| Milyardo | So what need need then are more games written in .NET and Mono will be okay? | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| snap-l | Milyardo: Folks that hate on Mono and don't hate on Java are blind to the problems with both | 00:12 |
| rick_h__ | I just prefer to hate | 00:13 |
| snap-l | It's just that it's convenient to hate on Microsoft's technology because of the underlying opinion that Microsoft wouldn't create anything without ulterior motives | 00:13 |
| snap-l | ie: mono will be a patent trap, or will get changed to keep developers scrambling or... | 00:14 |
| snap-l | Which are complaints that can be leveled at Java, or any other corporate controlled language. | 00:14 |
| snap-l | Good morning | 13:15 |
| snap-l | So, I finally got a hold of someoene that can help me with the Java code at work | 13:15 |
| rick_h__ | wheeee | 13:15 |
| snap-l | and right off the bat, he says to use Eclipse | 13:15 |
| rick_h__ | lol | 13:16 |
| greg-g | haha | 13:16 |
| greg-g | g'morn | 13:16 |
| rick_h__ | that's why I'm a bit of a 'look down' on the IDE folks. | 13:16 |
| snap-l | And hands me a project file / bundle / whatever the hell it is | 13:16 |
| greg-g | guess who's been getting up way too early lately? That's right, this guy. 7am is ungodly | 13:16 |
| rick_h__ | can't code without their buttons to press | 13:16 |
| rick_h__ | greg-g: hah, come on. I was clocked into work a quarter till 7 | 13:16 |
| snap-l | seriously Java isn't a programming language as much as it is an oral tradition. | 13:16 |
| snap-l | with inexplicable code bundles handed down from generation to generation of coders. | 13:17 |
| rick_h__ | "this magic eclipse project will build...we don't know why, but by god it builds | 13:18 |
| tjagoda | Sounds like a different kind of oral tradition. | 13:18 |
| tjagoda | /pun music | 13:18 |
| snap-l | I think there's one developer out there that cranks out this stuff | 13:21 |
| snap-l | once he gets fed up, Java will cease to be. | 13:21 |
| snap-l | (or she, for that matter) | 13:22 |
| tjagoda | lol | 13:23 |
| brousch | greg-g: poor baby. i get up at 6am every day and the first thing i have to do is wake my cranky wife and cranky kid | 13:32 |
| rick_h__ | new ones? | 13:32 |
| brousch | eh? | 13:32 |
| rick_h__ | maybe get some non-cranky versions | 13:33 |
| rick_h__ | seems like a bad feature to me | 13:33 |
| rick_h__ | sorry, wife and I joke about getting upgraded versions of each other and such. Guess it's not quite normal to everyone else | 13:34 |
| brousch | these are people, not robots, you insensitive clod | 13:35 |
| _stink_ | isn't that just new firmware? | 13:35 |
| rick_h__ | _stink_: meh, it's like new android phones | 13:35 |
| rick_h__ | you could root/upgrade but you might as well just get the newer versions | 13:35 |
| _stink_ | ha, the whole thing then | 13:35 |
| _stink_ | sign me up | 13:35 |
| brousch | please do not root your children | 13:35 |
| greg-g | brousch: yeah, the gf is still sleeping when I wake up and leave :/ | 13:46 |
| snap-l | http://decafbad.net/2011/05/04/tear-down-this-wall/ <- The thought for the day. | 14:02 |
| rick_h__ | lol, "public static final" | 14:03 |
| rick_h__ | always fitting java into your posts snap-l, you fanboi :P | 14:03 |
| snap-l | Yah, totally | 14:03 |
| greg-g | I liked it, made me giggle | 14:04 |
| rick_h__ | OMG I love zsh | 14:07 |
| rick_h__ | rm **/*.pyc | 14:07 |
| rick_h__ | bammo | 14:07 |
| rick_h__ | greg-g: can you do recurring meetings in the loco directory? | 14:10 |
| snap-l | for CHC? | 14:11 |
| snap-l | Not easily. | 14:11 |
| snap-l | I think you have to copy the event | 14:11 |
| rick_h__ | yea, was thinking of starting a rebranding of UH/CHC | 14:11 |
| snap-l | Calling it Ubuntu Hour instead? | 14:11 |
| rick_h__ | combining a bit | 14:11 |
| snap-l | Yeah, that makes sense | 14:11 |
| rick_h__ | Ubuntu House:CofeeHouseCoders | 14:11 |
| rick_h__ | nice little shortcut of UH:CHC | 14:12 |
| rick_h__ | claim we work with the community and such so the dual brand | 14:12 |
| rick_h__ | but get it on the calendar | 14:12 |
| snap-l | sellout. ;) | 14:12 |
| * greg-g nods | 14:12 | |
| greg-g | I like | 14:12 |
| greg-g | I'll report a bug against loco directory for the feature request part, but I'm game for the rebranding, of course | 14:13 |
| snap-l | But yeah, I was going to put it on the events calendar, but hesitated because it wasn't ubuntu specufic | 14:13 |
| snap-l | So a slight re-branding would work | 14:13 |
| rick_h__ | dammit, I hate canonical web UX | 14:14 |
| rick_h__ | that time picker is the suck | 14:14 |
| snap-l | Oh totally. | 14:14 |
| snap-l | You can't even type in a value | 14:14 |
| brousch | yeah, that thing is annoying. i'll bet it's really annoying if you hate your mouse | 14:14 |
