[00:00] <popey> i am building on x86_64
[00:00] <popey> (and it builds)
[00:01] <Azelphur> \o/
[00:01] <popey> you want it built for 10.04?
[00:02] <shauno> there goes that idea then :)
[00:02] <Azelphur> popey: that'd only really be a stopcap, I like to keep things up to date
[00:02] <popey> wow, we must have been through this before
[00:02] <popey> I have a znc ppa
[00:02] <Azelphur> oh fun :p
[00:02] <Azelphur> I really need to check and see if I can build other projects besides znc
[00:02]  * Azelphur thinks of something to try and build
[00:02] <popey> cowsay
[00:03] <Azelphur> is cowsay c++? :P
[00:03] <hamitron> Azelphur: openoffice? ;)
[00:03] <Azelphur> hamitron: on a server so don't really wanna pull all those dependencies
[00:04] <hamitron> xorg?
[00:04] <hamitron> ;p
[00:04] <shauno> interesting that it didn't die on the same file in both pastes
[00:04] <Azelphur> yea, it seems to move around
[00:04]  * TheOpenSourcerer is back from t' pub. A great live band Jazz/Funk stuff. Very enjoyable.
[00:12] <hamitron> ok
[00:12] <hamitron> no more minecraft tonight
[00:12] <hamitron> :/
[00:12] <hamitron> 5 hours straight :/
[00:13] <shauno> I've found weather has kinda solved minecraft for me.  I play until it rains, and then disconnect :/
[00:13] <hamitron> haha
[00:13] <hamitron> I kinda like the weather
[00:13] <hamitron> I wish snow settled
[00:13] <hamitron> and that water mod someone showed was cool
[00:13] <Azelphur> Just tried compiling inspircd, which is also C++
[00:14] <hamitron> then it could rain to "top up" the ocean
[00:14] <Azelphur> same crash, my g++ is screwed somehow
[00:14] <hamitron> does gcc work?
[00:14] <Azelphur> hamitron: clearly not, I get the same internal compiler error: segmentation fault error, while compiling 4 different versions of ZNC and inspircd
[00:15] <hamitron> :/
[00:15] <hamitron> does it compile hello world?
[00:15] <Azelphur> dunno
[00:16] <ali1234> run it in gcc
[00:16] <penguin42> Azelphur: Does it seg fault in the same place each time?
[00:16] <ali1234> i mean gdb
[00:16] <shauno> hello.cpp is a fine idea.  narrow it down to the simplest case
[00:16] <gord>  snow does settle doesn't it hamitron? freezes water and puts snow on grass/leaves?
[00:17] <hamitron> it does?
[00:17] <hamitron> that just shows how much I've taken notice
[00:17] <hamitron> :D
[00:18] <popey> anyone here got a vodafone dongle?
[00:18] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://pastebin.com/yznPjuw3 I probably did it wrong :p
[00:18] <ali1234> Azelphur: yes
[00:19] <ali1234> you ran make in gdb
[00:19] <ali1234> you need to find the g++ command that make runs that causes the crash
[00:19] <ali1234> and then run that in gdb
[00:19] <popey> line 101 in that paste?
[00:19] <ali1234> exactly
[00:19] <gord> i keep wanting to make an ice-house in minecraft by freezing layers of water, but weather takes so long :(
[00:19] <ali1234> gotta figure out which directory it was in when it ran it too
[00:19] <ali1234> make likes to cd a lot
[00:20] <popey> top level of znc by the look of it
[00:20] <penguin42> Azelphur: If you run it again do you get exactly the same failure at the same line?
[00:20] <popey> it references modules/foo
[00:20] <popey> or rather inspirecd
[00:20] <popey> -e
[00:21] <Azelphur> penguin42: nope, It happens in different files pretty much every time
[00:21] <Azelphur> but it's always Internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
[00:21]  * TheOpenSourcerer wonders if popey ever sleeps?
[00:21] <popey> rarely
[00:21] <penguin42> Azelphur: OK, then in that case it's much more likely you have bad ram or other hardware - Gcc is very good at finding it
[00:21] <Azelphur> I've had a feeling I have had bad memory
[00:21] <hamitron> :/
[00:21] <Azelphur> I wonder how I can test that on a server I have no physical access to
[00:21] <penguin42> Azelphur: Then run memtest86
[00:21] <popey> uhm
[00:22] <popey> Azelphur: have you run g++ in gdb yet?
[00:22] <popey> before assuming its hardware :)
[00:22] <Azelphur> popey: working on it, not sure how to pass arguments to gdb :p
[00:22] <ali1234> if it always crashes in a different place it;s not reproducable :)
[00:22] <ali1234> Azelphur: gdb g++
[00:22] <popey> gdb g++ -o modules/cmd_unloadmodule.so -pipe -fPIC -DPIC -pedantic -Woverloaded-virtual -Wshadow -Wformat=2 -Wmissing-format-attribute -Wall -O2 -g1 -Iinclude -DMODNAME=cmd_unloadmodule.so -fPIC -shared -rdynamic /home/user/inspircd/src/commands/cmd_unloadmodule.cpp
[00:22] <ali1234> then run <command line args>
[00:22] <popey> direct from line 101
[00:22] <popey> oh, you cant pass them?
[00:22] <ali1234> popey: no, gdb don't work like that
[00:22] <popey> bum
[00:22] <popey> sorry
[00:23] <ali1234> maybe it does if you pass --
[00:23] <popey> ah maybe, I was sure I had done something like that
[00:23] <penguin42> Azelphur: run the g++ command with -v   that shows you the internal subcommands it's running; it's unlikely it's the g++ command itself that's segging
[00:23] <gord> *turns on u1, destroys hotel internet for all*
[00:24] <penguin42> Azelphur: But to be honest, if it's segging differently each time I'd run memtest before bothering with gdb
[00:25] <popey> gdb g++ -o modules/cmd_unloadmodule.so -pipe -fPIC -DPIC -pedantic -Woverloaded-virtual -Wshadow -Wformat=2 -Wmissing-format-attribute -Wall -O2 -g1 -Iinclude -DMODNAME=cmd_unloadmodule.so -fPIC -shared -rdynamic /home/user/inspircd/src/commands/cmd_unloadmodule.cpp
[00:25] <popey> oops
[00:25] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/37999/what-is-different-about-the-mac-iso-image/
[00:25] <popey> guy leaving comments is useless
[00:25] <popey> why is he bothering
[00:26] <shauno> that is pretty bad
[00:26] <Azelphur> still having no luck with gdb D:
[00:26] <shauno> aw, I don't have enough rep on askubuntu to downvote
[00:26] <gord> askubuntu.com really likes to destroy my cpu :(
[00:26]  * popey starts a bounty on that question
[00:27] <gord> i would guess that its kernel stuff, but i have no idea
[00:27] <Azelphur> ali1234: it won't build with the g++ command either, it complains about inspircd.h being missind
[00:27] <gord> upboated
[00:28] <gord> i earned the critic badge!
[00:28] <popey> i just earned the "Famous Question" badge :)
[00:29] <gord> i have nearly enough for reduced advertising, that seems weird
[00:30] <gord> reducing the number of advertisements of people who use your site a lot?
[00:30] <ali1234> no, reducing adverts for people who contribute a lot
[00:31] <ali1234> you can use stack exchange a lot while contributing very little
[00:31] <Azelphur> on the basis that the crash point continually changes it's highly likely to be memory :p
[00:31] <ali1234> you can also earn a large amount of rep while using the site very little
[00:32] <Azelphur> before I bring my host in on this I definitely need to get rsnapshot working, can anyone give me a quick crash course on it?
[00:32] <hamitron> brb, coffee
[00:32]  * popey → bed
[00:32] <Azelphur> useful :p
[00:32] <gord> is it just me or is the snickers in my minibar laughing at me?
[00:33] <ali1234> popey: why don't you download the regular ISO and see how it fails? should provide you with an answer :)
[00:33] <jacobw> uh huh
[00:34] <shauno> on mine, they both fail in the same place :)
[00:35] <ali1234> lol hand-wavy
[00:43] <Azelphur> hmm, I'm trying to get myself access to my servers root account using an ssh key, the guide I'm reading says scp .ssh/id_rsa.pub root@remotebox1.server.com:.ssh/authorized_keys2
[00:43] <Azelphur> which I translated as scp .ssh/id_rsa.pub from my PC to /root/.ssh/authorizedkeys2
[00:43] <Azelphur> but I still get a password prompt when attempting to ssh :(
[00:44] <ali1234> Azelphur: use the seahorse
[00:44] <Azelphur> the what now? o.O
[00:44] <ali1234> "passwords and encryption keys"
[00:44] <ali1234> "my personal keys"
[00:44] <ali1234> right click your ssh key
[00:44] <ali1234> "configure key for secure shell"
[00:44] <ali1234> fill the wizard
[00:44] <ali1234> done
[00:45] <lazarus_> trisquel is cool
[00:45] <ali1234> who?
[00:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: I broke it, it says couldn't open fd 23: Bad file descriptor Permission denied (publickey, password)
[00:46] <Azelphur> :(
[00:46] <ali1234> well... maybe because your server has bad ram?
[00:46] <Azelphur> I can ssh in on normal users o.O
[00:46] <Azelphur> also the root account is passwordless, as is the default with ubuntu
[00:46] <Azelphur> it looks like it's trying something with password which I assume won't work :p
[00:47] <lazarus_> ali1234: not who is a what
[00:47] <lazarus_> trisquelgnu linux is cool
[00:47] <jacobw> its the new gnunewsense
[00:48] <jacobw> gnewsense even
[00:50] <penguin42> I did see there was an open bug about ssh failures
[00:51] <Azelphur> there, got it now following a different guide :)
[01:07] <Azelphur> anyone got any idea what error (if it even is an error) http://pastebin.com/wrKFDHfW this is?
[01:11] <Azelphur> never mind I'm just stupid
[01:26] <hamitron> 16Mb ram disk, 48Mb for OS to use \o/
[01:34] <hamitron> will cut things down more some other time
[01:35] <hamitron> :)
[01:35] <hamitron> have anyone got experience with net booting using rpl?
[01:40] <gaz> bitplane
[01:41] <gaz> oops
[01:41] <Azelphur> planes of bits!
