[12:40] <AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityInfrastructure if people want to help with that it would be great
[12:40] <AlanBell> going to make it a blog article then wiki page
[12:46] <MrChrisDruif> Ahh...orangy :D
[12:47] <MrChrisDruif> ....no, not blue <_<"
[12:53] <cprofitt> nice AlanBell 
[12:53] <cprofitt> that was a good read
[13:06] <AlanBell> need TheMuso and maco do explain more of the at-spi and qt-at-spi stuff
[13:44] <hajour> hi all
[13:52] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha hajour 
[13:53] <hajour> hi MrChrisDruif 
[13:54] <AlanBell> hi hajour, did you enjoy UDS?
[13:54] <hajour> yes last 2 days most AlanBell 
[13:54] <hajour> no last 3
[13:55] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, is this pad for Ubuntu-Manual ?
[13:55] <AlanBell> not really, but I suppose it could be
[13:55] <UndiFineD> I think it would be very readable
[13:56] <UndiFineD> http://pad.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityInfrastructure <- hajour 
[13:57] <hajour> ok thanks UndiFineD 
[13:57] <AlanBell> TheMuso suggested writing something like that so people know how the Ubuntu accessibility infrastructure slots together
[13:57] <UndiFineD> Well the manual needs a chpter on it anyways
[13:57] <AlanBell> I think he was a bit perplexed by whatever it is that browserspeak is attempting to do
[13:57] <UndiFineD> so I think this could be used there
[13:58] <AlanBell> sure, it can go in the manual, that would be great
[13:58] <AlanBell> I will also run it past Amber to see if she wants any of it for the official book
[13:59] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, well eventually I hope to see SpeechControl like: Simon Listens -> command execution -> output humanification -> speechdispatcher
[13:59] <hajour> AlanBell, we can suggest to make a option to choose to have lines or speak or boths
[13:59] <UndiFineD> the first 2 are already there and the last, we are just missing the humanification
[14:00] <AlanBell> the first two are not in Ubuntu
[14:00] <hajour> i can take contact with them about that
[14:00] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, as I understand bedahr is still working on that
[14:00] <AlanBell> hajour: not sure I understand about lines?
[14:00] <hajour> i can read finally my mail now very happy about that
[14:00] <hajour> well i just thought about a thing
[14:01] <hajour> they want to get rid of fonts by the buttons from firefox ect
[14:01] <hajour> and replace it with speech
[14:01] <hajour> but
[14:02] <hajour> i was thinking i not sure about that so just  fill me more in.do braille programs not need just the fonts also?
[14:02] <hajour> i mean do braille programs the fonts
[14:02] <hajour> AlanBell, 
[14:02] <AlanBell> really not sure what you mean now
[14:02] <AlanBell> braille does not have fonts, it is a pattern of dots
[14:03] <hajour> yes i know
[14:03] <AlanBell> orca can output to braille readers
[14:03] <hajour> ok great
[14:03] <hajour> was afraid i had make mistake AlanBell 
[14:03] <hajour> i am only human i learn everyday more
[14:05] <AlanBell> you mean "text" rather than "font"?
[14:05] <AlanBell> font is the shape or style of letters
[14:05] <hajour> they want replace font by speech
[14:05] <MrChrisDruif> hajour; The same input used to make speech can be used for input in braille machine afaik
[14:06] <hajour> what i really would like to know or the fonts are needed still somewhere for a accessibility program AlanBell 
[14:06] <AlanBell> you really don't mean fonts!
[14:07] <AlanBell> so a gtk button widget should have an accessible name which orca can read, even if it has no text lable associated with it
[14:08] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display
[14:08] <hajour> o how it is called then AlanBell ?
[14:08] <AlanBell> I think you are talking about a text label on a button
[14:08] <AlanBell> a font is a typeface
[14:13] <hajour> the pic s what are on a tabel AlanBell 
[14:15] <AlanBell> sorry, I don't understand
[14:16] <hajour> a icon
[14:16] <hajour> just heard from UndiFineD 
[14:16] <hajour> go over the icon with your mouse and then it speaks
[14:18] <AlanBell> so in the orca preferences check the "speak object under mouse" checkbox
[14:19] <hajour> yes that go work automatically 
[14:20] <AlanBell> ok, but they are not going to enable at-spi and orca by default
[14:20] <AlanBell> or have the computer making noises by default
[15:06] <hajour> just have read back AlanBell  thanks for explaining
[22:21] <AlanBell> hi all
[22:22] <AlanBell> we talked some time ago about compiling a "most wanted" list of a11y applications
[22:22] <AlanBell> any suggestions for such a list?
[22:29] <MrChrisDruif> speechcontrol ;)
[22:30] <fregl> maco: there you have my proposal to get rid of QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 on the mailing lists
[22:31] <maco> yay!
[22:36]  * AlanBell wonders if maco has a few minutes to look at http://pad.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityInfrastructure
[22:41] <AlanBell> maco: I was mostly guessing at the at-spi and qt-at-spi stuff so feel free to correct me
[22:41] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/Goals ?
