[02:48] <Kokito> howdy
[02:50] <holstein> Kokito: o/
[02:50] <Kokito> hey holstein 
[02:56] <Kokito> day of big announcement, eh? :)
[02:57] <holstein> yeah :)
[02:57] <holstein> im stoked
[02:57] <holstein> some silliness though
[02:58] <holstein> like samba support
[02:58] <holstein> that that is somehow connected to the DE
[02:58] <holstein> but, whatever
[02:58] <holstein> im sure we'll win some and lose some
[03:05] <Kokito> there is no perfect world :)
[03:05] <Kokito> Sakamoto-san does make some valid points, though
[03:10] <holstein> sure
[03:10] <holstein> but, gnome2 is going away
[03:10] <holstein> its just a matter of when
[03:11] <holstein> and *if* we all decide that gnome3 and unity are not appropriate
[03:11] <holstein> which we seem to have decided that
[03:11] <holstein> then, we are really just getting prepared
[03:11] <holstein> for the future
[03:13] <Kokito> I just wonder if it would not be worth giving Unity an opportunity to evolve
[03:13] <holstein> sure
[03:13] <holstein> but, we had talked about it
[03:13] <holstein> and decided that we wouldnt really like that either
[03:13] <holstein> assuming it evolved
[03:14] <Kokito> I see :)
[03:14] <holstein> Kokito: but, i see what you mean
[03:14] <holstein> i think, in the long term
[03:14] <holstein> going to XFCE keeps things more like they are now
[03:15] <holstein> which is arguably more appropriate for ubuntustudio
[03:15] <holstein> we could always move to unity if we wanted*
[03:15] <Kokito> right
[03:16] <holstein> im really enjoying a recent dual monitor setup i got going :)
[03:18] <Kokito> nice!
[03:18] <Kokito> I read the news that 11.10 will not have a video editor by default
[03:19] <holstein> yeah
[03:19] <holstein> why should it really
[03:19] <holstein> is that a common needed task?
[03:19] <holstein> i think its kinda nice
[03:19] <holstein> it'll save some space on the iso though
[03:19] <Kokito> I think a light video editor would not hurt
[03:20] <Kokito> what video editors does US include?
[03:20] <holstein> i need to look at openshot
[03:20] <holstein> Kokito: thats a good question
[03:20] <Kokito> yeah, I was reading about it myself
[03:20] <holstein> i havent looked at the -video metapackage in a while
[03:20] <Kokito> I should install US :)
[03:21] <holstein> i have both
[03:21] <Kokito> ok, sorry, but have to go
[03:21] <Kokito> will probably be back online later
[03:21] <holstein> Kokito: laterx :)
[08:17] <Kokito> just finished dinner past midnight...
[13:39] <scott-work> new blog post for those interested:  http://dullass.blogspot.com/2011/05/ubuntu-studio-moving-to-xfce.html
[13:40] <scott-work> TheMuso:  did you manage to talk to andy yet about the -lowlatency kernel or is this too early?
[14:44] <scott-work> i sometimes think that kenneth who posts to the mailing list is a troll :/
[15:02] <holstein> scott-work: is that ralf ?
