[00:06] <wgrant> lifeless: Yes, it's on LPS, but that normally gets ignored :)
[00:06] <lifeless> gawd I hope not
[00:07] <lifeless> so whats special
[00:07] <lifeless> also when is good for you
[00:07] <wgrant> It needs buildd-manager to be shut down before the update, then process-upload run, then proceed as normal.
[00:08] <lifeless> why?
[00:08] <wgrant> The directory name format has changed.
[00:09] <wgrant> And accepting and testing both seems more trouble than having a slightly special one-off upgrade.
[00:12] <lifeless> maxb: https://code.launchpad.net/~launchpad-committers/lpreview-body/packaging
[00:12] <lifeless> is done
[00:12] <lifeless> the other needs the regression in LP fixed
[00:13] <maxb> thanks
[00:13] <lifeless> maxb: can you follow up on the list so folk know
[01:21] <lifeless> wgrant: so whats the filename format change about
[01:21] <wgrant> lifeless: Removing BuildFarmJob.id.
[01:21] <wgrant> It was used to identify temporary upload directories.
[01:21] <lifeless> what did the filename encode, what does it encode, why does it encode it
[01:22] <wgrant> So, buildd-manager takes an upload and dumps it into a directory for process-upload.py --builds to handle.
[01:22] <wgrant> It used BuildFarmJob.id to identify the relevant build.
[01:22] <wgrant> Now it uses the job type and BPB/SPRB ID.
[01:22] <lifeless> is that in a metadata file or the dirname?
[01:23] <wgrant> dirname.
[01:23] <wgrant> (yes, ew)
[02:01] <LPCIBot> Yippie, build fixed!
[02:01] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #519: FIXED in 5 hr 12 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/519/
[02:03] <lifeless> wgrant: when would you like to talk?
[02:12] <wgrant> lifeless: Now's good for me.
[02:15] <wgrant> lifeless: You still prefer Skype?
[02:24] <lifeless> cooking lunch, will ping in a bit
[02:25] <wgrant> Sure.
[03:06] <lifeless> wgrant: ping
[03:07] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #240: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 9 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/240/
[03:12] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #38: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 10 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/38/
[03:16] <wgrant> lifeless: Hi.
[03:16] <lifeless> hi
[03:16] <wgrant> I'm ready.
[03:16] <lifeless> voip or skype is bestest
[03:16] <wgrant> I'm on Skype, I've not got SIP set up.
[05:37] <lifeless> poolie: jetlag?
[05:52] <lifeless> hmm, code free day :(
[06:09] <lifeless> wgrant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/777794 - please triage as you file :)
[06:09] <_mup_> Bug #777794: Bug subscription AJAX popups are too bold <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/777794 >
[06:10] <lifeless> 777789 too
[06:10] <lifeless> and 777786
[06:10] <wgrant> lifeless: I can't triage those.
[06:10] <lifeless> why not?
[06:10] <StevenK> Hm, I meant to file a low bug about that
[06:11] <wgrant> Because I don't know what importance they are.
[06:11] <lifeless> wgrant: take a good guess
[06:11] <wgrant> Given that there is meant to be a UI polish mode at the end of each feature, they should probably be High.
[06:11] <wgrant> But I don't know.
[06:11] <lifeless> the feature squads are not watching the tracker.
[06:11] <StevenK> If you set the importance and such like when you file a bug, we shouldn't say "Your bug will be triaged soon"
[06:11] <StevenK> Perhaps ...
[06:11] <wgrant> StevenK: That's for external people.
[06:11] <lifeless> StevenK: that prose is just the post-filing-notice, its not programmatic
[06:12] <wgrant> Right.
[06:13] <lifeless> wgrant: please triage them, even if its just to high + an email to gary to say 'these need your hand to really assign importance'.
[06:13] <lifeless> wgrant: you can certainly assess them in the context of the BugTriage wiki page
[06:15] <lifeless> wgrant: a nontrivial reason for doing is so that end user filed bugs which are not triaged are obvious on the portlets on https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+bugs
[06:15] <lifeless> the [non]zero distinction is easier for everyone to observe than a floating figure
[06:20] <poolie> hi lifeless
[06:20] <poolie> a bit
[06:37] <wgrant> DF's up to 62GB... this is going to take a little while.
[06:38] <StevenK> As in DF's DB?
[06:38] <wgrant> Yes.
[06:38] <wgrant> Hmm. Might need to clean some stuff out.
[06:38] <wgrant> lifeless: \l+ on staging?
