[00:47] <Azelphur> http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7442949 anyone good at routing got any suggestions on this? :P
[00:51] <shauno> have you looked in iptables to see if there's anything matching?
[00:53] <shauno> see if someone got on the wrong side of fail2ban or similar
[00:55] <Azelphur> shauno, nope, my iptables entries are null
[00:55] <Azelphur> I checked :)
[00:55] <Azelphur> iptables --list shows everything is allow
[00:57] <shauno> have you tried doing traceroute from server->baduser ?
[01:15] <Azelphur> shauno, yes, that's in the thread
[01:17] <shauno> it's only one hop?
[01:18] <Azelphur> shauno, yep.
[01:18] <Azelphur> breakage \o/
[01:54] <shauno> <3 get_iplayer
[06:24] <kaushal> hi
[06:24] <kaushal> is there a way to ghost image of Ubuntu Desktop ?
[06:25] <MartijnVdS> clonezilla can do it
[06:30] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
[07:23] <daubers> Morning
[08:11] <popey> 23:13:46 < gord> we don't really support having the monitor on the left of the springboard
[08:11] <popey> has launcher been renamed to springboard?
[08:34] <dwatkins> That'll vex the iOS people.
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know a bit about jQuery? What does the if statement below mean? (I'm a bit confused by the comma. What is the callback actually working on?)
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer>    $('#browseCatalogue ul.browseSubMenu > li > a').click(function()
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer>      {
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer>         if(!$('.sub',$(this).parent()).hasClass('active'))
[08:40] <DJones> Morning all
[08:44] <MartijnVdS> howdyho
[08:53] <dutchie> :( skype
[08:56] <DJones> dutchie: Mass transfer to Ekiga, or an acceptance that it works and it doesn't really matter who owns it.  Either way, its still a closed source system and may not make much difference
[08:56] <MartijnVdS> DJones: Google Talk also works
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> DJones: with/without video
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> with/without audio
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> (in empathy)
[08:57] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Must admit, I've never tried googletalk
[08:57] <dutchie> DJones: yeah, but the problem is non-geek friends use it heavily
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> dutchie: They're not your friends anymore now.
[08:58] <dutchie> i'm sure my girlfriend would love that
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> dutchie: you'll have more time for her!
[08:58] <dutchie> not much use when she is in .ch
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> google talk, or move there ;)
[08:59] <dutchie> i think google talk
[09:00] <DJones> dutchie: Heh, to be honest, I uses what works and suits me, while personal choice will be an open source option, if closed source (because of popularity) is needed, I'll use it if necessary.  I guess as long as MS don't stop supporting non-windows versions its not likely to be a problem (as with msn etc)
[09:00]  * dutchie notes that msn is currently failing to log in via empathy
[09:01] <DJones> Pidgin FTW
[09:06] <dutchie> DJones: i have to say i agree with pragmatism
[09:07] <dutchie> although skype barely works now and is about 5 versions behind the mac/windows client
[09:08] <DJones> I found skype worked really well on linux at the start of the year when my parents were in Australia, certainly couldn't fault its basic usage, installed easily, connected with no problems, although agreed that it is some way behind the windows version
[09:09] <ali1234> empathy can't call google talk web users
[09:09] <ali1234> due to codec issues
[09:09] <gord> popey, that was the last i heard... maybe its the launcher again, i honestly can't keep up
[09:10] <popey> hah
[09:10] <popey> springboard is the apple one
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> Is there a way to disable the "Apps you can download" bit in the "Magnifying glass with a + in it" "menu"?
[09:11] <gord> i looked in to it, i honestly have no idea
[09:11] <gord> i'm gonna call it the appydoodah
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> (also, does it have a better name than "Magnifying glass with a + in it-menu"
[09:11] <ali1234> it's called unity-places-applications
[09:12] <ali1234> sorry unity-place-applications
[09:12] <ali1234> !info unity-place-applications
[09:12] <gord> MartijnVdS, only by modifying the source of the apps place
[09:12] <gord> lens
[09:13] <gord> is it that awful?
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> gord: Oh. That's annoying. The user in question doesn't have admin rights, so can't install those apps (yet it still shows them)
[09:13] <ali1234> i want to get into unity hacking actually, so i may make a patch for that
[09:13] <ali1234> seems like as good place to start as any
[09:13] <gord> MartijnVdS, interesting
[09:14] <gord> \o/ unity hacking
[09:14] <ali1234> i mean hacking in the true sense of the word
[09:14] <ali1234> ie making it do what i want, don't care what the "designers" say
[09:15] <ali1234> this sure does have a lot of build deps
[09:15] <gord> MartijnVdS, if apt doesn't know about the applications and we have no results to return, then we won't show the more apps you can download bit though, maybe that would help?
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> gord: showing options to run apt if the user can't run apt feels bad though :)
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> or at least sub-optimal
[09:17] <gord> MartijnVdS, i would agree, up to a point "hey mum, i saw this game on the computer, can i get it?" - not sure what the best solution is there
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> I'll file a bug, so People In Charge can decide
[09:18] <gord> :)
[09:18] <gord> worst comes to worst, we throw an option in there per user
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> wait.. I need to double-check if it's not unity-2d on that machine
[09:18] <gord> it wouldn't matter
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> oh? same code?
[09:18] <gord> the backend, place-applications and place-files are shared between them
[09:19] <gord> its in the backend
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> waiting for launchpad...
[09:21] <ali1234> are these c files autogenerated from the vala?
[09:22] <gord> yes
[09:22] <gord> vala compiles down to c
[09:22] <ali1234> so i need to edit the vala files?
[09:22] <ali1234> and why are the c files shipped in the source package if they are intermediate?
[09:22] <oimon> my laptop is broken so was forced to use unity 2d on my netbook yesterday for actually doing things..didn't work out too well
[09:23] <oimon> if you don't want to alt-tab, then switching windows is a nightmare
[09:23] <ali1234> yes, true
[09:23] <gord> ali1234, if the c files already exist, they are prolly not generated from vala
[09:23] <gord> look in the C code, if it looks sane then its not generated by vala, if it looks insane, its generated by vala
[09:23] <ali1234> gord: main.c, main.vala - has same const strings in the same order...
[09:24] <ali1234> the c looks pretty insane even by glib standards
[09:24] <ali1234> no comments either
[09:24] <ali1234> i've seen worse written by humans though
[09:24] <gord> ali1234, that will be generated then, not sure why its shipped
[09:24] <ali1234> all the variables are like _tmp1_ - that's dead giveaway
[09:24] <gord> what is this in?
[09:25] <ali1234> in unity-place-applications
[09:26] <gord> 30kb/s from launchpad wooo
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> gord: ooh, a record
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> gord: Is there a picture somewhere with arrows pointing at all the bits of Unity with their names?
[09:27] <AlanBell> there is
[09:27] <gord> ali1234, i just branched lp:unity-place-applications and we don't ship any c files. are you talking about the tarball? they will have c files because it just makes life easier for distribution
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: do you have a link? :)
[09:27] <AlanBell> on the lense page MartijnVdS
[09:27] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses
[09:27] <AlanBell> doesn't cover all of it
[09:28] <ali1234> gord: i did apt-get source unity-place-applications on natty
[09:28] <AlanBell> and it says launcher rather than springboard
[09:28] <davmor2> gord:  So where was you last night dude?
[09:28] <oimon> anyone listen to jono bacon's interview on the linux action show the other day?
[09:29] <gord> davmor2, i wanted to go out, hotel is suffocating, but then those plans fell through and i napped through the evening by accident :(
[09:29] <oimon> i'm glad he is no longer saying that natty rocks
[09:29] <gord> davmor2, i'm convinced you are not here anyway
[09:29] <gord> its all a big trick
[09:30] <ali1234> ah, i just realised "applications available for download" makes sense in the context of doing a search
[09:32] <ali1234> oimon: friend messaged me last night: "ok, so now ubuntu is totally rubbish, what is good?"
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10228/whats-the-right-terminology-for-unitys-ui-elements/19166#19166
[09:32] <ali1234> except he didn't say rubbish
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that explains it better :)
[09:32] <oimon> ali1234: gnome classic session is the answer :D
[09:32] <oimon> except people don't realise it
[09:33] <bigcalm> Ahoy peeps!
[09:33] <ali1234> well XFCE certainly isn't the answer
[09:33] <gord> ahoy-hoy
[09:33] <oimon> i see no reason to jump until my options have disappeared
[09:34] <oimon> while gnome classic exists then why jump?
[09:34] <ali1234> i dunno
[09:34] <ali1234> no reason
[09:34] <bigcalm> Chris Cross will make you jump
[09:34] <davmor2> gord: Damn you seeing through my cunning plan, oh wait no I am here :P I think you're not :D
[09:34] <oimon> jump jump
[09:34] <ali1234> i don't believe they (gnome) can get away with dropping it entirely
[09:34] <ali1234> or at all for that matter
[09:34] <ali1234> seems like the only thing that even fewer people like than unity is gnome shell
[09:35]  * bigcalm goes looking for some nice 80s hip-hop
[09:35] <ali1234> btw they were called kris kross
[09:35] <oimon> my company has over 500 linux desktops, possibly nearer to 1000, and we may soon be making a decision on a single distro to use
[09:35] <ali1234> just fyi
[09:40] <popey> I hate you all.
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: Why?
[09:41] <popey> http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc
[09:41] <popey> now playing
[09:41] <MartijnVdS> popey: At least it's not Rick Astley
[09:41] <bigcalm> \o/
[09:42] <bigcalm> Your musical compatibility with popeydc is HIGH
[09:42]  * bigcalm tickles popey
[09:42] <popey> :)
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> Your musical compatibility with popeydc is VERY HIGH
[09:42] <ali1234> i got very high too
[09:42] <oimon> yay dell fixed my laptop on the last day of warranty :D
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> oimon: that's what warranty is for :P
[09:43] <ali1234> that doesn't make much sense
[09:43] <oimon> MartijnVdS: the indian call centre guy didn't think so
[09:44] <oimon> rather fortunate that it should break 2 days before the 3yr was up
[09:44] <oimon> but in no uncertain terms he said i had to pay £85 since it wasn't covered by warranty
[09:45] <dutchie> Your musical compatibility with popeydc is VERY LOW
[09:45] <oimon> wow popey is stuck in the indie scene of the 90s
[09:45] <oimon> where's sleeper and blur?
[09:46] <popey> :)
[09:46] <oimon> popey: where did u go to uni?
[09:46] <bigcalm> dutchie: do you only listen to classical?
[09:46] <dutchie> not exactly
[09:46] <bigcalm> Country & Western?
[09:46] <popey> oimon: I never went to Uni
[09:46] <dutchie> http://www.last.fm/user/jshholland
[09:47] <bigcalm> Ah, you're young
[09:47] <oimon> popey: i was at manchester around that era...was good times :D
[09:47] <bigcalm> I forget now and then :)
[09:47] <oimon> "bran van 3000 - Drinkin in LA" -yesss i heard a snippet of that song the other day and couldn't think what it was
[09:48] <dutchie> bigcalm: :P
[09:48] <oimon> is lastfm free?
[09:48] <bigcalm> Yes
[09:48] <dutchie> there is a free tier and a subscriber tier
[09:52] <bigcalm> Grandmaster Flash - The Message
[09:52]  * bigcalm grooves
[09:52] <popey> Sound of Eden - Shades of Rhythm
[09:52] <bigcalm> Shaun of the Dead has this and other great 80s hits
[09:52]  * popey winds it up
[09:53] <bigcalm> New glasses will be ready for collection at lunch time. I think I'm far too excited about getting new glasses :)
[09:54]  * ali1234 makes a new lastfm account but with real name this time
[09:54] <popey> heh
[09:55] <ali1234> the trouble with making accounts under a false name
[09:55] <ali1234> is you can't tell anyone it's you
[09:55] <ali1234> otherwise they know the false name you use everywhere
[09:56] <oimon> lol
[09:56] <oimon> i was telling my friend mungojerry that the other day
[09:56] <popey> i need some help testing my webcam later
[09:56] <popey> ahem
[09:57] <popey> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/uupc
[09:59] <NET||abuse> this is driving me nuts, i thought i had my theme sorted out, lastnight the top panel was dark with the nice unity icon set, but now it's reverted to what i think is oxygen,
[09:59] <NET||abuse> i updated this machine from 10.10, and i had installed kde4 as a test, but i think it's conflicted with unity's setup
[09:59] <NET||abuse> now i'm stuck with the lighter theme in my top bar,
[09:59] <NET||abuse> really want the nice mono colours forthe unity theme
[10:00] <AlanBell> wow, just turned on two finger scrolling on the touchpad!
[10:00] <NET||abuse> so something is reverting it after i login.
[10:00] <NET||abuse> AlanBell, yeh, that's sweet
[10:00] <NET||abuse> loved that when i discovered it on my Eee
[10:00] <AlanBell> didn't support it in Maverick
[10:01] <NET||abuse> I have started trying to two finger scroll on any laptop :P
[10:01] <AlanBell> not on my laptop
[10:01] <NET||abuse> oh? did on 10.10 for me
[10:01] <NET||abuse> what laptop
[10:01] <AlanBell> samsung R530
[10:01] <NET||abuse> maybe different touchpad driver.
