[05:32]  * nlsthzn waves
[08:04] <Kilos> morning superfly  and others
[08:05] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee on
[08:05]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[08:05] <Kilos> Maaz, coffee for all
[08:05] <Maaz> Sure thing, Kilos. Hey guys, bring your own mugs! I'm tired of doing all the dishes on my own.
[08:09] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[08:09] <Kilos> Maaz, thank you
[08:09] <Maaz> Kilos: Sure
[11:39] <queery> maaz, whats for lunch
[11:39] <Maaz> queery: *blink*
[11:39] <queery> maaz, what is for lunch
[11:39] <Maaz> queery: A bowl of miso soup and noodles
[11:40] <queery> rerig
[11:40] <queery> is that where it ended yesterday
[11:57] <cocooncrash> Maaz: whats for lunch is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe
[11:57] <Maaz> cocooncrash: One learns a new thing every day
[12:06] <queery> Maaz, whats for lunch
[12:06] <Maaz> queery: whats for lunch is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe
[12:07] <queery> haha
[12:07] <queery> ok
[12:07] <queery> maaz, what's for lunch
[12:07] <Maaz> queery: Coffee should be enough...
[12:07] <queery> maaz coffee on
[12:07]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[12:11] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for queery!
[14:05]  * nlsthzn waves
[14:07] <superfly> hi nlsthzn
[14:07] <nlsthzn> sup superfly 
[14:13] <kbmonkey> hi there all *waves*
[14:18] <nlsthzn> alo kbmonkey 
[14:32] <superfly> hi kbmonkey
[15:21] <marcog> anyone here doing google code jam?
[15:29] <magellanic> not me. you?
[15:29] <marcog> yep, done all 3
[15:29] <marcog> *4
[15:30] <magellanic> cool. when did it start
[15:30] <marcog> 1am
[15:30] <marcog> it's going on for 24 hours
[15:30] <marcog> you only need 1 max 2 hours to qualify
[15:30] <marcog> problems are fun
[15:31] <marcog> http://code.google.com/codejam/
[15:44] <magellanic> sounds cool, best of luck
[20:01] <Kilos-> hellooooooo
[20:01] <Kilos-> Maaz, hiya
[20:01] <Maaz> howzit
[20:01] <Kilos-> zit ok
[20:02] <Kilos-> Maaz, botsnack
[20:02] <Maaz> *crunch*
[20:04] <Kilos-> night all of ya. me goes dood oo
[21:38] <kbmonkey> hi Symmetria hows it goin
[21:42] <superfly> you still up kbmonkey
[21:44] <kbmonkey> yes superfly 
[21:45] <superfly> kbmonkey: were you one of the many trying to learn Python?
[21:45] <kbmonkey> I am :)
[21:45] <superfly> how's it going?
[21:46] <kbmonkey> in fact I've been slacking after I finished the 7dRL
[21:46] <kbmonkey> need to jump back in
[21:47] <kbmonkey> I need a tiny project to focus on, ye I think that will help
[21:48] <superfly> kbmonkey: that might... also following a book or something also helps
[21:53] <magellanic> the tutorial on the official site is not too bad?
[21:53] <kbmonkey> magellanic, that one is good, dive into python also a very well written book
[21:56] <superfly> magellanic: the best one I've seen is called A Byte of Python
[21:57] <kbmonkey> thanks superfly I'll look it up :)
[21:57] <magellanic> okay. haven't read any. I was following the on site tutorial a long time ago, can't remember how far I got :p
[21:57] <superfly> kbmonkey: www.byteofpython.info
[21:57] <magellanic> now I just reference it in bits and pieces when writing small scripts here or there
[21:58] <superfly> it's a free eBook - I recommend starting with the Python 2.x version, since that's the version that is currently used in production
[21:58] <superfly> there are very few places using Python 3 in production
[21:59] <kbmonkey> agreed, I'm sticking to 2.x for now
[22:00] <magellanic> superfly: you do python full time?
[22:00]  * DraZoro is also sticking to version 2.x for the time being 
[22:01] <superfly> magellanic: indeed
[22:01] <superfly> hi DraZoro
[22:01] <DraZoro> Hi superfly I see you are talking python :)
[22:02] <superfly> DraZoro: when am I not?
[22:02] <superfly> ;-)
[22:02]  * kbmonkey would get beaten to a pulp if he said what he codes in full time :p
[22:02] <superfly> kbmonkey: lemme guess, VB?
[22:02] <kbmonkey> hahaha! yes superfly.
