/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/05/03/#ubuntu-uk.txt

popeyali1234: they have 300:08
popeywell, two I guess00:08
hamitronbrb, coffee :) feels cold tonight00:13
brobostigongood night. sleep well.00:15
ali1234hamitron: turns out you can uninstall zeitgeist without breaking unity00:28
ali1234dash no longer works though00:28
hamitronyou tried it?00:29
hamitron:D00:29
ali1234yes, i don't want a file indexing service00:29
ali1234never have, never will00:30
hamitronme neither, I have too much junk00:30
ali1234quite amusing what happens actually00:30
hamitronbut in an organised way.....00:30
ali1234the dash still appears but when you type in it it just "searches" forever00:30
hamitron:/00:30
ali1234and you can't access any of the "more applications" stuff either00:30
hamitrondoes it search network locations too?00:30
ali1234probably00:31
hamitronthat would hurt me00:31
ali1234if you can figure out how to attach to one with unity (lol)00:31
hamitronhaaha00:31
ali1234they removed "places"00:31
ali1234so there is no way to actually use a network drive now00:31
hamitronI use mount :/00:31
hamitronor cifsmount00:31
hamitronor whatever00:31
hamitronI always end up typing smbmount to get the new way00:32
hamitron:)00:32
ali1234i just tried using classic for like 10 minutes, or however long it was between logouts00:32
ali1234and now i don't like that either00:33
hamitron(12:25:58 AM) ali1234 left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).00:33
hamitron(12:27:24 AM) ali1234 [~ajb@robotfuzz.co.uk] entered the room.00:33
hamitronthat long? ;)00:33
ali1234no00:33
ali1234i logged in from classic00:33
hamitrononly ones I can live with are fluxbox (after some work) and LXDE (if I am lazy)00:34
hamitronso normally ends in LXDE00:34
hamitroneverything else just feels like it does everything but make my coffee00:35
hamitronif they made the coffee, I'd forgive them00:35
ali1234i do prefer using it without a bottom panel00:35
hamitronbut just missing something00:35
ali1234but having a dock sucks00:35
hamitronI guess that helps most on widescreen?00:36
ali1234yeah00:36
hamitronI think the side idea is sound00:36
ali1234wouldn't be a problem if it was still possible to buy a decent none widescreen monitor00:36
ali1234having it on the side is fine00:36
hamitronyeh :/00:36
ali1234except for the issue with dual monitors00:36
ali1234what i actually need is unity on primary monitor and gnome-panel on secondary00:37
hamitronI see no reason to tell the user where it should be tbh00:37
ali1234and make the workspace switcher do an instand switch00:37
hamitronis unity side only?00:37
ali1234yes00:37
hamitronoh :(00:37
hamitronso it would be even worse if you wanted to use a widescreen monitor in portrait mode00:38
ali1234yes it would be terrible00:38
ali1234hamitron: install gnome-activity-journal and be amazed at exactly what zeitgeist is tracking00:47
hamitronwb00:56
ali1234hmm that's odd, i reinstalled zeitgeist but the file search icon didn't come back00:58
ali1234that is, i reinstalled unity-places-files00:59
ali1234it came back this time01:01
ali1234odd01:01
hamitronhaha01:03
ali1234well the braindead nvidia driver strikes again01:20
ali1234it decided that my primary monitor has a refresh rate of 59.95 Hz and the secondary is 60 Hz01:20
hamitronbraindead.... or just dead? ;/01:21
ali1234guess which one it uses when you select sync to vblank01:21
hamitron2nd?01:21
ali1234right01:21
hamitronI dunno ;/01:21
hamitronI've broken the new yahoo mail01:23
hamitron:/01:23
* hamitron headbutts desk01:23
ali1234cool, i fixed it01:31
ali1234for once, there was actually an option to select the display to sync to01:31
hamitronerm01:31
hamitronnice :)01:32
ali1234now the tearing is on second monitor, i don't care about that01:32
hamitroncould it be yahoo charges for email forwarding and pop3..... but imap is free?01:33
hamitron:|01:33
hamitronali1234: having fun? ;)02:23
azelphur_hamitron, omg02:48
azelphur_4 minutes downtime for ram replacement02:48
hamitronget the ircd running then02:50
hamitron;/02:50
azelphur_I'm taking the opportunity to do some distribution upgrades.02:50
hamitron:(02:51
azelphur_hamitron, it fixed the issue though by the looks of it, the md5sums match now02:51
hamitronI have just flipped with my vps provider02:51
hamitronwicked02:51
hamitron:)02:51
hamitronI hate "features" been removed02:52
hamitron:/02:52
hamitronwanna try another distro on my vps02:53
azelphur_lol02:53
hamitronbut can't, knowing they've removed the minimal image I used02:53
hamitronalso, my account doesn't include the backup option now02:54
hamitrongotta pay for it02:54
azelphur_:(02:54
hamitronso just used tar manually02:54
hamitron;)02:54
azelphur_hamitron, time for offsite rsnapshot backups like me?02:55
azelphur_haha02:55
* hamitron downloading the image now02:55
hamitronsort of02:55
hamitronbut mine is only 96Mb02:55
hamitron;/02:55
hamitronwell, just under 9702:55
hamitron;/02:55
hamitroneven my connection can cope02:56
azelphur_haha :D02:56
hamitronso now, I'm gonna try another distro02:56
hamitronand have the image for teh old distro02:56
hamitronand sure can somehow get that back on02:56
hamitronmoving /bin and stuff02:57
hamitronif not, oh well02:57
azelphur_hmm, not getting amazing download speeds for the upgrade, only 478KB/sec from a dedi on 100mbit03:00
azelphur_what's a good mirror to hit for superfast downloads? :P03:00
hamitronfrom where? ;/03:02
hamitrondoesn't your provider have a local mirror?03:02
azelphur_hamitron, nope03:02
hamitronyou'd better hope the new kernel works03:03
hamitron;)03:03
hamitronyour host fixes your ram, then you got and break the OS \o/03:04
hamitrongo*03:04
hamitronazelphur_: I am getting 20Kb/s off the debian servers03:06
azelphur_hamitron, it should work, it's not a modified version of Ubuntu03:06
hamitronso consider yourself lucky03:06
azelphur_Ubuntu isn't an official option with my provider03:06
hamitronah03:06
azelphur_so I just gave them a link to the ISO03:06
azelphur_and they installed it03:06
hamitrongood of them03:06
hamitrontbh, dunno why they couldn't offer the option to upload an ISO03:07
hamitronthat would be cool03:07
azelphur_yea, it would :p03:08
azelphur_but yea, if it runs stock 10.0403:08
azelphur_then it should run stock 11.0403:08
azelphur_:)03:08
hamitronyeh03:11
hamitronwhy upgrade btw?03:11
azelphur_hamitron, because 10.04 old?03:12
HazRPG\o all03:12
HazRPGstill not convinced on 11.04 yet03:12
HazRPGsome of the ideas are nice... but some of them are pure pants03:12
HazRPGand the inconsistencies would make a HCI guy just go mental03:12
HazRPGazelphur_: 10.04 is an LTS dued03:13
HazRPGs/dued/dude/*03:13
azelphur_HazRPG, yea, there's also been shitloads of speed optimizations since then03:14
HazRPGazelphur_: also, 11.04 has some power management bugs03:14
azelphur_that gets a meh from me it's a server XD03:14
azelphur_plugged into a wall03:14
HazRPGmy laptop isn't though xD03:15
hamitronI'm upset my vps only provide 10.10 now03:18
hamitronhaha03:18
hamitronI want 10.0403:18
hamitron:/03:18
hamitron10.10 just means I gotta use a different version to my other systems03:19
HazRPGseriously? They don't support 10.04? that's just madness considering 10.04 server is supported for 5 years!03:19
hamitronyeh03:20
hamitronbut there are 2 bugs in it03:20
HazRPGin 10.04? Or 10.10?03:20
hamitronand they were causing a lot of users problems03:20
hamitron10.0403:20
HazRPG10.04 is now 10.04.2 though...03:20
hamitronI patched one manually03:20
hamitronwell03:20
hamitrontar is broken with the kernel they use03:20
HazRPGouch03:21
hamitronso apt-get doesn't work03:21
hamitron\o/03:21
