[00:05] So what need need then are more games written in .NET and Mono will be okay? [00:12] Milyardo: Folks that hate on Mono and don't hate on Java are blind to the problems with both [00:13] I just prefer to hate [00:13] It's just that it's convenient to hate on Microsoft's technology because of the underlying opinion that Microsoft wouldn't create anything without ulterior motives [00:14] ie: mono will be a patent trap, or will get changed to keep developers scrambling or... [00:14] Which are complaints that can be leveled at Java, or any other corporate controlled language. [13:15] Good morning [13:15] So, I finally got a hold of someoene that can help me with the Java code at work [13:15] wheeee [13:15] and right off the bat, he says to use Eclipse [13:16] lol [13:16] haha [13:16] g'morn [13:16] that's why I'm a bit of a 'look down' on the IDE folks. [13:16] And hands me a project file / bundle / whatever the hell it is [13:16] guess who's been getting up way too early lately? That's right, this guy. 7am is ungodly [13:16] can't code without their buttons to press [13:16] greg-g: hah, come on. I was clocked into work a quarter till 7 [13:16] seriously Java isn't a programming language as much as it is an oral tradition. [13:17] with inexplicable code bundles handed down from generation to generation of coders. [13:18] "this magic eclipse project will build...we don't know why, but by god it builds [13:18] Sounds like a different kind of oral tradition. [13:18] /pun music [13:21] I think there's one developer out there that cranks out this stuff [13:21] once he gets fed up, Java will cease to be. [13:22] (or she, for that matter) [13:23] lol [13:32] greg-g: poor baby. i get up at 6am every day and the first thing i have to do is wake my cranky wife and cranky kid [13:32] new ones? [13:32] eh? [13:33] maybe get some non-cranky versions [13:33] seems like a bad feature to me [13:34] sorry, wife and I joke about getting upgraded versions of each other and such. Guess it's not quite normal to everyone else [13:35] these are people, not robots, you insensitive clod [13:35] <_stink_> isn't that just new firmware? [13:35] _stink_: meh, it's like new android phones [13:35] you could root/upgrade but you might as well just get the newer versions [13:35] <_stink_> ha, the whole thing then [13:35] <_stink_> sign me up [13:35] please do not root your children [13:46] brousch: yeah, the gf is still sleeping when I wake up and leave :/ [14:02] http://decafbad.net/2011/05/04/tear-down-this-wall/ <- The thought for the day. [14:03] lol, "public static final" [14:03] always fitting java into your posts snap-l, you fanboi :P [14:03] Yah, totally [14:04] I liked it, made me giggle [14:07] OMG I love zsh [14:07] rm **/*.pyc [14:07] bammo [14:10] greg-g: can you do recurring meetings in the loco directory? [14:11] for CHC? [14:11] Not easily. [14:11] I think you have to copy the event [14:11] yea, was thinking of starting a rebranding of UH/CHC [14:11] Calling it Ubuntu Hour instead? [14:11] combining a bit [14:11] Yeah, that makes sense [14:11] Ubuntu House:CofeeHouseCoders [14:12] nice little shortcut of UH:CHC [14:12] claim we work with the community and such so the dual brand [14:12] but get it on the calendar [14:12] sellout. ;) [14:12] * greg-g nods [14:12] I like [14:13] I'll report a bug against loco directory for the feature request part, but I'm game for the rebranding, of course [14:13] But yeah, I was going to put it on the events calendar, but hesitated because it wasn't ubuntu specufic [14:13] So a slight re-branding would work [14:14] dammit, I hate canonical web UX [14:14] that time picker is the suck [14:14] Oh totally. [14:14] You can't even type in a value [14:14] yeah, that thing is annoying. i'll bet it's really annoying if you hate your mouse [14:14] what? have to put it in diff time? [14:15] Try typing in 20:00 and see what happens. [14:15] I'm regretting my decision just based on getting it in this freaking suckitude of a web page [14:15] no, you mean 00 since it's +4 [14:15] Events are local time, no? [14:15] dammit, so CHC is 00 the 6th? [14:16] no, UTC [14:16] sorry, 00 5th [14:16] The natty panel event that I put in was under EDT [14:16] i think it's local time [14:16] i remember having to pick the time zone [14:17] no, it says all events must be in UTC [14:17] but then it says the TZ is +1 [14:17] do we have a TZ in our team settings? [14:17] maybe recurring events are different? [14:17] there's no recurring events [14:17] this is for a meeting vs an event [14:17] at least that's what I figured this was since there's no signup/etc [14:17] ugh, pita [14:17] ah, that could be [14:18] I think it might