[01:41]  * Azelphur throws a bitplane at hamitron
[01:41] <hamitron> :/
[01:42]  * hamitron throws a beginners manual to linux at Azelphur
[01:42] <hamitron> of*
[01:42] <hamitron> bah
[01:42] <hamitron> tired :/
[01:42] <Azelphur> :p
[01:42] <hamitron> can't decide how to set things up
[01:42] <Azelphur> doing an rsnapshot of my server, huge download \o/
[01:45] <hamitron> on your sky broadband?
[01:45] <hamitron> ;)
[01:53] <Azelphur> hamitron: indeed
[01:53] <Azelphur> good way to test unlimited, gonna be doing 1MB/sec for the next 10 hours at least I would think
[01:53] <hamitron> hehe
[01:53] <hamitron> so long as it has resume.....
[01:54] <Azelphur> rsnapshot better have resume or I'm officially declaring it full of fail :P
[01:54] <hamitron> how big is it?
[01:54] <shauno> if it's rsync based (which appeared to be, based on your last paste), it'll resume just fine
[01:54] <hamitron> your collection of data I mean ;/
[01:55] <Azelphur> hamitron: like 40GB
[01:56] <hamitron> I was gonna offer my vps, but it only has 14Gb free
[01:56] <hamitron> hehe
[01:56] <Azelphur> haha
[01:57] <hamitron> I managed to use 1Gb of 500Gb monthly use last month
[01:58] <hamitron> so i am improving :)
[01:58] <Azelphur> hamitron: call me when you hit 3TB :P
[01:58] <hamitron> my vps is the cheapest I could find, and seems ok
[01:59] <Azelphur> reminds me of my 32MB vps days :)
[01:59] <hamitron> I had a problem after some upgrades, but the tech support guy was really good
[01:59] <hamitron> $15 per year for 128Mb vps I like
[01:59] <hamitron> :)
[02:00] <hamitron> not really upto what your server does though
[02:00] <Azelphur> hehe
[02:00] <hamitron> :D
[02:00] <Azelphur> I started on a 32mb vps for $8/mo
[02:00] <Azelphur> it was bad :(
[02:01] <hamitron> I could live with 32Mb
[02:01] <hamitron> I was given one by a friend who found it crap
[02:01] <hamitron> but he was more of a centos guy
[02:01] <Azelphur> hamitron: I lived in it too, until my VPS host gave me hell :D
[02:01] <hamitron> the only things I could get working right on it was slackware
[02:02] <hamitron> my main problem....
[02:02] <hamitron> it was friends, under their name
[02:02] <hamitron> so i ddin't feel like I could do wtf I wanted
[02:02] <hamitron> in case it came back to bite them
[02:03] <Azelphur> hamitron: mine worked for a while till they oversold the server and someone started 100%ing the CPU to the point that it had 90% packet loss
[02:03] <hamitron> :/
[02:03] <hamitron> didn't they kick that user?
[02:03] <Azelphur> at which point the VPS host said "YOUR OUT OF RAM!" and kept on pasting me the output of free -m, which clearly showed I wasn't out of ram.
[02:04] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=733805 XD
[02:06] <hamitron> :))
[02:06] <hamitron> I'm with buyvm
[02:06] <Azelphur> that's my review on them, fun fun
[02:06] <hamitron> I don't expect anything good from them
[02:07] <Azelphur> hehe
[02:07] <hamitron> but gives me something to play with
[02:07] <Azelphur> I didn't expect anything good, but 30-90% packet loss isn't really usable
[02:07] <hamitron> no
[02:07] <Azelphur> like, you can't even ssh on that :P
[02:07] <hamitron> I've been ssh'ed into mine for 4 days fine
[02:07] <hamitron> :)
[02:08] <hamitron> as I use chrome for main web browsing, then firefox with socks proxy settings
[02:08] <Azelphur> fun, I do that too
[02:09] <Azelphur> great minds :P
[02:10] <hamitron> my vps provider offer a distro with a GUI :/
[02:10] <hamitron> not tried it, but can't be good
[02:10] <hamitron> my ping is generally 180ms
[02:11] <Azelphur> haha, gui on servers for the kiddies :P
[02:12] <hamitron> I've never had a server with a GUI
[02:12] <Azelphur> me either
[02:12] <hamitron> when i started on linux, struggled to get X working, so learnt commands
[02:13] <hamitron> and actually had a server before a desktop
[02:14] <Azelphur> I did run a windows 98 server in my bedroom when I was like 13, before I was using Linux :p
[02:14] <hamitron> 98 server? ;/
[02:14] <hamitron> no way!
[02:14] <Azelphur> :D
[02:14] <Azelphur> 98se.
[02:15]  * hamitron shakes head
[02:15] <hamitron> I was on windows 95 on my machines, when I got into linux
[02:15] <hamitron> :/
[02:16] <Azelphur> I used to write bots with mIRC scripting, so I used to have to host them on windows 98 xD
[02:16] <Azelphur> then I switched to Linux and went "ooo, python" and ported them.
[02:16] <hamitron> that is 1 thing I have never done, that I would like to
[02:16] <hamitron> IRC bot stuff
[02:17] <hamitron> seems to be a things everyone does, that I have missed
[02:17] <hamitron> thing*
[02:17] <Azelphur> I'm pretty decent at it, been doing it since I was about 12 years old
[02:17] <Azelphur> nearly a decade now :D
[02:18] <hamitron> you use eggdrop now I assume?
[02:18] <Azelphur> no, I still use python.
[02:18] <hamitron> I not looked closely, what does eggdrop use?
[02:19] <hamitron> I assumed it would do different languages
[02:19] <Azelphur> afaik eggdrop is tcl
[02:19] <Azelphur> but I've never actually used it
[02:20] <hamitron> I need to change DNS provider
[02:20] <hamitron> :/
[02:21] <Azelphur> who you with?
[02:21] <hamitron> 1and1 don't support ipv6
[02:22] <Azelphur> check out namecheap, I use them and I generally only hear good things about them :P
[02:23] <hamitron> I don't wanna move away from 1and1
[02:23] <hamitron> just host the DNS elsewhere
[02:23] <hamitron> ;)
[02:23] <Azelphur> oh :p
[02:24] <hamitron> I used to go to somewhere cheaper, and they just stopped working
[02:24] <hamitron> site still up, still able to pay them money
[02:24] <hamitron> but domains don't register
[02:24] <hamitron> :/
[02:25] <hamitron> namecheap do actually offer freedns
[02:25] <hamitron> :)
[02:25] <Azelphur> lol
[02:25] <Azelphur> yea, I was about to mention that
[02:26] <hamitron> do they support ipv6?
[02:26] <hamitron> seems so
[02:26] <Azelphur> dunno
[02:29] <hamitron> the problem still remains
[02:29] <hamitron> not much to be gained from enabling ipv6
[02:29] <hamitron> :)
[02:30] <hamitron> almost pointless me bothering
[02:32] <Azelphur> :p
[02:34] <hamitron> ah ffs
[02:34] <hamitron> my vps provider removed ubuntu 10.04 basic install
[02:35] <Azelphur> I hate it when VPS providers mess with the installation
[02:35] <hamitron> because of a bug in tar that I had
[02:35] <Azelphur> they so often do really irritating things like enable the root user by default
[02:35] <hamitron> but easy to fix when you got guys in here ;)
[02:35] <Azelphur> and remove certain repositories to save bandwith
[02:35] <hamitron> yeh
[02:35] <hamitron> but removing the install option is a pain
[02:35] <hamitron> :/
[02:36] <hamitron> 10.10 is too new for me
[02:36] <hamitron> ;)
[02:37] <Azelphur> haha
[02:37] <hamitron> I better not break my 10.04 install i suppose
[02:37] <hamitron> :)
[02:38] <hamitron> or I'll have to use debian 6
[03:04] <hamitron> right
[03:04] <hamitron> need sleep
[03:04] <hamitron> :)
[03:04]  * hamitron is weak
[03:47]  * ball staggers around a bit.
[04:04] <shauno> evening
[04:05] <shauno> woah, timestamp fail
[04:37] <HazRPG> \o
[04:38] <HazRPG> ah he's gone :/
[05:39] <kaushal> hi
[05:39] <kaushal> In 11.04, whats the other name for Ubuntu Classic Mode /
[05:39] <kaushal> ?
[05:39] <kaushal> I mean Ubuntu Classic Mode vs ?
[05:39] <MartijnVdS> Unity?
[05:40] <MartijnVdS> Ubuntu Desktop?
[05:40] <kaushal> ok
[05:40] <kaushal> Ubuntu Classic Mode vs Ubuntu Desktop
[05:40] <kaushal> ?
[05:41] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
[06:12] <Knightwise> Morning everyone
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: took some pics of knights yesterday :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/
[06:29] <Knightwise> looks fantastic !
[06:29] <Knightwise> and very hot inside that armor
[06:31] <MartijnVdS> Probably, yes :)
[06:31] <Knightwise> but pretty darn cool nonetheless
[06:32]  * Knightwise decides to have an off-twitter day
[06:32] <Knightwise> americans and their osama crazyness are a  bit too much for me
[06:32] <MartijnVdS> s/crazyness/silliness/
[06:33] <Knightwise> keeps me wondering : who the fanatics are ...
[06:33] <Knightwise> (just read gwbush's facebook comments)
[06:33] <Knightwise> God bless .. god this .. god bless .. etc etc
[06:33] <Knightwise> *shivers*
[06:34] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: Gawd bless their guns
[06:34] <Knightwise> allthough some of the retweets are hilarious
[06:35] <Knightwise>  ( Chuck norris just got back from afganistan etc ..)
[06:35] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: "Trump will want to see the long-form death certificate"
[06:35] <Knightwise> LOL
[06:35] <Knightwise> poor trump
[06:35] <Knightwise> what they did to him at the dinner was hilarious !
[08:03] <phonex01> god god god they killed bin laden
[08:04] <Bin> Hi
[08:09] <Pendulum> morning
[08:09] <Bin> good morning
[08:16] <AlanBell> Bin_Laden: change your nick
[08:16] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:16] <Bin_Laden> ohhh why ?
[08:16] <Bin_Laden> it is just a name ?
[08:17] <Bin_Laden> ohhh no democracy in ubuntu rooms
[08:17] <Bin_Laden> shame on you !
[08:17] <Myrtti> IRC is not a democracy
[08:17] <Bin_Laden> ok it is just a name
[08:18] <Bin_Laden> what is the problem with it !!!!!
[08:18] <Bin_Laden> even bin laden is dead now !
