| Logan_ | Should https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingFlock be deleted? That browser is no longer in development, and the homepage doesn't have any download links anymore. | 00:24 |
|---|---|---|
| MrChrisDruif | Logan_; Maybe a note in the top with this comment? | 00:26 |
| Logan_ | Hmm, I guess that would work. | 00:26 |
| MrChrisDruif | Logan_; There are always unseen links to a page, so don't delete a page suddenly... | 00:27 |
| Logan_ | I don't have deletion rights, of course. | 00:27 |
| MrChrisDruif | Can't explain it properly atm...tired/bit tipsy | 00:27 |
| Logan_ | I would just tag it for deletion. :P | 00:27 |
| zkriesse | Logan_: Tagging it for deletion would be awesome thanks | 00:30 |
| Logan_ | I don't seem to have consensus for that. :P | 00:31 |
| Logan_ | But you're part of the editing group, so... | 00:31 |
| Logan_ | zkriesse: Done. | 00:33 |
| zkriesse | Lol | 00:33 |
| Logan_ | :P | 00:34 |
| MrChrisDruif | Tagging for deletion....okay | 00:44 |
| === head_v is now known as head_victim | ||
| Captainkrtek | anyone around? | 05:47 |
| mdke | anyone know how I can test yelp in another language without logging out and back in with the other language? | 08:37 |
| mdke | in the old days "LANG=it yelp" was good enough but it doesn't seem to work now | 08:38 |
| mdke | ah, it's "LANGUAGE=it yelp" | 08:39 |
| mdke | nm | 08:39 |
| jbicha | mdke: I had trouble with that today too | 08:39 |
| jbicha | oh, LANGUAGE isn't intuitive | 08:40 |
| DarkwingDuck | As a KDE user, how is Yelp as a full program? | 08:40 |
| jbicha | what do you mean, yelp works, right? | 08:40 |
| mdke | DarkwingDuck: I haven't tried it on kde | 08:40 |
| DarkwingDuck | We don't use Yelp over on our side. | 08:41 |
| DarkwingDuck | But, we are having issues with KHelpCenter and are trying to... figure out what to do about it. | 08:42 |
| DarkwingDuck | And dammit, it wont run without a bunch of extras i dont' want to install... Hmmz. | 08:43 |
| mdke | I think a lot of stuff has been stripped out of yelp in version 3 and put in a cross desktop compatible backend | 08:43 |
| mdke | so it wouldn't be too hard to develop a non-gtk frontend, I'll bet | 08:44 |
| DarkwingDuck | It's built off of GTK isn't it? | 08:44 |
| mdke | but shaunm is the guy to talk to | 08:44 |
| DarkwingDuck | Well, with KDE being Qt and there seems to be a push for Ubuntu to start heading to the Qt toolkit | 08:44 |
| jbicha | I like how yelp & mallard works for the most part, khelpcenter just seems more out of date | 08:46 |
| jbicha | but it would take a lot of people to agree to overhaul khelpcenter | 08:47 |
| DarkwingDuck | We ahve th people and we are going to start doing it. | 08:47 |
| MrChrisDruif | So yelp is a back end which currently only has a gtk frond end? | 08:48 |
| MrChrisDruif | Still one package I think, so that would need to be cut loose and a Qt front end attached as well | 08:48 |
| jbicha | yes, I'm sure shaunm would love to have an alternate viewer for mallard | 08:51 |
| jbicha | & it's good for everyone to have KDE & GNOME move closer together in this | 08:52 |
| mdke | MrChrisDruif: there are some things in separate packages, like yelp-xsl for example | 08:58 |
| * mdke -> work | 08:58 | |
| j1mc | hey all - the docs session went pretty well earlier today. the drupal platform seems pretty neat, and it can do some pretty neat stuff. | 14:44 |
| j1mc | we had david planella there, as well as a server guy and matthew nuuzum (sp?) from the group at canonical that handles drupal stuff. | 14:44 |
| j1mc | they asked some good questions, and gave some good feedback. | 14:45 |
| j1mc | but we need to evaluate this as a team and see if it could work with our requirements and workflow. | 14:45 |
| j1mc | the server guy was david walker | 14:46 |
| j1mc | jbicha: howdy | 15:27 |
| shaunm | MrChrisDruif, DarkwingDuck: I'm totally open to discussing ways more code can be shared. yelp's internals are in a separate library, libyelp, although it's not packages separately yet | 15:30 |
