglas: I can't figure the global menu out at all
[20:17] <demlasjr> so I guess that I need to switch to windows... :|
[20:17] <gordonjcp> demlasjr: yes
[20:17] <gord> gordonjcp, why are all her desktop icons gone?
[20:17] <gordonjcp> demlasjr: or a different distro of Linux, or alternatively read the wiki for instructions
[20:17] <gordonjcp> gord: no idea
[20:17] <gord> thats not unity.
[20:18] <KrisDouglas> demlasjr, what has happened with your wireless? Has the upgrade broken it?
[20:18] <gordonjcp> gord: so for the moment I've wiped it and put 10.04 back on
[20:18] <Laney> my girlfriend is annoyed that it took over her windows+[123456789] keys for switching workspaces
[20:18] <gordonjcp> gord: at least she can get stuff done with that
[20:18] <demlasjr> no KrisDouglas....I can't get it working....I tried 2 hours and nothing....
[20:19] <demlasjr> I tried WEP, WPA,WPA2, no way to make it working...
[20:19] <Laney> It would be great if unity's keybindings were exposed in gnome-keybinding-properties
[20:19] <demlasjr> it's like I'm introducing a wrong password
[20:19] <Laney> because at the minute I can set up conflicting keybindings there
[20:19] <gord> gordonjcp, or you could sit down with her for two minutes to explain how to search and use the launcher :) but whatever - i'm just saying that our user testing shows that unity isn't perfect, of course, but its certainly not the train wreck you make it out to be
[20:19] <KrisDouglas> Could be the driver that is loaded for your wireless card is incorrect, demlasjr.
[20:20] <gord> Laney, problem is that its compiz your talking about there not unity, compiz is multi-platform so it can't be something integrated into gnome like that
[20:20] <Laney> why can't compiz look at those bindings too?
[20:21] <gord> gnome doesn't have those bindings does it?
[20:21] <Laney> which?
[20:21] <gord> whatever one you are talking about :)
[20:21] <demlasjr> it was installed by jockey KrisDouglas
[20:21] <Laney> no, I'm saying that they should be in there
[20:21] <KrisDouglas> demlasjr, look at your PM
[20:22] <gordonjcp> gord: I don't know how to use the search or the launcher
[20:22] <gordonjcp> gord: and I can't figure it out
[20:22] <gord> Laney, gnome does its own thing, gnome doesn't even support you using compiz anymore, can't really say "hey you should have this binding" - gnome just has what it has
[20:23] <gord> we do need to unify the keybindings somehow though, obviously
[20:23] <Laney> compiz at least reads the bindings from g-k-p, because the ones we set to non-conflicting shortcuts work
[20:23] <KnightAir> hey Laney
[20:23] <KnightAir> long time no see
[20:23] <Psychobudgie> I actually quite like the search, hit the super key and type away
[20:23] <Laney> ello
[20:23] <Psychobudgie> works well
[20:24] <KnightAir> anyone have any idea whats wrong in this script http://pastebin.com/4SNvHkVF
[20:24] <gordonjcp> yuck, compiz is back
[20:24] <Psychobudgie> it's the global menus I hate, they are as aesthetically appealing as me with a hangover and as user friendly as ....well me with a hangover
[20:24] <KnightAir> it rsyncs the "newest" podcassts downloaded into the  subdirs of my podcast folder to the destination folder
[20:24] <gordonjcp> is there a way to get rid of compiz entirely?
[20:24] <KnightAir> works great .. and then it deletes them all again .. but three
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> xfce :P
[20:26] <Myrtti> oh, the SPEED
[20:26]  * popey hugs 10.04
[20:26]  * Myrtti just upgraded her internet connection with a new ADSL2+/802.11n box
[20:26]  * KnightAir decides not to upgrade after watching popey hug
[20:27] <Laney> the Ubuntu Gnome 3 Remix would be good
[20:27] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: I just switched from BT to Orange, so hopefully I should see some difference from their ADSL2+/802.11n router
[20:27] <suprengr> popey, +1
[20:27] <ahayzen> what would happen if i stopped the upgrade of natty at 'Restoring previously installed packages'? is there much more for it to do after this?
[20:27] <Azelphur> Had a street party for royal wedding, got ssh on the machine doing the music and made it play white n nerdy. :D
[20:28] <gordonjcp> I celebrated the royal wedding by jetwashing the cat's litter tray
[20:28] <Azelphur> xD
[20:28] <Myrtti> I've never seen 2.0M/s on wget before, and I've had this deal with my ISP for... years.