[08:19] <Myrtti> politics is a sensetive subject and usually ends up in a heated discussion that muddles up the original reason of the channels existance, which is to discuss about Ubuntu
[08:19] <AlanBell> Bin_Laden: yes, I know, celebrate some other way please
[08:19] <Myrtti> so we kindly ask people to check their political opinions at the door before joining the discussion
[08:20] <Bin_Laden> im not celebrating i LOVE bin laden
[08:20] <Bin_Laden> that is why i use his name
[08:20] <Myrtti> see, now I think you are trolling
[08:20] <Bin_Laden> and this a freedom
[08:20] <Bin_Laden> i will not talk about policy
[08:20] <Bin_Laden> but please dont tell me to change my nae because this a freedom
[08:20] <Bin_Laden> nae * name
[08:21] <Myrtti> good call
[08:22]  * suprengr thanks AlanBell 
[08:22] <AlanBell> change your nick and you can talk about stuff that isn't politics
[08:23] <phonex01> hi it is me bin laden !!!
[08:23] <phonex01> haha ok i will not talk about policy
[08:31] <iulian> Hahah.
[09:29] <kvarley> Having difficultly removing a file from a drobo nas unit, the file is write protected aparently. It's a .bin file made by Windows backup, I'm trying to remove it but I can't figure out how to, any ideas of where to start?
[09:31] <pipa> kvarley, have you tried changing the permissions on the file?
[09:32] <kvarley> pipa: In the permission tab in nautilus it says they couldn't be determined
[09:32] <daubers> Morning
[09:34] <dutchie> josh@betelgeuse:~$ ls /media/titan/
[09:34] <dutchie> ls: reading directory /media/titan/: Input/output error
[09:34] <dutchie> josh@betelgeuse:~$ umount /media/titan
[09:34] <dutchie> /sbin/umount.udisks: no device for /media/titan: No such device
[09:34] <kvarley> pipa: ls -al gives: drwx------ 1 kevin kevin   0 2011-05-02 21:20 . drwx------ 1 kevin kevin   0 2011-05-02 21:09 .. -r-x------ 1 kevin kevin 528 2010-05-04 16:46 damn.bin
[09:34] <dutchie> i think i may need a new disk
[09:35] <pipa> kvarley, have you sudo rm -f [filename]
[09:35] <kvarley> pipa: Permission Denied
[09:37] <kvarley> pipa: Trying to recursively delete the folder the file is in gives me "Invalid argument"
[09:38] <pipa> kvarley, can you sudo chmod 777 damn.bin
[09:38] <kvarley> pipa: Operation not supported
[09:39] <kvarley> pipa: I have an idea, I think maybe it's because I'm going through a droboshare to get to the drobo. Gonna go try USB connection directly to the drobo and see if I can delete it afk 5 mins
[09:47] <hoover> mornin all
[09:49] <kvarley> pipa: Managed to get rid of it, because it was over the network sudo didn't like it.
[09:52] <daubers> kvarley: Mounted over NFS?
[09:52] <kvarley> kvarley: Samba
[09:52] <kvarley> daubers: Samba - Is that the same thing?
[09:53] <daubers> kvarley: No.... I don't think samba inherantly understands chmod et al
[09:54] <kvarley> daubers: Ah ok, well that was my problem. Had to plug into it via USB
[09:54] <kvarley> Windows was trying to clutch onto me but I destroyed it :)
[09:55] <daubers> heh
[09:59] <Pendulum> sorry for disappearing earlier. the net dropped and then the cats settled on me
[10:07] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:19] <dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
[10:19] <brobostigon> hiya dwatkins :)
[10:20]  * dwatkins is running an anti-malware scan on Windows 7 due to java trojans
[10:20] <brobostigon> :(
[10:21] <dwatkins> Seems Mcafee didn't find the malware on this Windows 7 machine - yet another reason to use Ubuntu, I guess :-/
[10:21] <dwatkins> In fairness, I'm sure if Ubuntu were more popular, it would be a bigger target for malware writers, but it's also more difficult to get trojans or viruses on linux, of course.
[10:22] <brobostigon> dwatkins: not solely ubuntu, but any gnu/linux distro, and or unix more generally, rather than one specific distro alone.
[10:23] <dwatkins> yeah, brobostigon - although I get the impression Ubuntu is probably the most popular right now out of all the linux distros on the home desktop.
[10:23] <dwatkins> I was impressed with Unity's ease of use, which will probably help matters further.
[10:23] <brobostigon> maybe yes.
[10:25] <brobostigon> unity is ok,but i doesnt really work aswell,for me, as it could. gnome-shell fits for me better. but mind you, i am a weird creature.
[10:25] <Psychobudgie> gnome-shell is da bees knees
[10:26] <popey> I must get around to trying that one day
[10:26]  * daubers hugs python decorators
[10:26] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: do you have gnome3 an gnome-shell on highlight?
[10:26] <dwatkins> I'll suggest gnome-shell to my other half, she may find that a lot more functional than unity
[10:27] <dwatkins> Is there an easy way to switch between unity, gnome shell and normal gnome?
[10:27] <brobostigon> dwatkins: not yet, as gnome-session is still broken, and needs fixing.
[10:27] <Psychobudgie> on highlight?
[10:27] <popey> dwatkins: not yet
[10:27] <dwatkins> ah ok, thanks folks
[10:27] <popey> dwatkins: not sure that's planned anywhere
[10:27] <popey> maybe in fedora or suse you will be able to ;)
[10:27] <Psychobudgie> dwatkins - not until unity moves to gnome3
[10:28] <Psychobudgie> and gnome-shell is technically normal gnome
[10:28]  * popey downloads GNOME 3 ISO images for openSUSE and Fedora
[10:28] <dwatkins> ah ok, I wasn't sure, Psychobudgie
[10:28] <brobostigon> dwatkins: gnome-session withinthe gnome3-teams ppa,is being fixed as we speak, to llow changing betweenthose properly.
[10:29] <dwatkins> llow, brobostigon?
[10:29] <brobostigon> dwatkins: allow*
[10:29] <dwatkins> aha excellent
[10:29] <brobostigon> dwatkins: be assured, i will report, when it is fixed.
[10:29] <dwatkins> I was impressed to notice that SLES added options to switch between twm, fluxbox and gnome or kde
[10:29] <dwatkins> thanks brobostigon
[10:30] <brobostigon> :)
[11:02] <dwatkins> What's a good virus scanner to run on Ubuntu in order to scan a drive containing Windows executables?
[11:03] <brobostigon> !antivirus
[11:03] <lubotu3`> Antivirus is something you don't need on !Linux. except where files are then passed to windows computers (perhaps using samba), See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
[11:03] <dwatkins> ah yes, thanks brobostigon
[11:04] <dwatkins> Samba is exactly what I use. The disk was causing problems until I applied a fix mentioned in the bug report to disable the disk from sleeping.
[11:36]  * dwatkins begins the process of scanning all his virtual machines and storage 
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: scary?
[11:52] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it's a little daunting, considering the number of virtual machines. I suspect the infection happened on Friday, so it's less of a problem than if it had happened a long time ago.
[11:58] <daubers> django is lovely, that is all
[12:14] <brobostigon> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hydraulic-hybrid/+junk/saab-hybrid/view/head:/BareSaab1/BareSaabv2/BareSaabv2.pde i have some of the mathematics working now.
[13:18] <suprengr> boo!
[13:19] <suprengr> (&hi from 1104)
[13:19] <AlanBell> yay
[13:20] <suprengr> o/ AlanBell
[13:27] <JGJones> Wish Google would just update Picasa for Linux, the latest works just fine in Wine.
[13:27] <AlanBell> it is just a photo organiser though isn't it?
[13:28] <suprengr> JGJones: if you check filesystem it always works with wine - no wine before install, install picassa - wine folder appears
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> libwine
[13:29] <JGJones> AlanBell, basically yes, but it is fast and does have some useful features that make it worthwhile.
[13:30]  * suprengr agrees
[13:30] <JGJones> suprengr, I usually just install Picasa for Linux, and then the latest Picasa for windows under windows and transfer files to replace the "Picasa for Linux"
[13:30] <JGJones> under wine I mean
[13:31] <suprengr> ;)
[13:31] <arsen> erp
[13:31] <arsen> doenst look like 11.04 has had a good reception
[13:31] <arsen> googling for upgrade looks like bad news :x
[13:35] <czajkowski> http://www.ukuug.org/events/opentech2011/
[13:36] <suprengr> on same [sort of] subject seeing Shotwell still not implenting 'random' in slideshow I checked the status of my bug / brainstorm submission & found they gave up on it because they couldn't understand what a 'random' or 'shuffle' was!
[13:36] <suprengr> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25199
[13:39] <suprengr> as in - what a what a 'random' or 'shuffled' display order was :(
[13:41] <suprengr> even after... "This is a reasonable feature request. I've created a ticket for this in Shotwell's bug database:http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/2198-Adam Dingle, Yorba
[13:43] <suprengr> http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/2198 refers
[13:44]  * popey clicks 'Restart' on the 11.04 install on czajkowski's Dell Mini 9
[13:45] <czajkowski> OMG!
[13:45] <czajkowski> :D
[13:45] <popey> logon screen...
[13:46] <popey> bongo drums
[13:46] <popey> desktop
[13:48] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/laurasdellmini9.png
[13:49] <madfish> hazzah! czajkowski's computer works - but I'm not quite sure what's been going on.#
[13:49] <bigcalm> Might have to upgrade the Dell laptop to Natty then
[13:49] <madfish> Merry Bank Holiday BTW!
[13:49] <dwatkins> nice, popey - wanna run bootchart to see if you can shave a couple seconds off that? ;)
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> madfish: another one?
[13:50] <popey> :)
[13:50] <madfish> MartijnVdS: you're living in the wrong country ;)
[13:50] <czajkowski> popey: SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
[13:51] <czajkowski> May 2nd
[13:51] <czajkowski> finally some good karma!
[13:51] <Azelphur> popey: still running that initial rsnapshot haha :p
[13:51] <Azelphur> I got it working last night \o/
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> madfish: I'm taking Thursday and Friday off, and I get several days in june for free
[13:51] <popey> Azelphur: dunno what you're talking about :)
[13:52] <Azelphur> You suggested I use rsnapshot for server backups, I'm using it now? :D
[13:52] <popey> czajkowski: you at home?
