[00:48] I usually agree with @drchuck (great prof at my school), but his last tweets about git/hg/bzr(by association) are just crazy: https://twitter.com/#!/drchuck [00:49] greg-g: I think the proper answer is "The open source world would like to strongly disagree" [00:50] or better "is very glad you're not kind for any days" [01:02] :) [01:10] I like @trek's reply to the king tweet. [01:16] Blazeix: yep :) [01:36] Fall of the roman empire? seriously? [01:37] <_stink_> i just wish he'd explain wtf he means. [01:37] There's always a canonical place for the source in git / hg [01:37] I like to think of it as having more than one point of failure [01:38] try coding without Internet with SVN [01:38] can't be done. [01:38] Not unless you want to make one giant check-in afterwards [01:39] what's the topic tonight? [01:39] bookie 0.2! [01:39] sounds like fun [01:40] Meh, I'm waiting for 0.3 [01:40] ;) [01:48] Man, I hate Bank of Americ [01:48] a [01:49] They've called me repeatedly to try and sell me identity theft insurance [01:49] once per day [01:49] told them to please lose my number [01:58] any RT <3 greatly appreciated: https://twitter.com/#!/BookieBmarks/status/67750341474648065 [01:59] /join #bookie [02:00] retweeted [02:00] Recycled [02:04] ty [02:06] Quick question I've been wondering about. [02:06] Has anyone heard or been too Cherry Valley Pizzeria? [02:06] nope [02:06] It isn't in business as of earlier january, but I'm curious of how many people have heard of it. [02:08] First I'm hearing of it [02:14] Alright, well thank you guys. [02:17] I love this [02:18] The guys that were having trouble with sending MMS to a handset were just using application/octet-stream as the MIME type, and expected it to work. [02:18] s/expected/expecting/ [02:18] snap-l saves the day! and curses a moron [02:20] Seriously, we've geen going around on this for _weeks_ [02:20] oh, that guys? [02:20] /guys/guy/ [02:20] And I finally roll up my sleeves and do some testing (after getting the filetypes that need to be tested) and prove that things are working just fine [02:21] I don't think I've mentioned this in channel [02:21] They did their own testing on Friday. [02:21] and only a few things were getting sent to the phone [02:21] And of couse I'm able to send pretty much what I want to my phone [02:32] I owe it all to Python as well [02:33] made it pretty easy to get this sorted. [04:37] microsoft is buying skype: [04:37] er, http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703730804576313932659388852.html [04:43] Blazeix: Yeah, just saw that [04:43] And the internet just shat itself [04:44] I'm taking a wait and see approach, but if it pans out, it means that I'll be 100% on Google Voice / WOW! [04:44] And I'll need to find another way to hande Skype interviews [04:45] http://kara.allthingsd.com/20110509/microsoft-will-announce-acquistion-of-skype-tomorrow-morning/ [04:46] Fuck [12:05] somebody in here was interested in MeeGo? Nixternal? http://www.ics.com/company/news/meego_conf_sf/ [13:07] snap-l: looks like we'd better find something else to do lococast with vs skype [13:08] http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/05/wsj-microsoft-to-buy-skype-for-7bn-rest-of-world-for-real.ars [13:08] maybe there will actually be some wide spread adoption of mumble [13:09] I might need to get a mixer and some extra audio equip for the office [13:10] there's no way skype lives on linux being MS owned [13:10] not that we were back seat anyway, but still [13:12] apple's already ahead of it, with facetime [13:12] i expect a renewed interest in ekiga [13:13] yea, but skype has hit mainstream with non-apple users [13:14] good point [13:14] no one will want to install a flaky open source webcam chat thing just to talk to their dorky friend/kid [13:21] rick_h__: Yeah, I've been thinking about it all night [13:30] omfg. The Siemens dude just compared "statement list" to Visual Basic. [13:31] ...he also said the address was the comment (because symbolic addressing was used) and the comment was the address (because somebody typed the non-symbolic address into the comment) [13:32] why am I here to "learn" Siemens software from this guy? [13:52] greg-g: Mumble should not replace skype [13:53] They are diffrent tools for different situations [13:53] Mumble should be compared to TeamSpeak or Ventrillo [13:53] yea, thankfully video is coming to android google talk [13:53] so there will be that on mobile and web [13:54] I hope for a protocol to come to replace SIP that gains wipe adoption [13:55] dunno if extensions to XMPP is the way to go like with Google