| shaunm | libyelp is a glib/gtk library though. it's conceivable it could be split into two libraries, a no-toolkit libyelp and a libyelp-gtk | 15:31 |
| shaunm | then a libyelp-qt could be developed | 15:31 |
| MrChrisDruif | I think KDE users would appreciate that :) | 15:32 |
| shaunm | I don't know what kde's stance on glib is though. the thought of writing a C library without glib makes me shudder | 15:33 |
| j1mc | whois MrChrisDruif | 15:34 |
| j1mc | hehe | 15:34 |
| * MrChrisDruif doesn't know that either,,,,, shaunm | 15:34 | |
| j1mc | hi shaunm | 15:34 |
| j1mc | hi DarkwingDuck | 15:34 |
| j1mc | and hi MrChrisDruif | 15:34 |
| MrChrisDruif | j1mc; I'm me :) | 15:34 |
| j1mc | :) | 15:34 |
| DarkwingDuck | Hey guys | 15:34 |
| MrChrisDruif | Aloha DarkwingDuck | 15:35 |
| MrChrisDruif | :) | 15:35 |
| DarkwingDuck | I'm getting sleepy LOL | 15:35 |
| j1mc | DarkwingDuck: there was a Kubuntu docs session, but it was scheduled at the same time as my last docs session, so i missed it. | 15:35 |
| shaunm | or, you know, maybe it's ok to have separate libraries. we can still share the rendering code in yelp-xsl. there's nothing gnome-specific about that, except that it's hosted on gnome.org | 15:35 |
| DarkwingDuck | j1mc: it was more internal review and todos for the kubuntu guys | 15:35 |
| DarkwingDuck | shaunm: I'll bring it up with the Kubunut guys... we are just sick of KDE HElp Center | 15:36 |
| shaunm | DarkwingDuck: while you're at it: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2010-April/011443.html | 15:37 |
| shaunm | nixternal and I put that together. it was a shared effort from the outset. but then he kind of disappeared for a while | 15:38 |
| DarkwingDuck | nixternal is fairly gone these days. | 15:39 |
| DarkwingDuck | I've taken over for him in Kubuntu... i don't know who is doing KDE upstream stuff these days | 15:40 |
| DarkwingDuck | shaunm: I remember when this happened... I'll review again. | 15:40 |
| shaunm | is Cornelius still doing khelpcenter work? | 15:42 |
| shaunm | KDE has a SoC student doing khelpcenter work this year, right? | 15:43 |
| shaunm | actually, wasn't he going to UDS. j1mc, weren't you meeting up with him? | 15:43 |
| DarkwingDuck | shaunm: I know that apachelogger was talking about getting some things. | 15:44 |
| DarkwingDuck | changed in khelpcenter | 15:44 |
| j1mc | i have talked with him very briefly, and he attended the docs goals session | 15:46 |
| j1mc | but we haven't talked extensively, and our sessions overlapped today | 15:46 |
| shaunm | ok | 15:48 |
| DarkwingDuck | Okay, I've been up all night. I'm crashing | 15:49 |
| j1mc | i do want to still talk with apachelogger, though. | 15:50 |
| j1mc | ok, i found him in kubuntu-devel, and we're making arrangements to meet | 15:52 |
| shaunm | excellent | 15:52 |
| shaunm | (damn hackfests getting in the way of him coming to open help :P) | 15:53 |
| j1mc | yeah | 15:55 |
| j1mc | shaunm: the provonix guy is interested in hosting another openhelp conference in europe. ?? | 15:55 |
| shaunm | he is? | 15:56 |
| j1mc | yeah | 15:56 |
| j1mc | would that be cool w/ you? | 15:56 |
| j1mc | he said he's trying to do a virtual session at your conference, too. | 15:57 |
| shaunm | yeah, he said something about friday evening, which I suppose is his evening, which is our mid-day | 15:57 |
| shaunm | the conference isn't even really happening at that point | 15:58 |
| j1mc | oh, like... it hasn't started yet? | 15:58 |
| shaunm | and we kind of decided not to do a virtual session with mairin (who I really wanted to have there) | 15:58 |
| shaunm | there's a reception friday at 7. that's the start of the conference | 15:58 |
| j1mc | right | 15:58 |
| shaunm | but the reception is just a reception. there's no projector and screens and seats | 15:59 |
| j1mc | yeah | 15:59 |
| j1mc | plus, reception =! conference talk time | 15:59 |
| shaunm | but look, if he's going to do this presentation friday US-mid-day anyway, and it's going to be streamed, I have no problem mentioning that to the OH attendees in an email | 15:59 |