| rick_h__ | what? have to put it in diff time? | 14:14 |
| snap-l | Try typing in 20:00 and see what happens. | 14:15 |
| rick_h__ | I'm regretting my decision just based on getting it in this freaking suckitude of a web page | 14:15 |
| rick_h__ | no, you mean 00 since it's +4 | 14:15 |
| snap-l | Events are local time, no? | 14:15 |
| rick_h__ | dammit, so CHC is 00 the 6th? | 14:15 |
| rick_h__ | no, UTC | 14:16 |
| rick_h__ | sorry, 00 5th | 14:16 |
| snap-l | The natty panel event that I put in was under EDT | 14:16 |
| brousch | i think it's local time | 14:16 |
| brousch | i remember having to pick the time zone | 14:16 |
| rick_h__ | no, it says all events must be in UTC | 14:17 |
| rick_h__ | but then it says the TZ is +1 | 14:17 |
| rick_h__ | do we have a TZ in our team settings? | 14:17 |
| brousch | maybe recurring events are different? | 14:17 |
| rick_h__ | there's no recurring events | 14:17 |
| rick_h__ | this is for a meeting vs an event | 14:17 |
| rick_h__ | at least that's what I figured this was since there's no signup/etc | 14:17 |
| rick_h__ | ugh, pita | 14:17 |
| brousch | ah, that could be | 14:17 |
| snap-l | I think it might be better to put it as an event | 14:18 |
| greg-g | oh, yeah, meetings are UTC, because it does fancy IRC log parsing | 14:18 |
| jrwren | Milyardo: blind hatred of MSFT. The extremists don't use samba and hate it just as much and will offer solutions like "use NFS" | 14:18 |
| snap-l | since it isn't a team meeting | 14:18 |
| greg-g | events are local time | 14:18 |
| rick_h__ | ah, events are local | 14:18 |
| rick_h__ | gotcha | 14:18 |
| snap-l | yeah | 14:19 |
| rick_h__ | ok, well events had all this extra crap I didn't need/want so went with meeting | 14:19 |
| rick_h__ | going back | 14:19 |
| jrwren | rick_h__++ I use an IDE, but I still look down on the ide folks :) | 14:19 |
| greg-g | btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/777098 | 14:19 |
| snap-l | Marked as affecting me as well | 14:19 |
| greg-g | thankya | 14:20 |
| rick_h__ | ok, added the month of may at least | 14:21 |
| rick_h__ | we'll see if I copy/keep it up | 14:22 |
| snap-l | I can maintain it if you want. | 14:22 |
| snap-l | I'm kinda anal about calendars. ;) | 14:22 |
| brousch | will you make rick_h__ boot from an ubuntu livecd at the meetings? | 14:22 |
| snap-l | Nah, he'll come around eventually | 14:23 |
| snap-l | the fifth time that X crashes for no reason, he'll be back. ;) | 14:23 |
| rick_h__ | had 5 of them :( | 14:23 |
| rick_h__ | but spread over several weeks | 14:23 |
| snap-l | I mean in one day. | 14:23 |
| rick_h__ | heh, I think 3 in one day would trigger a reinstall | 14:24 |
| greg-g | not to be a wet blanket in ubuntu-land, but a buddy from another channel had unity crash 3 times on him yesterday for no apparent reason, on a fresh install :/ | 14:24 |
| snap-l | greg-g: I'd believe it | 14:25 |
| snap-l | Unity is hard on graphics hardware | 14:25 |
| greg-g | I was saddened by it. The first it crashed completely, the second was alt-tab wouldn't display the windows being tab'd through (but would "blindly" work), the third I'm not sure | 14:25 |
| rick_h__ | it's getting hardon users | 14:25 |
| brousch | i haven't had it crash, but i also haven't used it for real work or for longer than an hour at a stretch | 14:25 |
| rick_h__ | with a space in there | 14:25 |
| snap-l | I think a lot of folks that found the intel cards "good enough" are going to be rethinking that decision. | 14:25 |
| greg-g | brousch: oh, I thought you were full time with it for some reason | 14:25 |
| rick_h__ | yea, I'm seeing a lot of folks thinking about really jumping ship | 14:26 |
| brousch | greg-g: http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2011/05/02/natty-and-unity-at-wmlug/ | 14:26 |
| snap-l | Thing is, Unity is still beta software | 14:27 |
| jrwren | no it is not. | 14:27 |
| jrwren | it is released. | 14:27 |
| jrwren | it may be poor quality, but canonical shipped it. | 14:27 |
| jrwren | there is no beta in there. | 14:27 |
| rick_h__ | ok fine: "it's beta quality software" | 14:28 |
| greg-g | jrwren: :) I agree. It is like calling KDE 4.0 "beta" | 14:28 |
| snap-l | rick_h__: ++ | 14:28 |
| rick_h__ | release early/often has its drawbacks...see bookie blow ups | 14:28 |
| snap-l | Thing is, KDE 4.0 was beta quality | 14:28 |
| greg-g | but we loves rick_h__ | 14:28 |
| jrwren | yet gmail beta was extremely high quality. IMO higher quality than it is these days. | 14:28 |
| snap-l | even though it was "released" | 14:28 |
| jrwren | so I'm not sure what "beta quality" maens. | 14:28 |
| jrwren | I've used betas of extremely high quality. | 14:28 |
| greg-g | "not releaseable" | 14:28 |
| rick_h__ | bah, beta == known bugs and gmail had that | 14:28 |