[06:38] <lifeless> its fat too
[06:38] <lifeless> it has the garbo running nowadays
[06:39] <lifeless> qastaging is 275GB fwiw
[06:40] <lifeless> wgrant: ok, I've triaged your  bugs... next time I'll make em all opinion :P
[06:45] <lifeless> ohh nice
[06:45] <lifeless> +patches gone from oopses
[06:48] <wgrant> lifeless: Thanks.
[07:25] <wgrant> Hmm, the missing structural subscription listing a bit unfortunate.
[07:33] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #241: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 5 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/241/
[08:14] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #242: STILL FAILING in 41 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/242/
[08:59] <adeuring> good morning
[09:04] <mrevell> Hello!
[09:06] <poolie> hi mrevell
[09:06] <poolie> lifeless, did people ever consider changing the ec2 image to run tests on a tmpfs?
[09:06] <poolie> it doesn't seem to be using its whole cpu
[09:07] <bigjools> good morning
[09:12] <poolie> hi bigjools
[09:12] <lifeless> poolie: I don't think our ec2 stack has been all that optimised
[09:12] <lifeless> bigjools: missed you this morning
[09:12] <bigjools> lifeless: yeah sorry
[09:12] <lifeless> no worries
[09:12] <bigjools> was knackered
[09:12] <lifeless> perhaps we could talk in ~30 ?
[09:13] <bigjools> lifeless: I have a standup, but in  ~45 would work
[09:14] <lifeless> ok
[09:18] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #39: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 4 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/39/
[10:38] <poolie> hm so just moving bits of /var to ram doesn't immediately fail
[10:39] <poolie> and is doing little io
[10:39] <poolie> still lots of idle cpu, but i think that's just lack of parallelism
[10:55] <wgrant> bigjools: Bug #778408 may amuse you.
[10:55] <_mup_> Bug #778408: Deleting an unpublished publication behaves unexpectedly <soyuz-ftpmaster-tools> <soyuz-publish> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/778408 >
[10:57] <wgrant> (Side-effects of amusement may include uncontrollable sobbing and a sense of hopelessness.)
[11:00] <al> hehehe
[11:04] <wgrant> rvba: Have you seen the stable->db-devel merge conflict? It seems to be your stuff.
[11:04] <wgrant> So you're probably best to resolve it.
[11:05] <rvba> wgrant: I just saw that.
[11:06] <rvba> wgrant: can you guide me with how I can fix that?
[11:07] <rvba> wgrant: I understand the problem of course but I'm unsure about the procedure to solve it.
[11:07] <bigjools> wgrant: colour me unsurprised
[11:07] <wgrant> rvba: Grab stable and db-devel locally, merge stable into db-devel, fix the conflict as you would normally. Push the branch up somewhere, then pqm-submit it to db-devel.
[11:07] <bigjools> wgrant: we need yet more code to stop people from being stupid
[11:08] <wgrant> rvba: if you are feeling forgiving you could ask for a review, but I never do and haven't broken anything yet.
[11:08] <rvba> wgrant: thanks. I'll do that.
[11:24] <wgrant> bigjools: Do you have a list of stuff to kill from mawson? Its free space will probably not last the weekend.
[11:24] <bigjools> wgrant: yeah I was looking at that
[11:24] <wgrant> We could just start wiping out the archive, I guess.
[11:24] <bigjools> yes
[11:24] <bigjools> that archive is too fat
[11:24] <wgrant> Easy enough to bring back in a few hours if we need to.
[11:24] <wgrant> (sorry mizuho)
[11:24] <wgrant> It is fat, but was useful for testing a few things.
[11:25] <wgrant> But that's all done now.
[11:25] <bigjools> can be restored easy
[11:25] <bigjools> given time :)
[11:25] <wgrant> Yep.
[11:25]  * wgrant deletes.
[11:25] <wgrant> Mass deletion + restore == molten mawson?
[11:25] <bigjools> I bet it's hot it mawson's cabinet :D
[11:25] <bigjools> s/it/in/
[11:26] <bigjools> wgrant: it'll all be invalid once the db is restored anyway
[11:27] <bigjools> local librarian is 5.2G, purging
[11:27] <wgrant> Not really. This is all from frozen series.
[11:27] <wgrant> maverick + natty
[11:27] <bigjools> not all
[11:27] <bigjools> not sure they weren't frozen when we last restored
[11:28] <wgrant> maverick was released, and natty was basically identical to maverick.
[11:28] <wgrant> So it was mostly just maverick's final packages plus a few more.
[11:28] <wgrant> Anyway, deleting now.
[11:28] <wgrant> Very slowly.
[11:29] <bigjools> the disk stepper motor is going to fall off its track
[11:33] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #40: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 4 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/40/
[11:55] <rvba> wgrant: would you mind taking a look at this for a quick sanity check? https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/launchpad/db-devel-fix-merge-failure
[11:57] <wgrant> rvba: The diff is large, but as long as the tests you've changed pass it should be fine.
