[00:19] <shauno> hm.  pogoplug on ibood.  can't decide if interesting is 50eur worth of interesting
[01:15] <popey> !gnome3
[07:37] <Apacheuk> morning all
[07:39] <popey> morning
[08:02] <Apacheuk> is it too early for a question re ubuntu one?
[08:02] <popey> nah, go for it
[08:02] <popey> #ubuntuone might be better though :)
[08:02] <popey> depending on the question
[08:03] <Apacheuk> is there a way to make a directory only sync one way? I want to have a backup directory, but don't want it to sync to all my other machines?
[08:05] <popey> dont think so
[08:05] <Apacheuk> will as in there.... cheers
[08:06] <Apacheuk> thats annoying, it would be handy.... and I would definitely buy more storage from Cononical :)
[08:12] <dwatkins> mornin folks
[08:41] <popey> Apacheuk: I've started using spideroak
[08:52] <DJones> Morning
[08:54] <Apacheuk> popey: will take look now
[08:57] <Apacheuk> Popey:I think I can get UbuntuOne to do what I want.... thanks to the #ubuntuone channel, sync a dir on one machine but don't subscribe to it on others
[09:02] <gord> Apacheuk, you can select on your machines which folders you want to sync. so yes
[09:02] <gord> Apacheuk, basically, share that folder on one machine, go to the ubuntu one control panel on your other machines and uncheck the box
[09:06] <popey> nice
[09:10] <gord> huh.. PSN is back up the day i'm back to work... suspicious
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> gord: it was up yesterday evening
[09:11] <TheAshMan> How do I recursively chown a directory that has sub directories and hidden files & folders?
[09:11] <dutchie> chown -R should do it
[09:11] <diplo> chown -R
[09:11] <diplo> :)
[09:12] <TheAshMan> diplo, dutchie: it seems that doesn't own the hidden files multi levels deep
[09:12] <dutchie> you could probably throw together some monstrosity with find and xargs then
[09:13] <TheAshMan> hmm
[09:13] <diplo> .* at the end ?
[09:13] <dutchie> find top-dir/ -print0 | xargs -0 chown foo:foo
[09:14] <diplo> dutchies solution probably better
[09:14] <diplo> wonder if .* will follow ../ back :)
[09:14] <shauno> it just did on mine :)
[09:31] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[09:32] <hoover> hi folks
[09:32] <hoover> hey biggie
[09:32] <bigcalm> Hi hoovie
[09:32] <hoover> all well mate?
[09:34] <bigcalm> It's Monday...
[09:34] <hoover> "montag ist schontag" ;-)
[09:35] <bigcalm> schontag?
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> beautiful/nice day
[09:39] <bigcalm> Good for you :P
[09:40] <bigcalm> It's gone cold/overcast/windy
[09:40] <oimon> yeah i'm chilly here
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: not that's what "schontag" means
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> almost
[09:41] <kazade> morning all
[09:45] <oimon> noticing that my memory utilization on this PC has stabilised a lot since switching to chromium
[09:45] <oimon> instead of firefox
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> \o/ chromium
[09:47] <oimon> still prefer firefox UI though :(
[09:47] <gord> on my netbook if i use chromium i run out of memory fast. memory usage is too tied in to tabs
[09:48] <HazRPG> anyone good with grub2?
[09:48] <popey> !anyone
[09:48] <popey> :)
[09:48] <oimon> popey: how did you get on with chromium OS install?
[09:48] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:48] <popey> heh, forgot
[09:49] <gord> ah, i figured it out. evolution hates me and thats why when i check "subscribe to this folder" it unchecks it
[09:49] <popey> it built but i didnt test it
[09:49] <HazRPG> I keep getting "filel not found"
[09:49] <HazRPG> for an iso
[09:49] <popey> ooo
[09:49] <oimon> found it strange that u need a 64 bit system to buld it on
[09:49] <HazRPG> bah this internet here is so painful
[09:49] <HazRPG> file*
[09:49] <popey> oh i had an issue with it
[09:49] <hoover> "schontag": A day to take a relaxed attitude ;-)
[09:49] <popey> for some reason it was looking for VBoxManage inside the chroot
[09:50] <popey> which is odd because VirtualBox is installed outside the chroot
[09:50] <popey> so no idea how that is ever supposed to work
[09:50] <gord> did anyone follow the default browser talk at UDS?
[09:50] <gord> wondering what the outcome of that was
[09:50] <oimon> you built it on 64 bit lucid install ?
[09:50] <HazRPG> this is from a thumbdrive i should mention btw
[09:52] <popey> oimon: no, natty
[09:52] <oimon> popey: don't they recommend lucid?
[09:53] <popey> maybe
[09:53] <popey> doesnt really matter, the build happens inside a chroot
[09:53] <HazRPG> oh, i think i've figured it out
[09:53] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:53] <gord> morning czajkowski
[09:54] <HazRPG> my iso's have the permissions -rwxr-x---
[09:54] <oimon> http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-guide#TOC-Preliminary-requirements: Most developers working on Chromium OS are using Lucid (the LTS version of Ubuntu) and will not be updating to 10.10. It is possible that things will work if you're running a different Linux distribution, but you will probably find life easier if you're on Lucid. Please note that Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) is known not to work.
[09:54] <HazRPG> that might be why ^_^
[09:54] <czajkowski> gord: howdy
[09:55] <gord> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/13405464 <--- i'm actually offended that BBC chose to put this in the "technology" news feed.
[09:55] <popey> oimon: it builds fine, its not a problem
[09:56] <oimon> oh ok
[09:56] <popey> gord: news beat though, news for young people with ADHD
[09:56] <oimon> news that is not news..
[09:59] <oimon> was about to throw away my laser printer when i realised that it was an ubuntu bug...here was me thinking it was due to thefact that it is > 10 years old
[09:59] <oimon> swapped PS driver for PCL and seems to work fine again :D
[10:00] <oimon> which is more than i can say for my inkjet grrr
[10:11] <brobostigon> good morning everyone
[10:21] <daubers> Morning
[10:21] <brobostigon> morning daubers
[10:29] <oimon> ugh nobody wants to sell me stuff :( thought people would be keen for business nowadays but no :(
[10:29]  * oimon has money burning a hoel in his pocket
[10:30] <DJones> Perhaps you're trying to buy the wrong things
[10:35] <bigcalm> popey: poke
[10:35] <bigcalm> Oops
[10:35] <bigcalm> popey: ping
[10:40] <oimon> new alpha.gov project runs ubuntu: http://blog.alpha.gov.uk/colophon
[10:48] <czajkowski> canonical website sends you your email password in plain text
[10:48] <czajkowski> not smart!
[10:50] <gord> you can log in to the canonical website? o_O
[10:50] <popey> bigcalm: hmm?
[10:51] <popey> ah yes
[10:51] <bigcalm> popey: you were going to give me an email address
[10:51] <bigcalm> :)
[10:51] <czajkowski> gord: careers page
[10:51] <jpds> czajkowski: No, that's ROT26.
[10:51] <czajkowski> jpds: couldnt remember my password so it just mailed it to me in plain text
[10:52] <czajkowski> jpds: point me in the right direction to file a bug and I will
[10:52] <popey> bigcalm: pm :)
[10:53] <oimon> what can i do if the "Stop publishing via ubuntu one" is greyed out? - i seem to have published something but cannot get the url or stop publishing it
[10:55] <oimon> hmm website says it's not published :S
[10:56] <czajkowski> oh no davmor2 to harass
[10:57] <popey> oimon: there is some fun stuff published on U1 :D
[10:58] <oimon> popey: yeah, i've noticed :D
[10:59] <oimon> i guess there's no server side encryption
[11:01] <oimon> bug 375289
[11:03] <nigelb> o/
[11:03] <popey> I'd be surprised if they ever did that
[11:04] <popey> they're probably doing the same de-dupe that dropbox do
[11:05] <oimon> yeah
[11:09] <popey> http://www.bbcshop.com/matt-smith/doctor-who-dalek-progenitor-room-mini-set/invt/03857
[11:09] <popey> cute
[11:09] <popey> I have switched to spideroak
[11:11] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:11] <davmor2> I'm back in a real time zone
[11:11] <bigcalm> GMT?
[11:12] <popey> the 1970's?
[11:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: bst but yes
[11:12] <davmor2> popey: no you and I both know the 80's is the only real decade right
[11:13] <popey> hehe, knew you'd say that :)
[11:13] <davmor2> popey: Can't argue with the truth ;)
[11:13] <popey> :)
[11:14] <bigcalm> I have to agree
[11:14] <davmor2> So who tuned into uds and what is happening?
[11:14] <oimon> as soon as ubuntu one gains a few more features it will be indispensible for ubuntu users
[11:15]  * davmor2 gives czajkowski a I'm back home prod
[11:15] <davmor2> oimon: you mean it isn't now I use it all the time
[11:16] <oimon> davmor2: it's useful now..but with tighter integration and some extra features, many more users will be onboard, i'm sure
[11:16]  * czajkowski prods davmor2 
[11:18] <gord> just ordered myself a new laptop, thinkpad X220 - all very exciting. course the ideal situation is that my previous laptop would not of died half way through UDS but hey
[11:18] <oimon> X220 tablet?
[11:18] <oimon> or the regular lappy
[11:18] <X3N> Anyone got a Intel 5300 wireless... working..?
[11:18] <gord> laptop
[11:18] <oimon> ok - waiting for stock so i can buy the tablet
[11:18] <gord> 7.something hours of battery life :) (on windows)
[11:19] <popey> 3.something hours of battery life :( (on Ubuntu)
[11:19] <gord> the lenovo website was selling them stupid cheep, all the resellers were £1000+ excluding tax, lenovo sold to me for £821 including tax
[11:19] <gord> i'll run it on windows with ubuntu in a VM ;)
[11:19] <popey> blimey, thats a good deal
[11:19] <bigcalm> o.O
[11:20] <oimon> gord: thats handy - do they sell to the UK?
