[00:16] <snap-l> Good eeevening
[00:17] <snap-l> Had my first Blimpie's sub in a long time. And it'll be a long time until I go back to that bBlimpies.
[00:24] <brousch> they killed off all of our blimpies
[00:26] <brousch> tedxgrandrapids tomorrow
[00:26] <brousch> we're down to 1 car and my wife has a kidney stone. what are the odds i actually get to go?
[00:29] <snap-l> Ugh
[00:29] <snap-l> Hope she feels better soon. Been there, done that.
[00:29] <snap-l> Did they put in a stent?
[00:30] <brousch> no, just pain meds and flomax right now
[00:30] <brousch> she has basically slept since midnight last night to now
[00:31] <greg-g> I had a kidney stone once, the drive to the hostpital was the most painful thing in the world (minneapolis roads post-winter tear up and pre-summer patching)
[00:31]  * brousch gets another drink of water
[00:31] <snap-l> Yeah, there's nothing quite like a kidney stone
[12:48] <wolfger> Morning, peeps
[12:49] <wolfger> http://dvice.com/archives/2011/05/man-builds-comp.php#more
[13:22] <snap-l> G'morning
[13:24] <snap-l> That's pretty cool (the custom computer)
[13:25] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/h9521/yesterdays_skype_blog_silverlight_required/
[13:28] <wolfger> so already it's veering away from cross-platform support.... ;-p
[13:58] <snap-l> I think I've figured out why I don't like Gib's use of Big Blue Button
[13:58] <snap-l> Picture an air-tight container with a limited supply of oxygen
[13:58] <snap-l> that is your bandwidth
[13:59] <snap-l> if everyone starts breathing at the same time, you all pass out
[13:59] <wolfger> ok, you hold your breath
[13:59] <snap-l> Gib wants to start a yodeling competition to entertain those who might be outside
[13:59] <wolfger> LOL
[14:00] <snap-l> I mean, conceptually, it's a great idea
[14:01] <snap-l> but in practice, you're already using a scarce resource
[14:02] <snap-l> and overuse just kills the whole enterprise
[14:03] <wolfger> well clearly the problem is the hosting site needs to provide more bandwidth
[14:03] <snap-l> It's not the site
[14:03] <tjagoda> He hosted it locally at penguicon
[14:03] <snap-l> it's using things like hotel bandwidth to start a broadcast stream
[14:04] <snap-l> It's using the ESD bandwidth to broadcast
[14:04] <tjagoda> Ran it over our Cisco network at penguicon
[14:04] <wolfger> *physical* site, not website
[14:04] <wolfger> sorry if I was unclear :-)
[14:04] <snap-l> tjagoda: Yeah, that was a decent idea in theory
[14:05] <snap-l> tjagoda: Maybe if there was a back-channel network (staff, video, guest) that would be awesome
[14:05] <snap-l> again, not bagging on the idea, just the implementation
[14:06] <tjagoda> Thats..what there was
[14:07] <tjagoda> penguicon-staff was a unique SSID which is QoS's over all you other people
[14:07] <tjagoda> But we never ran out of bandwidth on the inside
[14:07] <tjagoda> just the pipe into the intarwebs
[14:07] <snap-l> tjagoda: Right
[14:08] <snap-l> again, using scarce resources. ;)
[14:08] <snap-l> also, it's not just Penguicon that Gib is broadcasting
[14:08] <snap-l> I think he needs to partner with Justin.tv
[14:08] <tjagoda> Unless you want to stream it outside of the hotel, in our case, we we're not scarce
[14:08] <tjagoda> we were*
[14:08] <snap-l> tjagoda: Bingo
[14:09] <tjagoda> When he thought up and pitched the idea, he had it framed as a tool for people inside the event
[14:09] <tjagoda> "Sit in one talk while watching another" kind of thing
[14:09] <tjagoda> I don't think we ever gave him an external IP
[14:09] <snap-l> Split attention = huge win for those who are presenting
[14:09] <tjagoda> (I agree)
[14:10] <tjagoda> Come to Penguicon and present really fast, because if you take to long, we're all on big blue button.
[14:10] <tjagoda> =P
[14:10] <snap-l> heh
[14:11] <tjagoda> So
[14:11] <tjagoda> just got around to reading the differences between 4k and 512b drives
[14:11] <snap-l> Thing is, he's pitched this at just about every event he's at, so I'm talking from a MUG perspective
[14:12] <snap-l> tjagoda: And, what's the conclusion?
