[00:54] <Captainkrtek> hello
[01:03] <Rocket2DMn> wow thta was exhausting
[01:03] <Rocket2DMn> just updated all the bugs that were fixed in natty, about 50 of them
[01:03] <Captainkrtek> heh
[01:03] <Captainkrtek> Im about to get started on some more docs
[01:03] <Rocket2DMn> ive only been working on ubuntu-docs, i  might do a fresh install of natty this weekend on my desktop though
[01:04] <Rocket2DMn> then i can work on natty docs moving forward
[01:04] <Captainkrtek> been working on ubuntu-docs
[01:04] <Captainkrtek> in natty now :)
[01:04] <Rocket2DMn> my old laptop has natty but it doesnt support unity
[01:05] <Captainkrtek> what are you using then?
[01:05] <Captainkrtek> (inplace of unity)
[01:05] <Rocket2DMn> it falls back to the classic desktoip
[01:06] <Captainkrtek> ahh right
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> im running lucid right now on ext3 filesystems
[01:08] <Captainkrtek> im running natty on ext4
[01:08] <Captainkrtek> 6 cores :)
[01:08] <Rocket2DMn> id like to upgrade to ext4, and im not sure if my current /home will work given how much configuration may have been updated
[01:08] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[01:09] <Captainkrtek> im still getting used to unity
[01:09] <Captainkrtek> it's pretty different
[01:09] <Rocket2DMn> i guess i can try with my existing /home, if it has issues ill reformat the partition and install ext3
[01:09] <Rocket2DMn> err ext4 i mean
[01:09] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[01:10] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: for best results, I'd do a clean partition of ext4 and then paste your former /home into it
[01:11] <Captainkrtek> yeah ^
[01:11] <Captainkrtek> if you need a server to store the files while moving them I can provide an ftp
[01:11] <Rocket2DMn> ugh, means i need an ext3 or ext4 partition to copy from
[01:11] <jbicha> btrfs might be usable for 11.10
[01:11] <Rocket2DMn> the problem with putting them on a ftp or other filesystem is that permissions will be lost
[01:11] <Captainkrtek> hmm
[01:12] <Captainkrtek> use Ubuntu One?
[01:12] <Rocket2DMn> i suppose i can format an old external HD as ext4 for now
[01:12] <jbicha> isn't almost everything in your /home the same permissions? .gnupg is the only thing I'd care about
[01:12] <Rocket2DMn> actually it wont be big enough..
[01:12] <jbicha> and I'd be selective about which . folders I'd transfer
[01:13] <jbicha> the performance difference between ext3 and ext4 probably won't matter too much if it's too big of a hassle
[01:13] <Rocket2DMn> most of the gnome stuff will be irrelevant
[01:13] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, thats whta i was thinking as well
[01:14] <Rocket2DMn> that's why i might just do ext4 for the installation but leave my home as ext3 and hope the difference between settings in 10.04 and 11.04 are not too significant that the software cant compensate
[01:18] <Rocket2DMn> guess i better prepare some backups and get those out of the way
[01:19] <Captainkrtek> trying to do this: <app>Files & Shares</app>
[01:19] <Captainkrtek> mallard doesnt like ampersands in <app>
[01:22] <Captainkrtek> any ideas?
[01:22] <Captainkrtek> I could just replace it with "and"
[01:23] <Rocket2DMn> can you use a character code or escape the ampersand?
[01:24] <Captainkrtek> I found a workaround
[01:24] <Captainkrtek> choosing a different app
[01:24] <Captainkrtek> heh
[01:24] <Rocket2DMn> boo
[01:24] <Captainkrtek> well
[01:25] <Captainkrtek> actually makes the doc. flow better
[01:25] <Captainkrtek> by using this shortcut
[01:26] <jbicha> &amp; is how you do it
[01:26] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, this sound okay to you? "Open the <app>Home Folder</app> shortcut from the <gui>Unity Launcher</gui>"
[01:26] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, okay
[01:27] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, thanks :)
[01:27] <jbicha> it's just called the launcher, no need to add Unity to the front of it
[01:27] <Captainkrtek> k
[01:27] <Captainkrtek> working on the files-share doc.
[01:29] <jbicha> hmm, I've been capitalizing Launcher but not dash, we'll probably straighten that out in O
[01:29] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[01:29] <Rocket2DMn> im out of the loop on the unity stuff, i need to get caught up
[01:29] <Rocket2DMn> ill be the one asking the questions!
[01:30] <Captainkrtek> Unity is pretty good for dual displays, more viewing space
[01:30] <shaunm> Captainkrtek: it's not a mallard-specific thing. & means something in xml, and you have to escape it as &amp; for a literal ampersand character
[01:31] <shaunm> same for docbook or xhtml or dita or whatever else
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> shaunm, yeah, google helped answer that ;-) Thanks
[01:31] <shaunm> cool
[01:31] <shaunm> google knows all
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, what do you need done after files-share?
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> shaunm, skynet hehe
[01:32] <Rocket2DMn> ok fellas im gonna sign off so i can make backups
[01:32] <Rocket2DMn> ill be back tomorrow
[01:32] <Captainkrtek> talk to you later!
[01:36] <jbicha> ah, so we do talk about ccsm (unity-launcher-change-size)
[01:42] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, have a small patch for you to apply
[01:43] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, here ya go :-) http://paste.ubuntu.com/601075/
[01:54] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: ok
[02:13] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, any specific files you need looked at?
[02:36] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: sorry, um you could just check_status and pick something
[03:21] <Captainkrtek> k
[03:33] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, was that patch good?
[03:38] <jbicha> yup, it's good, I'll merge it by tomorrow
[03:38] <jbicha> thank you
[03:38] <Captainkrtek> k :) Ill get another patch done tonight
[03:39] <Captainkrtek> had one question for you
[03:39] <Captainkrtek> should I be submitting patches using: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty/+register-merge
[03:49] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: no, that's a proposal to merge our branch with another branch
[03:49] <Captainkrtek> yeah looked different
[03:49] <Captainkrtek> K time to get to work :)
[03:50] <jbicha> but you can bzr push to your own branch and click the Propose Merging button there
[03:53] <Krtek|Busy> k
[03:53] <Krtek|Busy> also what about pages marked as REVIEW, can i proof them and mark as final?
[03:53] <Krtek|Busy> hey Rocket2DMn :)
[03:54] <Rocket2DMn> hello
[03:54] <Rocket2DMn> just did a fresh install of natty, using unity now
[03:54] <Krtek|Busy> how do you like it?