[11:20] <gord> yup
[11:20] <gord> price was in sterling with UK tax, no importing
[11:20] <oimon> i think i looked last month and the site was bare..maybe the x220t wasnt out by then
[11:22] <oimon> yeah...still the same - only selling the x201 tablet, even though a reseller has the x220
[11:25] <gord> http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/gbweb/LenovoPortal/en_GB/builder.workflow:Enter?sb=%3A000000F0%3A0000022B%3A&smid=7543BB138E644775A33CC781942250F1 - there you go
[11:26] <gord> oh unless you want the x220 tablet?
[11:26] <oimon> yep :D
[11:27] <oimon> it's hard to get news about it, not sure if it is properly out yet or not
[11:34] <gord> still don't trust tablets :) no one seems to have a good user story for them
[11:35] <popey> a good user story, seriously?
[11:35] <popey> how many ipads have been sold so far?
[11:36] <oimon> well the x200t is a laptop hybrid so it's largely a laptop with note taking ability
[11:36] <gord> i'm not questioning that, but the ipad is really a big phone. it works, but it sort of feels like a ported phone user story rather than a tablet story
[11:38] <popey> mine isnt a big phone, it has no phone capabilities
[11:38] <popey> I have never made a call on it
[11:38] <gord> without the nit-picking ;)
[11:39] <oimon> http://dag.wieers.com/blog/centos-devel-ml-feels-like-devnull
[11:39] <oimon> centos is really suffering right now :(
[11:39] <popey> fair enough, I know nothing, clearly.
[11:40] <gord> i didn't say that, nor do i think it - i just thought it was obvious what i meant by "phone" - the use of the word has been twisted into what it is today, a device that can also make phone calls, maybe, i mean, it doesn't have to, i'd still call it a phone
[11:40] <AlanBell> are there large android tablets that can make calls?
[11:41] <popey> it was not obvious to me, no
[11:41] <gord> i'm not sure, i doubt honeycomb has that built in, but i would expect they could once 3.0 and 2.* merge in ics
[11:41] <popey> That's how I understood it, phone bits from 2.x go into 3.x to make ICS
[11:44] <DJones> AlanBell: http://www.merimobiles.com/Kinpad_7_3G_8GB_CALLS_SMS_PREORDER_NOW_p/meri0540.htm Android tablet that says it can make & receive calls
[11:44] <gord> do you have to hold it to your head?
[11:48] <AlanBell> heh, he does in the video
[11:48] <AlanBell> I was thinking that a tablet + bluetooth headset would work well as a phone
[11:49] <popey> I was thinking a phone works quite well as a phone :)
[11:50] <bigcalm> 11 days until my 7" android tablet gets shipped
[11:50] <bigcalm> popey: we're getting closer to me spamming the channel as promised :P
[11:50] <X3N> which one are you getting bigcalm ?
[11:50] <DJones> I was looking at this yesterday http://www.firebox.com/product/3592/Sagemcom-Sixty-Cordless-Telephone
[11:51] <bigcalm> X3N: http://www.kogan.co.uk/shop/7-inch-tablet-pc-android/
[11:51] <X3N> 0_o
[11:51] <bigcalm> Nice responce
[11:52] <DJones> A couple of days ago, somebody was asking about whether HDMI output worked with Natty, does that ring a bell with anyone as to who it was?
[11:54] <DJones> Found it
[11:55] <DJones> They're offline anyway
[12:15] <oimon> http://www.firebox.com/product/1902/Stylophone-Original :D
[12:15] <bigcalm> Oh god
[12:16] <bigcalm> Unless you can play it like Rolf Harris, it's a horrible device
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: practice, practice, practice
[12:16] <oimon> buy it for the children of people you want to annoy :D
[12:17] <DJones> Heh http://www.firebox.com/product/2854/Bacon-Chocolate
[12:18] <oimon> that's expensive stuff
[12:18] <DJones> I can't decide which is a worse idea, bacon chocolate, or bacon toothpaste *Although we do have beef flavoured toothpaste for the dogs)
[12:18] <oimon> off to lunch..haven't eaten for 16 hr and it's agony
[12:20] <bigcalm> popey: hardware will be with me on Wednesday \o/
[12:20]  * bigcalm dances a wee happy dance
[12:26] <popey> bigcalm: yay
[12:26] <popey> she sorted you out?
[12:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: don't dance a wee it will go everywhere
[12:26] <davmor2> s/a/and
[12:30] <bigcalm> popey: no, I called up 150 again. Asked for an update. They had no record. Passed me on to an internal account department. They passed me back to 150 customer services but told them how to apply the upgrade and retain the discount
[12:31] <popey> yay
[12:31] <bigcalm> popey: at the start of the last call, the bloke asked me what I wanted to upgrade to. A little confused I said 30mb. At the end of the call I quizzed him on this and aparently we can upgrade to 50mb or 100mb and retain the discount. Just a monthly increase by 6.51 or 16 quid
[12:31] <bigcalm> So, good to know for the future
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> 100mb? nice
[12:32]  * bigcalm rocked the boat and didn't fall out!
[12:33] <popey> oooooooooooo
[12:33] <popey> 100
[12:35] <bigcalm> popey: think you could convince mrs popey that 16 quid a month is a good investment? ;)
[12:35] <bigcalm> That is if you are in a 100mb area
[12:35] <gord> bigcalm, don't rock the boat baby
[12:36] <bigcalm> Rock the boat, rock the boat
[12:39]  * bigcalm thinks that popey is on the blower with VirginMedia customer services ;)
[12:40] <bigcalm> Or with Mrs Popey to get permission :P
[12:40]  * exobuzz just wants the 10mbit upstream
[12:40] <exobuzz> 100 would be better but
[12:40] <bigcalm> exobuzz: I want never gets...
[12:40] <exobuzz> lol
[12:45] <popey> heh
[12:45] <bigcalm> Humm. What to do with my own bought Cisco N wifi router...
[12:47] <popey> ebay
[12:51] <exobuzz> post it to me
[12:53] <DJones> popey: Reading that you'd changed over to spideroak, how do you find it in comparison to dropbox
[12:55] <popey> ask me again in a week once I've set it up and used it for a bit
[12:55] <DJones> :)
[12:55] <exobuzz> popey, this because of the dropbox benig liars thing ?
[12:55] <exobuzz> being
[12:56] <exobuzz> and being able to get at your data when they want
[12:56] <exobuzz> (or when the government wants, which is most of the time)
[12:57] <popey> partly
[12:57] <popey> I've been concerned for a while that the data isnt encrypted fully
[12:57] <popey> whereas AIUI spideroak is
[12:58] <exobuzz> yeh
[13:06] <gord> interesting, i seem to have enabled some mode in evolution that makes it crash constantly
[13:06] <bigcalm> gord: ah, the default action
[13:07] <oimon> i call that normal mode
[13:07] <popey> bigcalm: http://tarby.popey.com/
[13:07] <popey> oimon: http://joke.popey.com/
[13:07] <bigcalm> Evolution is not to be trusted with your email
[13:07] <bigcalm> s/ with your email//
[13:07] <gord> its normally pretty stable for me, but i decided to restructure my folders for email, no longer is everything in INBOX/foo or whatever, now its just in /foo/bar and /foo/baz - but thats too much to handle. it freaks out and segfaults
[13:08] <MartijnVdS> This is why I love gmail
[13:09] <JamesTait> Is this the part where someone interjects with "Thunderbird should be the default mail client"?
[13:09] <oimon> Thunderbird should be the default mail client
[13:10] <JamesTait> I thought so. :)
[13:11] <JamesTait> Well, work is being done to make it so. But there is much to do.
[13:12] <bigcalm> Mutt!
[13:13] <oimon> !info seahorse
[13:13] <oimon> bigcalm: pine is more popular among my users
[13:13] <DJones> selinuxium: Was it you that was asking about hdmi on natty a day or so back
[13:13] <bigcalm> oimon: I like the default view of mutt
[13:13] <selinuxium> DJones, yup :)
[13:14] <nigelb> JamesTait: I take it you got back fine :)
[13:14] <JamesTait> Hey nigelb - yes, I did, thanks!  You too?
[13:14] <selinuxium> DJones, I was wondering as it is a HDMI to Composite cable, the graphics card is not being notified of the connection...
[13:14] <nigelb> JamesTait: yup, day 1 back at work is almost over too :)
[13:14] <oimon> bigcalm: u know how my pine users find old emails? they search and then forward it to themselves
[13:14] <DJones> Did you get it working, I tried yesterday with my laptop + TV and it worked ok for me, just found I had to reboot to avoid any screen corruption
[13:15] <bigcalm> oimon: :'-(
[13:15] <JamesTait> nigelb: I'm only about half way through, and last week is starting to catch up with me. :/
[13:15] <acperkins> last week felt like such a long week :(
[13:15] <nigelb> JamesTait: I slept for 15 hours straight, which helped a bit. Still tired though
[13:16] <oimon> my baby son has discovered that if he stands in his cot and shakes it vigourously, i come running :( ..either that or it breaks
[13:16] <DJones> selinuxium: Mine was a straight hdmi->hdmi cable, the only problem I found was that I had to enable hdmi sound output seperatly
[13:17] <selinuxium> DJones, I may get an hdmi to hdmi and try it on the other screen..
[13:17] <JamesTait> nigelb: I wish I had that option! Altough it was nice to wake up to the sound of my boys laughing yesterday, even though I was still tired.
[13:17] <nigelb> :)
[13:17] <daubers> oimon: how old?
[13:18] <oimon> 16 months
[13:18] <oimon> he pretty much shakes the cot across the room
[13:18]  * JamesTait heads off for lunch.
[13:18] <popey> i was woken up yesterday to my 4 year old son shoving a a remote control car in my face "DADDY! Change the batteries!"
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: aww :)
[13:19] <oimon> hehehe, my son has learned already that daddy fixes stuff. the batteries in his walking turtle died...rather than throw it across the room, he crawls over to me,does the sad face and says TAAAAAA!TAAA!