Talk, but I wouldn't be against it if done right [13:55] For consumer use I'd agree with rick [13:56] google's the way to go [13:56] Average Joe should not be expected to worry about VOIP signaling protocols =( [13:59] https://identi.ca/notice/73100654 [13:59] lol [14:01] sorry, that was mainly at the second part [14:02] Yeah, that was the intention. :) [14:04] lol [14:56] money-making idea: WOM chips (write-only memory). Super cheap to produce. Just need to convince people they want/need WOM [14:58] remember WORM drives? (Write Once, Read Many)? Someone came up with the WORN drive. (Write Once, Read Never) [14:58] i already have plenty of WOM in /dev/null [14:59] brousch: you need more. You should buy it from me. [15:00] memcached is the new WOM [15:00] heh [15:03] http://ihnatko.com/2011/05/10/microsoft-buys-skype-for-8-5-billion/ <- I <3 Ihnatko's writing [15:29] python people, I was looking for a good template for the file header and came across this:http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1523427/python-what-is-the-common-header-format, I've never seen the __author__, __etc__ stuff. common? [15:31] I've not seen anything like that [15:31] At least not that I've noticed [15:31] yeah [15:31] now that I'm aware of it, I'll probably notice it everywhere. ;) [15:31] I found this though: http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-fields.html#module-metadata-variables [15:32] anyways, not that important, moving on to write the next helper script [15:32] I think I've see that before [15:32] in OpenERP [15:32] ah, cool [15:33] Didn't think it was a common Python convention though, it was the only place I've seen it before [15:33] Like I don't I've even seen it used when I playing around with Pylons a while back [15:33] I have this feeling that it's something that's nice to have, and most would agree that it's nice to have [15:34] and that I enjoy being repetitive [15:35] WHat source generated documentation tools are there anyways for python? [15:36] besides doxygen I guess [15:36] is there like a pydoc analog to javadoc? [15:36] Sphinx? [15:36] Sphix? Isn't that a search engine? [15:37] http://sphinx.pocoo.org/contents.html [15:37] It's an unfortunate name clash [15:37] Ahhh [15:38] ninkendo_: you work for apple now? [15:42] snap-l: I don't see a section about sphinx reading metadata like greg-g's link [15:43] Right, I'm not sure if anything uses that [15:49] http://ubuntuone.com/p/sIB/ [15:55] jrwren: whoa, ninkendo_ at apple? where did you see this? [15:56] snap-l: LOL [15:57] greg-g: Thought you'd get a kick out of that. :) [16:02] Holy shit, this meeting is 1 1/2 hours [16:03] (*blah blah blah*) [16:15] greg-g: no, that's not common [16:16] basically taking advantage of the fact that any .py file is a module [16:16] and allowing you to do stuff like [16:16] mylib.__author__ [16:16] and epydoc has it's own format, but most people these days are using sphinx and restructured text [16:16] so more often see things like :author: RIck [16:18] * greg-g nods [16:20] rumor i heard. [16:40] yay, debugged and got running a complex python script (started on Thursday, didn't look at all weekend/yesterday), and wrote another (simplier) one that is doing its thing now, too [16:40] read "complex" as "complex for greg-g" [16:40] awesome [16:40] python ftw [16:40] :) [16:42] greg-g: Seems the theme of the week is "Python rocks" [17:03] So with Skype being purchased by MS, is it kosher to say Microsoft writes Linux-compatible software? ;-) [17:03] for about 48hrs [17:04] Apparently the natives are restless by my house [17:06] There's a group of kids that appear to be visiting the urban farm across the street [17:07] Microsoft already has written plenty of software for Linux [17:07] even kernel modules [17:08] 'tis true [17:08] they've done GPL [17:08] right, but what consumer product do they have on linux? [17:08] I can't think of any, but admit I don't track it [17:08] I'll feel better if there's something they do that runs on linux [17:10] We'll know more in the coming weeks [17:10] Personally I'm sub-optimistic [17:10] yea, I'm ready to find alternatives for sure [17:11] I've been liking google voice in gmail [17:11] so now I have a reason to use google's stuff more [17:11] Yeah, Google Voice is nice [17:12] snap-l: "sub-optimistic"? I like it. [17:14] mmmm, google io [17:14] I'll have to try to go to this thing one day [17:14] Well, if the first order of business is to kill off Linux clients, then I'll be nerd-enraged [17:20] best case scenario, they open up the protocol. worst case, they make a change to the protocol and