[03:54] <Rocket2DMn> its a little weird, but its not bad
[03:54] <Krtek|Busy> yeah
[03:54] <Krtek|Busy> im so-so about it haha
[03:54] <Rocket2DMn> trying to get it configured with my own little quirky preferences
[03:55] <Rocket2DMn> guess ill take banshee for a spin here
[03:56] <Krtek|Busy> Rocket2DMn, new here, can I review the files marked for REVIEW or is that just for committers?
[03:58] <Rocket2DMn> Krtek|Busy, of course you can, you can post your feedback to the mailing list
[03:58] <Krtek|Busy> okay thanks :)
[04:01] <Krtek|Busy> then mark it from Review to Final? or Candidate?
[04:03] <Rocket2DMn> Krtek|Busy, if you want to make changes, you can either post the bzr patch to the mailing list, or alternatively you can make your own branch and do a merge request
[04:04] <Krtek|Busy> yeah I understand, just wondering if I do: <revision version="11.04" date="2011-04-15" status="review"/> to <revision version="11.04" date="2011-04-29" status="final"/>
[04:06] <Rocket2DMn> hmm, i havent really looked at the gnome user docs actually since i just upgraded
[04:06] <Rocket2DMn> hey jbicha , you here?
[04:07] <Krtek|Busy> k
[04:07] <Krtek|Busy> just wondering what status I set a reviewed file to if it looks good, candidate or final
[04:13] <jbicha> yes, I'm mostly here
[04:14] <jbicha> if the page was already written and you only made minor changes, setting it to final is fine for now
[04:14] <Krtek|Busy> okay
[04:14] <Krtek|Busy> thanks :)
[04:15] <jbicha> candidate is for new pages and review is if it should have a 2nd person look it over
[04:15] <Krtek|Busy> should I set that page I wrote on Internet safety to Candidate then?
[04:17] <Rocket2DMn> after using unity for about an hour now, i think my biggest complaint is that some stuff is just tedious to get to, like configuration utilities and apps that i dont have stored in the bar
[04:17] <Krtek|Busy> yeah
[04:17] <Krtek|Busy> I used to have icons pinned to the top
[04:17] <Krtek|Busy> you can't now as far as I know
[04:18] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i had a row of stuff, and getting to the Adminstration menu was quick
[04:18] <Krtek|Busy> same :/
[04:18] <Rocket2DMn> also, it's a pain to try and open multiple terminals
[04:18] <Krtek|Busy> YES
[04:19] <Krtek|Busy> hahah
[04:19] <Krtek|Busy> i have 3 terminals open
[04:19] <Krtek|Busy> I try to open one and it opens em all
[04:19] <Rocket2DMn> i didnt realize how much i used them until they are difficult to open
[04:22] <Rocket2DMn> id like my workspaces to be visible in the panel too
[04:22] <Krtek|Busy> yeah
[04:24] <Rocket2DMn> it's clear that this panel is not as useful for those who multitask
[04:27] <Rocket2DMn> gonna logout to refresh some settings and play with ym network card, bbl
[04:32] <Krtek|Busy> submitting another diff.
[04:38] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: the Gnome 3 System Settings is really nice though, it's not in 11.04 though
[04:39] <jbicha> there are tricks to multitasking but they aren't obvious
[04:39] <jbicha> Meta+W is useful but it really needs to have the window titles visible too
[04:42] <Rocket2DMn> ah the meta key brings up the app search
[04:42] <Rocket2DMn> id rather only my favorite apps show in the side panel and other apps be in a bottom panel
[04:42] <Rocket2DMn> convenience is lost if i have to scroll the side panel
[04:43] <Rocket2DMn> cant seem to edit the icons of my cusom launchers in the panel either
[04:45] <jbicha> no, editing the launchers is more complicated
[04:45] <jbicha> I think you can make your own .desktop files but not completely sure how that works
[04:47] <Rocket2DMn> well, i guess i should be happy that my install went smoothly anyway, my /home didnt get messed up
[04:50] <Rocket2DMn> ooooooooooooooo
[04:50] <Rocket2DMn> middle click opens another instance
[04:50] <Rocket2DMn> e.g. of terminal
[04:51] <Captainkrtek> aww
[04:51] <Captainkrtek> wish I had a middle click :|
[04:52] <Rocket2DMn> you on a laptop?
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> nope
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> Microsoft Arc Mouse
[04:52] <Rocket2DMn> you dont have a scroll wheel?
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> I do
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> but it is flat
[04:52] <Rocket2DMn> that is middle click
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> non clickable
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> it's weird haha
[04:53] <jbicha> click left & right buttons at same time to simulate middle click
[04:53] <jbicha> read the help, lol :-)
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> doesnt work, or my coordination is off ;-)
[04:53] <jbicha> oh ok
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> lol
[04:53] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, nobody here reads documentation, that's blasphemy
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> what documentation?
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[04:54] <Rocket2DMn> well i think the 11.04 docs should go online soon
[04:54] <Captainkrtek> yay
[04:54] <Captainkrtek> I can power through some more outdated ones
[04:54] <Captainkrtek> we have like 30ish left
[04:54] <Rocket2DMn> matthew pushed updates to the branch earlier and i believe it gets polled daily for updates that go live to the site
[04:55] <Captainkrtek> very cool!
[04:55] <Captainkrtek> Final: 		 175
[04:55] <Captainkrtek> Outdated: 	 25
[04:56] <Captainkrtek> and my last commit removes another 5 of those I think
[04:56] <Captainkrtek> so < 20
[04:59] <Rocket2DMn> sweet
[04:59] <Rocket2DMn> hmm im missing my xchat tray icon
[04:59] <Captainkrtek> knocking out a few more now
[04:59] <Captainkrtek> same :/
[05:00] <Rocket2DMn> they really need to add the tray back in
[05:00] <Captainkrtek> yea
[05:01] <Captainkrtek> also the sidebar for unity is pissing me off, I hate having to hover over it to get it to pop up
[05:10] <jbicha> you can set it to never hide
[05:10] <Captainkrtek> oh
[05:10] <jbicha> that's how my wife has hers
[05:10] <jbicha> do you ever use gconf-editor?
