[01:08] <snap-l> brousch: Yes, yes I am 85 years old
[01:23] <snap-l> Reminder: There's a monthly IRC meeting at 9pm
[01:27] <Thirtysixway> here?
[01:28] <rick_h__> party
[01:51] <snap-l> here, yes.
[01:52] <rick_h__> irc meeting > work meeting?
[01:56] <snap-l> ?
[01:56] <rick_h__> sorry, thinking of you always talking about XXX meeting at work
[01:56] <rick_h__> trying to think of the name, web something?
[02:00] <snap-l> Webex
[02:01] <rick_h__> yea, that's it
[02:01] <rick_h__> anyway, irc linux mtg > webex work meeting to start the week off
[02:01] <snap-l> Oh most definitely
[02:01] <snap-l> I wish all of my meetigs were on IRC
[02:01] <rick_h__> it's time!
[02:01] <snap-l> Well, most of them
[02:01] <rick_h__> so anyone know if greg-g made it back yet?
[02:01] <snap-l> Yep, let's call it to order
[02:01] <snap-l> greg-g: Are you online?
[02:02] <snap-l> OK, I think he's still making way back to the great catcher's mitt
[02:03] <rick_h__> crap
[02:03] <rick_h__> anyone have the link to the agenda then?
[02:03] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/60/detail/
[02:04] <snap-l> That's the link to the agenda
[02:04] <snap-l> Anyone have anything to add?
[02:04] <rick_h__> was going to bring up mug this tues
[02:04] <rick_h__> if anyone wants to submit a lightning talk on something loco-ish would be cool
[02:04] <rick_h__> some natty love, or maybe something else
[02:04] <snap-l> Yeah, the more the merrier
[02:05] <snap-l> I'll be talking about Gogle Voice
[02:05] <rick_h__> so first, anyone else here in this meeting betsides me and snap-l ?
[02:05] <snap-l> Don't be shy. :)
[02:05] <_stink_> here
[02:06] <snap-l> Great, three people... let's start a magazine. ;)
[02:06] <rick_h__> I get the back page
[02:06] <snap-l> gah...
[02:06] <snap-l> I was going to call back page.
[02:06] <snap-l> Someone listened to TWiT recently.
[02:06] <rick_h__> ok, so MUG meeting tues, you coming _stink_ ?
[02:06] <_stink_> rick_h__: very unlikely. :/  Tuesdays are more or less impossible
[02:07] <rick_h__> gah, ok well then
[02:07] <snap-l> _stink_: So, yes, then?
[02:07] <rick_h__> hah
[02:07] <_stink_> hah.  you sound like a former boss of mine.
[02:07] <rick_h__> ok, so our group is giving two lightning talks so far
[02:07] <rick_h__> sounds like some good rep of the loco, not ubuntu topics, but still cool
[02:08] <rick_h__> next up, penguicon...so anything interesting happen?
[02:08] <snap-l> Well, regardless, if anyone is going, and wants to talk, by all means let the folks at MUG know
[02:08] <snap-l> Penguicon, as always was awesome
[02:08] <snap-l> not as much tech as I would have liked, but good stuff
[02:08] <snap-l> jcastro spread the love on Unity and Natty
[02:09] <snap-l> Got me considering running the damn thing. :)
[02:09] <rick_h__> lol
[02:09] <rick_h__> sucker!
[02:09] <snap-l> Release party was awesome. If anyone has any photos on flickr, please add them to the group
[02:09] <_stink_> ... does it work now?
[02:09] <_stink_> unity
[02:09] <rick_h__> just don't touch it
[02:09] <snap-l> _stink_: Works as well as the beta
[02:10] <snap-l> so if you were working prior to the beta, then you'll still be working
[02:10] <snap-l> but if you were hosed, you're likely still hosed.
[02:10] <snap-l> But I have to say it's pretty sweet overall
[02:10] <rick_h__> so I wanted to see what people thought about the release party like that
[02:11] <rick_h__> I'm wondering if we need to find a better room/way going forward?
[02:11] <snap-l> rick_h__: if we're doing it at Penguicon, it would be nice to have a room party
[02:11] <snap-l> That way we would be on the schedule
[02:11] <rick_h__> ok, what's the time frame for that to put together?
[02:12] <rick_h__> should we put some notes on a calendar now for "schedule room" or something?
[02:12] <greg-g> heya, home now
[02:13] <rick_h__> yay, greg-g can take over now
[02:13] <greg-g> yeah, so, the date for the LoCo sponsored MUG meeting is... June right? or was it may :/
[02:13] <rick_h__> it's june
[02:13] <greg-g> ok, good
[02:13] <rick_h__> mug meeting is this tues for lightning talks
[02:13] <greg-g> right
[02:13] <rick_h__> and they'd love some more talks so if anyone is coming and wants to spend 5-10min on something cool, encourage you all to submit
[02:13]  * greg-g nods
[02:13] <greg-g> send an email to the ubuntu-us-mi list?
