[00:01] <nhaines> hiatus: I'm sorry you're frustrated.  I know how annoying it can be to use your computer but not have it respond the way you need it to.
[00:02] <nhaines> Choosing "Ubuntu Classic" from GDM will reenable the classic GNOME Panel interface on Ubuntu 11.04.  This setting should stay until you change it again.
[00:12] <Boardinary> lol
[00:17] <nhaines> hiatus1: I'm sorry you're frustrated.  I know how annoying it can be to use your computer but not have it respond the way you need it to.
[00:17] <nhaines> Choosing "Ubuntu Classic" from GDM will reenable the classic GNOME Panel interface on Ubuntu 11.04.  This setting should stay until you change it again.
[00:17] <hiatus1> man, no, I do man. I do
[00:18] <hiatus1> I freaked out when I checked out gnome 3 and it had all the things I hated about unity in it
[00:18] <nhaines> And thank you for using Unity and sharing your thoughts on it here with us.
[00:20] <nhaines> Yes, GNOME Shell has a lot of the same design philosophy.
[00:21] <hiatus1> see, the thing is. I used to set up gnome to look similarly to unity.  if I could turn the ubuntu icon into a regular main menu. put the file, edit, etc. right after that. And following the file, edit stuff put the windows list. I would be happy.
[00:21] <hiatus1> or at least have a windows selector in the unity panel and keep all the application menu options in the top taskbar
[00:21] <hiatus1> happy
[00:22] <nhaines> There is a global application menu you can add to the GNOME Panels.
[00:22] <nhaines> That used to be the default but there was a lot of negative feedback that most users wanted "Ubuntu Classic" to emulate Ubuntu 10.10 as closely as possible, so that was reverted.
[00:23] <Boardinary> The only beef I have with unity is that the workspace switcher should combine expo and scale together.
[00:23] <hiatus1> I never actually use workplace switcher
[00:23] <nhaines> Boardinary: It's very useful but it doesn't scale with tons of windows.
[00:23] <Boardinary> nhaines, I agree, but that is why we have 4 desktops
[00:23] <nhaines> (That is, it's very useful if you're using a couple windows per app at the most, but perhaps less useful as that increases.)
[00:24] <Boardinary> I guess, your argument still applies to the current workspace switcher
[00:25] <nhaines> As I recall, clicking a launcher icon will expose all windows across all desktops.
[00:25] <hiatus1> i really hate searching for my apps though. it just wastes so much time. I mean, could you imagine how much more ineffectual it would be to type all your apps in on your cellphone? this is a throwback from the 80's that needs to be killed
[00:25] <hiatus1> I mean, if I'm typing everything in anyway, why not just use the terminal?
[00:26] <Boardinary> hiatus1, you only need to type the first couple of lettters usually
[00:26] <nhaines> hiatus1: you just have to type enough to get a unique match.
[00:26] <nhaines> And sometimes not even that.  I've found (to my surprise) that I can launch things faster than before.
[00:26] <Boardinary> hiatus1, you can usually do it one handed
[00:27] <Boardinary> it absolutely is faster if you know what you want.  If you don't know what you want, it is slower - that is an area where unity can improve
[00:27] <nhaines> Drove me crazy the first three days though.  :)
[00:27] <hiatus1> no
[00:27] <hiatus1> no
[00:27] <hiatus1> no
[00:27] <hiatus1> no
[00:28] <nhaines> !enter
[00:28] <hiatus1> I am not going to type in even the beginning of every application I want. Gnome Do (or was it gnome go) had this same feature, and it was cool for some, but most did not use it
[00:28] <Boardinary> nhaines, the single application expo does not really encourage the workspace concept as well as the expo + scale
[00:29] <hiatus1> windows 7, has a way to search for applications, but only by typing in a few keys. No one uses it. Mac osx as well, as a way of searching for applications. No one uses it.
[00:29] <nhaines> hiatus1: the intended use case in Unity is that you pin your most common apps to the launcher and search for the rest.
[00:29] <hiatus1> that only works for people who use a few applications. I develop games. Do you realize how much software I use?
[00:30] <hiatus1> amongst game engines, 3d applications, paint programs, amongst my browsers, media players, and everything else. I would just have a billion pinned applications
[00:31] <nhaines> So I would recommend a desktop manager/shell that is optimized for that type of workflow.
[00:31] <hiatus1> and games is a big deal, You realize how many games people play? Your killing my market to want to develop games for ubuntu because people will not have easy access to them
[00:31] <hiatus1> your shell kills my market
[00:31] <Boardinary> nhaines, the single application scale* does not really encourage the workspace concept as well as the expo + scale
[00:32] <nhaines> hiatus1: That's not what the shell is for.
[00:32] <nhaines> Boardinary: thank you, I read it the first time.