[05:10] <Captainkrtek> only saw two settings for unity in System Settings
[05:10] <Captainkrtek> yes
[05:11] <Captainkrtek> ill find it in there he
[05:11] <Captainkrtek> then*
[05:11] <jbicha> /apps/compiz-1/plugins/unityshell/screen0/options/launcher_hide_mode
[05:16] <Captainkrtek> there
[05:17] <Captainkrtek> messing with unity hid my xchat window :|
[05:19] <Captainkrtek> that's very odd... just quit f spot photo manager, my whole desktop reinitiated
[05:22] <jbicha> you can also try Unity 2D, it's probably a bit more stable
[08:47] <jbicha> mdke: thank you, I should have checked the code myself to see what was going on but at least it's fixed
[08:48] <mdke> jbicha: :)
[08:50] <mdke> jbicha: think I've sorted the other one too
[09:05] <mdke> jbicha: you in NY? You keep slightly unorthodox hours :D
[09:07] <jbicha> Maryland at the moment
[09:08] <jbicha> going to an online school but I probably should fix my sleep schedule
[09:10] <mdke> ah, that explains it
[13:59] <Lhademmor> ...is the Ubuntu DocTeam dead? According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda it looks that way...
[14:01] <Pendulum> Lhademmor: it's going, just doesn't have meetings regularly
[14:02] <mdke> Lhademmor: funnily enough it's recently been very active
[14:02] <Lhademmor> Ah, okay then. I may be interested in getting back into the documentation writing business (been out for a while), so I guess I'll stick around then :)
[14:05] <mdke> Lhademmor: we're very keen for new contributors and it is quite an exciting time to get involved with a lot of work going on to document Unity changes
[14:05] <mdke> go ahead and sign up to our mailing list to get the hang of what is going on
[14:06] <Lhademmor> Oh.. I'm on Kubuntu right now so I don't know how able I will be at Unity docs.. :/
[14:06] <Lhademmor> But I'll sign up now :)
[14:07] <mdke> Kubuntu docs need help too
[14:08] <Lhademmor> You mean the wiki? Or upstream app documentation?
[14:09] <mdke> I was thinking of onboard help actually
[14:09] <mdke> but probably everything needs help :)
[14:18] <Lhademmor> I've just marked bug 340246 as invalid, seeing as Netbook Remix has been merged into Desktop. I hope I haven't done anything wrong :)
[14:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 340246 in ubuntu-docs "Netbook Remix needs a seperate ubuntu-doc branch" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340246
[14:20] <mdke> good plan
[15:07] <Rocket2DMn> good morning
[16:08] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, are you here?
[16:32] <Rocket2DMn> ok guys, so i'm doing my first change to the gnome user docs, i've reviewed steve's display-2monitors.page thta he emailed a few days ago
[16:33] <Rocket2DMn> i made some changes, moved it from a .stub to a .page, ran ./check_validation on the file, added the file to Makefile.am, ran ./check_makefil
[16:33] <Rocket2DMn> I also updated the revision date and revision status to final
[16:34] <Rocket2DMn> is there anything else that i need to do before i commit?
[16:34] <Rocket2DMn> ping shaunm ^
[18:19] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: that sounds all perfect
[18:29] <Rocket2DMn> hey mdke , alright i'll commit it, will you have a look at the email that is generated please?
[18:33] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: sure
[18:33] <mdke> I look at em all :)
[18:33] <Rocket2DMn> lol my email to the list got put on moderation queue for being too large
[18:33] <mdke> hmm?
[18:34] <Rocket2DMn> i responded to Steve's request for review wher ehe included his diff inline
[18:34] <Rocket2DMn> the bzr diff must have made the email >40kb with my response
[18:35] <mdke> is there an attachment?
[18:35] <Rocket2DMn> no, for whatever reason it didnt come through as an attachment, i twas just text at the bottom of the email
[18:36] <Rocket2DMn> another email of his thta i looked at did have an attachment, so i'm not sure what he did differently
[18:36] <mdke> alright, I've stuck it through, it was only just over the limit
[18:37] <Rocket2DMn> thanks, first time ive had that issue, didnt know there was even a limit
[18:39] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I guess <p>Note: should be <note><p>
[18:40] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: also, in the <steps> section, it looks like you could separate out a few more items; like the first item is really two
[18:41] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i was wondering about the note thing, i assumed mallard had such an element but i just wasnt sure.  that's just how he wrote it, i just formatted it
[18:41] <Rocket2DMn> i'll go ahead and make some changes
[18:42] <Rocket2DMn> give me a few though, still getting software loaded on my fresh natty install :)
[18:42] <mdke> I would use "click" instead of "hit"
[18:42] <mdke> or "choose"
[18:42] <mdke> "by default" instead of "at default"
[18:43] <mdke> steve isn't around I guess
[18:44] <Rocket2DMn> +1 to your comments
[18:46] <j1mc> mdke: Rocket2DMn ... is there anything that you all are working on that could benefit from additional attention now?
[18:46] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, when i've been doing work recently, i've been putting new sentences on different lines so statements dont get bundled in translation
[18:46] <Rocket2DMn> hey j1mc , one of the tasks i put on the oneiric page was to do a complete review of bugs
[18:46] <Rocket2DMn> if we dont have other stuff to work on, we can start on some of those
[18:46] <mdke> j1mc: we still have 25 docs marked as outdated that needs reviewing for unity compatibility I guess; also a few files to review and various stubs
[18:47] <Rocket2DMn> unity docs take preference :)
[18:47] <j1mc> ok - i'll take a look at the stubs list
[18:48] <Rocket2DMn> What has been our preferred method for getting to the System Settings in the docs?
[18:49] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: session menu (see mouse-disabletouchpad.page for an example)
[18:49] <mdke> j1mc: the outdated ones are the highest priority if you have the inclination, because if they are wrong then we are changing strings for translators rather than just adding them
[18:50] <Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , so the icon in the top menu then
[18:50] <j1mc> for 11.10 we'll want to look at issues like this: http://i.imgur.com/aQ70u.png
[18:50] <mdke> "Click the icon at the very right of the <gui>top panel</gui> and select <gui>System Settings</gui>."
[18:51] <mdke> j1mc: yeah
[18:51] <j1mc> are we calling it top panel?  :)  we had the discussion on this list about calling it the menu bar.
[18:51] <j1mc> s/this/the
[18:51] <mdke> j1mc: yes, but it would require us to change like 150 files I think
[18:51] <mdke> it's an issue for the next release
[18:52] <j1mc> ok
[18:52] <mdke> maybe that's an exaggeration, 59 :)
[18:53] <mdke> j1mc: also, I'd really like to look into clarifying the terminology with the developers, because it seems a bit unclear. Perhaps you could start this at UDS?
[18:53] <Rocket2DMn> does yelp cache .page files? It doesnt seem to always open the updated ones when i tell it to
[18:53] <mdke> no idea
[18:53] <j1mc> are translators translating our docs now? it wouldn't be that difficult to write a script to change instances of 'top panel' and 'top bar' to 'menu bar'
[18:54] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i've heard that mentioned before, but i've never experienced that problem.