HazRPGthen they fail, its not 10.04's fault03:21
hamitronso you are kinda screwed unless you extract it manually elsewhere, then scp it in03:21
HazRPGmy vps is 10.04 and it works swimmingly :)03:21
hamitronthey use centos kernel03:21
ali1234vps providers like to use crap old kernels03:21
ali1234like 2.6.903:21
ali1234and other dumb things03:22
hamitronbut it is annoying they removed the install option03:22
hamitronas there are ways around it03:22
ali1234my vps provider does not support anything newer than 8.0403:22
hamitronyou just need to know basic command line03:23
ali1234and if you try to upgrade you can get 8.1003:23
hamitron:/03:23
ali1234but if you go further it dies because their kernel is too old to run a modern glibc03:23
hamitronali1234: have you tried copying the root filesystem manually?03:23
hamitronah03:23
hamitronI am tempted to try build a filesystem using linuxfromscratch instructions03:24
ali1234basically nothing that they offer on the install page is still supported03:24
azelphur_http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/April%202011/2011-05-03-031958_570x498_scrot.png03:24
hamitronjust to be different03:24
azelphur_I think my dedi host has invented time travel03:24
hamitronali1234: I guess at least my host is continuely updating support03:25
hamitron:)03:25
hamitronjust annoying I have to move with it03:25
azelphur_hamitron, look at that screenshot lol, how is that even possible03:25
hamitronthey employ someone very fast03:26
hamitron;)03:26
hamitronand you can bet they aren't paid by the hour03:26
hamitron;D03:26
azelphur_haha03:26
hamitronthey'd round it up for sure03:26
hamitronto 1 hour? ;/03:26
ali1234how is it possible that you send an email and receive one in the same minute?03:26
ali1234i don't know, seem not unlikely03:26
azelphur_ali1234, no, they actually replaced the ram03:27
azelphur_in that <1 minute period03:27
HazRPGI have a feeling they just moved you xD03:27
ali1234no, they just migrated your image to another machine03:27
azelphur_and all my data? xD03:27
ali1234yes03:27
azelphur_in <1 minute03:27
ali1234sure, why not?03:28
azelphur_There's 40GB/sec ethernet now?03:28
HazRPGmv /root/server1/azelphur_ /root/server2/azelphur_03:28
ali1234um, yes?03:28
azelphur_that's new to me o.O03:28
HazRPGazelphur_: you do realise they'll probably have fibre internally right?03:29
azelphur_yea I guess03:29
azelphur_that makes sense as a possible way for how they did it xD03:29
ali1234who even knows03:29
HazRPGin fact, it would make more sense to have fibre... cos then not only can they shift things just as fast as you seen... but it means they're not going to be totally bombed down with traffic issues with 1M++ servers03:30
ali1234replacing the ram in under 4 minutes isn't exactly difficult either03:30
HazRPG(exaggerated for effect)03:30
azelphur_ali1234, it's not 4 minutes, it's less than 60 seconds03:30
azelphur_the time stamp on the emails is the same :P03:30
ali1234it's not like they have to start unscrewing a stupid PC case with all neon lights and stuff in it03:30
HazRPGreplacing ram isn't hard, and doesn't take time... but to get someone to the right server and replace in under a minute is a bit too optimistic03:31
azelphur_HazRPG, indeed03:31
hamitronArch (beta unsupported), CentOS 5.6, Debian 5 (with known problems), Debian 6, DesktopOS (CentOS based), Fedora 14, Slackware 13.1 (beta unsupported), ubuntu 9.10 (with known problems), ubuntu 10.04 LAMP (with known problems), Ubuntu 10.1003:31
ali1234yeah why would they take the server down and then wander out to where it is?03:31
hamitronso basically most aren't supported to work?03:31
ali1234all this proves is that some guy was able to replace the ram in the same time it takes you to open firefox and write an email03:32
hamitronazelphur_: guess you *did* keep that 100% uptime03:32
ali1234which isn't saying much03:32
ali1234meh03:32
* hamitron can type faster than replace ram03:33
hamitrondoes wonders for their stats I guess03:34
HazRPGreplacing ram doesn't take much time... esp in a server environment03:34
ali1234also no guarantee that the clocks are in sync03:34
HazRPG*pull out rack... pull out ram... put in new ram... power on*03:34
azelphur_hamitron, :P03:34
HazRPGthat wouldn't take more than a minute03:34
ali1234of course it wouldn't03:34
HazRPGbut to do that and write an email and to find the right server...03:34
ali1234the emails are obviously automated03:35
azelphur_Still, customer support that raises questions about being physically possible has to be amazingly awesome03:35
HazRPGazelphur_: agreed03:35
azelphur_xD03:35
HazRPGazelphur_: dude, seriously check the timestamps!03:37
HazRPGazelphur_: I wanna know how many seconds it was! :P03:37
azelphur_HazRPG, how can I check them?03:37
azelphur_it doesn't say in gmail :(03:37
HazRPGshow details :P03:37
HazRPGclick the show details bit03:37
azelphur_nope, show details doesn't show seconds either :(03:37
ali1234show original03:38
ali1234read headers03:38
HazRPGshow original ungarbled version03:38
azelphur_where's that at?03:38
HazRPGclick the arrow03:38
HazRPG(where it says reply - but click the actual arrow)03:38
azelphur_ah :)03:38
HazRPGand pick "Show original")03:38
HazRPGand it'll show you the headers in the message and its true html stuff03:38
azelphur_My email at Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 02:34:47 +010003:39
azelphur_theirs at Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 21:34:46 -040003:40
azelphur_wat...03:40
HazRPGthere's your reason dude ;)03:40
HazRPGtheir server times are different03:40
azelphur_yea03:40
azelphur_one of the relays says  Mon, 2 May 2011 18:35:32 -0700 (PDT)03:40
azelphur_so still <1 minute anyway.03:41
HazRPGthat could have been anywhere between 1-5 minutes03:41
HazRPGI knew there was a reason I always sync my times up to the same server xD03:42
azelphur_lol03:42
HazRPGwww.pool.ntp.org03:42
HazRPGftw \o/03:42
HazRPGshame not everyone uses them tho03:43
HazRPGmy mage I drew on the computer 2 years ago is now in my minecraft server \o/ http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/minecraft/2011-05-02_04.07.10.png03:45
ali1234"mages gonna mage"03:45
azelphur_HazRPG, win :D03:45
HazRPGali1234: ?03:46
ali1234http://twenty-somethingtravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/haters_gonna_hate.gif03:46
HazRPGah03:46
ali1234i dunno why it just reminded me of that03:47
HazRPGheh03:48
hamitron4am03:56
hamitronbed time o/03:56
azelphur_ali1234, hamitron mentioned that for game servers it might be more sensible to use the desktop kernel, because the server kernel is optimized for throughput rather than latency, and also I can get free ksplice. Thoughts?03:59
ali1234i dunno04:00
azelphur_very thoughtful :p04:00
MartijnVdStry & compare06:04
MartijnVdSI don't think you'll see a difference06:04
MartijnVdSalso, ksplice is SCARY06:04
livingdaylightjust (finally) installed 11.04. I'm quite liking the new mac feel to Ubuntu08:07
=== serial is now known as Guest560
kaushalHi08:14
livingdaylightis it possible to configure the side panel?08:14
livingdaylighthi kaushal08:15
kaushalI have a Thunderbird message which contains .csv file as an attachment and needs to be pushed to a web server automatically08:15
kaushalis that doable ?08:15
kaushalthis message is stored in the inbox08:16
livingdaylightkaushal, just exploring the new mac-feel /look ubunt 11.04 here. Are you using unity or have you switched back to the old gnome-style?08:16
kaushaland comes as an attachment08:16
kaushallivingdaylight: please suggest08:17
kaushallivingdaylight: I have not tried the new 11.0408:17
livingdaylightkaushal, don't know about that - sorry. Are you still on 10.10 ?08:17