[10:01] <AlanBell> yeah, the OS supported it but the driver didn't
[10:02] <Apacheuk> popey: does this mean we are going to get some live show recordings via video now you have a superduper net connection?
[10:02] <AlanBell> horizontal scrolling too
[10:02] <NET||abuse> yup :)
[10:03] <popey> Apacheuk: ya
[10:03] <popey> and no :)
[10:03] <AlanBell> that is awesome on the summit schedule
[10:03] <ali1234> seems like everyone stopped using lastfm in dec 2009?
[10:03] <ali1234> including me
[10:03] <Apacheuk> popey: :) that was my show prediction from the prediction show :)
[10:03] <ali1234> is that when they shut off streaming to uk
[10:03] <gord> too many people in wayland talk
[10:03] <ali1234> ?
[10:04] <gord> no, to europe
[10:04] <dutchie> ali1234: no, don't think so
[10:04] <dutchie> that was ~3 mo ago iirc
[10:04] <ali1234> well, everyone outside USA basically
[10:04] <gord> i used it for a long time, ubuntu one replaced it
[10:04] <dutchie> since they decided to give me a 3 month free subscription for some reason and that has now run out
[10:05] <ali1234> spotify replaced it for me
[10:05] <ali1234> but now they've got a limit too
[10:05] <bigcalm> Last FM is good for random tracks on a theme. Spotify is good for albums
[10:05] <NET||abuse> can't get spotify :( groove shark is my only option, but not real desktop app for it (:
[10:05] <gord> yeah my use case is different, i want to stream my own music not discover music i guess
[10:06] <ali1234> i don't want to deal with a music library ever again now
[10:06] <ali1234> certainly not one that i had to pay for
[10:06] <ali1234> it's bad enough that it can go up in smoke due to random computer failure
[10:07] <gord> i just throw up my music into u1
[10:07]  * dutchie likes having physical cds
[10:07] <ali1234> i don't like having physical CDs actually
[10:07] <dutchie> i think i am a dying breed
[10:07] <ali1234> they take up too much space
[10:07] <ali1234> i prefer it to buying mp3s online though
[10:07] <dutchie> i have an irrational distrust of spotify
[10:08] <gord> got rid of all mine after i finished ripping my music and moved house
[10:08] <oimon> what about listening to music in the car?
[10:08] <ali1234> if i could buy the whole artist backcatalogue on a read only microsd card, that would be ideal
[10:08] <gord> i mean, i still have the music and i have that music backed up, so don't need the cds
[10:08] <DJones> Just noticed this http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/netflix-chrome-plugin-will-bring-on-demand-video-to-linux ok, netflix isn't available in the uk yet, but could be interesting in future
[10:08] <oimon> not entirely legal though gord
[10:09] <gord> eh? what is not legal about it oimon?
[10:09] <ali1234> ask popey
[10:09] <gord> if cd's had copy protection it would be, because you are breaking the DMCA but thats not the case
[10:09] <oimon> gord: do you mean that you ripped your cds and then sold them?
[10:09] <ali1234> maybe that thing he's always on about only applies to dvds
[10:09] <popey> o_O
[10:10] <gord> oimon, oh god no
[10:10] <oimon> oh :D
[10:10] <gord> i ripped my cds and then put my cds in the bin
[10:10]  * AlanBell is not living in a country where the DMCA has any validity
[10:10] <popey> Its nothing to do with the DMCA
[10:10] <popey> It's not legal to rip CDs/DVDs in the UK.
[10:10] <AlanBell> yup
[10:10] <AlanBell> you can't put your CDs on your MP3 player
[10:11] <NET||abuse> in the UKI?
[10:11] <AlanBell> indeed
[10:11] <NET||abuse> I didn't realise, in Ireland here so
[10:11] <bigcalm> That's a shame
[10:11] <gord> president?
[10:11] <AlanBell> bet you can't in Ireland either
[10:11] <NET||abuse> similar rules will apply here, we mostly just copy you guys : )
[10:11] <oimon> i remember when i was young, the daily mail had a story about recording of tv programmes becoming illegal. i worried about it for about a year
[10:11] <ali1234> i remember that too
[10:11] <popey> heh
[10:12] <ali1234> i think there's a lay like you can't keep recorded tv shows for longer than 3 weeks or something
[10:12] <ali1234> a law that is
[10:12] <gord> if its illegal to copy data from a cd to somewhere else then just playing them is illegal
[10:12] <ali1234> or that was the law they brought in in the 80s
[10:12] <ali1234> no idea if it still exists
[10:12] <popey> gord: nope
[10:12] <bigcalm> If so, then my V+ box is being very naughty
[10:12] <popey> nope
[10:12] <oimon> just finished watching danish tv series the killing - best programme i ever saw
[10:12] <popey> you have a license via Virgin for what it does
[10:13] <ali1234> bigcalm: this was back in vhs days
[10:13] <NET||abuse> gord, playing is fine if you don't take advantage of the ananlogue loops, there's seperation of the potential to break a law and actually doing it that protects you
[10:13] <bigcalm> I see
[10:13] <AlanBell> gord: just because something is technically equivalent does not mean itis legally equivalent
[10:13] <bigcalm> And off the shelf DVRs?
[10:13] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping
[10:13] <popey> "In the United Kingdom, making a private copy of copyrighted media without the copyright owner's consent is illegal: this includes ripping music from a CD to a computer or digital music player"
[10:13] <ali1234> i wonder about freesat type stuff actually
[10:14] <popey> citations are there before anyone larts me for quoting wikipedia
[10:14] <ali1234> manufacturers have to meet a loooong list of requirements to put freesat on it
[10:14] <oimon> i love that my dvr has a usb port for copying/archiving to pc
[10:14] <ali1234> have bbc done that encryption thing with their eit data yet?
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: the freesat logo, yes
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: but Freesat works fine on my receiver, which isn't "official" freesat
[10:14] <oimon> the logos count for nothing
[10:14] <ali1234> yes, yes
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: (being in NL and all)
[10:14] <ali1234> the logo
[10:15] <ali1234> logos count for a lot
[10:15] <oimon> as proven by the digital tick case of the digifusion fvrt200 box
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> Sure, "red button" stuff doesn't work
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> but </care>
[10:15] <ali1234> you won't see a sat receiver in curries if it doesn't have freesat logo or sky logo on it
[10:15] <gord> ah, its one of those laws that doesn't actually matter
[10:15] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:15] <oimon> certain manufactureres used the tick and it didn't conform
[10:16] <oimon> all the customers lost out
[10:16] <gord> maybe i'll open a ripping facility in france, you send your cd's via royal mail, i rip them then send back a digital copy
[10:16] <ali1234> gord: a friend of mine wanted to set up that exact service
[10:16] <ali1234> concluded that CDs are too damn valuable to send by post
[10:17] <ali1234> perhaps valuable is the wrong word... "too expensive to replace" would be more like it
[10:17] <gord> lovefilm seems to do fine
[10:17] <ali1234> because it's not like you can resell them for anything like the cost to buy them
[10:18] <ali1234> lovefilm isn't dealing with retail purchased dvds
[10:18] <ali1234> if it cost then £16.99 every time one got lost or damaged in the post they would be screwed
[10:18] <ali1234> or £32.99 for the blu-ray
[10:19] <ali1234> also they're not shipping 100 in a big box
[10:19] <gord> well they have rental copies, i'm not sure how that affects the price
[10:19] <ali1234> someone's entire CD collection could represent an investment of several thousand pounds
[10:20] <oimon> bluray - what a con
[10:21] <gord> a con?
[10:21] <gord> i like bluray
[10:21] <ali1234> i like bluray too, when it's done right
[10:21] <ali1234> i don't like upscaled-from-dvd bluray releases
[10:21] <gord> i like HD, 25mbit content is great too
[10:21] <oimon> the prices of films on bluray are a ripoff
[10:21] <ali1234> yeah too expensive too
[10:21] <oimon> it's like when CD's came out, they were cheaper to produce than cassetes but were still more expensive
[10:21] <gord> eh, i get mine for around £20, i'm willing to pay that
[10:22] <ali1234> would have to be a damn good film for me to pay £20
[10:22] <oimon> even if the dvd is a tenner?
[10:22] <ali1234> yes
[10:22] <ali1234> because dvd quality looks poor now everyone has HD tvs
[10:22] <gord> dvd has horrible compression and at a terrible resolution, also you basically flip a coin on weather you are gonna get progressive or interlaced content. no thanks
[10:22] <kazade> ali1234, I really can't see the difference sat back on my sofa
[10:22] <oimon> i don't have surround sound or HD TV
[10:22] <ali1234> and sorry, but upscaling makes it look worse than just watching it on a SD CRT
[10:23] <gord> with dvd i just end up looking at the artifacts
[10:23] <ali1234> if you can't see the difference between HD and upscaled SD on a HDTV you must have extremely poor eyesight
[10:23] <ali1234> right
[10:23] <kazade> ali1234, it's probably that... I don't care
[10:23] <oimon> if you don't have HD TV then everything looks fine
[10:23] <gord> well, it could be that the TV is too small or too far away
[10:23] <ali1234> upscaling makes the artifacts must worse
[10:23] <oimon> did you ever look at SD TV and DVD and think , this sucks?
[10:24] <kazade> I've got a 32" HD TV with Sky HD... I regularly don't realize I'm not watching the HD versions of channels
[10:24] <oimon> it's only when you get HD telly that you see artifcats
[10:24] <kazade> obviously there *is* a difference, but I ain't paying an extra tener for it
[10:24] <ali1234> oimon: i have looked at SD content on a SD CRT next to a HD LCD, and the CRT looks fine, while the HDTV looks poor due to artifacts
[10:24] <gord> sky hd wasn't good last time i saw it, low bitrate :(
[10:24] <oimon> ali1234: right
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> BBC HD, BBC One HD, ITV HD and C4 HD look fine though
[10:25] <MartijnVdS> especially the BBC channels
[10:25] <oimon> i don't get it
[10:25] <ali1234> if you have a HDTV you need HD content otherwise it looks worse than SD on a SD screen
[10:25] <oimon> and the SD tellys are going to the skip even though they are great still
[10:25] <ali1234> they are not great
[10:25] <kazade> ali1234, it depends on the TV I think, some upscale REALLY badly
[10:25] <oimon> the only thing is i wish i could plug the laptop into the telly
[10:25] <kazade> I had to replace one that broke and the difference in upscaling was unreal
[10:26] <ali1234> it's just that you need content that matches the screen
[10:26] <kazade> ali1234, ideally yes, but I don't notice too much difference unless I'm looking at it (or am sat close to it)
[10:26] <kazade> *looking for it
[10:26] <ali1234> looking at it lol
[10:26] <gord> i saw a crt for the first time in years the other day, couldn't look at it, refresh rate hurt my eyes :(
[10:26] <kazade> I don't enjoy a film in SD any less than an HD one
[10:27] <ali1234> sorry but i do enjoy a film more in HD
[10:27] <ali1234> it's not that i don't enjoy SD
[10:27] <oimon> i've never seen one in HD, or 3D for that matter
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> \o/ HD snobbery
[10:27] <ali1234> i don't have to lookfor the artifacts either
[10:27] <oimon> i'm used to watching the stuff from iplayer
[10:27] <ali1234> they jump right out like a spelling mistake in a book
[10:28] <MartijnVdS> I have blu-rays that are full of black snow (that isn't film grain)
[10:29] <gord> animated stuff is well worth the HD
[10:29] <oimon> btw on a rather differnt topic, i'm choosing desktop PCs to last for the next 4 years..which processors do you recommend?
[10:29] <popey> http://supportdetails.com/ heh cute
[10:29] <oimon> i3? i5?
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Sandy Bridge i7-2600K
[10:29] <popey> i wouldnt buy a desktop
[10:29] <popey> :)
[10:29] <ali1234> popey: nice one, bookmarking that
[10:29]  * MartijnVdS is waiting for Ivy Bridge :)
[10:30] <oimon> desktops are more future proof and long lasting than other tech
[10:31] <popey> I'd buy an imac :)
[10:31] <kazade> oimon, +1
[10:31] <oimon> troll
[10:31] <popey> neh
[10:31] <ali1234> buy a mac pro
[10:31] <DJones> oimon: I've just bought an i3 laptop for home & got an i5 desktop at work, both with the same memory & I don't notice any speed difference except with a flash game (The i3 is considerably faster with that)
[10:31] <ali1234> not a imac
[10:31] <ali1234> geez
[10:31] <kazade> I've never bought a desktop PC..