[18:54] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: you have to wait a few seconds for yelp to finish closing
[18:55] <jbicha> I run yelp . from the command line and wait for me to get the prompt back
[18:55] <j1mc> yelp does close 5 seconds after you shut it down... ctrl-c will close it immediately
[18:55] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, that could be it, i usually like to compare the old and new ones side by side in yelp windows though, but i guess i cant do that anymore
[18:55] <jbicha> yeah, that won't work :-(
[18:55] <Rocket2DMn> i right click in nautilus and open with...
[18:55] <mdke> j1mc: no, not right now - hopefully in the next few days
[18:56] <jbicha> as j1mc said, you could just sed it to change the terms
[18:56] <mdke> j1mc: but I think that "top panel" is easily understandable and would personally wait until we have had the discussion about terminology with the design people
[18:57] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, any other suggestions for that display-2monitors page?
[18:57] <j1mc> if we can get it corrected now, though, why not do it before the translators start their work?
[18:57] <j1mc> it will make things more consistent for users.
[18:58] <mdke> j1mc: are we sure it is the right terminology?
[18:58] <mdke> I had understood that it was an open question
[18:59] <Rocket2DMn> i havent had a chance to look at this page, but a fellow forum staff member posted this in a sticky on the forums, could be useufl - http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014/the-power-users-guide-to-unity
[18:59] <j1mc> i didn't read the post from ted gould. it seems inconsistent even amongst canonical folks. none of them call it 'top bar' or 'top panel' though
[18:59] <mdke> I think some of the UI tools refer to panel, don't they?
[18:59] <j1mc> yes
[18:59] <mdke> so any inconsistency isn't really on our side :)
[19:00] <j1mc> oh... no, sorry...
[19:00] <j1mc> i misread what you said.
[19:00] <j1mc> i'm not sure if any ui tools refer to the panel
[19:00] <mdke> The "monitors" one does
[19:00] <j1mc> ah, ok
[19:00] <mdke> "Show monitors in panel"
[19:01]  * mdke looks around for others
[19:03] <mdke> the "clock" one refers to the "menu bar"
[19:03] <jbicha> mdke: I think that's the only one; the power applet says "notification area"
[19:03]  * mdke nods
[19:04] <jbicha> I updated the askubuntu answer to say menu bar also
[19:04] <mdke> well, I don't mind if we change it, if that's the right terminology
[19:06] <j1mc> i'll read over what jbicha linked to from ted gould, but i think there's a decent rationale for 'menu bar' with unity.
[19:06] <j1mc> and we should be at least internally consistent in the docs
[19:06] <mdke> if it was me I would change the whole instruction to "In the <link>Session menu</link>, select <gui>System Settings</gui>".
[19:07] <mdke> with the link pointing at an explanation of what the session menu is
[19:07] <jbicha> we can do that to
[19:07] <mdke> or better a mouseover glossary note
[19:07] <mdke> does Mallard do such mouseover glossary notes?
[19:07] <j1mc> i don't think so - would be a reasonable feature request, though.
[19:08] <jbicha> I like the name "System menu" but obviously, design doesn't use that name so that's probably not a good name now
[19:08] <mdke> the problem is that by adding the system settings, they have totally distorted the session menu
[19:08] <mdke> and it's wholly undiscoverable anyway
[19:09] <mdke> I can't understand why they didn't add it to the launchers underneath Applications
[19:09] <j1mc> yeah, it is a big gripe from users
[19:09] <mdke> brb
[19:09] <jbicha> it's similar to what Gnome 3 does
[19:09] <jbicha> the entire Dash needs a redesign
[19:11] <mdke> a bit of stubbornness from them
[19:12] <mdke> anyway, I think it is up for discussion at UDS, *nudges j1mc*
[19:13] <j1mc> the location of the 'system settings' menu?
[19:13] <jbicha> here's another terminology thing, the "Settings" buttons at the bottom of the indicators are inconsistent
[19:13] <mdke> yeah
[19:13] <j1mc> i will be working on the docs-session proposal this weekend. i'll let the docs team know when it's ready... we can edit it if i've missed something
[19:14] <mdke> ok, I'm off for dinner + doctor who
[19:15] <j1mc> thanks for your help, mdke
[19:16] <j1mc> you too, Rocket2DMn and jbicha   : )
[19:16] <j1mc> and shaunm!
[21:02] <marcoceppi_> Hi
[21:03] <Rocket2DMn> hi
[21:03] <Captainkrtek> hey guys
[21:04] <jbicha> marcoceppi_: hi, welcome!
[21:05] <Captainkrtek> hey jbicha :)
[21:05] <Rocket2DMn> anyone  know if you can rearrange launchers that you have pinned in the panel?
[21:06] <Rocket2DMn> in unity that is
[21:06] <marcoceppi_> For some reason my normal nick marcoceppi has been banned :\ anyways, hello!
[21:06] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: click the launcher icon and hold for a few seconds than drag it where you want it
[21:06] <Rocket2DMn> ahh thanks jbicha
[21:06] <jbicha> marcoceppi: once you bzr branch, you'll want to cd libs
[21:07] <jbicha> then make gnome-help
[21:07] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: you can also move the launchers by clicking and moving them outside of the launcher area... and then dragging them to where you want them.
[21:08] <Rocket2DMn> what do you mean outside of the launcer area, you mean to the dekstop?
[21:08] <j1mc> yeah... kinda.  just move it out a little to the left
[21:08] <j1mc> i mean, to the right.  :)
[21:08] <Rocket2DMn> oh i see, just sorta swing it around rather than click-and-hold
[21:09] <j1mc> yeah
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> gracias
[21:09] <j1mc> on unity-2d, only the click-and-hold works
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> thats sorta random
[21:09] <jbicha> you don't need to move outside the launcher anymore, that was 10.10 and early natty
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> j1mc, do you think the search docs we ship with natty fix bug 129505
[21:09] <jbicha> but both work
[21:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 129505 in ubuntu-docs "Docs required on desktop search tools" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129505
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> ie https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/ubuntu-help/files-search.html
[21:10] <j1mc> well, it's another option... another way of doing it
[21:10] <mdke> hey guys
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> o/
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> how was dinner and dr who?
[21:10] <mdke> both good thanks
[21:10] <jbicha> mdke: marcoceppi  might be able to help us out with our CSS for the website
[21:11] <j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i don't think that fixes it.
[21:11] <mdke> cool, hi marcoceppi
[21:11] <j1mc> i think they want something like tracker or the new search infrastructure that is just getting started
[21:11] <Rocket2DMn> theres _another_ search infrastructure coming?