[13:20] <popey> :)
[13:20] <oimon> had to give him the batteries from teh wii remote :(
[13:20] <popey> pound shop batteries
[13:20] <popey> great for kids toys
[13:21] <popey> I couldn't care less if they go dead in the device, they're <10p each
[13:21] <bigcalm> Oh, that reminds me that I bought Lego Pirates at the weekend and should continue playing it this lunchtime :D
[13:21] <oimon> hmm should try that
[13:21] <bigcalm> There are more puzzles in this game than they bothered with in Lego SW Clone Wars
[13:22] <bigcalm> A return to form
[13:22] <oimon> looking at seahorse encryption, i wonder why it's not the default in nautilus
[13:22] <gord> i signed on to psn during my lunch break. it was amazing
[13:22] <popey> which reminds me I need to get some cheap hornby 00 gauge stuff
[13:23]  * oimon checks his hornby shares
[13:23] <popey> oooooo
[13:23] <popey> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Model-Railway-Hornby-00-Track-almost-6kg-packed-VGC-/290564098877?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item43a6f84b3d#ht_997wt_815
[13:25] <exobuzz> popey, train geek too? :)
[13:26] <oimon> how much do you guys allow yourselves to spend on fun budget per month?
[13:26] <exobuzz> as much as i have
[13:26] <oimon> my wife and I have an arrangement - anything spent with fun budget cannot be questioned.
[13:27] <popey> that stuff is for #1 son
[13:27] <popey> not for me
[13:27] <oimon> all other purchases can be vetoed
[13:27] <popey> ahem
[13:27] <oimon> ahem indeed
[13:27] <exobuzz> popey, sure sure.. can i come round and play too? :)
[13:27] <oimon> i'll be on the sclaextric
[13:29] <exobuzz> the amount i spend from my "fun budget" on beer is always questioned
[13:29] <oimon> i don't really drink anymore
[13:30] <exobuzz> i probably shouldnt drink as much as i do
[13:30] <oimon> unfortunately i discovered that beer was keeping my weight at normal
[13:30] <oimon> when i stopped drinking around 25 , i lost weight that i've never been able to regain
[13:30] <exobuzz> eat curry
[13:30] <oimon> :( have a chilli intolerance
[13:30] <exobuzz> lots and lots of curry
[13:30] <oimon> since the same age
[13:30] <exobuzz> s/curry/mild curry/
[13:31] <oimon> hmm wonder if there's a connection
[13:31] <exobuzz> i have a chilli intolerance today, after the vindaloo last night
[13:31] <exobuzz> not quite the same thing perhaps heh
[13:33] <exobuzz> it was only this one mind, but still has a kick http://www.sharwoods.com/Indian/products/sharwoods-goan-vindaloo-cooking-sauce.cfm
[13:33] <oimon> is it a good idea to encrypt my files with the same key i used to create the pgp key i used for launchpad?
[13:34] <exobuzz> that's fine. you only gave the public key to launchpad
[13:35] <oimon> is that what ppl normally do though, or use another one?
[13:35] <exobuzz> i think it's fine anyway.
[13:35] <exobuzz> heh
[13:40] <dwatkins> oimon: just got back from lunch and read the scrollback - my brother made a point of removing batteries from noisy toys before his kids got them when they were younger, so they wouldn't even know that the noise was an option
[13:41] <oimon> dwatkins: yeah :) i do that for some toys, although others need batteries for other functionality..if only i can perforate the speaker with a sharp pin..
[13:42] <dwatkins> my SO bought a cheap kids' laptop from the supermarket the other day, she wants to put the innards of an Eee 701 in it :D
[13:42] <dwatkins> it has a cow on the outside, it's kinda cute
[13:48] <DJones> I had a computer with a cow on it once, made by Gateway :)
[13:51] <oimon> lol, you alsways used to see those boxes after christmas left out for the dustman
[13:51] <oimon> giant cow box
[14:04] <oimon> hmm why is it so difficult to disable the cache on chromium?
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> oimon: hard? Shift+Ctrl+T -> new incognito tab
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> uhr no that's reopen old tab
[14:07] <oimon> MartijnVdS: i want to disable disk cache permanently
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> ctrl+shift+n
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> open new private browsing window :)
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> just use those
[14:08] <oimon> doesn't sound ideal ;(
[14:10] <BigRedS> whoo! Natty's alt-f2 doesn't clobber middle-click paste :)
[14:20] <hamitron> hmmm
[14:20] <daubers> ungous?
[14:22] <daubers> Can someone fix the topic? There's supposed to be another p at the end of that url :)
[14:23] <daubers> ta :)
[14:24]  * dutchie ponders getting a new monitor
[14:24] <dutchie> recommendations for online retailers?
[14:26] <DJones> Amazon?
[14:26] <Azelphur> popey, I'm winning at pool mining on a single card, http://btcmine.com/ru/user/toplist/ :D
[14:26] <hamitron> ebuyer?
[14:27] <Azelphur> dutchie, dabs/btshop do cheap monitors, I got my set from there
[14:27] <popey> dutchie: check the ebuyerspam for latest deals
[14:28] <oimon> what sort are you after dutchie
[14:28] <Azelphur> I called them up and tried to get a deal, "Hey I'm buying 6 monitors", I think the sales guys eyes light up :D
[14:28] <gord> dutchie, ebuyer + samsung
[14:28] <gord> <3 samsung monitors
[14:28] <dutchie> oimon: nothing in particular
[14:28] <dutchie> just want something to plug into this laptop to get moar pixelz
[14:28] <oimon> just gave away some lcd mons
[14:29] <oimon> gave my father in law an 18 inch NEC lcd that once cost £800
[14:29] <oimon> it's amazing how prices have come down
[14:30] <daubers> dutchie: Theres a company called added-dimension in reading who do ex demo stuff, normally quite good
[14:30] <oimon> my desktop pc sucks with dual screen, i have gone back to single screen at home
[14:31] <oimon> this seems to be the only way to disable disk cache in chromium: chromium-browser --disk-cache-size=N --disk-cache-dir=/dev/null
[14:31] <dutchie> http://www.dabs.com/products/lg-electronics-lg-w2363d-23--3d-lcd-monitor-77LV.html
[14:31] <dutchie> 3D!
[14:32]  * dutchie tries to work out how big 22" actually is
[14:34] <MartijnVdS> dutchie: about 55.88cm
[14:36] <oimon> http://uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/monitors/SAMQB2240 : less than 100 quid
[14:37] <oimon> don't you hate it when websites auto-play the flash content/video? bbc site just did it to me
[14:38] <MartijnVdS> Dell makes nice monitors, I've noticed
[14:38] <oimon> MartijnVdS: they seem to be reliable - we have had 100s here, rarely any issues
[14:39] <MartijnVdS> And lots of options in the menu, and lots of inputs available, and good picture quality
[14:39] <oimon> except the max brightness seems to go down after a few years
[14:39] <MartijnVdS> That happens in every brand
[14:39] <oimon> i guess it would
[14:41] <oimon> someone is giving a 17 inch dell lcd away on my local freegle
[14:43] <Oli``> Does anybody know of a good (eg applies security patches!), paid (though cheap, if possible) FTP service? A client of mine uses his existing hosting to host his website and a FTP dump for his clients to upload things to him. His hosting has had several break-ins so I'm taking over the website but don't want to host the FTP dump so we need another hosting company to take over that.
[14:43] <MartijnVdS> Don't use FTP, it's insecure
[14:44] <MartijnVdS> plain-text passwords etc.
[14:46] <AlanBell> FTP is ok for anonymous file downloading
[14:46] <AlanBell> but then so is http
[14:46] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: exactly
[14:47] <AlanBell> Oli``: really sftp is very well supported, just give out ssh accounts and set the directory permissions
[14:47] <kvarley> Oli``: You could create your own torrent and use encryption on the packets to send him files
[14:48] <AlanBell> they can upload with dreamweaver or whatever clients they want to use
[14:48] <MartijnVdS> webdav with SSL and digest auth
[14:48] <krimzon2> how would you lock down ssh so people can only use it to transfer files?
[14:48] <MartijnVdS> krimzon2: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/94
[14:48] <AlanBell> set the default shell
[14:49] <Oli``> AlanBell: We've iterated through that option before. He's okay with it but he already tried it with his clients and they're (to put it bluntly) idiots.
[14:49] <AlanBell> so don't give idiots pointy tools like insecure ftp
[14:49] <krimzon2> MartijnVdS: ahh, thanks
[14:50] <MartijnVdS> krimzon2: mind the comments though
[14:52] <Mez> Hmm... where do the kernel "audit" messages come from in syslog?
[14:52] <Mez> May 16 14:45:52 hera kernel: [8257450.822541] type=1503 audit(1305553552.247:130):  operation="open" pid=27083 parent=27082 profile="/usr/sbin/named" requested_mask="::r" denied_mask="::r" fsuid=106 ouid=0 name="/etc/ssl/openssl.cnf"
[14:52] <Mez> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9374 2009-01-07 18:43 /etc/ssl/openssl.cnf
[14:52] <Oli``> And kvarley: It's not me and him that are exchanging files, I just look after his website. It's his clients that need to transfer things to him and as I say, they're a big bunch of middle-managers who barely recognise a USB socket, far from a torrent or sftp client.
[14:53] <AlanBell> Oli``: what application are they using?
[14:53] <Oli``> Explorer.exe !
[14:53] <Oli``> (I imagine)
[14:54] <AlanBell> webdav then
[14:54] <kvarley> Oli``: Could you get some sort of page using https for them to upload files via
[14:55] <Mez> Never mind. Just worked it out
[15:11] <andylockran> guys, is there a simple method to run Firefox as the sole application on a minimal ubuntu install.  Fullscreen with no WM, preferably from an ubuntu-server iso installation?
[15:12] <ball> andylockran: It should be straightforward to run Firefox in what amounts to a kiosk mode, but from an Ubuntu Server disc? Perhaps not.
[15:13] <ball> On a conventional machine I'd just run it in place of the window manager, with -geometry set appropriately.