| jrwren | so lets just call it poor quality or buggy | 14:28 |
| rick_h__ | now they carried that tag way too long | 14:28 |
| rick_h__ | but a giant new window manager framework that's < 1yr old should have a beta tag on it | 14:29 |
| snap-l | jrwren: We're getting into a semantic war that nobody will be able to definitively win. ;) | 14:29 |
| jrwren | truth. | 14:29 |
| jrwren | so lets argue about something else... like was it really war? | 14:29 |
| snap-l | and who really won? | 14:30 |
| jrwren | giant new window manager? how big is it? | 14:30 |
| jrwren | it can't be more than a few thousand lines of code. | 14:30 |
| rick_h__ | bigger than pytile :P | 14:30 |
| jrwren | hehe. | 14:30 |
| snap-l | Well, Unity also includes app changes to make it work better | 14:30 |
| rick_h__ | I don't know, if they go about their C anything like their python/launchpad it's a lot more than that | 14:30 |
| snap-l | XEMBED is deprecated. | 14:30 |
| brousch | so if they'd released it with a giant BETA on the desktop background it would've been ok? | 14:30 |
| greg-g | I'm still hung up on the fact that Unity is *just* a plugin to Compiz | 14:30 |
| rick_h__ | greg-g: funny isn't it | 14:31 |
| snap-l | brousch: Of course not | 14:31 |
| snap-l | brousch: They'd need to make that text customizable | 14:31 |
| snap-l | brousch: So instead of saying "BETA", it could say "Joe's Chicken Shack", or have an API to put a clock there. | 14:32 |
| rick_h__ | brousch: personally, I'd say at this point it should have been a install time option | 14:32 |
| snap-l | or your entire todo list. | 14:32 |
| rick_h__ | "would you like to help beta test our huge cluster?" | 14:32 |
| snap-l | rick_h__: Nobody would use it, then. ;) | 14:32 |
| rick_h__ | see: https://luke.faraone.cc/blog/2011/05/your-release-sucks/ | 14:32 |
| snap-l | That's what Ubuntu Classic is for | 14:32 |
| rick_h__ | right, but when crap crashes it doesn't say "I noticed you had a big boom crash. Would you like me to install the classic for you?" | 14:33 |
| brousch | classic is always installed | 14:33 |
| rick_h__ | ok fine "Would you like me to switch to classic for you" | 14:33 |
| snap-l | rick_h__: You're assuming that the person involved with the crash still has display drivers that aren't completely fucked at this point. ;) | 14:33 |
| brousch | well actually it does say that if your graphics drivers aren't up to snuff ;) | 14:34 |
| snap-l | blink blink blink blink blink | 14:34 |
| rick_h__ | brousch: then the code to do it is already there | 14:34 |
| brousch | It says something like "your graphics drivers suck. logout and switch to classic" | 14:34 |
| rick_h__ | they should also be referencing a list of drivers that are know to be causing issues this release | 14:34 |
| snap-l | rick_h__: ++ | 14:35 |
| rick_h__ | good ole blacklist is back "lots of people with that totally legit card, but which we didn't test much, are having crashes, we'd like to provide you a more stable experience to reduce our hate mail kthx" | 14:35 |
| jrwren | that would be great. | 14:35 |
| jrwren | and not do that until after the first crash... so people who do have a good experience continue to have a good experience. | 14:35 |
| rick_h__ | stable > pretty | 14:35 |
| rick_h__ | jrwren: totally, get the bug report | 14:35 |
| rick_h__ | and get the crash count | 14:35 |
| rick_h__ | so you know about it since you're basically turning live people into beta testers on hardware that wasn't well tested | 14:36 |
| jrwren | you guys should go code that up | 14:36 |
| rick_h__ | but after that first crash...don't do it 3 times in one day | 14:36 |
| rick_h__ | and piss off greg-g's buddy | 14:36 |
| jrwren | who is that? | 14:36 |
| rick_h__ | greg-g's buddy had 3 crashes in one day and is not happy with natty | 14:36 |
| rick_h__ | see backlog | 14:37 |
| snap-l | http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/h3las/attachmate_lays_off_mono_employees/ <- This discussion really pisses me off | 14:37 |
| rick_h__ | add that to the comments you don't read | 14:38 |
| snap-l | mostly because people are so blinded by hate that they can't see potential good | 14:38 |
| rick_h__ | /. reddit youtube | 14:38 |
| snap-l | Meh, I like the comments on Reddit | 14:38 |
| snap-l | Tehre's some gold in there | 14:38 |
| snap-l | Youtube's featured comments are about as far as I can get before they blow up into crap and racism | 14:39 |
| snap-l | actually, racism is definitely in the set of crap | 14:40 |
| jrwren | snap-l: the fact that the original article is a lie should piss you off too | 14:40 |
| snap-l | http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2011/05/attachmate-lays-off-mono-emplo.html#comment-153773 <- The fact that Bradley Kuhn is the voice of reason here is sad. | 14:41 |
