[02:09] <LLStarks> is it bad that unity lends itself to people forgetting about opened firefox popups?
[03:14] <Daekdroom> LLStarks, something you forget about is something that doesn't bother you.
[03:14] <Daekdroom> Personally, I hate closing the popups after they pile up, but it's good to not see them.
[03:20] <LLStarks> daekdroom, you forget about it because there's no panel to remind you
[03:20] <Daekdroom> Indeed. That doesn't happen when the launcher is set to never hide.
[03:27] <LLStarks> daekdroom, it's not a matter of visibility. it takes effort and more clicks than sanity to close multiple popups
[03:50] <FloatingGoat> im trying to make a launcher in unity that first of all is a shortcut to the ubuntu one folder, and second acts allows you to drag files and folders over it to be added to the folder
[03:50] <FloatingGoat> but I have no idea what im doing
[03:51] <FloatingGoat> I have made a launcher that goes directly to ubuntu one, but now it acts as the central file manager icon, no matter what.
[04:08] <FloatingGoat> brbrbrb
[04:32] <FloatingGoat> Im making a launcher right now, can I tell it to launch a second instance of a certain app if a first instance is already running?
[06:23] <FloatingGoat> success!
[09:40] <MaximLevitsky> Why I can't minumize windows by clicking on them in the dash?
[09:51] <zniavre> launcher is to launch apps not minimize them... launcher is not a dock (even if i will prefer this behavior)
[09:52] <MaximLevitsky> and where is the doc?
[09:52] <MaximLevitsky> dock?
[09:53] <zniavre> there is no dock to do this actions there is buttons
[09:54] <MaximLevitsky> OK, thanks, probably will bring some more users to KDE/whatsoever
[09:54] <zniavre> just new behavior to take
[09:55] <zniavre> (i m not using unity cause hardware failure)
[09:55] <zniavre> you can choose gnome-classic at gdm
[09:56] <MaximLevitsky> zniavre: yea? and in next version?
[09:57] <MaximLevitsky> I rather choose KDE that guarantees that it wont disapper in next version
[09:57] <MaximLevitsky> or I rather choose windows
[09:57] <MaximLevitsky> even they don't dare to fuck-up the UI that far
[17:15] <coz_>  hey all
[18:02] <Andy80> hi
[22:05] <ali1234> it strikes me that with all the 3d accelerated user interfaces and now stuff like opencl, we are going to end up needing priority process management for GPUs...
[22:17] <hiatus> well, I tried to like unity, but seriously....
[22:17] <ali1234> how long did you try for?
[22:17] <hiatus> couple days now
[22:18] <ali1234> stick with it for 2 weeks and then go back to classic
[22:18] <ali1234> you'll probably be suprised
[22:18] <ali1234> i was
[22:18] <hiatus> no, there are some things that either do not work properly or are just plain bad design
[22:18] <ali1234> there's bugs yeah
[22:20] <hiatus> for example, if I wanted to add vlc player and stick it to my taskbar, it shows no icon. That seems like a pretty minor fix. Also, whenever I get to the things like "file, edit, etc" they just kinda blur out the name of the application and start the "file, edit" bit where ever. it looks disorderly!
[22:20] <hiatus> and why have two file managers tabbed by default?
[22:20] <hiatus> also, there is no distinction between applications I have open and applications I have pinned
[22:21] <UndiFineD> ali1234, do you know of a bug with dbus ? sometimes I have to enable and disable dbus on compiz to get unity redrawn
[22:22] <hiatus> and there is no simple way to see all of your applications in an orderly fashion! its pretty, but that doesn't mean much if I cant find what I am looking for.
[22:22] <ali1234> hiatus: i disabled global menu, it's just annoying on desktop
[22:22] <hiatus> and sure, you can click the ubuntu icon and search for it, but I dont want to search for every application I want to launch!
[22:22] <ali1234> put it on the launcher then
[22:23] <ali1234> UndiFineD: no idea, sorry
[22:23] <hiatus> I'm more concerned with the fact that this is the default interface. I can see potential and reasons to move away from gnome. but who the heck said "You know what this is missing? two file managers on the panel"
[22:23] <ali1234> it's not perfect
[22:23] <hiatus> well, gnome shell
[22:24] <ali1234> i complained at least as much as anyone else
[22:24] <ali1234> but now i think it's slightly better than classic
[22:24] <hiatus> why didn't they listen!