[10:31] <popey> he said desktop
[10:31] <popey> :)
[10:31] <kazade> I just build them
[10:31] <oimon> DJones: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
[10:31] <ali1234> mac pro *is* a desktop
[10:31] <popey> oh, sorry
[10:31] <popey> misread
[10:31] <ali1234> unless you only count pcs where the whole case goes on the desk
[10:31] <oimon> at the moment they have core 2 duo e8400
[10:32] <popey> hah, the pedant definition of 'desktop'
[10:32] <oimon> which are plenty fast enough
[10:32] <oimon> OK: workstations
[10:32] <ali1234> mac pro is the only mac i'd ever buy, and i'd never buy it cos an equivalent pc is half the price
[10:32] <ali1234> so i guess my recommendation is spec a pc equivalent to a mac pro :)
[10:33] <ali1234> i'm sure someone out there has already done exactly that to troll mac users
[10:33] <dwatkins> ali1234: have you compared like with like?
[10:33] <oimon> wondering what we will be short of in 4yrs...RAM or CPU
[10:33] <ali1234> dwatkins: no, but have you seen the price of mac pro?
[10:33] <gord> power it looks like
[10:33] <kazade> I've just endlessly upgraded the same PC I bought in 1997 :)
[10:34] <gord> come on battery tech, improve already!
[10:34] <dwatkins> ali1234: yes, I bought one last year.
[10:34] <Psychobudgie> oi, I'm the one that trolls mac users
[10:34] <oimon> kazade: i have a p4 at home, runs on lucid nicely
[10:34] <kazade> oimon, mine is currently a AMD Athlon X2 3200+ I think (stopped caring a while back)
[10:34] <Psychobudgie> wouldn't you be better running lucid on the p4
[10:35] <ali1234> dwatkins: btw when i say equivalent PC, i mean one you build yourself from parts, and does not have a shiny alu case
[10:35] <kazade> oimon, obviously the whole system has been replaced since 97.. just incrementally
[10:35] <DJones> oimon: Just compared the two processors in the desktop & laptop, the desktop's benchmark is 50% faster than the laptop, but its not noticable (probably because the desktop has win 7 & the laptop has ubuntu) :)
[10:35] <oimon> the choice is prob cire i3-2100 or a i5-2400
[10:36] <oimon> DJones: yeah, strange ...i guess other things come into play such as drive speed etc
[10:36] <popey> Psychobudgie: you're slacking :)
[10:36] <Psychobudgie> popey, I know, it's the recession
[10:37] <popey> ahh
[10:37]  * popey chucks a penny in Psychobudgie's hat
[10:37] <Psychobudgie> nobody can afford to buy an overpriced 2005 PC running macOS these days
[10:38] <popey> for some people power isn't the primary reason
[10:38] <Psychobudgie> woohoo, a whole shiny penny, thanks mister, I can eat for a week now
[10:38] <oimon> price for me
[10:39] <oimon> needs to be < £500
[10:39] <Psychobudgie> popey, you aren't suggesting mac users are shallow and pretentious now?
[10:39] <popey> You're right, I'm not.
[10:39] <Psychobudgie> popey, I almost caused a war in here the last time I was misunderstood by some to be saying something like that but wasn't
[10:40] <Psychobudgie> cause, they aren't
[10:40] <popey> "they"
[10:40] <popey> where "they" == generalisation
[10:40] <Psychobudgie> sorry, substitute 'they' for 'prerentiou.....mac users'
[10:41] <popey> what about the non-pretentious users?
[10:41] <Psychobudgie> I dunno, I think he's at work, I'll call him later and ask
[10:42] <popey> Quick! brobostigon! change the subject!
[10:42] <Psychobudgie> seriously though, I used to own a mac back when they weren't fashion accessories
[10:42] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:43] <oimon> Psychobudgie: 1985?
[10:43] <Psychobudgie> 96ish
[10:43] <brobostigon> popey: huh ?
[10:43] <popey> blimey, and oimon thought _I_ was the troll
[10:44] <Psychobudgie> used it for controlling a sound desk
[10:44] <oimon> :D
[10:44] <oimon> mac os 9 sucked though didn't it?
[10:44] <oimon> perhaps thats cos i was using acorn RISC OS at the time, and everything else sucked by comparison
[10:44] <Psychobudgie> I wouldn't use the term sucked as it tends to upset users but it wasn't as bad as it could have been
[10:45]  * DJones changes the subject by wondering what he did with his Apple ][
[10:45] <Psychobudgie> see, I can spin most things positively despite what others say
[10:45] <oimon> i think i started this convo by asking which processor to buy for my staff
[10:45] <oimon> :S still no closer
[10:45] <Psychobudgie> oimon, what are you like
[10:46] <DJones> Just ask the staff which games they want to play and work around the best for that
[10:46] <oimon> DJones: they run linux :D
[10:46] <popey> I went to a car dealership yesterday. I saw KDE on the desktop
[10:46] <DJones> They can still play games
[10:46] <oimon> popey: car giant?
[10:46] <Psychobudgie> oimon, buy them all the cheapest pc you can find. Essentially all your staff are interested in are 'can I use facebook'
[10:46] <popey> no
[10:46] <DJones> popey: Did you get your clutch sorted?
[10:47] <popey> no, it's properly broken
[10:47] <popey> car needs MoT on friday so may be uneconomical to repair
[10:48] <Psychobudgie> buy a skateboard
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> Popey McFly
[10:48] <Psychobudgie> heheh
[10:48] <DJones> I need to get mine mot'd at the weekend, at least its just been serviced & checked over so should be ok
[10:48] <oimon> Psychobudgie: hardly any of them use facebook , mostly they use pine :D
[10:48] <oimon> a lot of them hate getting new stuff
[10:49] <Psychobudgie> in that case put gnome 3 on all the new machines, they'll love you for it
[10:49] <oimon> that's another bridge i'll have to cross one day
[10:49] <oimon> fortuantely we use RH based distro
[10:50] <oimon> so not for another few years
[10:51] <Psychobudgie> which distro?
[10:51] <oimon> scientific linux
[10:51] <Psychobudgie> thought you were going to say caldera for a moment
[10:51] <Psychobudgie> heh
[10:53] <oimon> the problem is with RH based stuff is that you end up rolloing your own packages a lot
[10:53] <Psychobudgie> um, quick question but why Cern Linux?
[10:53] <Psychobudgie> I understand why Cern use it, but why you?
[10:53] <oimon> i work in a university, it's really popular in scientific faculties
[10:54] <oimon> e.g. we run it on the HPC clusters too
[10:54] <Psychobudgie> fair enough
[10:54] <oimon> it's similar to centos
[10:54] <Psychobudgie> just checking it wasn't down to just hating your staff like the rest of us
[10:55] <Psychobudgie> If I could I would force mine to use windows me
[10:55] <Psychobudgie> or unity
[10:55] <oimon> i like my staff
[10:56] <Psychobudgie> darn it, sorry, couldn't help that, my brain was screaming 'don't type it' but I couldn't stop myself
[10:56] <oimon> i want them to do well :D they have an incredibly stable distro
[10:56] <oimon> except the packages are really old
[10:56] <Psychobudgie> I don't really hate my staff, just some of them
[10:56] <oimon> i'm thinking of changing distro
[10:56] <oimon> but then rhel6 came out, so i'm hanging on a bit longer
[10:57] <oimon> and rhel works really well with our infrastructure
[10:57] <oimon> ldap/nfs/kickstart etc
[10:57] <oimon> puppet
[10:58] <Psychobudgie> I tend to remain faithful to one distro until it gets to the point where it's pretty much unusable so I see where you are coming from
[11:01] <oimon> running a fully managed desktop in linux is an absolute joy..i've done windows in the past too and everything was a hassle
[11:03] <BigRedS> oimon: fully managed? As in active-directory style?
[11:03] <oimon> BigRedS: you reffering to win or lin?
[11:03] <BigRedS> well, both
[11:03] <BigRedS> wondering what you meant by 'fully managed'
[11:03] <oimon> i mean no admin rights
[11:03] <BigRedS> ohhhhh
[11:04] <oimon> IT staff only ones who install stuff
[11:04] <BigRedS> Ah yeah, I was wondering what you'd done to get the sorts of automation you have in AD onto Linux without hassle
[11:04] <BigRedS> but if you've not emulated AD, that'd be why there's no hassle :)
[11:04] <gord> netbook has gone insane
[11:05] <gord> clicking on channels closed them
[11:05] <bigcalm> gord: maybe it wants you to do some work?
[11:05] <gord> it closed work channels too ;)
[11:06] <gord> oh they are filming this, boo
[11:06] <ali1234> ok i did mac pro vs ebuyer: http://bit.ly/mmJMLA
[11:06] <oimon> just had a cold call from microsoft :-|
[11:06] <gord> clippy has gone rogue
[11:06] <ali1234> dwatkins: ^
[11:06] <oimon> they asked how many windows 7 and office 2010 we have
[11:07] <oimon> "as few as possible, good bye"
[11:08] <ali1234> i'm sure i forgot stuff though
[11:08] <popey> the OS :)
[11:08] <ali1234> ha
[11:08] <popey> 25 quid?
[11:08] <ali1234> i wouldn't use mac os x even if it was free
[11:08] <ali1234> i didn't include keyboard and mouse either
[11:09] <ali1234> because who wants to use a keyboard with wrong keymap and a mouse with only one button lol?
[11:09] <gord> osx is fairly cheep isn't it? i haven't looked but thats the impression i get
[11:09] <popey> it is
[11:09] <ali1234> it's certainly not £1500 for OS, kb and mouse anyway :)
[11:09] <popey> maintenance?
[11:09] <ali1234> none included
[11:10] <oimon> mac pro are sandy bridge now right?
[11:10] <ali1234> afaik sandy bridge is not for sale yet
[11:10] <bigcalm> Sounds like a porn star name
[11:11] <ali1234> oh wait i was thinking of ivy bridge
[11:11] <ali1234> which also sounds like a porn star name
[11:11] <popey> spooky
[11:11] <popey> first item in my twitter stream is someone saying "IvyBridge :-)"
[11:12]  * popey wondrs if Omer Akram is ali1234's alternate name
[11:14] <dwatkins> ali1234: thanks, i shall have a read
[11:16] <dwatkins> ali1234: I bought a Macbook Pro, I gather the Mac Pro desktop machines have very recent processors which can lead to them being rather expensive; there's also the support of course.
[11:17] <ali1234> sure
[11:18] <ali1234> but buying the very latest stuff has never been good value for money
[11:18] <ali1234> and i don't need support
[11:18] <ali1234> also don't go out and buy what i've put in that spread sheet and expect it to work
[11:19] <ali1234> i have no idea if the bits are compatible
[11:19] <ali1234> where i couldn't find equivalent i just picked the most expensive one i could find
[11:21] <BigRedS> the support and guarantee of compatibility is, I think, what many people who buy Apple stuff are willing to pay for
[11:22] <BigRedS> buying a Windows PC is _such_ a faff, especially if you're not really that interested in it
[11:22] <ali1234> yes this is very true
[11:22] <ali1234> but i am not many people
[11:23] <ali1234> when i say "i would never buy it" i literally mean that
[11:25] <popey> I love how people come up with reasons why people buy apple kit
[11:25] <popey> nobody has so far come up with the reasons why _I_ bought apple kit :D
[11:25] <ali1234> we all know it's because you hate freedom
[11:25] <popey> Oh yes. That.
[11:25] <bigcalm> popey: is it possible that you don't know why either?
[11:26] <popey> Oh I have very specific reasons :)
[11:26] <popey> they just aren't the reasons everyone else attributes :)
[11:26] <bigcalm> You want everything to be white
[11:26] <popey> Racist!
[11:26] <popey> etc
[11:26]  * bigcalm rolls his eyes
[11:26]  * popey rolls a six
[11:27] <bigcalm> http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/12/10/
[11:27] <exobuzz> popey, because you are a http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/mac.gif ? :)
[11:28] <bigcalm> Awww, that's wrong :)
[11:28] <exobuzz> hehe
[11:28] <exobuzz> great smiley for forums that
[11:28] <popey> haha
[11:29] <exobuzz> popey, you buy apple kit because it is competitively priced, well built, well designed, and looks great in the loo
[11:29] <exobuzz> ?
[11:29] <popey> So close.
[11:30] <bigcalm> It does what you want it to do
[11:30] <kaushal> hi
[11:30] <popey> For the one in the kitchen, at least one requirement was "it needs to fit in the gap"
[11:30] <kaushal> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[11:30] <kaushal> I dont see netboot.tar.gz
[11:30] <popey> i do
[11:30] <ali1234> me too
[11:30] <exobuzz> i have a tattoo of sir clive sinclair on my bottom, and because of this, I now buy spectrums. similar thing for you ? getting closer ?
[11:30] <bigcalm> I see it
[11:31] <kaushal> popey: are you referring to me ?
[11:31] <popey> netboot.tar.gz26-Apr-2010 00:03 12M
[11:31] <bigcalm> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/netboot.tar.gz
[11:31] <popey> yes kaushal
[11:31] <kaushal> ok
[11:31] <exobuzz> popey, filling gaps in kitchens? isnt that the job for a joggler ? :)
[11:31] <popey> its a big gap :)
[11:31] <bigcalm> Lots of jogglers?
