[01:42] <bazhang> flare183 is a unity developer?
[01:45] <IdleOne> bazhang: I would imagine a dev would know the proper channel name for the dev team
[01:46] <Flannel> wow, failed attempt at a DCC
[01:47] <bazhang> heh
[01:47] <bazhang> IdleOne, good point
[02:10] <IdleOne> hello praveen
[02:13] <praveen> hello
[02:14] <IdleOne> Anything we can help you with?
[02:14] <bazhang> he was sent here by the bot I'd imagine
[02:56] <Juest> hello, now i really apologize, and i reconsider to being unmuted, rules REALLY CARES!
[02:57] <Juest> where's LjL?
[02:57] <Juest> hello?
[02:59] <Juest> bazhang: are you afk?
[03:00] <Juest> hello?
[03:00] <Juest> anybody is alive or else?
[03:00] <IdleOne> Juest: give me a moment please
[03:01] <Juest> yeah, are everybody ilde?
[03:01] <IdleOne> Juest: Please be patient for one minute
[03:01] <Juest> IdleOne are you really idle? lol
[03:02] <IdleOne> Juest: why did you get banned, do you recall?
[03:02] <Juest> well, can you get the log of about two days ago
[03:03] <Juest> last log that mention me
[03:03] <Juest> and one log at 4am gmt -3
[03:03] <IdleOne> Juest: I removed the mute
[03:03] <IdleOne> !guidelines > Juest
[03:03] <IdleOne> Please read the guidelines so you don't get muted again. thank you.
[03:04] <Juest> thanks :)
[03:04] <Juest> thank you :)
[03:04] <IdleOne> Welcome, please part this channel now.
[03:04]  * Juest has already read guidelines, but he will read it one more time :)
[04:05] <Juest> ok, bye
[09:56] <bazhang> p57906E6E.dip.t-dialin.net cockkk must be larstorben
[12:45] <bazhang> !no gps is <reply> Street mapping and GPS navigation software available for Ubuntu includes Navit, MoNav (http://code.google.com/p/monav/), Gosmore (free vector maps from OSM), GpsDrive (GTK, raster maps, free), !GoogleEarth (Qt, proprietary vector maps, proprietary)
[12:45] <bazhang> !gps
[12:46] <LjL> xiexie
[12:46] <bazhang> prego
[12:55] <bazhang> not really an ubuntu question ; he's the centos user
[13:02] <LjL> totem is a nice guy, if only he didn't like to troll so much =)
[13:03] <bazhang> I was referring to loseweight in #ubuntu ^
[13:03] <LjL> i know, i was just saying
[13:22] <bazhang> thisnameiscool has already been warned and removed once for asking centos questions
[13:26] <bazhang> BHXSpecter, how can we help you
[13:29] <BHXSpecter> hold checking something
[13:44] <BHXSpecter> yesterday I updated my router frimware and changed too port 8001 and passed the test yesterday but I'm still getting told I'm banned from #ubuntu
[13:44] <LjL> BHXSpecter: let me check
[13:44] <LjL> BHXSpecter: try asking for a test now please
[13:45] <LjL> BHXSpecter: you should be able to join now
[13:46] <BHXSpecter> ok thanks :) don't know what happened yesterday
[13:46] <LjL> no idea either
[13:46] <LjL> the bots didn't realize you were banned, for some reason
[13:47] <BHXSpecter> thanks again
[13:50] <bazhang> LjL, any idea how he got around the ban?
[13:51] <LjL> bazhang: IP he's using doesn't seem banned - but also, webchat users can *join* even if their IP is banned. they just can't speak.
[13:52] <LjL> that has to happen since we got rid of #Ubuntu-proxy-users
[13:52] <bazhang> LjL, okay so he's muted then
[13:53] <bazhang> well prior to my ban of that particular gateway
[13:53] <LjL> bazhang: basically. webchat is muted by default, then people who join get a +e, unless they are banned, in which case they don't
[13:54] <bazhang> LjL, okay, well I said floodbot saying banned user could not join, but the he joined nonetheless
[13:54] <bazhang> and removing him a second time, the floodbot did not ban as customary
[13:54] <LjL> hmm i will change that message to explain better what's going on now
[13:54] <LjL> well i didn't see their IP on the banlist but maybe the floodbot looked better
[13:55] <bazhang> at this rate the banlist will be filled by tomorrow
[13:58] <bazhang> LjL, thanks
[13:58] <LjL> removing floodbot-set bans to make space
[14:17] <bazhang> [LALALALA__] ban evading in -ot for the nth time
[14:36] <ikonia> gone
[14:43] <ikonia> what's the deal with waxrose_ ?