[00:32] <Boardinary> nhaines, I was just correcting my typo
[00:32] <nhaines> ah, okay.  I didn't want you to think I was ignoring.  :)
[00:32] <hiatus1> yeah, I noticed that
[00:33] <nhaines> hiatus1: so that's okay.  Unity will continue to improve but if it's that big a source of pain, you should use Ubuntu Classic (or another desktop environment) and optimize the settings to what you're doing.
[00:33] <nhaines> Maybe Unity will work better for your situation in 11.10 or 12.04, or maybe not.  But you obviously shouldn't use something that breaks your workflow.
[00:34] <hiatus1> yeah, I tried, but I couldn't take it anymore. Unity got way too in the way. Just switching for application to application was a pain in the neck
[00:35] <Boardinary> hiatus1, do you have a mouse with lots of buttons?  I really recommend it.  You can then assign scale and expo to dedicated mouse buttons.
[00:36] <hiatus1> eh, I don't like my mouse really. I need to get a new one... sensitivity is great. but I turn my extra buttons off because I keep bumping into them with my thumb
[00:37] <Boardinary> hiatus1, I have the logitech mx 1100 and I highly recommend it.
[00:37] <hiatus1> but, thats another issue. Things like the searchbar are going to great a huge amount of problems for third party applications and game developers
[00:39] <hiatus1> we do not have much of a presence in the unity shell. I develop for mainly cellphones, but I was working on a multi platform game using unreal and blender and I really dont think there will be much presence for installable games in unity
[00:42] <hiatus1> I mean, the whole workspace is assuming you are only launching a few favorite applications. while most steam users have a multiple of games that they keep installed. Do you expect everyone to pin every game they play?
[00:43] <Boardinary> hiatus, it takes less time to hit super+ca to get a came like call of duty to show up
[00:44] <Boardinary> I know with gnome 2, I had to go to applications, wine, programs, game publisher, call of duty
[00:45] <nhaines> With Unity, it'd be <Super> "C-A-L-L"
[00:45] <hiatus1> hotkeys are only for neckbeards, surem they are easier. but casual users do not use them
[00:45] <nhaines> Although I actually just launch Steam and pick the game I want from there, usually.
[00:45] <Boardinary> not even, might even be ca and it will show up
[00:45] <nhaines> Boardinary: calculator?  :)
[00:45] <Boardinary> yeah but you will see call of duty next to it
[00:45] <hiatus1> i mean, if hotkeys were so simple to use. Everyone would be using emacs
[00:46] <nhaines> One might also argue that no one could turn on their computer because it requires a dedicated button.
[00:46] <hiatus1> huh?
[00:47] <Boardinary> emacs is not simple to use, pressing super plus the first letter of a program is
[00:47] <hiatus1> I know, I used emacs before. Took me awhile to figure out that Super pressed down, and super pressed up are two different things
[00:49] <hiatus1> no, this just reminds me of eben moglens speech about how he hated the apple lisa when he reviewed it for ibm. He hated it because it was point and grunt and said that it was a tragedy and the end of language but he also said that that was a losing argument. that people liked the "point and grunt" interface and unity seems a step backwards from that
[00:50] <hiatus1> well, anyway. if you type in "torrent" you dont get anything in unity. seems like a bug
[00:51] <Boardinary> yeah, gotta type bit
[00:51] <nhaines> hiatus1: it probably is.  File a bug against Transmission and perhaps the package description can be updated.
[00:52] <Boardinary> I also think that there needs to be some kind of indicator manager
[00:54] <nhaines> Yeah, that's not very well-defined at the moment.
[00:54] <hiatus1> I will later, I'm working on something at the moment
[00:54] <Boardinary> the thing I love about the new panel is that the icons don't rearrange at will when changing resolutions
[00:54] <nhaines> hiatus1: it was not a real-time request.  If you can do so later when you're free it would be a big help.
[00:55] <nhaines> Boardinary: isn't that great?  :)  It's fixed in GNOME 3.0, too.
[00:56] <Boardinary> nhaines, i really am shocked and appalled that it took so long to fix that bug.  It was so glaring.
[00:56] <nhaines> Boardinary: it might've been more complicated under the surface than it appeared.  I know it certainly got better before it was fixed.
[00:57] <Boardinary> nhaines, it was one of those OCD triggers everytime I would log in :)
[00:57] <nhaines> haha :)
[00:57] <hiatus1> yeah, rearranging panel icons was very annoying
[00:58] <Boardinary> I was reading in /r/linux that mutter may have better performance than compiz.  Is that the case now?  I know it wasn't last cycle.
[00:59] <hiatus1> lmao, my one musician tried to make normal music. and it ended up sounding like metroid
[00:59] <nhaines> That I don't know.  I know it certainly wasn't the case last cycle either.
