[00:24] Should https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingFlock be deleted? That browser is no longer in development, and the homepage doesn't have any download links anymore. [00:26] Logan_; Maybe a note in the top with this comment? [00:26] Hmm, I guess that would work. [00:27] Logan_; There are always unseen links to a page, so don't delete a page suddenly... [00:27] I don't have deletion rights, of course. [00:27] Can't explain it properly atm...tired/bit tipsy [00:27] I would just tag it for deletion. :P [00:30] Logan_: Tagging it for deletion would be awesome thanks [00:31] I don't seem to have consensus for that. :P [00:31] But you're part of the editing group, so... [00:33] zkriesse: Done. [00:33] Lol [00:34] :P [00:44] Tagging for deletion....okay === head_v is now known as head_victim [05:47] anyone around? [08:37] anyone know how I can test yelp in another language without logging out and back in with the other language? [08:38] in the old days "LANG=it yelp" was good enough but it doesn't seem to work now [08:39] ah, it's "LANGUAGE=it yelp" [08:39] nm [08:39] mdke: I had trouble with that today too [08:40] oh, LANGUAGE isn't intuitive [08:40] As a KDE user, how is Yelp as a full program? [08:40] what do you mean, yelp works, right? [08:40] DarkwingDuck: I haven't tried it on kde [08:41] We don't use Yelp over on our side. [08:42] But, we are having issues with KHelpCenter and are trying to... figure out what to do about it. [08:43] And dammit, it wont run without a bunch of extras i dont' want to install... Hmmz. [08:43] I think a lot of stuff has been stripped out of yelp in version 3 and put in a cross desktop compatible backend [08:44] so it wouldn't be too hard to develop a non-gtk frontend, I'll bet [08:44] It's built off of GTK isn't it? [08:44] but shaunm is the guy to talk to [08:44] Well, with KDE being Qt and there seems to be a push for Ubuntu to start heading to the Qt toolkit [08:46] I like how yelp & mallard works for the most part, khelpcenter just seems more out of date [08:47] but it would take a lot of people to agree to overhaul khelpcenter [08:47] We ahve th people and we are going to start doing it. [08:48] So yelp is a back end which currently only has a gtk frond end? [08:48] Still one package I think, so that would need to be cut loose and a Qt front end attached as well [08:51] yes, I'm sure shaunm would love to have an alternate viewer for mallard [08:52] & it's good for everyone to have KDE & GNOME move closer together in this [08:58] MrChrisDruif: there are some things in separate packages, like yelp-xsl for example [08:58] * mdke -> work [14:44] hey all - the docs session went pretty well earlier today. the drupal platform seems pretty neat, and it can do some pretty neat stuff. [14:44] we had david planella there, as well as a server guy and matthew nuuzum (sp?) from the group at canonical that handles drupal stuff. [14:45] they asked some good questions, and gave some good feedback. [14:45] but we need to evaluate this as a team and see if it could work with our requirements and workflow. [14:46] the server guy was david walker [15:27] jbicha: howdy [15:30] MrChrisDruif, DarkwingDuck: I'm totally open to discussing ways more code can be shared. yelp's internals are in a separate library, libyelp, although it's not packages separately yet [15:31] libyelp is a glib/gtk library though. it's conceivable it could be split into two libraries, a no-toolkit libyelp and a libyelp-gtk [15:31] then a libyelp-qt could be developed [15:32] I think KDE users would appreciate that :) [15:33] I don't know what kde's stance on glib is though. the thought of writing a C library without glib makes me shudder [15:34] whois MrChrisDruif [15:34] hehe [15:34] * MrChrisDruif doesn't know that either,,,,, shaunm [15:34] hi shaunm [15:34] hi DarkwingDuck [15:34] and hi MrChrisDruif [15:34] j1mc; I'm me :) [15:34] :) [15:34] Hey guys [15:35] Aloha DarkwingDuck [15:35] :) [15:35] I'm getting sleepy LOL [15:35] DarkwingDuck: there was a Kubuntu docs session, but it was scheduled at the same time as my last docs session, so i missed it. [15:35] or, you know, maybe it's ok to have separate libraries. we can still share the rendering code in yelp-xsl. there's nothing gnome-specific about that, except that it's hosted on gnome.org [15:35] j1mc: it was more internal review and todos for the kubuntu guys [15:36] shaunm: I'll bring it up with the Kubunut guys... we are just sick of KDE HElp Center [15:37] DarkwingDuck: while you're at it: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2010-April/011443.html [15:38] nixternal and I put that together. it was a shared effort from the outset. but then he kind of disappeared for a while [15:39] nixternal is fairly gone these days. [15:40] I've taken over for him in Kubuntu... i don't know who is doing KDE upstream stuff these days [15:40] shaunm: I remember when this happened... I'll review again. [15:42] is Cornelius still doing khelpcenter work? [15:43] KDE has a SoC student doing khelpcenter work this