kaushalyes08:18
TheOpenSourcererkaushal: You'll probably need to write a Thunderbird extension to do that. Suggest joining #thunderbird08:25
TheOpenSourcererMorning BTW08:28
AlanBellmorning all08:46
Pendulummorning08:46
MooDoohello all08:58
czajkowskiAloha09:07
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=== KrisDouglas__ is now known as KrisDouglas
MooDoomorning czajkowski *gentle poke* just until you're better :D09:08
czajkowski:)09:09
KrisDouglasGood morning09:10
dwatkinsmorning all09:27
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brobostigongood morning everyone.09:40
MooDoobrobostigon: morning09:41
brobostigonMooDoo: good morning.09:41
JamesTaitGood morning, people!09:52
MooDoomorning09:52
brobostigonmorning JamesTait09:53
popeymorning all10:02
brobostigonmorning popey10:02
MooDoomorning popey are you well?10:03
s-foxo/ MooDoo10:03
MooDoos-fox: good morning ma'am :)10:03
s-foxHow are you MooDoo ?10:04
MooDoos-fox: i'm very well thanks, what about your good self?10:04
popeytickety boo thanks MooDoo10:04
MooDoopopey: brill :D10:05
s-foxJust started work, sifting though my inbox attempting to find anything important10:06
s-foxBut I am okay thank you for asking10:06
MooDoos-fox: you're most welcome :)10:06
s-foxDid you have a good vacation MooDoo ?  The weather was very good.10:08
MooDoos-fox: i was working the weekends so i only had the bank hols of, but when i was off i did have a good time.  Did you get up to anything?10:12
oimondo SSD drives really fail that much? reading popey's tweet about SSDs10:13
BigRedSoimon: I keep hearing <1yr failure times, but I've not yet seen anyone claim to have calculated an average10:14
s-foxA few things yes. I tried to stay afk for most of it. Think I did okay.  I spent most of it at the gym, out shopping with friends and reading.  I did touch my computer yesterday to finish up the zenix artwork in time for the next release. :) MooDoo10:14
oimonBigRedS: it's a ridiculously high rate IMO10:15
MooDoos-fox: sounds pleasant :D10:15
s-foxOh and basement cat had more playtime than normal since I was in ;) MooDoo10:15
BigRedSoimon: well, it depends how well you can deal with hdd death10:15
MooDoos-fox: yay :)10:16
BigRedSI know a couple of people who reckon the performance increase is worth it for having to reimage a disk every so often10:16
oimonat that rate, even RAID 6 on a data array might not be enough10:18
oimoni feel that manufacturers get sloppy on these things, like laptop battery half-life of around 1 yr , we all seem to accept10:19
MooDoos-fox: plans for today?  chill and relax?10:19
s-foxMooDoo,  I finish work at 18:00 . When I get home I am going to be correcting a bug in the zenix installer. :)10:20
MooDoos-fox: zenix? the ubuntu remix?10:21
s-foxMooDoo,  Well it was ubuntu, then swapped to Debian Squeeze ;)10:22
MooDoos-fox:  zenix-os.net?10:23
s-foxYes,  the new site is not live yet.  It has been overhauled completely.  New site, new forum, new everything really. lmao.10:23
MooDoos-fox: ah :D10:23
s-foxI can link you to RC2 if you want to try it MooDoo10:24
s-foxMooDoo,  http://bodhizazen.net/zenix-RC2.iso10:25
MooDoos-fox: thanks, i might just do that :)10:25
s-foxIf you find any bugs, please either let me know or pop into #zenix and report them to bodhi.zazen10:26
s-foxWe found a nice one yesterday with awesome and keymapping on live cd10:26
popeys-fox: what's zenix?10:26
MooDoopopey: alternate os10:26
popeywell duh10:27
MooDooit's not the xenix unix that i was thinking about earlier ;)10:27
popeyah, it has a website10:27
popeyso it's ubuntu plus a firewall and some firefox bookmarks?10:27
s-foxpopey,  it was.10:28
s-foxWas being important ;)10:28
=== denny- is now known as denny
popeyso its debian plus a firewall and some firefox bookmarks?10:29
s-foxpopey,  well we are not running firefox but yes. It is designed to be lightweight.10:31
s-foxGive it a whirl ;)10:31
popeysorry, i was going by http://zenix-os.net/10:31
s-foxpopey,  Website seriously outdated. New pages will be up soon, as soon as we are finished with the iso's10:32
popeythanks, but no :)10:32
dutchie!ping10:32
dutchieis lubotu3` ill?10:32
popeyI quite like Ubuntu10:32
lubotu3`Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.10:32
s-foxlol10:32
dutchieah, better now10:32
dutchiehmm, this dpkg process really does not want to die10:34
* dutchie will try a reboot after lectures10:35
popeyhello envygeeks10:37
envygeeksMorning Alan.10:38
envygeeksYou know my name why not call me out :P10:38
envygeeksSo popey, you ready for a good session today?10:39
LaneyO_O10:41
popeyenvygeeks: call you out?10:42
popeyenvygeeks: it's common convention to use peoples irc nicknames on irc10:42
popeyespecially given the wonderful tab completion of irc clients10:42
envygeekspopey: ah yes, I forget you guys aren't privy to my special language yet, I meant use my name :P10:42
popeyenvygeeks: The CC meeting? it's another 9:45 hours away iirc.10:43
=== cking-afk is now known as cking
popeyer, make that 11:1510:44
popeyor something10:44
popeyTue May  3 09:44:25 UTC 201110:44
popeyoh I give up :)10:44
envygeeksI mean Open Week, I've decided to chim in this time (well this week) for the first time10:45
popeynot seen the calendar for today10:45
* popey checks10:45
popeyheh "U1 is awesome" - that'll me amusing10:46
popeyI anticipate a lot of dropbox fans will turn up and provide counter arguments to that assertion10:46
AlanBellu1 could be awesome if you forget about the file syncing thing10:46
envygeeksI'll be one of them.  I have a lot of questions about user security, one of which I asked yesterday which I didn't like the answer to10:47
popeyheh10:47
dutchiei find u1 file syncing perfectly satisfactory fwiw10:47
dutchieabout the only thing i actually do use it for10:47
popeynot sure the guy taking the session will know tbh envygeeks10:47
popeydutchie: useful if you only use ubuntu10:47
dutchiepopey: yeah10:47
dutchieneed to think about upgrading at some point10:47
dutchieanyway, lecture10:48
dutchies10:48
envygeekspopey, dutchie and AlanBell: It does have a few sync problems, mostly with heavy write syncs.  We use Dropbox here to sync an AES database with client passwords across all computers, U1 had some troubles keeping up with the writes and we got really out of sync.10:50
popeyenvygeeks: do you have some kind of app to manage your passwords or is it just a plain text file, encrypted?10:50
* popey wants a better way to store passwords10:50
envygeekspopey: we write from 1Password using 1Password anywhere (which was started on a Windows laptop I have)10:51
* popey takes a look at that10:52
envygeeksPopey: http://agilewebsolutions.com/onepassword/win * http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/1passwordanywhere.html10:52
popeyno ubuntu version I take it?10:52
envygeeksNot yet, even though they say they don't plan to support Linux, they hint at Global support around the map in their "What we need to do" speech about what they expect from their software10:53
popeycool10:53
envygeeksThey kept denying the Windows version till the day they sprung it on the world10:53
popeyhaha10:53
envygeekspopey: http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/645-1password-for-linux-dont-hurt-me-lol/ << this thread says you can run Windows version in Wine too10:55
gordmorning all10:58
envygeeksmorning10:58
brobostigonmorning gord10:59
oimonbug 74349410:59
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 743494 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu Natty) "Did not store passwords" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74349410:59
oimonhmm changelog in lucid still says otherwise11:01