[14:43] <bazhang> testing nerves
[14:43] <ikonia> why ?
[14:43] <bazhang> who knows
[14:47] <ikonia> LALALALA__ pm'ing me telling me he's lars partner, and he's going to a lawer to get Lars unbanned as he did nothing wrong
[14:49] <Tm_T> you mean lawyer?
[14:50] <ikonia> I did
[15:55] <IdleOne> better get your best suit pressed.
[16:12] <mneptok> especially if they're going to press a suit.
[18:43] <LjL> @mark #ubuntu rgr Often gives people generic Google queries for help, at least three people have already complained about the way he offers help
[18:47] <IdleOne> LjL: How do you suggest we address the issue with him?
[18:48] <LjL> i suggest doing nothing for now
[18:48] <IdleOne> but looking at scroll back I did see him basically tell people to google it a few times
[18:49] <LjL> but he was told not to do it by several people, and i pointed how to him and maybe they're right, he hasn't replied. let's see if he does it again, and to what extent (i do agree with him that giving google keywords might be reasonable in some cases... about unmounting a partition, though, meh, much easier for everyone to say "sudo umount /blah")
[18:51] <IdleOne> Well if he was giving a link that he googled to the user and told them to read that info I wouldn't mind so much. but telling people to search for term xyz is not always intuitive to the user.
[18:51] <jrib> brilliant (in #ubuntu)
[18:51] <IdleOne> least it was hugs
[18:51] <IdleOne> :/
[18:53] <LjL> IdleOne: in the instance i saw he did give a link. problem is, that link was to "unmount drive from cli ubuntu" (or something like that), and the top links weren't really very informative at all. compare to my link to "encrypt partitions site:help.ubuntu.com" i gave yesterday
[18:54]  * LjL gives jrib one of his cookies, waits for medical signs before eating them himself
[18:55]  * jrib eats cookie anyway
[18:55] <LjL> daring
[19:07] <ikonia> not for me
[19:07] <IdleOne> not for you?
[19:08] <ikonia> that link
[19:08] <IdleOne> oh
[19:09] <IdleOne> wouldn't bootchart in the repos do the same thing?
[19:12] <ikonia> I guess so
[19:15] <ckw> I'm not a fan of this new "don't let people join if they might have the dcc exploit" policy
[19:15] <ikonia> it's not new
[19:15] <ckw> I'm on a shaky connection, and it gets triggered whenever the connection happens to drop and I reconnect
[19:15] <ckw> Even though my settings are fine
[19:16] <ckw> How long has it been around? I've only had it affecting me recently
[19:16] <ikonia> quite a long time, over a year
[19:16] <IdleOne> ckw: least 3 years that I can remember
[19:16] <IdleOne> maybe I am remembering wrong but quite a long time
[19:17] <ckw> Hrm... That's really strange then
[19:17] <IdleOne> ckw: I believe yesterday was the last time someone used that dcc exploit in #ubuntu you probably got caught by it
[19:17] <ckw> I'd like to say nothing has changed on my end (besides my connection + update to 11.04) so it is a problem with your bot/freenode, but I'm not so sure
[19:18] <ckw> Thanks
[19:20] <IdleOne> ckw: you went to the link provided in #ubuntu-read-topic and had the bot test you
[19:20] <gord> ikonia?
[19:21] <ikonia> gord: was going to test something but messed it up
[19:21] <IdleOne> lol
[19:21] <IdleOne> no problem
[19:21] <gord> plz to no dcc rpms :)
[19:21] <ikonia> it's good......install it......trust me
[19:21] <IdleOne> sure
[19:21]  * IdleOne blindly installs anything ikonia tells me
[19:22] <IdleOne> :P
[19:22] <ikonia> good
[19:22] <IdleOne> I got dcc set to refuse all file offers
[19:22] <Daviey> ikonia: wtf, 19:19 [freenode] DCC SEND from ikonia [94.76.229.70 port 60381]: irssi-0.8.10a-4.el5.rf.x86_64.rpm [1MB bytes] requested in channel #ubuntu-ops ?
