| ailo_ | astraljava, I suppose to offer a system perfectly tuned towards multimedia. And that has been the case with some of the release, but not all | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| astraljava | ailo_: Yeah, but all the tweaks could be written into packages (via postinsts etc.), such as removing NetworkManager and the like. | 00:02 |
| ailo_ | astraljava, That's true | 00:02 |
| astraljava | There's only one thing that comes to mind; if the intended machine will not be connected to Internet, so you can download most everything you will need in one file. | 00:03 |
| astraljava | In exactly how many cases will this materialize? | 00:03 |
| astraljava | No one knows. | 00:03 |
| ailo_ | It is becoming less and less common for people not to have Internet for sure. But, then there's the live image variant, which can be very useful too | 00:04 |
| ailo_ | I wonder how much resources the awn together with XFCE takes compared to Unity or Gnome3 | 00:06 |
| astraljava | I guess. I have a hard time figuring out a session where you've loaded the whole OS into RAM, and then start recording/processing/whatever. But it might happen, I could just be totally ignorant regarding such incidents. | 00:06 |
| ailo_ | Maybe there should be a multimedia panel, that replaces all other panels :) | 00:06 |
| astraljava | Not altogether a bad idea. :) | 00:07 |
| ailo_ | astraljava, You would never record on to RAM. You would use the existing hard drive or an external one | 00:07 |
| ailo_ | But, loading apps into RAM is what you do either way | 00:07 |
| ailo_ | And it works just as well, only loading the apps is slower | 00:07 |
| ailo_ | From CD especially, it's slower to load tha apps | 00:07 |
| astraljava | ailo_: Of course, but the data doesn't go directly to the disk without running through RAM first, or does it? | 00:08 |
| astraljava | ailo_: I guess you're right, it shouldn't be any different. | 00:08 |
| ailo_ | astraljava, I believe the OS runs pretty much identically, only that it reads programs from the live image when it loads, so it takes longer time | 00:08 |
| ailo_ | But running them is the same | 00:09 |
| astraljava | Yep, don't know what I was thinking. :) | 00:09 |
| ailo_ | puredyne has a persistant live image, which you can create users on, and even install programs. | 00:09 |
| ailo_ | Using usb stick that is | 00:09 |
| ailo_ | It's really handy | 00:09 |
| ailo_ | You can bring your own system to any other machine | 00:10 |
| astraljava | Yeah, never used but am aware. That's pretty nifty. | 00:10 |
| ailo_ | I used puredyne 911 as a live machine. Installed on hard drive. XFCE. The rt kernel from karmic. A very nice system | 00:12 |
| ailo_ | The live image comes in two sizes. CD and DVD | 00:12 |
| ailo_ | So, you have all the combinations you can think of | 00:13 |
| ailo_ | I would probably use the Puredyne live image creation as the base for an Ubuntu Studio live image | 00:16 |
| Kokito | howdy | 02:19 |
| * Kokito is listening to Santana while shredding old useless documents | 02:23 | |
| ScottL | astraljava, one of the benefits of providing an install ISO for ubuntu studio is what we choose to exclude :) | 02:36 |
| ScottL | oh, i see someone pointed this out | 02:37 |
| ScottL | holstein, i just read in LXF that even though gnome3 has a fallback option to gnome panel, it is configured to behave like gnome shell | 02:38 |
| ScottL | so, this means yes, we could try to default to gnome panel that is included with gnome 3 but it will still perform and look like gnome 3 without the 3d acceleration | 02:38 |
| holstein | ScottL: yeah | 04:11 |
| holstein | thats what im thinking | 04:11 |
| holstein | im looking for the option on the live CD i have | 04:11 |
| holstein | i'll have to get a new live CD though | 04:11 |
| === ubott2 is now known as ubottu | ||
| === kubotu_ is now known as kubotu | ||
| === kubotu_ is now known as kubotu | ||
| holstein | ScottL: chkontros? | 15:57 |
| holstein | ckontros? | 15:58 |
| astraljava | It's only 11 am, he can't possibly be up yet. *grin* | 15:59 |
| holstein | hehe | 15:59 |