[15:14] <DJones> Apparently firefox uses (or at least used to require) an X11 display
[15:17] <DJones> andylockran: Maybe this might help http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man1/Xvfb.1.html http://blog.martin-lyness.com/archives/installing-xvfb-on-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala A bit old, but perhaps will help
[15:26] <andylockran> DJones: ball thanks.
[15:36] <DJones> Heh, a couple of lads that have just come back from 2 weeks in ibiza have just been into our shop, looked as white as chalk, somebody asked them did they get the sun tan oil confused with a bottle of bleach :)
[15:37] <hamitron> :))
[15:37] <popey> DJones: didnt know you ran a shop
[15:37] <DJones> popey: I'm in the accounts office, we've got 5 travel agents shops
[15:38] <popey> ahhh
[15:40] <DJones> Shops get some trade, but difficult times at the minute, main part of the business is luxury villas (Think up to $50,000 per week with butler, maid, pool boy, security guard, chef all provided)
[15:44] <popey> wow
[15:45] <ball> Heh... $50,000 would make a nice dent in my mortgage!
[15:45] <hamitron> DJones: you've sold it to me, now just let me save up.... ;/
[15:45] <DJones> As an example http://www.caribbeanluxurycollection.com/mustique/plantation_house/index.html $6,430 per night (thats not our website, but its one of the villas we sell)
[15:46] <popey> I'll take two!
[15:49] <DJones> One for you, one for the rest of the family?
[15:50] <popey> exactly!
[15:50] <popey> two separate continents please :)
[15:51] <DJones> That could be arranged, Caribbean for one, Europe for the other :)
[15:51] <DJones> (Only because we don't do either of the polar ice caps)
[15:56] <DJones> I've just had to take a cheque for £43,000 to the bank and that was only part payment for one person + family (including his (about) 15 adopted children)
[15:59] <popey> heh, yeah, you don't want a check like that sitting around :)
[16:00] <DJones> Very true
[16:00] <oimon> DJones: i don't think people who go to ibiza spend much time awake in the day night
[16:01] <DJones> Just been looking the guy who wrote it up on the internet, 5 kids of his own and has fostered over 80 in a 29 year period
[16:01] <oimon> s/night/time/
[16:03] <popey> o_O
[16:12] <oimon> any mention of btrfs at UDS?
[16:14] <oimon> oh: http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/16/eldar-murtazin-microsoft-will-enter-negotiations-to-buy-nokias/
[16:16] <DJones> I didn't know this "Nokia once used to manufacture galoshes and tires"
[16:17] <bigcalm> https://twitter.com/#!/DrPinball/status/70119002344660992
[16:17] <ali1234> ha
[16:17] <ali1234> i didn't believe it until that tweet
[16:20] <davmor2> hello everyone again bloody virgin
[16:21] <oimon> bigcalm: maybe it was as a result of the guardian article : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/may/16/ballmer-microsoft-skype
[16:21] <ball> davmor2: I read that in a Vampire voice, before I realised that they're a cable company back home.
[16:22] <bigcalm> Hehe
[16:22] <davmor2> haha
[16:22] <bigcalm> davmor2: what's wrong with VM today?
[16:23] <davmor2> bigcalm: just been offline since 12:45
[16:23] <bigcalm> Poop
[16:23] <davmor2> bigcalm: didn't you notice that czajkowski wasn't trying to kill me :D
[16:23] <DJones> davmor2: I thought she'd succeeded :)
[16:23] <bigcalm> davmor2: VM have done that to me in the past as well. Once I'm upgraded to 30mb on Wednesday I expect similar outages ;)
[16:24] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'm still on 20meg
[16:24] <oimon> VM used the cable london infrastructure for my area = fail
[16:24]  * czajkowski smacks davmor2 
[16:24] <czajkowski> there welcome back
[16:25] <czajkowski> dont feel left out
[16:25] <oimon> some areas are pretty bad when it comes to quality for VM broadband
[16:25] <bigcalm> davmor2: for why?
[16:29] <oimon> https://twitter.com/eldarmurtazin/status/70060475999715328
[16:29] <ball> OH! My coffee!
[16:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: till they can sort out why I'm getting 2 drops from every 5 pings I'm not interested in being able to go faster plus with all the hassle I've had I think they should throw me a 30meg anyway :)
[16:30] <bigcalm> :)
[16:31]  * ball has 12 Mbits/sec for the first year, then I have to pay US$ 10/month extra for 1 Mbit/sec service
[16:32] <DJones> I see firefox 3.5 is going the way of IE6, warning users its out of date & being forcinbly upgraded if auto update is on
[16:32] <bigcalm> Good
[16:32] <oimon> davmor2: 2 drops from every 5 pings...hmm where have i heard that one before? oh yes, it was when i had VM
[16:33] <oimon> they told me it was due to my antivirus
[16:33] <bigcalm> VM provide AV
[16:33] <oimon> i don't use AV
[16:34] <DJones> oimon: Can I guess at the next line, "Ah well, its because you don't have AV then"
[16:34] <oimon> and none of my machines were plugged in - i just had ping enabled on the router
[16:34] <oimon> the line was rotten but they didn't care - the only way to "fix" it was to change ISP
[16:34] <davmor2> oimon: they told me that till I told them I didn't have any then they put me through to tech who told me what the actual issue was and gave me £20 a month of my money back for the inconvenience
[16:34] <oimon> took months of stress and phone calls - whichthey charged me for , even though it was their issue
[16:35] <oimon> davmor2: you must have got an english call centre then
[16:35] <davmor2> oimon: yeap with the direct call number
[16:35] <oimon> i could only call in the evenings, and you get pushed over to indian CC
[16:36] <oimon> VM are top of my hate list
[16:36] <oimon> they also stole money from me
[16:36] <davmor2> I'm hoping that the outage was them fixing it
[16:36] <oimon> you can only hope/dream
[16:37] <oimon> an engineer came and said i could never have digital tv on my line cos the signal was so poor (i had analogue cable at the time which worked fine)
[16:40] <DJones> Here's one for all the keyboard hackers unhappy with the normal qwerty style http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/8/view/14607/keyless-lifebook-by-laura-lahti-fujitsu-design-award-2011-shortlisted-entry.html
[17:06] <ali1234> "The Round Ducting Hose is a flexible round ducting hose."
[17:06] <ali1234> thanks, captain obvious
[17:10]  * ball snorts with laughter
[17:32] <shauno> Silly question; does 217.0 jump out at anyone as being a significant value?
[17:32] <seeker> Any context?
[17:33] <shauno> it's temperature (in C)
[17:33] <popey> not to me
[17:34] <shauno> and very obviously an insane value (it should be somewhere slightly warmer than room temp, but well below PC temp).  so trying to figure out if the value itself is numerical significant
[17:35] <seeker> shauno: Are you calculating something?
[17:36] <shauno> trying to fault-find a piece of equipment that's telling lies
[17:36] <seeker> Anything more specific
[17:37]  * seeker is getting close to stopping his attempts to get blood out of a stone
[17:38] <danfish> afternoon all
[17:38] <shauno> well, that's just it.  something that should be room temp-ish is telling us it's 217C.
[17:38] <brobostigon> afternoonings danfish :)
[17:38] <shauno> was just curious if it rang any bells as being a 'magic number'
[17:38] <danfish> shauno: 217C is the temp some solder melts
[17:38] <seeker> What is the "something"?
[17:38] <danfish> brobostigon: o/
[17:39] <shauno> oh, something's a battery
[17:40] <shauno> and it's not genuinely 217C.  we did check :)
[17:41] <brobostigon> danfish: o/
[17:42] <danfish> it's only Monday and 1740 and I've already has enough of this (working) week :(
[17:43] <bigcalm> 20 mins to go!
[17:44]  * ball doesn't want to go to work today.
[17:46] <ormiret> shauno: that coems out to 490K which is suspiciously close to 5V in a 10mV/K sensor, so might be a short where the electronics is expecting a LM35 (or similar) temp sensor.
[17:47] <shauno> that doesn't sound far off.  I've been trying to find out what the raw value from the firmware comes out as, but no luck
[18:04] <rrrachel> grr arg, unity2d crashes really hard, probably because of gwibber
[18:05] <rrrachel> really hard as in, had to ssh in from elsewhere and reboot. actually thinking about it, it was probably nouveau that crashed hard :-(
[19:11] <Myrtti> awww
[19:11] <Myrtti> I want a car
[19:11] <Myrtti> someone is selling a Nissan Figaro :-/
[19:14] <Myrtti> this is a new side of me, I don't know how to drive and I know how stupid it is to fall in love into something highly technical based on looks only
[19:14] <Myrtti> but it looks such a pretty car :-D
[19:22] <gord> got caught out by ubuntu asking me things on boot, when its a server so no monitor.. again
[19:22] <gord> seriously, can we just get ssh up before we hang on "press x to continue"...
[19:24] <davmor2> gord: no suffer
[19:26] <popey> gord: yeah, that annoys me too
[19:30] <gord> =\ lovefilm is recommending "confessions of a shopaholic" to me
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> gord: it KNOWS
[19:35] <shauno> oh man .. importing a 800Mb model into blender .. suddenly my laptop doesn't feel so fast
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> You need more RAM :)(
[19:36] <shauno> I know :/  it's on my shopping list!
[19:36] <shauno> waiting until I can pick up an sdd too, so I only have to open it once :)
[19:52] <Myrtti> aw :-( as if I weren't depressed enough about the state of Free and Open Source Software, FSF does a good job in 'pissing in their own breakfast cereal'
[19:53] <ali1234> i'm depressed about the state of FOSS too
[19:53] <AlanBell> Myrtti: is that something new?
[19:53] <ali1234> but only because of how many people only seem to care about market share
[19:54] <Myrtti> AlanBell: I've been hoping they'd get their head out of the sandpile and see the world around them, but I guess it's hoping too much
[19:54] <gord> no one pays attention to the fsf
[19:54]  * AlanBell finds it
[19:55] <gord> its like a really angry loud fly hitting its head against a window in your house, its mildly annoying but doesn't do any damage
[19:55] <peter343241_> Does anyone have a link for a decent guide to recording streaming video from a website? I've tried using screen capping software Instanbul and Desktop recorder, but the video is *very* choppy.