[13:52] <Azelphur> initial backup is a huge download, been running for 12+ hours now lol
[13:52] <madfish> MartijnVdS: nice :)
[13:52] <Azelphur> at 1MB/sec \o/
[13:52] <czajkowski> popey: aye
[13:52] <czajkowski> popey: at least for the next 28 days :p
[13:53] <popey> want me to drop this off?
[13:53] <czajkowski> popey: if you could that would be great, but if you're doing stuff I've managed long enough without causing hassle
[13:53] <czajkowski> popey: does sound work ?
[13:54] <popey> dunno, lemme try
[13:55]  * popey pokes Nafallo 
[13:56] <popey> czajkowski: yes, sound works
[13:56] <popey> volume keys work
[13:56] <popey> what else was broken previously?
[13:57] <czajkowski> that was it..
[13:57] <czajkowski> whoo I can now skype the mothership
[13:57] <czajkowski> who knew being able to skype her would make me hapy
[13:58] <madfish> skype may be closed source and horribly proprietary, but it does make families happy....
[13:58] <czajkowski> madfish: it really does tbh
[13:59] <popey> czajkowski: I'll install skype and test that
[13:59] <czajkowski> and sometimes one needs to just be able to communicate without the drama of explainin about closed source things
[13:59] <czajkowski> popey: thanks
[13:59] <madfish> czajkowski: very true :)
[14:01] <dwatkins> I wish there was a equivalent to Skype which used SIP.
[14:02] <popey> dwatkins: gizmo?
[14:02] <Azelphur> dwatkins: http://icanblink.com/
[14:02] <popey> oh, discontinued :(
[14:02] <madfish> dwatkins: asterisk can do video iirc
[14:02] <Azelphur> indeed, gizmo died :P
[14:02] <Azelphur> check out blink :D
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0R01gP3m0 don't blink!
[14:02] <popey> was killed more like :(
[14:02] <madfish> google bought gizmo then killed it
[14:03] <madfish> (possibly)
[14:03] <dwatkins> sorry, I should have been more specific, I wish there was an application and a company which provided really-easy-to-setup SIP communication from any desktop PC running linux, windoze or OS X
[14:03] <popey> :)
[14:03] <popey> Facetime :)
[14:03] <dwatkins> google talk seems to work well, though
[14:03] <popey> eventually
[14:03] <Azelphur> dwatkins: that is blink
[14:03] <madfish> ekiga?
[14:03] <hamitron> does the skype stuff in pidgin work now?
[14:03] <dwatkins> oh cool, I'll check it out, thanks Azelphur
[14:04] <madfish> actually, ekiga is windows and linux
[14:04] <dwatkins> ekiga wouldn't work last time I tried to configure it
[14:05] <madfish> didn't realise it did windows
[14:09] <popey> czajkowski: this laptop isn't exactly quick is it :)
[14:10] <czajkowski> popey: it was on Karmic :s
[14:10] <czajkowski> hactually hardy
[14:10] <czajkowski> sorry when I bought it
[14:10] <czajkowski> what ever the last LTS was
[14:10] <popey> might be worth trying unity2d
[14:10] <popey> 8.04
[14:10] <popey> hardy
[14:10] <czajkowski> hardy so
[14:10] <AlanBell> unity-2d is surprisingly good
[14:10] <czajkowski> all that laptop is used for is for travelling and skype tbh
[14:10] <czajkowski> so if you think 2d would be faster
[14:11] <czajkowski> I trust your opinion
[14:11] <AlanBell> "gosh this is quick" good on a Dell P4 from 2002
[14:11] <popey> I'll install it and have a play
[14:11] <popey> its only an apt-get away
[14:11] <AlanBell> just do it anyway, it gives you another option on the login menu
[14:11] <popey> yeah
[14:12] <popey> anyone fancy skyping me to test this laptop?
[14:13] <AlanBell> sure, just signed in
[14:13] <JGJones> Ekiga's problem is that it use OPAL for video codecs - so in Ubuntu it is limited to just H.261
[14:13] <JGJones> it doesn't use gstreamer
[14:14] <JGJones> however on Windows, it does use H263 and H264.
[14:15] <AlanBell> I see popey
[14:17] <czajkowski> :)
[14:17] <AlanBell> sound is a bit of a struggle
[14:17] <dwatkins> JGJones: the one thing people cite with skype is the ease of use, I've not found a SIP client that just works like that, sadly
[14:19] <hamitron> :/
[14:23]  * suprengr running Unity 2D on a Dell Dimension [old] & finds it as fast as a fast thing going fast.
[14:24]  * suprengr also running it on early Acer Aspire One - ditto
[14:24] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/popey.png
[14:24] <czajkowski> oi thats sams hat
[14:24] <czajkowski> :)
[14:24] <andylockran> hey guys!
[14:25] <andylockran> Made it to the Porterhouse on Thursday, but didn't get there til around 2300, and didn't recognise anyone.  First time I've been at the correct venue on a release party though.. maybe next time eh?
[14:26] <AlanBell> oops andylockran!
[14:26] <AlanBell> went earlier than that as I had a train to get
[14:26] <czajkowski> and food
[14:26] <czajkowski> :p
[14:28] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/popey.png
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: cute pic
[14:29] <hamitron> put the ubuntu hat on to hide bad hair? ;/
[14:30] <popey> yes
[14:30] <popey> exactly
[14:30] <hamitron> hehe
[14:31] <hamitron> is that using the proper skype client?
[14:31] <popey> yes
[14:31] <popey> i am evil
[14:31] <popey> etc
[14:32] <hamitron> no, I was just asking out of interest
[14:32] <hamitron> :)
[14:32] <czajkowski> popey: at least it's on a native Ubuntu machine :)
[14:32] <popey> it isnt
[14:32] <hamitron> I am all for closed source apps personally, if the distributer feels that way
[14:32] <popey> I'm on OSX
[14:32] <czajkowski> :o
[14:33] <czajkowski> popey: ahh thought it was the mini
[14:33] <popey> tested that and it does work
[14:33] <popey> but it seems to have trouble with video
[14:33] <hamitron> have you tried skype in pidgin?
[14:33] <popey> goes jittery when the camera is on
[14:34] <czajkowski> as llong as sound works thats the main thing
[14:34] <czajkowski> thank you
[14:34] <ana_> i think i upgraded to the latest ubuntu, 11.04 a few days ago. the theme didn't change then but today suddenly, i switched it on, and it has all changed, menus have disappeared, things are more difficult to find ... and i don't find a way to get it back ...
[14:34] <ana_> i've gone to "appearance". for a start ..
[14:35] <ana_> but i can't get the menu bar back on top of the screen with that
[14:36] <ana_> and the statux bar at the bottom, where my open programs used to be, are gone too
[14:36] <ana_> i'd like help to get those back ... please
[14:37] <czajkowski> ana_: menu is now at the side of the screen
[14:37] <ana_> yes i can see it there
[14:37] <czajkowski> ana_: if you want log out and change the theme to classic and you're ok
[14:37] <popey> !classic
[14:37] <lubotu3`> The default interface in Ubuntu 11.04 is !Unity. You can switch back to regular !Gnome by logging out and clicking on your user name, in the Session box at the bottom of the screen select Ubuntu Classic.
[14:38] <ana_> thanks will try that - thank you all!
[14:38] <hamitron> is it a good idea changing back is Markie wants to remove it in the next version?
[14:38] <hamitron> s/is/if
[14:38] <ali1234> yes
[14:38] <Nafallo> popey: hi. let me know in private, cause I'm a little bit busy now.
[14:39] <popey> Nafallo: server down
[14:39] <popey> mirror
[14:39] <hamitron> ali1234: just thinking back to me never moving off the classic start menu from windows 95..... I have found the jump to windows 7 rather tough
[14:40] <hamitron> kinda of wish I had made the effort to get used to the new XP menu
[14:40] <ali1234> hamitron: w7 still supports classic star menu
[14:40] <hamitron> it does?
[14:40] <ali1234> oh my mistake
[14:40] <ali1234> you have to download thrid party add on
[14:41] <hamitron> well, I've spent a few weeks suffering the pain to get to "know" it
[14:41] <hamitron> so damage is done
[14:41] <hamitron> ;)
[14:41] <ana_> seems to have worked, thank you _:)
[14:43] <ali1234> ah here we go
[14:43] <ali1234> you can do it without any third party software
[14:43] <popey> czajkowski: seems okay. what else needs installing / testing ?
[14:43] <ali1234> just make a shortcut folder, and put whatever you want in it
[14:43] <popey> wifi works, sound works, camera works. I've installed Unity 2D and thats the default for now, but you can switch on logon as you know
[14:44] <ali1234> just that windows users consider downloading random shareware apps from the internet "safer and better"
[14:44] <hamitron> ali1234: I think I am just getting lazier, leaving everything default these days
[14:44] <czajkowski> popey: thats it
[14:48] <czajkowski> popey: on the plus side, a clean install and no bugs to report :D
[14:49]  * hamitron is a huge fan of clean installs
[14:49] <hamitron> even if the main site advises you to upgrade
[14:49] <hamitron> ;/
[14:51] <Nafallo> popey: fixed
[14:51] <Nafallo> popey: remind me to swap out thttpd later this evening or so (in 3-4 hours)
[14:54] <czajkowski> Nafallo: all packed yet
[14:54] <ali1234> i just upgraded a machine to 10.04
[14:54] <ali1234> when i run update-grub i get this: /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: Couldn't find PV pv2. Check your device.map.
[14:54] <czajkowski> I really should eat some food other than peanut butter on toast
[14:55] <hamitron> honey on toast?
[15:03] <ali1234> oh hang on, i upgraded to 10.10
[15:03] <DJones> czajkowski: Peanut butter? Just chew on a chair leg, its the same piece of wood, but has slightly more flavour
[15:03] <ali1234> well, might as well go all the way to 11
[15:06] <Nafallo> czajkowski: I've been here for DAYS
[15:06] <Nafallo> czajkowski: as in, arrived Saturday afternoon.
[15:13] <JGJones> dwatkins, I agree...something like Skype is easy to use...however I *must* have a SIP/H323 client that works with open standards especially as defined by Total Converstaion in EU (for video/text/captioned relay)
[15:14] <JGJones> dwatkins, Ekiga is one client that already goes a long way to meet almost all, but lack of video codecs kills it
[15:16] <dwatkins> JGJones: yeah, I guess it needs a company to take responsibility and make a SIP client which is open but can be used with their network to make outgoing POTS calls with calling-cards you pay them for or something.