[22:02]  * magellanic beats kbmonkey to a pulp
[22:02] <superfly> the only thing worse than VB is.... actually, there isn't anything worse
[22:02] <kbmonkey> of all the languages I did, nogal
[22:03] <kbmonkey> no there isn't. wait, maybe lolspeak, but its not a production language ^^
[22:03] <magellanic> legacy apps?
[22:03] <magellanic> hm, competition to VB, perhaps asp?
[22:04] <kbmonkey> well strictly its .net so I do C# as well its all interpreted but the syntax still vb
[22:04] <superfly> kbmonkey: C# is actually a nice language, well, when I last played with it, which was about 7 years ago
[22:05] <superfly> it's almost as nice as Python
[22:05] <superfly> it's a real shame C# is tied to .NET and Microsoft
[22:06] <kbmonkey> aaalmost. not quite. the framework overhead is too fat. and I don't have any Win machines at home :p
[22:06] <magellanic> how does it compare to java, never used it, busy learning java
[22:06] <superfly> kbmonkey: yeah, hence why I said that it's a pity it is tied to .NET
[22:06]  * kbmonkey cringes from bad Java experiences years ago]
[22:06] <magellanic> kbmonkey: no win at home, +1 ;)
[22:06] <superfly> magellanic: it's basically Borland's Delphi written to look like Java
[22:07] <kbmonkey> and hence I am not even interested in the Mono framework. never. respect to them, but I'd rather go native
[22:07] <superfly> so you could mistake it for Java, but I can clearly see that the guy who created C# was the same guy who created Delphi
[22:07] <magellanic> oh, never seen delphi, or used it either
[22:08] <superfly> personally, I'd rather go with either C++/Qt4 or Python
[22:08] <DraZoro> I use 
[22:08] <kbmonkey> and Delphi is the descendant of.. Pascal :D
[22:08] <DraZoro> I use Delphi in my first level course at UNISA ...
[22:08] <kbmonkey> I did some Delphi
[22:08] <magellanic> we started out with pascal
[22:08]  * superfly was employed as a delphi developer at a previous employer
[22:08] <kbmonkey> Heck I did some ASM as well. talk about no intellisense or IDE's ;p
[22:09] <superfly> kbmonkey: did you get as far as writing a mini TUI system in ASM?
[22:10]  * superfly was part of a class of geeks that took the optional Assembler class in second year
[22:10] <kbmonkey> nope, I mainly used it for speeding up drawing loops writing demos and silly games
[22:11] <DraZoro> Planing to study asymptote after exams and php 
[22:12] <kbmonkey> but now... I only have eyes for Python
[22:13] <kbmonkey> maybe a silly arcade game, yes that might be fun to make :)
[22:13] <Mitchelli> hi all :)
[22:13] <kbmonkey> hi Mitchelli 
[22:14] <Mitchelli> so any Durbanites?
[22:14] <magellanic> yes, Mitchelli. :p
[22:14] <kbmonkey> here
[22:14] <Mitchelli> LOL :$
[22:14] <DraZoro> Hi Mitchelli 
[22:15] <Mitchelli> hmm so it a saturday night and here we sit on IRC. :) i love my life ever so much
[22:16] <kbmonkey> recovering from a fever :/
[22:16]  * superfly and his family is sick
[22:16] <superfly> the wife is already in bed, but my chest is so tight I can't sleep
[22:16] <Mitchelli> aww im sorry. If it makes u feel better i just had food poisoning
[22:16] <magellanic> python chat == no better way to spend a Sat night. :p
[22:16] <Mitchelli> and i have to go into surgery next week
[22:16] <superfly> Mitchelli: it doesn't, but thanks for trying :-P
[22:16]  * DraZoro wish superfly and his family to get better. 
[22:17] <superfly> thanks DraZoro... it's been a lousy 2 weeks of leave, being sick the whole time
[22:17] <superfly> magellanic: agreed :-D
[22:17]  * kbmonkey dislikes hospitals 
[22:17] <Mitchelli> :( i wana install ubuntu on my mac :'(
[22:17] <kbmonkey> best of luck with that Mitchelli 
[22:17] <magellanic> haha, why?
[22:17] <superfly> Mitchelli: so why don't you?
[22:18] <Mitchelli> i duno if it will work lol
[22:18]  * DraZoro has not visited a doctor or clinic or hospital for quite some time.
[22:18] <superfly> Mitchelli: have you got an Intel or PPC based Mac?
