[00:01] <igitihi> penguin42: What if I boot into a mini_Linux using this cd? Could you help me with the terminal commands?
[00:01] <penguin42> igitihi: No, if you can boot into your installed Ubuntu then I might be able to help
[00:02] <igitihi> penguin42: Unfortunately I can't. Thanks anyway!
[00:04] <jacobw> Mez: have a look at 'incognito' by david eagleman
[00:08] <igitihi> penguin42: Hey, I managed to boot into Ubuntu!
[00:08] <igitihi> penguin42: How do I restore the grub now?
[00:09] <penguin42> igitihi: Try running update-grub and see if that manages it
[00:09] <penguin42> although I'm not sure that will actually reinstall it if needed
[00:09] <jacobw> update-grub will do that
[00:10] <igitihi> let's see...
[00:11] <igitihi> hmmm... nope, I get an irrelevant grub menu which lists older ubuntu versions that simply don't exist anymore!
[00:12] <penguin42> hey?
[00:12] <igitihi> since both OS are intact, is there a way to build a new grub menu so that I can use both?
[00:14] <penguin42> grub-install should do a basic install of grub, and I would have thought doing an update-grub after that should find your other OS
[00:15] <igitihi> Here's the problem: I can boot into ubuntu using the superGrub cd. When I boot form the hard disk, I get a boot menu that points to older versions of ubuntu than my current one and so I can't boot
[00:16] <igitihi> I think the mbr is messed up. Any ideas to get it right?
[00:16] <jacobw> if the mbr was messed up you wouldn't get to grub
[00:17] <igitihi> but I get to a wrong bersion of grub (apparently) that points to other versions of Ubuntu than the existing one
[00:18] <penguin42> igitihi: update-grub should update all that to be the ubuntu you have installed - that is assuming you've booted into the ubuntu installation you think you have
[00:19] <igitihi> that's what I did, I booted into 9.10
[00:19] <igitihi> but the menu I get when I boot from the hard disk points to 8.04!
[00:19] <igitihi> and doesn't work of course
[00:20] <igitihi> so, my ubuntu partition is there and works fine but I just can't boot into it normally
[00:33] <gord> http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wsdatap/v3r8m1/index.jsp?topic=/xs40/convertingbetweenjsonandjsonx05.htm - haaaaaaaaaah hahaha - ibm is funny!
[01:03] <zerosumgame> keep getting a fetch error when trying to upgrade, anyone else getting that error too?
[01:11] <zerosumgame>  http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/x/xulrunner-2.0/xulrunner-2.0-mozjs_2.0+nobinonly-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[01:12] <zerosumgame> it says i dont have permission to access
[02:15] <Oli``> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHuiDD_oTk
[02:25] <hamitron> damn it
[02:25] <hamitron> cat is been sick after eating slugs
[02:35] <Azelphur> hamitron: why did your cat eat slugs?
[02:35] <hamitron> I dunno
[02:35] <hamitron> it eats silver fish too
[02:35] <Azelphur> you should probably talk to your cat about that. :p
[02:35] <hamitron> :))
[02:37] <hamitron> my rail to volcano nearly done
[02:37] <hamitron> not sure if to sleep or complete it :/
[02:38] <Azelphur> rail volcano?
[02:39] <hamitron> my volcano in minecraft now has a train station in it
[02:39] <hamitron> :)
[02:39] <Azelphur> fun :D
[02:55] <hamitron> it is done and works
[02:55] <hamitron> :)
[02:56] <hamitron> nn o/
[04:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] My Dream Ubuntu One Feature - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/30/my-dream-ubuntu-one-feature/
[06:17] <knightwise> morning !
[06:54] <knightwise> hey GingerDog
[06:54] <knightwise> morning to ya
[07:04]  * MartijnVdS plays some spachechem
[07:04] <MartijnVdS> spacechem*
[09:02] <dwatkins> Good morning folks
[09:07] <jibadeeha> morning dwatkins
[09:34] <MooDoo> morning all
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:42]  * MartijnVdS fills up the kettle
[09:43] <MooDoo> milk 2 please :)
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> *shudder*
[10:30] <jonsaint> hi all. is there any reason why my pc is telling me its going to take about 7hs to download the new release?
[10:30] <Guest64803> because its 700MB in size
[10:30] <Guest64803> for the cd iso anyhow
[10:31] <scoundrel50a> hi, got a problem, with Natty installation, its the appearance. I like the Mac4Lin Theme, with the controls on the left of the screen. Now, when the window is Maximized, in the top bar, it shows the controls on the left, but if you Minimize the window, it shows the control buttons on the right, how can I get it to stay on the left. Plus, is Mac4Lin have support from Natty?
[10:31] <jonsaint> but ive had others before and its took no time, especially since i got 50 meg download speed
[10:31] <Guest64803> have you tried running in classic mode scoundrel50a?
[10:31] <Guest64803> try connecting to a different server, some of them are slooooow
[10:32] <scoundrel50a> not yet, I will give it a go now, what do you want me to look out for when I try looking in classic mode
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> jonsaint: try getting the .torrent, it'll be loads faster
[10:32] <jonsaint> cheers
[10:32] <Guest64803> unity will bet at the top level in ubuntu mode, unity isnt enabled in classic
[10:33] <scoundrel50a> ok, rebooting now, I'll msee what it looks like
[10:33] <Guest64803> you could have logged out and selected from the window manage selection menu :)
[10:35] <scoundrel50a> oh, I didnt know that its now rebooted, much better, I do prefere the classic view, yay, and dropbox is back,
[10:36] <scoundrel50a> I'll see if I can get Mac4Lin working again now
[10:38] <Guest64803> :)
[10:40] <scoundrel50a> yay, got my Mac look back, brilliant. Thank you
[10:40] <Guest64803> cool :) enjoy!
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> uhrm
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> Unity isn't mac look enough? :)
[10:41] <Guest64803> true
[10:41] <Guest64803> each to there own i guess, one of the wonderful thing to free/libre and open source software... can do with it what you want :)
[10:41] <jibadeeha> unity looks nothing like mac
[10:42] <Guest64803> its similar wouldnt you say jibadeeha?
[10:42] <jibadeeha> okay i retract that statement after thinking about the global menu
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> and the dock
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> or whatever it's called in unity
[10:43] <Guest64803> did you all upgrade on thursday?
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> I upgraded months a go
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> ago*
[10:43] <Guest64803> to 11.04?
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> Yeah, the development version
[10:44] <Guest64803> me too :)
[10:44] <scoundrel50a> ok, I suppose what I meant was the Mac4Lin theme I liked, I dont know much about Mac software, have used it a few times, but itsw this theme I like, plus, I like my FDropbox icon in view
[10:46] <scoundrel50a> In Maverick, you have the option in appearances of choosing visual effects, in Natty, that option isnt there. How can you work out what visual effects you can get on you computer without it?
[10:51] <Pendulum> morning
[10:52] <Guest64803> are you using compiz scoundrel50a?
[11:01] <scoundrel50a> I dont think so, I'll see if its installed.
[11:07] <scoundrel50a> ok, got compiz installed and working, brilliant thank you. :)
[11:07] <kaushal> Hi
[11:08] <kaushal> Can someone please guide me about Networking Issues ?
[11:08] <kaushal> is this the right place ?
[11:12] <kvarley>  kaushal: Please state your problem, then if anybody knows how to solve your problem they will answer you. :)
[11:12] <kaushal> kvarley: sure
[11:13] <kaushal> I have a Networking issue between the telco and our end, telco says there is no issue at their end
[11:14] <kaushal> and blame us the issue is at our end
[11:15] <kaushal> so the issue is there is round about 20% - 30 % of packets
[11:15] <kaushal> loss
[11:15] <kvarley>  kaushal: Can you access the internet from any computer inside your network? What does you router say about your connection status? (Your router page can be accessed via a web browser if you are using a router, usually it will be http://192.168.1.1 or some other combintation)
[11:15] <kaushal> kvarley: nope
[11:16] <kaushal> its a SMPP protocol
[11:16] <kvarley>  kaushal: Networking isn't really in my field of knowledge, sorry. If you don't get a response in this channel shortly you may want to ask in #ubuntu - It's the main Ubuntu support channel and is generally more active than this LoCo
[11:18] <kaushal> kvarley: ok
[11:19] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[11:19] <kvarley> brobostigon: 0/
[11:20] <brobostigon> kvarley: o/
[11:20] <kvarley> brobostigon: hows it going?
[11:20] <brobostigon> kvarley: not bad, tired, and my mind hurts. and you?
[11:21] <kvarley> brobostigon: You need more coffee xD And not too bad, just battling with Unreal Tournament 2004 - it won't show any of my mods in the menu :/
[11:22] <brobostigon> kvarley: i have my first coffee of the day here. hmm, :( not good.
[11:22] <jibadeeha> on my second here but still in bed
[11:23] <kvarley> jibadeeha: Nice
[11:23] <kvarley> jibadeeha: I started off with an espresso, might be time for another
[11:23] <jibadeeha> i am feeling a bit worse for wear
[11:23] <jibadeeha> espresso sounds good to me - i need a shot of that
[11:27] <brobostigon> fingers crossed,  hope theyshow click on bbc news.
[11:28] <brobostigon> unlikely i reckon, :(
[11:29] <jibadeeha> what is on click?
[11:29] <brobostigon> jibadeeha: it is a technology news program.
[11:30] <jibadeeha> ah yes just wondered if there was something special on it this week
[11:31] <brobostigon> no click, :(
[11:35] <brobostigon> click got ditched again, for insignificant populerist news.
[11:39] <gord> click still exists?
[11:39] <gord> who was watching it?
[11:40] <brobostigon> me, trying to watch it, but it got ditched, for insignificant populerist claptrap.
[11:40] <gord> i might suggest that is what click was anyway ;)
[11:40] <gord> although the last time i saw it was when that older guy got replaced with some newer guy
[11:40] <brobostigon> gord: click is a good techprogram.
[12:09] <oimon> brobostigon: you like it? i've always found it pretty lame
[12:09] <oimon> MS-centric and behind the curve
[12:09] <oimon> when they make tech things mainstream they lose the tech audience and also the mainstream audience IMO
[12:10] <brobostigon> oimon: ms centric. i have pretty much, found them good at mentioning and reporting onother systems.
[12:15] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Elisabeth Sladen - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/19/elisabeth-sladen/
[13:03] <HazRPG> \o
[13:03] <popey> lo
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> \p
[13:07] <gord> whats the key combination to remove any mention of royal or wedding from my internet?
[13:10] <Pendulum> gord: the x in the corner of your browser :P
[13:13] <gord> Pendulum, aha, i'll just have to use my backup internet then *opens a directory labeled "pictures_of_funny_cats"*
[13:14] <Pendulum> :D
[13:17] <phonex01> How can i change folders and files properties of FAT23 and NTFS files through ubunt ? like changed hidden to un-hidden ?