livingdaylightdropbox icon doesn't paint properly on panel since insall of 11.0411:02
envygeeksoimon: Natty came after Lucid so you'll need to backport the fix into Lucid.11:02
=== dgjones is now known as DJones
oimonback to firefox then11:04
DJonesoimon: I've not had any problems with passwords not being stored using chromium-browser in either maverick or natty11:07
envygeeks@oimon it was fixed in Natty so of course you won't have problems :P his problem is with Lucid though (I assume based on his comment)11:08
davmor2Morning all nice weekend foreveryone?11:08
seekerStill the weekend for me \o/11:08
oimonDJones: which version u have?11:08
DJonesoimon: I'm not on the machine to check, but should be the default version from the repo11:10
oimonDJones: envygeeks, actually the changelog didn't show the latest iteration at the top: update manager just gave me v 11.0.696.57, which should fix the problem11:10
oimonpanic over :D although i think chromium uses more mem than firefox4 even :(11:12
envygeeks@oimon there is a Javascript memory leak lots of users are reporting with web 2.0 sites in ff4 though it's unconfirmed as far as I know the exact cause I do know there is a mem leak. users of all operating systems are reporting almost 2GB+ for ff11:13
dogmatic69o/11:13
davmor2MooDoo: me owld mukka11:14
DJonesoimon: I've not tried ff4 on ubuntu yet, I like chromium/chrome, haven't noticed any memory problems (although having just upgraded to 4gb hopefully I won't)11:14
MooDoodavmor2: alreet geeza!11:15
=== ChrisB_ is now known as Guest50373
Chris_LondonAfternoon all.  Could someone please point me in the right direction for a 'moving engine' screensaver that was in Jaunty?11:20
davmor2MooDoo: good weekend?11:21
MooDoodavmor2: i was working sat and sun, but monday was ok, trying to persuade my mates that unity is good, it's just different11:22
davmor2MooDoo: tape them to a chair, super glue their eyes open and play youtube videos of it being used to them contently for 48 hours if that fails you could always try electrocution #Hardcore_Ubuntu_Advocacy for more ideas ;)11:25
BigRedSChris_London: that the one showing various cylinder layouts?11:25
MooDoodavmor2: rock on...love it11:25
envygeeksNever gonna give you up11:25
envygeeksNever gonna let you down11:26
Chris_Londonyes BigRed, that's the one.11:26
davmor2envygeeks: you muppet stop trying to rickroll people via irc11:26
DJonesHeh Silly email "My Norton Antivirus free version is about to expire, click >here< to renew" Ermmmmm I think not11:31
envygeeksdavmor2: I can't help it, I get bored :(11:34
dogmatic69DJones: seems legit11:34
DJonesdogmatic69: It is legit, but why would I pay to use Norton when there are free antivirus software available that doesn't slow things down to a crawl anyway (for the maybe once a month I log into win 7 anyway)11:35
envygeeksDJones: My computer is too fast, sometimes I prefer it to slow down, perhaps that's what they want you to do? Did they figure out that you might have an i7?11:36
DJonesenvygeeks: Well its got an i3, but even so, default installation junk, I've only left on because I've not been bothered removing it yet, probably stick AVG or Security Essentials on when I get round to clearing the windows side11:38
davmor2envygeeks: Use windows for 24 hours that should give you enough slow down :)11:38
envygeeksDJones: I'm not big Microsoft fan myself, I am die hard Linux but on my one Windows machine I will say, Microsoft security essentials is legit.  It's even VB100.  Microsoft put a lot of work into making sure it would be good.  I give them props on Security Essentials.11:40
MartijnVdSRun one of those "CPU burning" tools, setiathome, distributed.net11:40
DJonesenvygeeks: Agreed, on the other machines in the house with Windows, I've put security essentials on them, certainly had any reason to complain about them.  Even my wifes heavy facebook "click this random link" problems haven't gone wrong11:42
DJonesAlanBell: A week or so back we were talking about the different Alt+tab, super key options etc for Unity, was there one for enabling super & tab to give a app switcher that moved things across the screen11:47
AlanBellshift switcher11:49
DJonesThanks, couldn't remember which one it was, need to enable it on my wifes laptop11:49
oimonDJones: solaris used to have an application called xworms which was as efficient as norton anti virus - do you know it?11:55
DJonesoimon: No, can't say I've heard of it11:56
oimonDJones: it was an X app to slow down your CPU. caught as many viruses as NAV too11:57
DJonesheh11:57
livingdaylighthi12:12
livingdaylightnot exactly ubuntu related, but would anyone know whether I can replace my virgin media coaxial adaptor with a 2-way coaxial splitter?12:13
livingdaylightwondering whether these things are standard or whether VM has specific ones for internet and tv / phone12:14
popeylivingdaylight: you can get generic splitters from places like maplin13:02
BigRedSmy word Thunderbird 3's search thingy is useless13:17
livingdaylightpopey, yes, I noticed, on ebay too... I just wondered whether they would do the job? whether they were compatible and didn't diminish broadband quality/signal at all or whether VM used other than generic splitters - thanks13:17
popeyyes, i use one13:17
BigRedSor just utterly incompatible with how I search for things13:17
livingdaylightpopey, you do? kewl... after we upgraded our broadband to 30mb we had issues and while i was out and partner was in, they came and ripped one of the boxes out. Currently we have one coaxial adaptor/box and two cables and have to switch 'em round depending on whether we want tv or broadband13:21
popeyinteresting, I'm going to 30Mb this week13:21
livingdaylightthey figured the extra box created a surcharge which was diminishing and compromising optimal 30mb performance13:21
livingdaylightits only been hassle so far, but hopefully it will be worth it in the end; as yet not noticed any benefit from our previous 10mb speeds13:22
popeythat doesnt sound good13:24
livingdaylightpopey, like that? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=15036754275613:24
popeyyes, exactly like that13:24
livingdaylightthank you!13:25
popeynp13:25
livingdaylightpopey, paying £23.50 for 6 months before moving to the full whack of £28.00 pcm (or 28.50??)13:26
livingdaylight£23.50 pcm for 6 months I should precise...13:26
* gord calls popey a show off, 30mb indeed13:27
livingdaylightwe were paying £21.00 or so for 10mb so for a couple pounds more 30mb seemed worth it, as we do use it a lot13:28
livingdaylightgord, you still on the 56k dialup? ;)13:29
livingdaylightI remember having a 14.4 dialup and wondering when and how I was going to get my hands on a cutting-edge 56k dialup13:29
oimonwho's ever heard of the other 9 most wanted? http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten14:16
DJonesoimon: I haven't, but I wonder who's claiming the $25M reward for the apprehension of Bin laden14:17
oimonobama :D14:18
wintellectDJones: perhaps they'll check the killing bullet and give it to the shooter14:18
oimonthe helicopter they trashed must have cost a few quid14:18
livingdaylightas far as I know osama ( started writing obama, lol)  never even admitted responsibility for any part of 9/11.14:21
oimonhere we go...14:22
oimonalready heard teenagers on the train saying "i don't believe he's dead, cos i never saw photos, so i deffo aint going to no olympics this year"14:23
bigcalmpopey: ping14:43
MartijnVdSoimon: Good. Fewer people at oversponsored mass-marketing event.14:43
oimoni work about 1mile from the olmypics but won't be going due to prices and lack of choice14:44