[21:11] <marcoceppi> Hello! I do a lot of web development stuff, most recently was the fixes to apt.ubuntu.com to allow access not only to Firefox, but Chrome and other Ubuntu browsers (as well as new stylization)
[21:12] <Rocket2DMn> that bug is rather old
[21:12] <j1mc> i can't think of the name... it's what shows you the recent files.
[21:12] <j1mc> zeitgeist
[21:12] <mdke> marcoceppi: we're looking to update help.ubuntu.com for the new website branding in the coming release. It involves updating our static help files and the wiki theme - there is code already available for both I believe which can be ported reasonably easily
[21:12] <jbicha> bless you
[21:13] <j1mc> :)
[21:13] <Rocket2DMn> yeah j1mc i just downloaded an app this morning to configure it zeitgeist a little
[21:13] <marcoceppi> mdke: I'm branching the stuff from LP now
[21:13] <Rocket2DMn> lol jbicha
[21:14] <mdke> marcoceppi: cool. I'm happy to help you find stuff and review. Did you find the existing wiki theme?
[21:15] <mdke> (it's here - lp:~mdke/ubuntu-docs/helpwiki-newtheme)
[21:15] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, thanks for your edits on the display-2monitors doc :)
[21:16] <Rocket2DMn> np man, dual monitors is a lot easier these days than it used to be
[21:16] <Captainkrtek> yeah definetly
[21:16] <Rocket2DMn> 3 or 4 years ago i couldve written a small novel on how to setup dual head
[21:16] <Captainkrtek> can you look at a file for me?
[21:16] <marcoceppi> mdke: Cool, I just branched lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty - not sure if that's also another part to look at
[21:16] <Captainkrtek> it's the only candidate now I think
[21:17] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: there was one other thing on the patch earlier. We have been introducing line breaks rather more forcifully in some of these files; say every 80 or 100 characters
[21:17] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i usually try to put each sentence or statement on a new line
[21:17] <Rocket2DMn> wouldnt that make translations better - to translate a whole sentence, no more no less?
[21:17] <Captainkrtek> mdke, you're Matthew right?
[21:18] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: line breaks don't cause any problems for translations
[21:18] <mdke> Captainkrtek: yes
[21:18] <Captainkrtek> mdke, just wanted to say thanks as well :-)
[21:19] <j1mc> i'll be back later, all.
[21:19] <mdke> marcoceppi: ok so there are two different parts to help.ubuntu.com, there is the static html part (which is generated from our bzr branches for ubuntu-docs) and the wiki part
[21:19] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i thought each "line" made a new translation string
[21:19] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: nope
[21:19] <mdke> marcoceppi: so the code for generating the static html is all in the gnome-user-docs/natty branch in libs/ubuntu.xsl
[21:19] <Rocket2DMn> so how does it know where a string begins and ends?
[21:20] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: it uses the tags
[21:20] <marcoceppi> Ah, okay
[21:20] <Rocket2DMn> hmm ok
[21:20] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, see bug 510650 :)
[21:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 510650 in ubuntu-docs "Standardize source formatting of ubuntu-docs source xml" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510650
[21:21] <mdke> marcoceppi: have you worked with xsl before?
[21:21] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, do you think you could look at net-security-tips.page ? need someone to review it
[21:22] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yeah, it's a good idea - perhaps part of rewriting the style guide which j1mc mentioned working on...
[21:22] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, the only way i can think of to really enforce formatting is to use an autoformatter
[21:23] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: pretty difficult to enforce it but we can encourage it. Putting a vertical line in gedit at 80 characters is working to remind me
[21:23] <marcoceppi> mdke: Yes, but limited work. I understand the format
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> yeah mdke , i have that line as well
[21:24] <mdke> marcoceppi: ok, the file should be reasonably self-explanatory then. Most of the html and css is imported from the default yelp stylesheets, and we just customise the high level stuff
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> tbh 80 characters is a little short these days, but if people are working out of terminals, it is still the de facto standard i suppose
[21:24] <mdke> 80 or 100 I guess
[21:25] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ref - http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2011-April/msg00041.html
[21:25] <marcoceppi> mdke: Sounds pretty straight forward. At least you guy use mostly standard class names and such :)
[21:25] <Rocket2DMn> i usually gravitate toward about 120, but that's just me
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> lol mdke , yeah, i can do that
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> single sentences dont usually go longer than that anyway
[21:26]  * mdke nods
[21:27] <mdke> marcoceppi: I guess you're familiar with the various templates around for the new branding?
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, the commit i made after the initial one is a little cleaner after i broke up some of the steps and broke down some sentences
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> i can go add some more line breaks now if youd like
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, sorry for being slow here, i can review that pag ein a bit
[21:28] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: it's no big deal, I was just mentioning it. Plenty of other files don't do this
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> ok mdke , duly noted for the future
[21:28] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, thank you very much, check the mailing list for the diff :)
[21:29] <Captainkrtek> no rush
[21:29] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, yup
[21:29] <Captainkrtek> also jbicha submitted the files-share page
[21:29] <Captainkrtek> and some others
[21:29] <Captainkrtek> we should be down to <20 outdated docs
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, do you still have the diff available in your branch checkout
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> the pastebin is not formatted at all
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> or is that just how you wrote it?
[21:37] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, let me see
[21:37] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, a couple pieces of feedback so far
[21:37] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, I don't :/ the pastebin must've done that
[21:37] <Captainkrtek> let me see if I have another copy
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> first, please use indentation/formatting of the XML (child elements should be indented further than their parent elements)
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> second, please try not to use contractions, e.g. say "you are" instead of "you're"
[21:39] <mdke> Captainkrtek: you can try pushing your branch to Launchpad instead of the pastebin. So "bzr push lp:~username/gnome-user-docs/net-security-tips" (after committing). Alternatively attach our patch to a bug report
[21:41] <Captainkrtek> okay
[21:41] <Captainkrtek> thanks :)
[21:41] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2011-April/015671.html
[21:41] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, some of the docs i've been seeing come across as rather informal, lots of usage of "you" - are we OK with this or do we prefer to limit that?
[21:41] <mdke> see Phil's comment above
[21:42] <Rocket2DMn> ah
[21:42] <jbicha> they just keep changing the rules on us! :-)
[21:43] <Rocket2DMn> yeah no kidding
[21:43] <mdke> hooray for Clint Byrum
[21:43] <Rocket2DMn> I usually prefer to keep it professional, it looks cleaner and tends to keep at bay digressions and other material that may not be immediately relevant or is just superflous
[21:44] <mdke> there is quite a difficult balance
[21:44] <Rocket2DMn> for instance, why say, "After you click X, then you can click Y," when you can say, "Click X, then click Y."