year, right? [15:43] actually, wasn't he going to UDS. j1mc, weren't you meeting up with him? [15:44] shaunm: I know that apachelogger was talking about getting some things. [15:44] changed in khelpcenter [15:46] i have talked with him very briefly, and he attended the docs goals session [15:46] but we haven't talked extensively, and our sessions overlapped today [15:48] ok [15:49] Okay, I've been up all night. I'm crashing [15:50] i do want to still talk with apachelogger, though. [15:52] ok, i found him in kubuntu-devel, and we're making arrangements to meet [15:52] excellent [15:53] (damn hackfests getting in the way of him coming to open help :P) [15:55] yeah [15:55] shaunm: the provonix guy is interested in hosting another openhelp conference in europe. ?? [15:56] he is? [15:56] yeah [15:56] would that be cool w/ you? [15:57] he said he's trying to do a virtual session at your conference, too. [15:57] yeah, he said something about friday evening, which I suppose is his evening, which is our mid-day [15:58] the conference isn't even really happening at that point [15:58] oh, like... it hasn't started yet? [15:58] and we kind of decided not to do a virtual session with mairin (who I really wanted to have there) [15:58] there's a reception friday at 7. that's the start of the conference [15:58] right [15:59] but the reception is just a reception. there's no projector and screens and seats [15:59] yeah [15:59] plus, reception =! conference talk time [15:59] but look, if he's going to do this presentation friday US-mid-day anyway, and it's going to be streamed, I have no problem mentioning that to the OH attendees in an email [15:59] well, i'll let you two iron that out. [16:00] "Getting in early? Go sit in the lounge with your laptop and watch this webcast." [16:00] I'll email him [16:00] with mairin ... we were asking her, but here is someone who really wants to do it. [16:01] I'm kind of concerned about having a second conference though [16:01] it would be great if we could accommodate him somehow [16:01] ok [16:01] what is concerning? [16:02] not trying to be possessive. it's just that the turnout is lower than I'd hoped, and I think with good hype this year, turnout next year can get up to 50 or so. but if there's a second conference, most people won't do both. so that splits the audience [16:03] yeah... that's a good point. i can understand that. [16:04] I would actually love for there to be two well-attended conferences. I just don't think, at this point, that two would be well-attended [16:05] i need to go to apachelogger's thing, but i'll be back on in a little bit [16:14] shaunm: are you still here [16:14] we had a help question in #ubuntu-uds-dery [16:38] jbicha: sure, what's the question? [16:38] they were just wondering about http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gGsetttk-devel-list/2011-April/msg00141.html [16:39] well that link doesn't work [16:39] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2011-April/msg00141.html [16:39] I wasn't really following exactly what they were discussing [16:41] well, it's somewhat technical, has to do with how programmers construct buttons and menus for help [16:42] right now, when a developer creates a help menu, he populates it statically with some entries. usually "Contents" (ugh) and "About" [16:43] with the GHelp API, he'd create a help menu, but wouldn't put anything in it. instead, he'd say "the URI for my help is help:gnome-help, and call this menu 'my-main-menu'" [16:43] and Ubuntu likes to add the launchpad stuff [16:44] then, in our mallard files, we would tag pages. so for any page we want to show up in that menu, we'd add [16:44] I think part of why they were interested is they would rather push 1 patch to gtk than dozens of patches to different apps [16:44] when you launch the app, the help document is read (probably from a cache, for performance), and the menus are populated automatically [16:44] you can talk to them if you like, I'm not really a decisionmaker :-) [16:45] ah, I see [16:45] it's conceivable the help menu could also have a way to automatically add something static like that [16:45] context-sensitive help would be nice but I don't see the context of the Help menu changing that much [16:46] yeah, they just want to be able to insert the program's name so that users can click a button [16:46] to report a problem and it automatically starts the report-bug stuff for that app [16:50] actually, I think there's a lot of potential places to change the tag on the help menu [16:50] there's also a help button in this API. and that could change for e.g. a button in a tabbed dialog [16:51] for menus, consider a program like evolution, a shell for like five different programs [16:52] or a word processor. it could add a tag for table operations if your cursor happens to be in a table, for example [16:52] oh ok [16:52] I'm just used to that never changing :_) [16:52] :-) [16:52] yeah, I like changing everything [19:16] hey guys, the wiki supports using an alternative editor right ? how about reworking fckeditor to produce mallard ?