| brousch | jrwren: attachmate is not laying off the mono people? | 14:41 |
| jrwren | nope. | 14:42 |
| jrwren | its all a lie. | 14:42 |
| jrwren | no mono people were laid off. | 14:42 |
| jrwren | 100 or so people from Novell were laid off in provo Utah. | 14:42 |
| jrwren | no one on the mono team was laid off. | 14:42 |
| wolfger | "Its about what is an application and what is a program." | 14:43 |
| wolfger | ... | 14:44 |
| jrwren | snap-l: I like that reddit comment thread... lots of posts with negative points. | 14:46 |
| jrwren | now there are also too many comments with high + points that should be negative, but at least there is some good in tehre :) | 14:47 |
| snap-l | IT's just a bowl full of stupid | 14:47 |
| wolfger | a lot of pointless bickering over what is a good language | 14:47 |
| wolfger | and idiocy like the above "what is an app and what is a program" quote | 14:48 |
| jrwren | rofl @ GTK# is patent incumbered. | 14:48 |
| jrwren | ROFL ROFL. | 14:48 |
| jrwren | well, then, I guess GTK+ is too! | 14:48 |
| snap-l | It's the same bullshit argument that we're somehow chasing Microsoft and asking for a seat at the big-boys table | 14:48 |
| wolfger | what about GTK++? | 14:48 |
| snap-l | And that it's a patent trap | 14:48 |
| jrwren | oh definitely. | 14:48 |
| jrwren | must be. | 14:48 |
| jrwren | so that means all of gnome too, because its built on GTK | 14:49 |
| jrwren | gnome is a MS patent trap! | 14:49 |
| snap-l | in case anyone hadn't noticed, just about anything is a patent trap | 14:49 |
| jrwren | i'm not sure the phrase "patent trap" even makes sense. | 14:49 |
| snap-l | It makes as much sense as a parent trap | 14:49 |
| jrwren | hrm... Haley Mills or Lindsay Lohan? | 14:50 |
| snap-l | both | 14:50 |
| wolfger | "parent trap" was a movie about trapping parents | 14:50 |
| wolfger | patent traps are not about trapping patents | 14:50 |
| wolfger | totally inappropriate comparisson | 14:50 |
| wolfger | :-) | 14:50 |
| snap-l | so, by extension, we should make a movie with Lindsay Lohan about trapping patents | 14:50 |
| wolfger | Let's use Kim Khardasian instead. She's hotter. | 14:51 |
| jrwren | I think she would be better at trapping something else. | 14:51 |
| jrwren | ZOMG GROSS. | 14:51 |
| snap-l | I'm sure she'll be pretty reasonably priced once she gets off probation / jail / whatever. | 14:51 |
| jrwren | I don't understand who the world thinks she is hot. | 14:51 |
| jrwren | or why the world thinks she is hot. | 14:51 |
| jrwren | gross gross gross. | 14:51 |
| snap-l | jrwren: There's a certain contingent of folks that enjoy the easy slut look | 14:52 |
| wolfger | so... jrwren thinks Lindsay Lohan is hotter? | 14:52 |
| jrwren | gross gross gross. | 14:52 |
| jrwren | Lohan at her prime was hot. | 14:52 |
| jrwren | these days... not so much. | 14:52 |
| snap-l | I prefer something that can at least hold up the end of a conversation without trying to hold themselves onto a barstool. | 14:52 |
| jrwren | snap-l: brains? those just get in the way of my adgenda ;] | 14:53 |
| wolfger | ++ | 14:53 |
| wolfger | Kim appeals to those who like booty | 14:54 |
| jrwren | i like booty. she does not appeal to me. | 14:54 |
| wolfger | O.o | 14:54 |
| snap-l | She's as appealing as a used cigarette | 14:54 |
| wolfger | to each their own, I guess | 14:55 |
| wolfger | mind you, she's not on my top 10 list... all I said was she's hotter than Lindsay. And about on-par celebrity-wise. | 14:56 |
| snap-l | wolfger: I can live with that. | 14:56 |
| ColonelPanic001 | I have just walked into something | 14:58 |
| wolfger | "I can't think of a hotter reality show floozy". How's that for a ringing endorsement? XD | 14:58 |
| _stink_ | better weigh in, ColonelPanic001 | 14:58 |
| snap-l | http://cdmckay.org/blog/2011/05/02/things-i-miss-from-java-while-programming-in-c/ <- Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't think I'd miss any of these so-called "features". | 14:59 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Kim Cardassian looks too artificial. | 14:59 |
| rick_h__ | @!$##$@ speaking of X crashes... | 14:59 |
| snap-l | ruh roh | 14:59 |
| ColonelPanic001 | I'm sticking with my Natalie Portman infatuation. You all can take the useless idiot reality show "stars". | 15:00 |
| snap-l | Hey tbemus | 15:00 |
| jrwren | snap-l: you aren't writing enough code then :) | 15:00 |
| snap-l | tbemus: Quick, somewhat embarrassing question if you've got a sec. | 15:00 |
| tbemus | sure | 15:00 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Maybe I'm not | 15:01 |
| jrwren | snap-l: although the anonymous inner classes point I think the author misunderstands what is going on. the other points I kind of agree with him on. | 15:01 |