[19:22] <jrib> heh
[19:22] <ikonia> Daviey: sorry about that see above
[19:22] <IdleOne> hahaha you dcc'ed the entire channel
[19:22] <jrib> it's special ikonia-enhanced version
[19:22] <ikonia> jrib: maybe....
[19:22] <Daviey> ahh, !blamegord.
[19:26] <IdleOne> !blamegord
[19:26] <IdleOne> :(
[19:27] <IdleOne> I imagine that factoid would not be CoC compliant anyway
[19:36] <ohsix> hi, rgr on #ubuntu is being constantly offtopic and badgering people, generally not offering any assistance at all for all the lines he seems to have in my buffer; and is beligerent about it as well
[19:36] <IdleOne> ohsix: Thanks for the heads up. We will keep an eye open. If you see any more issues please let us know :)
[19:37] <ohsix> it's been 2 days now,  but i'll keep that in mind
[19:37] <ohsix> thanks
[20:08] <LjL> eh, ohsix now being over the top trying to bash rgr... sighs
[20:08] <ikonia> rgr has been a pain for a few days, I've spoke to him a few times and cut him a lot of slack
[20:09] <IdleOne> I think ohsix has caught rgr making a couple of mistakes
[20:09] <IdleOne> in regards to answers being correct
[20:10] <LjL> mistakes are human, and also while i haven't caught up with the scrollback entirely, it seems that saying "try lxr, then if you don't like it there's other possibilities if you google 'linux source code'"... well, that's not too bad
[20:10] <LjL> well mistakes are not human, just making them is
[20:10] <LjL> except for me, i'm a human mistake
[20:11] <ikonia> I don't mind the mistakes
[20:13] <IdleOne> hah I read that as I don't make mistakes the first time
[20:31]  * LjL rolls eyes at rgr&ohsix
[20:36] <LjL> queried ohsix, told him to slow down on the picking on rgr, that we're keeping an eye on him but he shouldn't bash him for every single thing he does
[20:38] <ikonia> rgr is not helping himself
[20:38] <LjL> neither is actionparsnip now
[20:39] <ikonia> I know
[20:39] <IdleOne> This is tiresome
[20:39] <ikonia> it's going to end now
[20:52] <ikonia> 52 -!- agasdsadsasaaaaa [~agasdsads@p57906B2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left
[20:52] <ActionParsnip> yo
[20:53] <ohsix> do i have to accept the terms of service of this channel to comply with your request? the onjoin says i do
[20:53]  * LjL checks the onjoin
[20:53] <IdleOne> ohsix: the terms are the same as using #ubuntu
[20:53] <ohsix> IdleOne: ok
[20:53] <IdleOne> you already have accepted :)
[20:53] <LjL> oh yeah ohsix those terms of service are for all ubuntu channels :P
[20:53] <ohsix> well, those agreements are unenforcable but not worth digressing
[20:54] <ohsix> at least in legal terms ;] ops can enforce them
[20:54] <LjL> ohsix: yeah it's a bit silly in my opinion but i think the canonical legal team advised us to have them, or something
[20:54] <ohsix> right
[20:54] <ohsix> onto the larting
[20:54] <ohsix> i think it's notable rgr chose not to join us fwiw
[20:54] <LjL> i'm not going to lart anyone, i'd just like to clear up the "support" definition
[20:54] <LjL> yeah well...
[20:54] <ohsix> he set the flames
[20:55] <LjL> "supported" does mean a few different things depending on context, i think
[20:55]  * ActionParsnip listens
[20:55] <LjL> something may be "supported" by upstream, "supported" by Canonical, "supported" by the Ubuntu community or "supported" by #ubuntu
[20:55] <LjL> those often overlap but in general they may easily not
[20:55] <ohsix> on the irc channel i "support" anything in the repos, and often things that are not, and configurations users aren't expected to touch, when i used the term support to refer to the packages i meant who maintained them, who handles bugs for them; and the importance of the package
[20:55] <LjL> so obviously both Chromium (or perhaps rather Chrome) and Firefox are supported by upstream
[20:55] <LjL> Firefox is supported by Canonical, Chromium is not
[20:56] <LjL> Chromium is supported by the community, by being in universe
[20:56] <ActionParsnip> but the chromim-browser is in the official repos
[20:56] <LjL> and both are supported by #ubuntu, because we support packages in main and in universe
[20:56] <ohsix> even if they didn't support it by it being in main, firefox is more supported directly by the primary maintainers of the software, it's not a third party build of something else
[20:56] <ActionParsnip> so the irc channel supports it, right?