[13:18] <nigelb> gord: hrm, you could technically write an extension that reads the content of your page and if royal wedding is found redirects to you kittens ^-^
[13:19] <gord> should be a version of adblock that does that
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> gord: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DJPFRJA-Po
[13:30] <gord> ooookay, 10.10 won't even boot
[13:43] <OmNomDeBonBon> What did everybody have for breakfast today?
[13:44] <popey> exobuzz: http://www.jonnor.com/2011/04/introducing-maliit-on-screen-keyboard-in-gnome-3/
[13:44] <popey> :)
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> popey: is that gnome shell?
[13:45] <gord> thats a nice keyboard
[13:45] <gord> MartijnVdS, the keyboard isn't, the bar at the top is
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> gord: That's what I meant, sorry
[13:45] <nigelb> gord: nothing beats Swype :)
[13:46] <exobuzz> popey, interesting. ill have to try that one
[13:46] <exobuzz> see how it compares to florence
[13:46] <gord> i stopped using my swipe like thing with the latest android, the new keyboard is great
[13:46] <nigelb> oh neat
[13:46] <nigelb> I used an iPhone and an Android phone.
[13:46] <nigelb> I had great difficulty with the iPhone keyboard
[13:47] <gord> yeah, i don't like the ipad keyboard either, others do though so iruno
[13:47] <nigelb> (which I did find odd, I thought Apple were great in UX)
[13:47] <gord> apple are great in UX, for people who like that kind of UX, but there are a lot of us that need something different, yay market choice
[13:47] <nigelb> heh
[13:50] <gord> interesting, so yeah 10.10 will install fine, but 11.04 goes insane
[13:50] <gord> must be that evil unity thing
[13:50]  * gord writes a big blog post
[13:51] <HazRPG> I is not impressed: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-tedGRcfQT4DIgUILLn1kQ?feat=directlink
[13:51] <HazRPG> that's what it looks like on the computer next to me
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what? the keyboard or unity?
[13:52] <HazRPG> hmm?
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what is "it"? :)
[13:53] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: the screenshot is of the desktop of 11.04 being blurly and unusable
[13:54] <nigelb> gord: didn't you write a few lines of code for that evil unity thing?
[13:54] <nigelb> :p
[13:54] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that's not even on a virtual machine, that's on my spare machine!
[13:54] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: blame gord
[13:54] <HazRPG> xD
[13:55] <gord> i think i'm the first guy in the commit logs for unity :)
[13:55] <nigelb> gord: exactly! a 'few' lines :p
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> nigelb: one or two
[13:55] <HazRPG> only reason I managed to get a screenshot uploaded, was because I constantly had to move windows around so that I could refresh its screen long enough to read things
[13:55] <nigelb> MartijnVdS: yeah, we don't count the zeros that come after the one or two :p
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> nigelb: zero is nothing anyway
[13:56] <nigelb> haha
[13:56] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: not in programming!
[14:00] <gord> okay, lets see how well an 10.10 upgrade to 11.04 goes, i bet it goes swimmingly
[14:05] <HazRPG> the upgrade will be fine, whether it runs properly is another issue
[14:06]  * brobostigon crosses fingers for HazRPG 
[14:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> gord - The upgrade I did on my son's PC didn't go swimmingly at all. :-(
[14:12] <gord> well this is straight, "as installed" 10.10 to 11.04 - i mean, that should be fine
[14:12] <gord> i never really trust upgrades when i change the packages
[14:25] <czajkowski> Daviey: you here
[14:57] <livingdaylight> greetings
[14:58] <brobostigon> afternoonings livingdaylight :)
[15:02] <TonyP> Hi. Does anyone know how I can get Unity running in 11.04.  It works with a live USB with beta but not after upgrade from 10.10.
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: Log out, then select it from the menu on the login screen (might only appear after selecting your user name)
[15:15] <TonyP> MartijnVds: Sorry, should have said that does not give me Unity (just a message first time about hardware)
[15:15] <MartijnVdS> what kind of graphics card do you have?
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DemystifyingUnityGraphicsHardwareRequirements
[15:16] <TonyP> ATI Radeon Xpress 200 integrated
[15:17] <TonyP> But remember, the live USB *does* give me Unity
[15:17] <MartijnVdS> check if you're using the same driver on the live usb
[15:17] <TonyP> Both seem to use 'radeon'
[15:18] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: can you run the command on that page?
[15:18] <MartijnVdS> /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
[15:19] <TonyP> Gives me 'Segmentation fault'
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> that shouldn't happen
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> it does explain why it doesn't work though
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> sounds like things weren't installed correctly/fully
[15:20] <MartijnVdS> Did it offer you to install "better drivers"?
[15:20] <TonyP> Looks like it ran OK the one time hen I first booted into 11..01
[15:20] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: Hence my question about installing other drivers :)
[15:21] <TonyP> No offer for better drivers
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: can you check if any packages matching "fglrx" are installed?
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: or even better
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: pastebin the output of "jocket-text -l"
[15:21] <MartijnVdS> sorry
[15:22] <MartijnVdS> "jockey-text -l"
[15:25] <TonyP> MartijnVdS: jockey-text -l gives me nothing. fglrx is installed.
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: System -> Administration -> Additional Drivers
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: can you open that
[15:28] <TonyP> MartijnVdS: gives me nothing
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> TonyP: it should at least ask for your password
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> and then open a window
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> it might take a while to open
[15:31] <TonyP> MartijnVdS: No just does 'searching for available drivers' then opens the window with 'No Proprietary drivers are in use on this system'
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> it really sounds like you installed "wrong" bits of a driver somewhere
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> or some GL library
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> I'm not really an expert in this area :|
[15:37] <hamitron> could it be related to someone needing to re-install ubuntu-desktop last night?
[15:38] <MartijnVdS> it could be a corrupt .so on the hard disk
[15:38] <MartijnVdS> but that would be scary
[15:38] <MartijnVdS> or corrupt RAM
[15:38] <MartijnVdS> slightly less scary, but still scaryish
[15:40] <daubers> o/
[15:41] <MartijnVdS> \o daubersman
[15:41] <daubers> popeys website seems to be nerfed
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> the front page works
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: your blog is b0rken
[15:43] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Front page doesn't work for me :(
[15:43] <TonyP> MartijnVdS: Thanks for your help for now - I'll have a look round for other stuff
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> daubers: "popey.com" works for me, static html-ish thingy
[15:43] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Ah, I had a www. in the front and that doesn't
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> ah without the www the blog also works
[15:44] <daubers> Yes :)
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: correction, it's only slightly broken :) -- with www it doesn't work, without it works fine.
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> popey: however, blog.popey.com redirects to www.popey.com/blog and is broken :)
[15:49] <brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/601343/  can someone give me a hand with the if statement please.
[15:49] <KrisDouglas> Has Google Calendar been dropped (support wise) from Evolution?
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: let me check
[15:50] <KrisDouglas> I can no longer click New>Calendar and then select Google.
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: I have "Google Calendar" as an option in the "New calendar" dialog
[15:51] <KrisDouglas> What version of Evo are you on?
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: 2.32.2-0ubuntu7
[15:51] <KrisDouglas> 2.32.2 on 11.04 doesn't give me the option
[15:51] <KrisDouglas> What the hell.
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: maybe you need evolution-plugins as well?
[15:51] <KrisDouglas> at least I'm not going insane.
[15:51] <KrisDouglas> I have those.
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> KrisDouglas: or if you have that, enable the plugin in the plugins dialog
[15:52] <KrisDouglas> waaait
[15:52]  * MartijnVdS waits
[15:53] <KrisDouglas> I am going mad. Sorry I had installed the evo experimental plugins, not the standard ones. Thank you :)
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> np :)
[15:53] <oimon> brobostigon: are yo allowed to do that? if Ne >= Ney and <= Ne
[15:54] <brobostigon> oimon: iamnot sure, thatis why i amasking, but the if statement, nneeds to check for those two states,
[15:55] <oimon> what are you trying to check?
[15:55] <oimon> if ( (Ne >= Ney) AND ?? )
[15:56] <popey> MartijnVdS: www.popey.com now fixed
[15:56] <popey> thanks daubers too :)
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> popey: \o/
[15:56] <brobostigon> oimon: if Ne is greater than or equal to Ney, and Ne is less than or equal to Ne(y+1) , otherwie dont go anyfurther.
[15:58] <oimon> what's Ne(y+1) ? Ne isn't a function AFAI see. do you mean the array ne[] ?
[15:58] <brobostigon> oimon: the variable Ne, plus whatever y is, + 1.
[15:59] <brobostigon> oimon: i amtrying to convert my dads mathematics here.
[15:59] <MartijnVdS> #maths :)
[16:00] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i understand the mathematics, tht isnt the issue, it convverting it into c, which is the problem,
[16:00] <oimon> are you trying to multiply Ne * (y+1) ?
[16:00] <brobostigon> no.
[16:00] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I missed the start of the conversation, sorry
[16:01] <MartijnVdS> What are "Ne" and "Ney"?
[16:01] <brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/601343/
[16:01] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: simple variables, within the equation i am trying to convert,
[16:01] <MartijnVdS> Ne[y], Ne[y+1]
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> those look like array access..
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> but it looks all wrong :)
[16:02] <brobostigon> use a comma, ok, let me try.
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> no wait :)
[16:02] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i will scan my dads mathematics for you.
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> I meant, you use the name "Ney" without declaring it first :)
[16:03] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: Ney is declared, up top.
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> ah yes.. but isn't the language case-sensitive?
[16:03] <brobostigon> it is,yes.
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> also.. it's a programming language -- useful names are allowed
[16:03] <oimon> ;)
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> What do "Ne" and "I" mean? and "g", "x" "a", "e", "ex" etc.
[16:04] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: Ne* and I* and entries within an array,
[16:05] <oimon> prob best to scan the page of Maths :P
[16:05] <brobostigon> that is what i am doing.
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> the goto 1:/if bit looks like an infinite loop, in the right (wrong?) conditions.. you never refresh your variables between gotos :)
[16:05] <oimon> i've never used goto in C before
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> oimon: I have, but I think he wants a while or a for here
[16:06] <oimon> yep
[16:06] <oimon> i haven't used C properly for over 10 years but it comes back eventually
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> I use it from time to time
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> mostly hacking on existing code though
[16:10] <brobostigon> https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1kMgtVoNwDgJGD2tLjVVvSHIVE8JkmMJrgFjAMubb8vs
[16:10] <brobostigon> there we go, a link to the scanned document.