[19:56] <davmor2> gord: is there something you need to tell us about your spending habits?
[19:56] <davmor2> gord: that or your naff taste in films?
[19:57] <ali1234> when i hear people complaining about the FSF this is what it sounds like to me "wah wah shut up and give me free stuff wah wah"
[19:58] <davmor2> peter343241_: that is a tool to record your desktop not record streamed video
[20:00] <Myrtti> ali1234: free stuff? erm.
[20:00] <Myrtti> no.
[20:01] <peter343241_> davmor2: Yes...
[20:01] <gord> ali1234, ... really no
[20:01] <popey> peter343241_: downloadthemall
[20:01] <popey> firefox extension
[20:01] <Myrtti> ali1234: I complain about FSF because I have serious issues with their agenda and how they manifest it
[20:02] <Myrtti> mainly how they manifest it
[20:02] <gord> they are currently trying to do what, send nintendo a bunch of bricks? geez
[20:03] <Myrtti> indeed >___<
[20:03] <gord> quick guys! lets mildly annoy some big company! that'll work
[20:03] <ali1234> and now people are rewtweeting it like crazy. mission acomplished
[20:04] <Myrtti> well, have to give them some applause on not doing their protest in a way that actually harms the customers
[20:04] <Myrtti> like they did last time.
[20:05] <ali1234> i guess we should all just give up
[20:06] <ali1234> \o/ apathy
[20:06] <ali1234> let's not do anything guys
[20:06]  * hamitron is good at that
[20:06] <ali1234> we should all just do whatever big business tells us
[20:06] <ali1234> if they say they own everything we create with their gadgets then that's ok by me
[20:06] <hamitron> meh
[20:07] <ali1234> as long as it brings increased market share
[20:07] <ali1234> because that's the only thing that matters right? having 200 million users?
[20:07] <Myrtti> ali1234: I fail to see how sending bricks to Nintendo or booking slots at Apple GeniousBar or whatever to ask the helpdesk guys why iTunes uses DRM is helpful?
[20:07] <ali1234> anything that anyone does which does not further this goal HURTS FREE SOFTWARE
[20:08] <Myrtti> former is pointless, latter is downright harmful
[20:08] <gord> ... you seem to be trying to make some sort of point ali1234, but its hazy and makes little sense
[20:09] <ali1234> the point is quite simple
[20:09] <ali1234> the FSF is not the marketing wing of free software
[20:09] <Myrtti> directing our efforts to smear big corporations is exactly what we should do instead of trying to make our own stuff rock and surpass the big corporation stuff with quality
[20:09] <Myrtti> not
[20:10] <Myrtti> ali1234: sadly it is somewhat vocal and visible to outsiders, who think FLOSS people are bearded propellerheads
[20:10] <ali1234> right right
[20:11] <ali1234> i like how you think that people who don't use free software are outsiders, but yet you also are deliberately distancing yourself from the propellerheads too
[20:12] <ali1234> so presumably there is a third group that you belong to?
[20:12]  * hamitron just sees the FSF as a group of nutters that does have a few uses
[20:12] <ali1234> the group that doesn't care about the ideals of free software and only wants their team to be the popular team?
[20:12] <hamitron> yeh
[20:13] <hamitron> it is all about the software! not about ideals
[20:13] <hamitron> :)
[20:13] <Myrtti> ali1234: I'm all in for the ideals of open source, but I've got a good streak of pragmatism
[20:13] <gord> could it be that everyones different, has their own thoughts and opinions, we share similar goals and don't want to be put into neat buckets with the crazier side of our community?
[20:14] <hamitron> what is ideal anyway?
[20:14] <hamitron> ;/
[20:16] <Myrtti> my pragmatism tells me that MS, Sony and Nintendo have been making an unwitting great contribution to FLOSS desktop paradigm with their consoles and enabling enjoyment of good games without PC with Windows
[20:17] <ali1234> the biggest contribution sony made was when they demonstrated that anything you buy from them can be taken away at any time
[20:17] <Myrtti> and while I understand the basic idea why DRM is bad, I have no problems with most DRM'd content (I pay for Spotify, DRM'd books from Waterstones etc)
[20:17] <hamitron> ali1234: that I agree with
[20:17] <hamitron> a very big lesson for anyone wanting freedom of choice
[20:18]  * hamitron likes DRM when it doesn't "get in the way"
[20:18] <Myrtti> ugh, I have now OD'd on chocolate
[20:18] <hamitron> :D
[20:19] <Myrtti> damned Green&Blacks dark chocolate easter egg
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: I don't _like_ it, ever. I don't _mind_ it if it doesn't get in the way :)
[20:19] <gord> y'know those people who eat half a chocolate easter egg then leave the rest for later?... they are magic wizards or something
[20:19] <hamitron> MartijnVdS: I'd like it more if it stopped people stealing stuff, getting for free what I have legally paid for
[20:20] <Myrtti> if I see chocolate ever again (or for, like, a week) I'll vomit
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> 0118 999 881 999 119 725 ...... 3
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ^
[20:20] <gord> if you want to send your excess chocolate my way, i would be glad to dispose of it for you
[20:21]  * DJones points Myrtti at http://www.firebox.com/product/2854/Bacon-Chocolate and hopes you aren't vegetarian :)
[20:21] <Myrtti> gord: http://www.chocolate-easter-eggs.co.uk/green-blacks-organic-thick-shelled-dark-chocolate-cherry-ginger-egg *urp*
[20:21] <Myrtti> *barf*
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> Yarp?
[20:21] <hamitron> glass of milk ftw
[20:21] <Myrtti> I've got most of the egg and half of the bars left
[20:22] <gord> oh dark chocolate? you gotta be careful of that, you can't eat too much
[20:23] <Myrtti> benefits of dark chocolate: 1) gets rid of chocolate graving faster 2) isn't ickly sweet 3) isn't ickly fatty 4) nobody else likes it, so I get to eat it all
[20:23] <Myrtti> downsides: because of 1) - OD on chocolate easily
[20:24]  * brobostigon can only have dark dairy free chocolate due to his allergies, :)
[20:24] <gord> my trick is that i let dark chocolate melt on my tongue, stops you eating too fast
[20:24] <hamitron> you can OD on it?
[20:24] <hamitron> o.O
[20:25] <DJones> gord: That sounds like too much patience,  If you can do that with chocolate, can you eat a fruit pastille without chewing as well
[20:25] <phonex01> hello guys im trying to login to my account on ubuntu netbook but when i write the password and hit enter and im sure the password is right i see blank screen and then ubuntu ask me to enter password again and i see on the right top an error message said that there is omething wrong with GNOME configurations
[20:26] <shauno> this has to be the most mind-boggling UI I've ever used
[20:27] <brobostigon> phonex01: ok, thats sounds like a problem with gnome3's gnome-session, do you have the gnome3-teams ppa ?
[20:27] <phonex01> what is the gnome3-teams ppa ??
[20:28] <brobostigon> ok, you dont have it then, otherwise you would recognise it.
[20:28] <phonex01> how can i fix that ???
[20:28] <phonex01> can i just somehow reset gnome configurations ???
[20:28] <brobostigon> phonex01: it isnt the issue, i mentioned, so i dont know,sorry.
[20:29] <phonex01> thank you anyway
[20:29] <brobostigon> phonex01: bepatient, there are alot of clever people aound here, :)
[20:29] <phonex01> i see
[20:29] <DJones> phonex01: I would be tempted to log in as root, create a new user and then log in with that to see if its a problem with your user configuration or with the system itself, if it doesn't happen with the new user, its a problem with your user configuration
[20:30] <Myrtti> log in as root....
[20:30] <phonex01> how can i login as root ???
[20:30] <phonex01> how can i do that ?
[20:30] <DJones> Myrtti: Well, recovery mode would be a better description I guess
[20:31] <phonex01> i think you press something like F1 or something like that so you will have a terminal ...
[20:31] <phonex01> or it is Ctr+1 ??
[20:31] <phonex01> how can i access the terminal ???
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> ctrl+alt+f1 ?
[20:32] <phonex01> oh ok
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> or just open a terminal window in X?
[20:32] <phonex01> then my problem is solved
[20:32] <phonex01> ya i know this part
[20:32] <phonex01> i will create new user
[20:33] <DJones> phonex01: Don't do anything logged in like that though
[20:33] <phonex01> oh ok everything is ok now
[20:34] <phonex01> i think it was a problem with the user configurations
[20:34] <phonex01> thank you all
[20:35] <DJones> I wonder whether this guy is a FSF advocate? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13407712
[20:35] <popey> He looks too happy
[20:35] <DJones> (After the mention of beards in scrollback)
[20:36] <popey> He doesn't appear to be flagilating himself with birch trees or wearing a hair shirt.
[20:36] <DJones> ewwww A hair shirt?
[20:36] <mgdm> popey: he could probably weave himself one without too much trouble, though
[20:37] <popey> hah
[20:38] <popey> i have an urge to play a game that isnt minecraft
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: try spacechem
[20:39] <popey> not in software center
[20:39] <popey> darwinia is though!
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: debs are available - http://www.spacechemthegame.com/
[20:39] <popey> why is software centre giving me US prices
[20:39] <ali1234> because you called it software center
[20:40] <popey> i can pay in USD or EUR only
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> Good, none of this GBP nonsense
[20:40] <popey> golly, there's "loads" of payware games in USC now
[20:41] <gord> nice huh :)
[20:41] <gord> i never get to see whats in there because i'm perpetually on the development release :(
[20:41] <popey> kinda surprised
[20:41] <gord> really? i mean there are a lot of pay for linux games, more visibility is very attractive
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> yay.. "Recommended for you: 6 PDF readers"
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> *sigh
[20:42] <ali1234> when i click on "for purchase" i only see 15 items... and only 10 are games
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> "Family Farm"? WTF?