oimonand the fact that a lot of events are in fact very boring14:44
MartijnVdSoimon: Olympics = marketing for sponsors, not much else14:44
BigRedSI intended to rent out my room for the Olympics and go somewhere nice and quiet14:45
BigRedSbut then I moved out of London, so it seems less worthwhile now14:45
oimonhope you're not in weymouth :P the sailing events will be there :)14:50
BigRedShaha, no, cambridgeshire :)14:51
BigRedSbut Dorset was briefly somewhere to be other than London14:51
oimonanyone try google voice search on their phones? it is terrible in my experience14:56
oimoni try an american accent and it works better, but trying an american accident when spelling out a postcode usually makes me sound australian and doesn't work :(14:56
gordworks fine for me14:57
bigcalmIt's useful for light entertainment14:58
kazadePC Pro post on Unity: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/05/03/ubuntu-unity-the-great-divider/14:58
bigcalmAnd accurate the rest of the time14:58
oimonkazade: i don't see how natty should get a high review based on *potential* , it should be based on what is delivered here & now15:07
Psychobudgieit does seem to split opinion, I'll give unity that15:08
X3Noimon: I've found that if you set the langauge to US english it seems to work much better, especially for commands and such15:08
livingdaylightMartijnVdS, yup, we live in a corporate world and its all about da money - profit at all cost.15:08
oimonx3n instead of UK english? i don't recall seeing that option15:09
kazadeoimon, agreed15:09
livingdaylightjust installed 11.04 and enjoying unity on the whole... very mac-ish with the panel at the top connected to what app happens to be open...15:10
kazadeI wouldn't give 11.04 a high review15:10
kazadeprobs 7-815:10
oimoni'd give it whatever vista got :D15:10
MartijnVdSA 5 for me. Unity doesn't work properly (or maybe it does, but I don't think it does)15:10
Psychobudgieheh15:11
kazadeif I could disable merging controls/title/menu into the panel for all but the top maximized window, I'd be happy15:11
oimonespecially as  the reviews are already saying that ocelot will hopefully fix issues in natty15:11
livingdaylightIt's all about choice. I don't mind unity as long as the alternatives continue to exist; then I don't see what the complaining is about? Window Managers are just a means to getting to the apps. I'd like to see less focus on window managers in the linux world and more focus on new killer apps15:12
PsychobudgieI'll stick to gnome-desktop15:12
kazadeWhen I find time I'm gonna patch Unity to work the way I expect it to work, then I'll be happy :)15:12
MartijnVdSkazade: I've given up an installed Xubuntu instead15:12
popeybigcalm: pong15:13
oimonlivingdaylight: it's unclear how much alternative will be officially supported in OO 11.1015:13
MartijnVdSoimon: Xubuntu, Lubuntu :)15:13
AzelphurUpgraded my server to 11.04 last night :)15:13
oimonMartijnVdS: i'm not against the idea of unity (since i use docky right now) but it's the design choice and ability to tweak that that is the problem for me.15:14
oimonbug 74023215:14
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 740232 in unity "Window control buttons in the panel don't respect metacity theme" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74023215:14
MartijnVdSoimon: But you shouldn't want to tweak! It's PERFECT!15:14
livingdaylightoimon, that would be a valid reason for outcry; but i'm sure there will always be plenty of alternatives. As I said, my main concern is the lack of innovation in the area of applications. People will switch to Linux because of its applications not because of a spinning cube or whatever craze of the day is.15:15
oimonalthough to some people, applications are diminishing since the web is everything to them15:16
livingdaylightbtw, is there a way to manage the workspaces, i.e. add more ? that used to be a right-click and preferences away in gnome desktop before15:16
livingdaylightoimon, professionals in the field of science and graphic design and audio video media still look for great apps. Its not just about surfing the web and the social media such as bookface15:18
bigcalmpopey: lan over power. My dad has been using it just fine for a long time now with just 2 units. He's now bought another 2 units but is having trouble with them all talking. How many units do you have and is there a trick to get them all talking nicely?15:20
popeybigcalm: 415:23
popeythey all talk to eachother15:23
popeyhas he enabled encryption on them? if so the new ones will need the same key15:24
bigcalmpopey: ok, good. I was wondering if they only worked in pairs. Sounds like one of his 4 might be faulty15:24
bigcalmThey each have a button to press to link them together15:24
popeywhats the command on redhat to tell it to go and update the list of kernel modules if you add one?15:28
oimonmodprobe -a ? depmod?15:28
popeyyes!15:29
popeyta15:29
oimonwhich one was it?15:29
bigcalmdepmod iirc15:29
popeydepmod -a15:30
popeyit vanished from my head for some reason15:30
popeythanks :)15:30
popeybigcalm: are the exact same mfr?15:30
bigcalmpopey: He hasn't said otherwise, but I think he's sensible enough to have bought the same ones. From PC HEll15:31
shadowlemonHi; I've put a static ip on a server in /etc/network/interfaces; on /etc/init.d/networking restart it gets the right ip, but after x amount of time it's ip changes. The pc is not being turned off,  and the ip is random, am i missing something?15:37
oimonshadowlemon: can you provide example IP's of what it chagnes to?15:37
shadowlemonoimon if you give me 2 minutes I can go to the server to check.. but as far as i know the ip should be 192.84.178.23015:38
shadowlemonand only the last segment changes15:38
X3Nmaybe dhclient is asking for a new ip address after a leasetime expires15:39
oimonmaybe also provide a pastebin of /etc/network/interfaces15:39
shadowlemoni'll go there now..15:40
shadowlemonip changed from 178.84.178.230 to 178.84.178.23615:51
shadowlemoni did a networking restart and i can connect again15:52
jonsainthi all. does anyone have the problem of the screensaver freezing after about 5 mins? i an get back to the homescreen but it takes ages and it seems slower with this current release AND i have to enter my keyring twice each time i log in....help!!16:01
gordhotel wifi now 20 KB/sec :(17:23
awilkinsIs there something that I can use to just log (e.g) the title of each window I focus on to a file with a timestamp17:44
awilkinsWhat I'm basically after is something I can exploit to write timesheets for me by virtue of scraping a log for window titles / path / etc17:45
Azelphurhmm, im running rsnapshot in gnome terminal and x has frozen17:48
Azelphurany way to not kill that process?17:48
Azelphuror if i kill it will it resume?17:49
* Azelphur prods popey :p17:49
bigcalmThis is so very much the wrong channel to post this in, but you never know who is lurking: a job if anybody is interested http://www.jobserve.com/IT-Engineer-and-DBA-London-Bridge-Permanent-WD5F452CCE3A1434E.jsjob?&r=571F6BE7261E915717:51
awilkinsEssential : MCSE17:55
* awilkins giggles17:55
Azelphuranyone care to unstuck me? :p17:56
awilkinsMS certifications in my experience test your ability to do things the One Microsoft Way and little else. (have studied for them but left the job that wanted them)17:57
* davmor2 throws some stick stuff remove in Azelphur direction17:57
Azelphurlol17:58
Azelphurguess I'll have to loose my rsnapshot process17:58
Azelphur:/17:58
Azelphurstupid X freezes.17:58
awilkinsThat'll teach you to use screen | at job | a paperclip17:59
Azelphurtyping screen every time i open a term would be madness :p18:00