| holstein | astraljava: is it chontos? | 15:59 |
| holstein | chontros | 16:00 |
| astraljava | ckontros, and he's not even on the channel. | 16:00 |
| astraljava | holstein: What do you use for IRC? | 16:00 |
| holstein | astraljava: yeah, thats why i cant remember his nick ;) | 16:00 |
| holstein | astraljava: i have irssi in screen | 16:00 |
| astraljava | Okay, so you should have nick completion in tab. | 16:01 |
| astraljava | Very useful to tell whether someone's on channel or not, as irssi doesn't show joined nicks by default. | 16:01 |
| holstein | astraljava: yeah | 16:03 |
| holstein | im not looking for him | 16:03 |
| holstein | i want to refer to him in an email | 16:03 |
| holstein | and couldnt remember the nick | 16:03 |
| astraljava | Ahh... sorry. :) | 16:03 |
| holstein | no worries | 16:04 |
| holstein | i wasnt clear about it ;) | 16:04 |
| astraljava | Yeah it's ckontros, c for Cory. | 16:04 |
| astraljava | holstein: Trimming is recommended. :) | 16:35 |
| holstein | trimming? | 16:36 |
| holstein | i thought maybe i had accidentally sent that long, bitchy email i composed | 16:36 |
| holstein | to the mailing list ;) | 16:36 |
| astraljava | No I mean when responding to others' posts, scrap the irrelevant portion. | 16:38 |
| astraljava | :) | 16:38 |
| holstein | astraljava: i thought i had | 16:39 |
| astraljava | When there's 257 lines in the post, it becomes tiresome checking it all for content. | 16:39 |
| holstein | or, i thought it was not shown | 16:39 |
| astraljava | gmail? | 16:40 |
| holstein | it just shows up and 'quoted text' for me | 16:40 |
| holstein | yeah | 16:40 |
| astraljava | Yeah. | 16:40 |
| holstein | that thread is ridiculous anyways | 16:40 |
| holstein | thats it for me | 16:40 |
| astraljava | It doesn't show it to you, but it will still be sent. | 16:40 |
| astraljava | Yeah I agree it got out of hand. | 16:40 |
| holstein | its just emotional | 16:41 |
| holstein | which is good in a way | 16:41 |
| holstein | even that last one | 16:41 |
| holstein | 'i dont know what XFCE is, but..' | 16:41 |
| holstein | its like, go Fn look | 16:41 |
| astraljava | That's partly true, but... | 16:41 |
| holstein | theres xubuntu and puredyne | 16:41 |
| astraljava | Yeah exactly. | 16:42 |
| holstein | and that other hard-on | 16:42 |
| holstein | that was like 5 or 6 back and forth threads | 16:42 |
| holstein | and then, "OH, i thought we were talking about LXDE' | 16:42 |
| astraljava | Haha! Yeah cracked me up. :D | 16:42 |
| holstein | its a passionate crowd though | 16:42 |
| holstein | and thats good | 16:42 |
| holstein | we just need to get them in here | 16:43 |
| holstein | and involved | 16:43 |
| astraljava | Yeah I guess. | 16:43 |
| holstein | involved in testing | 16:43 |
| holstein | and fixing, instead of bitching | 16:43 |
| holstein | *something i have been guilty of | 16:43 |
| holstein | thats partially why i wanted to get involved with fluxbuntu | 16:43 |
| holstein | stop bitching and fix it | 16:43 |
| holstein | so, now that i dont have time | 16:44 |
| holstein | i cant bitch about it anymore ;) | 16:44 |
| astraljava | Well of course you can. :) People are allowed to have opinions. :) | 16:45 |
| holstein | hehe | 16:45 |
| ScottL | oi, i'm here | 17:15 |
| ScottL | i find the "we're changing to xfce" thread to be wearing thin on my patience | 17:16 |
| astraljava | Maybe let it die already? :) | 17:19 |
| ScottL | yes, you are right astraljava | 17:20 |
| astraljava | But in hindsight, maybe Cory should have mentioned Gnome2 going away? Might have dismissed many who now nag about not using that. | 17:21 |
| astraljava | Or GNOME 2, whatever. | 17:21 |
| ScottL | yes, that would have helped quite a bit too ;) | 17:22 |
| ScottL | but it would be helpful if people would read the rest of the thread to see if there is other information | 17:22 |
| astraljava | Yeah, mailing list etiquette is lost on so many of us. | 17:23 |
| ScottL | or if they would provide something tangible to argue against using xfce | 17:23 |
| ScottL | i really welcome ANY information, pro or con | 17:24 |
| ScottL | it would give us _some_ basis | 17:24 |