[15:19] <hamitron> is there a need for video most of the time? :/
[15:22] <Azelphur> hamitron: I'm still running that rsnapshot I started running last night XD
[15:22] <hamitron> hahaha
[15:22] <hamitron> nutter
[15:22] <hamitron> ;p
[15:22] <Azelphur> this is totally one way to test if your ISP has a FUP :D
[15:23] <hamitron> yeh
[15:23] <Azelphur> 1MB/sec flat out for the past 14 hours and counting :p
[15:23] <hamitron> but is it really needed? ;/
[15:23] <Azelphur> hamitron: are backups really needed? silly question is silly :o
[15:24] <hamitron> yeh, but backups of that kinda are normally not done by a home user? ;/
[15:24] <Azelphur> backups are needed even if it's one user, let alone if it's ~30,000
[15:24] <hamitron> kind*
[15:24] <Azelphur> hamitron: true :p
[15:24] <hamitron> also, for that amount I would also pay someone at the other end to put on dvd-r for me
[15:24] <hamitron> ;D
[15:24] <Azelphur> hamitron: *shrug* it's only 40GB once
[15:25] <Azelphur> after the initial backup it only downloads incremental changes
[15:25] <hamitron> only 40Gb......
[15:25] <hamitron> ;/
[15:25] <Azelphur> so it'll just be like 200MB/day or something
[15:25] <dwatkins> My limit used to be 20 GB up or down.
[15:25] <dwatkins> That's per month.
[15:25] <Azelphur> haha :p
[15:25] <Azelphur> I switched to sky, they don't have a FUP
[15:25] <hamitron> mine is 60Gb down
[15:25] <dwatkins> I switched to unlimited because we kept breaking it.
[15:25] <Azelphur> hehe :p
[15:25] <hamitron> Azelphur: they really have "no" FUP? ;/
[15:25] <Azelphur> hamitron: yep.
[15:26] <hamitron> that will change if people like you keep appearing
[15:26] <hamitron> ;)
[15:26] <DJones> hamitron: Yep, Sky broadband is unlimited
[15:26] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://www.sky.com/shop/terms-conditions/broadband/
[15:26] <Azelphur> "Please note that this Fair Usage Network Management Policy does not apply to Sky Broadband Everyday Lite or Sky Broadband Unlimited."
[15:26] <Azelphur> :D
[15:27] <dwatkins> I think BT's limit is actuall 300 GB when you're on their most expensive "unlimited" Broadband package.
[15:27] <dwatkins> *actually
[15:27] <dwatkins> I'll switch to BeThere as soon as I can, though.
[15:27] <Azelphur> dwatkins: I usually burn that in one month, including back when I was on 60GB peak unlimited off peak
[15:27] <Azelphur> so I managed to do 300GB between midnight and 8am weekdays, and weekends :P
[15:28] <hamitron> may I ask, wtf you download?
[15:28] <hamitron> ;/
[15:28] <Azelphur> hamitron: everything!
[15:28] <hamitron> and how you store it?
[15:28] <Azelphur> hamitron: I just keep buying 1TB+ HDDs
[15:28] <dwatkins> Download or stream?
[15:28] <Azelphur> I have 2x1TB and a 2TB
[15:28] <Azelphur> I'll probably be needing another 2TB before long
[15:29] <dwatkins> What sort of content are we talking here, if I may be so bold as to ask, Azelphur?
[15:29] <hamitron> Azelphur: you must delete something then
[15:29] <Azelphur> dwatkins: I'm a self admitted pirate :p
[15:29] <Azelphur> hamitron: I never delete anything xD
[15:29] <dwatkins> Azelphur: ah, I won't touch on that subject again then
[15:29] <hamitron> but if you download 400Gb per month.....
[15:29] <Azelphur> dwatkins: but I do get other stuff too, I watch cc movies as well and I play a bunch of games all of which usually have insanely large updates
[15:29] <hamitron> and you have only a few hdd
[15:29] <hamitron> ;/
[15:30] <Azelphur> hamitron: I also stream radio and TV
[15:30] <hamitron> ah
[15:30] <dwatkins> I don't pirate software, because I'd be hurting my own employer's bottom line if I did.
[15:30] <hamitron> TV will be bad I guess
[15:30] <dwatkins> and because it's wrong and all that, but I'm not lecturing.
[15:31] <Azelphur> hamitron: but 400GB/month on with a total of 4TB is nearly a year, it's not that far out dude :)
[15:31] <dwatkins> anyway, I said I wouldn't talk about it so I'll shush :)
[15:31] <Azelphur> dwatkins: yea, I usually don't pirate software
[15:31] <dwatkins> talking of storage, I plan on getting a Drobo.
[15:31] <Azelphur> I bought all my games legit, I own minecraft etc
[15:31] <hamitron> I like to buy stuff tbh :/
[15:31] <Azelphur> Most of the stuff I download is stuff I couldn't purchase legally even if I wanted to
[15:32] <Azelphur> Because it's not available in this country / not out on DVD yet etc
[15:32] <hamitron> "yet" ;/
[15:32] <hamitron> I do download stuff, but buy as soon as it is offered :)
[15:33] <Azelphur> I would do that, but DVD encryption and region locking has put me off that idea, I'd rather boycott it :p
[15:33] <hamitron> I do have a huge problem with paying for "download only" things though
[15:33]  * hamitron just stays with region 2
[15:33] <Azelphur> I don't, if there was a legit way for me to get all my TV shows and DVD releases direct from the web I'd do it
[15:33] <Azelphur> but there's nothing like that :(
[15:34] <hamitron> I like to buy that "physical" disk
[15:34] <hamitron> :)
[15:34] <Azelphur> I don't, I like having space in my bedroom :D
[15:34] <hamitron> fancy cover and case too
[15:34] <hamitron> well yes, I do have a slight problem....
[15:34] <hamitron> I got about 100 pc games with the old style "big box"
[15:35] <hamitron> and they are spread across 2 rooms in teh house
[15:35] <hamitron> and I can't flatten them, as I like to keep everything "as new" with all the paper slips and receipts :/
[15:36] <hamitron> I have a right mess here \o/
[15:37] <Azelphur> hamitron: ignoring my movie collection, if I was to purchase my TV collection alone on DVD, it would be approximately 224 DVDs
[15:37] <hamitron> I suppose renting some, then buying the slect few you really want is best
[15:37] <hamitron> select*
[15:38] <Azelphur> so if I had a DVD shelf with 3 rows, and they was all standard size DVD cases, I'd have to have a huge 1 meter wide cabinet to make it happen
[15:38] <hamitron> Azelphur: you can put them in boxes
[15:38] <hamitron> and rip them onto your comp yourself
[15:38] <Azelphur> and it'd cost me around £2,240 if each DVD was £10, which I think is an under estimate
[15:39] <Azelphur> hamitron: ripping to the comp is illegal now isn't it?
[15:39] <hamitron> technically, but it is better than downloading them
[15:39] <hamitron> ;/
[15:39] <Azelphur> not really, illegal is illegal
[15:39] <hamitron> if they sue my ass for ripping dvd I bought for personal use, to ease storage, it wouldn't look good
[15:40] <hamitron> since I bought them for personal use
[15:40] <hamitron> and they got the money for it
[15:40] <Azelphur> lets factor my movie collection in too, that's another ~106 DVDs ignoring box sets / extra dvds :p
[15:40] <Azelphur> that'd bring my DVD case up to 1.5 meters wide
[15:41] <Azelphur> at an approximate cost of £3,300
[15:41] <hamitron> I only pay £3 max, for a dvd.....
[15:41] <Azelphur> hamitron: even at £3/DVD that's still £990
[15:42] <hamitron> yeh
[15:42] <hamitron> and?
[15:42] <Azelphur> then you've got other stuff to worry about like the DVD's getting scratched and you having to rebuy
[15:42] <hamitron> ;/
[15:42] <hamitron> not if you rip them
[15:42] <hamitron> ;)
[15:42] <Azelphur> which is illegal :P
[15:42] <hamitron> and ripping your own dvd is not stealing
[15:42] <hamitron> it is just slight misuse
[15:42] <Azelphur> yea it is it requires circumvention of copyright protection which is a DMCA violation
[15:43] <hamitron> putting a brick through a window is illegal, so is shooting loads of people on the street...... they don't compare
[15:43] <Azelphur> hamitron: your right they don't, the guy who puts a brick through a window usually gets away with it :)
[15:43] <Laney> DMCA?!?!?!?!?! what country are we in?
[15:44] <Azelphur> Laney: haha, good question :p
[15:44] <hamitron> I don't care legally anyway, I just buy things because I wouldn't want people taking my work for free. makes me feel better
[15:44] <Azelphur> I get that by spending my money on more cool things made by people who arn't asses :p
[15:45] <Azelphur> eg buying humble indie bundle for $50
[15:45] <Azelphur> and minecraft :D
[15:45] <hamitron> Azelphur: you could vote with your feet, and not use the items from major software companys
[15:45] <hamitron> ;)
[15:46] <hamitron> or movies, or music
[15:46] <Azelphur> hamitron: I do, I don't pay them :D
[15:46] <hamitron> or hardware even
[15:46] <hamitron> ah, but that is not the same
[15:46] <hamitron> :)
[15:46] <Azelphur> pfft
[15:46] <hamitron> by not using their stuff, you are showing you are principled enough to do without
[15:47] <Azelphur> yea, I am starting to get to the point where I'll be able to do that :D
[15:47] <Azelphur> it'll be nice when youtube tv comes along
[15:48] <hamitron> streaming isn't really an option for me
[15:48] <hamitron> :/
[15:49] <Azelphur> hamitron: *shrug* can always pause n buffer with youtube
[15:49] <Azelphur> or just youtube-dl
[15:49] <Azelphur> and it's heavily bandwith optimized so it'll be faster to download/buffer than anything else.
[15:49] <hamitron> and if I got more internet connections to make it so, I couldn't afford the dvd's with shiny covers and cases ;)
[15:49] <Azelphur> haha :D
[15:49] <hamitron> SHINY
[15:49] <hamitron> ;D
[15:49] <Azelphur> hamitron: I have a computer for my shiny kicks :)
[15:49] <hamitron> so i win I think
[15:49] <hamitron> pfffffft
[15:50] <hamitron> taking a power station's worth of power
[15:50] <Azelphur> shiny :p
[15:50] <hamitron> windy ;p
[15:50] <hamitron> hair blowing in the air currents caused by your comp
[15:50] <hamitron> haha
[15:51] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/April%202011/IMG_20110502_154710.jpg shiny :P
[15:52] <hamitron> dull ;p http://www.hamitron.demon.co.uk/pics/lappy.jpg
[15:53] <Azelphur> hamitron: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/Dell_XPS_M1730_Singapore.jpg shiny :P
[15:53] <hamitron> I like a shiny I can put in a box when I sleep :/
[15:53] <hamitron> then leave my quiet comp running
[15:53] <hamitron> :)
[15:54] <popey> wow, size of that fan
[15:54] <Azelphur> a computer in a box what?