[11:58] <rvba> wgrant: yeah, the tests in the modified file pass.
[11:59]  * rvba bzr pqm-submit -m "Merge stable."
[12:01] <wgrant> rvba: You'll need a --submit-branch
[12:01] <bigjools> "fix conflict with stable" would be more accurate
[12:01] <wgrant> To target db-devel.
[12:01] <bigjools> and that
[12:01] <rvba> wgrant: oops ... too late.
[12:02] <wgrant> It should reject it.
[12:02] <lifeless> rvba: hi; its my weekend now, but wgrant may be able to answer your perf tuning thing if you're lucky
[12:03] <lifeless> rvba: otherwise I'll shoot you some thoughts on mondayish
[12:03] <wgrant> Where's that?
[12:03] <lifeless> wgrant: I'l forward
[12:03] <rvba> lifeless: thanks a lot. Have a good weekend!
[12:03] <wgrant> I have no email client at the moment, but I'll get one in a sec.
[12:06] <wgrant> rvba: So, what's the issue with it being a list?
[12:06] <wgrant> rvba: checkCopy is already pretty fast, except for one code path.
[12:06] <rvba> wgrant: since it's not a ResultSet there is not way to try to eager load related objects ... right?
[12:07] <rvba> s/not/no/
[12:07] <wgrant> rvba: You can't add a preiter hook to it, no. But that's just a handy place to do it... you can do the same thing manually afterwards.
[12:07] <wgrant> What are you looking to eager-load?
[12:09] <wgrant> (the slow bit is when _checkArchiveConflicts finds some destination_archive_conflicts)
[12:09] <rvba> I was just *thinking* of eager-loading related things since I saw the the kind of db queries issued looked like related objects being loaded.
[12:09] <rvba> but I might be wrong.
[12:10] <rvba> I you say it's pretty quick already, it might not be worth the bother then.
[12:10] <wgrant> It's already pretty good. Most copies check within half a second, except for _checkArchiveConflicts.
[12:10] <wgrant> So yeah, not worth spending time on that yet.
[12:10] <rvba> s/I/If
[12:11] <rvba> ok, so I guess the tests to make sure the number of queries does not increase is enough for now.
[12:11] <wgrant> Yup.
[12:11] <wgrant> That would be useful.
[13:47] <gmb> adeuring: Can you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/launchpad/bug-772609/+merge/60176 for me please?
[13:47] <adeuring> gmb: sure
[13:48] <gmb> Thanks
[13:48] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #243: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 4 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/243/
[13:58] <deryck> Morning, all.
[14:15] <jtv> hi deryck
[14:15] <deryck> hi jtv
[14:22] <adeuring> gmb: overall, nice work. but could you remove the "#import pdb; pdb.set_trace()" line in test_bugs_views.py?
[14:23] <SteveA> yay, code reviews :-)
[14:23] <adeuring> gmb: and you disabled the get_notified_subscribers() call in bugs/subscribers/bug.py
[14:24] <adeuring> gmb: there is an XXX from bac about the call which has no bug number
[14:24] <adeuring> gmb: also, I am not sure if we can really simply drop the call.
[14:26] <adeuring> deryck: could you please run these queries  on staging: https://pastebin.canonical.com/47200/ ?
[14:26] <deryck> adeuring, indeed I can.
[14:29] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #244: STILL FAILING in 40 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/244/
[14:41] <deryck> benji, I'm triaging bug 778323 as high as I assume it's related to y'all's current work.  Is story-better-bug-notification  still the best tag?
[14:41] <_mup_> Bug #778323: On the subscription page, the help popup button opens up a 404 page. <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/778323 >
[14:41] <benji> deryck: yep, that's the current tag
[14:42] <deryck> benji, cool.  done.  Thanks
[14:44] <deryck> I don't think anyone understood the implications of dropping ~launchpad-bugs mailing list.
[14:46] <jtv> danilo, henninge: I wonder if those links in the "untranslated" etc. numbers on the overview pages disappeared because of the Prague work.
[14:54] <danilos> jtv, I don't know, I don't have the time to investigate right now
[14:54] <jtv> Same here.  :(
[14:55] <danilos> jtv, I filed a bug so when I switch to maintenance I'll take a look
[14:55] <jtv> OK
[14:55] <danilos> jtv, it's tagged "regression", which makes it "Critical"
[14:56] <jtv> I guess it doesn't absolutely require a Rosetta veteran.
[14:56] <jtv> Hi Ursinha
[14:56] <danilos> jtv, indeed
[14:56] <jtv> I wonder why I'm suddenly being showered in bugmail.