[02:14] <greg-g> I can, if you want
[02:14] <rick_h__> I didn't, I figured that's mug board people :P
[02:14]  * greg-g looks at snap-l 
[02:15] <snap-l> What did I not do now? :)
[02:15] <rick_h__> do you think we should send to the mi list for mug this week?
[02:15] <rick_h__> or too late don't bother?
[02:15] <snap-l> Yeah, I'll send something
[02:15] <greg-g> coolio
[02:16] <snap-l> I'll send that out tomorrow
[02:16] <greg-g> snap-l / rick_h__ : other than the need for an actual room next year, anything else from the release party?
[02:17] <snap-l> We had a LOT of people there
[02:17] <snap-l> some who were part of the loco, and some new faces
[02:17] <greg-g> awesome
[02:17] <snap-l> Plus some folks just hanging out
[02:17] <rick_h__> yea, we should start pimping the Loco MUG meeting
[02:17] <rick_h__> try to get a lot of the new faces there
[02:17] <greg-g> so, I'm wondering if I should make up a basic template for a "sign-in" kind of sheet, or at least, "add me to the mailing list"
[02:17]  * greg-g nods
[02:18] <snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/Penguicon2011#5602144130086252498
[02:18] <rick_h__> greg-g: what about the other way, like business cards to hand out?
[02:18] <rick_h__> with the site, list, irc info, etc
[02:18] <greg-g> not a bad idea
[02:18] <rick_h__> I guess I just don't don't want to be the one collecting info
[02:18] <rick_h__> but don't mind handing stuff out
[02:18] <greg-g> yeah, hear ya
[02:19] <greg-g> so, ok, I'll put that on my list for this week, creating a basic business card
[02:19] <rick_h__> cool, I know some other locos have done some things
[02:19] <rick_h__> maybe we can crib off them
[02:19] <greg-g> oh yeah, I'll take a look around
[02:20] <rick_h__> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-in/2010-October/000914.html for instance
[02:20] <rick_h__> but yea, I think that would be cool before the next release party
[02:21] <rick_h__> and willing to help sponsor that
[02:21] <greg-g> oh right, forgot about that
[02:21]  * greg-g nods
[02:21] <greg-g> duly noted
[02:21] <snap-l> That would be cool
[02:21] <greg-g> awesome.. so, are we good on speakers for our meeting?
[02:21] <snap-l> I think the only one confirmed is rick_h__
[02:21] <rick_h__> I've not heard, do we have a wiki page up with submissions?
[02:21] <greg-g> all I have in my tomboy note is you, rick_h__
[02:21] <rick_h__> and have we written the check to MUG?
[02:22] <greg-g> we haven't, but i have the money
[02:22] <greg-g> so I can whenever
[02:22] <rick_h__> it's all confirmed/what not
[02:22] <rick_h__> ah ok
[02:22] <rick_h__> ok, well some ideas: some ubuntu one talk would be awesome I think
[02:22] <greg-g> alright, so, after the MUG meeting this week, on Wed, I'll send a note to the list asking for participation
[02:23] <rick_h__> cool
[02:23] <greg-g> good idea
[02:23] <rick_h__> let me know before you send it out
[02:23] <greg-g> yeah, def
[02:23] <rick_h__> we can try to generate a list of interesting bits
[02:23] <rick_h__> and try to recruit people for talks vs just "anyone want to do anything"
[02:23] <greg-g> right right, much better
[02:23] <snap-l> I'm creating an event on the calendar now
[02:23] <greg-g> awesome
[02:23] <greg-g> thanks buddy
[02:24]  * greg-g has been using "buddy" too much recently
[02:24] <rick_h__> greg-g is just friendly like that
[02:25] <greg-g> :)
[02:25] <greg-g> my friendliness got me through security today without ID :)
[02:25] <rick_h__> happened ot my wife a while ago
[02:25] <rick_h__> got her purse stolen in DC
[02:25] <rick_h__> ugh
[02:25] <greg-g> ugh
[02:25] <rick_h__> lol
[02:25] <rick_h__> glad you made it safe
[02:26] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/974/detail/
[02:26] <snap-l> Yeah, greg-g, that sucks (no ID)
[02:26] <brousch> loco meeting in eefect?
[02:26] <greg-g> brousch: indeed
[02:26] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, boyeeeee
[02:26] <greg-g> just in time for the near ending ;)
[02:26] <rick_h__> brousch: how was the west side release party?