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: You'll want to use:
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> how do you write that in C
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> argh
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> my head is in Perl mode :)
[16:13] <brobostigon> :)
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's a standard loop though: y=y+1 until ne(current) >= ne[y] AND ne(current) <= ne[y+1]
[16:13] <oimon> something like:  while ((Ne >= Ney) && (Ne <= Ne*(y+1)) ) {y++;}
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> oimon: no it's Ne[y] and Ne[y+1] I think
[16:13] <oimon> ah, the lower case array ne[ ] ?
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> yes
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> so it becomes:
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: is this about val or speed? :)
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> ah read "Ne x"
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> enginespeed :)
[16:16] <brobostigon> Nex, is going to be a point within the array.
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> I think it shuold be:
[16:16] <oimon> i have my 1yr old son on my lap so finding it hard to join in :P
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> while ((Nex >= ne[y]) && (Nex <= Ne[y+1])) { y++; }
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: instead of the goto/if/y+1 lines
[16:18] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so not just the if statement replace thqt with, but the whole block?
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: those 3 lines should be replaced with the one
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: note that it doesn't cope with Nex > (maximum value in ne[])
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (oops, bug in my line: replace Ne[y+1] with ne[y+1])
[16:19] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: like http://paste.ubuntu.com/601352/
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (this reads like obfuscated code ;))
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: like that, yes (but see my correction)
[16:21] <oimon> i should take up coding again...doing it at uni put me off :P
[16:22] <oimon> then writing boring stuff like hash tables and data feed handlers in my 1st job made it even more dull..don't think linux was around in those days though
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> oimon: pre-1991?
[16:23] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/601354/
[16:23] <brobostigon> like that?
[16:23] <oimon> MartijnVdS: let's say it didn't hit my radar until 1999
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes
[16:23] <oimon> rh5.1 manhattan was my first one
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: What are you trying to do? (high level)
[16:26] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: engine speed relativeto the wheel speed, based on the curve, with the values in those two arrays.
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: both reading and writing? Robotics? :)
[16:27] <ali1234> gradient on a straight line?
[16:27] <ali1234> tip: work out what the maths is actually doing and then use standard functions
[16:28] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: car control, hydraulics.
[16:29] <brobostigon> ali1234: i know what the maths is doing.
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: again, start with naming the variables "properly" -- give them names that explain what they contain
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> it'll help you write the code -- if you can say "if(speed > speed_bracket[current_speed_bracket]) { }", that's much more understandable than "if (x > y[z]) {}"
[16:36] <ali1234> this code is supposed to calculate Ix based on Nex
[16:36] <ali1234> is the relationship really a straight line as implied by the graph?
[16:37] <brobostigon> ali1234: yes.
[16:37] <ali1234> then there is no need for so much curve
[16:37] <ali1234> Ix = m*Nex+c
[16:37] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that is what i thought i had done, named them appropriatly, based ontheir relationship to the array.
[16:37] <ali1234> simply derive m and c based on what you have, and the job is done
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Sure but are you going to remember what "Ix" and "Nex" are next week? Next month? :)
[16:38] <ali1234> Ix is a random point on the I axis and Nex is a random point on the Ne axis
[16:38] <brobostigon> ali1234: let me rite that down, and try it,
[16:38] <ali1234> i have nfc what I and Ne are but it doesn't matter
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: But what do I and Ne mean?
[16:38] <ali1234> don't know, don't care :)
[16:38] <oimon> someone should :)
[16:38] <ali1234> if it said X and Y instead, it would be a lot easier to understand
[16:39]  * MartijnVdS doesn't want to read ali1234's code :P
[16:39] <oimon> hehe
[16:39] <ali1234> the question i have is why is there ne[] and Ip[]?
[16:39] <brobostigon> they a random letter, to represent them, nothing more
[16:40] <ali1234> what those numbers in the arrays for?
[16:40] <brobostigon> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/601362/
[16:40] <brobostigon> ali1234: they represent the points on that graph,
[16:40] <jonsaint> this new o/s is killin me! how the heck do i mount my secondary drive using this thing??
[16:40] <ali1234> you only need two points if it is a straight line
[16:40] <Azelphur> jonsaint: you click on it in the file browser.
[16:40] <ali1234> let me check if those points all fall on a line
[16:41] <ali1234> they don't
[16:41] <oimon> don't look like it
[16:41] <ali1234> each segment is presumably a straight line though
[16:41] <brobostigon> ali1234: my dad gave me those array figures, so i am assuming they are all there, for a good reason.
[16:41] <jonsaint> daft question but wheres filebrowser on this new one?
[16:41] <Azelphur> jonsaint: on the side bar, it's the big file icon, in yellow.
[16:42] <ali1234> brobostigon: so you have a series of points and you are basically interpolating them, correct?
[16:42] <brobostigon> alt + f2,then enter nautilus,
[16:42] <brobostigon> ali1234: yes.
[16:42] <jonsaint> its not there
[16:43] <oimon> linear interpolation?
[16:43] <ali1234> oimon: according to the doc, yes
[16:43] <jonsaint> i got files and folders but its not in there either
[16:44] <Azelphur> jonsaint: if the drive isn't showing up in the file browser then something isn't right, maybe install gparted and have a look at it.
[16:44] <brobostigon> ali1234: that document i scanned is the mathematics i have been given, by my dad, and spent several hours earlier trying to explain it all.
[16:44] <ali1234> brobostigon: lolz
[16:45] <ali1234> you should use openservo for this
[16:45] <ali1234> this is all it does
[16:45] <brobostigon> ali1234: let melookthatup, onminute.
[16:45] <ali1234> interpolate on a graph and then output a pwm signal to reach the desired position
[16:45] <jonsaint> Azelphur, you mean files and folders on the left in the bar?
[16:45] <Azelphur> yep
[16:45] <Azelphur> it should say the drive label or X GB File system
[16:46] <ali1234> it does cubic spline interpolation though, so smooth changes
[16:46] <jonsaint> Azelphur, very strange because everything worked fine before i upgraded.
[16:46] <Azelphur> fun, I upgraded and can still see all my drives
[16:46] <oimon> jonsaint: you could try mounting it manually
[16:47] <brobostigon> ali1234: that sounds right, yes.
[16:47] <jonsaint> Azelphur,  all it says in files and folders is recent, downloads and favourite folders. thats all thats in there
[16:47] <Azelphur> (16:44:28) Azelphur: jonsaint: if the drive isn't showing up in the file browser then something isn't right, maybe install gparted and have a look at it.
[16:48] <brobostigon> ali1234: so would your "Ix=m*Nex+c" work ?
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: why gparted if the standard disk tool works :)
[16:48] <ali1234> yes once you calculate m and c for the current line segment
[16:48] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I'm stuck in the past :D
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: s/calculate/lookup
[16:48] <Azelphur> jonsaint: system > administration > disk utility will work too instead of gparted
[16:48] <ali1234> you have to calculate them at least once
[16:49] <brobostigon> ali1234: ok, whatare m and c?
[16:49] <Azelphur> see if it shows up in there :)
[16:49] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: magnitude and a constant :)
[16:49] <ali1234> the gradient and constant
[16:49] <ali1234> don't they teach this stuff in school any more?
[16:49] <MartijnVdS> :P
[16:49] <brobostigon> umm, ok.
[16:49] <jonsaint> Azelphur, how do i get to system lol. i got used to the old way but this has thrown me
[16:49] <brobostigon> ali1234: no.
[16:50] <Azelphur> jonsaint: just type disk utility after clicking the ubuntu icon in the top left :p
[16:50] <ali1234> brobostigon: get some graph paper
[16:50] <brobostigon> ali1234: got,
[16:51] <ali1234> ok draw two two axis and a line like the chart you already have
[16:51] <brobostigon> ali1234: done.
[16:51] <ali1234> or indeed like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Linear_Function_Graph.svg
[16:51] <ali1234> now mark any two points on the line
[16:51] <jonsaint> Azelphur, many thanks. its there! but do i need to do this everytime i restart the pc?
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234, brobostigon: http://www.khanacademy.org/video/linear-function-graphs?playlist=ck12.org%20Algebra%201%20Examples
[16:52] <ali1234> brobostigon: next, measure the vertical (y) distance between the points
[16:52] <brobostigon> ali1234: done.
[16:52] <ali1234> and the horizontal(x) distance
[16:52] <ali1234> now do y/x
[16:52] <ali1234> now repeat for two different points
[16:52] <brobostigon> 1/1
[16:52] <ali1234> on a straight line, y/x is always the same
[16:52] <Azelphur> jonsaint: you mounted it ok from disk utility but not nautilus?
[16:53] <ali1234> this is called the gradient, or m
[16:53] <jonsaint> Azelphur, yes. i used that disk utility
[16:53] <ali1234> now look at where the line crosses the y axis
[16:53] <ali1234> this is called c
[16:53] <brobostigon> ali1234: yes, makes sense,soits is the difference between those twopoints?
[16:53] <Azelphur> jonsaint: I'd be very tempted to file a bug, if it shows up and mounts fine in disk utility but nautilus something must be up.
[16:53] <ali1234> now you know m and c you can calculate the y value at any x, by y = mx+c
[16:53] <brobostigon> ali1234: my line crosses on the 0 point.
[16:54] <ali1234> brobostigon: doesn't matter it is true for any line
[16:54] <jonsaint> Azelphur, well im very new to ubuntu (only been a few months) so getting used to one system then having this is like learning all over again lol
[16:54] <ali1234> as long as it's not paralle to y axis
[16:54] <brobostigon> ali1234: oh, i see,
[16:54] <ali1234> then it explodes to infinity
[16:54] <Azelphur> jonsaint: you do know you can use the old layout if you like
[16:54] <ali1234> (division by zero)
[16:54] <brobostigon> ali1234: makes moresense now.
[16:55] <Azelphur> jonsaint: unity is just a default, you can do whatever you want :)
[16:55] <jonsaint> Azelphur, how? never knew you could
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: check that Khan academy video
[16:55] <Azelphur> jonsaint: at login, there's a drop down box, change it to classic desktop.
[16:55] <jonsaint> Azelphur,  ah right il check that out. many thanks!
[16:55] <Azelphur> :)
[16:55] <ali1234> brobostigon: so anyway, you have a list of points, each two adjacent points form a line, for which you calculate m and c
[16:55] <ali1234> then you interpolate between them using the forula
[16:55] <brobostigon> ali1234: isnt the equation my dad has givenme, in the middle of my scan,doing that already?
[16:55] <Azelphur> myself I don't use gnome-panel or unity, I'm running a hacked up monstrosity consisting of 8 instances of cairo-dock and no nautilus desktop xD
[16:55] <ali1234> brobostigon: yes, in a mixed up round about way
[16:56] <ali1234> brobostigon: this is why i said, understand what the maths is doing and then implement it using standard functions
[16:56] <ali1234> like y = mx + c
[16:56] <ali1234> instead of trying to implement it as one big crazy function
[16:56] <brobostigon> yes, simpler aswell.