[15:01] <deryck> Hi, gmb.  Could I get you to review my GCC credentials branch for me?  It's simple, but I want to make sure I haven't missed something I don't know about.
[15:01] <gmb> deryck: Sure thing. Diff me.
[15:02] <deryck> gmb, lp branch is:  https://code.launchpad.net/~deryck/launchpad/add-gcc-keys-schema-lazr-745794/+merge/60186
[15:02]  * gmb looks
[15:02] <gmb> Oo, complex!
[15:02] <deryck> heh
[15:03] <gmb> That looks fine.
[15:03] <deryck> gmb, and I did a matching lp-production-configs one first:  https://code.launchpad.net/~deryck/lp-production-configs/add-gcc-bugzilla-creds/+merge/59956
[15:03] <deryck> gmb, so I understand land the lp branch, nodowntime rollout, then the lp-production-configs one, yes?
[15:03] <gmb> deryck: I believe so. I haven't had to do one of these since before there were nodowntime rollouts.
[15:04] <gmb> But that sounds sane.
[15:04] <deryck> gmb, ok, cool.  yeah, this is my first config change believe it or not.
[15:04] <gmb> Ah, always fun.
[15:08] <wgrant> deryck: Land the branch, land the configs, nodowntime rollout.
[15:08] <wgrant> No need for a rollout in the middle.
[15:08] <deryck> wgrant, ah, ok.  thanks.
[15:09] <deryck> wgrant, and no need for any special rollout requirements, i.e. the usual nodowntime will cover everything I need?
[15:09] <wgrant> deryck: That's right.
[15:09] <deryck> wgrant, awesome sauce.  thanks, again.
[15:09] <wgrant> We grab the requested rev of stable and the latest lp-p-c rev.
[15:09] <deryck> gotcha
[15:34] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #41: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 5 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/41/
[15:36] <adeuring> gmb: did you see my questions about your mp?
[15:37] <gmb> adeuring: Oops, missed them. Let me look...
[15:37] <adeuring> bac: are you around?
[15:37] <gmb> Ahaha
[15:37] <gmb> Thanks for catchign that pdb.
[15:39] <gmb> Oh. I don't remember removing that...
[15:40] <adeuring> gmb: np. but can we reall drop the get_also_notified_subscribers() call?
[15:40] <gmb> Ah, I see. That's from bac's work and I've not spotted it...
[15:40] <gmb> adeuring: Hmm. Lemme check.
[15:41] <gmb> adeuring: I honestly don't know.
[15:41] <bigjools> adeuring: hi, I've got a small branch in the queue, no rush.  TIA :)
[15:41] <gmb> adeuring So, I'll put it back and run EC2 and see what happens.
[15:41] <adeuring> bigjools: I'll look
[15:41] <adeuring> gmb: ok, sounds good
[15:42] <gmb> Ta
[15:43] <jcsackett> sinzui: would you like to mumble this morning?
[15:51] <beuno> hello lp devs
[15:51] <beuno> I _love_ this new email management story
[15:51] <beuno> I get this:
[15:51] <beuno> Launchpad Bug Contacts subscription: (unnamed)You do not receive emails from this subscription
[15:51] <beuno> any idea what the (unnamed) bit is?  should I file a bug?
[15:52] <huwshimi> beuno Did you give the subscription a name?
[15:52] <huwshimi> beuno: Did you just create the subscription or was it an old one?
[15:52] <beuno> huwshimi, no, not even sure where (or why!) to do that
[15:52] <beuno> huwshimi, old
[15:52] <jcsackett> allenap: i've made changes to the branch you looked at yesterday, if you could take another look.
[15:53] <huwshimi> beuno: I don't know heaps about it, but I'm guessing you might be able to give it a name somwhere
[15:54] <beuno> huwshimi, why would I want to name something so efimeral?
[15:54] <huwshimi> beuno: Are you around somewhere and have a minute? I wouldn't mind looking at the UI of what you have.
[15:55] <wgrant> Anyone in ~launchpad can see the same thing at https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+subscriptions
[15:55] <beuno> huwshimi, I am! I'm in the canonical sumit room, and would love to meet you. I have another hour of sessions, but then I'm free.
[15:56] <deryck> beuno, if you name it, bug mail gets the name in headers and in the footer of emails, to help you filter on that name.
[15:56] <huwshimi> beuno: I'll try to catch you at some stage. Not sure what I'll be doing in an hour though
[15:57] <beuno> deryck, right, that makes a bit of sense
[15:57] <huwshimi> deryck: Does that mean someone needs to go back to the subscription and give it a name?