[02:27] <rick_h__> any notes to think about going forward?
[02:27] <brousch> it was pretty good
[02:27] <brousch> it was held at the usual wmlug meeting, and had about double normal wmlug attendence
[02:27] <snap-l> rick_h__: I think we need to get some more folks to commit to the meeting
[02:27] <snap-l> the mug meeting, I mean
[02:27] <rick_h__> snap-l: yea, definitely
[02:27] <brousch> it's bigger if held with grlug
[02:27] <rick_h__> I mean, we don't need 10min lightning talks
[02:27] <snap-l> We'll have one more meeting prior
[02:28] <rick_h__> but 4 or so would be good
[02:28] <greg-g> brousch: awesome
[02:28] <snap-l> but would be good to get some more folks to commit
[02:28] <snap-l> I'll commit as a last resort to showing off Unity
[02:28] <rick_h__> well will ping smoser and jcastro
[02:28] <snap-l> kk
[02:28] <rick_h__> I think it'd be cool to see jcastro show off some ubuntu one/banshee goodness
[02:29] <greg-g> brousch: oh yeah, nice blog post on unity, btw
[02:29] <rick_h__> and smoser maybe something interesting cloud-side for things going on
[02:29] <snap-l> Assuminghe's in town. ;)
[02:29] <rick_h__> yea, well they're gone this week I know
[02:29] <rick_h__> so next couple of weeks, but should be back in June
[02:29]  * greg-g nods
[02:29] <rick_h__> /in/by/
[02:30] <snap-l> OK, so who wants to bang the drum for participants?
[02:31] <greg-g> for LoCoMUG? I can
[02:31] <rick_h__> so after the meeting this week greg-g and I will work on an email
[02:31] <snap-l> OK, cool
[02:31] <rick_h__> but we'll wait until Tues clears
[02:31] <greg-g> with rick_h__ , of course
[02:31] <greg-g> yeah
[02:31] <greg-g> but you'll do this week, right snap-l ?
[02:31] <greg-g> (ie: hey! give lightning talks!)
[02:32] <snap-l> Yeah, I'll mail out for this week's MUG meeting
[02:32] <greg-g> word
[02:33] <snap-l> Any more to talk about re: MUG foo?
[02:33] <rick_h__> well just need to cooridnate the dollars there
[02:33] <greg-g> snap-l: question for you/board: just bring the check the day of?
[02:33] <snap-l> Yeah, that sould be fine
[02:33] <greg-g> ok, cool
[02:33] <snap-l> There's no worries about getting paid.
[02:33] <rick_h__> anything else they need from us?
[02:33] <greg-g> you know how to get me :)
[02:33] <snap-l> we know greg-g is good for it
[02:34] <rick_h__> I'm sure they want some committed stuff to pub before hand
[02:34] <snap-l> and we'll lay the smack down if not. ;)
[02:34] <snap-l> Most definitely
[02:34] <snap-l> The sooner the better. :)
[02:34] <greg-g> I'd like to write up a little one pager with the list of names from the people who donated to give with the check, just for ceremonial sake :)
[02:34] <snap-l> esp before 5/31
[02:35] <brousch> get one of those giant checks
[02:35] <greg-g> brousch: yeah, definitely!
[02:36] <greg-g> oh ed mcmahon
[02:36] <rick_h__> has widox done anything lately? maybe we'll rope him in during a CHC meeting
[02:36] <greg-g> doit!
[02:36] <rick_h__> love irc'ing when people are afk
[02:36] <greg-g> need to get him up here
[02:36] <rick_h__> we're coming widox, watch out...
[02:36] <greg-g> s/here/there/
[02:37] <snap-l> heh
[02:37] <snap-l> Anything else, or should we put a bow on it, and call it a day?
[02:38] <greg-g> a day
[02:38] <snap-l> Also, Michael Arrington is an ass
[02:38] <rick_h__> lol, what did he do now?
[02:38] <snap-l> http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/07/tech-press-screw-them-all/
[02:39] <snap-l> Also, Facebook comments are bullshit
[02:40] <rick_h__> hah
[02:40] <snap-l> OK, I think we're done then. ;)
[02:40] <snap-l> Thanks everyone!
[02:40] <greg-g> thank you for getting it started without me!
[02:40] <jjesse> we have a meeting?
[02:40] <snap-l> Hope to see each and every one of you special snowflakes at MUG on Tuesday
[02:41] <rick_h__> bookie demo woot
[02:42] <snap-l> Looking forward to taht.
[02:46] <brousch> ucast it
[02:46] <brousch> ustream
[03:03] <jordon_> Does anyone have a good irc client suggestion?