[16:56] <ali1234> once you do this you can later swap out y = mx+c for a cubic interpolator instead
[16:57] <ali1234> it's a drop in replacement, it just needs to consider the two previous and two following know points
[16:58] <ali1234> if you're controlling a motor with the output and you use linear you'll get a bump when you cross a point
[16:58] <ali1234> cos the graph has a corner there
[16:58] <ali1234> with cubic that won't happen
[16:58] <brobostigon> ok, letme and write it down.
[16:58] <ali1234> your pseudo code will be like:
[16:58] <jonsaint> Azelphur, just tried it on a reboot and i got no option to change, the only thing i got was some other things like to make the screen bigger etc
[16:59] <ali1234> 1. find the known points either side of Ix
[16:59] <Azelphur> jonsaint: it's there, you have to click on your username at the login screen, then it's next to the language dropdown
[16:59] <ali1234> 2. y = linear_interpolate(previous, next, x);
[16:59] <brobostigon> ali1234: dothe same with Nex
[16:59] <jonsaint> Azelphur, when i click on my username it logs in
[16:59] <ali1234> oh yeah you are supposed to do it the other way around
[17:00] <Azelphur> jonsaint: passwordless login? :P
[17:00] <jonsaint> yes
[17:01] <Azelphur> jonsaint: ubuntu button, type login screen
[17:01] <Azelphur> change the default session there
[17:01] <Azelphur> :)
[17:02] <jonsaint> superb. done it! many thanks yet again!
[17:02] <Azelphur> yw
[17:02] <jonsaint> chat soon!
[17:02]  * brobostigon is confused. :(
[17:08] <brobostigon> ali1234: sorry, but i am still alittleconfused.
[17:10] <brobostigon> new Dr Who, in 50 mins, :)
[17:10] <ali1234> brobostigon: what are you confused about?
[17:10] <ali1234> brobostigon: you know how to calculate points on a line now right?
[17:10] <ali1234> so implement this function:
[17:11] <ali1234> int linear_interpolate(int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2, x) {
[17:11] <ali1234> given two points (x1,y1) and (x2,y2), calculate the y value at x on the line the twooriginal points fall on
[17:12] <brobostigon> (x1/y1) * (x2/y2)
[17:13] <brobostigon> no, thats boit right,
[17:13] <brobostigon> not*
[17:14] <brobostigon> yes, that is right, becaue you are working out the difference, and then * them.
[17:15] <jonsaint> can anyone recommend a firewall. currently got firestarter but since upgrading its moved it and now its telling me that eth0 is not connected to the net even tho it is??????
[17:15] <gord> http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/models/m_perlin.htm is a good resource on what i think your trying to do
[17:15] <gord> jonsaint, why do you think you need a firewall? you probably don't :)
[17:15] <jonsaint> i thought i did??
[17:16] <gord> you don't :)
[17:16] <ali1234> brobostigon: y = mx+c
[17:17] <jonsaint> also because i got a passwordless log in, it asks for my keyring password once im in but since upgrading its asking me twice for it??
[17:17] <gord> you need a firewall on wndows because its full of viruses and malware, we don't have such a problem on ubuntu, your perfectly safe to run without any firewall, 99.9% of ubuntu users don't run with a firewall
[17:17] <gord> jonsaint, yeah thats a bug, one that i'm gonna try and make sure gets fixed next cycle. i have to put my password in 4 times at least, up to seven
[17:18] <jonsaint> ah right. cheers, il keep my eyes open for an update on that one
[17:18] <brobostigon> ali1234: ah, umm, i was miles away.
[17:19] <brobostigon> brb.
[17:22] <gord> can all the people currently update/upgrading please stop? i'm getting just terrible speeds
[17:22] <Azelphur> noted :P
[17:24] <AlanBell> Myrtti: is it an exopc that you have?
[17:26] <X3N> what would you call the play pause fwd/back keys?
[17:26] <popey> media keys
[17:26] <X3N> would that include volume keys?
[17:26] <popey> yes
[17:26] <popey> collectively they're "media keys"
[17:27] <gord> what about the email key?
[17:27] <X3N> I need a way of describring the play pause fwd/back keys which doesn't include the volume keys
[17:27] <brobostigon> ali1234: thank you for your help, i am guarenteed to have more questions.
[17:27] <popey> media control keys?
[17:27] <X3N> hmm yeah
[17:28] <X3N> though it's a volume control key
[17:28] <X3N> media actions?
[17:29] <X3N> I'm writing a patch for g-s-d to be able to pass volume control keys to applications
[17:30] <X3N> though some apps don't want to control their own volume so I need a way of grouping actions and volume keys separetely
[17:31] <X3N> control keys will probably work
[17:46] <marek__> hi all
[17:46] <marek__> any1 got some time to help me with some nfs related problems ?? please
[17:49] <marek__> any one home?
[17:50] <brobostigon> yes, but i know zero about nfs, sorry.
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> doctor in 10
[17:50] <brobostigon> :)
[17:54] <gord> printer took in half a piece of paper then claimed that it was out of paper
[17:54] <gord> printers are basically drunk toddlers
[17:55] <brobostigon> lol.weird behaviour,
[17:56] <gord> and now its printed a giant size bordering pass
[17:56] <brobostigon> lol
[17:58] <daubers> marek__: Whats the problem?
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> doctor in 0
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> Whoa @ Doctor </spoilers>
[18:48] <brobostigon> :)
[18:48] <nigelb> gord: lol, did you see the giant boarding pass?
[18:48] <nigelb> http://www.buzzfeed.com/gregp3/giant-boarding-pass-2nvq
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: https://twitter.com/#!/DalekThay/status/63669217236484097
[18:51] <MichealH> Woah
[18:51] <MichealH> Dr.Who was great
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> MichealH: can't wait for the rest of the series now :)
[18:52] <MichealH> Me either :)
[18:52] <MichealH> A new time lord?
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> MichealH: no spoilers for some other people here please :)
[18:53] <hamitron> don't make me close the window :/
[18:53] <hamitron> ty
[18:53] <hamitron> :)
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> some people watch later
[18:53] <MichealH> hamitron: I will stop now :P
[18:53] <MichealH> It was just a quick spoiler i should not have made, sorry
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: All I have to say is.. it's GOOD
[18:54] <hamitron> I am looking forward to tonights
[18:54] <hamitron> :)
[18:54] <MichealH> hamitron: You really should
[18:58] <oly> hi guys, just noticed the card reader on my studio 17 no longer works in 11.04 anyone got any suggestions on what may need doing ?
[18:58] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> Dr Who confidential on BBC3 now
[19:00]  * Azelphur gets bored of these making of the making of the making of shows on TV
[19:00] <Azelphur> the xfactor and similar ones are funny
[19:00] <Azelphur> they are recruiting to do a show for the queen, so they make a TV show about the recruiting process, and then they make a TV show about the making of the TV show about the recruiting process
[19:01]  * popey has let wifey watch silly dancing programme
[19:01] <popey> so i will watch doctor who later
[19:01] <Azelphur> so they are making a show about the making of a show about the making of a show.
[19:01] <Azelphur> \o/
[19:01] <Azelphur> oh wait, I had one too many makings there
[19:01] <hamitron> not for long..... they will steal your idea
[19:01] <hamitron> ;/
[19:02] <Azelphur> it's a show about the making of a show about a show.
[19:02] <Azelphur> hamitron: haha
[19:02] <hamitron> I also hate the way they seem to put more of the same thing on, knowing people watch it
[19:03] <hamitron> some things it gets to the stage where it is a lifestyle, keeping up with them
[19:06] <hamitron> geez, 6gb hdd space left
[19:06] <hamitron> :/
[19:06] <hamitron> this is your fault Azelphur
[19:06] <gord> i have 700mb free space on this computer
[19:06] <hamitron> you are a bad influence on me
[19:07] <hamitron> I dunno how we do it :/
[19:07] <hamitron> life used to be good with 1Gb hdd
[19:07] <hamitron> ><
[19:07] <hamitron> suppose it still is when i don't go crazy
[19:08] <livingdaylight> is everyone rocking on 11.04 now?
[19:08] <hamitron> 10.04 baby ;/
[19:08] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: nope
[19:09] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: won't touch it with someone else's stolen ten foot shitty stick
[19:09] <livingdaylight> gordonjcp, woah?
[19:09] <livingdaylight> i'm backing up here, before making the move
[19:09] <hamitron> it is often good to let others "test" it first ;)
[19:09] <popey> its also good to form your own opinion
[19:09] <hamitron> yep
[19:10] <livingdaylight> are people reporting back with issues on this one? gordonjcp, or why?
[19:10] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: 11.04 is by far the worst desktop experience I've ever had in any OS
[19:10] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: but don't let me put you off
[19:10] <hamitron> ANY? ;/
[19:10] <gord> livingdaylight, gordonjcp just doesn't like it, just try it for yourself and as popey says, form your own opinion
[19:11] <gordonjcp> hamitron: any
[19:11] <livingdaylight> gordonjcp, is that unity you're not liking?
[19:11] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: all of it
[19:11] <gordonjcp> although Unity is impossible for me to use
[19:12] <livingdaylight> gordonjcp, sheesh, surprising to hear.
[19:12] <gordonjcp> sound is broken
[19:12] <gordonjcp> ... but that's the usual pulseaudio borkedness
[19:12] <livingdaylight> by the way is there an option during install to disable unity, or is that done afterwards?
[19:12] <popey> at logon time
[19:12] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: you can log in with classic desktop
[19:12] <gord> you should prolly try it before assuming you don't want it...
[19:12] <gordonjcp> yeah, give it a go
[19:13] <hamitron> when we say "ubuntu".... do we mean the desktop OS or the basic "core"?
[19:13] <hamitron> ;/
[19:13] <popey> depends on the context
[19:13] <Psychobudgie> I'm on 11.04 with gnome 3
[19:13] <gordonjcp> hamitron: well, as a distro I don't like Ubuntu, for a variety of reasons
[19:13] <Psychobudgie> it's da bomb
[19:14] <gordonjcp> hamitron: mostly due to the sheer cackhandedness with which it's put together
[19:14] <gord> well thats just untrue
[19:14] <popey> here we go
[19:14] <gordonjcp> sound? "YOU WILL USE PULSEAUDIO" but that breaks the stuff I already use... "YOU WILL USE PULSEAUDIO! AND JUST TO MAKE SURE, WE'LL MAKE IT RESPAWN ENDLESSLY IF IT EVER GOES AWAY!"
[19:14] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: interesting, there arent many of us. gnome3 and gnome-shell improves alot upon gnome2.
[19:15] <Psychobudgie> brobostigon, I completely agree
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: fix the stuff you already use
[19:15] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: the workspace management to start.
