[02:24] <coz_>  hey all
[15:08] <vish> !ping
[15:08] <ubot2> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
[15:08] <akshatj> vish: Y U NO papercuts leader anymore?
[15:09] <vish> akshatj: ME TOO OLD FOR THIS $#!t ;p
[15:11] <akshatj> vish: ah, the evil doctor is getting old
[15:12] <akshatj> :P
[15:14] <vish> akshatj: it was more, that OMG gets more hits when we blog and it makes no sense duplicating the same work..
[15:17] <akshatj> vish: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/open-source-designer-izo-talks-tools-design-tips-and-talent
[16:16]  * mainerror waves
[18:32] <thorwil> is there a vm option that allows one to see unity in all its glory (not 2d fallback)?
[18:36] <leoquant> vm and direct rendering? don't know...
[18:45] <coz_> thorwil,  last I heard  Unity wont work in vm  but that my have changed
[18:49] <troy_s> thorwil: In all its glory it is so crustily clunky performance wise that I can't imagine it in a VM.
[18:49] <troy_s> Greets all.
[18:50] <thorwil> troy_s: hi. "all its glory" was actual a bait just for you ;)
[18:51] <troy_s> thorwil: It worked.
[18:51] <troy_s> thorwil: Although if I read one more post on ZOMFGUbuntu with "good" "ugly" "beautiful" "consumer oriented" or other empty crap terms I'll explode.
[18:52] <troy_s> thorwil: The longer I live, the longer I realize that there is a tremendous chasm that isn't exactly being spanned elegantly.
[18:52] <troy_s> (there I used one)
[18:53] <troy_s> vish has entered the room.
[18:56] <thorwil> troy_s: the consumer orientation of zomgubuntu is an ugly sight, lacking any elegance even when discussing matters of usability and with your sense for beauty  and susceptibility for exploding, you should stay away :)
[18:59] <thorwil> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/12/how-to-test-ubuntu-1104-with-unity-in.html
[19:04] <troy_s> thorwil: The rather uh... poor optics of breaking Wacom support is of significant voice personally.
[19:05] <troy_s> thorwil: Just a ball of frustration really.
[19:05] <thorwil> troy_s: over time, the feeling that a lot of things are not like they should be has been growing, but i'm also learning that feeling anger and frustration is pointless, except in the rare case you can act on it in a productive way
[19:06] <troy_s> thorwil: I was just about to type something like that.
[19:06] <coz_> troy_s,  hey guy
[19:06] <troy_s> thorwil: The gut response is to just blame idiocy, but it isn't idiocy. It's just ... unfortunate.
[19:06] <troy_s> coz_: Cozzie. How are things.
[19:06] <troy_s> ?
[19:06] <coz_> troy_s,  not bad ,, how's yourself?
[19:07] <thorwil> troy_s: there is an ubuntu/unity specific issue with wacom support? i though linux-wacom itself dropped serial support
[19:07] <troy_s> thorwil: I suppose it speaks back to really focusing on a particular strategy. Everything to everyone will hopefully, as a result of hard learnt experience, result in exposing it as the path of fools and charlatanism.
[19:07] <coz_> are we talking about Unity here?
[19:08] <troy_s> thorwil: There is a very specific post that was directly related to it. The bigger issue is that I can't actually even try it really... it's so busted with certain things like Blender and such that it's just a mess.
[19:08] <troy_s> thorwil: And the chances of anyone really giving things a second try are ... well ... I think history likely reveals the poor optics of that belief.
[19:08] <troy_s> coz_: Been moderately busy. Just slowing down a bit now thankfully.
[19:09] <coz_> troy_s,  cool,, rest is always important
[19:09] <coz_> well it seems that in most ubuntu related channel ,,  there is an overwhelming negativity about Unity
[19:10] <troy_s> coz_: Never average.
[19:10] <troy_s> coz_: But I believe the result is a direct problem with averaging. If a target is at nine and one at three, and you average, the aim would land at 6. Missing both.
[19:11] <troy_s> coz_: Have you seen Malcom Gladwell's piece on that?
[19:11] <troy_s> coz_: Sheer brilliance that everyone in Libre should watch.
[19:11] <coz_> troy_s,  no ,, I havent ,, i wouldnt mind seeing however
[19:11] <troy_s> http://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html
[19:11] <troy_s> coz_: In particular, pay close attention to the number 18 at the end.
[19:11] <troy_s> coz_: I won't spoil it.
[19:12] <troy_s> coz_: But it is based on real world models and explorations.
[19:12] <coz_> cool watching now
[19:12] <troy_s> coz_: Beautifully sums up so much.
[19:17] <troy_s> coz_: I feel warm and fuzzy when I listen to this.
[19:17] <coz_> troy_s,  i like him  :)
[19:17] <troy_s> 05:00 sums up all of the current growing pains with Libre.
[19:18] <troy_s> (And the fact that there are still hegemony circles that truly _believe_ that there is some grandiose notion of 'good' or 'bad' or 'usability')
[19:19] <troy_s> It disheartens me when I see this not because the belief exists, but because people of such brilliant mental makeup haven't or are unwilling to examine the foundation.
[19:19] <coz_> troy_s,  which kinda of "qualifies"  their  "brilliant mental makeup" ...yes?
[19:19] <troy_s> coz_: I don't believe so. Maybe used to. I don't see they. I see me. I'm prone to the same thing.
[19:20] <coz_> troy_s, still,,, if these " brilliant mental makeup"  people were that brilliant,,, they would not have missed the mark,,
[19:20] <troy_s> coz_: It's about factoring the thinking in such a way that the audience can comprehend the possibility that the current working model may have alternate models that could provide more productive (needs citation) outcomes.
[19:20] <troy_s> coz_: Don't let me interrupt... watch it.
[19:21] <coz_> ok
[19:25] <troy_s> 13:28
[19:26] <troy_s> Someone please tell me that they can't see the glaring similarity to Libre software?
[19:26] <troy_s> And the obvious connection to the audience. It isn't just about diversity, it is about carefully guided diversity.
[19:26] <coz_> troy_s,  so far this reminds me of linux in general actually
[19:27] <troy_s> coz_: It's absolutely brilliant.
[19:27] <troy_s> "Cooking Universals"
[19:27] <coz_> :)
[19:29] <troy_s> 15:38 "The movement from the search for universals to the understanding of variability."
[19:29] <coz_> troy_s,  absolutely :)
[19:30] <troy_s> coz_: The end is awesome. 18.
[19:30] <coz_> excellent :)
[19:30] <troy_s> 16:34. Awesome.
[19:31] <coz_> troy_s,  this applies  to many aspects of like,, very buddhistic
[19:31] <troy_s> "In embracing the diversity of human beings we will find a way to true happiness." Lovely ending.
[19:31] <coz_> life
[19:32] <troy_s> coz_: It's an emotionally engaging presentation. I think it works tremendously well to communicate to a good number of Libre folks.
[19:32] <troy_s> Anyways... off to photocopy. Yay. Can't wait.
[19:32] <troy_s> LOL
[19:32] <troy_s> Fantastic seeing you all again. Chat soon.
[19:32] <coz_> troy_s,  :)
[19:32] <coz_> troy_s,  TED  is one of my favorites
[19:32] <coz_> troy_s,   excellent video presentation
[19:32] <coz_> gah
[19:32] <coz_> ubuntu should listen carefully to that one
[19:33] <thorwil> great presentation, indeed
[19:33] <thorwil> i'd say a lot of such clustering already happens in libre software, but only in cases where people create something for themselves