[03:03] <snap-l> irssi
[03:04] <snap-l> xchat
[03:04] <brousch> pidgin
[03:06] <jordon_> thanks
[03:06] <jordon_> I'm not a fan of konversation
[03:07] <brousch> running kde?
[03:11] <jjesse> quassel is the default
[03:41]  * widox hides under desk
[03:42] <widox> rick_h__:  --^
[13:17] <brousch> rick_h__: did you see this article? http://sontek.net/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide
[13:18] <brousch> very thorough
[13:20] <rick_h__> brousch: yea, saw it and have it open
[13:20] <rick_h__> haven't had a chance ot read it yet, home with sick boy
[13:20] <brousch> ug, good luck
[13:27] <rick_h__> heh, no problem, just another round of pink eye
[13:27] <brousch> luckily we haven't encountered that one
[13:28] <brousch> cross-platform mobile dev is full of fail
[13:29] <brousch> i'm afraid i will have to re-learn java if i want to work on my android apps
[13:33] <rick_h__> it's not that bad
[13:33] <rick_h__> very contageous, but we get it regularly it seems
[13:33] <rick_h__> as for mobile, web or fail
[13:33] <rick_h__> going to have a jquery mobile version of bookie coming next
[13:33] <brousch> i need the camera and i need to mess with maps
[13:35] <rick_h__> well maps is ok with geo location
[13:35] <rick_h__> but yea, camera I'm not sure on
[13:35] <rick_h__> google is working on it, but it's not there yet
[13:36] <brousch> i need to actually add elements to the maps and move them around
[13:36] <brousch> well, i need the user to do that
[13:49] <greg-g> brousch: what is this for? work or pleasure?
[13:50] <brousch> pleasure
[13:50] <greg-g> cool
[13:58] <brousch> greg-g: at least they were pleasure until i realized i will have to use java ;)
[14:00] <snap-l> Google just needs to implment Objective C on the JVM. ;)
[14:00] <snap-l> Then you can have developer bliss
[14:01] <rick_h__> heh
[14:01] <brousch> i need a pyjamas-like thing that generates java (not bytecode) from python
[14:01] <rick_h__> brousch: have you checked out phonegap and such?
[14:02] <brousch> they seem very hacky
[14:02] <snap-l> They keep saying that platform fragmentation is scaring away Android developers, but I think the real reason is nobody wants to do more than one project in  Java
[14:02] <brousch> i can't get titanium to sync its example project to the emulator
[14:02] <brousch> and phonegap seems really light on documentation
[14:03] <brousch> maybe i'm wrong about phonegap. i just found another big chunk of docs
[14:04] <rick_h__> brousch: yea, I'm not sure to be honest. It's one of those things to check out when I get a chance
[14:04] <rick_h__> ColonelPanic001: was checking out osmething that was ruby based I think
[14:04] <rick_h__> rather do ruby than java
[14:05] <snap-l> ++
[14:05] <ColonelPanic001> wat
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> http://rhomobile.com/
[14:06] <rick_h__> ColonelPanic001: what was the mobile thing?
[14:06] <wolfger> snap-l: devs are being scared away? Or is it just that they realize the world doesn't need another flashlight app?
[14:06] <brousch> i don't think i gave phonegap a fair shake
[14:06] <snap-l> wolfger: The world always needs flashlight apps
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> personally, I often kind of hate rhomobile. Seems like some very basic things (like setting a cookie in a webview in iPhone) don't work, get filed as a bug, and I have  yet to hear back
[14:06] <snap-l> especially ones that make sure your phone is charged before turning it on
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> ymmv, etc
[14:06] <rick_h__> brousch: yea, I've heard a lot of good things on phonegap
[14:07] <snap-l> after all, in every horror movie, the first thing to die is the flashlight. ;)
[14:07] <rick_h__> but anything non-native will have it's complications
[14:07] <rick_h__> which is why I keep thinking one day I'll end up getting that Java book
[14:07] <rick_h__> just trying to avoid iOS and C
[14:08] <brousch> right. i really need an iphone+android version of these apps i'm making, and i'd rather not learn objective-c
[14:10] <brousch> looking at phonegap again, i think it might work. html+javascript is worth some pain if i can avoid java
[14:11] <brousch> also it would be just plain weird to use python at work and java at home
[14:14] <snap-l> But it wouldn't be weird to use java at work and python at home. ;)
[14:14] <brousch> right
[14:25] <wolfger> right
[14:48] <brousch> whoa, it worked. i have a map centered on my location
[14:57] <snap-l> nice!