| snap-l | tbemus: https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#5602143548380050258 <- Who is the lady on the left? | 15:01 |
| jrwren | ColonelPanic001: do you have black swan on repeat? | 15:01 |
| snap-l | I should know this. | 15:01 |
| wolfger | curse my anti-picasaweb work firewall :-p | 15:02 |
| ColonelPanic001 | jrwren: never saw it | 15:02 |
| tbemus | snap-l: Mary Tolmech - She is a regular at the MDLug meetings | 15:02 |
| ColonelPanic001 | she looked starved, from what I saw, anyway | 15:02 |
| snap-l | Thank you. :) | 15:02 |
| ColonelPanic001 | but it is aronofsky, so I will eventually | 15:02 |
| snap-l | I thought her name was Mary, but I wasn't 100% sure | 15:02 |
| tbemus | Your welcome | 15:03 |
| wolfger | ok, can it be lunchtime yet? | 15:04 |
| jrwren | ColonelPanic001: its a great movie. and I'm not a huge portman fan. | 15:04 |
| wolfger | I am both hungry and tired. I would like some food and a nap :-p | 15:04 |
| ColonelPanic001 | jrwren: noted, thanks | 15:06 |
| ColonelPanic001 | in other related news, I just found that WSU has a page for their cheerleaders. | 15:07 |
| wolfger | woot! | 15:07 |
| jrwren | o_O | 15:07 |
| snap-l | That's like finding out that WSU has a football team | 15:07 |
| jrwren | I remember liking the oakland dance team back when I went there. | 15:07 |
| jrwren | I'd take 1/2 or maybe all of them over any of the aforementioned celebs. | 15:08 |
| snap-l | I did not like the Venturettes (Bishop Foley's Dance Team) | 15:08 |
| jrwren | high school groups always suck IMO. | 15:08 |
| jrwren | or... back when I was in high school... the never sucked when you wanted them to. | 15:09 |
| jrwren | *oh snap* | 15:09 |
| snap-l | Mostly because somoene got the bright idea to play Axel F at top volume through the shitty horn speakers in the gym | 15:09 |
| wolfger | <rimshot> | 15:09 |
| jrwren | rofl. | 15:09 |
| * jrwren imagines a breakin' crew dancin with the nuns | 15:10 | |
| snap-l | jrwren: You wish | 15:10 |
| snap-l | It was the girls team for those who didn't do cheerleading | 15:11 |
| jrwren | right. | 15:11 |
| jrwren | and I'm LMAO picturing them in neon clothes and headbands and wristbands doing backspins and headspins with nuns | 15:12 |
| snap-l | Also, Foley was the more 1970s version of nuns | 15:12 |
| snap-l | no habits, folk music | 15:12 |
| snap-l | Vatican II was in full effect there. | 15:12 |
| jrwren | i know. | 15:13 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Sounds like a movie sequel. | 15:13 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Vatican II: The Resurrection | 15:13 |
| snap-l | Considering they let a Lutheran in there, that was pretty big. :) | 15:13 |
| _stink_ | DAMNIT | 15:13 |
| wolfger | the connection is so obvious.... Axel Foley... Bishop Foley.... | 15:13 |
| jrwren | but lots of silly movies of the same time period...well...ok... a little earlier... made hokey nuns in habits references. | 15:13 |
| _stink_ | ColonelPanic001: i had just typed that exact thing in | 15:13 |
| wolfger | Vatican II: Electric Boogaloo | 15:13 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Sister Act this wasn't. ;) | 15:13 |
| snap-l | wolfger: lol | 15:13 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Vatican II: Revelations | 15:13 |
| _stink_ | Vatican II: Chastity is Dead | 15:14 |
| wolfger | lol | 15:14 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Vatican II: Weekend At Ratzinger's | 15:14 |
| snap-l | Though I'm sure they didn't like me referring to John Paul II as "The Deuce" | 15:14 |
| wolfger | Vatican II: Why are the alter boys all scared? | 15:14 |
| snap-l | That, and my mom packed me baloney sandwiches during lent. | 15:14 |
| jrwren | I was thinking Repossessed :) | 15:14 |
| snap-l | So I'd be sitting there eating meat on a Friday in a Catholic school. | 15:15 |
| wolfger | s/alter/altar/ :-p | 15:15 |
| _stink_ | snap-l: that is awesome | 15:15 |
| wolfger | _stink_++ | 15:15 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I'm a rebel. | 15:15 |
| wolfger | it was a subtle statement... "no-meat on Fridays is baloney" | 15:16 |
| wolfger | Did they call you Baloney Maloney? | 15:16 |
| snap-l | wolfger: Ever since first grade, thank you. | 15:16 |
| wolfger | children and moms are so cruel | 15:17 |
| snap-l | Though one of the coaches shared my last name | 15:18 |
| snap-l | so people naturally assumed we were related. | 15:18 |
| snap-l | didn't help that he also had reddish hair | 15:18 |
| snap-l | Coach Edward maloney | 15:18 |
| wolfger | "why does the coach's son suck at sports?" | 15:18 |
| snap-l | I'm sure that came up a few times. | 15:19 |
| brousch | and what's their secret baloney connection? | 15:19 |
| snap-l | Why is he in band | 15:19 |