[15:03] <holstein> nm
[15:04] <holstein> i see kenneth koym's post
[15:19] <holstein> scott-work: see, i think in your blog
[15:19] <holstein> As most reading this blog should be aware, Ubuntu has recently moved from using GNOME 2
[15:19] <holstein> even that isnt true
[15:19] <holstein> i mean, it is
[15:19] <holstein> but thats not the point
[15:20] <holstein> gnome is moving from using gnome2
[15:20] <holstein> gnome2 is EOL
[15:23] <scott-work> i can understand ralf's post, and you are right, i don't think he knew about gnome2 EOL and ubuntu moving away from it...that's cool :)
[15:23] <scott-work> holstein: ^^^
[15:24] <scott-work> but i have a hard time with kenneth because he seems to be slightly "out there" with cryptic statements that border on conspiracy theories and little to base his charged or explosive statements
[15:24] <scott-work> granted, i engaged in a little hyperboly when describing kenneth's comments, but that's how i feel it comes across
[15:24] <holstein> scott-work: i asked for clarification
[15:25] <holstein> from kenneth
[15:25] <scott-work> i don't expec thim to respond (if he follows previous patterns )
[15:25] <holstein> i didnt understand his statement at all
[15:25] <scott-work> yeah, i didn't either
[15:26] <scott-work> but it seems that people who write the way he does, kinda rambling without clear breaks between statements, themes, or concepts, also think that way
[15:26] <scott-work> and perhaps his thougths aren't all that logical (or moderted by inhibitions) either
[15:26] <holstein> its challenging
[15:26] <holstein> this is *not* the first post about xfce
[15:26] <holstein> and the move
[15:27] <holstein> the one about samba
[15:27] <holstein> i mean
[15:27] <holstein> that was well thought out
[15:27] <holstein> clear
[15:27] <holstein> to the point
[15:27] <holstein> a decent argument
[15:27] <scott-work> but even if it was the first post, most of his statements still do not hold water
[15:27] <holstein> i didt like that either since buntu in general should all have the same samba
[15:27] <holstein> and ability to use samba
[15:28] <holstein> still, i understand that post
[15:28] <scott-work> holstein: oh yeah, there have been some great posts in this thread (and not just the one's who say it's a good idea ;P ) and have been backed by solid arguements or descriptive feelings/understandings
[15:28] <holstein> the default applications argument
[15:28] <holstein> its the FUD though
[15:29] <holstein> looks like ralf got home from work
[15:29] <holstein> and just started firing off at each comment ;)
[15:29] <scott-work> while i think that certain concerns were valid earlier over kde apps rendering well in gnome and gnome rendering well in xfce might have been true in the past, i do not believe it is the same anymore
[15:29] <scott-work> holstein: LOL, yeah
[15:30] <holstein> scott-work: also, the change from KDE to KDE4 is not in any way similar to the change from gnome2 to gnome3
[15:30] <scott-work> some has posited that i might be in terms of usability
[15:31] <scott-work> that is, it would lack usability because some (most?) functionality was broken
[15:31] <scott-work> but i don't think this will be the case
[15:31] <holstein> LXDE is like gnome-light :)
[15:32] <scott-work> my understanding is the kde4 really, really was broken for a majority of items...some accused it of being a developer release rather than a full blown release
[15:32] <scott-work> s/the/that
[15:32] <holstein> totally
[15:32] <holstein> im more thinking now
[15:32] <scott-work> i've played around with kde4 lately and i think since 4.6 they really have gotten things together
[15:32] <holstein> when its stable
[15:32] <holstein> compating KDE4.6 with KDE3
[15:33] <scott-work> holstein: regarding LXDE...i've tried a few distros with it and i find it ugly
[15:33] <holstein> comparing*
[15:33] <scott-work> i think xfce has a very simple elegence compared to lxde
[15:33] <holstein> you could say KDE is a prettier, newer version of KDE
[15:33] <holstein> whereas gnome3
[15:33] <holstein> thats a workflow change
[15:34] <holstein> from gnome2
[15:34] <holstein> anyways...
[15:34] <scott-work> i know you like lxde and i'm not trying to be mean, but lxde just isn't me :P
[15:34] <holstein> yeah, LXDE is nice and light
[15:34] <holstein> but i think XFCE is much more polished in everyway
[15:34] <scott-work> i find gnome3 much closer to supporting an audio workflow than unity
[15:34] <scott-work> i simply do not enjoy navigating the desktop with unity....at all
[15:34] <holstein> i heard jono's interview on the linux action show
[15:35] <holstein> in defending unity
[15:35] <scott-work> if i kept both hands on the keyboard at all times then it would be as big a deal
[15:35] <holstein> personally, i think unity *is* great
[15:35] <scott-work> screw jono, he's got to carry the company line in this
[15:35] <holstein> and i think what the buntu team did in the short amount of time is awesome
[15:35] <holstein> but, i have to agree with lunduke
[15:35] <scott-work> now if someone from fedora was defending unity, that would be something :)
[15:35] <holstein> why not just customize gnome3?