[14:59] <brousch> i think i am supposed to use the usual javascript google maps api, so there should be a lot of help for me going forward
[15:06] <wolfger> jjesse sent me spam? (no, not really)
[15:06] <wolfger> got spam from "Jessie J" and looked at it on the off chance it was legit, since the name sounded familiar
[15:09] <jjesse> hahaha
[15:09] <jjesse> nope not me at all
[15:10] <wolfger> creeps me out how some spam e-mails manage to use names that are not *quite* names of people I know, but very close
[15:12] <jjesse> i've been getting a lot of email in my gmail account from people who either write down the wrong email address when applying for something or the person entering the data types it wrong
[15:13] <jjesse> stuff such as dental appointments, car buying information and even alumni funds
[15:17] <wolfger> I get e-mails from German speaking people trying to communicate with some other Wolfger 2-3 times a year
[15:18] <snap-l> wolfger: Thing is, if jjesse was sending you a mail, he'd begin it "Fellow Komrade"
[15:18] <snap-l> That's how you know. ;)
[15:18] <wolfger> :-)
[15:19] <wolfger> snap-l: wtf? Lightning talks on 5/10?
[15:19] <wolfger> That's a Wings playoff game night :-p
[15:19] <snap-l> Yep
[15:19] <snap-l> Sorry, I know that hockey will still be played until September
[15:20] <snap-l> At which point we _might_ know who won the Stanley Cup
[15:20] <wolfger> LOL
[15:20] <wolfger> I'm pretty sure we'll know definitively before July
[15:20] <wolfger> you should have the decency to postpone the meeting until 5/11
[15:21] <snap-l> wolfger: If gib shows up, you'll be able to watch the meeting over his conferencing system
[15:21] <wolfger> oh, right... (computer geeks) == !(sports fans)
[15:21] <snap-l> Assuming that the network works, the camera isn't pointed up someone's nose, and there aren't solar flares.
[15:21] <wolfger> rofl
[15:22] <wolfger> I'm not going to make all 3 of those assumptions
[15:23] <wolfger> well I plan to watch the video conference, and derive some value from it, just to prove snap-l wrong. :-D
[15:23] <snap-l> Please do. I want this to work
[15:24] <wolfger> but I will probably see the inside of somebody's nose instead
[15:30] <brousch> bah, tivo the game and watch it later
[15:30] <wolfger> are you insane???
[15:30] <brousch> if you're lucky you'll hear the score before you watch and can save yourself 2 or 3 hours
[15:30] <jjesse> watch the game in fast forward
[15:30] <wolfger> exactly why that's not acceptable
[15:31] <wolfger> I don't want to save myself 2 or 3 hours
[15:31] <wolfger> I do tend to dvr the game and start watching a half hour late so I can FF through commercials and intermission
[15:32] <_stink_> that is the best strategy for sure
[15:32] <wolfger> jjesse: watching in FF is what I do when the game sucks (i.e. most Lions games prior to last season)
[15:32] <jjesse> i watch tiger games like that as well
[15:32] <wolfger> baseball *must* be watched in fast forward, just so you can see the action
[15:33] <_stink_> the thing about watching in FF is that you can catch all the 'important' stuff, but you don't get any feel for how the game is.
[15:33] <wolfger> otherwise you get 10 minutes of the pitcher looking over his shoulder at the runner on first base
[15:33] <_stink_> like who is playing well, poorly, which team is better
[15:33] <wolfger> _stink_: That's why I save it for games where I already know my team is sucking... and baseball...
[15:34] <wolfger> scratch that. i don't actually watch baseball
[15:34] <_stink_> hah
[15:34] <_stink_> i would love to watch baseball, but that is the lowest priority among all the sports, so i never get to it.
[15:35] <wolfger> oh, I give basketball the basement priority
[15:35] <wolfger> I would rather even watch nascar
[15:35] <brousch> all sports are a waste of time
[15:35] <wolfger> which is sad
[15:35] <brousch> watching them
[15:36] <_stink_> hmm, i had forgotten about basketball.
[15:36] <_stink_> and nascar is not a sport.
[15:37] <_stink_> i guess for me it's soccer -> hockey -> other awesome stuff like rugby/aussie rules -> football -> baseball.
[15:37] <_stink_> but i can't even watch all the soccer that's on, so really it's soccer and red wings.
[15:38] <wolfger> My watching priority is: Lions (when they don't suck), Red Wings, Lions when they suck, poker (not really a sport, but it's on the sports channels), soccer, everything else that I never watch intentionally but will if somebody else is.
[15:39] <_stink_> so you're a Lions fan? :)
[15:39] <wolfger> Depends on the year :-)
[15:39] <wolfger> some years, I watch Lions games just to root for the other team
[15:39] <_stink_> haha
[15:39] <wolfger> but last year I was a fan, and this year I plan to be as well
[15:40] <ColonelPanic001> I've seen a grand total of maybe an hour of football. It was a fascinating display of walking around.