gordset your terminal to auto rejoin/open a screen session?18:00
awilkinsSet your terminal profile to run byobu instead of shell or something18:01
gordecho... echo.... echo....18:01
Azelphurhow do i do that? :p18:01
awilkinsTerminal Menu <Edit> .. <Preferences> tab "Title and Command"   check "Run a custom command instead of my shell"18:02
Azelphurwhat should I use, screen? :P18:03
* awilkins quite likes the byobu wrapper for screen18:04
dutchiestupid bastardised dellbuntu images18:15
czajkowskidutchie: oi language!18:16
dutchie:(18:16
jpdsczajkowski: Dutch, yes.18:17
TheOpenSourcererczajkowski: Thanks for the picture for some Wasabi. But why?18:24
TheOpenSourcerers\for\of18:24
czajkowskiwaterloo last week18:24
czajkowskijust reminded me of you18:24
czajkowskiand the lack of18:24
brobostigonis anyone else getting weird facebook chat spam?18:24
TheOpenSourcererlol18:24
czajkowskimakes perfect sense really18:25
dutchiebrobostigon: fb chat spam usually means that the person responsible has had their account compromised18:27
HazRPGThought it was about time I did a blog post lol18:27
brobostigondutchie: i have had it , the samemessage from twodifferent peoples accounts now18:27
dutchiebrobostigon: maybe they both got hacked then, not sure otherwise18:29
HazRPGbrobostigon: \o :)18:29
HazRPGalso, \o all18:29
brobostigonHazRPG: good evening, :)18:29
brobostigondutchie: yes, sounds likely.18:29
HazRPGbrobostigon: the fb chat spam is usually for a bad application more than an actual compromised account however18:30
HazRPGfrom*18:30
HazRPGhowever, that bad application could be doing other things too... and so you should really warn those users.18:30
brobostigonHazRPG: so the two people i have got spam from, have subscribed to the same bad fb app?18:31
brobostigonHazRPG: i have done. yes.18:31
HazRPGbrobostigon: there are hundreds of bad apps out there on facebook, so they could have just installed different ones.18:31
HazRPGmost likely, both apps (assuming not the same one) are using the same vulnerability18:32
brobostigonHazRPG: ah, i see, i will advise them both, to check their apps.18:32
HazRPGindeed18:32
HazRPGif they remove the last few they added, they should be fine... however they should also scan their PC's of viruses and malware (assuming win boxes), and then change their passwords too18:33
HazRPGalso, tell them to contact facebook about it to, just to be on that safe side :)18:33
brobostigonHazRPG: ok, i will do, thank you for your advice.18:34
HazRPGbrobostigon: no problem dude :)18:35
HazRPGbrobostigon: also, new blog post! Woo \o/18:36
brobostigonHazRPG: let me check google reader, :)18:36
HazRPGbrobostigon: \o/18:39
KrimZonif i'm in a screen session and i ssh into a remote machine and connect to a screen session there, how do I detach from the screen session on the remote machine?18:39
HazRPGah crud, just realised I missed the bit about frame rates option when writing this18:39
MartijnVdSKrimZon: screen -rD18:39
MartijnVdSKrimZon: check the manual ("remote detach")18:39
brobostigonHazRPG: i have starred it, and shared it too all my friends on google reader, :)18:39
HazRPGbrobostigon: awesome :), you should check the video at the end, its pretty cool :)18:40
brobostigonHazRPG: i will :)18:40
HazRPGonly a minute long, but it works :318:41
brobostigon:)18:41
KrimZonyay18:41
KrimZonctrl-a, a, ctrl-d18:41
HazRPGbrobostigon: edited out the mistakes :318:46
brobostigonHazRPG: ah, :)18:46
HazRPGMight just clean up a few of the other posts out, think I've pretty much worked out the best format/layout for my tutorial stuff I think.18:48
popey18:15:26 < dutchie> stupid bastardised dellbuntu images19:01
popey^^^^ completely fair comment IMHO19:01
MartijnVdSKrimZon: ah, you meant a screen inside a screen :) I misunderstood that :)19:02
ubuntuuk-planet[Hassan Williamson] Tutorial: Stop-Motion in Linux - http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/05/03/stop-motion-in-linux/19:19
HazRPGha, woot, didn't expect my post to randomly show up like that on here xD19:21
MartijnVdSWith your real name and all19:25
hamitronevening19:25
hamitron:)19:25
hamitronI just read "Shuttleworth on Ubuntu 11.04 Linux & Unity" article by S J Vaughan-Nichols on ZDnet, and I now feel a lot better about unity19:32
envygeeksLink?19:32
hamitronhttp://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/shuttleworth-on-ubuntu-1104-linux-unity/8780?tag=nl.e53919:32
envygeeksTYVM19:33
hamitronI just feel it is a nice ballance article19:34
MartijnVdSyes. It means I'll be staying with Xubuntu19:34
hamitronlove or hate it, life doesn't have to end19:34
Azelphurhamitron: all my stuff is back online now :P19:34
hamitronnice Azelphur19:34
MartijnVdShamitron: I still won't recommend Unity to anyone.19:34
hamitronproblems all gone for sure?19:34
Azelphurhamitron: yep.19:35
hamitroncool19:35
hamitronMartijnVdS: maybe not, but as stated, more to ubuntu than unity19:35
envygeeksI don't like where he pretty much implies that if we are a Linux power user than we should take out from Ubuntu and find another Distro though :(19:36
hamitronthat was a little harsh19:36
hamitronbut reading on there are positives for those that want different19:36
Laneythat's an embellishment the reporter made19:38
jibadeehajust tried Faenza icon set - really think Ubuntu should adopt this in the next release19:39
Laneyand it contradicts the last paragraph19:39
Laneystrange article19:39
hamitronLaney: it is taking multiple angles19:40
hamitronit is very much how I personally think about things19:40
Laneythat's one way of putting it19:40
hamitronargue against everything, and see which wins in my head :)19:40
Laneythere's no room for you, but oh wait yes there is19:40
* Laney gets confused19:40
hamitronfrom what shuttleworth says, I won't be using a vanilla ubuntu desktop personally19:41
hamitronbut still no reason to give up and go off in a huff19:41
hamitron:)19:41
mgdmthis is probably an FAQ, but can you turn Unity off? :)19:44
mgdmI've not upgraded19:44
Laneyyou can pick the classic session19:44
hamitronyou can for now19:44
Laneydon't FUD19:44
Laneynobody will be forced to use it ever19:44
mgdmthat's OK then19:44
mgdmi'll upgrade and give it a shot, just wanted to know I had a fallback19:45
hamitronsomeone said Shuttleworth said it was....19:45
hamitron;/19:45
Laneyshow me19:45
hamitronI didn't read it myself19:45
mgdm[citation needed]19:45
Laneyclassic might not be on the cd for 11.10, but you'll still be able to install it19:45
hamitrontbh, that is why I don't worry19:46
hamitronlots of things we all like are not on the cd19:46
hamitronyou just install them after19:46
mgdmIf I have the classic session, I can still do the stuff like turn off compiz, right?19:46
mgdmcompiz ruins multiple monitor support for me19:47
Laneydon't see why not19:47
Laneymetacity is still there19:47
mgdmcool19:47
hamitronjust follow the same safety precautions as with any upgrade :)19:47
Laneyi hope the haters come together and make gubuntu19:47
hamitronLaney: that would be nice and productive19:48
Laneymaybe i'll join in19:48
hamitronI guess there will be g2 and g3?19:48
hamitronor could be19:48
Laneygnome 3 has a fallback mode19:48
hamitronI've been wondering if it would be cool to have no desktop as such19:50
hamitronjust have seamonkey loading or something19:50
brobostigonhamitron: gnome-shell doesnt have any true desktop, as we had it.19:51
hamitronthe gnome is fat ;/19:51
Laneyrun x without a window manager then19:51
hamitronLaney: yeh, just wondering how i could live with it19:52
Laneyi'm guessing not :-)19:52
hamitronhehe19:52
hamitronI have my doubts, I must say19:52
Laneythere are minimalist window mangers19:54