[15:36] <holstein> scott-work: hehe
[15:36] <scott-work> oh yeah, the team made awesome progress in the short time
[15:36] <scott-work> but to me it does seem to be a bit of gnome3-lite
[15:36] <scott-work> but i think the important issue is that unity (and ubuntu) will be moving to wayland
[15:36] <holstein> as customizations get added
[15:36] <holstein> i think it will seem more full-featured
[15:37] <scott-work> and i don't think gnome3 is ready to do that...perhaps i'm wrong though
[15:37] <holstein> yeah, everybody will eventually go to wayland
[15:37] <scott-work> i wouldn't be surprised though, if the delta between gnome3 and unity decreases over time
[15:37] <scott-work> gnome3 has some great functionaly that unity doesn't have now and i can't see them not incorporating these things over time
[15:39] <scott-work> again, i think gnome3 more closely supports our desired work flow better than unity
[15:39] <holstein> i think, if unity wasnt happening though
[15:39] <holstein> and ubuntu was running gnome3
[15:39] <holstein> we would still be talking about and moving to XFCE
[15:40] <scott-work> qutie possibly
[15:40] <scott-work> i've been giving some serious thought to various things:  the purpose of ubuntu studio, who we support, how long will i be lead
[15:40] <scott-work> i think ubuntu studio shouldn't make ground breaking changes like ubuntu did with unity
[15:41] <scott-work> i think our palce is to provide a stable environment for users to create art
[15:41] <holstein> agreed
[15:41] <scott-work> i don't even like some of the small, minor changes between each release
[15:41] <holstein> even some of the ML questions
[15:41] <holstein> like samba
[15:41] <scott-work> yeah
[15:41] <holstein> im a bit like 'who cares'
[15:41] <holstein> thats not what US is about
[15:41] <scott-work> why should i HAVE to relearn my desktop each six months because something stupid changed
[15:41] <holstein> as long as we have the official repos, which we have to do
[15:41] <scott-work> but then again, that's why i've been rocking the LTS version mostly
[15:42] <holstein> then, folkds can get whatever they want going on easy enough
[15:42] <scott-work> i'm defintely going to do a blog post about my feelings in this regard
[15:42] <scott-work> eventually :P
[15:42] <holstein> scott-work: yeah, i thought about responding to that
[15:42] <holstein> since, i am running 10.04
[15:42] <holstein> as well
[15:42] <scott-work> but
[15:42] <holstein> and am still not considering moving my production machine yet
[15:43] <holstein> however, testing and preparing for 12.04
[15:43] <holstein> thats important
[15:43] <scott-work> yeah, me too...i've already backed up stuff and should install natty this weekend
[15:43] <holstein> and we have a lot of work to do
[15:43] <scott-work> oh, i misread what you said
[15:43] <holstein> yeah, i have testing boxes
[15:43] <scott-work> i thought you said you WERE going to move your production box
[15:43] <holstein> that i'll run 11.10 on 
[15:43] <holstein> ASAP
[15:44] <scott-work> for what i do i feel comfortable moving to 11.04
[15:44] <holstein> yeah, thats just my decision
[15:44] <holstein> i dont feel like its 'unstable' really
[15:44] <scott-work> i belive 11.04 provides significant improvements although some may be considered trivial
[15:44] <holstein> its more just being comfortable with the packages
[15:44] <holstein> and how it works
[15:44] <scott-work> yeah, i understand
[15:45] <scott-work> but if we openly declared that each release would be wild and varied and MIGHT NOT WORK and would have the latest, crazy shit...