[20:56] <LjL> other parts of the Ubuntu community, however, might possibly not support Chromium
[20:56] <LjL> ActionParsnip: i'd say so
[20:56] <LjL> ohsix: oh it is a third party build
[20:56] <ActionParsnip> and firfox is in on the same servers and is supported by the irc channel, right?
[20:56] <LjL> ohsix: the .deb package is not the same binary the Mozilla provides
[20:56] <ohsix> i weigh the abilities for the maintainer to be able to handle my bug reports or elevate them and have them considered
[20:57] <LjL> ActionParsnip: yes
[20:57] <ohsix> LjL: i know, and about the trademark covenent, i just meant it's not someone taking firefox; and a handful of people providing an alternate build, they largely won't handle bugs given to them and might not even be taken seriously by the people they're cribbing from
[20:57] <ActionParsnip> ljl: so both aresupported equally by the irc channel as both are packages installable by users by adding no PPAs, they are BOTH canonical certified
[20:57] <ActionParsnip> ljl: that's what I'm saying
[20:57] <ohsix> and i'm talking about a lot more than chromium, so don't take it as a dig against its legitimacy
[20:58] <LjL> ohsix, thing is we don't really care in #ubuntu what the upstream supports or doesn't, unless we decide to deprecate it ourselves. we still assume someone is doing their best to support it *in the channel*
[20:58] <LjL> ActionParsnip: wait no, i don't think you can call chromium "canonical certified"... but otherwise, yes
[20:58] <ActionParsnip> !info chromium-browser
[20:59] <ActionParsnip> 10.0.648.205~r81283-0ubuntu1 0
[20:59] <ActionParsnip>         500 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty/universe i386 Packages
[20:59] <ActionParsnip> andy@D
[20:59] <LjL> ActionParsnip: now i don't have my original /etc/apt/sources.list handy, but i do believe there is a comment explaining that it's "not supported"
[20:59] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: ?
[20:59] <ActionParsnip> so unles someone hacked in and added the package, it has been added by the package team / canonical
[20:59] <IdleOne> ActionParsnip: they way I see it any package that is in either main,multiverse,universe are supported in #ubuntu. as for certification by canonical that is a different story.
[21:00] <ActionParsnip> IdleOne: exactly
[21:00] <LjL> ActionParsnip: well package team (MOTU) is not Canonical, that's what i'm saying
[21:00] <LjL> Canonical doesn't certify packages in Universe
[21:00] <ohsix> LjL: i'm elaborating on my use of the word "supported" to clear up the apparent confusion, i still "Support" in the sense of #ubuntu, that it's in the repos, it is still "less supported" with regards to the points that i take into account when making that latter judgement
[21:00] <ActionParsnip> ljl: sure, but its still equally supported i #ubuntu, which is what I'm saying
[21:01] <IdleOne> not supported in the sources.list refers to Canonical not providing any support for those packages but they are maintained by the community.
[21:01] <IdleOne> I have to run. later gators
[21:01] <ohsix> LjL: re: not supported in sources.list, you're correct; most people don't see that though, they see software-properties-(gtk|kde), and the mouseover tooltip does say something to that effect, but most people are just enabling it because they are told to, and don't read either
[21:03] <ActionParsnip> if its on the ubuntu repos (not a ppa) it gets equal love in #ubuntu
[21:04] <ohsix> not by me
[21:04] <ohsix> i will support a package less in universe if i don't know personally that the maintainer will be receptive, or that my bugs won't be a waste of time
[21:04] <ohsix> it often doesn't come to that, but it is where it's different in my calculations
[21:04] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: shame
[21:05] <ohsix> who are you to cast aspersions? my position is very reasonable
[21:05] <ohsix> and i've even said what my reasons were
[21:05] <ohsix> i still "support" users that use software anywhere in the repos
[21:05] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: chromium is anywhere in the repos....