don't update the linux client. [17:21] that'd be interesting, for skype;s protocol to become a .NET library [17:22] though I'm pretty sure they bought skype for the brand, not the technology [17:23] Milyardo: I could see them integrating it into XBox and PC [17:23] and licensing it out [17:25] snap-l: As a component of live.com? [17:26] Music beta by Google [17:26] Milyardo: Pissibly. [17:26] Er, possibly. [17:27] OK, Ubuntu Cloud streaming needs to not be subscription, starting now. :) [17:27] ha, if they do then Skype is doomed for eventual irrelevence then [17:27] just like the rest of Windows LIve [17:32] Wow, I think I found a bug in the music player [17:32] Most of the music is "Unknown Artists / Unknown Album" [17:34] ------------------------------------------------------------ [17:34] 12:03 wolfger| So with Skype being purchased by MS, is it kosher to say Microsoft writes Linux-compatible software? ;-) [17:34] dont forget the hyper v kernel patch [17:39] Oooh, very mice [17:39] nice, even [17:39] awesome, arduino board for talking to google apps [17:39] Android Accessories are Arduino-based [17:39] well for android [17:42] lol http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/jstrap/gmail/signature?20388 [17:45] alert alert! [17:47] alerts are javascript. For shame, rick_h__. [17:47] ahhh [17:50] FSF just likes to piss on everybody, don't they? [17:55] Oh FFS [17:56] * snap-l is copying all of my Amazon purchased music to Ubuntu One [17:57] brousch loves those hotdogs [18:00] ohyeah [18:00] also it's a little local place and i don't want it to die ;) [18:00] like my thai restaurant did [18:01] greg-g: thanks for the link to the FSF announcement, I updated my Gmail email signature [18:03] I can't tell if people know I'm kidding, never mind [18:06] rick_h__: if you haven't already read this http://sontek.net/turning-vim-into-a-modern-python-ide some good tips [18:06] binbrain: yea, some things to check out [18:06] most of it I have or an alternate to [18:06] nose vs pytest and such [18:06] heh, that's the second time someone in here has linked that article to rick_h__ [18:07] (at least that I've seen) [18:07] Yea, I'm known for my quirks :) [18:07] :) [18:08] rick_h__: I didn't know about gundo or snipmate [18:08] I actually wrote some stuff to do what snipmate does [18:09] Yea, I've been using snipmate for a while [18:09] handy for some things [18:09] I have dmp as a shortcut [18:09] in a JS file it does console.log() [18:09] in python LOG.debug() [18:09] in PHP it does a print_r() [18:09] nice to have one command that maps to the right language at hand [18:10] https://github.com/mitechie/pyvim/blob/master/custom_snippets/python-custom.snippets [18:11] in PHwhaaaaaaaaa? [18:13] I more like "snippet ass" [18:13] :) [18:13] I know, poor taste, but dammit it makes sense [18:13] haha, I know [18:16] bah, hate when bosses make bad design choices [18:18] that's what they're there for rick_h__ [18:18] it's so hard to argue those things [18:18] they're 'touchy feely' kind of things that just feel wrong [18:19] but this one time...at band camp...I wanted this data in the table so make it always visible kthx [18:19] I've been pretty lucky with my bosses actually though [18:19] its always the upper uppers that have no idea that make the bad decisions [18:19] I'm trying to beat the term 'USE CASE' into the heads of people [18:19] if there's not a use case it doesn't exist [18:23] Had a boss mention on the conference call that we don't do things just because they're cool [18:23] There has to be a reason to do it [18:24] being cool _is_ a reason [18:24] it may not be a good one [18:24] It's not enough [18:25] sigh, so suddenly work figured out how a queue works [18:25] "but when we add new stuff it has to wait for all the rest to go through!" [18:25] umm yep...that's a queue [18:25] "but we want everyone to run at the same time" [18:25] rick_h__: Congratulations on knowing what you'll be working your entire infrastructure around. ;) [18:25] well...that should have come up about a year ago, thanks for trying [18:25] to the cloud! [18:26] yea, the whole thing is built around this queue, high speed, able to process like a banshee [18:26] but suddenly they realized someone can lock it up for 3-4 hrs [18:26] yep...true [18:26] and the problem is??? [18:26] "well they want to see some go out" *sigh* [18:26] Which is why you have multiple workers [18:26] so something isn't bunging up the queue [18:26] yea, the thing is that there's no time sensitivity to it [18:27] it's not like a 3 or 4 hr delay hurts them [18:27] it's all mental [18:27] "The old