[22:24] <ali1234> i dunno, that's a whole other problem
[22:25] <hiatus> this isn't brain surgery! there are two file managers! Jesus, I had to rip dibona's head off about android not having a single file manager, and now I have two!
[22:25] <hiatus> sorry, I needed to vent
[22:25] <hiatus> little stuff like that bothers me a lot
[22:25] <ali1234> you mean files and folders?
[22:26] <ali1234> it's not really a file manager
[22:26] <UndiFineD> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/783201
[22:26] <hiatus> well, two icons which essentially take you to the same place
[22:27] <hiatus> yeah, you have files and folders which take you immediately to various folders. and then you have an icon which just takes you to your home folder
[22:27] <hiatus> if I have one, I dont need the other
[22:27] <ali1234> remove one of them then
[22:28] <hiatus> well, like I said. I'll probably customize it to my liking, my upset is that it was the default layout
[22:28] <ali1234> you actually do need them both
[22:28] <hiatus> why?
[22:28] <ali1234> you can't switch between nautilus windows with files+folders
[22:28] <ali1234> and you can't search from the nautilus one
[22:29] <hiatus> you can search from the ubuntu icon, cant you?
[22:29] <ali1234> apparently you can
[22:30] <hiatus> and if you right click files and folders you can just go to your home folder
[22:30] <ali1234> but you can't do window management
[22:30] <hiatus> so, what. having my home folder tabbed saved me from right clicking on files and folders and going to home folder?
[22:30] <ali1234> and even if you remove the home icon it will come back as soon as you open a nautilus
[22:30] <hiatus> yeah, but its not tabbed
[22:31] <ali1234> actually you can't open nautilus from files & folders directly
[22:31] <ali1234> it just opens the search
[22:31] <ali1234> with a custom location
[22:31] <hiatus> right click files and folders and you click on home and it takes you to nautilus in home
[22:32] <ali1234> not here it doesn't
[22:32] <ali1234> home isn't even one of the options
[22:32] <hiatus> erm, my bad. I mean left click on files and folders
[22:33] <ali1234> that does the same thing
[22:33] <ali1234> but without a custom location
[22:33] <hiatus> ah, and there is every folder but home >.<
[22:33] <hiatus> seriously!
[22:33] <ali1234> there's that favourite folders list at the bottom
[22:33] <ali1234> that's it
[22:33] <hiatus> ah, I usually dont add extra folders, thats why it looks the same
[22:35] <hiatus> It seems redundent to have two applications that both launch nautilus in different ways though, so my ranting still stands
[22:36] <hiatus> and what is with the fade out of the application name and then randomly starting the file,edit thing? it looks awful
[22:37] <ali1234> files and folders doesn't launch nautilus though, unless you click a directory
[22:37] <ali1234> it's for searching, i don't see why it's a problem
[22:37] <ali1234> also, turn off global menu
[22:39] <hiatus> well, for one, searching for everything is absurd. Why in gods name would I want my computer to search threw tree's to get to my folder rather then just click on home. It is just asking for the messiest folders in existence and a needless waste of performance.
[22:40] <hiatus> I mean, it means I cant just find the applications my computer has, I kinda have to guess at their names
[22:41] <hiatus> I mean, I can go to applications, and click on installed, but that just gives me a list of uncategorized icons like a damn iphone
[22:42] <hiatus> which is exactly what everyone hated about gnome 3
[22:42] <ali1234> yeah it sucks for people who have a clue
[22:42] <ali1234> unfortunately those people are rather thin on the ground
[22:43] <hiatus> thin on the ground?
[22:43] <ali1234> rare
[22:43] <ali1234> uncommon
[22:44] <hiatus> I dont think wanting your applications organized is rare or uncommon
[22:45] <ali1234> then you have a distorted view of what people actually want
[22:45] <hiatus> Oh no, no no no
[22:46] <hiatus> Look at your symbian phones and old brew phones and such. The things old people like was that everything is neat and orderly. They knew all there phone features are in a little text menu called "phone"
[22:47] <ali1234> people like symbian cos it's reliable
[22:47] <ali1234> they don't install a million apps on it -> don't need a fancy menu
[22:47] <ali1234> this is also the reason nokia wants to kill it
[22:47] <ali1234> symbian people just don't care about apps
[22:48] <ali1234> so they can't have their ecosystem
[22:48] <hiatus> people just think that apple can do no wrong and that everyone likes apples interface. so everyone likes walls of apps. People dont care about walls of apps. they care about the app market and marketing ploys and advertisements
[22:48] <ali1234> symbian has a big wall of apps now btw
[22:48] <hiatus> I have never met anyone who said "I like an iphone because I have to cycle threw pages of apps to find what I want!"
