[01:46] mdke: ping [01:46] DarkwingDuck: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back) [01:47] mdke: I'm trying to learn the process of building oneiric as a new branch for kubuntu-docs and what all I need to do in LP for that. If you have it written down or, there is a wiki somewhere explaining the process I would like to learn to do this. thanks [02:36] mdke: nevermind, I got it for kubuntu-docs [05:33] hey DarkwingDuck :D [05:33] haven't talked to you in a while [06:05] hello Madpilot [06:05] hi Captainkrtek [06:06] do you happen to know the process for a mirror to be reviewed? [06:06] an Ubuntu mirror [06:07] I don't, I'm afraid. [06:07] I'm so horribly out of date on docteam procedures it's tragic [06:07] you just register it and wait to get approved [06:07] okay, asked in #ubuntu-mirrors but it'd dead over there [06:07] you can bug the mirror mailing list if you like [06:07] just was wondering [06:07] nah Ill wait [06:07] :) [06:08] yeah the chat channel isn't likely to be helpful [06:08] give my server a few days to relax before the onslaught ;) [06:08] did you register it on launchpad? [06:09] yup [06:09] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/slashdev.org === Captainkrtek is now known as Krtek|Busy [09:19] DarkwingDuck: it's normally very straightforward, just bzr branch natty; bzr push lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/kubuntu-docs/oneiric [09:20] mdke: Yup, I got it. [09:20] :) [09:20] I wanted to take one less thing off your hands each release cycle [10:26] DarkwingDuck: that's appreciated, thanks :) [10:26] DarkwingDuck: I guess that kubuntu-docs should also move translation to the upstream project as ubuntu-docs has done. If you agree I'll take care of that [16:27] hello, I was wondering if someone could remove the IP address 85.190.27.2 at https://help.ubuntu.com/10.10/internet/C/troubleshooting-wireless.html, section two from "check DNS". I don't know how it got there ;-) [16:35] max___, what is that IP? [16:35] that's my private server [16:36] I don't know why it was put on this site [16:36] nice - is that documentation you wrote? [16:36] if not it was probably put there before you had the IP [16:36] I doubt that [16:36] I "own" 85.190.27.0/24 since 2004 [16:37] hmm interesting [16:37] no, i didnt write it, i'm not affiliated with ubuntu [16:38] alrigtht I'll put in a bug report to have it changed to something else, it could take awhile before it makes it to the website though [16:42] ok max___ , i filed the report here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/779531 [16:42] Launchpad bug 779531 in ubuntu-docs "Please use a different IP in Wireless troubleshooting section" [Undecided,New] [16:42] you can subscribe to it if you want to track its progress [16:45] thank you! [16:46] max___, is it a problem for you when people ping your server? [16:47] well actually not, but i don't think that especially my server is a good target to diagnose if you have a working internet connection [16:47] agreed, thanks for letting us know [16:48] ie., i can not guarantee that the server is always available and responsive to ICMP requests [16:48] no problem [17:11] evening all [17:11] hey mdke [17:12] mdke, i'm looking at bug 47504 right now [17:13] Launchpad bug 47504 in ubuntu-docs "Gender conventions notice in documents" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47504 [17:13] I don't see how this is really relevant to us, I would think that anybody who speaks a language fluently would know how to interpret gender usage on a page [17:14] I have never really been sure about that bug [17:14] to my knowledge, it's typically a standard way of writing o use a particular gender in languages that have it [17:14] shouldnt need any kind of notice [17:17] anyway, i think it should be closed [17:18] i'm also looking at some other bugs, like bug 478097 - i think this belongs in the docbook-xsl package, not ubuntu-docs [17:18] Launchpad bug 478097 in ubuntu-docs "help.ubuntu.com claims to be XHTML 1.0 Transitional but is not" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/478097 [17:18] I see plenty of books in English which have such a gender notice; but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should adopt it, and I think that it is cumbersome for one page help topics [17:19] it doesn't seem to have been adopted upstream [17:21] I would say that this is something that should be taken up with the developers of the markup languages or help viewers [17:21] I think we can close that first one as Won't Fix then, there is little pointin tracking a bug we aren't going to do anything