[14:12] <tjagoda> Sometimes I read these things and wonder why we didn't do this sooner
[14:12] <snap-l> I had a guy argue with me that tweaking the sector size was so much better, and that 4K blocks were a waste
[14:12] <snap-l> because most of his files were less than 4K
[14:13] <tjagoda> It definitely makes more of an impact on sustained read/write, that's certain
[14:13] <snap-l> He was a complete efficiency nut
[14:13] <tjagoda> large read/write on windows 7 with 4k drives results in almost doubled thruoghput
[14:13] <tjagoda> wow
[14:13] <tjagoda> throughput*
[14:13] <snap-l> Yeah, the benefits of speed outweigh the drawbacks of storage
[14:14] <snap-l> It all depends on your application, frankly
[14:14] <tjagoda> WD claims they'll fit 7-11% more on every platter!
[14:14] <snap-l> if you're running a server with 100K small files, it might add up
[14:14] <tjagoda> So much more room for your <4k files!
[14:15] <snap-l> Heh
[14:15] <tjagoda> looking at my desktop
[14:15] <tjagoda> not counting icons/shortcuts
[14:15] <tjagoda> the smallest file I have is 15kb
[14:16] <tjagoda> With all the bloat and such that we shove into file formats and headers I'd imagine that at least 80% of what I encounter must be larger than 4kb?
[14:16] <snap-l> Again, if you're working with something that's like a mail server or a news server, there's potential for lots of really small files
[14:16] <tjagoda> hmm
[14:17] <snap-l> but most of my files are larger than 4K
[14:17] <tjagoda> Lets see if I can figure out how to see the size of my mails in outlook..
[14:17] <snap-l> His contention was taht if you have a 6K file, you have 2K that's unaddressable
[14:17] <snap-l> tjagoda: Outlook isn't going to work because it stores everything in a .pst file
[14:18] <snap-l> and with modern quoting, even a simple reply of "thank you" takes up 20K.
[14:18] <tjagoda> The headers and such of sectors are still the same in 4k?
[14:18] <tjagoda> You cant bridge thigns into one sector for the efficiency hats?
[14:19] <tjagoda> I do not know that much about how hard disk sectors are mapped
[14:19] <snap-l> I know a little
[14:19] <snap-l> Let's just say I'd rather have the head read 4K at a time than dart around trying to get 512b wherever it can
[14:20] <snap-l> I don't care about losing 1-3K to make sure I get overall good throughput
[14:21] <tjagoda> Truth
[14:21] <tjagoda> And we're also not on the space shuttle with 32 kb total
[14:21] <tjagoda> Cheap storage is cheap
[14:22]  * tjagoda pets the 6TB NAS with Windows Storage Server 2k8
[14:23] <tjagoda> I just got an email from corporate saying all the new Dell machines are moving to 4k advanced drives
[14:24] <wolfger> This is 2 or 3 kinds of ludicrous: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/12/germany.demjanjuk.trial/index.html?hpt=T1
[14:25] <wolfger> It took them 30 years to convict him? He's only getting 6 years prison for 27k+ murders?
[14:25] <snap-l> And he was a POW at the time
[14:26] <wolfger> yeah... I'm tempted to call that ludicrous as well, but I don't know the evidence used in court to find him guilty
[14:26] <tjagoda> They seriously need to stop
[14:26] <tjagoda> Most of those guards were probably victims more than they were evil jew-haters
[14:26] <wolfger> agreed
[14:27] <wolfger> "You will do this, or we will *ahem* replace you, and somebody else will do it."
[14:27] <tjagoda> qft.
[14:27] <snap-l> Well, and it's not like his conviction does anything about those who have been killed
[14:28] <snap-l> Whether it's Osama, or a Ukranian POW Nazi guard
[14:28] <snap-l> I'm sure someone thinks this is just
[14:33] <tjagoda> It's those jewish interest groups which own all the media, snap-l.
[14:33] <tjagoda> =P
[14:33] <snap-l> riiiight
[14:34] <snap-l> Blame George Soros, and you too cna be a political party. ;)
[14:36] <snap-l> http://www.perlbrew.pl/<- Virtualenv hits Perl. :)
[14:40] <ColonelPanic001> I should start my political party again
[14:41] <tjagoda> Does it have to do with sphagetti monsters?