[11:32] <bigcalm> A video wall of joggers
[11:32] <bigcalm> I can't imagine anything slower
[11:32] <exobuzz> a big gap? then there is no competion. you need a pdp-5 or similar.
[11:32] <bigcalm> popey: I like your terrorist watch. I had one as a kid. I think my mum still uses hers from the same period
[11:33] <exobuzz> popey, i take it the gap isnt big enough for a beer fridge? i cant see a apple device winning over additional storage for beer right ? :)
[11:33] <popey> http://twitpic.com/2yfuwn
[11:33] <popey> you can see the gap there
[11:33] <popey> filled
[11:34] <exobuzz> bigcalm, i skyped on the joggler the other day. was quite suprised at how usable it was
[11:34] <bigcalm> PINK!
[11:34] <bigcalm> exobuzz: with video?
[11:34] <exobuzz> bigcalm, yep
[11:34] <bigcalm> Cool
[11:34] <popey> heh, photo of my desk from 6 months ago...
[11:34] <popey> http://twitpic.com/377dng
[11:35] <popey> not much has moved
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> not even the bottle?
[11:35] <exobuzz> popey, nice pick. well the mac looks nice there
[11:35] <exobuzz> pic
[11:35] <bigcalm> I'm looking forward to getting my 89 quid android tablet, though I expect it to be as slow and aggonising to use as the joggler
[11:37] <exobuzz> popey, do you have a mac ini in the toilet ?
[11:37] <exobuzz> mini
[11:37] <popey> i have no mac minis
[11:38] <exobuzz> i have 3 and a bright blue imac
[11:38] <exobuzz> but dont tell anyone im a macw*****
[11:38] <oimon> i've never used my mac mini
[11:38] <oimon> it sits unloved on a shelf in my office...
[11:39] <exobuzz> here is one of mine http://www.exotica.org.uk/mediawiki/files/4/43/Macmini-rack.jpg
[11:39] <exobuzz> :)
[11:39] <oimon> exobuzz: please tell me that's at home and not in a company rack ;)
[11:39] <exobuzz> it's in telehouse facility in london docklands
[11:40] <exobuzz> heh
[11:40] <oimon> bigcalm: when's it arrive?
[11:40] <exobuzz> http://www.mythic-beasts.com/macmini.html
[11:40] <BigRedS> yeah, I've known several people shove mac minis into racks
[11:40] <bigcalm> oimon: I was expecting it to ship at the end of this month, but it looks like it's been pushed back to the begining of July
[11:40] <oimon> i thought july was the 2nd batch
[11:40] <kaushal> 16:07:04 (1.74 MB/s) - `netboot.tar.gz' saved [45/45]
[11:41] <bigcalm> Aha
[11:41] <kaushal> something is wrong
[11:41] <bigcalm> Then I might see it at the end of this month :)
[11:41] <kaushal> bigcalm: Any clue ?>
[11:41] <oimon> mind you, after i saw that android tablet, i discovered the asus transformer
[11:41] <bigcalm> kaushal: humm?
[11:42] <exobuzz> bigcalm, http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/download/file.php?id=19&mode=view (needs a wipe that joggler, i should have had a clean before making the pic)
[11:42] <exobuzz> thats the joggler with skype on jolios
[11:42] <bigcalm> Cool
[11:44] <bigcalm> exobuzz: having the power leads coiled up like that may be producing some unwanted EMF
[11:45] <exobuzz> thats just the webcam cord
[11:45] <bigcalm> (The macminis)
[11:45] <exobuzz> oh
[11:45] <exobuzz> sorry heh
[11:45] <bigcalm> No worries, I should have said in my line
[11:45] <exobuzz> the mac minis are shielded mind
[11:46] <bigcalm> I guess
[11:46] <exobuzz> not in my control anyway. not my rack just i rent the space
[11:46] <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
[11:47] <exobuzz> that machine isnt technically there anymore, since the hd died. im actually on my 3rd mac mini. had some bad luck with them. hd, then failed ram or something, now on the 3rd one. heh
[11:52] <bigcalm> :(
[11:52] <oimon> ebuyer are trying to add a free "Webroot Internet Security Essentials" to my basket when buying a linux acer revo
[11:52]  * bigcalm sticks with Bytemark
[11:55] <oimon> "Password cannot contain non-alphanumeric characters" :S
[11:56] <oimon> ebuyer fail
[12:16] <oimon> can anyone explain what dialog(ue) sheets are?
[12:16] <oimon> ‘dialog sheets’ coming to Ubuntu 11.10 http://goo.gl/fb/fWX6f
[12:17] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Dialogs that drop down from the title bar?
[12:18] <oimon> think i'm being dumb but i still don't get it .
[12:21] <oimon> i guess they mean that you won't lose a file-open type window anymore
[12:21] <DJones> Arg.. After getting a new 22" widescrenn at work, I thought it would be great having all the extra screen space over a 17" screen, but now it feels like theres too much space
[12:22] <DJones> But, NO, I'm not giving it up
[12:30] <popey> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/uupc
[12:30] <popey> that work for anyone else?
[12:31] <oimon> aaagh popey naked in his kitchen!
[12:31] <popey> haha
[12:32] <oimon> yes seems to be fine
[12:32] <czajkowski> aloha
[12:33] <popey> yo
[12:33] <czajkowski> popey: so never going on uupc now :p
[12:33] <popey> haha
[12:37] <DJones> Works for me, although a bit of a dodgy advert with blue people
[12:38] <Apacheuk> popey: you have any idea as to how much bandwidth you using... say per hour?
[12:38] <oimon> oh no ... http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/05/10/microsoft_windows_tv_adverts/
[12:38] <popey> no idea
[12:39] <popey> Apacheuk: but that webcam is configured to use 600kbs
[12:39] <popey> and I have 3Mb/s upstream
[12:40] <Apacheuk> and this is how I'm spending my lunch break :)
[12:40] <popey> lol
[12:40] <Apacheuk> along with 8 others
[12:40] <popey> i should go and wave
[12:40] <Apacheuk> can't you make it do something
[12:43] <Apacheuk> popey: what time is the recording tonight?
[12:44] <Apacheuk> now I want a cream egg
[12:46] <popey> 2030
[12:47] <ali1234> so.......
[12:47] <ali1234> i need to download about 80GB of data from a linux server
[12:48] <ali1234> i need something that will do rsync over night or something
[12:48] <popey> rsync :)
[12:48] <ali1234> rsync has a option to do that?
[12:48] <popey> to do what?
[12:48] <popey> cron it
[12:49] <ali1234> how do i kill it though?
[12:49] <popey> or if you are worried about bandwidth it has a rate limiting option
[12:49] <popey> just kill it
[12:49] <popey> it will carry on the next time you start it
[12:49] <ali1234> i need it to run only between 11pm and 8am
[12:49] <ali1234> does it resume partial files?
[12:49] <popey> pkill rsync
[12:50] <popey> yes
[12:50] <ali1234> all good then
[12:50] <NET||abuse> hey guys. having trouble with a nas box, Iceybox 4220-B, i installed screen on it but when i run it, it says no available PTY
[12:50] <ali1234> oh there is one small problem
[12:50] <ali1234> rsync exhausts the vps memory if i try to use it
[12:50] <popey> NET||abuse: did you ssh then su?
[12:50] <NET||abuse> popey, :P actuallly this isn' ubuntu
[12:50] <popey> ali1234: put a small private webserver up and wget it?
[12:51] <ali1234> i need to fetch 80Gb of >1Kb files
[12:51] <NET||abuse> so i'm "admin" on the NAS's embeded linux OS.
[12:51] <ali1234> i mean <1Kb
[12:51] <popey> ali1234: wget -m --no-parent http://foo/bar/baz/
[12:51] <ali1234> i need to keep it in sync from now on as well
[12:52] <ali1234> tbh i don't trust wget
[12:52] <ali1234> to not mangle all the filenames
[12:53] <popey> scp then
[12:53] <ali1234> ha ha ha ah ahha haha good one
[12:53] <popey> :)
[12:54] <ali1234> doing ls -lR in the directory i need to sync
[12:54] <ali1234> i reckon it will take at least an hour, probably more
[12:54] <ali1234> (i redirected it to a file)
[12:55] <ali1234> see the problem i have is someone asked me to make them a private "wayback machine" and i did
[12:55] <ali1234> and it grows in a ridiculous way
[12:57] <oimon> ali1234: which OS does the server run?
[12:57] <ali1234> unlike the original it polls pages every day and it saves absolutely everything by pushing the transfer through a proxy
[12:57] <ali1234> oimon: it runs hardy iirc
[12:57] <oimon> there was a bug in rsync which exhausts the memory
[12:57] <ali1234> yes, been there, done that
[12:57] <ali1234> even with the bug fixed it still uses an insane amount of memory
[12:57] <oimon> oh
[12:57] <ali1234> because even with the bug fixed rsync still keeps the whole file list in ram before it starts to transfer anything
[12:57] <oimon> i can rsync milions of files no problem now
[12:58] <oimon> AFAIK that's what the patch was supposed to fix
[12:58] <ali1234> i'll run wc on the ls -lR when it finishes
[12:58] <ali1234> maybe there was another bug :)
[12:59] <ali1234> i had to do some crazy hacks to get this thing to work
[13:00] <ali1234> like build my own lib32 by hand to make flashplugin work properly
[13:00] <oimon> http://rsync.samba.org/FAQ.html#4
[13:00] <oimon>  It also introduced an incremental recursion mode that builds the file list in chunks and holds each chunk in memory only as long as it is needed. This mode dramatically reduces memory usage, but it only works provided that both sides are 3.0.0 or newer and certain options that rsync currently can't handle in this mode are not being used.
[13:00] <ali1234> cooooool
[13:00] <ali1234> ls -lR is 50mb already and nowhere near finished
[13:03] <popey> ali1234: rsync 3?
[13:03] <popey> oh
[13:03] <popey> tar it up?
[13:03] <popey> :)
[13:03] <ali1234> i'm only doing this because the server is full
[13:04] <Azelphur> Is there anything besides iptables that could block huge IP ranges?
[13:04] <Azelphur> Also, iptables --list would show if iptables was blocking any IPs, right?
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> your ISP could
[13:05] <oimon> also, which services? /etc/hosts.deny could be blocking stuff
[13:05] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS, yea, I'm trying to prove that they are :P
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: mtr :)
[13:05] <ali1234> but what if they are not?
[13:06] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS, makes it to the last hop, host says it could be a firewall on my box
[13:06] <Azelphur> so I want to rule that out
[13:06] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS, http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1047113 traceroutes :p
[13:07] <Azelphur> since then I've been scanning IRC channels and randomly asking optimum online users to ping my server, it's been 100% failure rate. Pretty much anyone on optimum online has the same issue.
[13:07] <dogmatic69> does anyone know why sudo apt-get remove mysql- would want to remove cherokee?
[13:07] <dogmatic69> http://pastebin.com/F9Bz027G
[13:07] <dogmatic69> edit: remove mysql-*
[13:08] <ali1234> Azelphur: your traceroutes make no sense
[13:08] <Azelphur> that's fun :D
[13:09] <Azelphur> ali1234, yet there they are, I did them while VNC'd into an optimum online user, so they are what they are :)
[13:09] <ali1234> the trace from user
[13:10] <popey> is optimum online the isp that has the issue?
[13:10] <Azelphur> popey, yep
[13:10] <popey> sounds like the same issue I had
[13:10] <Azelphur> popey, I scanned a bunch of channels for *.dyn.optonline.net and pm'd them asking to ping me, 100% fail so far
[13:10] <popey> (which I did say the other day) :D
[13:10] <Azelphur> popey, fun, what was your issue?
[13:10] <Azelphur> ali1234, what doesn't make sense about it?
[13:10] <oimon> traceroute is UDP traffic
[13:10] <popey> I suspect it's due to the way your ISP has carved up the netblocks
[13:11] <ali1234> Azelphur: it doesn't contain their ip
[13:11] <ali1234> Azelphur: but it does start with 10 address
[13:11] <Azelphur> so it doesn't, that's weird
[13:12] <ali1234> then in your traceroute
[13:13] <ali1234> the first response you get looks like a DSL hostname
[13:13] <popey> Azelphur: you said something about a VPN the other day
[13:13] <Azelphur> popey, yea, if he uses a VPN he can get to my site, that's how he got to my site to originally contact me about the issue :)
[13:13] <Azelphur> popey, I verified his IP before I ran that traceroute.
[13:13] <ali1234> how did you verify it?
[13:14] <Azelphur> ali1234, loaded up my own website while watching access.log
[13:14] <ali1234> but how did he access it ?
[13:14] <Azelphur> I accessed it while on remote desktop, using chrome
[13:14] <popey> so it worked?
[13:14] <ali1234> but how if it doesn't work?
[13:14] <Azelphur> sorry, different website host
[13:14] <Azelphur> I have multiple boxes :P
[13:14] <ali1234> ok
[13:14] <Azelphur> he can connect to my VPS in england fine, that's what I used to verify
[13:14] <popey> i reckon its the netblock issue
[13:14] <ali1234> that's not 100% reliable btw
[13:15] <Azelphur> popey, netblock issue?