[22:41] <charlie-tca> or maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/NewSoftware
[22:41] <charlie-tca> or a page linked from one of those?
[22:41] <maco> AlanBell: looking
[22:42] <maco> AlanBell: sorry im an auto-editor, so you're getting spelling/capitalisation/etc. stuff in here too
[22:43] <AlanBell> yay
[22:44] <MrChrisDruif> Ahhh, charlie-tca :D
[22:44] <MrChrisDruif> I wanted to talk to you :)
[22:44] <maco> AlanBell: should i or shouldnt i add kxkbd to the onscreen kbd section?
[22:44] <AlanBell> you should :)
[22:46] <MrChrisDruif> charlie-tca; are you available for a small chat?
[22:46] <charlie-tca> sure, got about 3 minutes now
[22:46] <MrChrisDruif> xD
[22:46] <MrChrisDruif> Might cut it close
[22:46] <charlie-tca> busy day today for me
[22:46] <MrChrisDruif> Alrighty; you are test-manager or something for one of the Ubuntu projects or something?
[22:47] <charlie-tca> may have to head out of town again tonight to see a friend that won't make the night
[22:47] <charlie-tca> yes
[22:47] <charlie-tca> I test a lot of images
[22:47] <charlie-tca> and I am the Xubuntu Project testing lead
[22:47] <charlie-tca> and I seem to be the accessibility testing person too
[22:47] <MrChrisDruif> That was it....anyhow, what does it mean to be testing lead?
[22:48] <charlie-tca> It means writing the test cases, which describe how to test the image or applications, do the tests, file bugs when things fail, follow up and test again when something changes
[22:49] <charlie-tca> maintain the testing pages of the team wiki, make sure people know to contact for issues with testing
[22:49] <charlie-tca> I downĺoad and test up to 8 images a day
[22:49] <MrChrisDruif> .....O_O
[22:50] <MrChrisDruif> O......M......G......!
[22:50] <MrChrisDruif> 8?
[22:50] <MrChrisDruif> Different distros?
[22:50] <charlie-tca> and I told kubuntu I would add their accessibility testing to my lists
[22:50] <charlie-tca> ubuntu alternate and desktop, 32 and 64bit
[22:50] <charlie-tca> xubuntu alternate and desktop, 32 and 64 bit
[22:50] <charlie-tca> studio alternate 32 and 64 bit
[22:51] <MrChrisDruif> Ahh, alright
[22:51] <charlie-tca> and server images
[22:51] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, that would be 4 per distro
[22:51] <charlie-tca> it takes me about 4 to 6 hours to zsync right now
[22:51] <charlie-tca> and now, add Kubuntu
[22:51] <MrChrisDruif> zsync?
[22:52] <charlie-tca> replacement for rsync, so you don't have to download the complete image each time
[22:52] <charlie-tca> it just grabs the changes and adds them in to the image on the hard disk
[22:52] <MrChrisDruif> That would be so awesome =-O :D:D
[22:52] <MrChrisDruif> That would also help *my idea*
[22:52] <charlie-tca> That means if I have to download the entire images, I can not do it in 24 hours
[22:53] <MrChrisDruif> Slow connection?
[22:53] <charlie-tca> very
[22:53] <MrChrisDruif> Dial-up?
[22:53] <charlie-tca> about 8 hours for the ubuntu dvd
[22:53] <charlie-tca> no, broadband
[22:53] <charlie-tca> 1.2 Mb/s
[22:53] <MrChrisDruif> But 8 hours for dvd?
[22:53] <charlie-tca> except reality is 256 kb
[22:54] <MrChrisDruif> Torrents ftw
[22:55] <MrChrisDruif> Where could I get started on getting set up? What kinds of tests should I think of etc?
[22:55] <charlie-tca> for?
[22:56] <charlie-tca> start with basic user installation. What does the user need to do to make the install work?
[22:56] <charlie-tca> Can the user get a part of the app working, then must configure things?
[22:56] <MrChrisDruif> Head of Testing
[22:57] <charlie-tca> Do they need to add any library files?
[22:57] <maco> AlanBell: ok, there are some edits
[22:57] <charlie-tca> when the software is installed, does it work or must they first do something?
[22:57] <charlie-tca> If it works, are there shortcut keys that can be used? do they all work?
[22:57] <AlanBell> thanks maco 
[22:58] <charlie-tca> Does the software actually do what the user expects instead of what the developers expect?
[22:58] <MrChrisDruif> There isn't a page about that? What kind of tests do you do for the images?
[22:58] <charlie-tca> The tests we do we wrote
[22:59] <charlie-tca> Here is the page of QA tests - http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/
[22:59] <charlie-tca> note there are install tests, and application tests
[22:59] <charlie-tca> for the images, we do about 8 tests per image just to test the installs
[23:01] <charlie-tca> anything that does not work according to the user expectations is a fail
[23:03] <charlie-tca> The fact that something works for 32bit does not mean woriking in 64bit. Working on desktop image can still fail on alternate image
[23:03] <charlie-tca> okay, gotta run
[23:03] <MrChrisDruif> Thanks so far charlie-tca, well talk again :)
[23:03] <MrChrisDruif> we'll*