system we could fire up more instances and they'd run side by side" [18:27] Right, because they're thinking of it like a shopping line [18:27] well, this aint the old system [18:27] and it's 4-6x faster [18:27] so rather than taking 20 hrs to run them all side by side, they all get done in 5 hrs [18:27] So it's the difference between checking out at Meijer vs. Checking out at Meijer [18:27] just your stuff runs in hour 4-5 [18:28] s/Meijer/Wal*Mart/ [18:28] When I check out at Meijer, I'm happy [18:28] ugh, come on MUG, I need some geek fun [18:28] when I check out at Wal*Mart, I want to kill someone. [18:28] so my system is walmart? [18:28] :( [18:28] No, I mean the new system is Meijer [18:29] and the old system is Wal*Mart. [18:30] wal-mart has many check-out lines while meijer has only one? [18:30] * greg-g is confused [18:30] ;) [18:31] so am I [18:31] my meijer has a lot of self-service lines [18:31] Well, hell. [18:31] is that like downloading the job to my laptop and running it there? [18:31] haha [18:32] there you go [18:32] * brousch hugs snap-l [18:32] brousch: autonomous computing approved by the FSF [18:32] distributed service [18:32] My experience with Wal*Mart is no matter how many queues there are, they all suck [18:32] lol, go greg-g "own your data, the server will give you back your unit of work and ask you to do it yourself" [18:32] haha [18:33] Isn't that what we do all day? [18:33] I think it's all just an illusion [18:33] The world is being powered by our little pieces of work [18:35] anyone run Windows Server 2008 (or R2) on EC2? can you tell me what Control Panel->System And Security-> System shows under the Processor field? [18:36] we've got an instance we run when needed, but not sure what is says there [18:42] whoa, i found a python job i'm qualified for! "Part-time Django web developer & Excel support. 3-4 days / month developing web-based database application, as well as manipulation of complex Excel spreadsheets. Approx 3-4 days/month" [18:43] 3-4/mo? [18:48] part time django and excel! [18:49] quote 'em $2000 for that :) [18:54] Any know hot to get Apache to change it uid to the user to authticates for a request? [18:55] I have a CGI script who's permissions I want to limit based on the user who authenticates [18:55] file system permissions to be specifixc [19:00] Milyardo: Sounds like you'd need a plugin to make that happen [19:00] though which plugin I have NFC [19:00] snap-l: I think its a apache module yeah, but I don't remeber the name, I know that webdav mod has it as a depedency [19:01] I'm not sure what web-dav does, personally [19:01] I had limited exposure to a working instance of it, and even that was too much [19:03] stick it on a queue, root reads off the queue and su's to the person required :) [19:08] Yeah, that may be a better approach [19:08] that way you're not trying to munge the running process [19:20] Milyardo: I've never seen it done successfully outside of suexec. [19:20] i like rick_h__ approach too [19:22] Apache already forks a new process when executing CGI's right? Doesn't seem like it would be too diffcult to setuid it to the right user based on who authenticaed [19:23] Milyardo: That also assumes you're running Apache as root [19:23] which is generally a bad idea [19:23] iirc, only root can do that [19:25] brousch: and after the last couple days, I'm half-qualified (python-excel manipulation) [19:25] there's supposed to be a few sarcastic exclamation points there !!!!! [19:25] Milyardo: once apache starts it drops root to the www-data user on most machines (forget what RH users drop to) [19:25] and runs from there as the web user [19:25] suexec does exactly that, but based on file owner not as authenticaed user. [19:25] with the limited permissions [19:26] Milyardo: I'd write a separate service that handles the perms, run that service, then let me web front end talk to the security service. [19:26] rick_h__: Thats what I thought, and was jsut double checking that [19:26] I tihnk RH uses apache [19:27] yea, and the thing that runs the service, lock it down like a #@$%#@$%#@ [19:27] (as the user) [19:27] with no outside access, limited bin access, etc [19:27] I'd recommend using chroots [19:27] We used FUSE at Sourceforge [19:27] (as well) [19:27] yes to all of the above. :) [19:29] http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourceforge/files/project-perms/ [19:30] htat's got the mods for fuse that SF used [19:30] Well the application I'm trying to change the uid of is gitweb, I was hoping to be able to have apache do the setuid so the authenicated user wouldn't be able