[13:15] <popey> the way your isp has divided up the IP addresses
[13:15] <popey> your host is .242
[13:15] <popey> I bet the customer can get to .241 and .243 just fine
[13:15] <popey> (assuming they exist and are allocated)
[13:16] <ali1234> how is that even possible?
[13:16] <Azelphur> nah, he cant connect to my servers alternative ip addresses
[13:16] <popey> which are?
[13:16] <popey> give me all the addresses he cant get to
[13:16] <Azelphur> however he does seem able to connect to others servers in the same
[13:16] <Azelphur> dc
[13:16] <popey> yes, thats what I'd expect
[13:16] <popey> what addresses can he not get to?
[13:17] <Azelphur> popey we tester fun.azelphur.com and azelphur.com
[13:17] <Azelphur> tested* phone typing \o/
[13:17] <oimon> fun.az has a 69.x.x.x address
[13:17] <Azelphur> yea exactly
[13:17] <ali1234> Azelphur:
[13:17] <oimon> i guess it's a vlan routing issue
[13:18] <oimon> he is originating from the same DC
[13:18] <ali1234> Azelphur: you tracerouted FROM fun?
[13:18] <Azelphur> ali1234 nope, good idea
[13:18] <ali1234> no, you did
[13:18] <ali1234> in your logs
[13:18] <Azelphur> fun == azelphur.com
[13:18] <ali1234> that's the one and only response
[13:18] <Azelphur> they are the same box
[13:18] <oimon> also, use tcptraceroute instead of traceroute since some routers block UDP traffic
[13:18] <Azelphur> just different ips
[13:18] <ali1234> but they have a different ip
[13:19] <Azelphur> yea the box has 16 ips
[13:19] <Azelphur> in 2 ranges
[13:19] <ali1234> when you did traceroute from server to user
[13:19] <Azelphur> in the forum thread
[13:19] <ali1234> the one and only response you got came from the fun IP
[13:19] <popey> hahah
[13:19] <Azelphur> wtf
[13:19] <ali1234> which is why i didn't understand it
[13:19] <Azelphur> thats messed up haha
[13:19] <ali1234> because you did a trace *TO* the main one
[13:19] <Azelphur> so im routing traffic through myself?
[13:19] <ali1234> no
[13:19] <ali1234> it's just the first hop
[13:20] <popey> why on earth do you have two public IP's on the same box?
[13:20] <popey> in completely different netblocks?
[13:21] <Laney> redundancy
[13:21] <oimon> wow i just cracked open an easter egg and there are smarties inside...when i was little, the smarties came seaparate :D
[13:21] <popey> yeah, no single points of failure there :)
[13:21] <Azelphur> popey because thats just how i was allocated them
[13:21] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[13:21] <Laney> if one route goes down, the other can carry on working
[13:22] <Laney> discaleimr I have not read the conversation ;-)
[13:22] <Laney> dislcaimer i cannot spell that wod
[13:22] <Laney> or the word 'word'
[13:22] <popey> fail
[13:22] <Azelphur> popey, just need more ips for all the services running on there, bought another 8, they allocated me some random 69 range :D
[13:22] <Azelphur> ali1234, why would traceroutes first hop not be the default interface?
[13:23] <ali1234> that must be the default interface
[13:23] <ali1234> it doesn't really matter
[13:23] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Google IO predictions - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/05/google-io-predictions/
[13:23] <oimon> hmmm Azelphur what is the service delivered over? leased line or broadband
[13:23] <ali1234> when you're sending the source ip is pretty much irrelevant
[13:23] <Azelphur> oimon, my server is on 100mbps fiber
[13:23] <Azelphur> ali1234, it's not the default interface
[13:24] <ali1234> ls -lR is still running btw, now 300mb
[13:24] <ali1234> Azelphur: what is the default interface?
[13:24] <Azelphur> eth0 204.145.82.242 is the default interface
[13:24] <Azelphur> 69.160.254.177 is eth0:4 lol
[13:24] <ali1234> thats the same interface
[13:24] <oimon> i had a 100mb connection which had a pair of addresses , plus the 16 address for me to use - is it the same situation?
[13:25] <ali1234> that's the point
[13:25] <Azelphur> ok :p
[13:25] <ali1234> 1 interface multiple ips
[13:25] <ali1234> which one you get when you ask for "the ip of eth0" really doesn't matter
[13:25] <Azelphur> what's it doing though, just picking one randomly?
[13:25] <ali1234> they are all equally valid
[13:25] <Azelphur> yea, true
[13:25] <ali1234> yeah randomly, pretty much
[13:25] <Azelphur> ok :p
[13:25] <Azelphur> oimon, I'll try tcptraceroute now
[13:25] <oimon> are you sure the pair of addresses are not the point-to-point connections?
[13:26] <Azelphur> oimon, huh?
[13:26] <Azelphur> oimon, tcptraceroute produces the same result as the udp traceroute :p
[13:27] <oimon> how many address in the 204.x range do you have, and how many in the 69.x range
[13:28] <Azelphur> oimon, http://pastebin.com/RGAgS55B
[13:29] <ali1234> Azelphur: so *none* of those addresses works?
[13:29] <oimon> your netmask looks wrong
[13:29] <oimon> eth0 has netmask 255.255.255.248 but eth0:0,1,2,3 have 255.255.255.0
[13:29] <Azelphur> ali1234, from what I can see, yes. next time my optonline user comes online I'll ask him to ping each one individually
[13:29] <ali1234> that does look a bit odd
[13:29] <Azelphur> interesting o.O
[13:30] <Azelphur> for the other interfaces I'm just doing sudo ifconfig eth0:0 204.145.82.243 up
[13:30] <Azelphur> so maybe that doesn't set the netmask right
[13:30] <oimon> similarly, i'd be surprised if the 69.x addresses are on a 255.0.0.0 , most liekly they have been carved up into smaller netmasks
[13:31] <ali1234> Azelphur: it doesn't
[13:31] <Azelphur> that's why that's weird then :p
[13:31] <ali1234> and that may be related
[13:31] <oimon> i think it is
[13:31] <ali1234> in fact it 100% IS realted
[13:31] <ali1234> problem solved
[13:31] <Azelphur> really?
[13:31] <Azelphur> o.O
[13:31] <ali1234> your guy is on a 69 IP too
[13:32] <ali1234> your machine thinks you and him are on same subnet cos all your 69 IPs are on 255.0.0.0
[13:32] <Azelphur> so 69.* can't connect
[13:32] <ali1234> thus, it doesn't send packets to him to the router
[13:32] <Azelphur> haha!
[13:32] <ali1234> problem solved
[13:32] <Azelphur> awesome
[13:32] <oimon> the invoice is in the post
[13:32] <Azelphur> so how do I set this up properly?
[13:32] <Azelphur> haha
[13:32] <oimon> what's in /etc/network/interfaces?
[13:33] <ali1234> well assuming the 69 netmask is same
[13:33] <ali1234> sudo ifconfig eth0:0 204.145.82.243 nm 255.255.255.248 up
[13:33] <ali1234> etc
[13:33] <Azelphur> oimon, http://pastebin.com/nHyRdfN7
[13:34] <Laney> \o/ guy giving the keynot just said 'ecosphere'
[13:34] <popey> :)
[13:35] <exobuzz> are ubuntu trying to make their distributions names harder and harder to spell ?
[13:35] <exobuzz> Oneiric Ocelot .... blimey
[13:36] <Azelphur> haha
[13:36] <DJones> exobuzz: Perky penguin will be an easy one to spell
[13:36] <exobuzz> yay
[13:39] <oimon> Azelphur: are you all good now?
[13:39] <Azelphur> oimon, I'm just finding the gateway address for my 69.* IP's, then I'll take one of the unused IP's down and fix it, see if the user can connect to it
[13:40] <ali1234> gateway should be the same?
[13:40] <oimon> you should be able to fix it on the fly with the ifconfig command, and fix later in /etc/network/interfaces
[13:40] <ali1234> oh wait ignore that
[13:40] <ali1234> that's dumb :)
[13:40] <oimon> Microsoft on Tuesday announced they would buy Skype Global for $8.5 billion in cash — the largest acquisition ever for the technology giant :-S
[13:40] <ali1234> you have to put netmask not nm
[13:43] <Azelphur> ali1234, yea, it is xD
[13:44] <ali1234> although
[13:44] <ali1234> hmm
[13:44] <ali1234> yeah i see
[13:45] <Azelphur> oimon / ali1234  yep, that fixed it
[13:45] <ali1234> when you try to connect a 69 address it's going to try to use the 69 interface
[13:45] <Azelphur> now to fix all the other interfaces :D
[13:45] <oimon> \o/
[13:45] <ali1234> which is why the traceroute said what it said
[13:50] <Azelphur> yep, fixed all my netmasks and now my optimum online friend can access everything \o/
[13:50] <Azelphur> woo
[13:53] <oimon> so ebay made a $6bn profit on skype ?
[13:58] <ali1234> oimon: assuming the net profit/loss of running it was 0
[13:59] <oimon> ali1234: yes, i don't know their P&L but assuming they at least broke even, they did well
[13:59] <ali1234> yeah
[13:59] <krimzon2> so who's got skype now?
[13:59] <oimon> there's always a mug like microsoft who will buy the fully matured company
[13:59] <oimon> MS
[13:59] <ali1234> i'm not sure it's worth that much tbh
[14:00] <oimon> hmmm my thunderbird's become unresponsive..shouldn't have clicked the folder with 33000 unread messages
[14:01] <krimzon2> ahh, maybe they can swap those annoying magnetic borders for scrollbars that don't look the same as any other window's
[14:01] <krimzon2> not that I've run skype on windows for a while
[14:01] <oimon> i don't use skype, although i have it installed.
[14:02] <oimon> i don't really phone people either lol
[14:06] <ali1234> i use the n900 for skype
[14:06] <bigcalm> Anybody care to help with a MySQL question? :) http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/605665/
[14:06] <ali1234> people call me on skype and i don't even realise
[14:06] <ali1234> i just wonder why i'm getting a phone call on a mobile with no sim in it
[14:07] <oimon> lol
[14:08] <Azelphur> haha, that should make my game servers infinitely more popular
[14:08] <Azelphur> 69.* is in and around NY, which is where players will get insanely low pings and thus play on my server more :P
[14:09] <oimon> Azelphur: for fun or profit?
[14:09] <oimon> or both :P
[14:09] <Azelphur> I wish it was both, but unfortunately just fun atm :P
[14:09] <Azelphur> maybe profit in the future :D
[14:10] <dwatkins> What happened to 69.*, Azelphur?
[14:10] <Azelphur> dwatkins, anyone in the 69.* range couldn't connect to my servers, haha
[14:10] <Azelphur> and probably 204.* too
[14:10] <ali1234> dwatkins: blocked due to bad network config
[14:11] <dwatkins> oops, Azelphur
[14:11] <ali1234> Azelphur: those interface had 255.255.255.0 netmask which means you only blocked people on 204.x.y.*
[14:11] <oimon> i used to work in a company that used a 159.x.x.x network internally, even though it was a public IP. people regularly wondered why they couldn't get to the guardian website and others
[14:11] <ali1234> where x and y are whatever your IP is
[14:11] <Azelphur> oops indeed, it's been like that since last year
[14:11] <Azelphur> I see
[14:12] <Azelphur> all the masks are 255.255.255.248 now \o/
[14:12] <ali1234> Azelphur: it works like this: destination IP is bitwise and'd with netmask, if that equals your IP and'd with netmask, the packet is sent directly to destination IP, otherwise it is forwarded to default gateway
[14:12] <ali1234> that's everything you need to know abut IP basically :)
[14:13] <bigcalm> *glazed look*
[14:13] <Azelphur> yea, I know what subnet masks are :D
[14:13] <Azelphur> just didn't know what my old subnet mask was lol
[14:14] <ali1234> so you would be getting the packets, but the replies would never get to the first hop
[14:14] <ali1234> also that's why they time out instead of getting a blocked response from first router or something
[14:15] <dwatkins> I'd like to see this MS-buying-skype story turn into one about them discovering just how many people run Linux [90% of the time, despite having windows]
[14:15] <ali1234> um wat?
[14:16] <ali1234> i'm sure MS would have asked questions like this before buying
[14:16] <ali1234> "how many linux users you got?" "oh, about 10"
[14:16] <dwatkins> they probably knew already from the browser stats, I guess
[14:17] <dwatkins> that's fairly indicative
[14:17] <dwatkins> according to w3schools, Linux makes up just over 5% over internet users, Mac users are just over 8%.
[14:19] <ali1234> internet users or w3schools users?
[14:19] <BigRedS> w3schools users
[14:20] <BigRedS> every so often someone decides to pretend teh two are equivalent
[14:20] <ali1234> ls -lR finished - got a 700mb file
[14:20] <oimon> w3schools contains amongst other things, a load of ASP and other MS centric stuff
[14:20] <ali1234> but it's still targetted at developers
[14:20] <ali1234> i'd be more interested in facebook stats
[14:20] <ali1234> much more representative
[14:21] <ali1234> hmm... 14 million files
[14:21] <BigRedS> ali1234: I tend to go with Slashdot stats
[14:21] <BigRedS> makes me feel less weird
[14:22] <ali1234> meh, slashdot is pretty small site these days
[14:22] <oimon> where are the fb and slashdot stats ?