be better to put it as an event [14:18] oh, yeah, meetings are UTC, because it does fancy IRC log parsing [14:18] Milyardo: blind hatred of MSFT. The extremists don't use samba and hate it just as much and will offer solutions like "use NFS" [14:18] since it isn't a team meeting [14:18] events are local time [14:18] ah, events are local [14:18] gotcha [14:19] yeah [14:19] ok, well events had all this extra crap I didn't need/want so went with meeting [14:19] going back [14:19] rick_h__++ I use an IDE, but I still look down on the ide folks :) [14:19] btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/777098 [14:19] Marked as affecting me as well [14:20] thankya [14:21] ok, added the month of may at least [14:22] we'll see if I copy/keep it up [14:22] I can maintain it if you want. [14:22] I'm kinda anal about calendars. ;) [14:22] will you make rick_h__ boot from an ubuntu livecd at the meetings? [14:23] Nah, he'll come around eventually [14:23] the fifth time that X crashes for no reason, he'll be back. ;) [14:23] had 5 of them :( [14:23] but spread over several weeks [14:23] I mean in one day. [14:24] heh, I think 3 in one day would trigger a reinstall [14:24] not to be a wet blanket in ubuntu-land, but a buddy from another channel had unity crash 3 times on him yesterday for no apparent reason, on a fresh install :/ [14:25] greg-g: I'd believe it [14:25] Unity is hard on graphics hardware [14:25] I was saddened by it. The first it crashed completely, the second was alt-tab wouldn't display the windows being tab'd through (but would "blindly" work), the third I'm not sure [14:25] it's getting hardon users [14:25] i haven't had it crash, but i also haven't used it for real work or for longer than an hour at a stretch [14:25] with a space in there [14:25] I think a lot of folks that found the intel cards "good enough" are going to be rethinking that decision. [14:25] brousch: oh, I thought you were full time with it for some reason [14:26] yea, I'm seeing a lot of folks thinking about really jumping ship [14:26] greg-g: http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2011/05/02/natty-and-unity-at-wmlug/ [14:27] Thing is, Unity is still beta software [14:27] no it is not. [14:27] it is released. [14:27] it may be poor quality, but canonical shipped it. [14:27] there is no beta in there. [14:28] ok fine: "it's beta quality software" [14:28] jrwren: :) I agree. It is like calling KDE 4.0 "beta" [14:28] rick_h__: ++ [14:28] release early/often has its drawbacks...see bookie blow ups [14:28] Thing is, KDE 4.0 was beta quality [14:28] but we loves rick_h__ [14:28] yet gmail beta was extremely high quality. IMO higher quality than it is these days. [14:28] even though it was "released" [14:28] so I'm not sure what "beta quality" maens. [14:28] I've used betas of extremely high quality. [14:28] "not releaseable" [14:28] bah, beta == known bugs and gmail had that [14:28] so lets just call it poor quality or buggy [14:28] now they carried that tag way too long [14:29] but a giant new window manager framework that's < 1yr old should have a beta tag on it [14:29] jrwren: We're getting into a semantic war that nobody will be able to definitively win. ;) [14:29] truth. [14:29] so lets argue about something else... like was it really war? [14:30] and who really won? [14:30] giant new window manager? how big is it? [14:30] it can't be more than a few thousand lines of code. [14:30] bigger than pytile :P [14:30] hehe. [14:30] Well, Unity also includes app changes to make it work better [14:30] I don't know, if they go about their C anything like their python/launchpad it's a lot more than that [14:30] XEMBED is deprecated. [14:30] so if they'd released it with a giant BETA on the desktop background it would've been ok? [14:30] I'm still hung up on the fact that Unity is *just* a plugin to Compiz [14:31] greg-g: funny isn't it [14:31] brousch: Of course not [14:31] brousch: They'd need to make that text customizable [14:32] brousch: So instead of saying "BETA", it could say "Joe's Chicken Shack", or have an API to put a clock there. [14:32] brousch: personally, I'd say at this point it should have been a install time option [14:32] or your entire todo list. [14:32] "would you like to help beta test our huge cluster?" [14:32] rick_h__: Nobody would use it, then. ;) [14:32] see: https://luke.faraone.cc/blog/2011/05/your-release-sucks/ [14:32] That's what Ubuntu Classic is for [14:33] right, but when crap crashes it doesn't say "I noticed you had a big boom crash. Would you like me to install the classic for you?" [14:33] classic is always installed [14:33] ok fine "Would you like me to switch to classic for