[20:30]  * gord sulks with his 2mbit
[20:30] <gord> oh how i wish for 3mbit some day
[20:30] <gord> i will tell my grand kids about it
[20:30] <gordonjcp> heh
[20:30]  * gordonjcp can remember when 2400bps was pretty new and spangly, and 9600 was amazingly quick
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> back when you rode to work on the back of a dinosaur?
[20:32] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: uphill both ways, yes
[20:32] <jibadeeha> flintstones
[20:33]  * gordonjcp still uses 1200bps and 9600bps modems, pretty much daily
[20:33] <jibadeeha> i remember using bulletin boards on 1200bps
[20:38]  * MartijnVdS started with 2400 (with MNP4)
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> or was it 5
[20:38] <Laney> I remember dialling a BBS only to find out that it had shut down when loud shouting started coming out of my modem
[20:38]  * jacobw seems to remember gord saying 2mbit was enough for anyone
[20:38] <KrisDouglas> we have 50meg broadband here
[20:39] <gordonjcp> Laney: haha
[20:39] <KrisDouglas>  stuff comes down at about 4ish MB/s
[20:39] <gordonjcp> Laney: I used to be able to whistle 1200bps connect tones
[20:39] <gord> jacobw, it is :) but you always want more right?
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: I'm getting a 600/600 connection somewhere this year :)
[20:39] <gord> at least at the moment i'm not limited by 2mbit
[20:39] <gordonjcp> Laney: this usually crashed the modem my mate used for his BBS, so if his parents wanted to phone him they'd phone me, I'd phone him up and lock up his modem, and then they'd phone and get through :-D
[20:40] <gordonjcp> gord: are you on a really long copper loop?
[20:41] <KrisDouglas> MartijnVdS, The best we have is a 40/100 at one of our customer's offices. Nothing like that
[20:41] <gord> gordonjcp, no idea
[20:42] <gordonjcp> gord: I'm moderately out in the sticks, and get 4Mbps
[20:42] <gordonjcp> with a ridiculously long copper loop from the exchange
[20:42] <gordonjcp> that goes via underground cable about four miles to a weather station, then the last quarter of a mile via overhead lines that keep getting blown down ;-)
[20:42] <gord> all i know is that internet speeds in my area all suck :) waiting for FTC with a non crappy isp
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: I'm in the Netherlands, and the company that's laying the fiber (= KPN, think BT) wants to go faster than current cable standards can provide :)
[20:43] <KrisDouglas> MartijnVdS, damn you.
[20:43] <gordonjcp> gord: I tend to get my overhead line back up pretty quickly since I have a bit of a "magic number" for BT Openreach ;-)
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: (= TV cable cable; to annoy their biggest competitors)
[20:44] <gordonjcp> gord: we do something like £60 or 70k a year on BT lines, so they seem quite keen to keep me happy...
[20:45] <KrisDouglas> We're a BT wholesale partner XD
[20:45] <gord> heh i started downloading a game on steam and my ubuntu update speed plumited from 20 minutes left to 242 minutes left. we must be doing some TOS or something nice like that :)
[20:46] <KrisDouglas> Steam is terrible, it just drains the whole connection to get stuff down quickly.
[20:47] <KrisDouglas> yay 14.5kb/s off the ppa servers
[20:48] <gord> yeah it does do that... my favourite is when its downloading so much that when i try and launch a game, it takes like five minutes for steam to contact its authentication servers
[20:50] <Azelphur> I'm having so much fun messing with the computer that's playing music on the street party via ssh from my room :D
[20:50] <Azelphur> I made it play white n nerdy, the theme tune to only fools and horses, and I aplayed "Got ya nose!" from asdfmovie
[20:51] <Azelphur> next I'm going to enqueue jingle bills in the playlist XD
[20:52] <ali1234> someone rang up bbc radio nottingham and requested frog princess by divine comedy
[20:54] <popey> heh
[20:55] <popey> reminds me, must upgrade to 30Mb
[20:55] <ali1234> i upgraded internet here yesterday
[20:55] <Azelphur> added jingle bells to the rythmbox playlist :D
[20:55] <Azelphur> teehee.