Laneypersonally i prefer a tiling one (xmonad for me)19:54
hamitroni kinda like LXDE19:56
hamitronnot tried lubuntu yet19:56
ali1234the unity rant story is up on slashdot :)19:56
envygeeksWhich unity rant story? The #ubuntu mailing list is pretty much a live rant story right now :P20:01
hamitronbrb, testing new IRC client20:07
ali1234envygeeks: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/03/1516235/Ubuntu-Unity-The-Great-Divider20:11
hamitronmy messing is over \o/20:25
awilkins /o\ what will you do now?20:25
hamitronhmmm20:26
hamitrondunno :/20:26
exobuzzmore bad press for ubuntu/unity on slashdot (or is any press good?)20:26
awilkinsI have mixed feelings about it20:26
envygeeksexobuzz: I have a feeling Ubuntu is going to be taking the heat until GNOME 3 comes out and people see how bad the UI is in Unity, then they'll be like "Oh, now I see why they made Unity, GNOME 3 is just bad, bad GNOME 3, BAD"20:27
awilkinsUpside ; like dbus-menu, like the self-hiding scrollbars20:27
envygeeksI mean how bad the UI is in GNOME 3 not Unity*20:27
envygeeksAnd by GNOME 3 comes out I mean makes it mainstream too, it's already out just not mainstream yet20:28
exobuzzenvygeeks, i just hope some of the issues with unity will be looked into and classic gnome will still be offered in the next release (they said they wouldnt)20:28
awilkinsDownside ; do not like the way all app windows are represented in launcher bar, even when not on current desktop. Do not like apparent inability to start an additional window for an app just by clicking it's launcher icon.20:28
awilkinsI could stomach the "no new window" thing if it took a modifier key (like shift, or ctrl)20:29
envygeeksexobuzz: even though Mark said there were some things that were a no go for changes I too hope that he will fall to the demand and put in some of the most wanted things.20:29
exobuzzenvygeeks, issues like no alternatives to many often used applets.. and click top left. get  8 big icons on the display. on 1920x1080p they are too big and look silly (lots of mouse movement to get to them). on 800x480 they are still too big and dont fit on the screen20:30
awilkinsA good UI is about what feels intuitive - it felt intuitive to me when a straight click failed to spawn a new window, to try using shift or ctrl20:30
exobuzzi still prefer the linuxmint style desktop with a "smart menu" like on some other os too20:31
ali1234envygeeks: but gnome 3 is already out20:31
envygeeksali1234: read my second comment elaborating already out please...20:31
ali1234so iow when f15 comes out?20:31
envygeeks"(8:28:15 PM) envygeeks: And by GNOME 3 comes out I mean makes it mainstream too, it's already out just not mainstream yet"20:31
ali1234gnome 3 will just make it worse20:32
exobuzzwhy is everyone trying to re-invent the gui anyway.20:32
ali1234because then people will realise that there isn't even an alternative20:32
ali1234exobuzz: what do you mean "everyone"20:32
hamitronnew ideas are often tried, some stick, some go20:32
ali1234gnome and canonical are the only ones trying to do it20:33
envygeeksKDE 4 did it too ali123420:33
ali1234lol no20:33
ali1234KDE4 is just a new theme on the same old KDE20:33
envygeeksI'm pretty sure they had some major UI changes that people didn't like and especially backend changes20:33
exobuzzali1234, i mean, lots of desktop environments/os' jolios, ubuntu, kde (although kde aint too different), gnome 3, chromeos20:33
ali1234yeah they changed all the backend20:33
ali1234this has nothing to do with the UI20:33
ali1234the UI itself is still exactly the same20:34
ali1234they added on a windows 7 copy start menu but you can turn it off easily20:34
mgdmI just did "vim http://pastebin.com/something" by mistake, and it worked!20:34
ali1234other than that everything else is identical20:34
mgdmVim is magic20:34
ali1234same old panel20:34
exobuzzvim was made on the Amiga ;-)20:34
brobostigonmgdm: :)20:34
ali1234as for chromeos........ it's just google chrome running in fullscreen mode20:34
ali1234that's only innovative in that nobody was dumb enough to try it before20:35
exobuzzyeh. but really my things are with gnome3/ubuntu20:35
envygeeksI've never used KDE but http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=55464&start=15 ... just sayin' :P20:35
ali1234envygeeks: i don't understand what is your point20:36
ali1234one guy liked it, so it must be completely different?20:36
envygeeksMy point is, that you are saying they didn't make changes to the UI when they did20:36
ali1234no, they didn't20:36
envygeeksright.20:36
ali1234there is still a start menu, a task bar, and a tray with a clock, exactly like there has always been20:36
ali1234the difference is that now they are generated using plasmoids, which means you can't theme them20:37
envygeeksand by that theory because Ubuntu still has one in Unity it's not changed it's UI either20:37
ali1234kind of like how you can't change the unity theme actually20:37
ali1234but ubuntu no longer has a start menu or a tray20:37
ali1234this is why people do not like it20:37
ali1234it also doesn't have a task bar20:37
ali1234so in other words, by this metric, unity is radically different, while KDE is exactly the same as old versions20:38
hamitronlubuntu has all those20:38
exobuzzand no support for the old applets20:38
ali1234KDE still has all the same old panel applets it always had20:38
ali1234unity has virtually none20:38
hamitronlxde?20:38
ali1234lxde and xfce are both not trying to reinvent the desktop too20:39
exobuzzunity doesnt work on my small screen or my big screen. surely that's a failure. it was trying to target both ?20:39
ali1234it's really just gnome 3 and unity20:39
envygeeksJust go back to slackware and call it a day20:39
hamitronali1234: so if you want new, can use gnome3 or unity, if you want old, can use something else20:39
ali1234the problem with lxde and xfce both is that they lack features20:40
ali1234it's like using gnome from 10 years ago20:40
ali1234and KDE is just nasty20:40
hamitronsuppose can use gnome2 then20:40
exobuzzi havent tried kde for a while. might have to have a drive again20:40
exobuzzused to use kde320:40
ali1234exobuzz: you still have to spend a few days setting it up to make it usable20:41
ali1234in that respect nothing has changed20:41
exobuzzi doubt it will take me a few days but i take your point20:41
ali1234the defaults are as bad as they've always been, and the options are the same as always, so in the end you'll just end up configuring it exactly like you had KDE320:42
exobuzzim going to do a screenshot to show off "unity 2d" on the o2 joggler..20:42
hamitronwhy not have a meta-package like gnome-desktop or classic-desktop?20:42
ali1234the other problem with KDE is the developers don't seem to test with custom settings at all20:42
exobuzzi think ubuntu should keep "gnome classic". after all. its just choice, and choice is good20:42
envygeekshamiltron: yesterday they implied that GNOME 2 UI is dead because it's no longer maintained and I don't think Ubuntu wants to take it up (just yet)20:43
ali1234it's not hard to find graphical bugs in KDE as as soon as you modify one part, it tends to shift everything else out of the correct position20:43
envygeeks"unfortunately the GNOME 2 interface is unmaintained, she did serve us well for 7 years though" -- JCastro20:43
ali1234it's particularly bad with fonts, and has been since 320:43
hamitronso ubuntu moving to unity could be good for Gnome 2 interface20:44
hamitron;)20:44
hamitronit could well draw attention to it20:44
hamitronget it some love20:44
ali1234gnome 2 isn't exactly great either tbh20:44
ali1234the one thing it has going for it is it's reliable20:45