[22:48] <ali1234> you don't have to do that
[22:48] <ali1234> you don't have to install hundreds of apps
[22:49] <hiatus> what I mean is, ubuntu currently by default has 80 "apps" installed by default
[22:49] <hiatus> you already have pages
[22:49] <ali1234> most of those apps will never be used
[22:50] <ali1234> so there is no need for a menu
[22:50] <hiatus> each new app in unity. I either have to search for. which wastes time. or search threw pages
[22:50] <ali1234> searching is fast here
[22:50] <hiatus> it is significantly slower then just clicking in a menu bar
[22:51] <ali1234> not really
[22:51] <hiatus> the menu bar is instant, the search, I see wait time on my phenom 2 555, and then thats providing I actually typed it right
[22:51] <ali1234> it's faster for apps i rarely use
[22:51] <ali1234> i don't need to remember where they are
[22:52] <ali1234> i've already forgotten where the screenshot app is
[22:52] <hiatus> is it all that hard to remember where they are when they are categorized?
[22:52] <ali1234> is it all that hard to remember what they are called when it isn't?
[22:52] <hiatus> yes!
[22:52] <ali1234> anywayi am getting old i can't remember stuff any more
[22:52] <hiatus> for example, Is it libre office or open office?
[22:53] <ali1234> it's "spreadsheet"
[22:53] <ali1234> or "word"
[22:53] <ali1234> ok word doesn't work, but spreadsheet does
[22:53] <hiatus> it is NOW, it didn't used to be a version ago
[22:53] <hiatus> lmao
[22:53] <hiatus> see!
[22:53] <ali1234> it's always been spreadsheet since natty came out
[22:54] <hiatus> coming from someone who used to use redhat back in '98....
[22:54] <ali1234> the other one is writer
[22:54] <ali1234> i never use that though
[22:54] <ali1234> i use nano for text editing
[22:54] <hiatus> see, I'm guessing at name
[22:54] <hiatus> names*
[22:54] <ali1234> you dont need to know the name
[22:55] <ali1234> you can guess at what it does
[22:55] <hiatus> you did and failed
[22:55] <hiatus> you typed in word and didn't get what you wanted
[22:55] <ali1234> yes
[22:55] <ali1234> maybe that should be a bug
[22:55] <ali1234> "word processor" should find it
[22:55] <ali1234> and word is a substring of that
[22:55] <hiatus> word processor doesn't work either
[22:56] <ali1234> yes i know
[22:56] <ali1234> so it is a bug
[22:56] <hiatus> but, your trying to optimize subjective things. Everyone has different ways of remembering different things. What I call one thing, other people call something else
[22:56] <hiatus> I mean, >.> Gnu/Linux....
[22:56] <ali1234> note that "settings" brings up a bunch of stuff that doesn't have "settings" in the name
[22:56] <ali1234> because it's smarter than just a search on the program name
[22:57] <hiatus> greeeeaaaaaattttt..., So I have no reliable logic to base my search on. I have to guess what the developer decided to use as logic
[22:57] <ali1234> no
[22:57] <ali1234> you have to just type what you want to do
[22:57] <hiatus> except word
[22:58] <hiatus> and you have to spell it correctly
[22:58] <ali1234> apart from anything else all the office stuff is pinned
[22:58] <hiatus> and then ubuntu has to search your hard drive for it...
[22:58] <ali1234> by default
[22:59] <ali1234> anyway i said it's not perfect
[22:59] <ali1234> i still think its better than a big clunky start menu
[22:59] <hiatus> So, let me get this straight. Rather then have a few categories where everything automatically organizes itself. You would rather have a search bar which has to scan libraries, that you have to check your spelling in, and guess what the developer decided what you were searching for
[23:00] <hiatus> thats like saying that Google is better then your bookmarks, so you should just use google for everything
[23:00] <nhaines> hiatus: in my professional experience, that's precisely how people use web browsers.
[23:01] <hiatus> no, no its not. If it was, then facebook would not have received a higher hit rating then google
[23:01] <nhaines> hiatus: yes, it is.