[14:41] <tjagoda> The Party of the Holy Pastafarian?
[14:41] <ColonelPanic001> nein
[14:41] <ColonelPanic001> the red stapler party
[14:43] <ColonelPanic001> running joke from a forum I was on
[14:46] <snap-l> Nice... Just tried perlbrew, and apparently the compiler for 5.12.3 crashed on the machine that I was running it on
[14:55] <wolfger> ColonelPanic001: you're not a member of the Pirate Party? For shame.
[14:55] <ColonelPanic001> :\
[14:58] <snap-l> Anyone using mumble?
[14:59] <ColonelPanic001> only when I speak
[14:59] <rick_h__> I know canonical was using it for meetings/etc
[14:59] <snap-l> If so, please try connecting to lister.decafbad.net
[14:59] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm checking it out
[15:01] <snap-l> wondering if we can use it for podcasting. :)
[15:02] <rick_h__> yea, I've got on my list to look into a mixer and try to do the recording out of that vs the skype call recorder
[15:17] <tjagoda> I use mumble
[15:17] <tjagoda> Mostly for gaming
[15:17] <tjagoda> Not so easy to set up, or in the right format to replace skype
[15:22] <rick_h__> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/FAQ/English#Recording
[15:23] <rick_h__> http://blog.mumble.info/for-the-record/ and that for the details looks good
[15:23] <rick_h__> and a nice ppa: http://blog.mumble.info/mumble-1-2-3-released/
[15:26] <Milyardo> ls
[15:31] <rick_h__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKQS8EDG1P4 watch the first few min awesome
[15:31] <tjagoda> I am loving ESET Smart Security so much more than Symantec Endpoint
[15:31] <tjagoda> Cheaper?  Check.
[15:31] <tjagoda> Better?  Check.
[15:32] <tjagoda> Hogs less resources?  Check!
[15:33] <snap-l> That's awesome, rick_h__
[16:09] <rick_h__> wow, this python talk: youtube gets more than 35hrs of video uploaded every minute
[16:09] <rick_h__> so they have to handle encoding 2100 minutes - 1
[16:11] <krondor> so work just handed me a blackberry playbook to test
[16:12] <rick_h__> enjoy, tjagoda can tell you all about it
[16:13] <tjagoda> <3
[16:14] <krondor> first impression, it's bad.. but I'm still playing maybe I will change my mind.
[16:14] <tjagoda> What gave you that impression?
[16:14] <tjagoda> Everybody I've handed it to is usually receptive and liking of its UI
[16:15] <tjagoda> It's the mail and lack of apps that they furrow their brow upon
[16:15] <krondor> tjagoda:  it doesn't work with our corporate proxy redirect, the way you exit an app once you've launched it is not obvious (but once you learn it meh).  the lack of mail and apps (as you said)
[16:15] <krondor> the lack of password masking on typing (*x for shoulder surfers).
[16:15] <tjagoda> Did you do the startup guide?
[16:16] <tjagoda> When you turn on the playbook it very clearly and definitely tells you whats up
[16:16] <tjagoda> Dunno about proxies.  Only one I've used it behind is the Troy Marriott's
[16:16] <krondor> of course not because I was handed a playbook pre-started
[16:17] <krondor> startup guide isn't in the list of apps either
[16:17] <tjagoda> It is
[16:17] <tjagoda> Its called "setup"
[16:17] <tjagoda> Then "tablet basics" once you're in it
[16:18] <krondor> anyway, that's not a menu choice startup guide, but that's semantics anyway.
[16:19] <tjagoda> Usually it auto-launches on firstboot, so you ideally never have to go back and manually open it
[16:19] <tjagoda> But you've gone all funky
[16:19] <tjagoda> =P{
[16:19] <tjagoda> Multitasking between stuff with side bezel swips is a breeze though
[16:19] <snap-l> Well, Google voice failed 18 minutes into a conference call
[16:20] <krondor> that's how most people here would be handed one I'm assuming.  That's how they're handed a BB.  A desktop tech already configures things and gives it to them.
[16:20] <tjagoda> probably my favorite thing about the UI
[16:20] <krondor> snap-l:  I've stopped using Google Voice for conference calls lately :(
[16:20] <snap-l> Replacing Skype is going to be hard
[16:20] <tjagoda> Oops
[16:20] <krondor> it's webosy UI (cards for apps), some things seem slick, some are annoying.  How the hell do I go back a menu in setup?