hamitronbut do you prefer it to unity?20:45
ali1234yes20:45
hamitronso there will be others too20:45
hamitronsome may even join in to maintain it20:46
hamitronif they feel there is nowhere else to go20:46
exobuzzunity on 800x480 - it could at least look at the screen res to work out the best size for the icons! http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity2.png20:49
exobuzz(unity 2d to be precise)20:49
ali1234fail20:49
exobuzzand on full hd http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity.png20:50
ali1234why are those icons so damn big in the first place?20:50
exobuzz(still too big)20:50
ali1234the dash is complete fail20:50
KartiHi all20:50
hamitronhi Karti20:50
Kartihamitron, Hi20:51
ali1234hi20:51
KartiAny great opinions about virus protection within linux?20:52
mgdmYou don't need it20:53
mgdm(yet)20:53
DJonesKarti: To be honest, I wouldn't bother with virus protection20:53
DJones!virus20:53
lubotu3`Antivirus is something you don't need on !Linux. except where files are then passed to windows computers (perhaps using samba), See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus20:53
exobuzzi use clamav20:53
ali1234what mgdm means is you don't need it unless you run a server with php20:53
exobuzz(mostly with my mail server)20:53
* mgdm looks at ali1234 20:53
hamitronit is polite and maybe a good idea to run clamav to protect users who are unlucky enough to be on windows20:54
KartiOn my previous (and wifes) build used clamav with a pipe set up for Evolution, but I'm just wondering if I should bother with 11.0420:54
KartiI like hamitron's polite bit20:54
KartiSo mine is really personal mail only rather than servers20:55
hamitronwell, your friends would consider it rude if you sent them viruses :)20:55
livingdaylight i miss the weather aspect to the time/date on panel20:55
ali1234it's also handy for working out who you know who is an idiot20:56
livingdaylightcan still add world clocks, but not the weather20:56
Kartihamitron, they would be shocked to get an email!!20:59
hamitronas would mine :)20:59
hamitronbbl, gotta tidy up some tools I was using earlier21:00
awilkinslivingdaylight, I think the weather applet is not installed by default now21:00
exobuzzali1234, I better have a forum whinge too ;-) http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=111&p=970#p97021:00
DJoneslivingdaylight: Have you checked in software centre for weather applet?21:01
ali1234a lot of the problems with unity are things that used to be a problem with gnome (and often still are a problem with KDE, XFCE etc)21:01
ali1234for example, handling of fullscreen applications21:01
ali1234it took gnome years to get that right21:01
ali1234now unity comes along and it's back to square one21:01
exobuzz1 is generous.21:02
KartiDJones, nice virus link before. Interesting read thanks21:02
DJonesKarti: Your welcome21:03
ali1234this is why all the people saying "just switch" are so annoying21:03
ali1234i could switch to KDE and start complaining about how that doesn't work right either21:04
ali1234but then all the KDE people would say "well, why did you switch?"21:04
livingdaylightDJones, no, haven't. awilkins I always thought it was part and parcel of the clock not a separate install/uninstallable app. Will look for it21:05
KartiCan I assume that the discussion is on teh latest Natty desktop?21:05
ali1234of course?21:06
awilkinsWhat else?21:06
DJoneslivingdaylight: Seems to be something called indicator-weather in synaptic21:06
Kartifor my five pennies I like it  - looks good (though  30 years ago I DID wear tanktops!!)21:07
awilkinsI do like the slim scrollbars. I wish they worked consistently on everything.21:08
awilkinse.g. - xchat-gnome, still standard scrollbar. Eclipse - slim scrollbar, but no popup scroll tool21:08
DJonesawilkins: When you think you've worked the scroll bars out, then you have to think about the same scroll bar in windowed and full screen apps being different21:10
KartiI'm just pleased I was able to keep wobbly windows. I really don't know how I would have coped otherwise :)21:11
awilkinsWhat's with the little blue corner on the top left? Notifier tag?21:11
awilkins(someone reply to me so I can test that theory)21:12
DJonesawilkins: What little blue corner?21:12
awilkinsThe one that appears top left when an app has an alert flag raised :-)21:12
awilkinsLike the one that just happened21:12
DJonesI don't get that21:12
awilkinsFocus on another app21:12
awilkinsDJones, like that21:13
DJonesBut maybe its because I'm using irssi via ssh21:13
awilkinsAh21:13
awilkinsProbably other apps trigger it also21:13
awilkinsAnything that makes their launcher icon jiggle21:13
awilkinsMmmn, redraw glitches21:13
awilkinsI'm actually looking forward to Wayland21:14
brobostigonsame issue in gwibber, left panel, new scroll bar.right side, old scroll bar.21:14
awilkinsIf nothing else, Wayland will update the rendering, hopefully to the point where the window-texture-tearing is fixed21:14
DJonesLets try with xchat21:15
DJonesPing DGJOnes21:15
DJonesI see the little blue corner now21:15
livingdaylightDJones, thanks... does it need a restart to put in place. I don't see it as yet, unless it now configures in a different manner21:17
DJoneslivingdaylight: I don't know, I've not tried it, just saw it was available21:18
livingdaylightk, thx21:18
KartiNight all, thanks for teh AV stuff :)21:24
jibadeeha wonder when Ubuntu will use Wayland .. guessing some way off21:26
=== pankaj is now known as pankaj_sharma
popeyjibadeeha: yeah, probably not until at least 12.1022:04
popeydoubt they'd put it in before 12.04 LTS22:05
jibadeehapopey, do you think it will get rid of all that switching to and from the console, you know like when you shut down22:05
popeythe flicker?22:05
popeywould be nice wouldn't it22:05
jibadeehayeah really looks unprofessional22:05
jibadeehai know it can't be high priority but it would be nice yes22:06
hamitronwhat flickering?22:12
mgdmHmmm22:38
mgdmsince my Natty upgrade, I have no sound22:38
mgdmRight, so unmuting it in alsamixer worked22:41
* mgdm has ringing ears now needs new underwear22:41
exobuzz... booted into system rescue cd waiting for partition to resize...23:06
exobuzzis it normal for resize2fs to sit at 100cpu for ages?23:07
exobuzz(using gparted so i cant see whats going on really)23:07
gordresizing file systems can always take forever23:09
exobuzzaah now its actually doing something23:11
exobuzzprobably there was a lot to @think@ about23:12
exobuzz(i have a lot of small files)23:12
exobuzzreboot23:13
exobuzzi was just looking at converting my partion table from mbr to gpt. you would think parted can do it but it seems i need gpt fdisk23:29
exobuzzor i could note down the "offset" values and do it manually i guess.23:30
ali1234why you want to do that?23:30
ali1234mbr isn't really that important?23:30
exobuzzto install windows 723:30
exobuzz*cough*23:31
ali1234windows 7 requires it?23:31
exobuzzon efi puters it seems so23:31
ali1234oh23:31
ali1234weird stuff23:31
dutchiewell it appears that dell's modifications to ubuntu 8.04 have made it completely useless and destroyed ubuntu's image in the eyes of one facebook friend and probably a good chunk of her friends23:40
hamitrondutchie: why?23:42
dutchie"ughh is fed up with technology..ubuntu 8.04.. no skype and now locked out of student finance"23:42
dutchiethere appears to be a rather large lack of documentation, and i certainly couldn't help her with it earlier23:43
hamitron:/23:43
hamitronto be fair, a lot of comp suppliers kill all OS ;) Packard Bell made me hate Windows 723:44
hamitronbrb23:45

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