[15:54] <Azelphur> popey: the top one? :)
[15:54] <popey> yeah
[15:54] <popey> monster
[15:54] <Azelphur> yea, it's 200mm
[15:54] <hamitron> Azelphur: dvd's are shiny and can be put in a box while my comp is left running
[15:54] <hamitron> ;)
[15:54] <Azelphur> all the fans are pretty big so I can run them really slow. It's very quiet :)
[15:55] <hamitron> my target is fanless
[15:55] <hamitron> :/
[15:55] <Azelphur> hehe
[15:55] <popey> i need quieter fans
[15:55] <hamitron> and it is gonna happen
[15:55] <Azelphur> popey: you won't like the fans I just bought for my water cooling system then, haha :D
[15:55] <popey> heh
[15:55] <hamitron> the grid of fans you mean? ;)
[15:56] <Azelphur> hamitron: yea :p
[15:56] <hamitron> I didn't realise you still had a stock cooler
[15:56] <Azelphur> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb-0usGR-Ok I got 4 of these :)
[15:56] <hamitron> although, my stock cooler seems fine
[15:56] <hamitron> :)
[15:56] <Azelphur> skip to 3:00 for the short version
[15:56] <czajkowski> I really wish there was a way to turn off twitter on linkined
[15:56] <czajkowski> :s
[15:57] <Azelphur> hamitron: yea, my stock cooler isn't fine, I'm switching off of it soon
[15:57] <hamitron> czajkowski: we will soon live in a virtual world with everything integrated forcibly :/
[15:57] <Pendulum> czajkowski: you can't remove it?
[15:58] <hamitron> Azelphur: does yours have a copper base?
[15:58] <czajkowski> Pendulum: not found a way to block yet
[15:58] <Pendulum> czajkowski: that sucks.
[15:58] <czajkowski> Pendulum: I've an evil bf :) http://twitter.com/#!/filace/status/64820876457152512
[15:58] <Azelphur> hamitron: yea
[15:58] <Pendulum> now I'm glad I never put my twitter on there to begin with
[15:58] <hamitron> Azelphur: mine doesn't :/
[15:58] <hamitron> I was worried at first, but seems fine
[15:59] <Azelphur> czajkowski: hahaha
[16:09] <DraKBLuE> hi all
[16:15] <Azelphur> Are there any free alternatives to ksplice? :p
[16:20] <AlanBell> yeah, rebooting!
[16:25] <Azelphur> AlanBell: besides that xD
[16:31] <hamitron> Azelphur: what you got that can't be rebooted because it is too critical?
[16:31] <hamitron> teh game server?
[16:31] <Azelphur> yep
[16:31] <hamitron> hehe
[16:31] <Azelphur> game server / irc server / websites
[16:31] <Azelphur> ZNC takes ages to sync with that many users, a reboot would take at least 15 minutes
[16:32] <hamitron> suppose you could get a 2nd server, and maybe put the ircd on a vps
[16:32] <hamitron> then move the vps between servers?
[16:33] <hamitron> or is there a way to transfer the "state" of it to a temp rig?
[16:33] <AlanBell> until you want to update the kernel inside the VPS
[16:33] <hamitron> true
[16:33] <AlanBell> why not use ksplice?
[16:33] <Azelphur> AlanBell: they charge, I'm being cheap :(
[16:35] <AlanBell> install the desktop kernel on the server
[16:35] <Azelphur> how do you do that? :P
[16:36] <AlanBell> just install the package I think
[16:36] <Azelphur> interesting
[16:36] <hamitron> ircd could be got around by moving users to another server in advance, surely?
[16:36] <Azelphur> hamitron: at best it'd be a netsplit :/
[16:37] <hamitron> why would it?
[16:37] <Azelphur> because that's what happens when you shut down one node on an IRC network?
[16:37] <hamitron> if no users were on the server, no harm done
[16:38] <Azelphur> that's called having an empty server? XD
[16:38] <hamitron> yeh
[16:38] <Azelphur> that's...useless?
[16:38] <hamitron> empty it 2 days in advance
[16:38] <hamitron> reboot, then refill
[16:38] <Azelphur> (16:36:52) Azelphur: hamitron: at best it'd be a netsplit :/
[16:39] <hamitron> but no user would know....
[16:39] <hamitron> not like you are kicking them off
[16:39] <Azelphur> yea they would? how else would you get them to move
[16:39] <hamitron> change dns
[16:40] <Azelphur> people don't reconnect to IRC every 5 seconds I hate to tell you :p
[16:40] <Azelphur> most people use BNC's/servers with irssi
[16:40] <hamitron> it isn't a net split if you just shut down the server
[16:40] <Azelphur> yes it is
[16:40] <Azelphur> everyone on that server gets disconnected
[16:40] <hamitron> you don't have users split across multiple server
[16:40] <Azelphur> and they would then reconnect and join the other one
[16:41] <hamitron> it would take them less than 1 second....
[16:41] <Azelphur> so as I said that's a netsplit lol
[16:42] <hamitron> I consider a netsplit where the link is broken, so users are seperated
[16:42] <Azelphur> lol
[16:43] <hamitron> forcing users to terminate their connection allows them to reconnect to the other server instantly
[16:43] <Azelphur> I consider shutting down the server while people are using it silly :p
[16:43] <tombrough> is it me or has gb.archive.ubuntu.com just disappeared off the face ofthe earth?
[16:43] <Azelphur> tbh it should be a stock thing in server distributions, it kinda voids the whole point of a server if your expected to continually reboot :D
[16:44] <hamitron> I suppose another option is to use a custom kernel
[16:44] <Azelphur> tombrough: seems down for me
[16:44] <tombrough> dns lookup doesn't even return ip address
[16:44] <hamitron> then only replace it with a new one, when something you know needs fixing, is fixed
[16:44] <Azelphur> tombrough: does for me
[16:45] <hamitron> but that requires effort
[16:45] <hamitron> :D
[16:46] <Azelphur> that confused me o.O
[16:46] <hamitron> a lot of kernel updates are often only changes to things you don't need
[16:46] <hamitron> or use
[16:47] <Azelphur> and some of them are security patches o.o
[16:47] <hamitron> the security ones are ones you need
[16:48] <Azelphur> I know?
[16:48] <hamitron> if the security patch is for something in your kernel anyway
[16:49] <hamitron> I'd personally just use dns records
[16:49] <Azelphur> dns records solve nothing :p
[16:50] <hamitron> it minimises the effects
[17:18] <hamitron> bbl, off out into garage
[17:32] <BananaMan> question: I'm packaging an application and would like it to appear in the classic menu (10.10).  Is a .desktop file all I need to do this?
[17:46] <ahayzen> @BananaMan ... I am doing a similar thing (probably a few stages behind) .. but i found that if you added a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications then it will appear ... u just need to then have the right destination for the command eg. in /usr/bin/xxx .. then as long as the script from there points to your project .. which could be in eg. /usr/lib/ .. then it should work :) But i'm not perfectly sure..as I haven't go
[17:46] <ahayzen> t to that stage yet but that is my understanding of how they system works. Hope that helps Andy
[17:53] <Azelphur> ali1234: my server fails the quick n dirty memtest86 on this page http://rimuhosting.com/knowledgebase/linux/misc/quick-and-dirty-memtest86
[17:53] <Azelphur> I get 3 different md5sums :(
[17:53] <Azelphur> you agree that = 100% broken memory? :p
[17:56] <popey> Azelphur: doesnt look good
[17:56] <Azelphur> indeed :(
[17:56] <Azelphur> I ran that test and got 3 different md5sums.
[17:57] <popey> so i saw :)
[17:57] <Azelphur> oh yea, I already said that. oops.
[18:33] <Azelphur> fired off a mail to my host, the fun begins \o/
[18:34] <popey> Azelphur: get them to yank the ram from another customer :)
[18:35] <Azelphur> haha :D
[18:39] <Azelphur> http://i.imgur.com/1tyfj.jpg \o/
[18:45] <popey> heh
[18:53] <BananaMan> When packaging, how do I get an application into the gnome classic menu?
[18:54] <ali1234> put a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications
[18:55] <BananaMan> is the .desktop file sufficient on it's own, or do I need to do something to refresh the menus?
[18:55] <ali1234> .desktop should be enough
[18:55] <BananaMan> ok
[18:55] <ali1234> the classic menu widget watches all the directories for new .desktop files
[19:02] <BananaMan> How often does the menu widget poll?
[19:03] <BananaMan> Should I be waiting for a while, or does it update more or less instantaneously?
[19:38] <ali1234> BananaMan: it uses inotify or whatever i guess, so it should be instant
[19:41] <zleap> hi 11.04 looks nice,  ok i lack unity due to hardware being older but just booted up a  live cd
[20:06] <popey> zleap: tried unity-2d?
[20:14] <zleap> er nope
[20:14] <zleap> do i need to install that from a live cd or when i install it
[20:19] <hamitron> bk
[20:19] <hamitron> :D
[20:24] <zleap> wb hamitron
[20:28] <hamitron> wow, yahoo have a new webmail interface again
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> people use yahoo's webmail?
[20:29] <hamitron> yeh :)
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> 3 or 4, worldwide? :P
[20:29] <hamitron> I've kept my original email address and mobile number
[20:30] <hamitron> as I find it annoying when everyone changes them all the time
[20:30] <hamitron> :)
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: So have I.. but I moved mail handling to Google Apps :)
[20:31] <hamitron> I go use google apps for most email, but it just forwards to my yahoo
[20:31] <hamitron> :/
[20:31] <Neoti> hi all ... need help .... upgraded ubuntu to 11.04 and my compiz has messed up ... can some one tell me how to reset compiz to defaultfs so i can set up how i had it before... i can not move windows or nothing ....