[19:15] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it works perfectly.  It requires jack
[19:15] <Psychobudgie> brobostigon, way better than unity to boot
[19:15] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: pulseaudio is entirely incompatible with it
[19:15] <popey> the jack and pulse developers have been working together to make that a non issue
[19:16] <popey> thats upstream from us
[19:16] <Psychobudgie> like the fact I can use mouse or keyboard to manage stuff and not have how I use the desktop forced on me
[19:16] <gordonjcp> right, but I still don't want pulseaudio cluttering stuff up
[19:16] <gordonjcp> having the choice would be nice
[19:16] <hamitron> you do have the choice
[19:16] <gordonjcp> it doesn't do anything particularly useful for me
[19:16] <gordonjcp> hamitron: well, yes, use a different distro
[19:16] <livingdaylight> gordonjcp, sounds like you already have a negative bias against Ubuntu; not discounting your experience though
[19:16] <hamitron> yeh ;)
[19:16] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i think the start time is about the same.
[19:17] <gordonjcp> hamitron: unfortunately I'm stuck supporting my stuff for people who want to use it in Ubuntu
[19:17] <Psychobudgie> brobostigon, even if there is any difference it really is splitting hairs
[19:17] <gordonjcp> hamitron: and many of them aren't technically-minded enough to know why pulseaudio is a Bad Thing
[19:17] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i agree, i simply prefer gnome-shell as it fits the way i work better, than with unity.
[19:18] <Psychobudgie> brobostigon, I personally prefer the whole gnome-shell experience to that of unity. Unity just doesn't feel right. Gnome 3 feels professional and well thought out
[19:18] <popey> hah
[19:18] <popey> well thought out?
[19:18] <popey> yes, they based their "thought" on Unity design documentation!
[19:18] <gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: is there a way to get a gnome 2-like taskbar in gnome 3?
[19:19] <hamitron> popey: called "market research"? ;)
[19:19] <popey> (which is flattering)
[19:19] <Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, not that I know of
[19:19] <popey> hamitron: called 'waiting to see what the competition comes up with'
[19:19] <gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: :-/
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: run xfce :P
[19:19] <hamitron> hehe
[19:19] <gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: that's the major thing that breaks Unity for me
[19:19] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: yeah, I guess
[19:20] <Psychobudgie> don't need one in g3
[19:20] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I still think it's pretty boneheaded of both Canonical and Gnome to suddenly break with convention and make a desktop with "mystery meat" navigation
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: But it's COOL and NEW
[19:20] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it looks so dated, it's like a website from 1996
[19:20] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Have you tried KDE lately?  I think you get the option of Jack instead of Pulse and it's in many ways closer to Gnome2 desktop feel than either Unity or Gnome 3
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: research says it sucks so it must be good!
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: (I can't stand either one, can you tell?)
[19:20] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: true
[19:21] <gordonjcp> penguin42: not a huge KDE fan, and GTK apps are still very very broken in KDE
[19:21] <gordonjcp> penguin42: and no, I'm not about to rewrite every bloody thing to use Qt
[19:21]  * hamitron likes LXDE
[19:21] <penguin42> gordonjcp: I used to share that view, but KDE has got better and Gnome worse
[19:21] <gordonjcp> penguin42: <shrug>
[19:21] <gordonjcp> penguin42: all the software I use is Gtk-based
[19:22] <brobostigon> kde is utter fail, it just breaksthe way iwork, and think.
[19:22] <gordonjcp> and that doesn't work well in KDE
[19:22] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Just saying, it may be worth another look
[19:22] <gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: what do they have instead of the taskbar in Gnome 3 then?
[19:23] <Psychobudgie> swipe the mouse to the top right
[19:23] <Psychobudgie> swipe the mouse to the top left rather
[19:23] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: or hit superkey. :)
[19:24] <Psychobudgie> yup
[19:24] <Psychobudgie> and that's pretty much all you need to do
[19:24] <gordonjcp> right, but what does that do?
[19:24] <brobostigon> and then go over to the workspace management, to manage your windows,
[19:24]  * gordonjcp hasn't actually got gnome 3 installed
[19:25] <Psychobudgie> anything that is open displays on the screen and you click what you want
[19:25] <gordonjcp> hm, sounds messy
[19:25] <gordonjcp> much the same as unity; you've got to whoosh the mouse around the screen quite a bit and then play guess-the-square
[19:26] <Psychobudgie> messy?
[19:26] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: you can do it all without mouse though, all onkeyboard,
[19:26] <Psychobudgie> in what way is moving the mouse to the top left messy?
[19:26] <hamitron> my parents are newbs and won't be whooshing anything ;D
[19:26] <Psychobudgie> it's seemless
[19:26] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Unity still has the workspace shortcuts that unfortunately Gnome3 seems to have removed a lot of
[19:26] <Psychobudgie> unlike unity in which I'm surprised the stiching isn't showing
[19:27] <gordonjcp> penguin42: yeah, but they broke alt-f2 which annoys me
[19:27] <gordonjcp> hamitron: yeah
[19:27] <gordonjcp> hamitron: I'm leaving 10.04 on my Mum's computer until it's absolutely out of support
[19:27] <gordonjcp> hamitron: then I've no idea what
[19:27] <brobostigon> penguin42: ctrl + alt left-right key, is all the work spaceswitching needed,
[19:27] <gordonjcp> there's no way in hell I can possibly explain how to work Unity to her
[19:27] <penguin42> brobostigon: It can't do up and down in gnome3 as far as I can tell and hasn't got the send to left/right/up/down
[19:28] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: alt + f2 still works ingnome-shell, i use it allthe time.
[19:28] <hamitron> gordonjcp: it is always a problem upgrading for some things though.... I still have 8.04 on a few machines
[19:28] <Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, no guessing the square, tells you what it is in plain english below the live preview if the window is too small
[19:28] <Psychobudgie> unlike unity
[19:28] <Psychobudgie> which doesn't
[19:28] <gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: hm, in the screenshot I was just looking at, there wasn't a caption below
[19:28] <gordonjcp> yeah, unity sucks for that
[19:28] <gordonjcp> you've got to mouse over everything to find out what it is
[19:28] <Guest31250> hi guys,is it possible to have genome desktop on ubuntu 11.04?
[19:29] <brobostigon> penguin42: there is no left right workspace, it all workspace stacked ontop, and with right click, ou canmove windows upwards-downwards betweenworkspaces.
[19:29] <penguin42> brobostigon: Yeh - that's my problem
[19:29] <penguin42> brobostigon: I happened to like the 2d workspace layout a lot
[19:29] <Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, http://www.gnome3.org/
[19:29] <brobostigon> penguin42: 2d layout, i dont see what you mean.
[19:30] <Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, plenty of vids of it working as I describe
[19:30] <penguin42> brobostigon: Workspaces on a 2d grid rather than just up and down
[19:30] <hamitron> Guest31250: yes
[19:31] <penguin42> brobostigon: I typically run with 9 workspaces in a 3x3 configuration
[19:31] <gordonjcp> that page is all videos :-/
[19:31] <Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, yes I know
[19:31] <Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, that's the general idea
[19:31] <gordonjcp> they don't make a lot of sense to me
[19:31] <Psychobudgie> gordonjcp, you watch one, see it working in real time, go 'woo' and install it
[19:31] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: i could do the same inone massive row ingnome-shell aswell, and use the workspace  switcher, like normal, to change betweenthem
[19:32] <gordonjcp> I don't really know what I'm looking at
[19:32] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: sorry, that was meant for penguin42
[19:32] <brobostigon> penguin42:  i could do the same inone massive row ingnome-shell aswell, and use the workspace  switcher, like normal, to change betweenthem
[19:33] <brobostigon> penguin42: also, when it was a grid, i frequently got lost as to where things where. soputting them in one row, is good for me.
[19:33] <penguin42> brobostigon: But could I set them up so that the workspace switcher had them arranged in 2d? I get used to the layout (e.g. webbrowser in bottom right) and it's less moves in 2d than along a 1d
[19:33] <Psychobudgie> here's the thing, when I installed gnome 3 I really really thought I would hate it, I mean, I hated unity and from looking at screenshots I thought it would be much the same. The thing is, it is nothing like unity. It is far superior in almost every way thinkable. Screenshots do not do it justice
[19:33] <popey> !gnome3 | Guest31250
[19:33] <lubotu3`> Guest31250: Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and safe downgrading is not possible.
[19:34] <brobostigon> penguin42: not in a grid, no. it would have to be in a numbered kindof, row layout.
[19:34] <gordonjcp> Psychobudgie: can you get rid of all the little squares?
[19:34] <penguin42> brobostigon: Yeh and that's my problem; I've used the grid layout for probably 15 years
[19:34] <hamitron> popey: is it just the "gnome" packages to install Gnome 2.30?
[19:35] <brobostigon> penguin42: ok, the gnome-shell layout forme works better, but we allwork diffeently.
[19:35] <popey> hamitron: i dont understand your question
[19:35] <brobostigon> ok, brb, food.
[19:35] <hamitron> popey: gnome2 can be installed by running "apt-get install gnome"?
[19:35] <penguin42> brobostigon: Nod, the thing that frustrates me is that by removing the _ability_ to layout in 2d it breaks it for me; there was nothing in gnome2  that forces you to layout in 2d and most don't by default - it just removed the choice
[19:36] <popey> hamitron: que? on natty you get gnome 2
[19:36] <hamitron> popey: oh, ok
[19:37] <penguin42> anyway, food
[19:37] <hamitron> I thought unity replaced it
[19:37] <popey> hamitron: no we ship gnome
[19:37] <Azelphur> hamitron: lol
[19:37] <popey> hamitron: unity is a shell for gnome, but not gnome shell
[19:37] <popey> is the standard answer
[19:37] <hamitron> ah ok
[19:38] <Azelphur> hamitron: 1.2TB used atm :D
[19:39] <Psychobudgie> unity is a shell for gnome 2, gnome-shell is a shell for gnome 3, hence installing gnome-shell breaks unity
[19:39] <Psychobudgie> or something like that
[19:39] <Psychobudgie> heh
[19:40] <hamitron> I'm just glad there is over a year till I switch to 12.04
[19:40] <hamitron> :)
[19:40] <popey> not really Psychobudgie
[19:40] <popey> well kinda
[19:40] <popey> hamitron: heh, I'm on 10.04 here
[19:41] <popey> ^5
[19:41] <hamitron> same
[19:41] <hamitron> :)
[19:41] <Psychobudgie> see, kinda
[19:41] <hamitron> upgrading every 2 years is tooo often for me
[19:41] <Psychobudgie> which was my point, you can't run gnome 3 and unity as unity sits on gnome 2
[19:41] <hamitron> :D
[19:41] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: gnome-session from theppa, breaks the loading of unity from gdm, so you canonly load gnome-shell right now. directly from gdm.
[19:42] <hamitron> but you can load the old gnome shell?
[19:42] <popey> Psychobudgie: thats not the whole story
[19:42] <Psychobudgie> yeah I know
[19:42] <brobostigon> hamitron: in fall-back mode,yes.