| wolfger | snap-l: the orignal Glee | 15:19 |
| wolfger | did you get slushied a lot? | 15:20 |
| snap-l | I don't sing in public. :) | 15:20 |
| snap-l | If they had an American Idol for drummers, I'd totally be there. :) | 15:20 |
| wolfger | poor JoDee | 15:20 |
| wolfger | because I know what the "in public" attachment means... | 15:21 |
| snap-l | wolfger: Well, lets just say one year people got a taste of me trying to sing Ashes to Ashes by David Bowie | 15:21 |
| wolfger | If you don't sing, you don't sing. If you don't sing in public, the people who live with you suffer. | 15:21 |
| snap-l | (at Penguicon) | 15:21 |
| wolfger | when is Penguicon, anyway? | 15:22 |
| wolfger | I feel like it should be here soon | 15:23 |
| wolfger | :-p | 15:23 |
| snap-l | wolfger: Yeah, wasn't this just the pre-show? | 15:23 |
| wolfger | feels like it. | 15:23 |
| wolfger | it just.... was *less* than usual, somehow | 15:24 |
| wolfger | partly because I was tired and in bed earlier than normal (for con) every night | 15:24 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Saturday night was the best Pcon Saturday night I've ever had. | 15:24 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Then again, I drank more than usual, might be related. | 15:24 |
| wolfger | but even aside from the missed parties, it felt like the days just flew by without much happening | 15:25 |
| ColonelPanic001 | but I was right behind the actual romans when they paraded through the lobby, I watched a drunken nerd wrestle a viking to the ground in the hotel hallways, and was there when packed Hallway by the romans all sang "Piano Man" at screaming-sound-levels. It was a good night. | 15:25 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I did the panels I was involved with, the Smithee Awards, and the Unity panel | 15:25 |
| ColonelPanic001 | I did a few offbeat ones. "Something About Dopamine" was really good | 15:26 |
| ColonelPanic001 | the Killer Android one was okay | 15:27 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Apartment-Friendly Composting was neat, although I doubt I'll try it myself. | 15:27 |
| snap-l | Yeah, my biggest complaint would be that the good talks were opposite my talks. | 15:27 |
| snap-l | good tech talks, rather | 15:28 |
| ColonelPanic001 | they did tend to cluster together | 15:28 |
| brousch | greg-g: Do you know if there's a way to order the photos that get displayed here? http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan | 15:33 |
| brousch | I think it's showing mine first because my username is first alphabetically | 15:33 |
| snap-l | Man, I love Google Voice | 15:37 |
| snap-l | I've set some annoying idiots to go to voicemail (Bank of America advertisers) | 15:37 |
| snap-l | Just save the contact, set "send directly to voice mail", and I don't have to hear a thing. | 15:38 |
| wolfger | ColonelPanic001: Yeah, the dopamine panel was very interesting | 15:39 |
| wolfger | my favorite was the molecular gastronomy panel, though (ever so slightly) | 15:39 |
| wolfger | I want to make little spheres of Bailey's Irish Cream now | 15:40 |
| ColonelPanic001 | last year there was one or two about neural networks that was really good | 15:41 |
| wolfger | the panel on dopamine explains why I enjoy a bad day at work more than a normal boring day at work. | 15:41 |
| wolfger | "Everything's breaking! Yay, dopamine!" :-p | 15:42 |
| binbrain | really odd that attachmate kicks suse over to germany, curious decision | 15:42 |
| snap-l | http://theoatmeal.com/comics/coffee <- I love the "Caffeine: How it works" section of this comic. | 15:43 |
| wolfger | I love the dancing goats graphic | 15:45 |
| snap-l | wolfger: You can get to that? | 15:45 |
| snap-l | Praise be. | 15:45 |
| ColonelPanic001 | official tea for Pcon next year?: http://www.adagio.com/signature_blend/blend.html?blend=13805 | 15:45 |
| snap-l | ColonelPanic001: Heh | 15:46 |
| snap-l | http://www.meijer.com/s/skyline-furniture-armless-accent-chair-esprit-pear/_/R-183409 <- Oh wow, I need 12 of these | 15:46 |
| wolfger | snap-l: this firewall's idea of what is ok and what is not truly boggles the mind... | 15:48 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I don't understand it | 15:48 |
| snap-l | unless one of the VPs needs their fix of The Oatmeal | 15:48 |
| _stink_ | man, the Oatmeal is really good. | 15:49 |
| snap-l | after all, he's a published author, you know. | 15:49 |
| snap-l | So, it's legitimate, or something | 15:49 |
| greg-g | brousch: no clue :/ | 16:26 |
| greg-g | brousch: I'm not the happiest with how they display those photos, but, whatevs right now | 16:27 |
| brousch | ok | 16:28 |
| brousch | looks like default sorting for the group | 16:28 |
| greg-g | gotcha | 16:32 |