[20:31] <hamitron> s/go/do
[20:32] <Neoti> i should point out im in ubuntu clasic now as did not like unity
[20:34] <ali1234> people use yahoo because they do not like gmail's threading, and prefer to just top post
[20:34] <ali1234> this was told to me by a yahoo user
[20:34] <ali1234> i'm not making it up
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I _love_ gmail's threading
[20:35] <hamitron> threading? ;/
[20:35] <ali1234> i know right
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I also love "Send & Archive"
[20:35] <hamitron> I just like an inbox that email arrives in
[20:35] <ali1234> but there is a certain type of person who does not actually want to read emails
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: well it shows related messages together, in proper sequence. I don't need more
[20:35] <hamitron> oh, I like date order
[20:35] <ali1234> they just hit reply and write "OK" on the top without reading it
[20:35] <ali1234> yahoo is designed for such people
[20:36] <ali1234> that's who is using it
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah, my project manager at work
[20:36] <ali1234> for these people gmail's threading makes it harder to do what they do
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> yes, they should pay attention :)
[20:36] <gord> evening' guys
[20:36] <ali1234> or so i'm told
[20:38] <hamitron> doesn't gmail have date order?
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: always
[20:40] <hamitron> I stick with yahoo mostly because I am too lazy to change all my accounts I have signed up online
[20:40] <hamitron> :)
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: that's why I have my own domain :)
[20:41] <ali1234> what should i do when an upgrade fails part way?
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: Everything just mails there.. and I can redirect it at will :)
[20:41] <ali1234> oh it's grub-probe again
[20:41] <hamitron> MartijnVdS: I so want to get to that
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: So do it :)\
[20:43] <hamitron> I'm never even sure if I have an account when I go somewhere :/
[20:43] <hamitron> need to spend maybe 3-6 months noting down all my accounts I login to
[20:56] <fred_> eveing all
[21:02] <Neoti> can someone help i dont no how to enable my desktop effects... i right click the desktop click on change desktop and  Visual Effects are not there ... the upgrade his kinda scroded my desktop up a little ....
[21:02] <Neoti> can some one please help me
[21:15] <suprengr> Neoti - u tried installing compiz settings manager?
[21:16] <Neoti> i had that installed before the update... i have managed to get most of the settings back but all i want to do now is right click desktop > click visual effects and slect the last one in the list like i did on 10.10 ... however its not there... all i want to enable now are the standard desktop effects from that option if that makes sense
[21:20] <suprengr> Neoti - check ccsm is not broken [reinstall if needed] but as far as I have so far found on 1104 the right click option on desktop doesn't offer that [& cant remember a version that did actually]
[21:22] <suprengr> Neoti [but there then again... I'm on very basic [intel on-board] graphics]
[21:23] <Neoti> this is the tab i mean ... http://www.crankup.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/appearance.jpg
[21:23] <Neoti> i want to enable the extra settings that is all ... then my desktop is back to how it was
[21:23] <Neoti> simples
[21:23] <ali1234> that tab was removed in 11.04
[21:24] <Neoti> so how do i enable  them then ?
[21:24] <ali1234> select classic on login screen
[21:24] <Neoti> i am using the clasic view as did not like the unity thing....
[21:24] <Neoti> and this screen is now there
[21:24] <ali1234> it was remvoed
[21:25] <czajkowski> anyone heard of http://www.fubra.com/
[21:26] <suprengr> ali1234 - that's why I don't remember a version where it was there... my brain currently not going back that far ;)
[21:26] <ali1234> you can't remember 1 month ago?
[21:27] <suprengr> [sssh]
[21:27]  * suprengr hides head in shame
[21:36]  * jacobw is connnected on a netbook tethered to EDGE
[21:38] <suprengr> thinking of desktop bits no longer here... who nicked the current weather indicator gone from time & date in 'panel'?
[21:38] <jacobw> ~6kbps
[21:38] <jacobw> i miss that as well suprengr
[21:43] <Neoti> ok so i have most of the stuff back... but not impressed..... its taken me 10 hours to do this upgrade and get settings bakc etc ..... !!!!! its not put me off ubuntu ... but just not impressed at the moment..... i'll get over it tho ... still some of the features i like ... so all in all i think its good .... upgrade could have gone a little more smoothly ... hehe.......
[21:45] <jacobw> !ping
[21:45] <lubotu3`> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
[21:48] <suprengr> [next line from lubotu3` probably nicks my favourite comeback... "gives me a headache just thinking down to your level]
[21:50]  * suprengr hugs his Douglas adams books
[21:55]  * jacobw has just moved in to his new place
[22:01]  * suprengr sends jacobw a virtual bottle of home warming party wine
[22:04] <jacobw> :)
[22:05] <zleap> any idea if start up disk creator can creat dual boot start up disks
[22:06] <zleap> so i can put both 32 and 64 bit ubuntu on 1 2gb or bigger device
[22:06] <AlanBell> yes
[22:07] <zleap> cool
[22:07] <zleap> so just put a 2nd iso on to it, and don't select erase media
[22:07] <popey> uhm
[22:07] <popey> you would need two partitions surely?
[22:07] <AlanBell> hmm, I might have misunderstood the question
[22:07] <AlanBell> I did
[22:08]  * daubers ponders trying Kubuntu again for a little bit
[22:08] <zleap> AlanBelll like you have with cover cd's you get a menu so you can choose which distro to try out
[22:08] <AlanBell> I may or may not have been correct, I have no idea :)
[22:09] <zleap> i am guesing however that it just copies the contents of the iso to the disk,  so if I copy to 2 directories e.g ubuntu11.04-32 and ubuntu11.04-64 and perhaps install grub and point the config file to the right place
[22:14] <zleap> i will suggest it for the next dclug meet as a mini project
[22:24] <jacobw> daubers: i've tried kde again recently, gnome just works
[22:29] <daubers> jacobw: That was my experience last time
[22:30]  * jacobw is an ex-kde fanboi
[22:31] <jacobw> in the 3.x days :|
[22:31] <daubers> KDE just seems to eat so much screen space :(
[22:31] <hamitron> if so many are against the changes, won't old versions be maintained?
[22:31] <hamitron> :/
[22:31] <jacobw> er..
[22:31] <jacobw> no
[22:31] <hamitron> why?
[22:32] <daubers> hamitron: The people upset with the changes are just those who shout loudest :) Most of the devs want the changes so the old stuff won't get maintained
[22:32] <hamitron> then the noisey buggers can learn what they've taken for granted?
[22:32] <hamitron> ;)
[22:33] <daubers> There isn't an ∞number of devs
[22:33] <hamitron> yeh :/
[22:33] <hamitron> but if there are enough wanting something, there would be
[22:34] <daubers> Says something about the people making the noise really
[22:34] <jacobw> it isn't exciting so it would get done
[22:34] <jacobw> *wouldn't
[22:34] <hamitron> jacobw: maybe a good point that actually
[22:34] <hamitron> :)
[22:34] <daubers> I'm waiting until my desktop is openCL accelerated :)
[22:34] <hamitron> you only work on something to get it "working", the polishing is tough to motivate yourself
[22:35] <jacobw> CL?
[22:35] <daubers> !info python-opencl
[22:35] <lubotu3`> Package python-opencl does not exist in maverick
[22:35] <daubers> :(
[22:35] <Hornet> all desktop envs are going to hell in a handcart tbh
[22:35] <ali1234> !info python-pyopencl
[22:35] <hamitron> like CUDA style?
[22:35] <lubotu3`> python-pyopencl (source: pyopencl): module to access OpenCL parallel computation API. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.92~beta+git20100709-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 298 kB, installed size 1428 kB (Only available for amd64 i386)
[22:35] <Hornet> nowhere is safe
[22:35] <jacobw> i think people will be using gnome 2.30 for a few years yet
[22:35] <daubers> ali1234: Ta
[22:36] <jacobw> i will be anyway on my machines running debian stable
[22:36] <daubers> Be interesting to see which way debian swing
[22:37] <hamitron> if enough users don't make the switch, major financial contributors will step in to provide what that load of users want I'd guess
[22:37] <Hornet> tbh the speed they update it'll be decades before anyone notices anyway
[22:37] <jacobw> you mean unity or shell?
[22:37] <daubers> jacobw: Indeed
[22:37] <jacobw> almost certainly shell..
[22:37] <Hornet> hopefully ubuntu will go back to gnome soon
[22:37] <Hornet> can't see it happening though
[22:37] <hamitron> daubers: you hoping for the "boring way"? ;)
[22:37] <jacobw> ubuntu hasn't departed from gnome
[22:38] <daubers> hamitron: I actually quite like Unity
[22:38] <hamitron> actually, since debian 6.0 is kinda new, it can't be moving anywhere fast
[22:38] <Hornet> seems it... unless there's a gubuntu hiding somewhere
[22:38] <daubers> hamitron: Took me a few weeks to get used to it, but I get a bit lost on a standard gnome desktop now
[22:38] <ali1234> i like the shell but when ever i point this out i get told "ubuntu is supposed to be for everyone not just what you want"
[22:39] <hamitron> daubers: I will give it a go when the next LTS comes out for sure, as there is no OS I am super happy with atm
[22:39] <jacobw> ali1234: which means "i like it how it is so stfu"
[22:39] <daubers> hamitron: Based on how far it came this release, end of next release should be amazing
[22:40] <hamitron> then I can't wait :)
[22:40] <jacobw> 12.04 will be a great LTS
[22:40] <daubers> hamitron: Did you try the early alphas?
[22:40] <jacobw> unity/wayland/cloudy stuff
[22:40] <hamitron> daubers: I haven't been on 10.04 6 months yet
[22:40] <hamitron> still on 8.04 on some machines
[22:40] <jacobw> hamitron is behind the curve
[22:40] <hamitron> :/
[22:41] <hamitron> if I get much more behind, I'll loose sight of the curve ;)
[22:41] <daubers> hamitron: Seriously, Unity has come on leaps and bounds in the last 6 months, it's kinda staggering how fast its moved
[22:42] <ali1234> i hear the same thing about empathy too
[22:42] <hamitron> my guess is, by the time they have 3d sorted in the open source nvidia drivers, ubuntu won't run on my hardware with old cards anyway
[22:42] <ali1234> "it will improve loads when i we put it in by default"
[22:42] <ali1234> but none of the problems that prevent me from using it have been fixed yet
[22:43] <hamitron> I am just hoping ubuntu doesn't rush moving things on
[22:43] <hamitron> the harm it could do to the acceptance of linux on the desktop could be huge
[22:43] <ali1234> i wish they would move things forwards instead of backwards
[22:43] <daubers> I haven't actually used IM for personal use in about 2 years
[22:43] <gordonjcp> heh
[22:44] <gordonjcp> this is what I've been saying...