with [17:21] I'll do it [17:21] ok [17:21] happy to take the stick for that :) [17:22] i was looking at the upstream docbook-xsl bugs yesterday, there were a number of reports relating to extra markup in the html, and bad validation of html [17:22] a lot of them had been closed though [17:23] we could open a new one upstream though [17:24] Rocket2DMn: that sounds sensible to me [17:24] hey Gwaihir [17:24] hey mdke! [17:24] alright mdke , i'll move it to docbook-xsl later and open a new report upstream [17:24] Rocket2DMn: thanks [17:25] Gwaihir: still in italia? [17:25] mdke, yes, leaving next thursday :-) [17:25] looking forward to it... really excited :-) [17:26] congratulations on the new opportunity [17:26] mdke, we said earlier that we were going to close bug 734958. the report said that he thinks it may be useful to open it from translations, but i dont think its really worth the effort to translate since the document is not supported anymore. Do you still want to close it, or would you liketo open it from translations in Lucid? [17:26] Launchpad bug 734958 in ubuntu-docs "switching not translatable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/734958 [17:27] mdke, thanks :-) [17:31] if we want to open it for translation i'm fine with that, but we should at least make our final decision on if we will [17:31] Rocket2DMn: I don't think so myself. I've closed it [17:32] ok, thanks [17:33] who has permissions now to approve/reject release nominations? [17:33] mdke, i think you have the ability to accept or reject the nomination [17:33] I seem to be able to do it, but I thought that it was by virtue of being in ~ubuntu-drivers. But I'm not in that now, and I can still do it [17:33] yeah, I do, but I don't know why [17:34] even if you accept the nomination, you can still close it afterward [17:34] i never really liked the idea of "nominating" a bug, i think anybody in bugcontrol should be able to open a task against a release [17:34] perhaps it is by virtue of being in bugcontrol [17:34] but you can't do it? [17:34] no, i can only nominate [17:35] we hvae some noimations here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+nominations?field.searchtext=ubuntu-docs [17:35] will look. [17:36] but I'm puzzled as to why I can do it and you not [17:37] interesting, I can only accept the ones in ubuntu-docs [17:37] must be upload rights then [17:37] that is interesting [17:37] so on that list I can only approve 3 of them [17:37] well at least we have somebody who can do it :) [17:38] btw i think bug 687995 was fixed when you pushed natty docs to the website, i'm able to get official docs in search now (e.g. search for "empathy") [17:38] Launchpad bug 687995 in ubuntu-docs "search.html is obsolete?" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687995 [17:39] yes, i fixed that everywhere [17:39] revision 59 [17:39] lol that's a great one-liner. you're a beast mdke [17:41] was just a sed command [17:42] it would be nice to get control of that google search [17:43] but I think that there may be something sensitive about it that requires a Canonical employee (i.e. Dustin) [17:43] i think anybody can setup search stuff like that, but it's probably tied to an administrative account at canonical [17:44] it looks like the same idea as just doing a "site:help.ubuntu.com mytexthere" query in google [17:51] yeah [17:51] getting timeouts on the lucid nomination page [17:51] will have to try later [17:52] hmm, i'm able to get through [17:53] hi all [17:53] anyone around? [17:55] yeah me and Rocket2DMn [17:55] flight alright? [17:56] hey mdke [17:56] flights were good, but long [17:56] wow, gnome-user-docs has been translated into Spanish 100% [17:56] that's insane [17:56] by the time i wrote those emails, i had already been up over 24 hours [17:56] and i'm still up [17:57] mdke: yeah, even when we were working on gnome-docs upstream... [17:57] ouch [17:57] they were translating almost as we were writing [17:57] they are awesome [17:57] but we changed at least half the upstream strings I think [17:57] mdke: any reaction to the emails i sent out? [17:58] part of what i'm trying to do... i know that some of the criticism of UDS is that things seem to get decided here w/o community input [17:58] so i'm trying to keep everyone abrest of stuff [17:58] j1mc: good stuff, but no particular reaction. I agree with what you said about open week [17:59] I don't think that documentation things can be decided at UDS, there isn't enough ubuntu-doc presence. But it seems to me to be a great chance for you to get some input from non-doc people [17:59] yeah [17:59] we can