[20:55] <ali1234> got 200GB allowance now, and no metering off peak
[20:56] <gord> why i have be unlimited, no silly rules like that
[20:56] <Azelphur> hahaha it's playing
[20:56] <Azelphur> everyone in the street is cracking up
[20:56] <gord> you just gets the internet
[20:56] <ali1234> gord: and you get 2mbit :)
[20:57] <ali1234> anyway what happened to sky unlimited super fast internet?
[20:57] <gord> i get 2mbit with every isp :) actually much higher than the 1 to 1.5 i was getting with sky
[20:57] <KrisDouglas> our broadband is BE Unlimited bonded
[20:57] <popey> whats the betting virgin aren't there at this time of night
[20:59] <ahayzen> my upgrade of 10.10 to 11.04 is still sitting at 'Restoring previously installed packages' :'(...
[21:00] <KrisDouglas> ahayzen, I think it's gone wrong now.
[21:00] <ahayzen> there seems to be network activity but it is like taking ages :'(
[21:00] <ahayzen> what is supposed to happen after the restore?
[21:00] <popey> wheeee
[21:01] <ahayzen> is it like finished then or does it config GRUB, dpkg etc...?
[21:01] <ahayzen> basically what would happen if i hit the reset now???
[21:03] <gord> no idea, but its not gonna be good ;)
[21:05] <popey> ahayzen: did you try dropping to the console to see what its doing?
[21:05] <ahayzen> yh i am running top at the moment and http and ubiquity are taking most of it ...
[21:08] <popey> if you do a "ps aux | grep apt" does it return anything other than grep?
[21:09] <ahayzen> it shows...
[21:10] <ahayzen> 4 results.
[21:10] <ahayzen> /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/apt-clone /target/ubiquity-apt-clone/apt-close-state-ubuntu.tar.gz natty --destination /target
[21:11] <ahayzen> /usr/lib/apt/methods/http (two of them)
[21:11] <ahayzen> grep --color=auto apt
[21:11] <ahayzen> whoops i was missing a bit...
[21:12] <popey> the http indicates it getting something from a repo/mirror
[21:12] <ahayzen> /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/apt-clone restore-new-distro /target/ubiquity-apt-clone/apt-close-state-ubuntu.tar.gz natty --destination /target
[21:12] <ahayzen> ok
[21:12] <ahayzen> is there anyway of seeing the progress of this?
[21:13] <ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] hello-oneiric - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/04/hello-oneiric/
[21:13] <popey>  how big is /target/ubiquity-apt-clone/apt-close-state-ubuntu.tar.gz
[21:13] <popey> just ls -lh /target/ubiquity-apt-clone/apt-close-state-ubuntu.tar.gz
[21:14] <ahayzen> 42K
[21:14] <popey> heh
[21:15] <ahayzen> --rw-r--r-- 1 root root 42K 2011-04-29 17:56 *the file*
[21:15] <ahayzen> is tht the creation date or last modified?
[21:16] <jacobw> i think its last modified
[21:17] <ahayzen> what is tht file actually used for?
[21:22] <popey> i suspect you machine is just stuck on a slow mirror :(
[21:22] <ahayzen> :(
[21:22] <popey> in ubiquity is there a 'skip' button in the bottom right?
[21:22] <ahayzen> yh but it is greyed out i think ... i'll check..
[21:23] <ahayzen> yeah it is greyed out
[21:23] <popey> hit it anyway
[21:23] <popey> does it work?
[21:23] <ahayzen> nothing :(
[21:23] <popey> :(
[21:24] <ahayzen> if i stopped the install ... then just tried to boot and see what happened.. if very bad then could i not just run the live cd again and press upgrade again?
[21:24] <ahayzen> or would tht not work
[21:25] <ahayzen> and then hopefully get on a faster mirror :)
[21:26] <ahayzen> is there anyway in CLI to show the current network i/o usage?
[21:27] <popey> yes
[21:27] <popey> !info iftop
[21:27] <lubotu3`> iftop (source: iftop): displays bandwidth usage information on an network interface. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.17-16 (maverick), package size 31 kB, installed size 104 kB
[21:27] <popey> in a terminal:-
[21:27] <popey> sudo apt-get install iftop
[21:28] <popey> http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/iftop/
[21:28] <ahayzen> need to enable universe i think...
[21:28] <popey> shouldnt need to
[21:28] <popey> sudo apt-get update
[21:28] <popey> first
[21:28] <ahayzen> ok
[21:28] <zleap> hi
[21:28] <ging> is there anything that doesnt have a top program these days?