[15:45] <scott-work> BUT, would keep the LTS very, very stable and sane
[15:45] <holstein> hehe
[15:45] <scott-work> then i could see people being more open to things
[15:45] <holstein> jono talked about that
[15:45] <holstein> for the main release
[15:46] <holstein> how thats not really clear
[15:46] <scott-work> and i wouldn't feel that we needed to be stable, and consistent, and stable for the users
[15:46] <holstein> whats the difference in the LTS's and non LTS's
[15:46] <holstein> they are not really 'testing' releases
[15:46] <holstein> and not reall 'stable' either
[15:46] <scott-work> sort of like development relelases i guess
[15:46] <holstein> he was implying that the higher-ups were trying to sort that out
[15:46] <holstein> and make it more clear
[15:47] <holstein> i mean, to a normal user
[15:47] <scott-work> where is this interview?  i think i'd like to listen to it
[15:47] <holstein> or someone running OSX or win
[15:47] <holstein> its just *not* possible to communicate what these different releases are
[15:47]  * holstein looking
[15:48] <scott-work> but the system of LTS every two years is a bit of a detraction to me
[15:48] <scott-work> things change SOOO much during that time
[15:48] <scott-work> desktops get sexier, better looking, providing more functionality and performance
[15:48] <scott-work> in the corporate world i guess it wouldn't matter as much
[15:49] <scott-work> but i stayed with hardy until lucid was ready
[15:49] <holstein> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/7902/jono-talks-natty/
[15:49] <scott-work> and holy shit it was a change
[15:49] <holstein> yeah, i feel like i need to keep my finger on the pulse
[15:49] <holstein> and see whats changing along the way
[15:50] <holstein> hardy to lucid
[15:50] <scott-work> ew, it's an hour long video...i'll save the link and listen to it later since i'm leaving work soon
[15:50] <holstein> thats quite a change
[15:50] <holstein> scott-work: i get the audio version
[15:50] <holstein> on my droid
[15:51] <holstein> jono had better respond to my email soon ;)
[15:51] <scott-work> i'll see if i can get it on freedom hating itunes
[15:51] <scott-work> call him out in other places :P
[15:51] <holstein> he says a couple times 'i dont care what people use as long as its open'
[15:51] <scott-work> i should even blog about it too :)
[15:51] <holstein> im going to keep my eye on the prize though
[15:51] <holstein> i just want him to help US
[15:51] <holstein> however
[15:52] <scott-work> downloading it now on my freedome hating iphone
[15:52] <holstein> he's too high profile in music *not* to be talking about US
[15:52] <scott-work> i agree wholeheartedly
[15:53] <holstein> breakfast.. BB
[15:55] <scott-work> i'm leaving work in five minutes as well :)
[17:46] <ScottL> i'm not responding to kenneth anymore regarding this matter
[17:47] <ScottL> oh, and thanks holstein for the link to that interview with jono, he should have been doing this sort of thing before
[18:11] <ScottL> holstein, maybe we should up the intensity on jono for using non-free applications for audio AND not even offering suggestions to us
[18:12] <ScottL> that interview (which i haven't finished) seemed to want to give him a hard time with his mixer and i thought...
[18:12] <ScottL> what if many people blogged questioning him about what he does without offering suggestions for improvements
[18:12] <ScottL> what if podcasts discussed it too
[18:12] <ScottL> what if enough people emailed him asking him about it
[18:13] <ScottL> would it build enough momentum to publicly force him to do something?
[19:12] <holstein> ScottL: thats the problem though
[19:13] <holstein> he has been asked about using open solutions for audio production
[19:13] <holstein> and said that its not up to par
[19:13] <holstein> and thats not cool
[19:13] <holstein> i dont necessarily feel like jono does
[19:13] <holstein> where, i dont care as long as people use open tools
[19:13] <holstein> i think folks should use what works for them
[19:13] <holstein> even jono
[19:13] <holstein> BUT, by saying its not up to par
[19:13] <holstein> thats bad
[19:14] <holstein> i equate that to his uphill battle
[19:14] <holstein> selling folks on ubuntu desktop use
[19:14] <holstein> and getting the normal 'its not up to par because of MS integration'
[19:14] <holstein> or whatever
[19:14] <holstein> which, we all know is not true
[19:14] <holstein> BUT
[19:14] <holstein> at the same time
[19:15] <holstein> if you are a desktop user in a community that used .doc's
[19:15] <holstein> you need MS office to have the easiest and most compatible experience
[19:15] <holstein> and thats fine
[19:15] <ScottL> but if he would at least offer suggestions where it is deficient then at least he's helping
[19:15] <holstein> BUT, its one of jono's jobs to change that viewpoint
[19:15] <holstein> ScottL: exactly
[19:16] <holstein> a person of his community envolvment
[19:16] <holstein> he could actually get things fixed
[19:16] <holstein> i see he is hiring a developer
[19:16] <holstein> thats all i want
[19:16] <holstein> i want jono to help us get to a higher profile
[19:16] <ScottL> right, so we overwhelm him with peer pressure to do _something_ to help
[19:16] <holstein> so we can have a full time cannonical paid studio dev
[19:16] <holstein> ScottL: thats what i wish he had done
[19:17] <holstein> instead of just saying 'this doesnt work'
[19:17] <holstein> i mean, thats what linux desktop was like when he got on the scene
[19:17] <holstein> and he has arguably been one of the bigger players in helping change that public view
[19:18] <holstein> and, for a high profile member like him
[19:18] <holstein> i am thinking strongly, if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem
[19:18] <holstein> by saying linux audio is not up to par
[19:18] <holstein> that directly effects ubuntustudio
[19:18] <Kokito> did my friend Jono get in trouble again? :P
[19:18] <holstein> and the public view of it
[19:18] <holstein> Kokito: not yet :)
[19:19] <Kokito> oh, so the best is yet to come, eh? :)
[19:19] <holstein> Kokito: we'll see
[19:19] <holstein> i have an email-plea out to him
[19:19] <holstein> Kokito: i have decided we need his help
[19:20] <Kokito> in what way?