[23:02] <ali1234> yes i know people who type the url in google :)
[23:02] <ali1234> and then click on it
[23:02] <hiatus> because everyone would first start searching for facebook, and facebook google would receive a higher hit rating
[23:02] <nhaines> hiatus: I'd love to believe it isn't true as much (or more) than you do.  ;)
[23:02] <ali1234> also look at the awesome bar
[23:02] <hiatus> I know people do that
[23:02] <ali1234> i hated the idea of it
[23:02] <ali1234> but now i use it all the time
[23:02] <ali1234> because i only have to remember 1 unique part of the url instead the whole thing
[23:02] <hiatus> but people use bookmarks too and people type url's in as well. Currently, the Unity interface forces you to use Google for everything essentially
[23:03] <ali1234> i still hate it cos it makes firefox slow
[23:03] <ali1234> but i can't live without it
[23:03] <hiatus> have you stopped using bookmarks?
[23:03] <ali1234> i never used them
[23:03] <nhaines> hiatus: the Unity interface makes you scroll or search for apps you haven't pinned.
[23:04] <ali1234> bookmarks are too much trouble trying to keep them organized, i can't be bothered
[23:04] <ali1234> same goes for music library
[23:04] <ali1234> i;m tiredof organizing directories by artist/album and fixing filenames
[23:04] <ali1234> it sucks
[23:04] <ali1234> make computer do it for meeeeee
[23:05] <hiatus> the unity interface makes me either pin an app which is impossible to tell pinned apps from launched apps making my life more complicated because an app I pin is one that I use often. so it could be either one. Or use the search bar, which has my favorite apps listed which are probably the ones I pinned!
[23:05] <ali1234> i don't like the app switching mechanic at all
[23:05] <nhaines> hiatus: impossible except for the arrow indicating whether an app is launched.
[23:05] <ali1234> but i don't like any dock
[23:05] <ali1234> you can middle click and you always get a new window btw
[23:05] <hiatus> you know, this is exactly the same mentality that google had about file systems. They said "oh! users don't want file systems!" and then manufactuerers started installing file systems by default because of user demand.
[23:06] <nhaines> Installing file systems?
[23:06] <ali1234> i want filesystems
[23:06] <hiatus> and they were intending to do the same thing for the cr48, until they recieved so many complaints that they included a file system
[23:06] <ali1234> i just don't want them to be the only way
[23:06] <nhaines> hiatus: do you mean file managers?
[23:06] <ali1234> does chromeos even let you write files to disk?
[23:06] <hiatus> erm, yes
[23:06] <ali1234> i thought it was all cloudy
[23:06] <hiatus> file manager*
[23:06] <hiatus> no, chrome os has local storage
[23:07] <nhaines> hiatus: ah.  No, users *don't* want file managers.  They want their data to magically appear whenever they're thinking about it.
[23:07] <hiatus> it has a local media player as well
[23:07] <nhaines> In the mean time, we'd better just keep the file managers around.  ;)
[23:07] <hiatus> no, your an ass. People do not want computers to be magic machines that do everything for them because developers can not deliver that experience
[23:08] <ali1234> most people in fact do want this because they already think computers are magic
[23:08] <hiatus> developers can only deliver what they think the users want. which isn't always what the user wants, and then frustrates the hell out of the users who do not think like the developers
[23:08] <ali1234> that's why all existing UIs suck
[23:08] <ali1234> especially KDE
[23:08] <nhaines> hiatus: My job used to be assisting users with hard drives and backup software.  That's *precisely* what they want, and they're angry when it doesn't work that way.
[23:09] <hiatus> oh please, that is my job currently and you know what I do the most repairing peoples computers for people?
[23:09] <hiatus> Install Classic Theme
[23:09] <nhaines> hiatus: and it hasn't changed in the 15 years I've been doing support.  Nobody wants to know where their files are, they just want to be able to open them when they want it.
[23:09] <hiatus> thats bullshit
[23:09] <ali1234> if you even understand what a file path is you are in the minority of computer users
[23:09] <nhaines> hiatus: it's the truth.
[23:10] <hiatus> no its not, I repair computers all the time and thats the exact mentality that is the opposite. Look at the search bar in windows 7 and vista. NO ONE USES IT!
[23:10] <nhaines> hiatus: and while I would always try to impart just enough knowledge to help them keep their My Documents folder (or equivilant) organized, that's barely more than they want.