[19:42] <Psychobudgie> I'm trying to put it in simple terms
[19:43] <popey> oh in simple terms..
[19:43] <popey> OMG WHAT HAS MARK SHUTTLEWORTH DONE TO UBUNTU!
[19:43] <hamitron> :))
[19:43] <Psychobudgie> I could go into dependancies
[19:43] <Psychobudgie> popey, hahah
[19:43] <hamitron> or from the other side "we use unity now, so get used to it" ;/
[19:43] <popey> heh
[19:43] <hamitron> brb
[19:43] <popey> Note: Slackware is still available
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> so is xubunut
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> xubuntu*
[19:44] <popey> and soon lubuntu by the look of it
[19:44] <Psychobudgie> gubuntu cometh
[19:44] <popey> not with that name it wont
[19:44] <AlanBell> and the gnome3 stuff is already in Oneiric apparently
[19:45] <popey> thats already been reject by trademarks
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> "Ubuntu Proper"
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> :P
[19:45] <Psychobudgie> gnubuntu?
[19:45] <ali1234> mint
[19:45] <Psychobudgie> lmao
[19:46] <ali1234> so how are people taking it in the forums and stuff anyway?
[19:46] <Psychobudgie> unity?
[19:46] <ali1234> are there huge whine threads?
[19:46] <popey> gnubuntu was rejected by RMS
[19:46] <Psychobudgie> they aren't exactly united by it
[19:46] <popey> ali1234: ubuntu-users is sporting some whingers
[19:46] <Psychobudgie> you see what I did there ^^^^
[19:46] <popey> but no more than usual
[19:46] <DJones> Is gNewSense still being updated/developed
[19:46] <ali1234> mailing lists aren't very representative
[19:46] <popey> basically no
[19:47] <popey> indeed
[19:47] <ali1234> anyone checked the forums?
[19:47] <Psychobudgie> how about calling it debian
[19:47] <Psychobudgie> anyone?
[19:47] <Psychobudgie> I think that's really catchy
[19:47] <ali1234> that's where most people would go to complain i guess
[19:47] <popey> yeah, i expect so
[19:47] <popey> i dont use forums
[19:47] <popey> lots of questions on AU though
[19:47] <popey> lots
[19:48] <ali1234> questions like "how do i get rid of this thing?"
[19:48] <popey> some
[19:48] <AlanBell> Psychobudgie: there is *nothing* wrong with choosing to use debian
[19:48] <popey> not as many as you think
[19:48] <Psychobudgie> hah
[19:48] <ali1234> is that because they all get marked as dupes?
[19:48] <popey> nah, they show up even if they're duped
[19:48] <Psychobudgie> popey, thats down to people already knowing how to get rid of it ;_
[19:49]  * popey shrugs
[19:49] <popey> I'm in it for the long term
[19:49] <popey> I see this as a blip
[19:49] <popey> although I expect the next month or so to get a bit rocky
[19:49] <ali1234> ah here we go. 234 page thread on ubuntu forums
[19:49] <ali1234> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1695432
[19:49] <Psychobudgie> bring 11.10 forward by a few months
[19:50] <hamitron> 11.10 has to be pushing forward too
[19:50] <hamitron> ready before the next LTS
[19:50] <popey> given 11.10 repo is already open, and has a load of stuff in, it's getting there
[19:51] <Psychobudgie> is unity in it though?
[19:51] <ali1234> i thought ubuntu+1 didn;t happen until after UDS?
[19:51] <Psychobudgie> heh :p
[19:51] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/oneiric-changes/2011-April/thread.html
[19:51] <popey> it opened the day of natty release
[19:51] <Guest31250> popey, so ubuntu, is it going to drop genome support completly
[19:51] <popey> no Guest31250
[19:51] <ali1234> that's not what happened in the past though right?
[19:52] <hamitron> I am tempted to download 11.04 just to see what is what :) all this moaning has got me interested
[19:52] <popey> yeah, this is earlier than usual IMO
[19:52] <popey> there was a lot of interest in getting it open early
[19:52] <Psychobudgie> if I was mark shuttleworth, which I'm not, cause if I was I wouldn't be in here with us losers, I would drop the whole unity experiment back to notebooks and go with gnome 3 but that's just me
[19:53] <popey> haha
[19:53] <popey> aint gonna happen
[19:53] <ali1234> gnome 3 is even worse
[19:53] <Guest31250> popey, I woul dlike to use ubuntu 11.04 with the genome version which came in default with 10.10. is that possible?
[19:53] <Psychobudgie> no it's not
[19:53] <popey> Guest31250: gnome 2 or gnome shell?
[19:53] <hamitron> if unity takes off, is gnome2 gonna be supported for a *long* time then?
[19:53] <Psychobudgie> ali1234, I've been using it for the last 2 weeks and it's miles better than unity
[19:54] <AlanBell> hamitron: nope
[19:54] <hamitron> so unity will move to gnome3?
[19:54] <ali1234> yes
[19:54] <AlanBell> yes
[19:54] <Psychobudgie> ali1234, unity feels like Amiga workbench 3.11 with toolmanager only not as flexible
[19:54] <AlanBell> 11.11 will have gnome3 underpinnings
[19:54] <popey> Psychobudgie: thats nice
[19:55] <AlanBell> and it will probably not have the classic gnome pannels
[19:55] <Guest31250> popey, i am using 10.10 + the genome 2
[19:55] <popey> my mum would love amiga workbench circa years ago
[19:55] <popey> (not)
[19:55] <Guest31250> popey, gnome 2
[19:55] <ali1234> lol workbench
[19:55] <Psychobudgie> popey, Workbench was the bomb
[19:55] <popey> Guest31250: 11.04 ships with gnome 2
[19:55] <popey> Psychobudgie: it was, for 18 year old boys in their bedroom
[19:55] <Psychobudgie> popey, Dopus though was killer
[19:55] <shauno> that's not the first time I've seen people describe unity that way :/
[19:55] <hamitron> and hopefully 12.04 will be a stable gnome3+unity after lessons learned with 11.10
[19:55] <hamitron> :)
[19:55] <AlanBell> hamitron: that is the idea
[19:56] <ali1234> actually unity does feel a lot like workbench
[19:56] <ali1234> mainly because of the global menu though
[19:56] <AlanBell> well 11.10 should be pretty solid too
[19:56] <ali1234> and the lack of any reasonable way to minimize things
[19:56] <Guest31250> popey, i tries the live version of 11.04, it gave me unity interface to try. can i choose gnome 2 while installing?
[19:56] <Psychobudgie> oh, don't get me started on the monstrosity of the global menu
[19:56] <Guest31250> popey, tried
[19:56] <AlanBell> Guest31250: you can choose it on login
[19:56] <popey> Guest31250: once installed you can choose gnome 2 (classic) at logon time
[19:56] <brobostigon> ok, if unity is going to be built on gnome-shell, then will we have the option to have normal gnome-shell and then unity?
[19:56] <AlanBell> Guest31250: so on odd days of the month you can use unity and even days classic gnome
[19:57] <Psychobudgie> it's awful
[19:57] <popey> brobostigon: its not
[19:57] <Psychobudgie> it's, douglas adams should be describing it, awful
[19:57] <popey> brobostigon: unity will be based on gnome 3, not gnome shell
[19:57] <brobostigon> popey: AlanBell justsaid, unity will be build with gnome3 in part.
[19:58] <popey> yes
[19:58] <popey> thats what i said
[19:58] <brobostigon> popey: ok, so you will be able to switch still between both freely?
[19:58] <popey> which is not what you said
[19:58] <ali1234> gnome 3 is just gtk3
[19:58] <Psychobudgie> should be able to run either if that is the case
[19:58] <Guest31250> popey, AlanBell,  so does the option pop every time (to choose unity/gnome2) when i login?
[19:58] <popey> you said unity will be based on gnome shell
[19:58] <ali1234> with same old apps
[19:58] <popey> which it will not
[19:58] <ali1234> except now they have a resize gripper
[19:58] <brobostigon> popey: i simplymisinterpretated,sorry.
[19:58] <popey> np :)
[19:58] <shauno> unity is a shell.  gnome-shell is a shell.  so it's gnome3 + your choice of shell, not -shell ontop of unity or vice, versa
[19:58] <brobostigon> popey: :)
[19:58] <popey> fun fun fun
[19:58]  * popey is making ribs and potato wedges btw
[19:59] <hamitron> it does sound fun :)
[19:59] <hamitron> major changes to move the distro forward hopefully
[19:59] <hamitron> rather than sticking with the same old known stuff
[19:59] <ali1234> something new will appear
[20:00] <ali1234> it's inevitable
[20:00] <hamitron> we have a unityless ubuntu till 2013 anyways
[20:00] <hamitron> if people choose
[20:00] <hamitron> :)
[20:01] <ali1234> some people might switch to arch and debian but they won't improve any
[20:01] <hamitron> why you say arch?
[20:01] <ali1234> because it's flavour of the month
[20:01] <hamitron> ah :)
[20:01] <Guest31250> popey, sorry to bother u...i am a noob. so am i going to two options when ever i login to 11.04
[20:01] <ali1234> nobody at all will switch to fedora or opensuse
[20:01] <popey> ali1234: +1
[20:01] <ali1234> because those distros are extremely unfriendly
[20:02] <kvarley> ali1234: I tried but proprietary stuff is a pain with it
[20:02] <hamitron> I tested fedora not long ago, seemed pretty quick
[20:02] <kvarley> ali1234: And no awesome community like Ubuntu has
[20:02] <popey> Guest31250: everyone is welcome here, no need to be sorry
[20:02] <popey> Guest31250: yes, install 11.04 and you have two options, if your 3d card supports it, you get unity, if not, then you get gnome 2 'classic'
[20:02] <popey> Guest31250: and you can optionally force it to logon as gnome 2 if you want
[20:02] <ali1234> even debian has a more friendly community than fedora/opensuse
[20:03] <hamitron> arch is hardly friendly :/
[20:03] <ali1234> yes it is
[20:03] <hamitron> it is? :-o
[20:03] <popey> my dinner is ready!
[20:03] <Psychobudgie> goto the fedora homepage and click on the community link and look at that photograph
[20:03] <popey> ttfn
[20:03] <hamitron> o/ pops
[20:03] <Psychobudgie> whats not to love
[20:03] <Daviey> popey: slacker.
[20:04] <kvarley> Anybody here have Unreal Tournament 2004?
[20:04]  * hamitron does
[20:04] <Psychobudgie> if anything we are all slightly less bad looking
[20:04] <AlanBell> Guest31250: it is a menu at the bottom of the screen after you click your name in the chooser
[20:04] <hamitron> prefer orig UT though :/
[20:04] <gord> cool, i attached an ethernet cable to my laptop to put some movies on it, but had to stretch the cable so its taught at about knee level across a doorway. there is *no* *way* this can go wrong
[20:04] <Guest31250> AlanBell, thanks a lot.