[16:21] <tjagoda> in the tablet basics thing?
[16:21] <Milyardo> snap-l: Replacing skype for what purpose?
[16:21] <krondor> tjagoda:  in the wifi submenu of setup
[16:22] <tjagoda> There's a back button on the wifi config menus I think
[16:22] <tjagoda> or it autocloses once you hit enter
[16:23] <tjagoda> I can't remember which screen your in, setup was a long time ago
[16:23] <krondor> don't see it, and when you configure it dumps you back into the wifi list.  I just killed the app and relaunched it.  More playing is needed.  I'm curious about the Linux underpinnings.
[16:24] <tjagoda> afk, supposed to go celebrate nameless employee's 10 years of service
[16:25] <_stink_> hope for cake
[16:26] <snap-l> Milyardo: looking into alternatives
[16:29] <Milyardo> How were you using skype before>
[16:29] <Milyardo> ?
[16:29] <snap-l> I'd use it to join 800-number conference calls
[16:29] <Milyardo> a simple asterisk server should work then right?
[16:30] <snap-l> Milyardo: Do you normally offer seeds and dirt to people who come over for dinner? :)
[16:31] <Milyardo> Haha, I forget Asterisk is arcane to those who haven't configured one on a somewhat regular basis
[16:32] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm just looking for something to act like a speakerphone
[16:32] <snap-l> I have one, but it's nice to not have to tie up the home phone
[16:33] <Milyardo> buy the hosted asterisk account then I guess, like what callcentric offers or something
[16:35] <snap-l> Yeah, I'll need to do more investigation
[16:35] <snap-l> I already have VOIP via WOW!, so I'm not so concerned about that
[16:40] <Milyardo> So you just need a SIP client then? Good luck with that, they all suck
[16:42] <snap-l> Well, I'd like one for each
[16:42] <snap-l> and yes, I've tried Gizmo / Ekiga, and they're God-awful
[16:43] <Milyardo> Indeed
[16:46] <tjagoda> http://www.nch.com.au/talk/index.html
[16:46] <tjagoda> That's pretty good
[16:46] <tjagoda> ..in windows..
[16:47] <snap-l> Yeah, Skype filled the niche so perfectly that replacements are few and far between
[16:49] <tjagoda> http://www.sjlabs.com/sjp.html
[16:49] <tjagoda> There's SJPhone as well
[16:49] <snap-l> Um, no
[16:49] <Milyardo> snap-l: More like VOIP is so patent incumbered that Skype is the only one who bought enough liscensing to provide a client more functional than what you'd expect from applications in 1997
[16:49] <snap-l> Not getting into some bullshit multi-level marketing. :)
[16:50] <tjagoda> SJPhone is not multi level?
[16:51] <snap-l> tjagoda: When your website has news reviews, that's a HUGE red-flag for me
[16:52] <tjagoda> Only other recommendation is X-Lite
[16:52] <tjagoda> I think SJPhone is in business with MagicJack
[17:04] <snap-l> http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ#My_Ekiga_account_doesn.27t_work.
[18:07] <snap-l> I think I've bought more CDs in the past 2 months than I have in the past year
[18:13] <wolfger> you've bought CD's?
[18:14] <wolfger> do they still make CD's?
[18:14] <snap-l> Yes, yes they do
[18:14] <wolfger> everything now is MP3
[18:15] <wolfger> so that the studios can ream you for something that costs them virtually nothing, and you don't even get to own anything after you pay them
[18:17] <wolfger> Hmm. I think I need to have a sit-down with some auto execs. I have a new business model for them. "Instead of buying a vehicle, you're buying the rights to use a vehicle. Those rights are non-transferable, so if you want to drive a new vehicle, you will have to acquire new rights, and you cannot resell the old rights to somebody else."
[18:17] <wolfger> It's like Lease++
[18:17] <wolfger> except really Lease-- for the consumer
[18:18] <wolfger> since they will have to pay the full license price
[18:19] <Milyardo> You forgot the part of the lease where they arbitrarily define use and change the terms later
[18:19] <wolfger> alternatively, maybe I could talk some music execs into the idea of leasing music
[18:20] <Milyardo> "What's that you used public transport? Lease Terminated."