[23:10] <hiatus> It searches for your files and applications and everyone searches for "all programs" anyway
[23:10] <nhaines> hiatus: I said nothing of the sort.
[23:10] <ali1234> i've never used vista or 7
[23:10] <nhaines> hiatus: what people do is they just use the "Open File" dialog box as their file manager.
[23:11] <ali1234> i heard there was major butthurt because they disabled classic startmenu in 7
[23:11] <hiatus> only neckbeards do that
[23:11] <nhaines> hiatus: no, the average user does that, and doesn't understand that a Word document could be dealt with abstractly in a generic file manager.
[23:11] <ali1234> most people save in whatever the default location is in the program they use and don't understand it's a directory accessible from the filemanager
[23:12] <ali1234> consequently they don't even know how to say, save a screenshot and then open it in image editor
[23:12] <ali1234> because they think every program has it's own set of files only visible to that program
[23:12] <hiatus> nice way of making it sound complicated. People who use windows open up windows by going to all programs. They then make a file and usually save it to the desktop
[23:12] <nhaines> And I really wish it were different, but it's not.
[23:12] <hiatus> even if they do not understand file systems, they understand desktop and thats fine
[23:12] <ali1234> when what they are actually doing is saving in the program's installation folder (on windows)
[23:12] <nhaines> hiatus: no, most people save it to My Documents.  A lot of people don't even understand how to save something to their desktop.
[23:13] <nhaines> The only way it gets there is if they downloaded it, and then they don't know how to move it.
[23:13] <ali1234> if the program default to my documents :)
[23:13] <nhaines> ali1234: most are, thank godness.  :)
[23:13] <ali1234> they are these days
[23:13] <nhaines> s/godness/goodness/
[23:13] <hiatus> Want me to prove this to you? I will make a video while I am at work and ask various people how they access programs in windows
[23:13] <ali1234> because recent windows has better default permissions
[23:14] <nhaines> hiatus: you can't prove it to me.
[23:14] <ali1234> anecdote proves nothing
[23:14] <ali1234> we can go in circles
[23:14] <hiatus> It will be simple, I can make hundreds. I will ask person after person after person of there computer habits. Record it and put it on youtube
[23:14] <ali1234> do it
[23:14] <ali1234> it would be useful library of information for developers
[23:15] <ali1234> can never have enough usability studies
[23:15] <hiatus> I will, I am so annoyed by how everyone thinks that users want all this shit and whenever I fix a computer I have to re explain all new interfaces over and over and over and over again and hear people say "I miss xp"
[23:16] <hiatus> hell, I even had a guy just yesterday say "If my games supports windows me, I would still be using it"
[23:16] <ali1234> the thing is
[23:16] <ali1234> if you forced those people to use the new thing for 2 weeks most of them would love it
[23:16] <ali1234> but they don't want to learn something new
[23:16] <ali1234> and i can't blame them
[23:16] <ali1234> it takes effort
[23:16] <nhaines> hiatus: that's because people like to learn just enough to get things operational, and then they just want to get stuff done.  Computers are a tool.
[23:16] <ali1234> right
[23:17] <ali1234> people don't want to learn a new way even if it is much better
[23:17] <hiatus> I find they don't. Most run windows 7 and windows vista and they do not use searchbar or know where anything is. Hell, I still don't know how to find things in windows 7
[23:17] <ali1234> so you have to give them an interface where the most obvious way is also the correct way
[23:17] <nhaines> And I'm all in favor of that.  Heck, that's why I use Ubuntu.  Most thing just work and I only have to start tweaking things when I feel like it.
[23:17] <hiatus> unity isn't obvious at all
[23:17] <ali1234> perhaps
[23:18] <ali1234> but neither is xp
[23:18] <hiatus> if it was obvious. I wouldn't be here!
[23:18] <ali1234> or classic gnome
[23:18] <hiatus> xp, Gnome 2, and osx are consistent and thats what people liked about them
[23:18] <nhaines> hiatus: are you arguing that people not learning the new search or organizational features in Vista and 7 is proof that people don't try to learn the least amount to get functional on a computer?
[23:19] <ali1234> os x is not consistent at all
[23:19] <ali1234> it's all about searching
[23:19] <nhaines> I'm not a fan of Windows, but Windows 7's interface is rather nice.