[20:04] <kvarley> hamitron: Going to start hosting a server for a few mods of it. I love the mods but not many players play on them so going to make some videos and try and get publicity because they are good linux games
[20:05] <kvarley> hamitron: Are there any mods for the original one?
[20:05] <hamitron> kvarley: I never play mods tbh
[20:05] <hamitron> hehe
[20:05] <Guest31250> popey, thanks a lot...I hope I can go ahead and do it now :-)
[20:05] <hamitron> I consider it a major hassle having to install such things
[20:05] <hamitron> :/
[20:05] <ali1234> so because of all this i predict a new distro will appear and start eating into ubuntu's market share before the end of the year
[20:06] <ali1234> kind of like how ubuntu took all gentoo's users when it came out
[20:06] <hamitron> ali1234: choice is no bad thing, just hope it retains compatibility
[20:06]  * gord adds that quote to his tomboy notes, will bring it up again at christmas
[20:06] <ali1234> ok
[20:07] <ali1234> let's hope your tomboy doesn't crash and delete all your notes like mine did
[20:07] <hamitron> why is unity a problem if you can choose not to use it?
[20:07] <ali1234> i use ubuntu because i don't like tweaking things
[20:08] <ali1234> if i wanted to tweak things i would still be using gentoo
[20:08] <hamitron> but you are still happy with the ubuntu base?
[20:08] <ali1234> meh not really
[20:08] <ali1234> i don't care about the base
[20:08] <ali1234> as long as it doesn't use rpm
[20:09] <Psychobudgie> ubuntu got a lot of users early on as it was one of the first distro's to be as simple as you wanted it to be
[20:09] <hamitron> but you'd be happy to use Gnobuntu (or whatever)?
[20:09] <ali1234> only if it had gnome-panel
[20:09] <ali1234> if it was gnome shell, i'd rather use unity
[20:09] <Psychobudgie> mandrake had made in roads on that front but went bankrupt at the wrong time and woosh their userbase went to ubuntu in droves
[20:09] <ali1234> mandrake was always rubbish
[20:09] <hamitron> Mandrake was also less stable
[20:10] <ali1234> they tried to do the same thing as ubuntu by making it simple
[20:10] <ali1234> but they did it in a way that made it harder to use if you're not a noob
[20:10] <Psychobudgie> Mandrake tried to do what ubuntu did before ubuntu did
[20:10] <hamitron> before a lot of the software was ready
[20:10] <hamitron> ;)
[20:10] <ali1234> ubuntu actually has a well polish command line interface
[20:10] <Psychobudgie> Mandrakes problem was that when they messed up they tended to really mess up
[20:10] <ali1234> mandrake never had that
[20:10] <ali1234> you use the graphical tools, or you are on your own
[20:11] <ali1234> opensuse is exactly the sameway
[20:11] <ali1234> you use yast, or you are on your own
[20:11] <hamitron> I get the feeling ubuntu sticks closer to its roots too
[20:11] <hamitron> (debian)
[20:12] <ali1234> actually i may be wrong about people going to fedora
[20:12] <hamitron> I remember the hassles of redhat rpm and mandrake rpm confusion
[20:12] <ali1234> systemd might actually turn out to be good
[20:12] <hamitron> imo, a fresh install of fedora felt more fresh than ubuntu
[20:12] <hamitron> :/
[20:12] <Psychobudgie> ali1234, it still has the same problems though with it rigidly sticking to opensource
[20:12] <ali1234> why is that a problem?
[20:13] <ali1234> that's a good thing
[20:13] <Psychobudgie> ali1234, ask someone who is having an issue with flash, ati drivers, nvidia issues, pdf problems, codec issues
[20:13] <Psychobudgie> I can go on if you like
[20:13] <ali1234> i don't care
[20:13] <ali1234> i literally do not care
[20:14] <ali1234> if you buy that stuff and it doesn't work, complain to whoever you bought it from
[20:14] <Psychobudgie> that's the spirit
[20:14] <ali1234> yes, yes it is
[20:15] <gord> wow. soundkonverter is way better than sound converter
[20:15] <hamitron> too many k's ;/
[20:16] <Psychobudgie> that addition of a k and subtraction of a c makes it sound more awesome
[20:16] <hamitron> sounds like a QT app to me
[20:16] <hamitron> :(
[20:16] <teja2011> i am using 11.04...but i was having a problem in new look of ubuntu i tried to enable desktop cube in compiz den something gone wrong dats it i can see any panels and shortcuts...help me
[20:16] <Psychobudgie> heh
[20:17] <gord> well sound converter couldn't handle utf-8 strings and converts one song at a time. soundkonverter handles utf-8 strings and converts as many cores as you have at a time
[20:17] <AlanBell> is Qt going to be in Oneiric?
[20:17] <penguin42> AlanBell: Why wouldn't it be?
[20:17] <teja2011> cant*
[20:17] <gord> depends, hard to find the cd space
[20:17] <AlanBell> I mean on the CD
[20:17] <gord> depends if we go for the 1gb image i guess
[20:17] <gord> wait till post uds
[20:17] <AlanBell> oooh
[20:17] <hamitron> 1gb on a cd?
[20:17] <gord> no cd
[20:18] <hamitron> oh noes :/
[20:18] <gord> its been thrown around for years, but i doubt desktop will go for it
[20:18]  * AlanBell hunts for the blueprint for that one
[20:18] <gord> actually i hate soundkonverter
[20:18] <gord> as it also does not work
[20:18] <Psychobudgie> lol
[20:18] <gord> it it failed eight times faster
[20:18] <hamitron> I had better sort out my netbooting
[20:18] <hamitron> ;)
[20:19] <gord> i just want to put some mp3's on my phone =\ this is what you get for using flac!
[20:19]  * hamitron just uses mp3
[20:19] <hamitron> ;)
[20:20] <Psychobudgie> me roo
[20:20] <ali1234> possible candidate for new "popular" distro: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=chakra
[20:20] <Psychobudgie> flac is just too awesome for me
[20:20] <ali1234> arch based with a nicely configured kde, or so i'm told
[20:20] <Psychobudgie> maybe if they rename it to flak it would be even more awesome
[20:20] <hamitron> I can't run i686 on all my machines :/
[20:21] <hamitron> my latest toy is only i586, hehe
[20:21] <gord> oh for crying out loud, its because we are shipping that crippled ffmpeg
[20:21] <gord> the one that can encode barely anything
[20:21] <hamitron> :/
[20:21] <ali1234> lol
[20:21] <ali1234> it's not hard to install the good one
[20:22] <ali1234> you have a choice etc
[20:22] <ali1234> choice is good
[20:22] <penguin42> hamitron: What hardware is that toy?
[20:22] <hamitron> "crap or good?" ;/
[20:22] <Psychobudgie> unless it involves unity in which case it's bad
[20:22] <hamitron> penguin42: a SiS cpu
[20:22] <hamitron> :)
[20:24] <hamitron> penguin42: http://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/VXLpercio/index.shtml
[20:24] <hamitron> I should maybe get a new toy, had this one too long for a newest toy
[20:25] <penguin42> hamitron: I like your classification of power when off
[20:25] <hamitron> it isn't mine
[20:25] <hamitron> ;/
[20:26] <penguin42> hamitron: Still, it's a bit modern compared to my P90
[20:26] <hamitron> yes, it will be replacing my P120 as it happens
[20:26] <hamitron> :)
[20:26] <hamitron> just not decided how to set things up yet
[20:27] <hamitron> tbh, my intention was to replace the P120, I will probably end up running both :/
[20:27] <ali1234> check it out: http://distrowatch.com/images/slinks/zevenos.png
[20:27] <gord> just fyi, you want the package libavcodec-extra-52 to encode mp3s
[20:27] <ali1234> beos inspired?
[20:27] <hamitron> it is just how things seem to work out
[20:27] <hamitron> I never liked BeOS
[20:28] <ali1234> hardly anyone liked it, that's why it failed totally
[20:28] <j0nr> hey folks...
[20:28] <hamitron> my friend bought it
[20:28] <hamitron> hehe
[20:28] <j0nr> is there a channel for natty probs?
[20:28] <hamitron> it was supposed to be good for image editing
[20:28] <hamitron> here is good for natty prob
[20:29] <hamitron> :)
[20:29] <ali1234> hamitron: considering that photoshop was and is the defacto standard for image editing, i'm not sure why anyone would think that
[20:29] <Psychobudgie> beOS was originally scoped for the savior of the Amiga then people realised it was awful and that was that
[20:30] <hamitron> ali1234: I just remember reading it at the time ;/
[20:30] <Psychobudgie> I still have nightmares about the beBox
[20:30] <hamitron> I actually still have the free BeOS downloads that were made available
[20:30] <hamitron> :D
[20:31] <hamitron> just cuz I download and collect stuff for the hell of it
[20:31] <hamitron> :/
[20:32] <hamitron> BeOS4Linux.tar.gz and BeOS5-PersonalEdition.exe
[20:32] <hamitron> :/
[20:34] <ali1234> actually the main thing keeping me on ubuntu is launchpad
[20:34] <ali1234> it's miles better than any of the other bug trackers that the others use
[20:35] <ali1234> especially bugzilla which is horrible
[20:35] <hamitron> and we thought it was cuz you loved us..... ;/
[20:37]  * brobostigon shakes fist, gpu hang, :(
[20:45] <hamitron> I wonder if me buying this low powered replacement device is more green than just using what i already had
[20:45] <gord> how do you mean?
[20:46] <hamitron> well, the SiS 200MHz uses less power than the P120
[20:46] <hamitron> but the making of the SiS device will have emited carbon
[20:47] <hamitron> so will it save enough power to pay for itself in carbon emissions?
[20:48] <hamitron> the best thing about it, is the space on my desk it will save :)
[20:49] <hamitron> having some usb ports is a bonus too
[20:49] <AlanBell> is there an easy peasy way to do a network install?
[20:50] <ali1234> yes
[20:50] <ali1234> boot live usb, run the script off the forums
[20:50] <ali1234> switch other machine to pxe mode
[20:50] <ali1234> done
[20:50] <AlanBell> ooh, what script?
[20:51] <ali1234> dunno, i found it on google
[20:51] <ali1234> probably doesn't work for natty
[20:51] <hamitron> that is a feature that would be handy to have on the livecd imo
[20:52] <hamitron> Tiny Linux has a script on it for such use
[20:53] <gord> just noticed how silly it is that when you plug android into usb it asks you if you want to turn off usb storage... no, i want to turn it on so i can copy files!