[18:20] <wolfger> you pay per month per song until you no longer like the song, at which point you can buy out the remainder of your lease while we talk you into leasing a new song.
[18:21] <wolfger> there's business models to be exploited here...
[18:21] <wolfger> and people are getting used to not owning anything. That's the scary part. We're willingly returning to the feudal system, where only the rich and powerful actually own anything
[18:24] <snap-l> Sorry, but MP3s don't sound as good as CDs
[18:24] <snap-l> And don't get me started on the vinyl folks. :)
[18:24] <wolfger> and CD's don't sound as good as vinyl
[18:24] <wolfger> oops. too late
[18:24] <Milyardo> FLAC ftw?
[18:25] <snap-l> "Yeah, I'm sure my CDs sound like shit compared to your vinyl on a crosley POS turn table that sounds like you're dragging a blckboard along the record"
[18:26] <wolfger> honestly, I can't tell the diff between a good MP3 and a CD. Except the MP3 never gets scratched
[18:26] <snap-l> wolfger: I accept your challenge. :)
[18:26] <wolfger> and CD sounds better than vinyl, until they both get scratched, at which point you can still play the vinyl with a penny weighing down the needle, but the CD is hosed.
[18:27] <snap-l> wolfger: Um, no
[18:27] <snap-l> Vinyl gets pops and clicks
[18:27] <snap-l> Cds get minor drop-outs
[18:27] <snap-l> (that is, if you have good equipment)
[18:27] <wolfger> CD's get "disc not found"
[18:28] <snap-l> Maybe if you didn't play shuffleboard with your CDs, this wouldn't be a problem.
[18:28] <wolfger> Yes, well, I keep threatening to beat Allison for not putting CDs back in the case, but threats are not working.
[18:29] <snap-l> Seriously, if you mistreated your vinyl like folks mistreat CDs, you'd never be able to play anything on it
[18:29] <wolfger> possibly
[18:29] <wolfger> but my point is: MP3 uber alles
[18:30] <snap-l> For the walkman crowd, yes.
[18:30] <snap-l> for the folks that listen to music, not quite. ;)
[18:30] <snap-l> FLAC FTW
[18:30] <wolfger> for any crowd
[18:30] <wolfger> FLAC, MP3, same thing
[18:30] <wolfger> non-physical media FTW
[18:30] <snap-l> OMG, you did NOT say that. :)
[18:31] <wolfger> ROFL
[18:31] <wolfger> you bet your seatbelt I did.
[18:33] <wolfger> I think I need to write Mythbusters a suggestion
[18:33] <wolfger> and have them test the various music myths audiophiles dream up
[18:34]  * snap-l is going to give you a test. ;)
[18:39] <wolfger> is it multiple choice?
[18:39] <krondor> that's a good mythbusters
[18:40] <wolfger> krondor: they would get so many e-mails from people complaining about the results
[18:42] <krondor> why did you use the x it has a y? Everyone knows that you'll get the best sound from c but only in a clean room inside a vacuum on the solstice!
[18:42] <wolfger> heh
[18:43] <wolfger> They will say something sounded better than something else, and a bunch of people who all listened to it via their TV speaker(s) will say "those both sounded exactly the same!"
[18:44] <snap-l> OK, I'm uploading two versions of Vivaldi's Four Seasons - Springtime
[18:44] <snap-l> Both came from a FLAC source, but one was mp3 encoded (VBR, quality 0)
[18:44] <snap-l> same as what I use with Lococast.
[18:45] <snap-l> both files were then turned back into wav files
[18:45] <snap-l> I want you to tell me which file sounds better.
[18:45] <wolfger> ...and if we get that on Mythbusters, maybe we can get Adam to sneak Jonothan Coultan's "Re: Your brains" into the show... XD
[18:46] <wolfger> snap-l: OK, but it will have to wait til I get off work
[18:47] <snap-l> no problem. I'll leave them up for as long as you want
[18:49] <jrwren> snap-l: not everyone has your ears.
[18:49] <jrwren> and lame V0 is VERY close to FLAC for most peoples ears.
[18:49] <snap-l> I know. :)
[18:50] <jrwren> but I've done the blind listening test and guessed FLAC over V0 :)
[18:50] <jrwren> it was not easy though.