[14:22] <ali1234> no idea
[14:23] <ali1234> http://www.facebook.com/press/info.php?statistics
[14:23] <ali1234> nothing about OS on there though
[14:23] <BigRedS> dunno, I just see /.'s every so often
[14:24] <ali1234> http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=94523840758
[14:24] <ali1234> mac: 7% linux: 2%
[14:25] <ali1234> http://www.currybet.net/cbet_blog/2005/10/the-software-used-to-access-th-1.php <- stats for BBC
[14:25] <oimon> 74% still using Windows XP :-O
[14:25] <ali1234> linux: 0.41%
[14:25] <ali1234> that one is really old though
[14:25] <oimon> ahem, 2005
[14:25] <ali1234> (facebook stats from 2009 too)
[14:26] <ali1234> 5% quoted by w3schools seems plausible
[14:27] <oimon> ali1234: the facebook link wasn't facebook stats though
[14:27] <ali1234> oh?
[14:27] <ali1234> oh it's just some random person's facebook site?
[14:27] <oimon> seems so
[14:27] <ali1234> oops lol
[14:28] <BigRedS> I think it's a hosting company's
[14:30] <ali1234> oh wow who remembers this thing: http://i.imgur.com/NX7SM.jpg
[14:31] <popey> heh
[14:31] <DJones> Yep
[14:31] <ali1234> sorry to be random, i was just updating my website stats and that picture was on a page which also links to my site
[14:32] <oimon> i found a commodore amiga in someon's office the other day ...he had gone to the effort of bringing it to work to have on his shelf :S
[14:32] <ali1234> big shelf, unless it was a a600
[14:32] <oimon> a500
[14:32] <DJones> oimon: Probably more like his other half had told him to get rid of that piece of antique/junk, its just gathering dust
[14:33] <oimon> i think he was a basement dwelling oddbod
[14:33] <oimon> although i must admit, i've considered it too
[14:33] <oimon> spreading random obsolete technical items around my room
[14:33] <DJones> oimon: The taking junk to work to store, or being the basement dwelling oddbod
[14:34] <oimon> ;)
[14:34] <DJones> I'd take my junk to work, but thats were most of it came originally
[14:34] <oimon> once we discovered a guy had brought over 50 books and various suits, coats, shoes etc to a cramped openplan office
[14:35] <dwatkins> oimon: two of my colleagues have a window-sill full of either classic Macs or iMacs
[14:36] <DJones> Where I used to work, the manager had a locked cupboard which only he had the key to.  When he was off sick, people were looking for things and had to cut the padlock off it thinking they might find work related things there, turned out to be his stash of "adult magazines" & Max Mosely style equipment
[14:36] <dwatkins> I really wanted an Amiga when I was younger.
[14:36] <Azelphur> hmm, my inspiron duo seems to have taken a step in the wrong direction, it says my wifi is disabled by a hardware switch, but my laptop doesn't have a wifi hardware switch.
[14:36] <dwatkins> DJones: the mind boggles as to the things some people don't leave at home
[14:37] <ali1234> Azelphur: i've seen dells do that in windows :(
[14:37] <Azelphur> fun
[14:37] <oimon> DJones: what type of comapny? ann summers?
[14:37] <Azelphur> wonder if it's disabled in the bios o.o
[14:38] <DJones> dwatkins: Yeah, specially as he got arrested a while later for indecent acts in the gents public toilets (But, too much detail & too much off topic)
[14:38] <DJones> oimon: He was a pensions advisor
[14:38] <oimon> hmm
[14:38] <dwatkins> DJones: enough said, I won't recount how this reminds me of an ex-colleague.
[14:38]  * dwatkins would like to point out he has always worked in technical support
[14:39] <oimon> once i was trawling the squid logs in real time and saw a dude in the legal department looking at all sorts of nastiness
[14:39] <oimon> bizarro stuff i'd never dream of
[14:39] <oimon> the thing is, i could see him from where i was sitting..and he just had a poker face on
[14:40] <DJones> oimon: Written warning or retained for blackmail purposes
[14:40] <oimon> it was middle of the working day
[14:40] <oimon> retained
[14:40] <oimon> he was more trouble that it was worth
[14:41] <oimon> sometimes you don't wanna get involved unless the big boss wants the guy out
[14:46] <Azelphur> there, fixed the wifi by enabling and disabling it in the bios, weird.
[14:48] <oimon> how can i get banshee to find all my cover art? seems to be loads still missing
[14:49] <ali1234> run the plugin to fix mp3 tags
[14:50] <oimon> ali1234: you mean the metadatare fixer?
[14:51] <ali1234> yeah
[14:51] <ali1234> you might want to enable the option that writes changes out to the fils first
[14:51] <ali1234> otherwise it just goes in some db
[14:53] <oimon> :( it never quite works how i want it
[14:53] <oimon> plus the stupid thing where you get the songs entered twice
[14:54] <oimon> maybe i have weird music taste and amazon etc don't have the cover art
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> oimon: doubtful
[14:55] <oimon> ah, it seems to collect them when i click the album
[14:55] <oimon> although loads of duplicate song entries
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> yeah I get loads of duplicates as well
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> from my U1MS
[14:56] <oimon> where every song gets entered twice , even though there only exists one file?
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> yes
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> oh not all
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> just most
[14:57] <davmor2> oimon: in banshee?
[14:57] <davmor2> oimon: known bug if it is banshee
[14:59] <oimon> davmor2: yeah, banshee http://i.imgur.com/Jzyk8.png
[15:00] <oimon> btw i'm not responsible for those kylie minogue and jamelia songs...must be on a compilation of my wife's ...i wish they would hurry up and implement an Album artist browser :(
[15:00] <ali1234> me too
[15:00] <ali1234> i'm subbed to that bug, someone is working on it
[15:01] <oimon> me too :D
[15:02] <oimon> bugzilla bug 540873
[15:02] <oimon> calm down botty
[15:10] <Adriannom> lo
[15:10] <popey> lo
[15:11] <Adriannom> just bought a VPS and there are thousands of failed login attempts per day...  is that...  normal?
[15:11] <popey> yes
[15:11] <bigcalm> Yep
[15:11] <Adriannom> good
[15:11] <popey> have secure passwords, or use keys to logon and disable password logons
[15:11] <bigcalm> Adriannom: move sshd to a different port
[15:11] <popey> and/or use denyhosts
[15:11] <popey> and/or move ssh to another port
[15:11] <popey> and/or use port knocking
[15:11] <Adriannom> i think i'll do some of those things, thanks :)
[15:12] <popey> :)
[15:13] <Adriannom> the only concern i have left now is that the host appears to store control panel passwords in plaintext :(
[15:15] <bigcalm> Adriannom: are you sure that's the control panel and not your web browser?
[15:15] <Adriannom> bigcalm, they ask for certain letters over the phone
[15:15] <bigcalm> Oh, I see
[15:17] <Adriannom> i'm on a knife's edge as to whether to try to get my money back.  they were hacked a while ago and forced everyone to change their passwords because they stored them in plaintext, but if they're still storing them that way then... :|
[15:19] <Adriannom> (fasthosts)
[15:20] <bigcalm> Ug
[15:20] <bigcalm> If you're with fasthosts, you'd be better off with Bytemark I think
[15:21] <oimon> davmor2: do you have a link to the banshee duplicate entries bug? i'm on v 2.0.0 and i could only find a link to a closed bug from 1.8
[15:23] <davmor2> oimon: one second
[15:24] <Adriannom> signed up to a 12 month contract, what do you reckon my chances are of getting my money back?  signe dup about 7 days ago
[15:25] <davmor2> oimon: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/778476 that was my original but then it effects imports too it turns out
[15:27] <oimon> davmor - thanks - i wonder if it's worth linking it to an upstream bug # in bugzilla
[15:28] <oimon> that's where the banshee bugs seem to be
[15:29] <oimon> possibly https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614171 ? lower comments say it's not limited to the library watcher either (i have that turned off)
[15:33] <oimon> i want to like banshee but there's some major bugs including freezes that really get on my wick
[15:34] <davmor2> oimon:  I think it has some great features but some huge bugs
[15:34] <oimon> yep
[15:35] <oimon> the devs seem to have a lot on their plate
[15:37] <oimon> davmor2: actually my song timings are always the same, just dupes
[15:38] <davmor2> oimon: yeah I think that is cd specific
[15:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu moves to OpenStack - away from Eucalyptus???
[15:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just got the press release in my email.
[15:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Budapest, 10th May, 2011: The Ubuntu project announces today that future versions of Ubuntu Cloud will use OpenStack as a foundation technology.
[15:41] <popey> not surprising
[15:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> no
[15:43] <safiyyah> hi guys I am having a PPA error, "
[15:43] <safiyyah> An unresolvable problem occurred while initialising the package information.
[15:43] <safiyyah> Please report this bug for the 'update-manager' package and try to include the following error message:
[15:43] <safiyyah> 'E:Type ‘n’ is not known on line 2 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/screenlets-ppa-lucid.list, E:The list of sources could not be read.'" the problem is when I check software sources I don't see it. Please help
[15:48] <oimon> what is the content of the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/screenlets-ppa-lucid.list file?
[15:52] <oimon> clementine music player is looking attractive right now
[15:59]  * DJones wonders whether the external IT support contractor really meant to leave cd with Nuke & Boot lying around on a desk
[16:05] <BigRedS> me wonders how you do it that way round
[16:05] <BigRedS> er s/^/\//
[16:08]  * oimon discovers that clementine also supports wii remote :D
[16:16] <andylockran> hey guys
[16:16] <andylockran> trying to setup an entropykey to work with egd
[16:16] <andylockran> I've got it listning on the external interface tcp 8888
[16:16] <andylockran> but I can't get egd-linux to connect to it
[16:25] <DJones> Does anybody use an ubuntu machine to access a windows machine that has logmein unstalled on it?  What method do you use, I've read that there's hamachi, but not sure of thats the same thing
[16:33]  * brobostigon decides after the discussion  ealier, to try denyhosts.
[16:44] <KrisDouglas> When did Ubuntu shipit close/
[16:44] <KrisDouglas> ?
[16:47] <oimon> a guy delivering some printers dropped them 10 feet down some steps. when i queried it with him , he suddenly "me no speaka di english"
[16:48] <DJones> KrisDouglas: I think it was about a month to 6 weeks ago
[16:50] <KrisDouglas> DJones, that is a nightmare
[16:50] <KrisDouglas> Our customers love ubuntu
[16:50] <DJones> !shipit
[16:51] <oimon> KrisDouglas: burn your own disks or buy them from canonical?
[16:51] <DJones> 5th April that blog post is dated
[16:51] <KrisDouglas> I'm gonna buy them from canonical
[16:51] <oimon> http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17
[16:52] <hamitron> do they sell single disks now?
[16:52] <DJones> Minimum looks to be packs of 5
[16:53] <hamitron> wtf, there is no 10.04 desktop one?
[16:53]  * hamitron sulks
[16:53] <oimon> obviously a mistake
[16:53] <oimon> since there is kubuntu 10.04
[16:54] <DJones> You'd think there would be as its LTS
[16:55] <hamitron> I was hoping they may have sold a single copy of 10.04 for 2 quid or something
[16:55] <hamitron> then i could get a shinny cd, and they could make a small profit
[16:55] <hamitron> ;)
[16:56] <hamitron> suppose, maybe the 10.04 cd there are just old stock
[16:57] <DJones> hamitron: Its still LTS though, people are still likely to want them.  Maybe they've run out of them & won't add them unless they get sufficient requests to produce morwe
[16:57] <DJones> more
[16:57] <davmor2> Gord where are you?
[16:58] <davmor2> gord. where are you even
[16:58] <oimon> how will sabfdl get his 200 million ubunters without the 1004 cd's in the shop?
[16:59] <oimon> argh i just clicked on the worst button in an application ever :(
[16:59] <hamitron> imo, limiting distribution of cd to people having to buy 5, isn't going to encourage anyway
[16:59] <hamitron> anyone
[17:00] <hamitron> and then not even having all versions
[17:03] <oimon> if you ever run clementine music player NEVER click on the hypnotoad
[17:05] <safiyyah> oimon,  the contents are:
[17:05] <safiyyah> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/screenlets/ppa/ubuntu lucid main
[17:05] <safiyyah> n
[17:05] <safiyyah> sorry I was busy sticking stuff on the keyboard
[17:06] <oimon> safiyyah: remove the n from the 2nd line
[17:06] <safiyyah> oimon, thanx
[17:06] <oimon> i.e. remove the bad 2nd line then run sudo apt-get update and you'll be fine
[17:07] <safiyyah> oimon, thanx I have done it :)
[17:08] <safiyyah> does anyone have experience installing MSOffice on PlayOnLinux
[17:08] <safiyyah> it keeps getting stuck on me
[17:14] <^aDaM> Good afternoon all :)
[17:14] <safiyyah> afternoon
[17:14] <^aDaM> :>
[17:39] <KrisDouglas> Just had a customer in saying their laptop was completely dead and not working. Plugged it in and it booted up absolutely fine. Turns out there was no power at their house. I seriously wonder how they didn't notice; considering the charger has a light on it.