| rick_h__ | http://chrisaitchison.com/2011/05/03/you-are-not-a-software-engineer | 17:04 |
| rick_h__ | for the software peep out there | 17:04 |
| snap-l | Does this mean I don't get to wear the striped hat, and can't blow the whistle? | 17:08 |
| wolfger | I *almost* stopped reading before it started making a little sense. | 17:09 |
| wolfger | He's really stretching a metaphor. Because if you don't plan out "where the petals and leaves will be", your software design scares me. | 17:10 |
| wolfger | haphazard software is not good. I should know... I've written it. :-p | 17:11 |
| brousch | coming from the construction industry, the finished building will not look exactly as the architect envisions it | 17:11 |
| brousch | often because their vision costs too much or is physically impractical | 17:11 |
| rick_h__ | meh, especially if you're agile/agilish, you plan out the big parts | 17:11 |
| rick_h__ | color scheme of the garden, layout, tall/small plants | 17:12 |
| rick_h__ | but it comes out as you work it | 17:12 |
| wolfger | Right. If you think everything that gets engineered comes out looking like the first blueprint, you're clearly a fool who's never seen what engineering is really like. | 17:12 |
| rick_h__ | you can play it any way, found it interesting | 17:13 |
| rick_h__ | I mean, we don't have to do match on 'will the total structure support the weight of itself...as final weight" | 17:13 |
| rick_h__ | we miss calculate some load numbers we refactor | 17:13 |
| wolfger | I've been on this one plant launch for 2 years now, and they are still making changes, even though we're "in production". Engineering is a lot more like gardening than this guy thinks. | 17:13 |
| rick_h__ | they forget to count the weight of the drywall...well uh oh | 17:13 |
| wolfger | now if you're writing unique code from scratch, which is a rarity in the professional world, then the gardener metaphor works better... but in my experience, professional coding is much more like taking pre-made bricks of code and arranging them in a blueprinted formation. | 17:19 |
| rick_h__ | heh, and I can compare that to planting a garden with purchased plants | 17:20 |
| rick_h__ | you build off blocks | 17:20 |
| wolfger | unless your code grows while you're sleeping, I think the gardening metaphor fails ;-) | 17:24 |
| wolfger | and if it does.... | 17:24 |
| wolfger | skynet is becoming self-aware. Destroy it now. | 17:24 |
| brousch | OSS software grows while you sleep, assuming you have developers in other countries | 17:27 |
| wolfger | LOL | 17:27 |
| wolfger | well, now you are getting into a cat-herding metaphor :-D | 17:27 |
| rick_h__ | cats like gardens | 17:28 |
| wolfger | touche | 17:34 |
| wolfger | a program is not a work of engineering.... it's cat-scratch | 17:35 |
| wolfger | seeing the apps here at Chrysler supports that theory 100% | 17:35 |
| snap-l | Seeing the code at Chrysler gives me faith inreverse evolution | 17:42 |
| snap-l | the theory of survival of the fittest is bunk over there. | 17:42 |
| wolfger | evidence #1, the TTTS self-service website. I get dangerously close to having a stroke and/or aneurism every time I use it. | 17:44 |
| wolfger | because the first thing you have to do is select an application, even though selecting an application is something you have to page down to get to | 17:45 |
| wolfger | and you know you have to, because a popup box tells you so | 17:45 |
| wolfger | rather than, you know, just popping up a box with the selection dialog | 17:45 |
| snap-l | That TTS system is garbage | 17:46 |
| wolfger | so you have to click ok on the box, click the selection dialog button, do a search for the application group code even if you know it by heart and did need the search dialog at all... | 17:46 |
| wolfger | then as soon as you get done with that, another pop-up says "hey, check your contact info to make sure it's right" | 17:47 |
| wolfger | even if you just went through all this 30 seconds ago | 17:47 |
| snap-l | I have to say, most ticket tracking systems are garbage | 17:47 |
| wolfger | I have "checked my contact info" as many as 6 times in a single day before | 17:47 |
| snap-l | and corporate catch-all systems are the worst. | 17:47 |
| wolfger | TTTS makes Bugzilla look elegant | 17:48 |
| snap-l | I agree, and I hate Bugzilla with a fiery passion | 17:51 |
| snap-l | Nothing say "we hate our users" more than Bugzilla | 17:51 |
| wolfger | This isn't a garden, it's an abandoned lot. | 17:59 |
| wolfger | all stinkweed and danylions | 18:00 |
| wolfger | and bugs | 18:00 |
| greg-g | rick_h__: ok if I tweet/dent: "Announcing the new combo Ubuntu Hour/Coffee House Coders in Detroit, MI http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/events !UbuntuMichigan" | 18:02 |