[20:42] <popey> I was expecting 1 or 2
[20:42] <popey> hence "loads" in quotes
[20:42] <popey> :)
[20:42] <ali1234> it's not exactly steam is it
[20:42] <gord> i sat down to do something, i even opened the system menu (maverick)... what was it
[20:42] <popey> heh
[20:43] <gord> do you not remember steam? steam was basically 10 games for years
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> gord: it got better.
[20:43] <ali1234> family farm looks tempting
[20:43] <gord> it did, i'd say the ubuntu software centre is doing great
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> popey: If you buy that SpaceChem game, you get Mac, Windows and Linux versions, AND a code to activate it on steam :)
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> popey: (Linux version comes as an i386 deb + script to convert to amd64 deb -- it's all mono)
[20:45] <DJones> Panorama on BBC is quite interesting, tracking electrical waste (tv's monitors etc) after they've been taken to the dump
[20:46] <gord> does it not just stay at the dump?
[20:46] <DJones> Sorry, that was me, should have said council tip etc
[20:48] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNGUgfHu7pU
[20:48] <DJones> irreprably broken crt tv was taken to the local council tip with a tracker fitted, instead of being scrapped, its ended up in Ghana for sale
[20:48] <ali1234> ^ it's between this and world of goo for best game on software centre
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: a little Sims-ish?
[20:49] <ali1234> it's like sims except they're on a farm instead of living horribly unfulfilling consumer lifestyles, yes
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> not really my kind of game, bit it looks really polished
[20:52] <popey> well, i just installed a missle command clone
[20:52] <popey> EMP
[20:52] <popey> really good fun
[20:52] <popey> very simple, but got my heart going :)
[20:52] <ali1234> i'm only looking at the ones for purchase not the free stuff
[20:53] <popey> ooo my kids would love he farm one
[20:54] <DJones> 11.10 sounds like its got a few interesting changes http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/05/6-important-changes-in-next-ubuntu-1110.html
[20:54] <DJones> Hadn't read any of that before
[20:55] <ali1234> "large icons" lol wat
[20:55] <ali1234> as if they are not big enough already
[20:55] <DJones> ali1234: I thought that as well
[20:56] <exobuzz> "No More Classic Gnome Desktop, Unity 2D Will Switch from Metacity to Compiz" hardly a feature
[20:56] <exobuzz> :
[20:56] <exobuzz> :)
[20:56] <exobuzz> what harm is there in keeping the classic desktop. considering by the time natty comes out, there will still be a zillion gnome applets that wont work with it
[20:56] <exobuzz> sorry not natty i mean natty+1.. ocelot
[20:56] <ali1234> well the classic desktop need gnome 2
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> ocelot won't come with classic, will it?
[20:58] <exobuzz> i thought metacity would be ported to gtk3 etc ?
[20:58] <ali1234> yeah but not the panel
[20:58] <ali1234> gnome 3 already has it's own panel, and it doesn't support 2.x applets
[20:58] <gord> it will prolly have a session you can install
[20:58] <ali1234> and i'm not talking about gnome-shell
[20:58] <exobuzz> "Applications will not require changes to work in GNOME 3" according to gnome 3 faq
[20:59] <ali1234> applications != applets
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> appletcations
[20:59] <gord> gnome3 dropped bonobo, so no applets. sorry. they are going away forever
[20:59] <gord> hopefully the ones most people used are getting replaced with indicators
[20:59] <exobuzz> which wont matter "if" they get updated.. well i hate the desktop reinvention all the time.. it was never broken for me.
[21:00] <exobuzz> i just dont like the unity
[21:00] <ali1234> so considering that indicators can;t do graphics
[21:00] <exobuzz> i guess ill go kde
[21:00] <ali1234> how you going to give me back my cpu usage monitor?
[21:00] <ali1234> i need that to tell when crappy software has crashed using 100% CPU
[21:00] <gord> pretty sure my weather indicator does "graphics"
[21:00] <ali1234> since it's hard to spot on a quad core until 4 things do it
[21:00] <ali1234> then your whole machine locks up
[21:01] <ali1234> it does an icon...
[21:02] <exobuzz> ubuntu dont ever listen to what the users want. yeh i know i complain but .. ive had to maintain my own mdadm packages, patches against gnome power manager, patches against autofs5. all down to ubuntu breaking stuff.
[21:02] <gord> you didn't contribute those patches back?
[21:02] <exobuzz> of course i did. they are sat ignored on launchpad along with all the other patches
[21:02] <exobuzz> the gnome power manager one is technically upstream. its sat uignored on gnome bugtracker
[21:03] <gord> there are lots of bugs and few maintainers, "ubuntu" is a community, join it. get involved with discussion, bring attention to your patches and bugs, talk to people, because thats what ubuntu really is, people
[21:04] <exobuzz> mdadm is partly fixed now. on natty. but ubuntu has tons of raid issues
[21:04] <exobuzz> i dont agree, and i think ubuntu dont listen to criticism either.. remember the window icon discussion
[21:04] <exobuzz> most people didnt want that
[21:04] <mgdm> anyone seen any funny artifacts being drawn in metacity in the 'classic' desktop in natty?
[21:04] <popey> i disagree exobuzz
[21:04] <gord> "ubuntu"?
[21:04] <ali1234> yes, me, all the time, a lot
[21:04] <popey> "most" people don't give a toss
[21:04] <ali1234> mgdm: ^
[21:04] <mgdm> it's like the frames around windows don't get drawn over when switcing windows
[21:05] <ali1234> i guess classic is basically unmaintained now
[21:05] <exobuzz> popey, not according to a forum poll back then
[21:05] <popey> exobuzz: not representative
[21:05] <mgdm> ali1234: Hmmm. it goes away when I turn on the compositing manager, but that puts a delay in alt-tab
[21:05] <exobuzz> well. sure.. nice get out clause ;-)
[21:05] <popey> a self selecting poll of techies on the forums
[21:05] <popey> my wife manages just fine switching between Ubuntu OSX and Windows
[21:05] <gord> the only people contributing to such a poll are people that actually care
[21:05] <popey> she doesnt care where the buttons are
[21:05] <mgdm> anyone using online polls for anything significant are basically insane
[21:05] <exobuzz> you could say that about everything canonical devs decide too
[21:06] <ali1234> "most people don't care" is not a good reason to change it, sorry
[21:06] <mgdm> they're just an amusing distraction
[21:06] <popey> i didnt say it was
[21:06] <popey> merely countering the argument that most peopld do
[21:06] <popey> *people
[21:06] <ali1234> it's true that most people who have an opinion on the subject would prefer them to stay in the old location
[21:07] <Myrtti> I honestly don't know what I'll do with my sister's ubuntu machine once ocelot comes
[21:07] <exobuzz> i dont like unity. im not alone. people like me will leave ubuntu if they force the issue
[21:07] <exobuzz> simple really
[21:08] <Myrtti> I'll probably move her over to xubuntu
[21:08] <hamitron> exobuzz: gnobuntu
[21:08] <hamitron> ;)
[21:08] <exobuzz> hehe
[21:09] <brobostigon> as long as ican run an up to date, gnome3/gnome-shell, i will be happy.debian, ubuntu or otherwise. but preferebly debian based.
[21:09] <ali1234> good luck with that
[21:09] <exobuzz> i do hope unity does try to look at the screen resolution for the icon sizes though in the next release .. i know i pasted this before but http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity2.png - annoying
[21:09] <ali1234> gnome-shell is basically fedora's baby
[21:09] <brobostigon> ali1234: we have the gnome3-teams ppa for natty, that is a good start,
[21:09] <hamitron> what will debian be using?
[21:09] <exobuzz> if linuxmint put more into their debian based distro with up to date xorg etc, it could be excellent
[21:10] <gord> exobuzz, you can change the icon size
[21:10] <ali1234> well knowing debian they'll be on gnome 2.x for the next 6 years
[21:10] <exobuzz> gord. how ?
[21:10] <gord> ccsm
[21:10] <exobuzz> gord, the size of the main home icons ?
[21:10] <gord> where all the config options are
[21:10] <gord> i run 32pixels myself
[21:10] <exobuzz> im not referring to the left hand side icons
[21:10] <shauno> ali1234: I think atm, most would consider that a selling point
[21:10] <ali1234> gord: he means the dash icons not the launcher icons
[21:10] <brobostigon> hamitron: i fully expect, debian unstyable/sid to be using gnome3, once it has been tested,
[21:10] <ali1234> shauno: indeed
[21:10] <exobuzz> gord, did you look at the screenshot ?
[21:11] <hamitron> would it really be that hard to have a metapackage to install Gnome based ubuntu?
[21:11] <hamitron> if enough want it
[21:11] <ali1234> hamitron: not really no and there will be one in universe probably
[21:11] <brobostigon> hamitron: we do, gnome3 is there partly in the repos.
[21:11] <exobuzz> on and an hd screen. you dont want a massive screen full of icons to launch apps. give me back a menu launcher
[21:11] <hamitron> so we all have the choice anyway :/
[21:11] <exobuzz> s/you/i
[21:11] <brobostigon> hamitron: yes.
[21:12] <exobuzz> and ccsm is completely useless on small screens also btw.
[21:12] <exobuzz> users should be able to change icon size of the launcher without having to load that monster
[21:13] <ali1234> the new control centre thing looks quite similar to ccsm, i imagine it's equally bad on small screens
[21:13] <hamitron> ali1234: what sorta desktop do you want personally?
[21:14] <ali1234> hamitron: i don't care as long as it has button on the right and no global menu and no dock
[21:14] <ali1234> anything else is fine
[21:14] <ali1234> oh yeah and works properly on dual head
[21:14] <ali1234> as long as it meets those requirements i'll pick the one with the nicest theme
[21:14] <exobuzz> gord, no answer to how to change the main dash icons then ? or you cant ? :)
[21:14] <gord> exobuzz, you can't
[21:14] <hamitron> so xfce?