[21:06] <ikonia> guys, simple solution, if you want to support a package/problem, do it, if not, don't
[21:06] <LjL> ohsix, of course it's fine if you don't want to support something
[21:06] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: i'm beginning to believe you're willingly misinterpreting what i've explained
[21:06] <LjL> ohsix: the line is when someone starts saying "no, you can't ask about this, it is not supported"
[21:06] <ohsix> LjL: something that i did not say,  but noted
[21:06] <LjL> ohsix: no, just saying
[21:06] <ohsix> and would not say, i might add
[21:07] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: any package i any of the repos is ontopic for the channel, so is "supported"
[21:07] <ohsix> "will not support" is often my opinion, and only at the limits of what i can, regardless of if it's in the repos
[21:07] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: that is what i said
[21:07] <LjL> ActionParsnip: oh is saying that they will "support" a user's system if the user has installed Chromium (as opposed to installing something from a random PPA), but will not support Chromium *itself*, i think
[21:07] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: i did not say it was offtopic, i talked about relative support, not channel & user support
[21:07] <LjL> ActionParsnip: it is "supported", yes, that doesn't mean ohsix *has* to support it
[21:07] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: so one isn't less supported as they are both ontopic
[21:07] <ohsix> it does not mean i can either
[21:08] <ActionParsnip> LjL: oh totally, nobody has to support anything
[21:08] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: one is less supported, indeed; you are confusing the two uses of the sense of the word in play here
[21:08] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: true, its your free will
[21:08] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: i explained both senses of my use of the word above, please try and read and understand it
[21:08] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: i mean simply what is ontopic and offtopic, if that makes it clearer
[21:08] <LjL> meanwhile, in #ubuntu
[21:08] <LjL> rgr is up with sgxfi or however it's spelled again
[21:09] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: i didn't say it was offtopic, merely less supported in my use of the term; and not officially endorsed in rgr's sense of delivering his opinion
[21:09] <LjL> well
[21:09] <LjL> if rgr had come here, i'd have told you that it's much better not to say that anything is "recommended" until, well, it is
[21:10] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: i'm keeping it to the term and what is ontopic in the channel, that is what is key
[21:10] <LjL> "it is my opinion that..." is one thing, "recommended" is another
[21:10] <LjL> s/you/him/
[21:10] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: what's on topic doesn't even come into play
[21:11] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: rgr constantly offering his opinion as fact and no assistance is what is offtopic
[21:11] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: sure it does, that  channel cannot support 3rd party apps not on the ubuntu servers
[21:11] <ohsix> but that's neither here nor there
[21:11] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: they can't? i have
[21:11] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: true
[21:11] <ActionParsnip> ohsix: then thats fine but they are technically offtopic as they are 3rd party
[21:11] <ActionParsnip> gotta go washup kids, bbl :)
[21:11] <LjL> see you
[21:12] <LjL> ActionParsnip: please part here if you're leaving, you know how it works
[21:12] <ohsix> don't conflate "can't" with your personal inability to do so, if i can and am willing i sometimes will, but i take that as my responsibility, and if it comes to an impasse i tell them that nobody else in #ubuntu can be expected to offer further assistance
[21:12] <LjL> ommon sense is the key
[21:12] <LjL> key-ommon sense
[21:12] <ohsix> it is afterall linux, as long as someone isn't doing something that trashes all their package manager tracked files, or they've already done it without any help of mine; i'll help them
[21:13] <ohsix> ugh i hate the term "common sense", it's a cliche for "think like i do"
[21:13] <ohsix> people think differently and those differences can be explained, no need to wash over it with "common sense", unless lowest common denominator where nobody really knows anything is adequate
[21:13] <LjL> ok
[21:13] <LjL> then forget about common sense
[21:14] <LjL> just think like i do :)
[21:15] <ohsix> i appreciate that given time you'd have the ability to articulate your point more clearly; it's just a pet peeve of mine, people use it too easily and communicate poorly
[21:15] <LjL> ohsix: in my view "common sense" means not everything you do has to be justified by a rule
[21:15] <LjL> there's not an exact rule saying you can support off-repo software, and neither there is one that says you can't
[21:16] <LjL> so it's basically up to you and if someone doesn't like what you're doing you need to deal with it yourself in some way, without resorting to the rules
[21:16] <ohsix> oh ok, that's a good point to just make, as it's being understood
[21:16] <LjL> that's what "common sense" means to me
[21:16] <ohsix> *misunderstood
[21:20] <LjL> now to the part i don't like - namely if we're finished here for now, i have to ask you to leave the channel because it's how this channel works :\
[21:21] <ohsix> no u that's offtopic omg
[21:21] <LjL> heh
[21:21] <ohsix> ActionParsnip: if we have a meta disagreement that stems from our differening perspective, we should speak with eachother not the channel
[21:22] <LjL> ^
[21:40] <LjL> [22:39:56] --> nbf has joined this channel (~tmccrary@unaffiliated/noobfukaire). <--- old troll, i believe, i have them on violet hilight ;)
[21:44] <LjL> gee i will really have to try out this Multiply thing if i want to be any use in #ubuntu these days
[21:52] <LjL> from now on i'll start throwing mutes, seriously
[21:54] <LjL> jrib: i want my cookie back
[21:54] <jrib> :(
[21:54] <jrib> I'm not sure you'd like it very much in its current state
[21:55] <jrib> "Multiply"?