[21:28] <popey> universe is on by default
[21:28] <popey> ging: toptop?
[21:28] <popey> top users of top
[21:28] <zleap> i loaded up 11.04 earlier and it didn't seeemto have unity
[21:29] <popey> zleap: what video card?
[21:29] <zleap> not sure
[21:29] <popey> lspci
[21:29] <zleap> it was elsewhere
[21:29] <popey> or lshw -C video
[21:29] <zleap> is unity no default on some hardware
[21:29] <popey> yes
[21:29] <zleap> ah
[21:29] <popey> if the video card doesn't support certain OpenGL features
[21:29] <ahayzen> i got about 50kB/s ! :(
[21:29] <zleap> it auto switches to gnome
[21:30] <zleap> popey, thats cool
[21:30] <ahayzen> 'You will have to enable the component called 'universe''
[21:31] <popey> ah
[21:31] <ahayzen> is there not a native-pre installed tool?
[21:32] <ahayzen> or even how much it has downloaded
[21:32] <jibadeeha> in all my years of using Linux i never knew about iftop .. fantastic piece of software
[21:33] <popey> ahayzen: i dont know what it's downloading
[21:34] <popey> if you like iftop you'll like vnstat :)
[21:34] <ahayzen> well like the gnome-system-monitor it shows the i/o of network and the total i/o
[21:34] <penguin42> hmm, I didn't know either of those - but I've used ntop before
[21:34] <jibadeeha> i only discovered iotop a few months ago
[21:34] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/600959/
[21:34] <jibadeeha> will look at vnstat
[21:35] <popey> ^^ thats from me running vnstat on my server
[21:35] <ahayzen> or how can u tell the gnome-system-monitor to show in tty7? from tty1
[21:35] <jibadeeha> like the output of vnstat popey
[21:35] <popey> there's also....
[21:35] <popey> jsvnstat
[21:36] <popey> http://popey.com/bandwidth/
[21:36] <popey> which plots the output from vnstat
[21:36] <popey> \o/ graphs
[21:37] <jibadeeha> nicely formatted output
[21:38] <ging> my server does less data in a month than yours does in a day
[21:39] <KrisDouglas> jibadeeha, iftop is incredibly good.
[21:39] <jibadeeha> KrisDouglas, been after something like iftop for ages
[21:40] <KrisDouglas> jibadeeha, we use it on our voip servers a lot when we are experiencing issues.
[21:40] <ging> KrisDouglas: where do you work?
[21:40] <ahayzen> right got iptraf installed ...
[21:41] <ahayzen> it is showing 200 - 500 kbits/sec
[21:41] <ahayzen> tht can't be gd if it has been running for 3 hours?
[21:42] <KrisDouglas> my machine is pulling 8544 kbits/sec
[21:42] <KrisDouglas> :s
[21:42] <ahayzen> but wht on earth is it doing ?...
[21:43] <KrisDouglas> ahayzen, IRC uses some data
[21:43] <ahayzen> IRC is on a separate machine ;)
[21:43] <KrisDouglas> but if it's just running idle with no apps open then that is pretty worrying
[21:43] <ahayzen> it is doing 'restoring previously installed packages'
[21:44] <KrisDouglas> ah
[21:44] <ahayzen> but for like 3-4hours
[21:44] <KrisDouglas> perhaps it's downloading something gargantuan?
[21:44] <ahayzen> i think i might stop it and do a fresh install... i got my /home on a separate partition...and backups;)
[21:45] <ahayzen> halting..
[21:46] <popey> *BOOOM*
[21:46] <ging> what happens if you have multiple ubuntu installs on a machine which all use the same /home partition?
[21:46] <ahayzen> its working!...
[21:46] <popey> :)
[21:47] <popey> what happens what ging ?
[21:47] <ahayzen> just gotta sort out nvidia drivers...
[21:47] <ging> popey: well i was going to unstall 11.04 to some free space on my hdd and use my existing /home partition, just wonders if that would cause issues
[21:47] <ahayzen> plymouth was like really bad didn't even show the Ubuntu logo!
