[06:43] <TheMuso> ScottL: Whenever I tried to get Andy's attention/find him, he was busy...
[14:53] <holstein> ScottL: ping
[14:53] <holstein> maybe i'll wait for scott-work
[15:25] <holstein> ailo__: you around?
[15:52] <ailo__> holstein, Just came back
[15:55] <holstein> SWEET
[15:55] <holstein> ailo__: i have an idea
[15:55] <holstein> it came to me while i was reading ralphs email
[15:56] <holstein> and thinking about putting a fork in my eye ;)
[15:56] <ailo__> a fork in your eye?
[15:56] <holstein> ailo__: jabbing my eyes out, so i cant read them anymore
[15:56] <holstein> anyways...
[15:56] <holstein> i have an email on the -del list about this idea
[15:56] <ailo__> ah, ok :)
[15:56] <holstein> since the UI change is such a mess
[15:57] <holstein> what is the current ubuntustudio-desktop metapackage..
[15:57] <holstein> we just take that
[15:57] <holstein> basically as-is
[15:57] <holstein> hopefully needing little to no maintanence
[15:57] <holstein> rename that package
[15:57] <holstein> call it ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome
[15:57] <holstein> SO
[15:57] <holstein> when someone installs normal buntu
[15:58] <holstein> they sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome
[15:58] <holstein> and they get what we got now
[15:58] <holstein> *for as long as gnome2 is in the repos
[15:58] <holstein> some documentation on the website, and in the 'vanilla' section of the wiki
[15:59] <holstein> that should get closer to pleasing everyone
[15:59] <holstein> and not require anything on our end
[15:59] <holstein> ailo__: ?
[16:00] <ailo__> sorry. had to run out a bit
[16:00] <ailo__> I think it sounds like a good idea
[16:01] <holstein> COOL
[16:01] <holstein> seems easy enough
[16:01] <holstein> whats the other one?
[16:01] <holstein> ubuntustudio-menu ?
[16:01] <holstein> something like that
[16:01] <holstein> i'll need to look into that too
[16:01] <holstein> and whats happening with it
[16:01] <ailo__> I don't remember how much installing ubuntustudio-desktop onto a vanilla install will actually turn the desktop into ubuntustudio-desktop, though
[16:02] <holstein> no reason why the current cant be ubuntustudio-menu-gnome
[16:02] <holstein> i remember ScottL trying to show me how to maintain some of that
[16:02] <holstein> i could try again
[16:02] <ailo__> I mean, themes and things like that will of course change
[16:02] <holstein> ailo__: i was thinking it would be like installing xubuntu-desktop
[16:02] <holstein> in 10.04
[16:02] <ailo__> But panel settings and that sort of things will not - if there are any user settings already made
[16:02] <holstein> if you run sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[16:03] <holstein> ubuntu-desktop wants to go bye-bye
[16:03] <holstein> SO, ideally, in unity buntu
[16:03] <ailo__> Also, I don't know about all the stuff in the background that on vanilla takes up a lot more memory than on current ubuntustudio-desktop
[16:03] <holstein> you run sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome
[16:03] <holstein> and unity is gone
[16:03] <holstein> and what we have now shows up
[16:03] <holstein> OR
[16:04] <holstein> if someone wants unity-studio
[16:04] <ailo__> Well, I don't think it's all that simple - even though you get the desktop functionality you want
[16:04] <holstein> they just get the other metas
[16:04] <holstein> ailo__: we'd need to test and ask around
[16:04] <holstein> and im into that
[16:04] <ailo__> I wonder what is the most important about all that. Is it the theme, or is it the desktop
[16:05] <holstein> well, there was an interesting message on the ML
[16:05] <ailo__> Cause if it's just about the desktop, then you don't really need ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome, just gnome
[16:05] <holstein> someone said that the current desktop is too divergent from the standard buntu
[16:06] <holstein> the gnome we produce is too different for their taste
[16:06] <holstein> ailo__: i thought it was be easier to maintain ubuntustudio-desktop
[16:06] <holstein> for us*
[16:06] <holstein> and the look and feel would be the *same*
[16:06] <holstein> which is the end result i wanted
[16:07] <holstein> i just wanted to say 'if you dont like change, heres what you do'
[16:07] <holstein> and you can do that as long as gnome2 is around
[16:07] <holstein> which is out of our control
[16:08] <ailo__> Ok. Like a transition thing
[16:08] <ailo__> At least for next release
[16:08] <holstein> sure
[16:08] <holstein> or just something we 'set and forget'
[16:08] <holstein> til buntu pulls gnome2
[16:09] <ailo__> But is gnome2 going to be supported next release?