[15:57] <beuno> huwshimi, I'm here this and next week
[15:57] <huwshimi> beuno: ok, I'll be around until Wednesday
[15:59] <deryck> beuno, huwshimi -- you can edit the subscriptions off the target or the +subscriptions or +structural-subscriptions pages, I believe.
[15:59] <adeuring> bigjools: r=me
[15:59] <bigjools> adeuring: cheers
[16:00] <deryck> beuno, huwshimi -- should be able to name it from:  https://launchpad.net/launchpad for example
[16:00] <beuno> deryck, so maybe it needs a default name?
[16:01] <deryck> I may have some details wrong, though, since it's Yellow Squad working on this now :-)
[16:01] <deryck> beuno, yeah, probably some string concact of $target-$user-sub or some such.
[16:01] <deryck> (Unamed) seems not clear or useful
[16:01] <allenap> jcsackett: Already done :)
[16:02] <jcsackett> \o/ thanks, allenap!
[16:04] <danilos> beuno, there should still be old headers which one used to use for subscriptions filtering
[16:04] <deryck> beuno, can you file a bug?  I can triage it and assign to story tag.
[16:05] <danilos> beuno, fwiw, the bug mail you might have started getting could be due to a change in launchpad product configuration, and is unrelated to the beta fwiw
[16:05] <danilos> deryck, thanks for helping out with this :)
[16:07] <deryck> danilos, np. :-)  I don't mean to nosy my way into your work ;)
[16:07] <danilos> deryck, not at all, just go ahead, I am off now as well :)
[16:07] <deryck> ok cool :-)
[16:08] <danilos> deryck, and we appreciate all the help we can get :)
[16:08] <deryck> It's an awesome feature.  Many will love it.
[16:08] <danilos> as long as launchpadders don't confuse this configuration change with the feature :)
[16:09] <danilos> (i.e. ~launchpad losing the contact address)
[16:10] <beuno> deryck, I can
[16:11] <beuno> danilos, right, no, I get the same amount of email (I was subscribed to everything)
[16:11] <huwshimi> danilos: But this change should mean you can stop getting all that mail though right?
[16:11] <beuno> this was me taking advantage of muting some email  :)
[16:11] <danilos> huwshimi, right
[16:11] <beuno> deryck, I'll file the bug, I need the karma
[16:11] <danilos> beuno, I am sure you'll find a bunch of bugs to report :)
[16:12] <huwshimi> danilos: Do you know how I can mute all of this new mail?
[16:13] <deryck> I don't even see why we need ~launchpad-bugs.  Just unsubscribe it from the ~launchpad, no?
[16:14] <deryck> isn't that the account causing issues?  huwshimi ^^
[16:14] <huwshimi> deryck: I think it might be
[16:14] <wgrant> ~launchpad-bugs' subscription to /launchpad can be removed by a Launchpad admin. But it's not the main problem.
[16:14] <deryck> ah
[16:14] <wgrant> ~launchpad also gets vcs-imports spam, loggerhead question spam, probably launchpad-reviewers MP spam.
[16:14] <deryck> ah
[16:14] <wgrant> None of that is fixable.
[16:14] <deryck> and ~launchpad lost it's email address
[16:14] <deryck> I see
[16:15] <wgrant> We may have to readd the address, once everyone is pissed off enough to file critical bugs about all the unstoppable mail.
[16:15] <huwshimi> deryck: It's not just that. I'm getting heaps of mail from Loggerhead and stuff now too
[16:15] <wgrant> But until we have lots of bugs filed it would be silly to readd it.
[16:15] <wgrant> Because we'd never fix it properly.
[16:15] <deryck> yeah
[16:15] <wgrant> (see eg. the last 5 years of having a contact address)
[16:16] <deryck> we just shouldn't expand teams to individual emails.  why would anyone really want that ever?
[16:16] <deryck> could be easier to fix than file the bug ;)
[16:16] <wgrant> deryck: Then who gets the mail?
[16:17] <wgrant> eg. ~launchpad is an admin for some teams. Who gets the mail that somebody is trying to join?
[16:17] <danilos> huwshimi, you should be able to go to any of the bugs with emails, click on "Edit bug mail" and mute the team subscription
[16:17] <deryck> wgrant, if you don't set a contact for the team, no one.
[16:17] <wgrant> I think team subscriptions to any object are stupid and should be banned.
[16:17] <danilos> huwshimi, with something like "Don't send me email"
[16:17] <wgrant> But we use subscriptions for security too.
[16:17] <wgrant> So we can't do that.
[16:17] <deryck> create a security mailing list for the team that people optionally subscribe to.
[16:18] <deryck> this is how the rest of the world works, no?
[16:18] <huwshimi> danilos: Thanks
[16:18] <wgrant> This sounds a lot like working around an incomplete advanced subscriptions feature to me :)
[16:18] <deryck> maybe in one sense
[16:19] <deryck> but I think my point is that you want a security or team mailing list, not a team subscription.