| snap-l | wolfger: And every three months, they send someone to groom it, so it isn't considered abandoned and reposessed. ;) | 18:03 |
| rick_h__ | greg-g: sure thing, though was debating on the "new" thing | 18:13 |
| rick_h__ | was trying to figure out a way to word it so that it was clear it's been going down for a while | 18:13 |
| rick_h__ | just not named right | 18:13 |
| rick_h__ | greg-g: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/312/ ?? | 18:24 |
| rick_h__ | http://paste.mitechie.com/show/313/ or maybe | 18:25 |
| snap-l | I like the second one | 18:31 |
| greg-g | ditto | 18:40 |
| rick_h__ | greg-g: cool, I'll post and then you want to RT? | 18:41 |
| rick_h__ | or was it something you wanted to post? | 18:41 |
| greg-g | either way..... Mind me? | 18:41 |
| rick_h__ | not at all | 18:42 |
| * greg-g shryugs | 18:42 | |
| greg-g | posted | 18:43 |
| ColonelPanic001 | I RTed. | 18:46 |
| ColonelPanic001 | I'm sure all two of my linux-related followers will read it | 18:47 |
| rick_h__ | now we just have to keep too many new people from finding out | 19:07 |
| rick_h__ | or I'll have to break down and get a real venue | 19:08 |
| brousch | put it on the ubuntu-mi mailing list | 19:10 |
| rick_h__ | brousch: stop helping | 19:10 |
| brousch | it will be awesome when 30 people show up for the next meeting | 19:10 |
| rick_h__ | yea, don't think that whole cofee house holds 30 people | 19:11 |
| brousch | standing room only. everyone balancing their laptop on one raised knee, typing with one hand, and holding their coffee in the other | 19:12 |
| ColonelPanic001 | our problem at Downriver CHC (read: me and a former coworker) is that the coffeehouse is nice, but has a really flaky internet connection | 19:14 |
| rick_h__ | yea, ours can get bad | 19:14 |
| brousch | rick_h__ will tether them all on his phone | 19:14 |
| rick_h__ | when I get my 4g | 19:14 |
| ColonelPanic001 | often we resort to just him putting up a wireless net on his phone. yeah | 19:14 |
| snap-l | Yeah, some evenings we have way too many people there. | 19:15 |
| snap-l | Not that I'm complaining | 19:15 |
| brousch | finding bigger coffeehouses can be a problem | 19:15 |
| rick_h__ | yea, you get big enough you rent a room...but then no beverages | 19:16 |
| brousch | you could encourage people to form smaller groups at various locations | 19:16 |
| snap-l | And then you get into dues, and pretty soon you're having board meetings. | 19:16 |
| rick_h__ | that's no fun | 19:16 |
| rick_h__ | you never know what the topic is going to be | 19:16 |
| brousch | who rally wants to drive 30 minutes for an hour meeting? | 19:16 |
| rick_h__ | *ahem* | 19:16 |
| rick_h__ | it's two hours and I do it every week kthx | 19:17 |
| brousch | with the rename you will have to cut the meeting time down | 19:17 |
| rick_h__ | 12/27 is my upgrade...man end end of the year | 19:17 |
| brousch | chc meets 7-9? | 19:19 |
| rick_h__ | 8-10 | 19:19 |
| rick_h__ | 7-10 on the last one of the week | 19:19 |
| rick_h__ | last week of the month that is | 19:20 |
| brousch | i want to do one, but i want it to start after my son goes to bed. so it would be 8:30 − 10 probably | 19:20 |
| brousch | seems so late | 19:22 |
| rick_h__ | yea, it's my latest night of the week | 19:22 |
| rick_h__ | but nice to have that scheduled hacking time every week | 19:22 |
| brousch | i se there's one in lansing now, so GR is the next logical location | 19:22 |
| brousch | i just realized we have the perfect spot for a CHC | 19:45 |
| brousch | and it would actually scale to 30+ pople easily | 19:47 |
| snap-l | "I used to think that PHP was the biggest, stinkiest dump that the computer industry had taken on my life in a decade. Then I started needing to do things that could only be accomplished in AppleScript." | 19:49 |
| snap-l | --jwz | 19:50 |
| brousch | wow | 19:50 |
| ColonelPanic001 | "PHP is a minor evil perpetrated and created by incompetent amateurs, whereas Perl is a great and insidious evil, perpetrated by skilled but perverted professionals." | 20:04 |
| ColonelPanic001 | my favorite | 20:04 |
| snap-l | And Java is just a miserable mess | 20:06 |
| greg-g | brousch: awesome re: perfect CHC location, do it! ;) | 20:13 |
| brousch | i'm talking it over with the venue owners | 20:14 |
| brousch | they don't technically have a cafe yet | 20:14 |
| brousch | have to bring ur own coffee | 20:14 |
| snap-l | http://spaz.spreadshirt.com/what-the-fuck-is-adobe-flash-A6003474/customize/color/2 | 22:26 |
| snap-l | http://steveire.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/octef.jpg | 22:28 |
| jordon_ | apple "geniouses" should wear that shirt | 22:40 |
| binbrain | I feel like I'm back in 1999, boxing with linux drivers all day | 23:04 |
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