you" [14:33] rick_h__: You're assuming that the person involved with the crash still has display drivers that aren't completely fucked at this point. ;) [14:34] well actually it does say that if your graphics drivers aren't up to snuff ;) [14:34] blink blink blink blink blink [14:34] brousch: then the code to do it is already there [14:34] It says something like "your graphics drivers suck. logout and switch to classic" [14:34] they should also be referencing a list of drivers that are know to be causing issues this release [14:35] rick_h__: ++ [14:35] good ole blacklist is back "lots of people with that totally legit card, but which we didn't test much, are having crashes, we'd like to provide you a more stable experience to reduce our hate mail kthx" [14:35] that would be great. [14:35] and not do that until after the first crash... so people who do have a good experience continue to have a good experience. [14:35] stable > pretty [14:35] jrwren: totally, get the bug report [14:35] and get the crash count [14:36] so you know about it since you're basically turning live people into beta testers on hardware that wasn't well tested [14:36] you guys should go code that up [14:36] but after that first crash...don't do it 3 times in one day [14:36] and piss off greg-g's buddy [14:36] who is that? [14:36] greg-g's buddy had 3 crashes in one day and is not happy with natty [14:37] see backlog [14:37] http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/h3las/attachmate_lays_off_mono_employees/ <- This discussion really pisses me off [14:38] add that to the comments you don't read [14:38] mostly because people are so blinded by hate that they can't see potential good [14:38] /. reddit youtube [14:38] Meh, I like the comments on Reddit [14:38] Tehre's some gold in there [14:39] Youtube's featured comments are about as far as I can get before they blow up into crap and racism [14:40] actually, racism is definitely in the set of crap [14:40] snap-l: the fact that the original article is a lie should piss you off too [14:41] http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2011/05/attachmate-lays-off-mono-emplo.html#comment-153773 <- The fact that Bradley Kuhn is the voice of reason here is sad. [14:41] jrwren: attachmate is not laying off the mono people? [14:42] nope. [14:42] its all a lie. [14:42] no mono people were laid off. [14:42] 100 or so people from Novell were laid off in provo Utah. [14:42] no one on the mono team was laid off. [14:43] "Its about what is an application and what is a program." [14:44] ... [14:46] snap-l: I like that reddit comment thread... lots of posts with negative points. [14:47] now there are also too many comments with high + points that should be negative, but at least there is some good in tehre :) [14:47] IT's just a bowl full of stupid [14:47] a lot of pointless bickering over what is a good language [14:48] and idiocy like the above "what is an app and what is a program" quote [14:48] rofl @ GTK# is patent incumbered. [14:48] ROFL ROFL. [14:48] well, then, I guess GTK+ is too! [14:48] It's the same bullshit argument that we're somehow chasing Microsoft and asking for a seat at the big-boys table [14:48] what about GTK++? [14:48] And that it's a patent trap [14:48] oh definitely. [14:48] must be. [14:49] so that means all of gnome too, because its built on GTK [14:49] gnome is a MS patent trap! [14:49] in case anyone hadn't noticed, just about anything is a patent trap [14:49] i'm not sure the phrase "patent trap" even makes sense. [14:49] It makes as much sense as a parent trap [14:50] hrm... Haley Mills or Lindsay Lohan? [14:50] both [14:50] "parent trap" was a movie about trapping parents [14:50] patent traps are not about trapping patents [14:50] totally inappropriate comparisson [14:50] :-) [14:50] so, by extension, we should make a movie with Lindsay Lohan about trapping patents [14:51] Let's use Kim Khardasian instead. She's hotter. [14:51] I think she would be better at trapping something else. [14:51] ZOMG GROSS. [14:51] I'm sure she'll be pretty reasonably priced once she gets off probation / jail / whatever. [14:51] I don't understand who the world thinks she is hot. [14:51] or why the world thinks she is hot. [14:51] gross gross gross. [14:52] jrwren: There's a certain contingent of folks that enjoy the easy slut look [14:52] so... jrwren thinks Lindsay Lohan is hotter? [14:52] gross gross gross. [14:52] Lohan at her prime was hot. [14:52] these days... not so much. [14:52] I prefer something that can at least hold up the end of a conversation without trying to hold themselves onto a barstool. [14:53] snap-l: brains? those just get in the way of my adgenda ;] [14:53] ++ [14:54] Kim appeals to those who like booty [14:54] i like booty. she does not appeal to me. [14:54] O.o [14:54] She's as appealing as a used cigarette [14:55] to each their own, I guess [14:56] mind you, she's not on my top 10 list... all I said was she's hotter than Lindsay. And about on-par celebrity-wise. [14:56] wolfger: I can live with that. [14:58] I have just walked into something [14:58] "I can't think of a hotter reality show floozy". How's that for a ringing endorsement? XD [14:58] <_stink_> better weigh in, ColonelPanic001 [14:59] http://cdmckay.org/blog/2011/05/02/things-i-miss-from-java-while-programming-in-c/ <- Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't think I'd miss any of these so-called "features". [14:59] Kim Cardassian looks too artificial. [14:59] @!$##$@ speaking of X crashes... [14:59] ruh roh [15:00] I'm sticking with my Natalie Portman infatuation. You all can take the useless idiot reality show "stars". [15:00] Hey tbemus [15:00] snap-l: you aren't writing enough code then :) [15:00] tbemus: Quick, somewhat embarrassing question if you've got a sec. [15:00] sure [15:01] jrwren: Maybe I'm not [15:01] snap-l: although the anonymous inner classes point I think the author misunderstands what is going on. the other points I kind of agree with him on. [15:01] tbemus: https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#5602143548380050258 <- Who is the lady on the left? [15:01] ColonelPanic001: do you have black swan on repeat? [15:01] I should know this. [15:02] curse my anti-picasaweb work firewall :-p [15:02] jrwren: never saw it [15:02] snap-l: Mary Tolmech - She is a regular at the MDLug meetings [15:02] she looked starved, from what I saw, anyway [15:02] Thank you. :) [15:02] but it is aronofsky, so I will eventually [15:02] I thought her name was Mary, but I wasn't 100% sure [15:03] Your welcome [15:04] ok, can it be lunchtime yet? [15:04] ColonelPanic001: its a great movie. and I'm not a huge portman fan. [15:04] I am both hungry and tired. I would like some food and a nap :-p [15:06] jrwren: noted, thanks [15:07] in other related news, I just found that WSU has a page for their cheerleaders. [15:07] woot! [15:07] o_O [15:07] That's like finding out that WSU has a football team [15:07] I remember liking the oakland dance team back when I went there. [15:08] I'd take 1/2 or maybe all of them over any of the aforementioned celebs. [15:08] I did not like the Venturettes (Bishop Foley's Dance Team) [15:08] high school groups always suck IMO. [15:09] or... back when I was in high school... the never sucked when you wanted them to. [15:09] *oh snap* [15:09] Mostly because somoene got the bright idea to play Axel F at top volume through the shitty horn speakers in the gym [15:09] [15:09] rofl. [15:10] * jrwren imagines a breakin' crew dancin with the nuns [15:10] jrwren: You wish [15:11] It was the girls team for those who didn't do cheerleading [15:11] right. [15:12] and I'm LMAO picturing them in neon clothes and headbands and wristbands doing backspins and headspins with nuns [15:12] Also, Foley was the more 1970s version of nuns [15:12] no habits, folk music [15:12] Vatican II was in full effect there. [15:13] i know. [15:13] Sounds like a movie sequel. [15:13] Vatican II: The Resurrection [15:13] Considering they let a Lutheran in there, that was pretty big. :) [15:13] <_stink_> DAMNIT [15:13] the connection is so obvious.... Axel Foley... Bishop Foley.... [15:13] but lots of silly movies of the same time period...well...ok... a little earlier... made hokey nuns in habits references. [15:13] <_stink_> ColonelPanic001: i had just typed that exact thing in [15:13] Vatican II: Electric Boogaloo [15:13] jrwren: Sister Act this wasn't. ;) [15:13] wolfger: lol [15:13] Vatican II: Revelations [15:14] <_stink_> Vatican II: Chastity is Dead [15:14] lol [15:14] Vatican II: Weekend At Ratzinger's [15:14] Though I'm sure they didn't like me referring to John Paul II as "The Deuce" [15:14] Vatican II: Why are the alter boys all scared? [15:14] That, and my mom packed me baloney sandwiches during lent. [15:14] I was thinking Repossessed :) [15:15] So I'd be sitting there eating meat on a Friday in a Catholic school. [15:15] s/alter/altar/ :-p [15:15] <_stink_> snap-l: that is awesome [15:15] _stink_++ [15:15] Yeah, I'm a rebel. [15:16] it was a subtle statement... "no-meat on Fridays is baloney" [15:16] Did they call you Baloney Maloney? [15:16] wolfger: Ever since first grade, thank you. [15:17] children and moms are so cruel [15:18] Though one of the coaches shared my last name [15:18] so people naturally assumed we were related. [15:18] didn't help that he also had reddish hair [15:18] Coach Edward maloney [15:18] "why does the coach's son suck at sports?" [15:19] I'm sure that came up a few times. [15:19] and what's their secret baloney connection? [15:19] Why is he in band [15:19] snap-l: the orignal Glee [15:20] did you get slushied a lot? [15:20] I don't sing in public. :) [15:20] If they had an American Idol for drummers, I'd totally be there. :) [15:20] poor JoDee [15:21] because I know what the "in public" attachment means... [15:21] wolfger: Well, lets just say one year people got a taste of me trying to sing Ashes to Ashes by David Bowie [15:21] If you don't sing, you don't sing. If you don't sing in public, the people who live with you suffer. [15:21] (at Penguicon) [15:22] when is Penguicon, anyway? [15:23] I feel like it should be here soon [15:23] :-p [15:23] wolfger: Yeah, wasn't this just the pre-show? [15:23] feels like it. [15:24] it just.... was *less* than usual, somehow [15:24] partly because I was tired and in bed earlier than normal (for con) every night [15:24] Saturday night was the best Pcon Saturday night I've ever had. [15:24] Then again, I drank more than usual, might be related. [15:25] but even aside from the missed parties, it felt like the days just flew by without much happening [15:25] but I was right behind the actual romans when they paraded through the lobby, I watched a drunken nerd wrestle a viking to the ground in the hotel hallways, and was there when packed Hallway by the romans all sang "Piano Man" at screaming-sound-levels. It was a good night. [15:25] Yeah, I did the panels I was involved with, the Smithee Awards, and the Unity panel [15:26] I did a few offbeat ones. "Something About Dopamine" was really good [15:27] the Killer Android one was okay [15:27] Apartment-Friendly Composting was neat, although I doubt I'll try it myself. [15:27] Yeah, my biggest complaint would be that the good talks were opposite my talks. [15:28] good tech talks, rather [15:28] they did tend to cluster together [15:33] greg-g: Do you know if there's a way to order the photos that get displayed here? http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan [15:33] I think it's showing mine first because my username is first alphabetically [15:37] Man, I love Google Voice [15:37] I've set some annoying idiots to go to voicemail (Bank of America advertisers) [15:38] Just save the contact, set "send directly to voice mail", and I don't have to hear a thing. [15:39] ColonelPanic001: Yeah, the dopamine panel was very interesting [15:39] my favorite was the molecular gastronomy panel, though (ever so slightly) [15:40] I want to make little spheres of Bailey's Irish Cream now [15:41] last year there was one or two about neural networks that was really good [15:41] the panel on dopamine explains why I enjoy a bad day at work more than a normal boring day at work. [15:42] "Everything's breaking! Yay, dopamine!" :-p [15:42] really odd that attachmate kicks suse over to germany, curious decision [15:43] http://theoatmeal.com/comics/coffee <- I love the "Caffeine: How it works" section of this comic. [15:45] I love the dancing goats graphic [15:45] wolfger: You can get to that? [15:45] Praise be. [15:45] official tea for Pcon next year?: http://www.adagio.com/signature_blend/blend.html?blend=13805 [15:46] ColonelPanic001: Heh [15:46] http://www.meijer.com/s/skyline-furniture-armless-accent-chair-esprit-pear/_/R-183409 <- Oh wow, I need 12 of these [15:48] snap-l: this firewall's idea of what is ok and what is not truly boggles the mind... [15:48] Yeah, I don't understand it [15:48] unless one of the VPs needs their fix of The Oatmeal [15:49] <_stink_> man, the Oatmeal is really good. [15:49] after all, he's a published author, you know. [15:49] So, it's legitimate, or something [16:26] brousch: no clue :/ [16:27] brousch: I'm not the happiest with how they display those photos, but, whatevs right now [16:28] ok [16:28] looks like default sorting for the group [16:32] gotcha [17:04] http://chrisaitchison.com/2011/05/03/you-are-not-a-software-engineer [17:04] for the software peep out there [17:08] Does this mean I don't get to wear the striped hat, and can't blow the whistle? [17:09] I *almost* stopped reading before it started making a little sense. [17:10] He's really stretching a metaphor. Because if you don't plan out "where the petals and leaves will be", your software design scares me. [17:11] haphazard software is not good. I should know... I've written it. :-p [17:11] coming from the construction industry, the finished building will not look exactly as the architect envisions it [17:11] often because their vision costs too much or is physically impractical [17:11]