then discuss things afterwards at our next meeting [17:59] and not having much of a reaction is ok - i just want to make sure that silence isn't 'opposition in silence.' [17:59] that DITA thing sounds interesting [18:00] yeah, i have watched their youtube videos, but it's a bit hard to grasp [18:00] j1mc: no, I'm personally very happy that you took the time to write them [18:00] j1mc: and if you can carry on, it's definitely great, although I know UDS will be tiring [18:00] yeah - we'll see how it goes [18:00] but if you don't manage it, we can catch up afterwards [18:00] canonical folks are having a canonical-only dinner. [18:00] i'm in bed. :) [18:01] quite right [18:01] Matt Nuzum is an awesome guy, I'm pleased you're with him [18:01] cool. yeah, i met some of the back-end web devs, too. [18:01] they all visited matt together [18:02] well, thanks for the encouragement [18:02] thanks to you [18:02] now get some rest :D [18:02] thanks,mdke :) [18:02] and enjoy the experience [18:02] dont forget to have fun while you're there j1mc :) [18:02] thanks, Rocket2DMn [18:34] mdke, i pushed a fix for bug 779531 in natty, i'll do the same for lucid given its LTS. I assume you want it from maverick as well, yes? [18:34] Launchpad bug 779531 in ubuntu-docs "Please use a different IP in Wireless troubleshooting section" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779531 [18:34] yes please [18:34] I think we should do that given that the guy has specifically requested it [18:34] agreed [18:35] i'll merge the revision into lucid and maverick now [18:35] thanks [18:38] mdke, is that top level status Invalid for this bug given that it doesnt exist in Oneiric? [18:41] i marked it as such, i think that's the proper procedure [18:44] yes, although the version currently in oneiric has the bug, because our branch hasn't yet been uploaded [18:44] so the version in oneiric is just the one in natty [18:47] i suppose that's true [18:48] i guess i mark it as fix committed for oneirc then since when we do push a package it wont hae the bug? [18:48] still, it won't be true for long and help.u.c doesn't have that version, so I think it's ok [18:48] i'll just leave it as is [18:51] yeah [19:53] mdke: nixternal normally took care of that side. im starting to learn the admin functions of the docs for kubuntu-docs. it streamlines translations? [19:57] DarkwingDuck: yes, it should help [19:57] DarkwingDuck: I'm happy to take care of it [20:22] mdke: Thank you, one request... do have the translation process written down or, what the requirements are from here on out so that I can learn and understand more? [20:27] DarkwingDuck: yes, but (like many of our documentation) it's out of date [20:27] mdke: Yeah, I'm running into that a lot. [20:27] DarkwingDuck: I will update it soon [20:28] mdke: We also need to have two documentation guides... You guys use Mallard on the Ubuntu side correct? [20:29] since recently yes [20:29] We still use DocBook because of upstream using it. [20:29] right [20:30] But, The only thing I don't understand anymore is how the translations work. [20:30] * mdke hopes for some Gnome/KDE upstream cooperation [20:30] anymore/yet [20:30] mdke: Well, that a tough one... the licence that KDE Docs use is not compatable with CC [20:31] that's not a problem, it's on document formatting and processing that I'm hoping for cooperation [20:31] mdke: what did you have in mind? [20:31] re cooperation? [20:32] well, I know that shaunm has had some discussions about whether/how Mallard could be used in KDE [20:32] and some of the work done on yelp 3 has been to make some of the technology easier to use with non-Gnome desktops [20:33] mdke: I love mallard. And it can be used but, I'm not sure the KDE guys want to re-write all their documentation. [20:33] (as far as I understand it, which isn't much) [20:33] * DarkwingDuck nods [20:33] DarkwingDuck: I believe there is a kubuntu guy at UDS interested in documentation so hopefully he and j1mc can get together [20:33] It's doable and I'm all for it but, the KDE guys and balking at a rewrite [20:34] I'm remote participating this time around... There is a Kubuntu Wiki discussion on one of the days... maybe he will show up and I can talk to him. [20:34] I believe there has been some interest in improving the KDE help center [20:34] e.g. http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/season-of-kde-need-help-anyone/ [20:34] don't know whether it got much traction from upstream though [20:34] Yes, that is Harald Sitter one of our senior developers [20:35] right, he's the guy at UDS I believe [20:35] For Kubuntu/KDE [20:35] Yes. [20:35] He and I work very close together. [20:35] cool [20:35] I would like to see us work closer together too. [20:36] in re to help.ubuntu.com [20:36] Maybe getting the other flavors involved with that. Kubuntu, Xubuntu ect... [20:36] ah, you mean you and I? [20:36] sure [20:37] Aye, nixternal has kinda handed the project my direction [20:37] jjesse is fairly busy but a huge part as well [20:38] But, you and I have talked I think, 2 or 3 times and it was when i was applying for committer access :D [20:38] I think this could be a good time for the team, things are quite active at the moment and if we can harnass that momentum to attract some more contributors, we should be looking good [20:38] momentum is a cool thing [20:38] * DarkwingDuck nods [20:38] That it is. [20:38] anyway, on translation [20:38] Aye [20:38] the documentation we have right now is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation [20:38] the top section is for translators [20:38] the bottom section is for us [20:39] * DarkwingDuck nods [20:39] this will get easier as we move in the next release to using Launchpad's automatic translation import/export feature [20:39] I think nixternal re-wrote the scripts so that it would build correctly in Kubuntu/KDE [20:40] could be [20:40] He was complaining about that this last cycle. [20:40] I missed that I think [20:40] I think what I'll do is bug him till he drops that on me [20:40] Then, I'll add the section for kubuntu-docs [20:41] well, we don't necessarily need a separate section [20:41] Because I know our build varies slightly but, enough to confusing me for months till I figured it out. [20:41] No, intergrated. [20:41] let's see how things go [20:41] * DarkwingDuck nods [20:42] ok, I'm off for a while, cya later [20:42] Thanks mdke for everything. [20:43] and we will have to start working together better :) [20:56] speaking of translations, I'm going to be migrating gnome's docs to the new build tools using itstool in the coming months. is this something the ubuntu crowd is interested in? [20:57] hey guys [20:57] hey DarkwingDuck [21:01] hello ailo [21:07] Hey Captainkrtek [21:07] hey dude :D [21:07] how've you been? [21:07] Busy [21:07] yeah I bet [21:07] forgot you did stuff in this community [21:07] nice to see a familiar face around here [21:07] Working deep with Kubuntu and writing a book [21:07] wow! [21:08] Aye! It's awesome to see someone from another community over here [21:08] :D [21:08] Just joined here a few weeks ago [21:09] https://launchpad.net/~steven.richards [21:09] ^ Noob ;) [21:09] Not bad :D [21:09] still noob status [21:09] https://launchpad.net/~david.wonderly [21:09] ^god [21:10] Not really. [21:11] you've done alot [21:11] Been around a couple years. [21:11] yeah [21:11] Most of my work it's listed there there. [21:11] there/though [21:12] I have a lot on github and KDE [21:12] yeah I bet [21:12] I was getting tired of Android dev. [21:12] too much drama [21:12] Yeah, it was getting drama filled. [21:12] here you can avoid the drama if you want. [21:12] definetly [21:12] way more professional [21:12] :D [21:13] restricted teams and such [21:13] What else you getting involved with? [21:13] umm [21:13] Ubuntu / Gnome docs [21:13] and Ubuntu Manual [21:13] trying to find some other projects [21:13] * DarkwingDuck nods [21:13] Kubuntu docs need work? [21:13] A bit, I don't wan tto overload you. [21:14] We use DocBook instead of mallard [21:14] Im free :P [21:14] ahh [21:14] need to learn that then [21:14] im up for a challenge :) [21:14] But, we are going to be rebuilding our wiki [21:14] tell me where the work is needed [21:14] and ill do it [21:14] This week is a bit of anightmare for me [21:14] oh? [21:14] UDS and i'm participating remotly. [21:15] ahh [21:15] So, it will be long nights for me. [21:15] Because UDS is in Budapest [21:15] fun :P [21:15] Starts at midnight [21:15] how are you participating [21:15] Midnight to 7a [21:15] IRC and streaming [21:15] ahh cool [21:16] you in California right? [21:16] http://uds.ubuntu.com/participate/remote/ [21:16] Yes. San Diego [21:16] cool [21:16] I think so. :D [21:16] hehe [21:16] DarkwingDuck: are you working during the day too? [21:17] or do you get a chance to sleep in there? :P [21:17] Pendulum: I'm unemployed ATM :( [21:17] I have to go setup a set of printers at work in a bit [21:17] DarkwingDuck: *hugs*, but at least it means you get sleep this week? [21:17] Yup [21:17] more time to work on Ubuntu ;) [21:17] And my book. [21:17] what are you writing? [21:18] A book on Documentation within a community. Howto and theory [21:18] very cool! [21:18] Here