[21:48] <ging> especially if i had the same login name for both
[21:49] <popey> it will if an app in 11.04 updates a config file format or database schema
[21:49] <popey> and then you boot back to old ubuntu and that cant cope
[21:49] <ging> yeah that was what i was worried about
[21:50] <ging> i guess it would be ok if i used a differnt login name, but my simple mind would not cope with that
[21:55] <czajkowski> wonder did carla make it on here
[21:55] <czajkowski> popey: did you see a tweet a few mins ago re a mate with an acer trackpad issue
[21:56] <popey> uhm
[21:56] <popey> oh, ya
[21:56] <popey> no idea
[22:01] <jacobw> http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html
[22:10] <ahayzen> thanks for everyones help, i've got unity working and loving the scrollbars :) thankies everyone!
[22:17] <penguin42> the scrollbars are interesting, when I first saw them I was wth - but they're growing on me; I think I might actually like them
[22:27] <gord> huh
[22:27] <gord> installer broke
[22:30] <jacobw> i think i may be addicted to miniclip pool :|
[22:30] <demlasjr> Hey Douglas ...I just want to let you know that the problem was related with the 64bits edition
[22:30] <demlasjr> thank you for your help
[22:31] <demlasjr> however....my processor is a little higher than in 64 bits :) but is ok
[22:32] <31NAAD95W> ok now how i can change my login as this one such or how i can register one ??
[22:32] <gord> and now i'm in grub rescue :(
[22:32] <asykymyra> ok got it :P
[22:32] <penguin42> gord: What happened?
[22:33] <gord> no idea
[22:33] <asykymyra> i need some help with this if anyone got a minute https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNFSHowTo
[22:35] <jacobw> !register
[22:35] <lubotu3`> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type « /nick <nickname> » to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
[22:36] <asykymyra> !register kirior
[22:38] <jacobw> not quite, `/msg nickserv register help`
[22:39] <jacobw> and nickserv will tell you how to register your nick
[22:39] <jacobw> is there any specific problem with that doc?
[22:48] <gord> hrm, every time it goes in to a grub rescue...
[22:52] <jacobw> no grub config files?
[22:54] <gord> its complaining about an unknown file system, i don't know. i'm not messing about with grub. trying with a full wipe this time - might as well get rid of windows on my laptop anyway, never use it
[22:55] <jacobw> i wouldn't try and fix a broken install with ubuntu
[22:55] <gord> wow. now, erm. now i'm looking at a tty, but i have a mouse cursor
[22:55] <gord> is that normal?
[22:55] <gord> that doesn't sound normal
[22:56] <jacobw> you can configure a terminal to have a pointer, but afaik that isn't the default terminal configuration in ubuntu
[22:57] <Oli``> popey: Thanks for the AskUbuntu.com plug
[22:57] <popey> np :)
[22:58] <gord> hrm, now i get no bootable device...
[22:58] <gord> why does ubuntu hate me :(
[23:00] <jacobw> bios?
[23:00] <gord> bios is fine
[23:02] <jacobw> are you installing from usb?
[23:03] <gord> o_O
[23:03] <gord> why has the installer gone insane?
[23:04] <gord> took a look at the partitions it made, a 19.07mb fat16 partition, a 230.87GB ext4 and 2gb of unknown
[23:04] <jacobw> its a conspiracy
[23:05] <jacobw> did you checksum the iso?
[23:06] <jacobw> those partitions are pretty insane
[23:07] <gord> it was a torrent downloaded iso, has built in checksumming
[23:07] <gord> manually created the partitions and using manual partitioning now, lets see if it works
[23:11]  * jacobw predicts corrupted packages
[23:12] <popey> gord: there's no option in 11.04 to have the launcher always visible is there?
[23:13] <jacobw> popey: are you finding that its always visible?
[23:13] <popey> that wasnt what I asked :)
[23:14] <james_w`> Hide Launcher = Never in ccsm?
[23:14] <popey> ahh
[23:14] <popey> magic, thanks jacobw
[23:14] <popey> er james_w`
[23:14] <popey> :)
[23:16] <gord> ... so it managed to corrupt my swap partition during the install
[23:16] <gord> now my swap partition is Unknown
[23:16] <popey> is it possible to edit the contents of the dash?
[23:16] <gord> how do you mean?
[23:17] <popey> change the things listed there
[23:17] <gord> there are lots of different sources, what kind of things?
[23:17] <popey> the four apps, browse the web, play music
[23:17] <popey> that kind of thing
[23:17] <jacobw> you need a scorched earth policy with this sort of weirdness, start again from scratch
[23:17] <gord> ah, nope, hardcoded for now
[23:17] <popey> even if you change default browser?