[15:40] <wolfger> ColonelPanic001: you watched golf and thought it was football? ;-)
[15:40] <ColonelPanic001> Golf at least doesn't pretend it's much more than walking around.
[15:40] <wolfger> golf... the only thing more boring than basketball
[15:41] <_stink_> i would take watching golf over pro basketball.
[15:41] <_stink_> golf is great background TV for a Sunday.
[15:41] <ColonelPanic001> background TV == radio
[15:42] <wolfger> football became a lot more interesting to me once I started looking at it from a combat perspective. Formations of people out to hurt each other whilst pursuing an objective.
[15:42] <ColonelPanic001> yeah, might be fun to play, but boring as hell to watch.
[15:42] <_stink_> i would love to know more about blocking schemes, yeah
[15:42] <_stink_> but i am just a nerd
[15:45] <_stink_> http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/05/09/commodore.64.reborn/index.html?hpt=C2
[15:45] <_stink_> hah
[15:54] <wolfger> _stink_: that is so FTW. Aside from the price.
[16:00] <brousch> i like to bowl and golf, but i can't stand to watch either on tv
[16:08] <snap-l> I'll believe it when I see it (re: the C64 PC case)
[16:10] <snap-l> Seems whatever entity calls itself commodore has a real problem with delivering anything
[16:12] <tjagoda> Says its supposed to ship in june
[16:12] <tjagoda> you dont have long to wait
[16:13] <snap-l> They were also planning on resurrecting the AMIGA
[16:13] <snap-l> and that pretty much died
[16:15] <snap-l> Oh, I love conference calls where something is found defective, and someone wonders why testing didn't find this
[16:15] <snap-l> "the barn door is open, and the horse is gone. How did this happen?"
[16:16] <wolfger> heh
[16:16] <wolfger> yeah, that's always great
[16:17] <wolfger> "The good news is, your hindsight is perfect. The bad news is, your foresight needs a stronger prescription."
[16:17] <snap-l> And I suspect that the testing is done to make it easy for humans to do testing
[16:17] <snap-l> which is why I'm very much for automated testing
[16:17] <snap-l> computers don't look for shortcuts.
[16:19] <wolfger> now if only we could get  a computer to *write* the automated tests....
[16:20] <wolfger> Alas... until Skynet goes fully operational, there will always be a human element to contribute to failure.
[17:01] <snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/04/22/open-metalcast-special-episode-cloudkicker/#comments
[17:01] <snap-l> This makes me happy
[17:02] <greg-g> snap-l: awesome!
[17:34] <rick_h__> wheee, the review I've been waiting for
[17:34] <rick_h__> so, do I go for soul crushing peer review?
[17:34] <rick_h__> light peer review
[17:35] <rick_h__> or just flat out due/evil?
[17:44] <binbrain> I can't wait till peer review time here. The new guy likes to use slots for everything
[17:44] <rick_h__> lol
[17:44] <rick_h__> no one at my work knows what slots are
[17:44] <binbrain> that's good for the most part
[17:45] <binbrain> very few use cases for them
[17:45] <rick_h__> I don't know, if you know what slots are you've at least looked at nametuples and probably know a little about performance tuning
[17:46] <wolfger> peer review?
[17:46] <rick_h__> ok, that reads mean, but there's no way to get around it.
[17:46]  * rick_h__ clicks submit
[17:46] <wolfger> how does that work?
[17:46] <wolfger> I am without peer... :-D
[17:46] <rick_h__> heh, your boss asks 5 people to fill out an online review of your work
[17:46] <rick_h__> then combines it all and lets you know how you pissed off everyone during the year
[17:47] <wolfger> yeah, it's way too easy for that to become a popularity contest
[17:47] <binbrain> and the person that receives the most criticism is immediately killed
[17:47]  * rick_h__ goes back to edit more bad stuff into his review
[17:47] <rick_h__> I didn't know that part
[17:48] <wolfger> "I don't like this guy" and/or "I feel threatened by how much smarter he is" turns into "bad review"
[17:48] <rick_h__> well bosses job to read between the lines
[17:48] <binbrain> rick_h_, eXtreme peer review
[17:48] <rick_h__> end of the day you sit down with your boss, go over your goals for the year, set new ones, maybe ask about a raise
[17:48] <wolfger> whee
[17:48] <rick_h__> yea, fun stuff ...ugh
[17:49] <wolfger> I'd like a job with performance reviews and raises. I almost remember what they were like.