| astraljava | Mostly people are just not comfortable for leaving something they have used for a long time. | 17:24 |
| astraljava | Oh crap, did we have the meeting soon?! | 17:26 |
| ScottL | oh.... | 17:34 |
| ScottL | i think we missed it :/ | 17:35 |
| ScottL | lol, i'm a bad lead :( | 17:35 |
| astraljava | No no, wasn't it 17:00 UTC? | 17:37 |
| astraljava | In less than half an hour. | 17:37 |
| ScottL | eh, i thought it was 1.75 hours ago, but either way we don't have a published agenda :( | 17:43 |
| astraljava | Ahh... true. | 17:44 |
| holstein | ScottL: dood | 18:10 |
| holstein | i had a long message like that earlier | 18:10 |
| holstein | that i deleted | 18:10 |
| holstein | im *so* glad that went out :) | 18:10 |
| holstein | astraljava: i agree | 18:11 |
| holstein | we could have announced it better probably | 18:11 |
| holstein | however, there are threads with that information in them | 18:11 |
| astraljava | holstein: True, but most people only see the official statement, and neglect to read the rest of the conversation. | 18:29 |
| astraljava | Okay I'll be watching hockey for a while now, maybe see ya later. | 18:30 |
| ScottL | holstein, you mean the post where i explained the reasons again? | 19:02 |
| Kokito | howdy | 19:06 |
| ScottL | hi Kokito | 19:09 |
| Kokito | sorry that I missed the meeting | 19:10 |
| ScottL | we didn't really have a meeting, its been overshadowed by the "we're moving to xfce" thread i fear | 19:10 |
| ScottL | i think it made everyone forget the meeting ;) | 19:11 |
| ScottL | 19:11 | |
| Kokito | ouch | 19:11 |
| ScottL | i could have handled some of the emails better | 19:11 |
| ScottL | i realize that i probably should have simply responded by acknowledging their position (xfce=bad) and then ask if they can provide more information | 19:12 |
| Kokito | I thought you showed a lot of patience | 19:12 |
| ScottL | lol, Kokito , thank you but i fear you are being gracious with that adjective :P | 19:13 |
| ScottL | i tend to be very objective orientated with points and conterpoints and very direct engagement | 19:14 |
| ScottL | i have a point to discussing and i want you to attack my position with logic and reason | 19:14 |
| ScottL | i score "major" points with my wife you can probably guess ;) | 19:14 |
| Kokito | :) | 19:14 |
| ScottL | Kokito, since you are here, how is the website going? | 19:18 |
| ScottL | oh, i'll probably do an apology email later on about this whole xfce thing, apologizing for not explaining it well originally and how i reacted by getting short with people | 19:18 |
| ScottL | Stuzz from #opensourcemusicians helped me with some drums: http://tinyurl.com/Braaiinnzzz | 19:20 |
| holstein | ScottL: thats nice :) | 19:20 |
| holstein | * the track | 19:20 |
| Kokito | hey holstein | 19:23 |
| Kokito | ScottL: I don't much of an opinion on the XFCE debate | 19:24 |
| ScottL | Kokito, and i respect that position | 19:26 |
| ScottL | i also respect the position that says "it's bad for X reason"...i was looking forward to this actually | 19:27 |
| Kokito | my only observation would be that, in Ubuntu, of all Unity is most likely to get the most development push/resources and thus seems to me the preferable choice if you consider long term growth. | 19:27 |
| ScottL | i wanted to understand really how people felt and fully wanted to validate our decision by exploring where people felt it as wrong for a particular reason | 19:27 |
| ScottL | Kokito, i'm not sure i agree with that argument because xfce is an upstream development, just like gnome was before | 19:28 |
| Kokito | staying with the mainstream Ubuntu may give you a better chance at cross-polination of resources | 19:28 |
| ScottL | hmmm, that's an interesting thought though (cross pollination of resources) | 19:28 |
| ScottL | but development should continue with xfce without ubuntu's involved (which i imagine was little anyway) | 19:29 |
| ScottL | i mean development in a general sense for xfce, not our development with xfce | 19:30 |
| ScottL | 19:30 | |