[17:40] <shauno> had one of those last weekend.  "now press the power button ...".  you really don't expect them to happen in real life :/
[17:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - been so busy just read about Skype.
[17:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's the kiss of death then.
[17:43] <shauno> they claim they're not dropping support for other platforms .. but of course, that now depends on their definition of 'other platforms' :/
[17:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't mean for Linux per-se. More Microsoft's inability to make any money from on-line.
[17:49] <ging> because they're fools
[17:50] <ging> google and facebook surely prove the best way to make money from online is not to charge
[17:51] <ali1234> the reason microsoft never make any money online
[17:52] <ali1234> is because all they ever do is copy other people's products
[17:52] <ali1234> this doesn't work when you can't force people into using your version because it's just another website
[17:52] <KrisDouglas> or buy other people's products and bastardise them
[17:53] <ali1234> when they do that they are usually successful
[17:53] <ali1234> because they usually give the result away
[17:54] <hamitron> you can be sure they will put new features in the clients for certain platforms, missing out others that miss "Media Player Tech"
[17:55] <ali1234> well that wil destroy skype completely
[17:55] <ali1234> the only reason people use it is because it works in a way that none of the others do because of codec issues
[17:56] <ali1234> and firewall issues as well
[17:57] <hamitron> it could be annoying for users with devices and skype integrated
[17:57] <hamitron> tv's, psp, etc
[17:57] <ali1234> why?
[17:57] <hamitron> if they change something, it could break them
[17:57] <hamitron> :/
[17:57] <ali1234> and that would be the end of skype
[17:58] <hamitron> you reckon killing off PSP users would kill skype?
[17:58] <AlanBell> they have to be a little bit selective about which clients they break
[17:58] <ali1234> yes
[17:58] <AlanBell> they won't want to kill the PSP users
[17:58] <ali1234> but because skype is such a uniform system controlled by ... well skype
[17:58] <ali1234> they won't be able to do that
[17:59] <shauno> that's the whole point of skype for me.  I don't have to care if the other person is using windows, or their phone, or whatever
[17:59] <ali1234> it's not like there is 10 different implementations of a skype client
[17:59] <AlanBell> I wouldn't be surprised if there were some client updates and protocol bumps
[17:59] <ali1234> there's a few
[17:59] <hamitron> same AlanBell
[17:59] <ali1234> but those protocol versions exist for all platforms
[17:59] <AlanBell> for "security" reasons
[17:59] <ali1234> so if you kill all old skype versions
[18:00] <AlanBell> with some clients lagging behind others in the update cycle
[18:00] <ali1234> you block a large part of the network
[18:00] <hamitron> must people I know, never cared that MSN didn't work on linux at the time..... it was my fault for not using windows
[18:00] <AlanBell> I suspect they won't want to disconnect the linux clients though, because I suspect quite a few supernodes run linux
[18:01] <hamitron> yeh
[18:01] <brobostigon> what permissions doineed to give stuff in /var/www ?
[18:01] <AlanBell> brobostigon: www-data needs read access
[18:01] <AlanBell> it might need write access to some areas as appropriate
[18:02] <hamitron> I'm gonna start using the skype linux client for badness
[18:02] <brobostigon> AlanBell: umm, i am unsure how to achieve that.
[18:02] <hamitron> the more users on linux use it, the less of an excuse MS have to ignore it
[18:02] <hamitron> ;)
[18:02] <AlanBell> they won't care much about disconnecting linux clients temporarily from time to time except for the supernodes
[18:02] <hamitron> I'm sure :/
[18:02] <hamitron> but still like to try
[18:04] <AlanBell> it is all about the supernodes really
[18:04] <AlanBell> they can't afford a monoculture of supernodes
[18:04] <hamitron> but I like to moan and complain..... seems like a great thing to moan about \o/
[18:17] <safiyyah> just read up
[18:17] <safiyyah> what is happening with skype?
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> it's being bought by Microsoft
[18:19] <AlanBell> !permissions
[18:19] <safiyyah> oh dear
[18:19] <AlanBell> ^^ brobostigon
[18:20] <safiyyah> do we have a skype cross platform alternative?
[18:20] <AlanBell> not one with millions of users
[18:20] <safiyyah> plus people are not exactly switching to linux
[18:21] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, i figured out, how to chown www-data access to /var/www, however it is still saying "403 - forbidden".
[18:21] <safiyyah> the r simply upgrading windows
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> safiyyah: Google Talk :)
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> safiyyah: it has video, audio, chat
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> safiyyah: and it works with Empathy (on Ubuntu, out of the box)
[18:21] <AlanBell> brobostigon: do ls -l of the file you want to read
[18:23] <brobostigon> -rwxrwxrwx 1 root    root    3569 2011-05-10 11:45 index.lighttpd.html
[18:23] <brobostigon> drwxrwxrwx 4 ptaylor ptaylor 4096 2011-05-10 16:50 pivotx
[18:23] <brobostigon> AlanBell: that is the output.
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> World writeable? You scary man
[18:24] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh dear, not intentional, mymistake, :(
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "Are you sure you want those files to be world-writeable?"</reword>
[18:26] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i know the concequences. no worries.
[18:26] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and it didnt intentionall do that.
[18:26] <brobostigon> i*
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> Files in /var/www need to be readable by the "www-data" user (or whichever other user you're running your web server as)
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> Some directories might need to be world-writeable because of brain-dead PHP scripts
[18:28] <AlanBell> um yeah, rwxrwxrwx is not ideal
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> the +x bit might also confuse apache
[18:28] <AlanBell> but anyhow, the point is that isn't owned by www-data
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> making it think it's actually executable (CGI script)
[18:29] <hamitron> bbl, food
[18:29] <hamitron> :D
[18:29] <AlanBell> so chmod -x index.lighttpd.html
[18:29] <AlanBell> actually chmod ugo -x index.lighttpd.html
[18:29] <brobostigon> AlanBell: that html file i canreadfine,
[18:29] <AlanBell> to do it for user, group and other
[18:29] <AlanBell> then chown www-data: index.lighttpd.html
[18:30] <AlanBell> and chmod go -w index.lighttpd.html
[18:30] <AlanBell> and maybe chmod u -w index.lighttpd.html if you don't want the web server to be able to write to that file
[18:30] <AlanBell> the permissions are in three groups: user, group, other
[18:32] <brobostigon> AlanBell: i can pickup that html file fine, however it is the whole of  the pivotx folder, with seems to be giving me the forbidden error. so do we reallyneed tochange nything on tht html file?
[18:33] <exobuzz> nginx ftw ;-)
[18:33] <AlanBell> you need to reduce permissions as much as possible or nasty hackers will own your box
[18:33]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks the garage have lost my car...
[18:33] <AlanBell> however chown -R www-data: pivotx will sort you out as a starting point
[18:34] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: lost!!
[18:34] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ok ,what is the minimum permissions we canhave, and allow the whole of /var/www to bepickedup?
[18:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Well, they left the garage at about 16:30 to bring it here.
[18:34] <AlanBell> brobostigon: make www-data the owner of it all and give owner read only access
[18:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: you need slightly different perms for files and directories.
[18:35] <AlanBell> or you can make ptaylor the owner and put www-data in the same group and give the group read access
[18:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> files 644 is OK and dir 755
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> http://www.zzee.com/solutions/unix-permissions.shtml :)
[18:35]  * AlanBell does not talk about permissions in octal
[18:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> If the ownder is correct you could go for 600 and 700 files & dirs.
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> hmm octal
[18:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's less typing
[18:36] <AlanBell> the problem with octal is that people dont understand what it does
[18:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> I do.
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: but it's easy!
[18:36] <AlanBell> it is less typing for people who do understand what it does
[18:36] <brobostigon> umm, slow down, i cant keep up.
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> read(4), write(2), execute(1), just add them up
[18:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_permissions#Octal_notation
[18:37] <AlanBell> ok so the rwxrwxrwx stuff is three groups rwx for the owner rwx for the group rwx for everyone else
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> setuid(4), setgid(2), sticky(1) + 3x read(4), write(2), execute(1).. just add
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes... 777
[18:37] <brobostigon> AlanBell: umm, three sets of three,ok.
[18:38] <AlanBell> call them binary digits and r-- becomes 100(binary) which is 4(decimal) rwx is 111 (binary)which is 7 (decimal) etc
[18:39] <AlanBell> so rwx rwx rwx is three lots of 7, i.e. 777
[18:39] <brobostigon> ah, ummm, makes sense, i think,
[18:39] <AlanBell> so 644 is 110 100 100 or rw-r--r--
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> actually octal, not decimal :)
[18:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> The garage is also now closed. So I have no way of ascertaining the whereabouts of said car.
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> because they're groups of 3 bits, octal = easy
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> (it's like decimal with 2 fingers chopped off)
[18:40] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: 100 binary is 7 in decimal and octal
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes, up to 7 octal and decimal are the same
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> then it's 10 vs 8 :)
[18:40] <brobostigon> AlanBell: uumm, i think so, yes.
[18:40] <AlanBell> yes
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> I've been doing this for a while now :P
[18:41] <brobostigon> :)
[18:41] <AlanBell> ok, so brobostigon the 777 or 644 stuff people talk about is just a short way of saying which bits of rwxrwxrwx are turned off and on
[18:41] <AlanBell> to open a directory you need execute permissions to it
[18:41] <brobostigon> AlanBell: i think i hve it now, yes.
[18:42] <AlanBell> so 755 (rwxr-xr-x)
[18:43] <brobostigon> AlanBell: sointheory, i just need to make /var/www and its contents, readble by www-data.?
[18:43] <AlanBell> so owner can go into it and create files (read, write and execute) group and other can go into it but not change stuff (read+execute)
[18:43] <brobostigon> chmod -R /var/www ?
[18:43] <brobostigon> chmod -R 755 /var/www ?
[18:44] <AlanBell> for stupid historical reasons it is chmod -r and chown -R (or the other way round I always get it wrong)
[18:44] <brobostigon> ok, it will always tellme, if i have it wrong.
[18:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> -R works for both in my experience AlanBell
[18:46] <AlanBell> hmm, ok
[18:46] <AlanBell> one works with lower case too then
[18:48] <brobostigon> drwxr-xr-x  2 www-data www-data 4096 2011-05-10 17:39 www
[18:48] <brobostigon> is that right?
[18:48] <AlanBell> it is right if that is what you want
[18:49] <brobostigon> i want people to be able to read what i put in /var/www
[18:49] <DJones> Excellent, I can log into my work PC using ubuntu & chromium-browser from home via logmein
[18:50] <AlanBell> brobostigon: you want apache running as www-data to read it then hand it out what it reads to anonymous people
[18:50] <brobostigon> AlanBell: iam not using apache, i am using lighttpd
[18:51] <AlanBell> ooh, ok
[18:51] <AlanBell> what user does that run as?
[18:51] <brobostigon> not aclue.
[18:51] <AlanBell> ps aux |grep lighttp
[18:52] <brobostigon> www-data 29331  0.0  0.7   5092  1784 ?        S    11:45   0:00 /usr/sbin/lighttpd -f /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf
[18:52] <AlanBell> ok, so it is running as the user called www-data
[18:53] <brobostigon> yes.
[18:53] <AlanBell> so in general you want to arrange things so that www-data can read stuff
[18:54] <AlanBell> if you want people to be able to upload things to certain folders then you need to allow it to write to them and create files
[18:54] <AlanBell> if you want to use something like wordpress with automatic updates then it needs to be able to write to it's own php files as appropriate
[18:54] <AlanBell> you really don't want to allow people to arbitarily upload php files and then run them
[18:55] <AlanBell> or persuade your http task to write to files that it will then execute
[18:55] <AlanBell> PHP is an architectural failure of the concept of separating code and data
[18:55] <AlanBell> but it does run some nice applications
[18:57] <bearslumber> Hi, Can I ask Ubuntu/Kubuntu questions?
[18:57] <brobostigon> ok, umm, i have made notes of whatwe have upto now. no, i dont wat randompeople to play around. not a good idea.
[18:57] <brobostigon> bearslumber: good evening, fire away, always.
[18:57] <AlanBell> bearslumber: sure
[18:57] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ok, thank you for you help, i have made extensive notes.
[18:58] <bearslumber> Cheers. I wondered can I install Ubuntu and Kubuntu so I can choose between either desktop?
[18:58] <Psychobudgie> you can but be aware it can occasionally mess up fonts in ubuntu
[18:59] <AlanBell> bearslumber: I think if you install the ubuntu-desktop package and the kubuntu-desktop package you end up with everything and can choose on login
[18:59] <brobostigon> bearslumber: yes, install kubuntu-desktop, and ubuntu-desktop, and then switch between them in gdm.
