[01:00] lifeless: Yeah, I switched them over when I was working as an advisor. [01:00] lifeless: I haven't found anything better than Launchpad for supporting a process that involves code reviews (which is also something I introduced while I was an advisor). [01:01] lifeless: In general, I think LP is a great tool for teams. [01:01] lifeless: I think GitHub has a bit of an advantage for developer-to-developer collaboration, because it's UI is really focused on that problem. [01:06] Project windmill-db-devel build #247: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 8 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/247/ [01:55] jkakar: I'd like us to improve on d2d [01:55] not sure how [01:56] lifeless: Yeah, it's a tricky problem. I think the answer lies in UI. [01:56] Argh. [01:57] UnparsableDependencies again :( [01:57] lifeless: I think the pieces (bugs, reviews, etc.) are all in place... the Launchpad UI needs to make them more powerful. [01:57] lifeless: I think Launchpad is a bit hamstrung by Ubuntu. Ubuntu has all kinds of weird and particular requirements that no one else cares about, and that take a lot of energy to maintain... [01:58] s/maintain/ignore/ [01:58] *cough* Blueprints [01:58] lifeless: If we didn't have to deal with those problems we'd be able to focus our energy on problems that are more widely felt by users. [01:58] wgrant: Perhaps, yes. [01:58] But yes. [01:59] And I'm not discounting the power of Launchpad in terms of the Ubuntu project. [01:59] I think it's clear that Ubuntu could exist without Launchpad... [01:59] Nobody before has tried to combine a distribution and open source project and commercial project everything-tracker, I don't think. [01:59] And it sort of shows :/ [01:59] But it means that the folks that who use GitHub look at Launchpad and see it as not solving their problem. [01:59] wgrant: Yeah, it's a tricky problem, for sure. [02:00] wgrant: I think a big problem is that (and maybe I'm completely wrong here, I hope I am) there is no UI designer focused on Launchpad, focused on making it coherent, and with enough manpower behind them to make real change. [02:01] wgrant: Launchpad's UI has been getting steadily getting better, but it is also very confusing and could do with a lot of polish/love. [02:02] I sometimes think we're too driven by technological problems and not enough by user problems. I guess that's a reality of having a lot of technical debt, which I know Launchpad has and I also know that a tremendous effort has been put in to reducing it. [02:02] We are now actually in a position where we can reduce it, and we are doing so. [02:02] It does feel like we're getting to a point where we'll be seeing the benefits of that investment, though. [02:02] lifeless has saved the world, again. [02:02] wgrant: Yeah, that's my sense too. [02:03] wgrant: It's a tricky problem and I think the team has done an excellent job in tackling it head on. [02:03] That said, systems like GitHub, which I guess don't have that same problem, seem to be moving forward quickly. [02:03] GitHub doesn't have massive tech debt and design flaws from 2004 :( [02:04] In Fluidinfo, for example, we use Launchpad but we're talking about doing some interesting things and I see people saying, "In order for this to work we'd have to ditch Launchpad... because the crowds are at GitHub." [02:04] wgrant: Yep. [02:04] They also do a lot less. [02:04] Yep. [02:04] But they do most of it well, or at least shinily. [02:04] But also, Launchpad does much more than most people care about. [02:04] And the things that most people care about, it doesn't do amazingly well. [02:05] I still think Launchpad is the best collaboration tool for teams... but I don't feel confident saying that for individuals. [02:05] It's tricky business having a large and varied audience to cater to. [02:06] Okay, bedtime here. Thanks for being awesome, folks. :) [02:23] Project windmill-devel build #47: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-devel/47/ [04:34] Yippie, build fixed! [04:34] Project db-devel build #524: FIXED in 5 hr 12 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/524/ [05:20] Project windmill-db-devel build #248: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/248/ === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [09:36] Project windmill-db-devel build #249: STILL FAILING in 1 hr 7 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/windmill-db-devel/249/ [09:47] Project db-devel build #525: FAILURE in 5 hr 13 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/525/ [10:50] lifeless, hi? [11:11] is there a global acl on dev.l.n? [11:11] skaet doesn't seem able to edit anything === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [14:59] Yippie, build fixed! [14:59] Project db-devel build #526: FIXED in 5 hr 11 min: https://lpci.wedontsleep.org/job/db-devel/526/ [16:17] poolie: on https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/feature-install-cleanup/+merge/60279, should you be using u'on' rather than 'on'? [16:17] * jml doesn't know [16:17] but the old code did. [16:39] poolie: on https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/feature-install-cleanup/+merge/60279, should you be using u'on' rather than 'on'? [16:43] hi jml [16:43] good question [16:44] the old code did. I don't really know the answer myself. [16:44] the names and values are unicode [16:44] the code using it would have to be being unusually pedantic to notice, but it's possible [16:44] i'll fix it [16:57] poolie: thanks. [16:57] poolie: can you land branches, or should I land it for you? [16:58] i can! [16:58] it took a few attempts but i'm pretty sure it will work now [16:58] poolie: sweet. [17:03] indeed === Ursinha is now known as Guest21520 [17:06] thanks for the speedy review === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [21:11] poolie: storm and pythons postgresql driver are unusually pedantic [21:12] hi [21:12] it probably wouldn't be comparing that string, and if the test passes i guess it's not rejecting it from the update [21:12] statement [21:12] but i changed it anyhow === lifeless_ is now known as lifeless [21:16] my attempt to land was blocked by https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/750274 [21:16] <_mup_> Bug #750274: librarian.txt fails sometimes

< https://launchpad.net/bugs/750274 > [21:16] poolie: I haven't looked at the diff; was just letting you know [21:16] hopefully it will pass on a second attempt [21:16] thansk [21:17] jml: hi [21:17] jml: are we going to try to complete that catchup before the ensemble call; I think it has bearing on how to try to do it [21:18] jml: e.g. can we do it on monday morning [21:18] poolie: I'm having trouble finding skaet online ; if she would like to chat she can ping me anytime [21:19] poolie: also yes there is an acl on help.lp.net; spammers love that site [21:20] poolie: do you know here lp username ? [21:20] skaet [21:20] but perhaps oh i don't know [21:20] ~canonical could be added or something? [21:21] I don't know the history [21:21] I'll add her now [21:21] and probably talk to flacoste / mrevell when I see them about ~canonical [22:49] wgrant: how big is the supportted archive, do you know?