[22:18] <Mitchelli> intel
[22:18] <magellanic> Mitchelli: boot a livecd
[22:18] <superfly> Mitchelli: pop your desktop cd in and reboot. it'll work
[22:18]  * DraZoro is busy trying to create his wiki page on ubuntu
[22:18] <superfly> the only pain is if you have a mac keyboard and a 1 button mouse
[22:19] <superfly> you'll need to get those configured properly
[22:19] <superfly> otherwise Ubuntu thinks you have a normal "Windows" keyboard
[22:19] <Mitchelli> but your sure everything will work? really dont wana mess my laptop up. cost me an arm :(.
[22:19] <kbmonkey> try it out Mitchelli :)
[22:20] <kbmonkey> Im sure somebody out there had done this
[22:20] <DraZoro> I think the manufacturers should start to replace the Windows symbol on the keyboards with the ubuntu symbol ...Especially after the launch of Natty :)
[22:20] <Mitchelli> what are your thoughts on unity?
[22:20] <superfly> Mitchelli: at one of the previous places I worked at I toyed with the idea of dualbooting my mac mini, though I never got round to it :-(
[22:21] <magellanic> DraZoro: why would they do that, win is still like 90% of desktops..
[22:21] <DraZoro> Mitchelli: Unity is amazing 
[22:21] <magellanic> I don't like unity, will use xubuntu from 11.04 :/
[22:21] <superfly> Mitchelli: I know Ubuntu by itself will definitely work, I dunno if you can dual boot though
[22:21] <DraZoro> Very flexible 
[22:21]  * superfly thinks that KDE 4.6 is the best release of KDE yet
[22:22] <kbmonkey> Mitchelli, google your mac model and installing ubuntu on it
[22:22] <Mitchelli> yeh i think it is a step in the right direction for ubuntu. havent tried KDE in a while though so i may try it out
[22:22] <Mitchelli> thanks monkey :)
[22:22] <kbmonkey> Its worrying as some Macs include hardware locks that only allow their OS. Dunno which Macs tho
[22:22] <DraZoro> magellanic : It is about time they removed it ....
[22:22] <superfly> kbmonkey: I've never heard of that, are you sure?
[22:23] <Mitchelli> its ok, i will keep my virtual box for a while
[22:23] <superfly> Mitchelli: don't you have your installation DVD anyways? if the Ubuntu install fails, you should be able to restore it to OS X
[22:24] <kbmonkey> no I'm not 100% certain, just hearsay
[22:24] <magellanic> yep, worst case you have software problems. the expensive hardware will be fine :D
[22:24] <Mitchelli> yeh, i still do. will try it out tomorrow. just wana finish my program before i lose it
[22:24] <kbmonkey> perhaps the pre-Intel based Macs
[22:25] <superfly> kbmonkey: no, those were just using PPC processors, which you could still run Linux on :-)
[22:26] <Mitchelli> omg, i havent watch TV in so long since i started working. wtf happened to the anime channel on dstv
[22:27] <magellanic> they stopped the ppc mac completely?
[22:29] <Mitchelli> i wonder wat 11.10 has install for us :)
[22:30] <magellanic> more free stuff?
[22:30] <Mitchelli> lololol
[22:30] <magellanic> ;D
[22:30] <Mitchelli> sigh i need to get outa durban
[22:30] <magellanic> why?
[22:31] <Mitchelli> it too hot, and people drive terribly
[22:31] <Mitchelli> i dont even have a tan :'(
[22:32] <magellanic> heh
[22:33] <Mitchelli> it is horrible, everytime i get into my car it a nightmare!
[22:33] <superfly> magellanic: yep, they stopped with the PPC Macs a few years ago
[22:34] <magellanic> oh okay. mac noob here.
[22:35] <kbmonkey> esp in the evenings, it's like everyone is on a mission on the roads.
[22:35] <superfly> magellanic: no worries, you at least seem to know more about Macs than the average Windows user ;-)
[22:35] <Mitchelli> its fine, i had my mac for 3 months now and it making me more stupid buy the day
[22:35] <Mitchelli> *by. See i am even forgetting how to spell
[22:35]  * superfly can see, Mitchelli's spelling is not that great ;-)
[22:36] <magellanic> road situation is like that in all our major cities, unfortunately
[22:36] <superfly> Even in Cape Town!
[22:37] <superfly> (OK, OK, you have to look for it, but it *is* there!)
[22:37] <Mitchelli> but at least im getting my degree done. When i had my Ubuntu laptop last year i didnt get any work done coz it was just to fun fiddling around with it
[22:37] <Mitchelli> cape town is nice, but expensive :(
[22:37] <magellanic> superfly: have to look for it? I hear the main highway and airport routes are commonly clogged?