[16:09] <holstein> ailo__: thats the other question
[16:09] <holstein> when does buntu pull gnome2
[16:09] <holstein> i heard, and assumed its going to be there for a while
[16:09] <holstein> but, who knows
[16:09] <ailo__> Even with Gnome3, it will not be a big change. You can always run it without gnome-shell
[16:09] <holstein> i cant imagine it being around after the wayland switch*
[16:10] <holstein> ailo__: i dont want us to have to develope a gnome3 desktop though
[16:10] <ailo__> Gnome3 without the shell I think is practically gnome2, but less configurable at the moment
[16:10] <holstein> unless it just takes out current gnome2 setup
[16:10] <holstein> OR if its dirt-simple
[16:11] <holstein> OR, if one of the list complainers wants to take that on
[16:11] <ailo__> I don't know the specifics of course, but as far as I understand, anything gnome2 should be supported
[16:11] <holstein> ailo__: thats compatibility mode?
[16:11] <ailo__> Gnome3 uses both gtk2 and gtk3. You can use the panel, just as before - what else is there?
[16:12] <holstein> true
[16:12] <holstein> thats something to entertain
[16:12] <holstein> of course, that does involve change
[16:12] <holstein> to some degree
[16:12] <holstein> i was trying to get the exact same thing
[16:12] <ailo__> Just saying that it may be no difference going with Gnome3 for the next release, or even the next two releases
[16:12] <holstein> until change is not an option anymore
[16:13] <ailo__> As long as you use it without the shell
[16:13] <holstein> ailo__: im lurking in #gnome now
[16:13] <holstein> trying to learn a few particulars
[16:13] <holstein> we'll see
[16:13] <holstein> ailo__: i wouldnt mind having a 'same' option
[16:13] <holstein> as long as its simple
[16:14] <holstein> and maintenance-free for us
[16:15] <ailo__> tbh, the change to XFCE is not about creating a safe option for multimedia use in the future in my view. It's about personla choice. And especially when it comes to AWN
[16:16] <ailo__> There is of course the notion that Gnome3 is not going to be the default for vanilla Ubuntu
[16:16] <ailo__> But, now when you brought this up, I'm thinking the transition from Gnome2 and Gnome3 is probably pretty painfree for at least one release, maybe two
[16:17] <holstein> maybe
[16:17] <holstein> i asked about compatibilty mode
[16:17] <holstein> in #gnome
[16:17] <ailo__> This would need to be looked into of course
[16:17] <holstein> and how long it would be around
[16:17] <holstein> and someone quickly said 'gnome2 is dead' ;)
[16:17] <holstein> i didnt ever get anything definitive
[16:17] <ailo__> Well, whatever they meant by that
[16:18] <holstein> nor, have i been able to see compatibility mode from the live CD's im running
[16:18] <ailo__> And what do they mean with compatibility mode?
[16:18] <holstein> ailo__: i know, im not sure
[16:18] <ailo__> All of the gnome2 apps will work
[16:18] <holstein> i was thinking gnome2 like look
[16:18] <holstein> thats what someone on the ML implied
[16:18] <holstein> and i didnt spend a whole lot of time on it
[16:18] <ailo__> So, it's about the theming, then?