| ScottL | if we were going to use something besides xfce i would prefer gnome3 at this point over unity however | 19:30 |
| ScottL | simply because i think it is a more refined, stable, and functional base than unity AT THIS POINT | 19:31 |
| ScottL | i fully expect unity develop to keep up the amazing pace they have demonstrated last cycle | 19:31 |
| Kokito | ScottL: in my ignorance, adopting XFCE instead of Unity also feels like moving away from Ubuntu/Canonical. This has nothing to do with technical viability, but I am not sure if it may or may not have an (negative?) effect on the relationship with Canonical. Maybe I am just a bit too paranoid :) | 19:32 |
| ScottL | Kokito, haha, i don't think that's paranoia , just practical sense | 19:48 |
| ScottL | but my perspective is that canonical views ubuntu studio, not with disdain, but perhaps indifference | 19:48 |
| ScottL | i don't think, but i may be wrong, that shuttleworth is concerned that a niche derivative moves away from unity | 19:49 |
| ScottL | at least i am unaware of _any_ correspondence to anyone on the team from anyone in canonical in regards to the DE | 19:50 |
| Kokito | I never thought there was any disdain towards US. I tend to think, though, that staying on the mainstream Ubuntu (ie., Unity) gives you a better chance of being seen as potentially of value to Ubuntu core | 19:54 |
| Kokito | if instead of switching to XFCE the US team helps address whatever workflow shortcomings Unity may have, then your value (from a Canonical POV) increases; in contrast, moving to XFCE will most likely result in more indifference | 19:58 |
| Kokito | perhaps the change to Unity opens an opportunity to become more engaged with the Ubuntu core dev team, which cannot be bad IMHO | 20:01 |
| Kokito | but what do I know anyway Ñ= | 20:05 |
| Kokito | oops! that was meant to be a :) | 20:05 |
| Kokito | bbl | 20:05 |
| holstein | yeah, i can relate with that opinion | 20:10 |
| holstein | however, #2 with canonnical is kubuntu | 20:10 |
| ScottL | that was a good point | 20:15 |
| holstein | ScottL: did you see robert klaar's email? | 20:37 |
| holstein | i just responded | 20:38 |
| holstein | that is a great email | 20:38 |
| holstein | thats what we need* | 20:38 |
| holstein | healthy educated debate | 20:38 |
| holstein | actually, thats what we needed | 20:38 |
| holstein | its too late now | 20:38 |
| holstein | back when we had the thread about discussing the UI change | 20:39 |
| holstein | that would have been a great time for the debate | 20:39 |
| holstein | but, whatever | 20:39 |
| ScottL | yeah, that's good stuff, including hartmut and michaels 2nd response | 20:55 |
| holstein | yeah | 20:55 |
| holstein | things are much more clear now that you put the hammer down ;) | 20:56 |
| holstein | i can work with that | 20:56 |
| ScottL | but still the majority seems to think it will be a good move, including hartmut :) | 20:56 |
| holstein | michael is the same guy that said twice 'i think theres a compatibility mode' too | 20:56 |
| holstein | thats quite an improvment from 'i think there might be a way to keep gnome2' | 20:57 |
| ScottL | oh....well, he's right though, there is one...it's just not probably what he thought it would be :P | 20:57 |
| ScottL | lol | 20:57 |
| ScottL | yeah | 20:57 |
| ScottL | i wonder if we could translate this into more testers, bear with me... | 20:57 |
| ScottL | what if we said we're still moving with xfce, BUT... | 20:58 |
| ScottL | you think unity is better, fine, help us develop a way to test this and include it as an install time option | 20:58 |
| ScottL | edubuntu does this | 20:58 |
| ScottL | er, but then again, this might just shut people up | 20:58 |
| holstein | well, it might just chill folks out to know that we are planning on testing apps in unity | 20:59 |
| holstein | which we will/can | 20:59 |
| holstein | and that the current vanilla install would render unitystudio | 20:59 |
| holstein | pretty much | 20:59 |
| ScottL | ailo__, i'm putting natty on my main rig so i can test the -lowlatency with other hardware now | 21:00 |
| ailo__ | ok | 21:00 |
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