[00:01] astraljava, I suppose to offer a system perfectly tuned towards multimedia. And that has been the case with some of the release, but not all [00:02] ailo_: Yeah, but all the tweaks could be written into packages (via postinsts etc.), such as removing NetworkManager and the like. [00:02] astraljava, That's true [00:03] There's only one thing that comes to mind; if the intended machine will not be connected to Internet, so you can download most everything you will need in one file. [00:03] In exactly how many cases will this materialize? [00:03] No one knows. [00:04] It is becoming less and less common for people not to have Internet for sure. But, then there's the live image variant, which can be very useful too [00:06] I wonder how much resources the awn together with XFCE takes compared to Unity or Gnome3 [00:06] I guess. I have a hard time figuring out a session where you've loaded the whole OS into RAM, and then start recording/processing/whatever. But it might happen, I could just be totally ignorant regarding such incidents. [00:06] Maybe there should be a multimedia panel, that replaces all other panels :) [00:07] Not altogether a bad idea. :) [00:07] astraljava, You would never record on to RAM. You would use the existing hard drive or an external one [00:07] But, loading apps into RAM is what you do either way [00:07] And it works just as well, only loading the apps is slower [00:07] From CD especially, it's slower to load tha apps [00:08] ailo_: Of course, but the data doesn't go directly to the disk without running through RAM first, or does it? [00:08] ailo_: I guess you're right, it shouldn't be any different. [00:08] astraljava, I believe the OS runs pretty much identically, only that it reads programs from the live image when it loads, so it takes longer time [00:09] But running them is the same [00:09] Yep, don't know what I was thinking. :) [00:09] puredyne has a persistant live image, which you can create users on, and even install programs. [00:09] Using usb stick that is [00:09] It's really handy [00:10] You can bring your own system to any other machine [00:10] Yeah, never used but am aware. That's pretty nifty. [00:12] I used puredyne 911 as a live machine. Installed on hard drive. XFCE. The rt kernel from karmic. A very nice system [00:12] The live image comes in two sizes. CD and DVD [00:13] So, you have all the combinations you can think of [00:16] I would probably use the Puredyne live image creation as the base for an Ubuntu Studio live image [02:19] howdy [02:23] * Kokito is listening to Santana while shredding old useless documents [02:36] astraljava, one of the benefits of providing an install ISO for ubuntu studio is what we choose to exclude :) [02:37] oh, i see someone pointed this out [02:38] holstein, i just read in LXF that even though gnome3 has a fallback option to gnome panel, it is configured to behave like gnome shell [02:38] so, this means yes, we could try to default to gnome panel that is included with gnome 3 but it will still perform and look like gnome 3 without the 3d acceleration [04:11] ScottL: yeah [04:11] thats what im thinking [04:11] im looking for the option on the live CD i have [04:11] i'll have to get a new live CD though === ubott2 is now known as ubottu === kubotu_ is now known as kubotu === kubotu_ is now known as kubotu [15:57] ScottL: chkontros? [15:58] ckontros? [15:59] It's only 11 am, he can't possibly be up yet. *grin* [15:59] hehe [15:59] astraljava: is it chontos? [16:00] chontros [16:00] ckontros, and he's not even on the channel. [16:00] holstein: What do you use for IRC? [16:00] astraljava: yeah, thats why i cant remember his nick ;) [16:00] astraljava: i have irssi in screen [16:01] Okay, so you should have nick completion in tab. [16:01] Very useful to tell whether someone's on channel or not, as irssi doesn't show joined nicks by default. [16:03] astraljava: yeah [16:03] im not looking for him [16:03] i want to refer to him in an email [16:03] and couldnt remember the nick [16:03] Ahh... sorry. :) [16:04] no worries [16:04] i wasnt clear about it ;) [16:04] Yeah it's ckontros, c for Cory. [16:35] holstein: Trimming is recommended. :) [16:36] trimming? [16:36] i thought maybe i had accidentally sent that long, bitchy email i composed [16:36] to the mailing list ;) [16:38] No I mean when responding to others' posts, scrap the irrelevant portion. [16:38] :) [16:39] astraljava: i thought i had [16:39] When there's 257 lines in the post, it becomes tiresome checking it all for content. [16:39] or, i thought it was not shown [16:40] gmail? [16:40] it just shows up and 'quoted text' for me [16:40] yeah [16:40] Yeah. [16:40] that thread is ridiculous anyways [16:40] thats it for me [16:40] It doesn't show it to you, but it will still be sent. [16:40] Yeah I agree it got out of hand. [16:41] its just emotional [16:41] which is good in a way [16:41] even that last one [16:41] 'i dont know what XFCE is, but..' [16:41] its like, go Fn look [16:41] That's partly true, but... [16:41] theres xubuntu and puredyne [16:42] Yeah exactly. [16:42] and that other hard-on [16:42] that was like 5 or 6 back and forth threads [16:42] and then, "OH, i thought we were talking about LXDE' [16:42] Haha! Yeah cracked me up. :D [16:42] its a passionate crowd though [16:42] and thats good [16:43] we just need to get them in here [16:43] and involved [16:43] Yeah I guess. [16:43] involved in testing [16:43] and fixing, instead of bitching [16:43] *something i have been guilty of [16:43] thats partially why i wanted to get involved with fluxbuntu [16:43] stop bitching and fix it [16:44] so, now that i dont have time [16:44] i cant bitch about it anymore ;) [16:45] Well of course you can. :) People are allowed to have opinions. :) [16:45] hehe [17:15] oi, i'm here [17:16] i find the "we're changing to xfce" thread to be wearing thin on my patience [17:19] Maybe let it die already? :) [17:20] yes, you are right astraljava [17:21] But in hindsight, maybe Cory should have mentioned Gnome2 going away? Might have dismissed many who now nag about not using that. [17:21] Or GNOME 2, whatever. [17:22] yes, that would have helped quite a bit too ;) [17:22] but it would be helpful if people would read the rest of the thread to see if there is other information [17:23] Yeah, mailing list etiquette is lost on so many of us. [17:23] or if they would provide something tangible to argue against using xfce [17:24] i really welcome ANY information, pro or con [17:24] it would give us _some_ basis [17:24] Mostly people are just not comfortable for leaving something they have used for a long time. [17:26] Oh crap, did we have the meeting soon?! [17:34] oh.... [17:35] i think we missed it :/ [17:35] lol, i'm a bad lead :( [17:37] No no, wasn't it 17:00 UTC? [17:37] In less than half an hour. [17:43] eh, i thought it was 1.75 hours ago, but either way we don't have a published agenda :( [17:44] Ahh... true. [18:10] ScottL: dood [18:10] i had a long message like that earlier [18:10] that i deleted [18:10] im *so* glad that went out :) [18:11] astraljava: i agree [18:11] we could have announced it better probably [18:11] however, there are threads with that information in them [18:29] holstein: True, but most people only see the official statement, and neglect to read the rest of the conversation. [18:30] Okay I'll be watching hockey for a while now, maybe see ya later. [19:02] holstein, you mean the post where i explained the reasons again? [19:06] howdy [19:09] hi Kokito [19:10] sorry that I missed the meeting [19:10] we didn't really have a meeting, its been overshadowed by the "we're moving to xfce" thread i fear [19:11] i think it made everyone forget the meeting ;) [19:11] [19:11] ouch [19:11] i could have handled some of the emails better [19:12] i realize that i probably should have simply responded by acknowledging their position (xfce=bad) and then ask if they can provide more information [19:12] I thought you showed a lot of patience [19:13] lol, Kokito , thank you but i fear you are being gracious with that adjective :P [19:14] i tend to be very objective orientated with points and conterpoints and very direct engagement [19:14] i have a point to discussing and i want you to attack my position with logic and reason [19:14] i score "major" points with my wife you can probably guess ;) [19:14] :) [19:18] Kokito, since you are here, how is the website going? [19:18] oh, i'll probably do an apology email later on about this whole xfce thing, apologizing for not explaining it well originally and how i reacted by getting short with people [19:20] Stuzz from #opensourcemusicians helped me with some drums: http://tinyurl.com/Braaiinnzzz [19:20] ScottL: thats nice :) [19:20] * the track [19:23] hey holstein [19:24] ScottL: I don't much of an opinion on the XFCE debate [19:26] Kokito, and i respect that position [19:27] i