[22:38] <magellanic> highways*
[22:38] <Mitchelli> in Durban some people turn the pavements into extra roads :(
[22:38] <superfly> magellanic: clogged, yes, but they're all driving at 2km/h
[22:38] <superfly> they're not like Durban drivers
[22:38] <magellanic> heh okay
[22:39] <superfly> except for the taxi drivers
[22:39] <magellanic> superfly: where in CT are you?
[22:39] <Mitchelli> i was walking on broadway the other day to get lunch and a taxi hoots at me to get off the pavement
[22:39] <superfly> and even the Durbanites are scared of the taxi drivers
[22:39] <magellanic> Mitchelli: lol
[22:39] <superfly> magellanic: living or working?
[22:39] <magellanic> superfly: living :)
[22:40] <superfly> Muizenberg, a stone's throw from the beach :-D
[22:40] <superfly> (literally)
[22:40] <Mitchelli> sounds like a german suburb
[22:40] <superfly> if I threw it hard enough...
[22:41] <kbmonkey> ... with a kettie
[22:41] <superfly> Mitchelli: erm, actually for many years it was a British outpost
[22:41] <superfly> kbmonkey: no, no need for a kettie
[22:41] <Mitchelli> :( sad, and im british :'(
[22:41] <superfly> Mitchelli: well, you come from Durban, so you're either british or indian ;-)
[22:41] <Mitchelli> rofl
[22:41] <kbmonkey> bwhahaha!
[22:42] <magellanic> heh
[22:42] <Mitchelli> im british but got an afrikaans surname :(
[22:42] <magellanic> superfly: cool, you  always been in CT? I'm looking in CT so considering moving
[22:43] <superfly> magellanic: no, been around and about
[22:43] <magellanic> okay
[22:44] <Mitchelli> which is better for IT jobs? CT or JHB? the durban chamber of commerce president said a week or 2 ago that durban residents are lazy
[22:44] <magellanic> haha :p
[22:45] <kbmonkey> we are? wow, okay well my response is that we... meh I'm over it.
[22:45] <superfly> bwahaha
[22:45] <Mitchelli> yeh i was shocked. i get up at 4 and leave work at 9 at night 
[22:46] <magellanic> sheesh
[22:46] <magellanic> I believe indians work one to the bone :p
[22:47] <Mitchelli> hehe, ay but im 21 and my work is everything to me, sad really
[22:48] <magellanic> same with me, not much interest in anything else really
[22:49] <Mitchelli> i just finished my degree in IT now im gana study business.
[22:49] <Mitchelli> cant wait lol
[22:49] <superfly> meh. business.
[22:50] <magellanic> IT management pays a lot from what I've seen
[22:50] <superfly> yeah, and you get to be involved in politics that makes the ANC YL look tame
[22:50] <kbmonkey> after 8 years of solid work I am so keen to do work I enjoy. fulfilment > monies at this stage :]
[22:50] <Mitchelli> yeh i though IT and Business sort of go hand in hand. My only other options were Psycology and Law. but who ever heard of an IT and Psycologost specialist? "So, how does your computer make you feel?"
[22:51] <magellanic> heh
[22:51] <magellanic> kbmonkey: agree largely :)
[22:51] <magellanic> kbmonkey: what do you enjoy though
[22:51]  * kbmonkey enjoys beer
[22:52] <superfly> there's a saying that says, "Do a job you enjoy, and you'll never have to work a day of your life."
[22:52] <magellanic> hehe
[22:52] <Mitchelli> omg, that is so true superfly
[22:52] <magellanic> environment also matters, no point doing what you like, at a place you hate :p
[22:53] <Mitchelli> i wana quit my job now and do something i enjoy. and i will never have to do any work ever. Its called polotics
[22:53] <kbmonkey> strangely I _did_ enjoy my job for a long time. Then it changed. amazing what bureaucracy and management can do the fun
[22:53] <Mitchelli> politics sorry
[22:53] <superfly> If you get up in the morning and think, "oh no, I don't want to go to work today" you need to get a new job
[22:53] <magellanic> superfly: yep..
[22:54] <kbmonkey> I want to work in a Linux based environment. Wont find many in Durbs tho
[22:54] <Mitchelli> hmmmm, very thought provoking. maybe i should leave my lecturing job. Never liked it in the first place
[22:54] <kbmonkey> ..or work for ourselves. hmmm.
[22:54] <superfly> Don't be a fool about it, obviously, but those are some thoughts to take into account.
[22:54] <Mitchelli> but ima leave next month after my bonus comes :D
[22:55] <magellanic> kbmonkey: ISP's and such in durbs perhaps?