[21:45] <mdke> yes, I agree with that - less is more there
[21:45] <mdke> for me some regular contractions are fine to keep things informal, but when you start using informality that could be misunderstood by users or translators, we are in trouble
[21:46] <jbicha> I like to be real concise but I'm learning that I can be misunderstood when I don't use enough words
[21:46] <mdke> can everyone test gnome-user-docs 3.0.0+git20110406ubuntu9 in natty-proposed
[21:46] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, i think the problem there is that our vocabulary is not consistent or even understood yet
[21:47] <Rocket2DMn> we hvae to say "click the icon in the upper right to open the session menu, then choose X" rather than "go to the session menu and choose X"
[21:48] <mdke> that might be part of the problem
[21:48] <mdke> but informality vs formality is a tricky issue in its own right
[21:48] <mdke> it's really a question of common sense / judgment once we have laid down some basic guidelines
[21:48] <jbicha> I believe the session menu is the only confusing one that requires the extra words
[21:48] <jbicha> but it's mentioned so many times
[21:49] <Rocket2DMn> heh yeah we should just import a string every time we want to open that menu
[21:49] <jbicha> logging out for a bit
[21:49] <Rocket2DMn> &open-session-menu-already!!;
[21:56] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1551
[21:58] <Rocket2DMn> sexy
[21:58] <Captainkrtek> :-D
[21:59] <Rocket2DMn> if you really wanted to format it cleanly, everything inside the <page> element would be indented from that, but i know other docs arent doing that so its ok
[21:59] <Rocket2DMn> (like you did with <info>)
[21:59] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, i would get rid of the ... at the end of the description.  a single period is fine
[21:59] <Captainkrtek> okay
[22:00] <Captainkrtek> ill go make more fixes and re-push
[22:00] <Rocket2DMn> let me finish reading before you make extra effort
[22:00] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> "are always vulnerabilities, most of those l"
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> i would say "are always vulnerabilities, many of which liel"
[22:01] <Rocket2DMn> err sp error, you get the idea
[22:01] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:01] <Captainkrtek> whoops
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> in your last list, i would mention to not open attachments from people you dont know
[22:02] <Captainkrtek> sure
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> and dont respond to them
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> or click link
[22:02] <Rocket2DMn> s
[22:03] <Captainkrtek> yeah good idea
[22:03] <Rocket2DMn> that seems not necessary -> that seems unnecessary
[22:05] <Captainkrtek> most of those lie --> most of those lay ?
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> consequences you could have by submitting such infoformation -> consequences if that information is compromised by identity thieves or other criminals
[22:05] <Rocket2DMn> note that you misspelled information as well
[22:05] <Captainkrtek> whoops
[22:05] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:06] <Captainkrtek> thought I fixed that last night haha
[22:06] <Rocket2DMn> well-known; providing anyone/anything -> make that two sentences
[22:06] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> use semicolons very rarely, it's difficult enough to use them correctly in english, i can only image how to translate their usage
[22:07] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:07] <Rocket2DMn> "running necessary remote-access services that you need" - that is repetitive, just say "running remote access services that you need"
[22:08] <Rocket2DMn> "leaves your computer open to remote access" -> "leaves your computer open to intrusion"
[22:08] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:09] <Captainkrtek> "whether" --> "whether you use"
[22:09] <Rocket2DMn> "You can also ensure secure remote-access by utilizing a firewall" - you can't ensure security.  Maybe say "Consider using a firewall""
[22:10] <Captainkrtek> yeah true
[22:10] <Rocket2DMn> most users may not even know what a firewall is or have any idea that there is such a thing as a hardware firewall
[22:10] <Captainkrtek> how about this
[22:11] <Captainkrtek> "Consider using a firewall to help protect your computer from intrusion,
[22:11] <Captainkrtek> whether you use hardware or software is your choice"
[22:11] <Captainkrtek> true
[22:11] <Rocket2DMn> if there are docs on firewalls, you can link to those
[22:11] <Captainkrtek> ahh there is one I think
[22:11] <Rocket2DMn> there are in the ubuntu-docs i bleieve, and definitely are on the community wiki
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> net-firewall-on-off.page
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> adding
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> Consider using a <link xref="net-firewall-on-off.page">firewall</link> to help
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> protect your computer from intrusion.
[22:12] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i like that
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> sound good? :-)
[22:12] <Captainkrtek> cool :D
[22:13] <Captainkrtek> okay let me just go make some changes and re-read it myself
[22:13] <Captainkrtek> also, this sound good? "there are always vulnerabilities, most of those lay in the hands of the end user."
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> not really a fan of the second part
[22:15] <Captainkrtek> yeah...
[22:15] <Captainkrtek> ill fix it
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> first i dont think its necessarily accurate, also "lay in the hands of" sounds weird
[22:15] <Captainkrtek> well the definition of lie does not include placing something
[22:15] <Rocket2DMn> a native english speaker will understand, but it's a cultural phrase
[22:16] <Captainkrtek> hrmm
[22:16] <Captainkrtek> actually lie does include that
[22:16] <Rocket2DMn> not sure what the word im looking for is, but i think you get my point
[22:16] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:16] <Captainkrtek> ill re-word it
[22:17] <Captainkrtek> "there are always vulnerabilities, mostly ones that the user is in control of."
[22:18] <Captainkrtek> control of still sounds odd
[22:18] <Captainkrtek> "responsible for" ?
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> you know, i dont think that second part of the sentence even applies to that list anyway
[22:20] <Rocket2DMn> it applies to the second list about emails and whatnot
[22:20] <Captainkrtek> true....
[22:20] <Captainkrtek> just trying to imply that the user in in control of their own security
[22:21] <Rocket2DMn> "Despite the security measures taken to ensure your installation of Linux is secure, there are always vulnerabilities. As an average..."
[22:21] <Captainkrtek> yeah that does sound good
[22:22] <Captainkrtek> Ill do that then
[22:22] <Captainkrtek> want me to change it to final?
[22:23] <Rocket2DMn> make those changes and push to your branch again
[22:23] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:24] <Captainkrtek> just proofing it one more time
[22:28] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1552
[22:32] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, give me 10 minutes
[22:33] <Captainkrtek> no rush :)
[22:33] <Rocket2DMn> gotta finish spamming everyone's inbox with bugmail
[22:33] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[22:33] <Captainkrtek> I had to make a filter in gmail for the bug lists I follow
[22:37] <Rocket2DMn> ok, sorry about that
[22:38] <Captainkrtek> no problem :)
[22:39] <Rocket2DMn> let me grab your branch to see the diff, its confusing looking at a single commit on LP
[22:39] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> for its' robust
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> lose the apostrophe
[22:41] <Rocket2DMn> in fact just say "the robust security" since after you say it is
[22:41] <Captainkrtek> oh okay
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> "amount of people that use it," - end the sentence there and start a new one
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> well..