[23:19] <ali1234> can't stand os x myself, mainly because of global menu though
[23:19] <hiatus> eh, they always had the same sort of interface throughout the years, but yeah. I'm getting out of my experience with OSX. I have only fiddled with it
[23:21] <hiatus> I'm a member of gnu, so I try to keep away from osx
[23:21] <ali1234> but windows is fine?
[23:22] <hiatus> sorta, yes. Even stallman says that if you are forced to use proprietary software for work. Then use it, but if someone asks for a pirated copy. It is morally right (maybe not legally, but morally) to pirate it
[23:22] <hiatus> of course, hes against the word pirate. and I need windows for work
[23:22] <ali1234> stallman said that?
[23:22] <hiatus> no one needs osx
[23:22] <ali1234> i disagree
[23:22] <hiatus> he did
[23:22] <ali1234> pirating just gives them more users
[23:22] <ali1234> anyway that's super offtopic
[23:23] <hiatus> he said it was ok, because its about sharing with your neighbor
[23:23] <hiatus> lol it is
[23:23] <ali1234> but it's like sharing the flu with your neighbour
[23:23] <hiatus> would you like another persons opinion on why he hates unity? my firend on messenger is complaining about it as well, and I don't know if you want the feedback
[23:24] <ali1234>  bet it's all been said before
[23:24] <ali1234> there needs to be a website for collating rants or something
[23:25] <hiatus> sportsinaminutewhiteguywhy.jpg why make it big icon appfag freindly? 06:21:09 PM it's messy 06:21:14 PM and dumblooking 06:21:25 PM "but game consoles do that!" 06:21:34 PM um, game consoles are computers whose sole functionality and design is simply to exectue applications on ROM images for the purpose of entertainment 06:22:19 PM you don't compute on them or work amongst different production applications while tabulating on them 06:
[23:26] <hiatus> i figure I would just summarize. hes not real computer savvy
[23:26] <ali1234> well ok
[23:26] <hiatus> lol
[23:26] <hiatus> that was his rant
[23:27] <ali1234> i'm not crazy about the launcher or the lenses
[23:27] <ali1234> but i don't really find it worse than traditional stuff
[23:27] <hiatus> ok, see. another problem. I have his messenger minimalized. and I am in chrome maximized. I look for the tab of where I can access his messenger box... I cant find it
[23:28] <ali1234> install pidgin
[23:28] <ali1234> all chats in 1 windows
[23:28] <ali1234> empathy sucks
[23:28] <hiatus> eh, I'm not a fan of pidgin dev's
[23:28] <hiatus> they have become super careless
[23:30] <hiatus> I would use google talk completely. That shows some real potential
[23:31] <hiatus> video, voice, text, and file transfers that works on windows, osx, and linux with aim and skype integration. Get yahoo on board and we have a fully functional messenger
[23:31] <nhaines> hiatus: try the messaging window.
[23:32] <nhaines> That brings up his messenger window or tab.
[23:32] <hiatus> ah
[23:33] <hiatus> I kept searching around in the top panel
[23:33] <hiatus> i have been minimalizing the browser all this time >.<
[23:34] <nhaines> hiatus: it's been there since 10.04 LTS.  (And application indicators have been one of things that have made Ubuntu massively more convenient for me as opposed to other OSes.
[23:36] <hiatus> the application indicator didn't say anything
[23:36] <hiatus> I clicked on the icon on the side taskbar
[23:37] <nhaines> hiatus: If I misread, and you're actually using Google's binary, then it might not support the messaging menu.  That would be sad.  :(
[23:37] <hiatus> no, no, I'm using empathy at the moment. I do like google talk though
[23:38] <hiatus> it seems we all like the new software center though
[23:38] <hiatus> comments and rating is cool
[23:40] <ali1234> i don't
[23:40] <hiatus> really? why is that?
[23:40] <ali1234> i like to see actual debs
[23:40] <ali1234> with dependencies and installed files
[23:40] <hiatus> well, you can still do that, cant you?
[23:41] <ali1234> however, i understand that most people do not
[23:41] <ali1234> yes, i can just use synaptic like always
[23:41] <hiatus> yeah, no, synaptic is good too, but as far as ease of use goes and overall look. Its decent. no complaints. comments are a nice feature
[23:42] <ali1234> i like that if, say, i want inkscape and it's not installed, the applications lense just offers it to me
[23:42] <ali1234> and that goes through software centre, but that's irrelevant
[23:43] <ali1234> but try for example installing libcurl4-openssl-dev through software centre
[23:43] <Omega> hiatus: A member of GNU using gmail?