[16:18] <holstein> in a live CD
[16:19] <holstein> ailo__: well, i think its going to be change in general
[16:19] <holstein> thats what most dont understand
[16:19] <holstein> change is happening
[16:19] <holstein> around US
[16:19] <holstein> we have to do something
[16:19] <holstein> gnome3 is not default
[16:19] <ailo__> gtk3 is a new standard for gui applications, but it doesn't mean gtk2 will stop being supported
[16:19] <holstein> unity would be the natural move
[16:19] <ailo__> Just like gtk1.2 was around for a long while
[16:20] <ailo__> And qt3, when that was replaced by qt4
[16:20] <holstein> unity, in one way is the move to stay more like what we have now
[16:20] <holstein> BUT
[16:20] <holstein> XFCE is another way to stay with what we have now
[16:20] <holstein> its challening
[16:20] <holstein> i mean, at some point, we just have to do it
[16:20] <holstein> and let the chips fall
[16:21] <holstein> ralph just came around a bit
[16:21] <holstein> on the list
[16:21] <holstein> he asked how to help :)
[16:21] <holstein> thats cool
[16:21] <ailo__> Yeah, it would be nice if he helped.
[16:22] <ailo__> I don't see XFCE pushing to become anymore multimedia friendly than Unity or Gnome3. I don't feel the purpose for changing UI is totally clear right now
[16:23] <holstein> true
[16:23] <holstein> i think its a good idea to do it now though
[16:23] <ailo__> It's not about single app focus, at least I don't think that's a dilemma at all
[16:23] <ailo__> And it sure isn't about performance either
[16:23] <holstein> we could jump ship by 12.04
[16:23] <holstein> and do something different
[16:24] <ailo__> I don't think anything called Ubuntu should try to be different. Ubuntu Studio, being in the main repo should be Ubuntu, but multimedia friendly
[16:24] <holstein> thats one angle
[16:24] <holstein> and a valid point
[16:25] <holstein> thats more like thinking of appealing to current desktop users
[16:25] <holstein> which is fine
[16:25] <holstein> i think we were hoping to pool resources with xubuntu
[16:25] <holstein> and maybe attract some unity defectors
[16:25] <ailo__> I think it should be universal as much as possible, but be very strict about audio and video performance and compability
[16:26] <ailo__> Using windows is of course a big issue
[16:27] <ailo__> Theming for me, should come last anyway
[16:27] <holstein> this could also get to, why have a release?
[16:27] <holstein> why not just maintain some metas
[16:27] <holstein> that folks can add?
[16:27] <holstein> and theres good reasons for having an iso
[16:27] <holstein> its challenging
[16:27] <holstein> these are exciting times though
[16:27] <holstein> im stoked :)
[16:27] <ailo__> Well, if the UI is not good for multimedia, than it should only be changed to the degree it needs to be, in my opinion. That could mean just tweaking a panel
[16:28] <holstein> if we are trying to ease the trasition
[16:28] <holstein> XFCE is a good call
[16:28] <holstein> XFCE does look and feel more like gnome2 than unity
[16:28] <ailo__> I'm more worried about -lowlatency tbh
[16:28] <holstein> but, thats catering to current ubuntutsudio users
[16:28] <ailo__> Without that, I don't care about the UI
[16:28] <holstein> not ubuntu users
[16:29] <holstein> ailo__: yeah, i cant believe we dont have -lowlatency
[16:29] <holstein> that sux
[16:29] <holstein> i thought that was just happening
[16:30] <ailo__> We should have a -lowlatency installable for Oneiric by the beginning of June
[16:30] <ailo__> For me the two main focus points are getting -lowlatency in and some kind of a -controls application to help tune the system
[16:31] <ailo__> With those two, you can use any UI you want - even though a specific UI for multimedia is of course a nice bonus
[16:31] <holstein> ailo__: agreed
[16:31] <ailo__> You can even use any Ubuntu derived distro you want
[16:32] <ailo__> As ScottL said, you can always change your mind about the UI for the next release. It's not easy making a good choice now. And it's nice that there is vision.