[17:49] <rick_h__> heh, it's my first
[17:49] <rick_h__> but already hating it
[17:49] <wolfger> and it's always nice to know everybody else thinks I'm more talented than I am
[17:49] <rick_h__> since you get asked to do reviews for people you barely work with
[17:49] <binbrain> goals... here goals are basically I'll assign you a ticket and you fix it. I remember goals at my other job "Ensure streamlined process flow for business success at an enterprise level"
[17:50] <rick_h__> and the whole 'how honest, cagey, or flat out lying' do you do
[17:50] <rick_h__> well, I had goals to prepare and preset 'classes' for the staf
[17:50] <wolfger> oh, I meant regular reviews, not peer reviews. That sounds crappy
[17:50] <rick_h__> that ended up being complete waste of time since they don't use the crap anyway
[17:51] <snap-l> Shoot me now
[17:51]  * rick_h__ loads up
[17:52] <snap-l> User posted Java code that is escaped XML code with string concatenation
[17:52] <rick_h__> snap-l: so the request for your new machine with eclipse pre-installed go through?
[17:52] <rick_h__> yay!
[17:52] <rick_h__> how nice that he escaped it for you
[17:52] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm happy.
[17:52] <snap-l> She, I believe
[17:55] <wolfger> heh
[17:56]  * wolfger simultaneously laughs at the described Java code and hides some of his old Perl code that was the same way....
[17:56] <snap-l> This is also someone who was asking when they can move their code to production last week
[17:56] <snap-l> wolfger: Perl is different
[17:57] <wolfger> because people expect it to look like garbage?
[17:58] <snap-l> I'd expect someone to piece together an XML response like this in Perl
[17:58] <snap-l> but when Java has a built-in-library for this express purpose, I'd expect people to use it
[17:58] <snap-l> especially since IT'S IN THE FUCKING EXAMPLE CODE IN THE DOCUMENTATION
[18:04] <wolfger> :-)
[18:05] <snap-l> I mean, if there's a reason, I'm all for hearing it
[18:05] <snap-l> but this is just ridiculous
[18:05] <wolfger> person is a perl coder using Java for reasons beyond their control?
[18:06] <snap-l> That can be fixed with education
[18:07] <wolfger> I mean, there's perl modules to handle XML and HTML in refined ways... but for the single-purpose scripts I was writing, learning to use those tools seemed kind of like a waste of time. :-p
[18:07] <snap-l> wolfger: It also depends on the level of control, yes.
[18:07] <snap-l> if you need to carefully craft a stanza, I get that
[18:07] <snap-l> but then again, that's a reason. ;)
[18:09] <rick_h__> http://www.webkit.org/blog/1620/webkit-remote-debugging/ and the web always wins, hell yea
[18:09] <snap-l> wow
[18:10] <snap-l> I have to say, webkit keeps impressing me
[18:11] <wolfger> cool
[18:22] <PainBank> yo, anyone have suggestions for an IT Help Desk ticket system?
[18:25] <PainBank> rick_h__: saw your post about the Review Board.  we are starting to use it at my work.. any suggestions?
[18:25] <greg-g> I dislike Footprints (windows server only, I believe)
[18:26] <jjesse> i used request tracker a long time ago
[18:26] <jjesse> almost 5 years ago
[18:26] <rick_h__> PainBank: we just went with redmine, but that's more for software side vs help desk
[18:27] <rick_h__> PainBank: and jealous with your reviewboard install
[18:27] <rick_h__> I'm dreaming of getting it in use at work
[18:28] <PainBank> rick_h__: ya we have redmine going to, but I was looking for something a bit more non-software friendly.
[18:29] <rick_h__> yea, that's what I figured. I don't have a good one for you
[18:29] <rick_h__> there's a bunch of paid ones that are supposed to be nice, but we'd never fork over the $$
[18:29] <PainBank> rick_h__: don't worry, the manager desires certain features, which are not there.... thinking...
[18:29] <PainBank> rick_h__: I know someone that we could pay to implement these for us... :D
[18:30] <PainBank> ya, the code review software is mucho $$ that is out there right now.
[18:30] <PainBank> found this link for help desk: http://www.opensourcehelpdesklist.com/
[18:31] <PainBank> looks like a lot fit the bill, butjust figuring out which one is nice...
[18:31] <PainBank> meh, could just go with it. :0
[18:32] <rick_h__> http://www.zendesk.com/ is supposed to be ok
[18:33] <rick_h__> I've not used a single oss package that would make good end user support except maybe RT if you can keep it to email
[18:44] <PainBank> thanks
[18:46] <snap-l> So the reason that they're concatenating XML is because they ran into a problem with the JAX-WS libraries under Weblogic
[18:46] <snap-l> which would lead me to think that maybe the problem is with weblogic. :)
[18:47] <snap-l> but hey, what would I know.