| j1mc | well, i'll let you two iron that out. | 15:59 |
| shaunm | "Getting in early? Go sit in the lounge with your laptop and watch this webcast." | 16:00 |
| shaunm | I'll email him | 16:00 |
| j1mc | with mairin ... we were asking her, but here is someone who really wants to do it. | 16:00 |
| shaunm | I'm kind of concerned about having a second conference though | 16:01 |
| j1mc | it would be great if we could accommodate him somehow | 16:01 |
| j1mc | ok | 16:01 |
| j1mc | what is concerning? | 16:01 |
| shaunm | not trying to be possessive. it's just that the turnout is lower than I'd hoped, and I think with good hype this year, turnout next year can get up to 50 or so. but if there's a second conference, most people won't do both. so that splits the audience | 16:02 |
| j1mc | yeah... that's a good point. i can understand that. | 16:03 |
| shaunm | I would actually love for there to be two well-attended conferences. I just don't think, at this point, that two would be well-attended | 16:04 |
| j1mc | i need to go to apachelogger's thing, but i'll be back on in a little bit | 16:05 |
| jbicha | shaunm: are you still here | 16:14 |
| jbicha | we had a help question in #ubuntu-uds-dery | 16:14 |
| shaunm | jbicha: sure, what's the question? | 16:38 |
| jbicha | they were just wondering about http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gGsetttk-devel-list/2011-April/msg00141.html | 16:38 |
| jbicha | well that link doesn't work | 16:39 |
| jbicha | https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2011-April/msg00141.html | 16:39 |
| jbicha | I wasn't really following exactly what they were discussing | 16:39 |
| shaunm | well, it's somewhat technical, has to do with how programmers construct buttons and menus for help | 16:41 |
| shaunm | right now, when a developer creates a help menu, he populates it statically with some entries. usually "Contents" (ugh) and "About" | 16:42 |
| shaunm | with the GHelp API, he'd create a help menu, but wouldn't put anything in it. instead, he'd say "the URI for my help is help:gnome-help, and call this menu 'my-main-menu'" | 16:43 |
| jbicha | and Ubuntu likes to add the launchpad stuff | 16:43 |
| shaunm | then, in our mallard files, we would tag pages. so for any page we want to show up in that menu, we'd add <facet:tag key="g-help-tag" values="my-main-menu"/> | 16:44 |
| jbicha | I think part of why they were interested is they would rather push 1 patch to gtk than dozens of patches to different apps | 16:44 |
| shaunm | when you launch the app, the help document is read (probably from a cache, for performance), and the menus are populated automatically | 16:44 |
| jbicha | you can talk to them if you like, I'm not really a decisionmaker :-) | 16:44 |
| shaunm | ah, I see | 16:45 |
| shaunm | it's conceivable the help menu could also have a way to automatically add something static like that | 16:45 |
| jbicha | context-sensitive help would be nice but I don't see the context of the Help menu changing that much | 16:45 |
| jbicha | yeah, they just want to be able to insert the program's name so that users can click a button | 16:46 |
| jbicha | to report a problem and it automatically starts the report-bug stuff for that app | 16:46 |
| shaunm | actually, I think there's a lot of potential places to change the tag on the help menu | 16:50 |
| shaunm | there's also a help button in this API. and that could change for e.g. a button in a tabbed dialog | 16:50 |
| shaunm | for menus, consider a program like evolution, a shell for like five different programs | 16:51 |
| shaunm | or a word processor. it could add a tag for table operations if your cursor happens to be in a table, for example | 16:52 |
| jbicha | oh ok | 16:52 |
| jbicha | I'm just used to that never changing :_) | 16:52 |
| jbicha | :-) | 16:52 |
| shaunm | yeah, I like changing everything | 16:52 |
| UndiFineD | hey guys, the wiki supports using an alternative editor right ? how about reworking fckeditor to produce mallard ? | 19:16 |
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