[23:43] <nhaines> ali1234: you're not supposed to install that through Software Center.  :)
[23:44] <ali1234> well obviously
[23:44] <ali1234> but i install stuff like that much more often than single apps like inkscape
[23:44] <ali1234> i install all those right away after installing the OS
[23:44] <hiatus> I'm a practical member of gnu
[23:44] <nhaines> And I agree, the application lens's "Available for install" feature is fantastic.  I think it's the right solution to users not understanding the software that's availble to them.
[23:44] <hiatus> yeah, I got the newsletter
[23:44] <nhaines> ali1234: for all that stuff, I just use apt-get.  :)
[23:45] <ali1234> yes i use apt-get a lot as well
[23:45] <ali1234> but i never can remember all the advanced apt commands like "files installed by package" and stuff
[23:45] <ali1234> so i use synaptic, because it's right there onthe menu
[23:46] <hiatus> depending on what I am doing, I use aptitude
[23:46] <nhaines> ali1234: I almost never use synaptic anymore, but I remember it fondly.  :)
[23:46] <Omega> I just use apt, it's the fastest way of getting what I want.
[23:46] <Omega> apt-get instal moo
[23:47] <Omega> < ali1234> but try for example installing libcurl4-openssl-dev through software centre
[23:48] <Omega> I searched for libcurl and it came up.
[23:48] <hiatus> apt-get install girlfriend
[23:48] <hiatus> Unable to locate package girlfriend
[23:48] <hiatus> ^.^
[23:49] <hiatus> no, no, I actually do pretty well
[23:49] <nhaines> :)
[23:49] <nhaines> ali1234: actually, he's right.  You can search by package name and choose "Show x technical items"
[23:50] <ali1234> it's completely broken for me. UI isn;t even redrawing
[23:51] <ali1234> even quitting it didn't help
[23:52] <hiatus> lol, because my friend is insisting. He wants me to post his second rant
[23:52] <hiatus> they are fairly entertaining. Hopefully, I wont get banned
[23:53] <hiatus> that's why gabe comes right out in interviews and in games to freaking email him he knows to listen to the community 06:43:43 PM and they'll help you more than your corporate masters 06:43:55 PM in fact that's how he's making tons of cash! 06:44:03 PM RAGE HATS 06:44:10 PM wtf no, people like getting hats for a game they like so they can show they enjoy that game, while being in another game! 06:44:34 PM yeah walls of apps are for spa
[23:53] <hiatus> not tabulation machines 06:45:26 PM meaning computers and other calculatory devices 06:45:39 PM giving it to a UI that is specifically used by the nerd community was pretty stupid 06:46:19 PM expectially because such a UI was uses to interface with a fucking tabulation machien 06:46:42 PM wtf idiots 06:46:45 PM I need to do multiple things at the same time with a minimal interface 06:46:58 PM it's freaking communism, man! 06:47:10 PM 
[23:54] <hiatus> and unity is mother cuking communism 06:47:30 PM MASS REGULATION AND PARTIONING OF FUNCTIONALITY 06:47:44 PM appfag god damn communist applephoneuser dipshits 06:48:03 PM
[23:54] <ali1234> O.o
[23:54] <hiatus> lol
[23:55] <nhaines> I don't really find them very funny.
[23:55] <hiatus> hes talking about gabe newell and how in tf2 you can guy hats
[23:55] <hiatus> well, hes a ubuntu user too
[23:56] <nhaines> But the situation is simple.  There must be a default.  Canonical is trying to drive usability in a way that has traditionally been ignored in the Free Software ecosystem at large.
[23:56] <nhaines> So now we have Unity as default.
[23:56] <nhaines> But none of the other desktop environments have gone anywhere, and they as easily installable.
[23:56] <ali1234> you said ecosystem without irony
[23:57] <nhaines> It's a useful analogy.
[23:58] <hiatus> I'm not really against unity. I don't think he is either. Another thing he said before was that devs need feedback. whether negative or positive.
[23:58] <ali1234> thing is
[23:58] <nhaines> It needs to be constructive feedback, though.
[23:59] <ali1234> i don't think it necessarily needs to be constructive
[23:59] <nhaines> To be helpful it does.
[23:59] <ali1234> but random rants aren't going to do much
[23:59] <ali1234> "i don't like it" is perfectly valid