[16:19] <danilos> wgrant, for security stuff, direct subscriptions are created for the security contact on all security bugs
[16:19] <deryck> that magically expands
[16:19] <huwshimi> danilos: What about stuff that comes from questions etc?
[16:19] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #245: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 5 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/245/
[16:19] <wgrant> deryck: Why?
[16:19] <danilos> huwshimi, can't help there, other than filtering
[16:20] <huwshimi> danilos: OK thanks :)
[16:20] <wgrant> deryck: Security email isn't special enough that it deserves a list. That's just the only way it can sensibly be done now, because LP is broken.
[16:20] <wgrant> Hmm, poolie's not here.
[16:20] <wgrant> We should unsubscribe loggerhead-team from loggerhead's questions.
[16:20] <wgrant> That will stop a lot of the immediate spam.
[16:21] <deryck> wgrant, maybe you're right.  I'm just being clear that the rest of the world uses a security mailing list, not team membership to manage security bugs.
[16:21] <deryck> and that we're conflating the two
[16:21]  * danilos -> really out
[16:21] <deryck> what happened now is that we have a team subscribed for many reasons, not to manage mail
[16:21] <deryck> and the conflation is the issue.
[16:21] <wgrant> Right.
[16:21] <wgrant> A lot of these reasons are obsolete.
[16:21] <deryck> right
[16:22] <wgrant> Ah, flacoste is readding the address now.
[16:22] <deryck> and that's all I mean.  I don't mean to overanalyze or suggest the one true way to fix it.  just pointing out the root issue.
[16:22] <wgrant> deryck: The root issue is that we need to separate permission and subscription, and we probably also want to extend the excellent new structural subscription stuff to cover everything.
[16:23] <flacoste> wgrant: yeah, PQM bot will receive all the email we are receiving
[16:23] <wgrant> flacoste: We should really fix that PQM bug.
[16:23] <flacoste> so it will be sending those kind of error message in a lot of case
[16:23] <deryck> wgrant, yes, agreed.
[16:23] <flacoste> wgrant: or we should fix launchpad spam :-)
[16:23] <flacoste> to be honest, i'm not sure what is the PQM bug in this case
[16:23] <flacoste> that it's a member of ~canonical
[16:23] <flacoste> actually
[16:23] <deryck> yeah, some things we really just should never send mail for
[16:24] <flacoste> i don't know why PQM should be a member ~canonical
[16:24] <flacoste> it's mainly for branch
[16:24] <flacoste> and we always subscribe it explicitely
[16:24] <flacoste> which is better
[16:24] <wgrant> flacoste: The PQM bug is that it crashes when it can't verify a signature.
[16:24] <wgrant> Rather than just ignoring the mail.
[16:25] <wgrant> Also it probably shouldn't be a member of ~launchpad, I guess, but it might need those privileges.
[16:25] <flacoste> well, even if it didn't oops
[16:25] <flacoste> it should send an email about the error
[16:25] <flacoste> it can be a legitimate user error
[16:25] <wgrant> Possibly.
[16:25] <wgrant> I guess having ~launchpad-pqm's email address set to PQM's email address is pretty pointless.
[16:25] <flacoste> also
[16:25] <wgrant> I can see no possible benefit of that.
[16:25] <flacoste> me neither
[16:26] <flacoste> but it's hard to set a LP profile to a sink hole
[16:26] <flacoste> address
[16:26] <wgrant> Yeah.
[16:26] <wgrant> We need robot profiles.
[16:26] <deryck> sinzui, ping
[16:52] <deryck> benji, are we making noise about +subscriptions or +structural-subscriptions as part of y'all's work?  or keeping that on the dl?
[16:53] <abentley> adeuring: Could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/daily-build-permissions/+merge/60207 ?
[16:53] <adeuring> abentley: sure
[16:53] <abentley> Thanks.
[16:54] <benji> deryck: I don't think they're secrets; both should be linked to from user-visible parts of the UI (those users who can see them because of the feature flag that is)
[16:55] <benji> adeuring: I have a small review for you when you have a minute: https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/launchpad/bug-777794/+merge/60209
[16:56] <adeuring> benji: sure, I'll look
[16:56] <benji> thanks
[16:56] <deryck> benji, ok, thanks.  Early on in that story there was talk of hiding them until they were ready, and I didn't want to assume they were ready. :-)
[16:57]  * deryck is doing IRC duties and wants to be prepared as people ask about new work
[17:01] <adeuring> benji: r=me
[17:01] <benji> thanks
[17:15] <adeuring> abentley: r=me, just one note: there is an "import re" in a method in test_sourcepackagerecipe.py. I think this import can happen at the top of the file
[17:29] <sinzui> deryck: I think all registry admins can hide bug and question comments. I do not think https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/156277 should be assigned to an admin
[17:29] <deryck> sinzui, ah, sorry.  from the web UI?  I didn't realize this.