[19:12] <brousch> android dev is pretty fun with phonegap
[19:13] <ColonelPanic001> STFU
[19:13]  * ColonelPanic001 says, as he gets pissed off at RhoMobile
[19:13] <snap-l> No development should be fun
[19:13] <ColonelPanic001> Don't rub it in.
[19:13] <snap-l> It's all sadness and tears
[19:13] <ColonelPanic001> it is.
[19:14] <brousch> ColonelPanic001: html and javascript
[19:15] <brousch> and i kind of like eclipse, so even that doesn't bother me
[19:15] <wolfger> brousch: html and javascript written entirely in notepad
[19:16] <ColonelPanic001> yeah, RhoMobile is all Ruby/HTML/Javascript
[19:16] <ColonelPanic001> when it works
[19:16] <brousch> wolfger: eh?
[19:16] <brousch> you can use whatever editor you want to
[19:17] <wolfger> no, for maximum "sadness and tears" it needs to be Notepad.
[19:17] <wolfger> Or actually Wordpad. That's worse.
[19:17] <PainBank> now you tell me
[19:19] <snap-l> edit.exe. ;)
[19:20] <snap-l> That's a real programmer's editor
[19:20] <PainBank> haha, nice
[19:26] <wolfger> ok, let's bring it back to the realm of Linux.... you must code in red
[19:26] <wolfger> XD
[19:28] <snap-l> The coder in red.... is compiling for me
[19:28] <wolfger> byte to byte
[19:29] <snap-l> wolfger: You get a gold star for catching that reference. :)
[19:30] <wolfger> there's no errros here.... it's just running right
[19:30] <wolfger> gah.  s/errros/errors/
[19:31] <wolfger> now isn't that ironic. Don'tcha think?
[19:34] <wolfger> It's like Pai-ai-ain, in your Baa-aa-ank
[19:47] <binbrain> the following error appears 100+ times in a systems dmesg.... "Err;Fc.ToDs". Someone needs a medal for ultimate error message
[19:48] <_stink_> haha
[19:48] <_stink_> we can guess, right?
[19:49] <_stink_> Error; Feral cat. Teeth of Destructions
[19:50] <binbrain> that was my 2nd guess
[19:56] <wolfger> binbrain: http://linux.sourcearchive.com/documentation/2.6.28-9.31/cmm__data__2870_8c-source.html
[19:56] <wolfger> though I like _stink_'s explantion better
[19:57] <wolfger>  // Drop ToDs promiscous frame, it is opened due to CCX 2 channel load statistics
[20:05] <binbrain> wolfger: I was hoping that wasn't the device messing up
[20:05] <binbrain> bah
[20:06] <binbrain> err, driver likely
[20:07] <wolfger> great thing about FOSS... got an obscure error message? Google it and fight the code that generated it. :-)
[20:08] <wolfger> s/fight/find/  geez... time for me to go home
[20:09] <wolfger> well, you can fight the code that generated it, too... submit a patch for a more meaningful error message. :-p
[20:09] <binbrain> wolfger: that was so a Freudian slip
[20:14] <snap-l> I'mm be very happy when iOS has OTA updating
[20:57] <snap-l> Anyone know of a good source of 3GP video?
[20:58] <snap-l> Checked archive.org, but came up a bit short
[21:06] <snap-l> n/m, found some
[21:07] <snap-l> Also learned some things that can't be unlearned. Thanks, archive.org!
[21:07] <greg-g> lol
[21:21] <rick_h__> http://digitizor.com/2011/05/09/mark-shuttleworth-ubuntu/
[21:21] <rick_h__> and Mark makes sure I don't install ubuntu this week
[21:21] <rick_h__> thanks Mark, appreciate it
[21:22] <jjesse> let see some real numbers on how many users of ubuntu are and then we can set some goals ;)
[21:36] <snap-l> Yeah, I love how veryone glommed on to the Unity part of the equation
[21:36] <snap-l> "Well, if you want 200M users, you need to start by stroking my ego of what a desktop should be"
[21:37] <rick_h__> I'm just cranky at the whole "we're not trying to win over developers" crap
[21:37] <rick_h__> every OS out there knows they need and caters to developers
[21:37] <snap-l> Developers are a fickle breed
[21:37] <rick_h__> and here you've got canonical going "psh, we'll test/dev/do it our selves"
[21:37] <snap-l> users are an easier target
[21:38] <snap-l> Developers do what they're told. ;)
[21:57] <snap-l> I <3 proving folks wrong.
[21:57] <snap-l> Got a note that our product doesn't support certain attachmens
[21:58] <snap-l> And I've created a bundle that has proven that this is not true