[18:50] <snap-l> Yeah, there's subtleties
[18:50] <jrwren> i had to relisten and seek back to the parts I thought i heard quality degredation
[18:50] <jrwren> if it was just a short cilp and I could not seek, i'd not have been able to make a judgement
[18:51] <Milyardo> jrwren: Just means your volume isn't high enough
[18:51] <Milyardo> Vivaldi is worthy of only max volume imo
[18:53] <greg-g> snap-l: where are these files?
[18:53] <snap-l> Uploading
[18:53] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/ss7/ <- Sample 1
[18:54] <snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/ssC/ <- Sample 2
[18:54] <snap-l> (still uploading 2)
[19:03] <snap-l> OK, it's uploaded
[19:15] <jrwren> no, it doesn't mean my volume isn't high enough.
[19:15] <jrwren> and the point is??? FLAC > lame v0 ?  I alread know this, I don't need to take this test :)
[19:16] <wolfger> the test is for me, jrwren
[19:16] <wolfger> because I said they were the same thing
[19:16] <snap-l> right
[19:17] <jrwren> right.
[19:17] <wolfger> although I don't know what this V0 crap is....
[19:17] <snap-l> Highest quality lame
[19:17] <wolfger> ah
[19:17] <snap-l> Variable Bit Rate, quality level 0 (best quality)
[19:19] <wolfger> where I come from, "quality level 0" means no quality :-p
[19:20] <snap-l> Yeah, it's backwards
[19:21] <wolfger> need new foam hands for the big game... "We're #0!"
[19:23] <wolfger> Epic FAIL. I just got a work e-mail with a link to an intranet site.
[19:24] <wolfger> I tried to access it 3 times, and got 3 *different* 500 errors
[19:24] <rick_h__> ok, this doesn't give me faith in how LP is put together: http://blog.launchpad.net/performance/launchpad-answers-is-faster
[19:25] <wolfger> aren't they scrapping that in favor of AskUbuntu anyway?
[19:25] <wolfger> :-p
[19:29] <jrwren> http://www.whatinterviewprep.com/preparefortheinterview.html   and  http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lame#Recommended_encoder_settings
[19:30] <jrwren> I like "Audible differences between these presets exist, but are rare. "  WRT V0-V3  I can tell big diff between V0 and V2 even
[19:38] <rick_h__> hah, man Canonical just gets things fired up: http://www.advogato.org/person/mjg59/diary.html?start=296
[19:39] <greg-g> rick_h__: wow! (re: the LP answers email thing)
[19:40] <rick_h__> greg-g: it seems a pretty basic 101 "we're building a big service" kind of thing doesn't it?
[19:40] <rick_h__> I mean, how many years has that been going on and no one noticed?
[19:42] <greg-g> no kidding
[19:42] <greg-g> I mean, *I* even know that. Queue up email sending.
[19:50] <snap-l> apparently I need to get some ant traps
[19:55] <snap-l> There's a web cast at work, and someone is standing right in front of the camera
[19:55] <snap-l> I think he's talking to the camera-operator
[19:56] <ColonelPanic001> brilliant
[19:57] <snap-l> Heh, this is brillant
[20:25] <krondor> so much for playing with the playbook, someone already nabbed it.  I expect it will make it's way back to me in a few weeks.
[20:40] <binbrain> http://cnj.craigslist.org/web/2308566632.html
[20:40] <binbrain> any takers?
[20:41] <jrwren> rofl.
[20:41] <rick_h__> sweet
[20:41] <rick_h__> but I don't know if I'm professional enough
[20:42] <jrwren> i'm so professional that I don't work for chump changes.
[20:50] <snap-l> I'm seeing HP really trying like hell to make WebOS fly
[20:51] <snap-l> That makes me happy
[20:51] <snap-l> We need a third player that isn't Microsoft. ;)
[20:54] <rick_h__> come on december
[20:55] <rick_h__> though I think at this point it wouldn't be a webos phone, too bought into my google/android happiness
[20:59] <snap-l> Yeah, there's a lot of lead in Android / iOS
[22:21] <snap-l> We need more Cory Doctorows in this world
[22:21] <snap-l> people who can eloquently explain why DRM and trusted computing are not good for consumers
[22:22] <snap-l> http://www.miroguide.com/items/4037324
[22:26] <jrwren> and do nothing about it? ;)
[22:26] <snap-l> That's kinda harsh. :)