[19:20] <holstein> building community
[19:20] <holstein> really just what he's good at
[19:20] <holstein> just carry that over to ubuntustudio
[19:20] <holstein> and not help spread the FUD about linux audio not being capable
[19:21] <Kokito> ic
[19:22] <holstein> Kokito: if you guys are friends, ask him if he got my email :)
[19:22] <holstein> i tried to catch him in a /query first
[19:22] <holstein> but he was busy
[19:22] <holstein> and then.. UDS
[19:22] <holstein> i know he's a busy guy
[19:22] <holstein> but, we need him
[19:22] <Kokito> met him a couple of times, but not really friends
[19:22] <ScottL> hi Kokito , do you want to do a ubuntu studio newletter?
[19:23] <holstein> ScottL: i think we handled this XFCE thing wrong
[19:23] <holstein> now that i think about it
[19:23] <Kokito> ScottL:  could help with the editing, but I do not know about US nor its use cases enough to write anything useful
[19:23] <ScottL> holstein, you mean my emails to kenneth :P
[19:23] <holstein> we should have made the fact more clear that gnome2 is EOL
[19:23] <holstein> i think kenneth and others think we are just changing
[19:23] <ScottL> Kokito, there really isn't a newsletter at this point
[19:23] <holstein> for the hell of it
[19:24] <ScottL> but holstein that's why i pointed out my blog for the reasons
[19:24] <holstein> ScottL: OH, i hear you
[19:24] <holstein> its like theres a carbon-monoxide leak in the ML
[19:25] <Kokito> ScottL: if you want to start one, you will need people to write the content; I can't be one of them.
[19:25] <holstein> maybe a blogspot blog
[19:25] <holstein> and we can post to it
[19:25] <Kokito> ScottL: I think we should try to use the website as a vehicle for newsletter-like content
[19:25] <holstein> Kokito: yeah
[19:26] <holstein> you're right
[19:26] <holstein> the site should just have that functionality
[19:26] <ScottL> Kokito, no, i agree with that...i'm just kinda messing around anyway, i was hoping you would say "yeah, that's what i've always wanted to do and i already started one"
[19:26] <Kokito> heh
[19:26] <ScottL> i would seriously like other contributors to ubuntu studio to be able to post at the new website in certain areas for updates and thoughts
[19:27] <ScottL> ailo_'s testing of the kernels would have been a good deal
[19:27] <ScottL> get that infomration out there
[19:27] <ScottL> like gnome2 EOL
[19:27] <holstein> yeah
[19:27] <holstein> i mean
[19:27] <holstein> i feel like it was clear
[19:27] <holstein> but, maybe not clear enough
[19:27] <holstein> we should have had it really clear like that
[19:27] <Kokito> ScottL: to open up the website for broader collaboration is technically feasible (and desirable IMHO)
[19:28] <holstein> gnome2 is going away
[19:28] <ScottL> but i will say that cory could have started the post clearer with some simple facts, but he asked me to proof read it as well and i failed to note that
[19:28] <holstein> period
[19:28] <holstein> SO, we are... 