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> hmmm
[22:42] <Rocket2DMn> i would say "number of people" not "amount".  if you want it in one sentence, use a dash instead of a comma
[22:43] <Rocket2DMn> i dont think open-source needs the dash though, it's just two words
[22:43] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:44] <Rocket2DMn> "Despite the security measures taken to ensure your installation of Linux is secure" is also repetitive, just say "Despite the measures taken..."
[22:44] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:44] <Rocket2DMn> hold on there are poliec outside my apt
[22:44] <Captainkrtek> uh oh
[22:45] <Captainkrtek> hahahaha
[22:45] <Police2DMn> :|
[22:46] <Rocket2DMn> should be alright, my neighbor downstairs has some type of mental handicap and has been carrying on, maybe somebody called the police.  not sure if they'll knock on my door, but i just wanted to put the gun away so as not to worry anyone
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> lets continue
[22:47] <Captainkrtek> hehe no problem
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> "still prone to" - not sure if prone in the right word
[22:47] <Rocket2DMn> maybe susceptible?
[22:47] <Captainkrtek> hmmm sure
[22:47] <Police2DMn> Rocket2DMn: the gun?
[22:48] <Rocket2DMn> i went shooting earlier so i left it out with the intent of cleaning it
[22:48] <Police2DMn> ah, ok. i will stand down now.
[22:48] <Rocket2DMn> i just put it back in the safe for now
[22:48] <Captainkrtek> also, what about userbase to user base?
[22:48] <Captainkrtek> or is it just one word
[22:49] <Rocket2DMn> two words is probably better
[22:49] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:50] <Captainkrtek> and the capitalization of internet?
[22:50] <Captainkrtek> should it be
[22:50] <Rocket2DMn> i dont thin it should unless its the start of a sentence or other pronoun
[22:50] <Captainkrtek> k
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> are there any links for Phishing scams?
[22:51] <Captainkrtek> I dont think so
[22:51] <Captainkrtek> I could write one later maybe
[22:51] <Captainkrtek> what about linking to external sites?
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> alright just wondering
[22:54] <Rocket2DMn> I would capitalize or otherwise markup "ssh" and "vnc"
[22:54] <Rocket2DMn> could mark them as apps
[22:54] <Captainkrtek> oh
[22:54] <Captainkrtek> yeah last night I made edits
[22:54] <Captainkrtek> forgot to save
[22:55] <Captainkrtek> oooh do we have an article on ssh?
[22:56] <Captainkrtek> hmm nope
[22:56] <Rocket2DMn> we certainly have one in the serverguide
[22:56] <Rocket2DMn> not sure if anything ships with the gnome docs though
[22:56] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[22:56] <Captainkrtek> I dont think so
[22:56] <Captainkrtek> just looked
[23:04] <Rocket2DMn> well otherwise i think it looks good Captainkrtek
[23:04] <Captainkrtek> :)
[23:04] <Captainkrtek> Ill commit for the final time
[23:04] <Captainkrtek> want me to change "candidate" to "final" ?
[23:06] <Rocket2DMn> sure
[23:07] <Captainkrtek> done, uploading
[23:07] <Captainkrtek> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1553
[23:09] <Rocket2DMn> the page doesnt validate
[23:09] <Captainkrtek> ?
[23:09] <Captainkrtek> hmm
[23:09] <Captainkrtek> let me see
[23:09] <Rocket2DMn> use check_validation.sh
[23:10] <Captainkrtek> probably a tag somewhere
[23:10] <Rocket2DMn> just feed it the filename
[23:10] <Captainkrtek> yeah tag error
[23:12] <Captainkrtek> weird...
[23:12] <Captainkrtek> all the tags look okay...
[23:13] <Captainkrtek> ahh
[23:13] <Captainkrtek> I see where
[23:13] <Rocket2DMn> man something is chewing up RAM on my computer
[23:13] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: saw your bug comment about the validation script. Unfortunately the output is terrible
[23:13] <Captainkrtek> how much ram do you have?
[23:13] <Rocket2DMn> 2GB
[23:13] <Captainkrtek> custom pc?
[23:14] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, sorry for all the bugmail with tagging
[23:14] <Captainkrtek> K it validates now
[23:14] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, which comment is that again?
[23:14] <mdke> Even
[23:14] <mdke> the validation checker can be confusing when it spits out a problem, I
[23:14] <mdke> spent a full five minutes trying to track down a silly problem today
[23:14] <mdke> when it told me the document was invalid, and it was a small document at
[23:14] <mdke> that.
[23:15] <Rocket2DMn> ah yeah
[23:15] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~steven.richards/+junk/gnome-help/revision/1554
[23:15] <Captainkrtek> forgot  </p></item> tags
[23:16] <Rocket2DMn> FF is chewing up 850MB!
[23:16] <Captainkrtek> get chromium :D
[23:16] <Rocket2DMn> some plugin must be leaking
[23:17] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, standby while i fix my memory issue, i keep swapping
[23:17] <Captainkrtek> no problem
[23:17] <jbicha> how many tabs do you have going?
[23:17] <jbicha> Chromium uses more memory than Firefox
[23:17] <Captainkrtek> I have 28 tabs open in Chrome
[23:17] <Captainkrtek> running fine haha
[23:18] <Rocket2DMn> i may need to reinstall my plugins since i installed a 64 bit system using an old 32 bit home directory
[23:19] <mdke> does anyone by any chance understand debian packaging?
[23:20] <Captainkrtek> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ ?
[23:20] <mdke> I mean does anyone in the channel already know debian packaging?
[23:21] <Captainkrtek> I don't sorry :/
[23:21] <jbicha> I know some
[23:21] <mdke> I'm playing with a package of ubuntu-docs for oneiric
[23:22] <mdke> I want to remove the browser homepage because it isn't used anymore (except for epiphany, where I expect a new solution to be implemented)
[23:22] <Rocket2DMn> i was just looking at that bug mdke , still showing 10.10 :)
[23:22] <mdke> there is a weird system of update-alternatives in place
[23:23] <mdke> and I need to remove that
[23:23] <Rocket2DMn> do we have oneiric branches now?
[23:23] <Captainkrtek> I didn't see any when I checked the other day
[23:23] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I have one locally but it will take a long time to upload it...