[23:17] <gord> no no, it uses your default
[23:18] <jacobw> unity would be so much better if stuff wasn't hard coded
[23:18] <gord> i think thats the only thing hard coded...
[23:18] <popey> jacobw: indeed, and ponies
[23:18] <gord> is there anything else?
[23:18] <popey> yes, one more thing
[23:19] <popey> in the search for apps thing, where you see the list of apps you recently used
[23:19] <popey> can you make that list bigger (and maybe get rid of the 'apps available for download') ?
[23:19]  * gord is getting angry with ubuntu now
[23:20] <gord> i can't install the damn thing and it corrupts my partitions constantly
[23:20] <Oli``> gord: I'm late to the table but have you tried an upgrade from 10.10? Seems like it might be safer if you're having issues with the installer
[23:21] <gord> thats a last ditch thing
[23:21] <jacobw> i think you need to check the install media
[23:22] <jacobw> does ubuntu still have the grub option for that? i can't remember
[23:22] <gord> it does
[23:22] <Oli``> It's pretty painless now. You can install 10.10 from CD and then pop the 11.04 CD in and do the upgrade from the live environment (eg - you don't have to download 11.04 one package at a time)
[23:22] <gord> its not painless when you have to download 10.10
[23:22] <Oli``> Fair point.
[23:23] <gord> no errors found on the media
[23:24] <jacobw> hmm :|
[23:26] <JGJones> Hmm I'm impressed at how well Unity 2D is performing on ATI Radeon 7000VE
[23:29] <JGJones> (and even more glad that my old Shuttle PC is still performing just fine, but sad that my original Radeon for it stopped working (jammed fan, and overheated and no longer works) so had to plug in a spare card.
[23:32] <penguin42> JGJones: Well don't forget it doesn't actually have to do anything that clever - (which is the whole reason 2d wasn't that hard)
[23:34] <JGJones> penguin42, I know :) Still...I'm impressed...I actually find 11.04 more responsive compared to 10.10 on the PC (I installed 10.10 originally at first)
[23:49] <Mez> Guys and girls - I'm bored crapless - someone give me book reccomendations
[23:50] <igitihi> Is anybody able to help me restore my grub menu? I can't boot into Ubuntu anymore... Please, it's urgent!
[23:51] <penguin42> Mez: Get a Feynman book
[23:51] <penguin42> igitihi: OK, so what did you do?
[23:51] <jacobw> penguin42: genius
[23:52] <igitihi> penguin42: I have a dual boot system (XP & Ubuntu). I had to reinstall XP and did it successfully but now I can't boot into Ubuntu anymore.
[23:52]  * jacobw has just finished reading a feynman
[23:52] <penguin42> jacobw: Which one?
[23:52] <penguin42> igitihi: OK, so you've got an Ubuntu install CD?
[23:52] <demlasjr> hello again...one more question, does anybody is getting black screens here ?
[23:53] <igitihi> I do have the latest live cd but it doesn't work. It "loads" for about 15 mins and then returns an error message
[23:53] <jacobw> "surely you're joking mr feynman"
[23:53] <penguin42> igitihi: OK, so you need to get yourself a working Ubuntu boot cd or thumbdrive image, preferably for the version of Ubuntu you want to fix
[23:54] <igitihi> penguin42: but I do have a "Super Grub" rescue cd. Is it any good?
[23:54] <Daviey> czajkowski: o/
[23:54] <penguin42> jacobw: Ah, I've not read that one - I've read his papers on computation, the QED one (which I've mostly forgotten), 6 easy pieces and am in the middle of the 6 not-so-easy
[23:54] <penguin42> igitihi: Maybe, I've never used it; if you can use that to boot into the installed Ubuntu then you should be able to tell it to reinstall grub
[23:55] <jacobw> penguin42: the one i've just read is a series of short stories from different points in his life
[23:55] <igitihi> penguin42: Do you know a fast server or torrent site where i can download a live cd? The official ubuntu site is too slow
[23:56] <penguin42> igitihi: It's not a good day for it - EVERYONE is downloading
[23:57] <demlasjr> guys....anybody know something about this bug ? http://www.mailrepository.com/ubuntu-bugs.lists.ubuntu.com/msg/3662666/
[23:57] <igitihi> penguin42: Would Hiren's boot cd be useful?
[23:58] <penguin42> dunno - never used it