[22:44] <hamitron> a lot has improved in the acceptance in recent years
[22:44] <gordonjcp> hamitron: the Unity desktop is the best advert I've ever seen for Windows XP
[22:44] <daubers> I had to use WinXP today, forgotten how much had changed in 7/8 years
[22:44] <hamitron> at least MS will be pulling the plug on XP
[22:44] <hamitron> :)
[22:45] <gordonjcp> I can no longer recommend that non-techy users use Ubuntu
[22:45] <daubers> Noticed things like all the icons being non-resizeable and having noticable black outlines
[22:45] <gordonjcp> Unity is obviously designed for the uberl33t
[22:45] <ali1234> gordonjcp: no, unity is designed for people who only open one window of each app
[22:46] <gordonjcp> ali1234: and can remember the magic incantation to get there
[22:46] <daubers> gordonjcp: Click the thing in the top left you mean?
[22:46] <ali1234> it's also designed for people who never learn anything
[22:46] <ali1234> this is why there is only a search option
[22:46] <ali1234> and no real menu
[22:46] <hamitron> I guess the average user will now be more familiar with technology..... with phones and stuff, but are they ready for what has been done?
[22:46] <ali1234> it's because the designer assumes you cannot ever remember anything and so will prefer to use a slow search engine every time
[22:47] <gordonjcp> daubers: ... and then what?
[22:47] <ali1234> gordonjcp: then type what you want, wait for the indexing system to find it, then press return
[22:47] <hamitron> indexing? :/
[22:47] <gordonjcp> ali1234: see, that's what happens when you press alt-f2
[22:47] <gordonjcp> so you need to know the name of the thing you want
[22:47] <ali1234> gordonjcp: no, alt-f2 gives you a shell prompt
[22:47] <daubers> gordonjcp: Or click on the applications icon
[22:48] <gordonjcp> and you need to know that you have to type it in very slowly
[22:48] <gordonjcp> daubers: I don't know what that is
[22:48] <ali1234> the dash does a full text search of .desktop files
[22:48] <gordonjcp> daubers: is that one of the little squares
[22:48] <gordonjcp> ?
[22:48] <daubers> gordonjcp: Looks like a magnifying glass with a + in it
[22:48] <ali1234> so you don't have to type in "seahorse" to get password manager
[22:48] <gordonjcp> daubers: I don't know what that is
[22:48] <ali1234> you can type in "password" or "encryption" or "keys"
[22:48] <gordonjcp> ali1234: well that does kind of make sense
[22:48] <daubers> gordonjcp: Says "Applications" when you hover over it
[22:48] <hamitron> what if they user can't type?
[22:48] <gordonjcp> daubers: that's the only way I can use Unity, hover over everything until it decides to show a tooltip
[22:48] <hamitron> the*
[22:49] <ali1234> gordonjcp: it makes sense if you assume that users are idiots who neev the computer to help them find what they want every single time and can never learn for themselves
[22:49] <gordonjcp> daubers: assuming it ever does
[22:49] <gordonjcp> ali1234: the alt-f2 box does the same painfully slow searching thing
[22:49] <daubers> gordonjcp: Does so pretty instantly here...
[22:49] <hamitron> some people only type 1 char every 2 seconds
[22:49] <hamitron> :/
[22:49] <ali1234> gordonjcp: yes, i know, that's why i don't like to use that either
[22:49] <gordonjcp> daubers: right, but it takes a long time to go over every square
[22:49] <ali1234> gordonjcp: i prefer a menu with everything and not have the icons move around all the time
[22:50] <daubers> gordonjcp: Second from the bottom (ignoring the bin), thats where that one will  always be
[22:50] <gordonjcp> daubers: right, but still nothing is labelled
[22:50] <gordonjcp> it's all just little squares
[22:50] <daubers> gordonjcp: Once your in that menu, everything is labelled.
[22:51] <ali1234> that menu sucks
[22:51] <gordonjcp> daubers: right, but it's just bigger squares with a tiny label
[22:51] <gordonjcp> it's such a waste of screen real estate
[22:51] <gordonjcp> I'm only using a 1680x1050 monitor
[22:51] <ali1234> too much space wasted on "apps you might want to download but probably don't, otherwise you would have done by now"
[22:51]  * popey files bug 775925
[22:51] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 775925 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash appears momentarily after a lens closes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/775925
[22:51] <gordonjcp> how about ditching the squares altogether and just having the label, since that's the meaningful bit
[22:51] <ali1234> between that and the MRU, 2/3 of it is wasted with useless stuff
[22:52] <daubers> gordonjcp: To >90% of the world the icons can more easily identify with a program
[22:52] <gordonjcp> daubers: I can't see icons
[22:52] <ali1234> guess what, every single thing in the MRU is already pinned to the launcher anyway, because i use them all the time
[22:52] <gordonjcp> daubers: I'm dyslexic, it's quite a common thing
[22:52] <daubers> gordonjcp: If you just want text, why not just go back to an ncurses based desktop
[22:52] <gordonjcp> daubers: semiotics are wasted on me
[22:52] <gordonjcp> I can tell the firefox icon apart because it's mostly orange
[22:53] <daubers> *sigh*
[22:53] <popey> Are we in the matrix?
[22:53] <gordonjcp> daubers: "*sigh*" what?
[22:53] <ali1234> daubers: recommending a system where the only sane way to launch programs is to type the name over a system where the only sane way tolaunch applications is to type the name...?
[22:54] <gordonjcp> daubers: they've deliberately redesigned it to be unusable by a fair chunk of the population
[22:54] <daubers> "Nothing should ever change because I'm used to the old thing and you can't reproduce all of the features of the old thing instantly so I'll be grumpy and stomp my feat and complain but not actually provide any development assistance to add the features I want."
[22:54] <daubers> Otherwise known as NIMBY
[22:54] <hamitron> can't we just accept the freedom to choose, and choose? ;/
[22:54] <gordonjcp> good bloody riddance
[22:55] <gordonjcp> sorry, do I not have a legitimate reason to complain here/
[22:55] <popey> yes, you do not
[22:55] <ali1234> "it's different so it must be better"
[22:55] <popey> the right place to complain would be the ayatana project
[22:55] <popey> the design team
[22:55] <gordonjcp> popey: right, good, glad I could clear that up
[22:55] <popey> the desktop team
[22:55] <popey> or bugs
[22:55] <popey> ranting in here wont fix anything at all realistically will it?
[22:55] <ali1234> gordonjcp: best bet is buy a ticket to budapest and heckle during the keynote
[22:55] <gordonjcp> popey: since Unity is now as unusable to me as if it was one of those colour-blindness charts and I was colour blind
[22:55] <gordonjcp> ali1234: it's a thought
[22:55] <popey> hehe yes, do that ali1234
[22:56] <gordonjcp> I really wish I wasn't stuck supporting bloody Ubuntu
[22:56] <popey> there is an accessibility team who want to fix these issues too
[22:56] <gordonjcp> actually, you know what?  Sod Ubuntu
[22:56] <hamitron> you can use ubuntu as a core also, then add what you want around it
[22:56] <popey> That's the spirit!
[22:57] <ali1234> nobody wants to tweak ubuntu, as i pointed out the other day, if i wanted that, i would start with a distro where it is supported
[22:57] <hamitron> ali1234: you can use the distro/variation someone makes I suppose
[22:57] <hamitron> :/
[22:57] <gordonjcp> ali1234: well this is why I use Arch most of the time
[22:57] <ali1234> good luck getting anyone to look at your bugs if they don't affect unity
[22:58] <hamitron> backporting patches/bugfixes is another I suppose
[22:59] <hamitron> and sticking to old featured s/w
[22:59] <hamitron> there are always enthusiasts who stay behind
[22:59] <ali1234> i see a lot of question on AU about "program X won't show up on the launcher" - this is why i hate docks, too unpredictable
[23:00] <ali1234> keep the launcher and the window list separate and have an entry per window
[23:00] <ali1234> this is the only sensible way to do it
[23:00] <ali1234> even OS X does this
[23:00] <ali1234> even though they have a dock ...
[23:02] <hamitron> brb, need to click on avg install on comp downstairs
[23:04] <gordonjcp> right, launchpad deactivated
[23:04] <gordonjcp> have fun with unity ;-)
[23:05] <hamitron> bk
[23:06] <hamitron> so teh super key opens the list of icons on the left?
[23:06] <ali1234> sometimes
[23:06] <hamitron> :s
[23:07] <hamitron> can you disable searching files/folders on The Dash?
[23:07] <ali1234> sort of
[23:07] <hamitron> that sorta thing tends to overload my system(s)
[23:07] <ali1234> you can blacklist every single path in zeitgeist
[23:08] <hamitron> and I like the look of Workspaces
[23:08] <ali1234> the UI for it will still be there and the daemon will still run
[23:08] <hamitron> :)
[23:09] <ali1234> but it just won't work
[23:10] <hamitron> does anyone know how much launchpad charge for non-free software?
[23:10] <hamitron> I was wondering the other day, gordon reminded me of it
[23:13] <hamitron> oh, I've found it this time of looking
[23:13] <hamitron> :)
[23:13] <ali1234> so how much?
[23:13] <hamitron> $250/year/project
[23:13] <hamitron> plus VAT
[23:14] <hamitron> bargan? ;/
[23:14] <ali1234> not really
[23:14] <hamitron> yeh, I was messing
[23:14] <hamitron> :)
[23:14] <ali1234> do any other website use the launchpad code?
[23:15] <hamitron> dunno
[23:15] <hamitron> I just thought, it would be helpful been on launchpad
[23:15] <hamitron> something many people use
[23:16] <hamitron> sorta like paying to be in a directory
[23:18] <X3N> github is pretty cheap for private hosting
[23:19] <AlanBell> I would consider launchpad private hosting
[23:22] <X3N> why?
[23:22] <AlanBell> customer specific stuff
[23:23] <AlanBell> when doing an openERP deployment we might write some interesting new module that the world can benefit from, which would be totally open
[23:23] <AlanBell> but there is almost always going to be a module specific to the rollout with basically tweaks and settings in it
[23:24] <AlanBell> right now in a bzr tree on one of our servers
[23:47] <ali1234> what's the best way to try a recent gnome-shell?
[23:47] <ali1234> ah they have a livecd