[17:30] <deryck> sinzui, or using an api script?
[17:30] <sinzui> deryck:  https://dev.launchpad.net/MaintenanceRotationSchedule has link to dealing with spam and there is a script that you can run
[17:30] <deryck> sinzui, ok, I'll take a look.
[17:31] <deryck> I have such a low tolerance for administrivia.  I really suck at keeping up with all this.
[17:32] <sinzui> deryck: jcsackett is working on the UI to toggle comment visibility now. You may not ever run that scrip again after today
[17:33]  * bigjools is with deryck
[17:33] <deryck> nice
[17:34] <deryck> sinzui, and if I have a user spamming bugs with linkedin invites, do I deactive or suspend the account?
[17:34]  * deryck sucks at reading 45 wiki pages too :-P
[17:34] <sinzui> suspend and include the question URL in the comment so that we know why
[17:34] <deryck> gotchas
[17:38] <deryck> sinzui, why isn't hide-comments in the lp tree?
[17:38] <sinzui> ask gmb he wrote it
[17:38] <sinzui> deryck: I modified that script a week ago so that we could work with questions too
[17:39] <sinzui> As I said, jcsackett is adding the UI now
[17:39] <deryck> sinzui, is that the copy in the wiki?
[17:39] <deryck> ah true
[17:39] <sinzui> yes it is
[17:39] <deryck> so shall I wait until Monday to hide this comment then? ;)
[17:40] <sinzui> jcsackett: when do you estimate we can QA comment hiding in the UI
[17:41] <deryck> sinzui, i was just kidding around.  I've got the script running now.
[17:47] <deryck> feels so 2004 to have to moderate Launchpad
[17:47] <deryck> don't people automate this sort of thing these days ;)
[17:47]  * deryck is just kidding around
[17:50] <jcsackett> sinzui: Out to ec2 land now.
[17:51] <jcsackett> so I can qa sometime this weekend, or Monday depending.
[17:53] <sinzui> jcsackett: thanks, I was just confirming my commitment not to add the api script to the lp tree
[17:54]  * jcsackett nods 
[17:54] <jcsackett> There should be no need.
[18:06] <gmb> deryck, sinzui: No he didn't. That was intellectronica. At least I think it was. I could be lying.
[18:06] <sinzui> gmb: my apologies
[18:07] <gmb> sinzui: Don't apologise :) I just don't want people to get the impression that I know anything.
[18:07] <sinzui> yes. I know exactly how you feel. People keep asking me questions expecting me know the answer
[18:21] <sinzui> Help! I see that @operation_returns_collection_of errors if the method it decorates returns a Set. Can I make it like the Set, or do I need to change it to a list?
[18:22] <sinzui> I think there may be good reason the method returns a Set.
[18:44] <SteveA> hi, quick question. I couldn't find the answer on a cursory look at the launchpad dev wiki
[18:44] <SteveA> how long is a launchpad dev cycle?
[18:45] <EvilUrsinha> SteveA, it used to be about a month
[18:46] <SteveA> specifically, how long does a squad work on one area?
[18:46] <abentley> SteveA: Mostly, we release features when they are done: https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/ReleaseFeaturesWhenTheyAreDone
[18:46] <EvilUrsinha> SteveA, that's a bit different question, what abentley said
[18:46] <abentley> SteveA: as long as it takes to complete the feature.
[18:47] <SteveA> cool :-)
[18:47] <SteveA> for the most part (the modal average, say) how long does a squad work on a feature?
[18:47] <SteveA> or rather, on an area of the codebase
[18:47] <abentley> SteveA: We have two feature squads and two maintenance squads at a time.  When a feature squad finishes, they swap with a maintenance squad.
[18:48] <abentley> SteveA: I don't think we've got enough experience to answer this.  We've only been doing this since the last Epic.
[18:49] <sinzui> SteveA 4-13 months, but that we want to scope features into small units so that no feature is longer than a few months. We want teams to rotate to do maintenance more often.
[18:51] <SteveA> ok, I understand, I think. Thanks sinzui
[18:51] <SteveA> thanks abentley and EvilUrsinha too
[18:52] <EvilUrsinha> no problem :)
[18:52] <abentley> SteveA, np
[19:06] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #42: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/42/
[19:11] <deryck> benji, wouldn't the views I was asking about this morning count as a single view of subscriptions.  i.e. https://launchpad.net/~deryck/+subscriptions and https://launchpad.net/~deryck/+structural-subscriptions ?