to view git repo's they don't have the file permissions to read [19:31] Wouldn't gitorious handle that? [19:31] Milyardo: check out golite [19:31] sorry, that's for gitosis [19:31] Bah, gitosis [19:31] Gitorious uses different SSH keys to differ users, the process still runs all as the same suer [19:32] err yeah gitosis [19:32] I don't know why my brain is wired to use gitorious as a synonym for gitosis [19:33] Milyardo: Check into the project auth foo on SF.net [19:33] rick_h__: not finding anything relevent when I google golite [19:33] seriously, they did something very much like that [19:33] https://github.com/sitaramc/gitolite [19:33] sorry, that's the link [19:33] easy to sync gitweb (http) authorisation with gitolite's access config [19:33] that's what you want [19:33] Well I did see that Sun had a mod_user that does exactly what I'm looking for [19:34] but their apache mod seems to only build on Solaris and Sun OS [19:34] Milyardo: thing is, if you decouple the web server from the piece that's doing the work, you won't have to worry as much when someone compromises the web server [19:35] or go redmine and lock down the projects per user while enabling the repository browsing [19:37] Milyardo: What are you worried will get out to someone without proper auth? [19:38] snap-l: Nothing really, just more a convience thing, wanted users to be able to browse thier private repositories [19:38] I could use mod_user_dir [19:38] that changes the uid [19:39] not using gitosis for the server side already? [19:39] different from mod_userdir? [19:39] Nope, this is purely for broswsing which is why I didn't think gitosis was appropriate [19:39] Oh hell no [19:39] Use gitosis [19:40] seriously. It's hand-to-glove if you have a centralized server. [19:40] well how are the git repos accessed now? [19:41] just via ssh under a shared account or something? [19:44] well each user a a folder called public in their home directory which is readable by www-data [19:45] any repository in public appears in gitweb [19:48] They push and pull to the directories with ssh, and only use gitweb for browsing [19:52] https://twitter.com/#!/tarek_ziade/status/68025021645332480 [19:52] this is why I follow twitter, it makes me smile sometimes [19:53] rick_h__: heh [19:58] awesome. i have an android app that brings up a google map and custom marker that follows my gps location [19:58] phonegap ftw [19:58] cool? [19:58] lol, my consulting fee is only $1,000,000 [19:58] That's awesome. [19:58] * rick_h__ points pinky to lips [19:59] one more thing to do and this app will be usable for something [20:04] now we know where to DDOS to knock greg-g offline. ;) [20:05] make sad? [20:07] dang cloak not being there! [20:07] muhahahaha [20:07] yeah, a shared colo box [20:07] oh man, that's beautiful. google pretty much did the work for me [20:34] Hey, now we're cooking with gas on the Java front [20:34] FIRE FIRE!!! [20:34] Exception in thread "main" com.sun.xml.ws.wsdl.parser.InaccessibleWSDLException: 2 counts of InaccessibleWSDLException. [20:35] I think I'm going to need to go to the store to get some more buckes of cocks for JAva to choke on. [20:37] http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/05/app-engine-150-release.html [20:40] People still use Google App Engine? [20:40] i do! [20:40] now you can use Go [20:40] Just seemed liek it was the new hotness until Amazon EC2 [20:40] or i could use python! [20:40] and then it just fizzled [20:47] PainBank1: thanks for telling me about Ohloh. ;) [20:48] huh? [20:48] He sent me a note to claim my Busy Busy Bugs source [20:49] hehe [20:49] glad you liked it. [20:49] not that I am stalking you... :) [20:50] snap-l: I saw that site a long time ago and thought it was cool, so I signed up for it just as a reminder of cool FLOSS apps I come across... [20:51] then saw it today and for whatever reason saw your name on there or did a search, forget which... but it had you tracked as an OSS dev having committed code. [20:51] it is sort of like an idea I had how cool it would be to show off how much code you have committed in the past to OSS. [20:53] ugh [20:57] PainBank: Yeah, I'm familiar with ohloh [20:57] used to be owned by geeknet. ;) [20:58] did we ever hear why they bought them? [20:59] stupidity [20:59] hehe [20:59] it's a cool concept. [20:59] The CEO later regarded it as a pretty dumb move [20:59] geeknet ceo? [21:00] yeah [21:00] It really didn't make much sense, overall [21:00] is there not way for that site to make money, is that it? [21:02] I think it was a question of what exactly were we going to do with it [21:02]