[16:33] <ailo__> I can see one point in using AWN, or something like that. If you make it into a multimedia specific panel, even that can be used on any Desktop or distro
[16:34] <holstein> and it looks more like OSX
[16:34] <ailo__> It doesn't have to be
[16:34] <holstein> which, if we are attracting an audio professional
[16:34] <holstein> that might be a +
[16:34] <ailo__> I'm more concerned with the functionality. Not the look
[16:34] <holstein> sure
[16:34] <ailo__> If it doesn't add anything, no reason to use it
[16:35] <holstein> i still plan on removing it ;)
[16:35] <ailo__> If it doesn't help using awn, it's just a waste of resources adding that to the Desktop config
[16:36] <ailo__> But, there are ideas around it, which is what makes me interested
[16:36] <holstein> im trying to stay open-minded about it
[16:36] <holstein> its not going anywhere
[16:36] <holstein> it came with the XFCE move somehow
[16:36] <holstein> and thats fine
[16:36] <ailo__> ckontros had that plan from the start
[16:36] <holstein> i would like to hold off on the dock
[16:37] <holstein> make the new XFCE look and feel almost exactly like the current setup
[16:37] <holstein> ease the transition
[16:37] <holstein> then, start tweaking it
[16:37] <holstein> so its not such a drastic change
[16:38] <ailo__> Well, it would be less of a transition with Gnome3
[16:38] <holstein> im sure its going to look and feel great though
[16:38] <holstein> ailo__: you think?
[16:38] <ailo__> Without gnome-shell
[16:38] <holstein> i think it depends on how long that stays around
[16:38] <holstein> which we dont know
[16:39] <holstein> maybe we should entertain that as a viable backup plan
[16:39] <holstein> just in case
[16:40] <ailo__> Not a bad idea continuing the gnome2 support
[16:41] <ailo__> Just a matter of who will have time to do it
[16:41] <holstein> yeah, maybe i can learn
[16:41] <holstein> if its easy enough for me
[16:41] <holstein> ralph and I :)
[16:41] <holstein> we'll be the gnome2 team 
[16:41] <ailo__> Ok
[16:42] <holstein> alright... gott get some eggs
[16:42] <holstein> and pick up some audio files :)
[16:42] <holstein> laterx
[16:42] <ailo__> ok holstein. See you
[22:28] <scott-work> holstein: astraljava: if we did keep a ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome package around for people then we might smooth any transition by really joinking the UI as cory might do with a dock and no panel
[22:29] <holstein> scott-work: agreed
[22:29] <holstein> i was thinking that it should work
[22:29] <holstein> for a while
[22:29] <holstein> just keeping that meta-package as-is
[22:29] <holstein> and renaming it
[22:29] <holstein> the gnome2 stuff should be changing much anymore
[22:30] <holstein> and developers gernerally wont be implementing things that break gnome2 for a long time
[22:32] <astraljava> scott-work: Right, yeah I just worry that some of the package names will be pointing to GNOME 3 versions of functionalities.
[22:32] <astraljava> But I will pay more attention to it soon, so I can give a more valuable opinion.
[22:37] <holstein> cool
[22:37] <holstein> yeah, these are the questions to ask
[22:37] <holstein> and if it seems easy
[22:37] <holstein> i say, lets do it
[22:38] <holstein> theres a great new thread that just got started 
[22:38] <holstein> by karl
[22:38] <holstein> asking about this*
[22:38] <holstein> i was thinking
[22:38] <holstein> new versions of apps will run in both
[22:38] <holstein> for a long time
[22:39] <holstein> the metapackage shouldnt need tweaking
[22:39] <holstein> assuming we dont want to change the wallpaper and theme
[22:39] <holstein> which, i think should be left alone
[22:39] <holstein> the menu?