[21:14] <gord> its a bug
[21:14] <exobuzz> 8 useless icons in the middle of the screen. nice design
[21:14] <ali1234> xfce fails miserably at dual head
[21:15] <gord> they are not useless
[21:15] <exobuzz> ok. sorry. they are useless for me
[21:15] <exobuzz> maybe others like em
[21:15] <ali1234> i've never clicked on any of those 8 yet in two weeks
[21:15] <ali1234> or however long it's been
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> I always type
[21:15] <hamitron> what is dual head?
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> in that box
[21:15] <hamitron> :|
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> hamitron: two screens
[21:16] <ali1234> i have banshee and firefox pinned... the others i don't know why i would ever want to click on them
[21:16] <hamitron> so why doesn't xfce work on that?
[21:16] <ali1234> hamitron: i dunno, it just doesn't
[21:16] <ali1234> try it :/
[21:16] <exobuzz> i appreciate your efforts, and i dont want to sound unappreciative. i hope unity can work in the future. just right now, it aint there yet for me
[21:16] <ali1234> their monitor configuration tool just doesn't seem to even do anything
[21:16] <ali1234> and when you have panels on more than one display it all goes a bit weird
[21:17] <ali1234> plus you are only allowed to have 1 indicator under xfce
[21:17] <ali1234> you can't have one on each screen. fail
[21:17]  * hamitron is sorta glad he is tight with money and has 1 display
[21:17] <hamitron> ;)
[21:17] <hamitron> it does sound messed
[21:18] <exobuzz> gord, speaking of bugs, this one is marked for "updates". considering the impact of this bug, how long can we wait for a downgraded package? surely a simple thing ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/762806 :)
[21:18] <ali1234> so back to unity... "check email" doesn't work for me... it just loads up evolution.. i don't use evolution
[21:18] <ali1234> and i don't have any photos to view
[21:18] <gord> have to run badblocks on a drive of mine before rescuing the data. 1% every three minutes thirty seconds... gonna take a while
[21:18] <ali1234> of the other 4, three of them take you to unity's excuse for a menu
[21:19] <gord> exobuzz, i have no idea about control centre
[21:19] <exobuzz> if unity was "finished" and felt finished, then maybe id feel differently about removal of classic desktop.. i also think ubuntu should release late if things are not ready
[21:19] <gord> ali1234, change your default mail application
[21:19] <exobuzz> right now natty is useless for any disabled people that need mouse accessibility
[21:19] <ali1234> and find files... is exactly the same as just typing in the search box that is already visible
[21:19] <ali1234> gord: i use firefox to check my emails, there's *already* an icon for it
[21:20] <ali1234> i would just have firefox listed twice
[21:20] <ali1234> = pointless
[21:20] <brobostigon> exobuzz: gnome3 on natty, has keyboard mouse control, for example.
[21:20] <exobuzz> ali1234, i guess customisation of those icons would sort things a bit.i still would like a nice launcher menu instead though
[21:21] <ali1234> there's an option to just show the search bar right? that's what i should use
[21:21] <ali1234> the icons would be pointless no matter what they do because you can pin anything you want
[21:21] <DJones> Oooh, Gingerbread update on desire hd available for download
[21:22] <brobostigon> DJones: :)
[21:23] <exobuzz> the jolios layout is better than unity on smaller screens as was the old ubuntnu netbook remix interface imho
[21:23] <exobuzz> (http://www.eteanga.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ubuntu-netbook-remix-560x480.png)
[21:24] <ali1234> no
[21:24] <ali1234> that was always bad
[21:24] <exobuzz> on the joggler it was easier to use
[21:24] <ali1234> maybe
[21:24] <exobuzz> as an example of a smaller touchscreen device
[21:24] <ali1234> but that would be several hundred times worse on desktop
[21:25] <exobuzz> i agree
[21:25] <exobuzz> but then i dont think you can or should have the same gui on both
[21:25] <exobuzz> thats a crazy idea.
[21:25] <exobuzz> :)
[21:25] <ali1234> yeah you're probably right
[21:25] <exobuzz> you will end up with something like. erm unity. hehe
[21:25] <ali1234> yeah but how do you resolve that with the desire to have a marketable image for the OS?
[21:26] <exobuzz> ask the user? :)
[21:26] <exobuzz> during install
[21:26] <ali1234> no
[21:26] <ali1234> that's no good
[21:26] <ali1234> you need for people to see mr trendy guy in the coffe shop using ubuntu and be able to immediately recognise what it is
[21:26] <ali1234> in order to drive peer marketing and desirability of the OS
[21:26] <ali1234> this is the only way to achieve 200 million users
[21:27] <ali1234> and that's obviously the most important thing
[21:27] <exobuzz> he is not using ubuntu. hes using a mac hence he doesnt have a clue how to use his computer like most mac users ;-)
[21:27] <exobuzz> or an ipad
[21:27] <exobuzz> and hes not trendy he jsut thinks he is
[21:27] <ali1234> actually he'll probably be using ubuntu on a mac
[21:27] <ali1234> because os x is "way too mainstream"
[21:28] <ali1234> this is the kind of person unity is aimed at
[21:28] <brobostigon> or like some people i have seen, running windows on a mac,
[21:28] <exobuzz> brobostigon, to play some games? :)
[21:28] <ali1234> offering the user a choice of UI is in direct opposition to this goal, especially if the user chooses some ugly old OS like windows or gnome 2.x
[21:29] <ali1234> it doesn't matter if they prefer it
[21:29] <exobuzz> hehe
[21:29] <ali1234> it won't sell ubuntu if people can't recognise it
[21:29] <brobostigon> exobuzz: it silly, bsd/nextstep/darwin, is auchbetter system than windows, therefore it is totally illogical.
[21:31] <ali1234> the shift is quite large
[21:31] <ali1234> the idea seems to be to go after people who don't know what they want, because they are easiest to satisfy
[21:56] <shauno> I'm not sure subtitles are compatible with zombie movies :/
[22:51] <sandfly> i may have missed previous discussions but, is every one happy with the unity desktop?
[22:52] <brobostigon> unity isnt bad, but i prefer gnome-shell personally.
[22:53] <sandfly> ok so its not just me
[22:53] <emorris> I severely dislike it
[22:53] <emorris> it's annoying and fiddly
[22:54] <sandfly> i am feeling more normal by the minute
[22:55] <sandfly> have any one tried switching back
[22:55] <brobostigon> sandfly: what do you mean?
[22:57] <sandfly> their is a how to on switching the unity desktop to gnome
[22:57] <brobostigon> gnome2 or gnome3 ?
[22:58] <sandfly> http://www.geekgumbo.com/2011/05/04/switching-the-unity-desktop-to-the-gnome-desktop/
[22:58] <sandfly> link
[22:58] <sandfly> 3 most likely
[22:59] <sandfly> at a guess
[22:59] <brobostigon> sandfly: theoption is describes their, in simplythe gdm option, for gnome2.
[22:59] <sandfly> ok
[23:01] <sandfly> i was just wandering if any one have tried it. i may have to gave it a go
[23:01] <sandfly> unity is doing my heau in
[23:01] <ali1234> it doesn't work very well
[23:01] <brobostigon> yes, in theory, i have three  options, gnome2, gnome3/gnome-shell and unity.
[23:02] <ali1234> classic is now extremely buggy
[23:02] <ali1234> graphical glitches all over the place
[23:02] <ali1234> i keep getting artifacts of global menu
[23:02] <ali1234> earlier i had the work "file" appear on the top panel. couldn't click on it or anything
[23:02] <hamitron> :/
[23:03] <brobostigon> ali1234: gnome3/gnome-shell is much less  buggy,and more consistant, in comparison.
[23:03] <ali1234> but gnome-shell is a complete mess
[23:03] <sandfly> on my net book its fine but my desktop its annoying
[23:03] <ali1234> even if it has no bugs, i don't want to use it
[23:03] <hamitron> why no use 10.04 for now?
[23:04] <hamitron> not*
[23:04] <brobostigon> ali1234: other than me using haiku, atm, gnome-shell fits my workflow the best.
[23:04] <ali1234> what is your workflow?
[23:04] <sandfly> that would have to be the way for now 10.04
[23:04] <brobostigon> ali1234: ok,vnc to my machine, and watch me.
[23:05] <ali1234> i recommend 10.10 over 10.04 btw
[23:05] <hamitron> 10.04 is supported for longer
[23:05] <hamitron> ;)
[23:05] <ali1234> i suspect that by the time 10.10 is no longer supported, something will have been worked out
[23:05] <hamitron> I hope so!
[23:05] <hamitron> haha
[23:06] <ali1234> you know that not all of LTS is supported for 5 years right?
[23:06] <hamitron> 3 years
[23:06] <ali1234> core desktop only gets 3 years, many packages don't even get that
[23:06] <brobostigon> server and desktop, lts have different support periods.
[23:06] <ali1234> brobostigon: i just want to know what programs you use typically
[23:07] <sandfly> me to
[23:07] <sandfly> or its looking like mint
[23:07] <hamitron> if apps on the LTS are not supported, I should maybe use CentOS :/
[23:07] <brobostigon> ali1234: gnome-terminal + byobu + irssi + bitlbee, chromium, empathy/telepathy, gwibber, and a few other things, like vlc, and libreoffice.
[23:08] <ali1234> so basically you have given up on window management then?
[23:09] <brobostigon> ali1234: i would rather have good workspace manegement, and let the window managegment up to the workspace manager.
[23:09] <ali1234> except when you are using screen
[23:09] <brobostigon> yes.
[23:10] <hamitron> are you happy with gnome2 ali1234 ?
[23:10] <hamitron> from 10.10
[23:10] <ali1234> not really no
[23:10] <hamitron> :D
[23:10] <ali1234> but it's the most reliable desktop i know of
[23:10] <dutchie> brobostigon: empathy and bitlbee? does one not do the job of the other?
[23:10] <hamitron> you are voicing how I feel atm, with computer OSes in general
[23:11] <brobostigon> dutchie: i use bitlbee fairly rarely now, as empathy has improved a huge amount,
[23:12] <brobostigon> good night, sleep well.