[19:11] <deryck> well where single == two views ;)
[19:14] <benji> deryck: I think so!  I had forgotten that +structural-subscriptions works for a user; I thought there was only a list of directly subscribed bugs (i.e., ~user/+subscriptions)
[19:14] <deryck> benji, right.  jkakar might be interested in that  ^^ then
[19:15] <jkakar> Hiya benji, deryck. :)
[19:15]  * jkakar looks at +structural-subscriptions
[19:15] <benji> hmm, I can't find any links to those pages; I wonder why not
[19:16] <benji> it seems to me that there should be a link from the ~user page to those
[19:16] <deryck> benji, right.  that's why I asked this morning.
[19:16] <jkakar> benji, deryck: Uhm... my first impression is that I have no idea why I'm seeing what I'm seeing on this page. :)
[19:16] <deryck> benji, early on they needed a lot of polish
[19:16] <deryck> excatly! :-)
[19:16] <benji> the style looks messed up on +structural-subscriptions, those boxes should be full width
[19:17] <benji> oh, and the edit links take you to the old-style subscription edit pages
[19:17] <deryck> yeah, maybe they're not ready to talk about
[19:18] <benji> deryck and jkakar: ok, those are definatly not meant for public consumption; we need to either kill those or fix them posthaste
[19:18] <deryck> benji, right
[19:18] <benji> sorry for the confusion
[19:19] <deryck> np
[19:19] <jkakar> benji: Okay, cool.
[19:20] <deryck> but as a rough, unpolished sketch of what you're subscribed to, they're not bad
[19:20] <deryck> lp subscriptions easter egg
[19:20] <jkakar> benji: I think what I want to see is something like (1) a list of bug subscriptions I have (ie, things I explicitly subscribed to), (2) a list of projects that I get bug or merge proposal mail from because I'm in a team, and (3) a way to control each of those things.
[19:21] <benji> That's one of the downsides of deploying incomplete features, they are sometimes never finished.
[19:21] <jkakar> benji: Yeah.  Though, seeing something unfinished in production can also be a strong motivator to land further improvements.
[19:21] <jkakar> Anyway, I'm really glad you guys are pushing this work forward.  It's going to be so great to have control of these issues.
[19:22] <benji> yeah, that would be quite nice; you'll also probably want a list of all the non-subscription reasons you can get email; there are quite a few of those
[19:23] <jkakar> benji: Yeah, I probably do want that... particularly because I don't understand what they are off the top of my head... it would be nice to see it all in one place so I could complete my mental model of how LP notifies me of things.
[19:45] <jkakar> Uh oh, am getting repeated OOPSes trying to load: https://launchpad.net/fluidinfo/+milestone/11.05
[19:45] <jkakar> Like OOPS-1952AY485 for example.
[19:48] <sinzui> jkakar: You have discovered a bug! looks like the page dies trying to render the  structural subscription menu items
[19:49] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #43: STILL FAILING in 43 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/43/
[19:50] <jkakar> sinzui: Ah, oops. :)
[19:50] <sinzui> I am reporting the bug now
[19:53] <sinzui> jkakar: I can see the page as anonymous since we do not try to render the bad link
[19:53] <sinzui> I think the issue may just be project group milestons
[19:53] <jkakar> sinzui: But I guess you can't see any bugs because the project is private, right?
[19:53] <sinzui> I see 1
[19:54] <jkakar> sinzui: Interesting, I can load https://launchpad.net/storm/+milestone/0.19 without issue.
[19:54] <jkakar> sinzui: Ah, which one? :)
[19:54] <sinzui> bug 664548
[19:54] <_mup_> Bug #664548: Rearrange chairs on upper decks <story-brave-new-world> <Fluidinfo:In Progress by fluiddb-dev> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/664548 >
[19:54] <jkakar> sinzui: Ah, okay, that one is public indeed.  Thanks.
[20:51] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-db-devel build #246: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/246/
[20:59] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #44: STILL FAILING in 43 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/44/
[21:00]  * deryck reboots, brb
[21:43] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #45: STILL FAILING in 43 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/45/
[21:48] <lifeless> jkakar: I didn't realise fluidinfo used lp. Cool.
[22:29] <LPCIBot> Project windmill-devel build #46: STILL FAILING in 43 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/46/
[23:17] <lifeless> spammer on bug 411296
[23:17] <_mup_> Bug #411296: traceback if python has no ssl support: httplib module has no HTTPSConnection <https> <Bazaar:Confirmed for vila> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/411296 >
[23:22] <LPCIBot> Project db-devel build #523: FAILURE in 5 hr 13 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/523/