[22:39] <holstein> thats something im not sure about
[22:40] <holstein> the xfce from what i understand is actually one of the better DE's at being compliant with standards
[22:40] <holstein> we'll see
[22:40] <holstein> we can just keep that on the back burner as we get close
[22:40] <scott-work> my understanding is that gtk2 applications will still work with gtk3, which apparently is what gnome3 is going with currently
[22:40] <holstein> it would help ease the transisition
[22:40] <holstein> scott-work: right
[22:41] <holstein> gtk3 apps is what i worry about
[22:41] <scott-work> astraljava: i would expect that the gnome2 stuff would work as it is
[22:41] <holstein> yeah, it *should*
[22:42] <astraljava> scott-work: Okay, so things like gnome-menus and gnome-session and the like won't be called as such in GNOME 3? I must admit, I am totally clueless to the architecture and implementation of the new DE.
[22:43] <scott-work> astraljava: i'm not sure we need to worry about the mechanics of gnome3, do we?
[22:43]  * ckontros waves.
[22:43] <scott-work> oops, i'm wrong, dreadfully wrong astraljava 
[22:43] <scott-work> ubuntu-desktop just answered that gnome2 won't be in the archives and it _will_ be gnome3
[22:44] <scott-work> hi cory
[22:44] <astraljava> scott-work: That was my worry, and that the packages that would be called with those names will actually provide GNOME 3 components.
[22:44] <scott-work> ckontros: did you enjoy the fireworks this weekend on the ML? ;)
[22:45] <ckontros> ScottL: The guys from the Shimmer Project (did the Xubuntu art) and that one artist both responded positively. The both want details as to whats involved. Sounds good though.
[22:46] <ckontros> scott-work: Where? Did I miss something? :)
[22:47] <scott-work> ckontros: oh, that sounds incredibly awesome!
[22:48] <ckontros> Both are busy and just want exacting details as to whats involved. But both seem keen to help.
[22:48] <scott-work> astraljava: holstein :  more bad news, i was speaking with jibicha in #ubuntu-desktop, he says that gnome2 will not exist in the archives, that gnome3 will provide that functionality, and it will be the "compatability" mode that looks and functions like gnome3 less the 3d
[22:49] <scott-work> ckontros: we can work up some specs i'm sure :)
[22:49] <ckontros> scott-work: Yeah. I got it handled. Working it all up now.
[22:50] <ckontros> Only thing we might have to talk about ate thematic elements.
[22:50] <ckontros> That's /if/ they don't want to take those creative reigns.
[22:51] <astraljava> scott-work: Okay, so that idea is outta window. Too bad, but it's not like we were really counting on it in the first place.
[22:51] <scott-work> ckontros: we'd probably need to get kokito invovled, either on the front end or at least on the back to tie it with the website
[22:52] <holstein> scott-work: when?
[22:52] <holstein> they are pulling it this release?
[22:52] <holstein> i heard they were leaving it in
[22:52] <holstein> that would kill the backup plan
[22:52] <scott-work> holstein: jbicha says it is so, i'm trying to get his ppa name so we could test it
[22:52] <holstein> i think its gotta be easy*
[22:52] <holstein> if buntu is pulling gnome2
[22:52] <holstein> then, we let it go
[22:53] <holstein> ckontros: o/
[22:53] <ckontros> scott-work: Well, if we have what we want to convey (thematic stuff) I can just have them create some more images, use a wallpaper and general color scemes for the site.
[22:53] <scott-work> holstein: astraljava : here is jbicha's ppa if you are interested:  https://launchpad.net/~jbicha/+archive/ppa
[22:53] <scott-work> i might try it as well just to verify it
[22:54] <scott-work> but we really might need to talk to *someone* like cjwatson just to make sure we are not getting fed something incorrect
[22:54] <holstein> scott-work: whats in his PPA?
[22:54] <holstein> gnome2?