is the TOC http://pastebin.com/LbMyzxhx [21:18] If you need someone else to help with that I'd be glad to [21:18] DarkwingDuck: that sounds really interesting [21:18] very cool... [21:18] how far are you in? [21:18] about 65% [21:18] wow [21:19] anyone else writing it with you? [21:19] I'll be finished by mid june [21:19] Nope. This is my little project for some extra $$ [21:19] I have a publisher that is interested. [21:19] Ill be sure to buy a copy [21:19] I know someone at the for dummies guides [21:20] have their email somewhere... [21:20] I'll have it for free download online with a donate button and I'll have it sold. It's the best of both worlds [21:20] perfect [21:20] well congrats :) [21:20] :D I've been planning it for a while and now I'm finally writing it. [21:20] that's awesome [21:21] that'll be a huge help to the community [21:21] and many new comers looking for how to help [21:21] There are a bunch of books on tech writing and a few on community but none that really bridge the gap between the two. [21:21] DarkwingDuck: nothing to do with markup language. itstool is for any xml format. [21:22] and how to write documentation [21:22] how to write helpful docs. [21:22] shaunm: I debated it... But because there are sooooo many languages and tools I was thinking of tossing the major ones in an appendex [21:23] Because each project uses differnt systems... take us for example. [21:23] mallard, xml, docbook [21:23] Ubuntu-docs = Mallard / Kubuntu-docs = DocBook [21:23] shaunm: yes, I'm interested, but we would need to get the tools packaged for Debian and into Ubuntu, I guess [21:23] There are 4 or 5 more that I've run into. [21:23] mdke: yes of course [21:23] DarkwingDuck: not really following the problem. what are you using right now to translate DocBook? [21:24] we use xml2po right now [21:24] for docbook and Mallard [21:24] shaunm: I misunderstood your question. [21:24] shaunm: sorry. [21:25] DarkwingDuck, is there much going on in the oneiric branch for kubuntu? [21:25] Captainkrtek: I just set it. we will discuss more of what our plans are at UDS when the Kubuntu guys have meetings. [21:25] gotcha [21:25] shaunm: looks like yelp-tools isn't in debian yet [21:25] anything else I could help with DarkwingDuck ? [21:26] Captainkrtek: Ask me after this week. :P [21:26] mdke: I made the first tarballs today [21:26] shaunm: aha! [21:26] Captainkrtek: I have not started planning for Oneiric yet. [21:26] hehe k [21:26] shaunm: will itstool become part of yelp-tools? [21:26] Captainkrtek: But when I do, we have an extensive wiki ToDo list [21:27] sure :) [21:27] mdke: itstool has had releases for a couple weeks, but I doubt any distros are going to pick it up until somebody (like gnome) starts using it and forcing its adoption [21:27] if you need any help just ping me [21:27] Captainkrtek: I prolly will setup some things but, I'll push once this book is finished. [21:27] mdke: no, itstool will remain a separate package. I'm trying to keep it very general-purpose and neutral [21:27] releases aren't even on gnome.org [21:27] shaunm: how come? [21:28] okay [21:28] also... [21:28] just found a bug [21:28] heh [21:28] Captainkrtek: ubuntu or kubuntu? [21:29] ubuntu [21:29] wider adoption, easier maintenance, less bickering [21:29] well the bug already exists sorta... [21:29] but I have something to add [21:29] shaunm: ok [21:30] mdke: looks like I'm going to be able to host it on freedesktop.org, which will be nice [21:31] also dependencies. yelp-tools depends on yelp-xsl for its various scripts. there's no reason itstool should have to depend on that [21:31] gotcha [21:31] am I right that in theory yelp-tools and yelp-xsl are also non-Gnome specific? [21:32] is there a way to attach 2 or more screenshots? [21:32] mdke: right, there's nothing particularly gnome-specific about them, except that they take their name from a gnome package, and they're hosted on gnome.org [21:32] to a bug comment [21:34] shaunm: well, I would certainly be interested in trying the tools if we can get them packaged and into the Ubuntu archive [21:35] sure, I get that people want packages. I have no idea how to make that happen, though [21:35] hey guys, what directory are we supposed to build the oneiric docs from? [21:35] I've basically only ever developed on the source-tarball side of things [21:35] in the case of UBuntu, packages normally come from debian [21:36] MOTU can add a package into repositories [21:36] As long as there is someone to maintain them. [21:36] shaunm: our best practice is to get it into Debian first, then it comes into Ubuntu automatically [21:36]