[18:59] <bearslumber> Sounds good. How, by Ubuntu CD then Kubuntu?
[18:59] <AlanBell> I think you end up with the branding of the one you install last
[19:00] <AlanBell> so you can start with either CD and install the -desktop package of the other one
[19:00] <AlanBell> and the gdm theme ends up being overwritten by the second one (I think)
[19:02] <bearslumber> AllenBell: Thanks AlanBell. I see. Does that mean either  GDM theme copes with both Ubuntu and Kubuntu
[19:03] <AlanBell> yeah, I think so
[19:03] <AlanBell> haven't tried it for a few releases though
[19:03] <AlanBell> let us know how you get on
[19:04] <daubers> Evening
[19:04] <bearslumber> AllanBell: brobostigon: Okay guys. Thats all I need to go ahead. Will post back soon. I'm off to do it while the iron is hot. Many thanks. Bye
[19:41] <ali1234> hmm that's nice, xcode adds copyright boiler plate for you
[19:41] <ali1234> i always forget to do that
[20:04] <jacobw> all your copyright are belong to apple :p
[20:16] <emorris> Hi, I've got Ubuntu on my laptop and netbook. My netbook is currently on 11.04, and my laptop 10.10. I want to upgrade my laptop, but was wondering whether it's possible to re-use the packages downloaded for the netbook upgrade, then just download any additional packages?
[20:23] <jacobw> evening
[20:23] <jacobw> oops scroll failt
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> emorris: Maybe. The packages might still be in /var/cache/apt/archives on the netbook
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> emorris: put them in /var/cache/apt/archives on the laptop and start the upgrade
[20:24] <emorris> MartijnVdS, cool, there's loads in there; I'll give it a shot. Thanks!
[20:40] <AlanBell> gord: it is officially the springboard now, been announced on the podcast and everything
[20:40] <shauno> surprised how closely the streams are in sync.  video via ustream, audio the normal way
[20:50] <jacobw> how are people finding the performance of unity?
[20:51] <brobostigon> non-existant, dont use unity.
[20:51] <brobostigon> :p
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> I don't have problems with it
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> except the un-autohide might be a bit quicker
[21:31] <ocean> hi guys, i recently installed ubuntu 11.04 as a triple boot with ubuntu 10.10 and windows 7 on my hp pavilion dv6-3150 sa.on restart after the grub menu it did not boot 11.04 instead the back screen appeared. i did a cold booting again which worked and then logd out to test the classic desktop screen. I restarted the computer again and since then ubuntu 11.04 is not loading instead shows a black screen, can any one help, thanks in advance
[21:42] <ali1234> i think 2.6.38 is a lemon :(
[21:42] <ali1234> keep hearing bad things about it
[21:43] <hamitron> 2.4 <3
[21:43] <ali1234> well yeah
[21:43] <ali1234> hope you enjoy manually configuring all your hardware though
[21:44] <hamitron> tbh, I found it more fun
[21:44] <hamitron> ;)
[21:44] <hamitron> but I accept it isn't the way forward
[21:45] <hamitron> wasn't there some debate about how they change the development cycle when 2.6 branch started?
[21:45] <ali1234> it sure was damn reliable once you set it up
[21:45] <ali1234> there wasn't any debate
[21:45] <ali1234> basically there is never going to be a 2.7
[21:45] <hamitron> well, some didn't like the changes
[21:45] <ali1234> might as well just call it v38
[21:46] <hamitron> hmmm
[21:46] <hamitron> how long is 2.4 "supported"
[21:48] <hamitron> I've started to lose what I gained, when first moving to linux
[21:49] <ali1234> linux is never directly supported by the developers
[21:49] <hamitron> no
[21:49] <ali1234> 2.4 is supported for as long as you can find someone who will sell you a support contract
[21:49] <hamitron> but I mean, by supported.... people maintaining it
[21:50] <ali1234> it will be maintained while there are still people willing to pay for support
[21:51] <hamitron> keep playing with the idea of looking into linuxfromscratch
[21:51] <hamitron> learning from an old version of the book
[21:51] <hamitron> and seeing if something useful can still be built
[21:56] <jibadeeha> what do you guys think the future is for netbooks ... are they on their way out, or are tablets just a fad?
[21:57] <daubers> lo
[22:00] <popey> evening all
[22:01] <brobostigon> evening popey and daubers
[22:03] <awilkins> I can't see the point of tablets, personally. But I don't find netbooks ideal either - useful as a reading device, but rubbish for input
[22:04]  * popey covers his ipads ears
[22:06] <popey> ali1234: I saw this and thought of you http://people.cs.vt.edu/~mjeg/blog/2011/04/25/fast-ssh-file-copy-with-tar
[22:07] <davmor2> moo!
[22:07] <awilkins> popey, Neato, I sometimes use an archiver for that purpose (reduce file attribute thrashing), but I'd not thought of using tar like that.
[22:08] <davmor2> It's official gord doesn't exist
[22:09] <awilkins> A shame that won't work on Windows without farting around setting up an sshd
[22:11] <kazade_> Sigh, XChat keeps crashing :/
[22:12]  * popey cuddles kazade_ 
[22:17] <jibadeeha> awilkins, yeah i can't see a use case for myself where i would use a tablet .. just hope companies don't stop making netbooks, as they work perfect for my needs
[22:17] <ali1234> popey: nice one, i assume tar to stdout then pipe over ssh?
[22:18] <ali1234> thanks, that might just work
[22:22] <popey> np
[22:32] <ali1234> !lts
[22:32] <ali1234> hmmmmmmmmm
[22:34] <ali1234> so i have hardy 64 bit, with a lucid 64 bit chroot inside it, and the hardy lib32 is symlinked to the lucid chroot lib32
[22:35] <ali1234> and i chrooted to the lucid and did apt-get update
[22:35] <ali1234> but apparently theres no updates
[22:35] <ali1234> which seems odd cos i haven't updated it since a year ago
[22:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: That's a neat use of tar & ssh. Should be in www.commandlinefu.com (if it isn't already of course).
[22:38] <popey> yeah
[22:38] <ali1234> ok, it was cos i didn't put lucid-updates in sources.list
[22:39] <ali1234> hmm is there a way to prevent apt/dpkg from touching a directory?
[22:40] <ali1234> or make them ask me before installing files in a path
[22:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: as it runs as root, probably not, unless you set the immutable nit
[22:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\nit\bit
[22:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Then it will crash spectacularly I would guess :-)
[22:41] <ali1234> hmm a flashplugin update
[22:41] <ali1234> i hoeps its not the same broken one from natty
[22:42] <popey> you could pin the package
[22:42] <popey> unlikely anything depends on it
[22:42] <ali1234> except my app
[22:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> time for bedski said zebedofski
[22:42] <popey> o/
[22:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> nn
[22:43] <ali1234> damn it *is* the same one from natty
[22:43] <ali1234> lame, i better not get white rectangles in all the screenshots now
[22:43] <ali1234> that will be really annoying
[22:44] <popey> no i mean it wouldn hold anything else back
[22:44] <ali1234> too late now i didn't notice it until it already installed :(
[22:44] <popey> ah
[22:44] <ali1234> i don't think it uses the one from inside the chroot actually
[22:45] <ali1234> i think that's just there to get the deps
[22:45] <ali1234> i should probably check my notes before i start messing with the server
[22:46] <ali1234> otoh if lucid and natty have same flash, then maverick probably did too
[22:47] <ali1234> so maybe it's actually a ff4 problem
[22:49] <ali1234> arg how do i connect to a server on natty?
[22:49] <ali1234> places->connect to server
[22:53] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[22:57] <popey> ali1234: nautilus, file -> connect to server
[22:57] <ali1234> so now i have to go somewhere i don't want to go first before i can go where i want to go?
[22:57] <ali1234> logical
[22:58] <reaper4334> just like how System Settings is under the power menu
[22:58] <ali1234> oh wow what is that?
[22:59] <ali1234> gnome has a big control panel thing now too?
[22:59] <bigcalm> Took me ages to find the system settings menu. Only found it after giving up and went to shut down
[22:59] <ali1234> at least gnome's one picks up nvidia-settings - the one in xfce doesn't
[22:59] <reaper4334> bigcalm: almost same, I was giving up and going to log out to switch to classic
[22:59] <ali1234> i just typed the name of the thing i wanted in dash
[23:00] <bigcalm> What if you don't know what you're looking for and just want to browse?
[23:00] <popey> 12
[23:00] <ali1234> like "update" or "synaptic" or "passwords"
[23:00] <popey> bah
[23:00] <bigcalm> 42
[23:00] <ali1234> i already know all the gnome settings applets off by heart
[23:00] <ali1234> but if i was a new user i would hate it
[23:00] <ali1234> i still hate it a little bit
[23:01] <popey> settings seems to find it in dash
[23:01] <bigcalm> I'm more of a server user than the desktop
[23:01] <popey> you hate freedom more than I :)
[23:01] <bigcalm> Heh
[23:01] <bigcalm> I use computers as a tool
[23:02] <awilkins> I found the settings thing being in the power menu... odd
[23:02] <awilkins> Especially since it's the bottom item
[23:02] <awilkins> I expect the bottom item to be something that exits in some manner
[23:02] <ali1234> ok anyone know a really horrible flash website that uses multiple embeds all over the place and will really test any browser?
[23:03] <awilkins> Either logout or shutdown
[23:03] <reaper4334> Yeah, I think it was shutdown before
[23:03] <popey> ali1234: newgrounds?
[23:04] <ali1234> they have no flash onthe front page at all
[23:04] <popey> just a guess, sorry
[23:05] <bigcalm> weebls-stuff.com ?
[23:06] <bigcalm> I think it might be time for beddiebies
[23:06] <ali1234> all this stuff has almost no flash at all :/
[23:07] <popey> http://www.thefwa.com/
[23:08] <ali1234> better
[23:08] <popey> mtv.com does
[23:08] <popey> if you choose uk
[23:10] <ali1234> seems to be working still
[23:10] <ali1234> although i might have to increase the loading delay
[23:10] <ali1234> flash sites take so long to load :(
[23:14] <popey> you've made a browsershots-a-like?
[23:17] <ali1234> yes
[23:17] <ali1234> it also "rips" the entire page
[23:17] <ali1234> including all the urls, in a way that can be played back to the browser
[23:18] <ali1234> i didn't actually write most of it
[23:18] <popey> neat
[23:19] <ali1234> https://github.com/AdamN/python-webkit2png/blob/master/webkit2png.py
[23:19] <ali1234> i started with that ^
[23:19] <ali1234> and added flash plugin support and proxy-cache based on how pachyderm works
[23:22] <ali1234> curse google and there annoying url redirect that breaks copy paste
[23:22] <ali1234> google pachyderm proxy if you want to know, it's top hit
[23:25] <Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/IMG_20110510_231755.jpg
[23:25] <Azelphur> weeeeeeeee, it's alive \o/
[23:28] <popey> what is that thing on the desk, on the left
[23:30] <ali1234> water cooler radiator?
[23:30] <popey> ahh
[23:34] <Guest4574> hi guys, is there any 64 bit of flash player deb file available for ububtu
[23:36] <ali1234> there is an experimental ppa
[23:36] <Guest4574> can u get me the link pls, is it available to download from adobe site?
[23:37] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~sevenmachines/+archive/flash
[23:37] <ali1234> "it should not be used"
[23:37] <awilkins> You can just grab the .so from Adobe also
[23:38] <awilkins> And dump it in ~/.mozilla/plugins
[23:38] <ali1234> Guest4574: are you having the white rectangle bug?
[23:39] <ali1234> bug 761074
[23:39] <Guest4574> awilkins, that sounds easy, but where can I get the .so file for 64 bit
[23:40] <Guest4574> ali1234, what is the rectangular bug
[23:40] <awilkins> http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10_square.html
[23:40] <ali1234> well, you get lots of white rectangles over flash embeds
[23:41] <ali1234> like this: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/69392440/Bildschirmfoto-1.png
[23:41] <Guest4574> awilkins, thats a tar file isnt it
[23:41] <ali1234> yes it is
[23:41] <awilkins> Guest4574, Contains the libflashplayer.so file
[23:42] <Guest4574> awilkins, so just copy and paste it to mozilla /plugin?
[23:42] <awilkins> ~/.mozilla/plugins
[23:42] <Guest4574> awilkins, would it allow me to watch u tube?
[23:43] <awilkins> Guest4574, I don't seem to have a problem and it's been in my plugins folder for ages (I'm on v 10.2 d161 though - older)
[23:44] <Guest4574> ok, thats cool
[23:44] <Guest4574> let me try
[23:44] <Guest4574> :-)
[23:45] <ali1234> why do web users always connect with a reasonable nick and then get changed to guest? nick collision?
[23:45] <ali1234> if so, shouldn't that happen before they connect to a channel? or is nickserv just slow?
[23:54] <ali1234> popey: the original version of my app put each version of thepage in a git repo
[23:55] <ali1234> it was funny to watch web developers tweaking live pages in real time