[22:55] <scott-work> gnome3
[22:55] <scott-work> one of the pakcages built is called gnome-panels
[22:55] <ckontros> So, what's the current chat about here? The ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome post?
[22:55] <holstein> scott-work: O I C
[22:56] <holstein> nah, i wanted ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome to just be the same as ubuntusudio-desktop is now
[22:56] <holstein> im not interested in a gnome3 version
[22:56] <holstein> personally*
[22:56] <holstein> ckontros: basically
[22:56] <ckontros> Ahh... Yeah. No GNOME2 and upgrade paths will be a PITA.
[22:57] <holstein> if gnome2 could stay in the repos
[22:57] <holstein> and we just rename
[22:57] <holstein> then, why not
[22:57] <holstein> but, otherwise, screw it
[22:57] <astraljava> scott-work: Alright, will have a look.
[22:57] <holstein> thats just more support for the move
[22:57] <holstein> and folks are coming around
[22:57] <scott-work> yeah, it would have been nice to be able to offer that to people with only renaming the package
[22:57] <ckontros> Because it aint gonna happen. Basically. I would bet my home it wouldnt happen.
[22:57] <holstein> scott-work: so thats confirmed though?
[22:58] <ckontros> I could just see that being a *massive* lib mess.
[22:58] <holstein> ckontros: ?
[22:59] <holstein> a gnome3 meta?
[22:59] <ckontros> Keeping GNOME2&3 in the repos.
[22:59] <holstein> ckontros: O I C
[22:59] <holstein> yeah, for them
[22:59] <scott-work> yeah, that's what it's sounding like from #ubuntu-desktop
[23:00] <holstein> i just thought i had heard it was sticking around
[23:00] <holstein> for compatibility
[23:00] <holstein> eh, i like it
[23:00] <holstein> out with the old, in the the new i say
[23:00] <holstein> we just got some FUD going around 
[23:00] <holstein> not a big deal
[23:01] <ckontros> I think G3 is in a much better state for that than GTK1 vs. 2 was.
[23:01] <holstein> i think the tone has improved recently
[23:02] <ckontros> Honestly, I think the distro is the least of our concerns. I agree with Scott that the website will be where its at. Thats where I think we can pull the greatest community help.
[23:03] <scott-work> alright, going home, catch you in 30
[23:03] <ckontros> As we can, or technical folks come along, we can go after bugs and better integration of systems. Upgrading/backporting packages.
[23:03] <holstein> ckontros: yeah, i like that angle
[23:03] <holstein> and agree
[23:03] <holstein> it'll be fine
[23:04] <holstein> im just trying to chill the current complainers out a bit
[23:04] <holstein> they'll be fine though
[23:04] <holstein> and might actually come get involved
[23:04] <ckontros> Where? On the *-users list? (im not on it) I musta missed something. :)
[23:04] <holstein> yeah, the -user list is the one with the mess
[23:05] <holstein> pretty much
[23:05] <holstein> its good though
[23:05] <holstein> people getting fired up about it
[23:05] <ckontros> Ok Ill look it over to get the gist.
[23:06] <holstein> i wouldnt unless you just have to ;)
[23:07] <ckontros> haha. Ok. I wont. I realize everyone wont like the change. Im ok with that. Far more people will bitch than those who are fine with it.
[23:07] <ckontros> We'll test upgrade paths. If it doesnt work well (it should just fine) we'll ask people to do clean installs.
[23:08] <ckontros> Worst thing I see happening is that it will pull new XFCE deps people wont want.
[23:08] <holstein> yeah, we cant please everyone
[23:08] <holstein> there were a lot of folks that just wanted to keep gnome2
[23:08] <holstein> and didnt seem to realize why that was off the table
[23:09] <ckontros> New installs should rock. I've been using what I hope works as the new UI for weeks now and its been very nice. I didnt expect it to go this well considering I *never* change things around. :P
[23:10] <ckontros> holstein: Not really up to us. Hell, XFCE will even go to GTK3.