[00:59] <hiatus1> props to her using lmms though
[01:00] <Boardinary> There is a lot of unity hate in /r/linux so I don't know how objective it is when it comes to gnome 3 vs unity
[01:01] <hiatus1> i dunno, I checked out gnome 3
[01:02] <hiatus1> it had everything I hated about unity. sooo...
[01:03] <Boardinary> nhaines, do you know anything about Udev-notify and if it will be inplemented into 11.10?
[01:03] <Omega> hiatus1: When you go on your rants, at least try to be somewhat constructive.
[01:04] <Omega> And as for your musician friend: #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:04] <hiatus1> i try, i try. I am not always successful, but I try.
[01:33] <hiatus1> god forbid my off topic comments get in the way of all this conversation ^.^
[07:30] <didrocks> good morning
[08:04] <oSoMoN> good morning
[08:04] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[08:04] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[08:40] <apw> does anyone know if i can turn off the F10 behaviour in global menus.  seems to have bound itself to both F10 and End after a keyboard reconfigure, and i have no End now
[08:42] <didrocks> apw: ccsm -> unity plugin -> Key to open the first panel menu
[08:42] <apw> didrocks, thanks
[08:42] <didrocks> yw
[09:54] <hicham> good morning
[10:05] <hicham> hi njpatel
[10:27] <zniavre> good morning
[10:28] <zniavre> with appmenu (the globalmenu thingy) gksu appas are not allowed , there is a way to use this menu with gksu apps please?
[10:28] <zniavre> apps*
[13:48] <andyrock> hi! :) this my new nickname (Andrea Azzarone)
[15:04] <hicham> didrocks: no luck on #compiz-dev either
[16:00] <kenvandine> Cimi, is the theme engine ready to be packaged? i would love to get started on that soon
[16:03] <Cimi> kenvandine: yes
[16:03] <kenvandine> woot
[16:03] <Cimi> kenvandine: though I won't make release and I won't follow branch/reviews thing
[16:03] <Cimi> neither update readme
[16:04] <kenvandine> sure
[16:04] <kenvandine> but it is  a start :)
[16:04] <kenvandine> just point me at a branch
[16:09] <Cimi> kenvandine: lp:unico
[16:09] <kenvandine> thx
[17:04] <dinth> hi
[17:05] <dinth> could somebody explain to me, why indicator-application requires appindicator at ./configure stage when compiling ?
[17:05] <dinth> isnt appindicator same thing ?
[17:19] <dinth> could somebody tell me if appindicator and indicator-application are same thing or not, please ?
[18:29] <Cimi> jjardon: could you mark this branch as abandoned? https://code.launchpad.net/~jjardon/ayatana-scrollbar/fix-72412 to clean up the stuff here :)
[18:40] <smoser> i'm wondering what package/project i should add as "also affects" for the root issue of bug 784055
[18:44] <rickspencer3> hey guys, if I wanted to stop Unity from "recording" for a while, could I just set the mru file and the zeitgeist database to readonly or something?
[18:45] <rickspencer3> I'm picturing an indicator that lets me toggle tracking on and off
[18:48] <smoser> i'm guessing it should be libindicator or indicator-applet
[19:53] <jcastro> rickspencer3: this is the best you can do afaict (unfortunately): http://askubuntu.com/questions/21417/temporarily-stopping-zeitgeist/21448#21448
[19:53] <jcastro> it would be nice to have a desktop-wide "privacy mode" though, like we do for browsers
[20:06] <rickspencer3> jcastro, I think I could just set the mode of hte file to read only
[20:06] <rickspencer3> I'll try it after my break
[21:16] <LLStarks> any good themes i can use on oneiric until murrine or clearlooks is ported to gtk3?
[21:21] <davidcalle> LLStarks, Adwaita?
[21:21] <davidcalle> LLStarks, I've just posted this on the Oneiric+1 forum : http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10828712&postcount=15
[21:31] <LLStarks> davidcalle, no adwaita wm
[21:32] <LLStarks> but works good enough i guess
[21:40] <Hooman> Anyone noticed hitting shortcuts that use the windows key too fast loads the launcher?
[21:40] <Hooman> E.g., I use Windows+Arrow keys to move between desktops and this loads the launcher after let go of the keys
[21:41] <Hooman> unless I hold them for a few seconds
[22:18] <vish> maco: it was a MarkDecision™  ;)
[22:19] <maco> magnifying glass != generic symbol for application
[22:19] <maco> i thought it was going to open either compiz ezoom or gnome-mag
[22:20] <vish> maco: i guess it was one of those "best among the options we had" kinda thing
[23:06] <jjardon> Cimi: done
[23:06] <Cimi> jjardon: thx! goodnight