[21:55] <LjL> jrib: yeah Unify, whatever it's called, i can't remember!
[21:55] <LjL> maybe Dividity
[21:55] <jrib> oh
[22:16] <LjL> meh
[22:33] <bazhang> divinity
[22:36] <Jordan_U> A product of divide intervention?
[22:51] <Corey> ikonia: Time for me to DCC you a badger.
[22:53] <ikonia> please do
[23:13] <bazhang> Juest is being trying
[23:15] <Jordan_U> Not that he would be any less trying if it were, but is lilo even supported in Ubuntu? It's in main so I guess it must be...
[23:15] <bazhang> he wants grub and lilo? and for gnome to be fixed?
[23:16] <ikonia> ??
[23:17] <Jordan_U> bazhang: The asking about the grub config was a retorical question meant as a complaint, as far as I can tell.
[23:18] <bazhang> Jordan_U, hard to fathom that, as he is asking very precise questions about where grub stores things. he's all over the map with requests
[23:30] <guntbert> can someone have a good look at juest in #ubuntu? he seems to be trolling.  Jumping from topic to topic, never giving straight answers,...
[23:31] <Jordan_U> He's now added "how to use sysv"...
[23:31] <ikonia> yes
[23:31] <Jordan_U> This seems to match the pattern of another troll that has been banned, can't remember the nick though.
[23:31] <guntbert> please - he is sucking up a good portion of support forces atm
[23:32] <bazhang> juest was muted before
[23:32] <ikonia> I agree
[23:32] <ikonia> it will stop
[23:32] <guntbert> thx
[23:32] <bazhang> time for a ban imo
[23:32] <guntbert> bye
[23:32] <ikonia> let him respond, but his comments will stop unless he can actually formulate a support request
[23:33] <bazhang> I just PM'd Juest
[23:33] <ikonia> he "uninstalled" lilo - it doesn't just get removed from the mbr, so I don't believe what he's saying
[23:33] <LjL> probably my fault he's unbanned in the first place
[23:33] <LjL> i removed the bans set by floodbots earlier
[23:33] <LjL> because the list was getting full
[23:34] <ikonia> shame on you
[23:34] <LjL> and since he's using a gateway (or at least was, haven't checked now), the ban was by the floodbots
[23:36] <bazhang> LjL, no
[23:36] <bazhang> he was quieted by me, and that was it.
[23:36] <LjL> he had very nice words for you
[23:37] <ikonia> ?
[23:37] <LjL> http://ubottu.com/bans.cgi?log=39491
[23:37] <Jordan_U> The behavior seems awefully familiar to me. I'm sure there have been multiple bans of a single person for this MO.
[23:42] <Jordan_U> ikonia: Is there more history behind that kick?
[23:42] <ikonia> Jordan_U: no, it was a bad decision based on a jumbled response, I've already pm'd him to explain
[23:42] <Jordan_U> OK.
[23:53] <bazhang> okay, Juest knows 100% clearly about how to clarify, stay on topic etc.
[23:54] <bazhang> just had a lengthy PM with him (he's -ar btw)