also respect the position that says "it's bad for X reason"...i was looking forward to this actually [19:27] my only observation would be that, in Ubuntu, of all Unity is most likely to get the most development push/resources and thus seems to me the preferable choice if you consider long term growth. [19:27] i wanted to understand really how people felt and fully wanted to validate our decision by exploring where people felt it as wrong for a particular reason [19:28] Kokito, i'm not sure i agree with that argument because xfce is an upstream development, just like gnome was before [19:28] staying with the mainstream Ubuntu may give you a better chance at cross-polination of resources [19:28] hmmm, that's an interesting thought though (cross pollination of resources) [19:29] but development should continue with xfce without ubuntu's involved (which i imagine was little anyway) [19:30] i mean development in a general sense for xfce, not our development with xfce [19:30] [19:30] if we were going to use something besides xfce i would prefer gnome3 at this point over unity however [19:31] simply because i think it is a more refined, stable, and functional base than unity AT THIS POINT [19:31] i fully expect unity develop to keep up the amazing pace they have demonstrated last cycle [19:32] ScottL: in my ignorance, adopting XFCE instead of Unity also feels like moving away from Ubuntu/Canonical. This has nothing to do with technical viability, but I am not sure if it may or may not have an (negative?) effect on the relationship with Canonical. Maybe I am just a bit too paranoid :) [19:48] Kokito, haha, i don't think that's paranoia , just practical sense [19:48] but my perspective is that canonical views ubuntu studio, not with disdain, but perhaps indifference [19:49] i don't think, but i may be wrong, that shuttleworth is concerned that a niche derivative moves away from unity [19:50] at least i am unaware of _any_ correspondence to anyone on the team from anyone in canonical in regards to the DE [19:54] I never thought there was any disdain towards US. I tend to think, though, that staying on the mainstream Ubuntu (ie., Unity) gives you a better chance of being seen as potentially of value to Ubuntu core [19:58] if instead of switching to XFCE the US team helps address whatever workflow shortcomings Unity may have, then your value (from a Canonical POV) increases; in contrast, moving to XFCE will most likely result in more indifference [20:01] perhaps the change to Unity opens an opportunity to become more engaged with the Ubuntu core dev team, which cannot be bad IMHO [20:05] but what do I know anyway Ñ= [20:05] oops! that was meant to be a :) [20:05] bbl [20:10] yeah, i can relate with that opinion [20:10] however, #2 with canonnical is kubuntu [20:15] that was a good point [20:37] ScottL: did you see robert klaar's email? [20:38] i just responded [20:38] that is a great email [20:38] thats what we need* [20:38] healthy educated debate [20:38] actually, thats what we needed [20:38] its too late now [20:39] back when we had the thread about discussing the UI change [20:39] that would have been a great time for the debate [20:39] but, whatever [20:55] yeah, that's good stuff, including hartmut and michaels 2nd response [20:55] yeah [20:56] things are much more clear now that you put the hammer down ;) [20:56] i can work with that [20:56] but still the majority seems to think it will be a good move, including hartmut :) [20:56] michael is the same guy that said twice 'i think theres a compatibility mode' too [20:57] thats quite an improvment from 'i think there might be a way to keep gnome2' [20:57] oh....well, he's right though, there is one...it's just not probably what he thought it would be :P [20:57] lol [20:57] yeah [20:57] i wonder if we could translate this into more testers, bear with me... [20:58] what if we said we're still moving with xfce, BUT... [20:58] you think unity is better, fine, help us develop a way to test this and include it as an install time option [20:58] edubuntu does this [20:58] er, but then again, this might just shut people up [20:59] well, it might just chill folks out to know that we are planning on testing apps in unity [20:59] which we will/can [20:59] and that the current vanilla install would render unitystudio [20:59] pretty much [21:00] ailo__, i'm putting natty on my main rig so i can test the -lowlatency with other hardware now [21:00] ok