[19:28] <holstein> ScottL: i think, in light of the information
[19:28] <holstein> its clear
[19:28] <holstein> i just assume that folks are in the know
[19:28] <holstein> and they are not
[19:28] <holstein> if you're not in the IRC
[19:28] <ScottL> well i thought my blog post clearly outlined the logic behind the move, but perhaps i'm too close, did it make sense to you guys?
[19:28] <holstein> i feel like some of the news slips by
[19:29] <holstein> ScottL: i thought it was crystal
[19:29] <holstein> your post
[19:29] <holstein> but, whatever
[19:29] <Kokito> I have a question: since US is moving to XFCE, does that mean that it will be based on XUBUNTU?
[19:29] <holstein> again, we are not going to please everyone
[19:29] <holstein> however
[19:29] <holstein> the comments are like 'keep gnome you idiots'
[19:29] <ScottL> Kokito, no, we will just replace the gnome-panel packages with xfce ones
[19:29] <holstein> and the one time i have aske for clarification
[19:29] <Kokito> ScottL: I see, thanks
[19:29] <holstein> from ralph
[19:30] <holstein> he didnt know gnome2 was EOL
[19:30] <holstein> or, what gnome3 was
[19:31] <Kokito> ScottL: do we have access to the existing website stats?
[19:31] <ScottL> holstein, this has been a consistent problem with communication around ubuntu studio
[19:31] <ScottL> Kokito, not that i am aware, others might know like ckontros or jussi or themuse or persia
[19:32] <holstein> yeah, its challenging to plan for all the opinions
[19:32] <ScottL> holstein, to quesh ignorance or misunderstanding i have had to consistently repeat statements
[19:32] <holstein> and i think, i expect a certain amount of education to occur
[19:32] <holstein> self-education
[19:32] <ScottL> but perhaps it's a systemic problem holstein 
[19:32] <Kokito> ScottL: are these people that you mention (ckontros, jussi, themuse, etc.) MIA?
[19:32] <holstein> and thats not right i suppose
[19:32] <holstein> i mean, the one guy said 'whats XFCE'
[19:32] <holstein> i valid question
[19:32] <holstein> but, i would expect someone to just google it
[19:32] <holstein> and read
[19:32] <ScottL> holstein, Kokito , if we had the new website up and going and we consistently post news to it then we could THEN expect our users to dervie information ffrom there 
[19:33] <ScottL> Kokito, ckontros is cory kontrols who has been around more and more lately, but the others are involved, but peripherally generally
[19:33] <holstein> i think part of this early adoption is that we *could* jump back to unity
[19:33] <ScottL> in some cases they get directly involved, but those are special occassions
[19:33] <holstein> in theory
[19:33] <holstein> before 12.04
[19:34] <holstein> well, not back to unity, but you know...
[19:34] <ScottL> holstein, i'm using unity right now and i don't like it, but i force myself to keep using it to become familiar with it (not because i think i've been bad and need to be punished)
[19:34] <jussi> can someone briefly tell e what you want to know so I dont have to read scroll back right now? 
[19:34] <ScottL> jussi, Kokito was asking about stats for the existing website (ubuntustudion.org)
[19:35] <ScottL> jussi, Kokito is helping update to a new website and is doing wonderful things :)
[19:35] <jussi> I think I have made it fairly clear that I am not really active, Im not MIA, but backing off to do other stuff
[19:35] <Kokito> hi jussi 
[19:35] <jussi> I know not much about the status of the website.