[23:10]  * ckontros shrugs.
[23:13] <ckontros> In the end, it the new Layout doesn't work, we'll recreate our GNOME layout with XFCE. Totally possible. But I think we should try something new.
[23:13] <ckontros> *if the new...
[23:13] <holstein> yeah
[23:14] <holstein> its a good move
[23:14] <holstein> that we have all thought about
[23:14] <holstein> and necessary
[23:14] <holstein> and i think folks on the list just didnt realize that
[23:14] <holstein> i think they thought it was just a UI change
[23:14] <holstein> for no good reason
[23:14] <holstein> there were folks unaware of gnome3
[23:14] <holstein> commenting on how bad xfce was once
[23:14] <ckontros> Heh. How could that happen. News of it is everywhere. :)
[23:15] <holstein> its better now though
[23:15] <holstein> ckontros: well, if you're a mailing list kinda guy
[23:15] <holstein> and not on the IRC
[23:15] <holstein> or listening to a podshow or whatever
[23:15] <holstein> i guess you could just miss it ;)
[23:15] <ckontros> Just in general Ubuntu news. Its everywhere. Tied up with talk about Unity.
[23:15]  * ckontros shrugs.
[23:15] <holstein> i know
[23:16] <holstein> TBH
[23:16] <holstein> i dont think they know about unity either 
[23:16] <holstein> somehow
[23:16] <holstein> anyways, its going to be fine either way
[23:16] <holstein> we are looking to the future
[23:16]  * ckontros scratches head. Ok. :)
[23:16] <holstein> and thats great
[23:16]  * holstein gotta run eat before the gig
[23:16] <holstein> BBL...
[23:16]  * ckontros waves.
[23:18] <astraljava> ckontros: It was news to me too, and I at least read quite a lot of ubuntu-related mailing list activity. Granted, I'm in shadows when it comes to blogs (planet.*) etc.
[23:18] <astraljava> It's not all over everything.
[23:19] <ckontros> astraljava: Suprising. Ubuntu and GNOME3 news is all over it seems. Slashdot, Engadget, Ars... Tech sites really.
[23:19] <ckontros> Big change all around so it's got some press.
[23:20] <astraljava> ckontros: Yeah, I meant really that it's going to replace the existing in so tight schedule.
[23:21] <ckontros> It'll be like the KDE 3->4 bandaid. Just gotta rip it off and get it over with. :P
[23:21] <astraljava> ckontros: Well it makes sense when you think about it. Guess I just hadn't given it the thought it required.
[23:22]  * ckontros wonders what a Studio switch to KDE would do to peoples fragile little minds... :P hhehehehehhee
[23:22] <ckontros> The *big* thing we
[23:22] <ckontros> doh
[23:22] <astraljava> Not an altogether impossible idea. :D
[23:23] <astraljava> Just for the heck of it. :D
[23:23] <ckontros> The *big* thing we'll have to watch out for is *apps* that pull GNOME depends. Could inflate our disk size dramatically.
[23:23] <astraljava> That's right.
[23:24] <ckontros> Some weird app that wants to pull Nautilus and therefore half of GNOME with it.
[23:26] <ckontros> I do like Thunar, but I miss my Nautilus tabs right about now. :( But I think the switch is good and gonna work fine. We just have to test alot to be sure of the switch. I don't wanna switch back to GNOME in 2 cycles. :P
[23:31] <astraljava> Hehe... I haven't touched Nautilus (in the GUI sense for browsing the filesystem) in several years. It's all terminal for me, so wouldn't possibly interact with Thunar at all.
[23:32] <astraljava> But you're right, switching back and forth is crazy.
[23:52]  * ScottL is cooking dinner for the kids and reading backscroll
[23:56] <ckontros> Later guys. PM if needed.
[23:59] <ScottL> it will be interesting to see what the daily images are like before we change the seeds
[23:59] <astraljava> ScottL: True. :D