[20:54] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096 again, :(
[20:54] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 715096 in linux (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [Undecided,New]
[20:54] <czajkowski> gord: any idea http://twitter.com/#!/angeliotum/status/64045986976235520
[20:55] <gord> czajkowski, nope, trackpads sound like an X thing, no idea though sorry
[20:55] <czajkowski> X?
[20:55] <gord> xorg, trackpad events come through that i think
[20:56] <czajkowski> ahh ok
[20:57] <gord> i just noticed that i replaced the default "famous authors" screensaver on my kindle with mega-drive game covers. i am a huge nerd.
[20:57] <hamitron> AlanBell: this looks cool http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/di-netboot-assistant
[20:58] <czajkowski> gord: yes this is something we've all known for some time
[20:58] <AlanBell> thanks hamitron
[20:59] <gord> my desktop machine isn't up todate, but i really hope we didn't ship a nautilus with an appindicator for copying files with a cursor as the icon
[21:01] <hamitron> time for more coffee
[21:01] <hamitron> \o/ brb
[21:07] <gord> hrm i can copy at about 1MB/s on my wifi, i'm betting some peoples broadband connections are better than this
[21:12] <balor__> czajkowski, CyanogenMod
[21:13] <czajkowski> balor__: yeah I really dont want to root phone
[21:13] <czajkowski> balor__: you're a bit long in the tooth today
[21:14] <balor__> czajkowski, My DSL is acting up
[21:14] <AlanBell> balor__: is celebrating the narwhal
[21:24] <ali1234> that joke is going to get made so much when 11.10 comes out
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: celebrating the ocelot? huh?
[21:26] <ali1234> "natty is getting long in the tooth so i'm upgrading to 11.10 HURR HURR HURR"
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> ah
[21:28] <hamitron> do you need a special bluray writer for BD-RE DL disks, or is any BDRW drive ok?
[21:28] <jacobw> natty is another release with no templates by default :|
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: yes. One of those.
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: templates?
[21:29] <hamitron> MartijnVdS: which? :)
[21:29] <jacobw> nautilus > right click > create document > 'no templates installed'
[21:30] <jacobw> ~/Templates
[21:30] <gord> heh yeah
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: dunno
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: so put some files there
[21:33] <popey> evening
[21:33] <exobuzz> admiral popey
[21:33] <popey> pip pip
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> \o
[21:34] <gord> pop pop
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> <o even, if he's admiral now :)
[21:34] <exobuzz> hehe
[21:35] <hamitron> 14 quid for a 50gb storage disk seems ok(ish)
[21:35] <hamitron> :/
[21:35] <gord> i guess, is it really worth investing in 50gb of storage though?
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> maybe he means on-line storage?
[21:35] <popey> i want to upgrade the disk in my virgin v+ box
[21:35] <popey> :(
[21:35] <Myrtti> AlanBell: yuo
[21:36] <AlanBell> and here too
[21:36] <hamitron> well, I'm thinking 50gb is better than 4.5gb
[21:36] <hamitron> ;)
[21:36] <AlanBell> Myrtti: akk was playing with it with ubuntu
[21:36] <Guest34716> popey, are you there?
[21:36] <popey> Guest34716: i am here
[21:36] <Guest34716> popey: (and any macbook pro owner: have you seen this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/774089
[21:36] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 774089 in Ubuntu "Booting fails 3 times, works every fourth time after new install of Natty Narwhal amd64 on Macbook Pro" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:36] <Myrtti> AlanBell: I'm fairly sure it's a bit more useful with Ubuntu than MeeGo :-)
[21:36] <AlanBell> http://shallowsky.com/blog/linux/install/natty-on-exopc.html
[21:36] <Guest34716> longlong story short, to 'fix' that bug, Apple propose a logic board replacement
[21:36] <gord> really want to upgrade my storage on my network. but it would require a raid or something :(
[21:36] <Guest34716> £200
[21:37] <popey> Guest34716: yes, i recommended that bug was filed
[21:37] <Myrtti> AlanBell: (or rather, vanilla MeeGo, WeTab OS is actually quite nice if you ignore the Germanic point of view of the world it has)
[21:37] <Guest34716> popey: I just added to it. Who should it be raised with?
[21:38] <Guest34716> popey: because it looks like it is easy to fall in to that trap - I basically did a broadly default install and it broke
[21:38] <Guest34716> popey: do you know of any non logic-board replacement fix?
[21:38] <popey> pass
[21:39] <ali1234> oh wow that's a bad one
[21:40] <ali1234> can't be anything on the hard drive if you swapped it
[21:40] <ali1234> therefore it must be some hardware/firmware issue
[21:41] <Who__> ali1234: exactly. it really shouldn't happen like that!
[21:41] <ali1234> yeah
[21:41] <ali1234> macs
[21:41] <ali1234> why do people buy them?
[21:42]  * hamitron is ill at the thought
[21:42] <hamitron> ;/
[21:42]  * popey covers his macs microphone port
[21:42] <popey> lest it might hear ali1234 and his bad words
[21:42] <Who__> ali1234: they work great until you try and put Ubuntu on them ;)
[21:42]  * popey hugs his macbook pro
[21:42] <ali1234> popey: it might get mad and stop working for no reason and then you'll need a logic board replacement
[21:42] <popey> apparently so
[21:42] <hamitron> Macs are good products when used as designed to be
[21:42] <hamitron> ;)
[21:42] <ali1234> wouldn't want that to happen...
[21:43] <Who__> popey: not too close, as above - dont' want anything to happen to the firmware
[21:43] <ali1234> well if i had a mac and this problem this is what i would do
[21:44] <hamitron> sell it?
[21:44] <ali1234> first i would make a list of every single piece of hardware in it
[21:44] <ali1234> then i would read the driver code in the kernel for each one
[21:44] <ali1234> i would be looking for anything that has built in firmware
[21:44] <ali1234> particularly ethernet
[21:44] <ali1234> (there was a bug in previous kernel that killed e1000 ethernet cards)
[21:45] <ali1234> i have a hunch that it might be something similar here
[21:45] <popey> yeah, that was fun
[21:45] <ali1234> because EFI probably tries to boot from ethernet
[21:45] <ali1234> i mean it boots from HD too but that's clearly not the problem if you swapped
[21:45] <ali1234> so ethernet boot rom is the other possibility
[21:45] <ali1234> if the ethernet card is acting weird that might crash EFI
[21:46] <Who__> ali1234: yea, that's a good suggestion, I'll add to bug report when I get the cmoputer back
[21:46] <ali1234> it might not even be "killing" the eth as such
[21:46] <ali1234> but it might simply be something like the driver "touches" the firmware and then EFI doesn't like it any more, even though it still "works"
[21:46] <ali1234> if you see what i mean
[21:47] <ali1234> the previous bug did get fixed btw, a tool was released that undid the damage
[21:47] <ali1234> but it took a while
[21:48] <ali1234> i wonder if merely booting the livecd is enough to cause this?
[21:53] <Who__> ali1234: uncertain, and currently without a fix it's an expensive thing to test :(
[21:53] <Who__> as I note in the bug report, debug was cut short because of taking it to Apple Store :(
[21:56] <ali1234> according to the lspci it's got: 00:0a.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: nVidia Corporation MCP79 Ethernet [10de:0ab0] (rev b1)
[21:59] <ali1234> related? : http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1083747
[22:44] <popey> Who__: if you have logs I'd respond to that bug report, colin watson actually knows what he's talking about, so may be able to help
[22:48] <shauno> hm; how do you actually install the gnome3 ppa?  the list lp looks like I should be installing the gnome-desktop3 meta, but it doesn't appear to exist
[22:49] <popey> !gnome3
[22:49] <lubotu3`> Gnome 3 is not currently supported on Ubuntu. A PPA for natty is available at https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3 but these packages are EXPERIMENTAL and UNSTABLE, will break Unity and possibly other parts of your system, and safe downgrading is not possible.
[22:50] <popey> gnome-shell by the look of it
[22:51] <shauno> fun fun .. unmeetable dependencies
[22:53] <gord> i don't think that factoid is scary enough
[22:53] <gord> can we put monsters in it?
[22:53] <popey> :)
[22:53] <shauno> it probably should be scary if there's no downgrade path :/
[22:54] <gord> yeah, its basically just unstalling random libraries from what will be in O in to natty, thats not a good idea
[22:54] <shauno> (to be fair, most the scary parts of that factoid are taken almost verberatim from the lp page it references)
[22:54] <gord> can't hurt to wait a few months for O to be more stable can it? :)
[22:55] <shauno> I'm just nosey :)  I honestly don't expect natty to be stable.
[22:56] <shauno> and I don't just mean that to troll.  given the size of the changes they're making, it looks like they had the choice of either having a release that was destined to teething pains
[22:56] <shauno> or skip the 6 month cycle.  which is a scarier prospect
[22:56] <czajkowski> dr.who++
[22:59] <shauno> trying to figure out where this gir1.2 package is meant to be coming from without X installed is kinda fun.  just had to add universe because elinks isn't in main :(
[23:02] <shauno> hah, and universe fixed the problem anyway
[23:08] <shauno> uff .. wondered why that was going so slow.  ie.archive is using heanet :(
[23:16] <AlanBell> so with a computer that won't run unity3d should I run unity-2d instead?
[23:16] <AlanBell> or is that still in a run-for-the-hills kind of state?
[23:22] <gord> its not as feature-full as unity 3d and it might overwork the cpu if its a slow cpu
[23:22] <kingofswords> hi
[23:22] <gord> but it should be usable
[23:25] <kingofswords> hi any1 use zteblade for modem
[23:29] <AlanBell> wow, unity-2d is a *lot* better than I thought it would be
[23:30] <shauno> not sure I should have installed gnome-shell without ubuntu-desktop :/
[23:32] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:32] <HazRPG> brobostigon: night :)
[23:33] <brobostigon> HazRPG: good night, :)
[23:49] <ali1234> mplayer: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libXt.so.6: undefined symbol: _XtCopyFromParEnt
[23:49] <ali1234> that's new
[23:49] <ali1234> also, seeking in mpegs is broken in gstreamer again
[23:51] <hamitron> :/
[23:51]  * hamitron cuddles his LTS release with no new bugs added
[23:51] <ali1234> this is odd because mplayer worked last time i used it
[23:51] <ali1234> and i don't recall any updates
[23:57] <ali1234> oh well time to install vlc i guess
[23:58] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm curious about the capitalisation in that symbol
[23:58] <ali1234> ParEnt vs Parent?
[23:58] <penguin42> yeh
[23:58] <ali1234> i copy pasted it
[23:59] <ali1234> google only knows about Parent
[23:59] <penguin42> there's an _XtCopyFromParent in that library
[23:59] <ali1234> uh oh
[23:59] <ali1234> tried to report a bug, firefox reported the same error
[23:59] <ali1234> i think my system is fubar
[23:59] <penguin42> almost looks like a 1 bit corruption
[23:59] <ali1234> yeah