[22:56]  * superfly gets to code in Python, on a Linux Desktop, for Linux Servers, in a fairly developer-friendly atmosphere
[22:57] <Mitchelli> i cant imagine myself writing programs everyday, even though thats what i studied
[22:58] <kbmonkey> I can only imagine writing programs every day, and I never even studied :)
[22:58] <Mitchelli> lol,
[22:58] <superfly> Mitchelli: you know what they say, "those who can, do, those who can't, teach"
[22:58] <kbmonkey> <3 it
[22:58] <superfly> :-P
[22:58] <Mitchelli> thats why im a lecturer. lol
[22:58] <magellanic> Mitchelli: as for CT vs jhb, can't say, CT is rising really fast for IT
[22:59] <Mitchelli> thanks magellanic. 
[22:59] <superfly> if you're willing to stoop low enough, there are plenty PHP jods around
[22:59] <superfly> *jobs
[22:59] <superfly> :-P
[22:59] <magellanic> lol
[22:59] <superfly> magellanic: how's your Python?
[23:00] <Mitchelli> why is php stooping low?
[23:00] <magellanic> superfly: workable :p
[23:00] <magellanic> Mitchelli: it can get messy and depressing, especially if you get handed over someones large mess to maintain :P
[23:01] <magellanic> that's what I think :?
[23:01] <Mitchelli> ooo i see what you mean. i dont really know php anyways. i know: Java, C#, VB.NET, JSP, ASP.NET, MYSQL and MSSQL.
[23:01] <kbmonkey> php is tricky to debug sometimes
[23:01] <superfly> Mitchelli: you sound like an IT recruiter playing buzzword bingo
[23:01] <Mitchelli> lol
[23:02] <kbmonkey> I did some work on a SA bank internal system, php. talk about spaghetti.
[23:02] <superfly> PHP as a language is braindead and it's implementation is often inconsistent and flawed
[23:02] <magellanic> ouch, why so though?
[23:02] <superfly> magellanic: maybe you should come for an interview
[23:02] <kbmonkey> are you CT based superfly ?
[23:02] <superfly> magellanic: there are some good resources on the net ;-)
[23:02] <superfly> kbmonkey: yes
[23:03] <kbmonkey> If I can get all my ducks lined I want to make the jump to there
[23:03] <magellanic> superfly: are they looking, I'd consider, beside python is quick to pick up :)
[23:03] <Mitchelli> whats sad is one can teach themselves any language. but employees always want to see paper
[23:04] <superfly> Mitchelli: fortunately the company I work for is only really interested in competant developers... they'll teach you what you need to know
[23:04] <Mitchelli> omg, id love to work there
[23:05] <magellanic> Mitchelli: I find keeping snippets of programs/scripts written can help, when offered in reviews and such
[23:05] <Mitchelli> the problem i have is. When i start on a particular development problem i get really into it and i program it. but once i figure out the entire system and i know i can do it, i then lose interest because i have proven to myself i can do it. and it irritates me
[23:08] <magellanic> so examples of prior work, where you are able to keep them
[23:09] <Mitchelli> o so you mean like a portfolio? thats a good idea
[23:09] <magellanic> kind of, to be able to say, I've done this language, here are some stuffs I wrote..
[23:09] <Mitchelli> but some companies wont even phone you for an interview if you dont have a certain langauge on your certificate
[23:10] <superfly> Mitchelli: generally those are the ones you don't want to work for either
[23:10] <Mitchelli> lol, fair point there
[23:11] <magellanic> agree with superfly 
[23:12] <Mitchelli> how much does a junoir programmer roughly get paid
[23:13] <kbmonkey> who reads thedailywtf.com? love it :)
[23:13] <Mitchelli> i do now! lol
[23:14] <magellanic> Mitchelli: that might even be language dependent if I'm not mistaken
[23:14] <kbmonkey> some stories there about 'those companies' you should not work for he he
[23:18] <superfly> kbmonkey: really funny, but did you ever notice something? almost all those companies use, deploy and write Microsoft software
[23:19] <kbmonkey> For sure!
[23:26] <DraZoro> Bye Guys and Morning ...
[23:26] <superfly> bye DraZoro
[23:27] <DraZoro> superfly : Don't forget it is mothers day tomorrow :)
[23:27] <DraZoro> I hope I am right 
[23:27] <Mitchelli> mothers day today 
[23:27] <DraZoro> Today 
[23:27] <superfly> DraZoro: yep, I know... I have the gift already bought, and hidden in the house
[23:28] <DraZoro> Thanks guys ..
[23:28] <magellanic> I'm off too, night folks
[23:28] <DraZoro> Night magellanic 
[23:28] <Mitchelli> night night magellanic
[23:29] <kbmonkey> nite :)