[19:40] <ScottL> holstein, but if we make the website with a news section and we keep posting continual information then i would expect the users to keep up with it and be more knowledgeable
[19:40] <holstein> right
[19:40] <holstein> BUT, i dont think we can expect anything
[19:41] <holstein> i mean, im the same way
[19:41] <holstein> or was at least*
[19:41] <holstein> i think folks assume theres a big team somewhere
[19:41] <ScottL> yeah, they think that ubuntu studio is an operating unto itself and a well paid and highly mobilized team is working it
[19:42] <ScottL> interesting, and not unreleatedly, i found out that the xubuntu team is not quite as robust as i imagined as well, apparently most of the packages come from debian
[19:42] <ScottL> other than just the settings, plymouth theme, etc
[19:43] <ScottL> which is very similar to us ;)
[19:43] <holstein> yeah
[19:43] <holstein> i think it could be mutually benificial
[19:44] <Kokito> ScottL: the fact that US is a volunteer based initiative can be articulated in the new website in a more prominent way
[19:44] <holstein> OR, i get loud
[19:44] <holstein> and get us some funds for a dev
[19:44] <holstein> or dev team :)
[19:45] <holstein> i dont want to lose the control we have though
[19:45] <holstein> ScottL: i wouldnt want it to be taken over
[19:45] <holstein> it would be nice to have someone chewing on backports
[19:45] <holstein> and kernel maintaining
[19:45] <holstein> fixing packages
[19:46] <holstein> or some heavy lifting rewriting packages for US
[19:46] <holstein> it would be great if something died
[19:46] <holstein> and we could fork it
[19:46] <holstein> and have an ubuntustudio maintained pacakge
[19:48] <ScottL> hi troy_s 
[19:48] <ScottL> i'm going to start blogging more and being a little more ruthless about what i post i fear
[19:48] <holstein> ScottL: good :)
[19:49] <ScottL> holstein, what would you have die?
[19:49] <holstein> ScottL: well, i didnt mean that the way it sounds
[19:49] <holstein> i just meant
[19:50] <holstein> *if* something died off
[19:50] <holstein> like a plugin
[19:50] <holstein> or soemthing handy 
[19:50] <holstein> if we had the resources to maintain it 
[19:50] <holstein> in house
[19:50] <holstein> it would be good for us to be contributing like that
[19:50] <holstein> AND, folks would notice i think
[19:51] <ScottL> oh, i got you, not to be replaced but to be fixed, i'm with you again
[19:51] <ScottL> reaching out to other distributions to help would be good
[19:51] <troy_s> ScottL: Greetings.
[20:27] <ScottL> argh, mark shuttleworth keeps hacking into my computer and making it lock up
[20:28] <holstein> hehe
[20:28] <holstein> hes like that
[20:38] <holstein> ScottL: im serious
[20:38] <holstein> a carbon-monoxide leak
[20:38] <holstein> another 'why change? gnome is great' message
[20:38] <holstein> to that same thread
[20:39] <ScottL> yeah, i saw that and responded
[20:39] <ScottL> i almost said "did you read anything above?"
[20:39] <holstein> yeah, me too
[20:39] <holstein> ;p
[20:40] <holstein> im starting to feel like i might need to unsubscribe
[20:49] <ScottL> heh, yeah it's kinda draining and makes me want to choke something
[20:50] <astraljava> Haven't read mail in a couple of hours, still debating about the switch to XFCE?
[20:57] <holstein> astraljava: well, we arent debating really
[20:57] <holstein> we are moving
[20:57] <holstein> we're just getting some rather off the wall statememts
[20:57] <astraljava> holstein: Yea sorry, wrong term. Complaining? :)
[20:57] <holstein> like "why are you switching DE's"
[20:58] <holstein> astraljava: complaining to uninformed FUD creation
[20:58] <astraljava> Yuppers, reading the mail now. *rolls eyes*
[21:45] <holstein> astraljava: i just visited the fluxbuntu site
[21:45] <holstein> :/
[21:45] <holstein> i see thats still held up in whatever
[21:45] <holstein> too bad
[21:45] <holstein> i had to let some things go
[21:45] <holstein> i feel like i can grind an axe for ubuntustudio
[21:45] <holstein> and thats about it
[21:55] <astraljava> holstein: Yeah we dropped the ball, once again.
[21:55] <astraljava> There's some interesting talk going on, though.
[21:56] <astraljava> Wonder if we could pull that through, might really breath some life into the project.
[21:56] <astraljava> breathe*
[23:40] <raboof> gnome-panel will be retired along with the rest of gnome2? even though I don't really run gnome, i thought that was one of the nicest panels around :(
[23:42] <raboof> awn is pretty nice, but has some elements that make it not play nice with my windowmanager of choice (notion)
[23:55] <ailo_> As long as I can choose what desktop system I can use, I don't care
[23:57] <ailo_> Ubuntu Studio could be added in part to any Ubuntu derived distro
[23:59] <astraljava> ailo_: That's, quite amusingly, the exact reasoning as to why I sometimes wonder why we're actually providing an install .iso in the first place. :)