[23:15] <ali1234> thing is, most of the bad things about unity can be turned off
[23:15] <ali1234> that it's almost usable, apart from the bugs and the unpredictable behaviour of the launcher
[23:16] <AlanBell> I would like it to be moveable to the top, bottom or right of the screen
[23:17] <ali1234> that won't help at all
[23:17] <ali1234> i would like it to not interfere with fullscreen applications and then refuse to unhide itself at random
[23:18] <AlanBell> that too
[23:18] <ali1234> i would like it not to switch me to a random terminal out of the 10 i have open
[23:18] <ali1234> i would like it to have a workable way to select the window i want if i have several open
[23:18] <reaper4334> yeah, it's the lack of customisable panels that gets me
[23:18] <reaper4334> that was the best thing about gnome2
[23:19] <ali1234> it's especially annoying when i have a terminal with a command running in it (because i'm watching the debug out) then i click terminal on another workspace because i need to run some command, and it takes me back to the window where something is already running
[23:19] <sandfly> i agree
[23:19] <ali1234> middle click doesn't help here either
[23:19] <ali1234> i want the terminal on the workspace i'm on
[23:19] <ali1234> not a new one, not the one on another workspace where ther eis already a command running
[23:20] <ali1234> but then if i click the launcher again, it shows me all terminals
[23:20] <ali1234> but rearranged at random
[23:20] <ali1234> and there's no indication of which workspace which one is on
[23:20] <ali1234> so i still can't find the one i want
[23:20] <ali1234> so then i give up and open a new terminal
[23:20] <ali1234> resulting in hundreds of terminal windows open and i've no control over it
[23:22] <sandfly> to rotate my desk top was what brought me hear in the first place
[23:22] <sandfly> to take that away is bad form
[23:22] <ali1234> most of what i do cannot be done through a gui anyway
[23:22] <ali1234> i need a lot of terminals
[23:22] <ali1234> and i need to be able to find the one i want
[23:23] <dwatkins> that reminds me, I was going to try out scrotwm
[23:23] <ali1234> screen is not an option since i can only see one at a time, i normally need two or three for a given task
[23:23] <dwatkins> what a horrid name
[23:23] <sandfly> that 2 arrow thing is no solution
[23:23] <andylockran> :D
[23:23] <dwatkins> ali1234: I assume you know you can split windows with screen
[23:24] <ali1234> but i can't select the one i want by clicking, or can i?
[23:24] <ali1234> another good one
[23:24] <ali1234> i'll google for a how to
[23:24] <ali1234> then i find a list of instructions
[23:25] <ali1234> so then i click terminal so i can carry them out
[23:25] <hamitron> summary: the window manage is suppose to make it easy for the user to manage windows..... and it fails for the way you work ali1234  ;)
[23:25] <ali1234> and i get warped to another workspace and can no longer see the instructions
[23:25] <hamitron> manager*
[23:25] <ali1234> then i sigh, drag the window to the edge of the current workspace that overlaps the workspace with firefox on it
[23:25] <dwatkins> ali1234: you can make terminal appear on all workspaces
[23:25] <ali1234> then go to that workspace, then drag the terminal all the way onto that workspace
[23:26] <dwatkins> or right-click to make it appear on a specific one
[23:26] <ali1234> and then do what it was i should have already done by now, if unity application switching didn't totally suck
[23:26] <ali1234> i don't want it on all workspaces, and i don't want to shuffle it around workspaces
[23:26] <dwatkins> what are you trying to achieve, and could you just fullscreen your terminals and use multiple desktops, or is that still broken in unity (assuming you're using it)?
[23:26] <ali1234> when i click on terminal, i want the terminal from the current workspace
[23:27] <ali1234> when i click on the launcher it should NEVER EVER take me to a different workspace, unless i click the workspace switcher
[23:27] <hamitron> agreed
[23:27] <dwatkins> I don't know what the philosophy was behind it.
[23:28] <hamitron> probably good for simple small screens, like netbooks?
[23:28] <ali1234> it's to stop complete bigginers from "losing" windows
[23:28] <emorris> Hi, I have regular Ubuntu 11.04 on one partition, with a separate /home partition, and have just installed Ubuntu Studio on a third, hoping to share /home. My home area is encrypted, but Ubuntu Studio doesn't seem to have what it needs to mount the encrypted area properly. Anyone have any ideas as to how to get it working?
[23:28] <ali1234> bigginers lol
[23:28] <ali1234> i'm getting worse
[23:28] <hamitron> your fingers are on fire!
[23:28] <hamitron> ;D
[23:29] <hamitron> all the typing/ranting
[23:29] <dwatkins> emorris: I'm not sure sharing a homedirectory is a good idea, how about a shared data directory instead?
[23:30] <reaper4334> yeah, because the home directory usually has settings and such for applications too
[23:30] <AlanBell> emorris: rake bootstrap RAILS_ENV=development
[23:30] <AlanBell> emorris: paste fail, sorry!
[23:30] <emorris> dwatkins, I wouldn't normally, but I was going to try it as I thought Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio would be similar
[23:30] <AlanBell> emorris: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedHome
[23:31] <dwatkins> emorris: I don't know about the encrypted directories, but if you're sharing a /home partition, it's probably best to have at least separate user directories in it for each instance of operating system, otherwise apps will get confused when they stomp on each other's changes, especially if you have different versions of packages on each one
[23:32] <ali1234> running unity --replace while in classic is not a good idea
[23:33] <ali1234> so here's another good one: try running gimp in unity
[23:33] <ali1234> by default you'll have about 4 windows 4 it
[23:33] <ali1234> 4 it? geez
[23:33] <emorris> dwatkins, hmm, I guess
[23:33] <ali1234> anyway, if you lose track of say, the toolbox... you are pretty much done for
[23:33] <ali1234> because unity won't bring it to the front for some reason
[23:33] <ali1234> no matter how much you click on the launcher icon
[23:35] <ali1234> so then you have to start looking "under" all your windows
[23:35] <ali1234> because unity expose gives absolutely no indication of where the window really is on screen
[23:35] <ali1234> or even which workspace it is on
[23:35] <ali1234> so then you start minimizing everything on all your workspaces
[23:36] <ali1234> by the time you find it, your whole desktop is completely messed up and you have no idea where everything else was
[23:36] <ali1234> this is the kind of thing that happens to me on a daily basis while trying to use unity
[23:37] <ali1234> global menu just adds extra fun because you're never really sure which window the menu belongs to
[23:37] <ali1234> especially since half the time the focussed window doesn't look like it's focussed due to bugs
[23:39] <reaper4334> I think it'd be better if there were settings for whether or not to use the global menu, instead of using classic instead
[23:40] <ali1234> there are two things that would vastly increase the usability of unity
[23:41] <ali1234> one of them is switching off global menu, and the other one is having a completely independent launcher for each workspace
[23:41] <ali1234> so a different set of pinned apps, and don't show running apps fromother workspaces
[23:41] <sandfly> that could work
[23:42] <sandfly> got my vote
[23:42] <reaper4334> yes, definitely. That, and more customisable panels it would be an upgrade rather than a downgrade
[23:42] <AlanBell> personally I am a bit meh about the whole thing
[23:42] <sandfly> lol
[23:43] <AlanBell> it isn't anything that bothers me one way or another
[23:43] <ali1234> great
[23:43] <ali1234> AlanBell: so then you have no objections to the changes that i propose?
[23:43] <AlanBell> What I think would be worth investing the time is making Ubuntu work well as a network
[23:43] <AlanBell> ali1234: go right ahead
[23:44] <AlanBell> so when I install ubuntu I want it to say, "is this your first Ubuntu machine, or do you want to connect this to another?"
[23:44] <ali1234> "connect" how?
[23:45] <AlanBell> and if I tell it I have another (which it can discover with avahi) then it synchronises the accounts
[23:45] <AlanBell> and lets me move home directories about as required
[23:45] <sandfly> i like that to
[23:45] <ali1234> how would this work in practice?
[23:45] <ali1234> my home directory is 300GB
[23:46] <AlanBell> so I have my computer and there are three kids computers, I want to be able to log in as daddy on whatever computer I sit down at
[23:46] <AlanBell> my home directory is on my laptop so would be mounted over nfs or ssh when I log on
[23:46] <AlanBell> unless I wanted to move it to another computer
[23:48] <AlanBell> at the moment I basically have four unrelated computers
[23:48] <ali1234> i only have 1 computer that i use
[23:48] <sandfly> i have 2
[23:49] <sandfly> net book and desk top
[23:49] <ali1234> netbooks are for messing around
[23:49] <AlanBell> right now there is very little that makes Ubuntu awesome for an office environment
[23:49] <sandfly> would be nice to be able to synchronise them
[23:49] <ali1234> i wipe mine more often than i use it
[23:50] <ali1234> basically only use it to test distros and software that's gonna crash my dev workstation - which is bad
[23:52] <ali1234> by homedir is too big to fit on my netbook, i dunno how i'm supposed to sync them
[23:54] <ali1234> that's not even including all my VM images
[23:54] <sandfly> it need not be the whole home dir, the option to sync a folder or 2 like docs would solve that issue
[23:54] <ali1234> you mean like you can already do with ubuntu one?
[23:54] <sandfly> not in a cloud !!!!
[23:54] <ali1234> what's wrong with a cloud?
[23:55] <sandfly> i have some trust issues with it
[23:56] <ali1234> well, unlucky then, i guess
[23:56] <sandfly> so it would seam
[23:57] <sandfly> the trusty mem stick would have to work for now
[23:57] <ali1234> no one is going to give you a sync tool that actually works when there's money to be made from cloud services
[23:58] <sandfly> i hear you
[23:58] <ali1234> besides, big business is the saviour of open source, and anyone who doesn't agree is a propellerhead, or something
[23:58] <ali1234> so you should just like, get over those trust issues and learn to love the cloud
[23:58] <ali1234> (btw i am being sarcastic)