[23:23] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, i'm in no hurry, i'd rather get as much hammered out in the natty branches as we can first
[23:23] <Rocket2DMn> we still have planning to do anyway
[23:23] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, Im going to get back to work on the outdated docs
[23:23] <mdke> jbicha: so I'm trying an "ubuntu-docs.preinst" as follows: http://paste.ubuntu.com/601499/
[23:24] <jbicha> sometimes they get upset if we don't put the stuff in O first if we're doing a SRU
[23:24] <mdke> jbicha: but I'm way out of my depth so figures I would ask
[23:24] <mdke> exactly, that is the reason I'm looking at it
[23:24] <jbicha> I'm probably out of my depth too but I'll look
[23:24] <mdke> thx
[23:24] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, ok, i just grabbed your branch.  i'll have one last look and commit it
[23:25] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, thanks!
[23:25] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, in the future, when new pages are added you need to add them to the makefile (see check_makefile.sh).  i'll take care of tihs one though
[23:25] <Captainkrtek> oh okay
[23:25] <Captainkrtek> never learned that
[23:25] <Captainkrtek> Ill commit that now
[23:26] <Captainkrtek> the Makefile.am right?
[23:27] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, yeah, i already added it in my checkout
[23:27] <Captainkrtek> okay
[23:27] <Captainkrtek> will make sure to do next time :)
[23:27] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, are you going to keep working out of this branch?
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> yeah I think from now on
[23:28] <Rocket2DMn> ok, it may be OK for a bit, go ahead and add the makefile entry then so we're on the same page
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> already done
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> ./check_makefile.sh
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> 138a139
[23:28] <Captainkrtek> > net-security-tips.page
[23:29] <Rocket2DMn> commit/push please :)
[23:29] <Captainkrtek> k
[23:29] <Rocket2DMn> i'll take your version of it so we dont conflict in future merges
[23:29] <Captainkrtek> bzr add makefile.am right?
[23:30] <Rocket2DMn> no the makefile is already there, in the parent directory
[23:30] <Captainkrtek> the one in gnome-help or natty
[23:30] <Rocket2DMn> gnome-help
[23:30] <Captainkrtek> k
[23:30] <Captainkrtek> hmm...
[23:30] <Rocket2DMn> just add it below the net-security.page line
[23:31] <mdke> careful to add the slash
[23:31] <mdke> otherwise everything breaks :)
[23:31] <Rocket2DMn> boom
[23:31] <mdke> it's a very fragile system!
[23:31] <Captainkrtek> looks good I think...
[23:31] <Captainkrtek> commiting
[23:32] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, no such thing as a sturdy build system
[23:32] <Captainkrtek> pushin
[23:32] <mdke> guess not
[23:33] <Rocket2DMn> yeah its what happens when you want things t obe configurable
[23:33] <Rocket2DMn> however, you're not a true member of any dev team until you break the build :)
[23:33] <mdke> I'd better upload straight away then
[23:34] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, K, check my branch again
[23:34] <Captainkrtek> 1555 is the revision
[23:34] <Rocket2DMn> lol mdke , it means you have the buy the drinks though
[23:34] <mdke> hmm
[23:34] <mdke> ok I'll test it
[23:35] <jbicha> mdke: that commands removes the alternative so I guess it's right
[23:35] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, you see the files-share commit I did yesterday?
[23:35] <jbicha> yes and I meant to get to it by now
[23:35] <Captainkrtek> okay cool
[23:36] <Captainkrtek> there are some docs i want to work on just waiting for that commit to be made so I don't get all messed up in my branch
[23:36] <mdke> Captainkrtek: you can create a new branch for each piece of work you do. If you work in a shared repository, it should be all pretty fast
[23:37] <mdke> Captainkrtek: each time your branch gets merged, just discard it
[23:37] <Captainkrtek> okay
[23:37] <Captainkrtek> I have done that a few times already haha
[23:37] <jbicha> what's the syntax for making new branches like that?
[23:38] <jbicha> or can you point to the help page for that
[23:38] <Captainkrtek> bzr push lp:~steven.richards/+junk/BRANCHNAME
[23:38] <Captainkrtek> replace ~steven.richards with your nick
[23:38] <mdke> start a shared repo: mkdir gnome-user-docs; cd gnome-user-docs; bzr init-repo .
[23:38] <Captainkrtek> oh thought you meant a launchpad repo
[23:38] <mdke> get the main branch bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty natty
[23:39] <mdke> start a new branch each time: bzr branch natty sound-work
[23:39] <mdke> start a new branch each time: bzr branch natty hardware-work
[23:39] <mdke> etc
[23:39] <mdke> pushing them to Launchpad is a bit of a pain right now though
[23:39] <Captainkrtek> mdke, worked fine for me
[23:39] <mdke> it's slow
[23:39] <Captainkrtek> not that bad
[23:39] <mdke> because Launchpad uses the upstream Gnome branch as the default stacking branch
[23:39] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, it is committed
[23:39] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, thanks!
[23:40] <mdke> when we move over to the ubuntu-docs project and set the oneiric branch as the main branch, sending new branches will be very fast, because bzr doesn't send all the revision history
[23:40] <mdke> just the new stuff in a particular branch
[23:40] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, no problem, thanks for your work man
[23:41] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, same to you! I'm new here
[23:41] <Captainkrtek> I come from the Android community
[23:41] <Rocket2DMn> oh you're one of those heathens!
[23:41] <Captainkrtek> hahahaha
[23:41] <Rocket2DMn> ;)
[23:41] <Captainkrtek> I develop ROMs and apps
[23:42] <Rocket2DMn> thats cool, ive only done a little android development
[23:42] <Captainkrtek> and host ROMs on a server, about 4~5TB used a month 0_o
[23:43] <Captainkrtek> It might make for a good ubuntu mirror
[23:44] <Rocket2DMn> thats a lot of space
[23:44] <Captainkrtek> that's BW not space, sorry
[23:45] <Captainkrtek> my friend owns a DC, got me a good deal on a nice box
[23:49] <mdke> hmm, no this isn't quite working
[23:50] <mdke> I will have to solicit some -devel help I think
[23:56] <Rocket2DMn> hmm guess ill have to install lucid on a vm now
[23:57] <Captainkrtek> what's up Rocket2DMn ?
[23:59] <Rocket2DMn> well i need a lucid install in order to check some things from time to time
[23:59] <Rocket2DMn> since i was in lucid before i didnt need a vm :)
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> ahh
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> same here
[23:59] <Captainkrtek> getting tired of the unity launcher popping up :/