[03:31] <ScottL> someone just sent me this link about us moving to xfce: http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/386600/ubuntu_studio_says_no_unity_adopts_xfce/
[03:31] <ScottL> looks like it's being picked up as an anti-unity/not towing canonical line issue
[04:28] <Kokito> good evening folks
[04:33] <ScottL> hi Kokito 
[04:33] <ScottL> here's something a little weird:  http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/386600/ubuntu_studio_says_no_unity_adopts_xfce/
[04:33] <Kokito> Hey ScottL !
[04:37] <Kokito__> sorry ScottL my chrome netbook crashed
[04:37] <holstein> Kokito__: ?
[04:37] <holstein> you got one of the new official chrome netbooks?
[04:37] <Kokito__> got one from the pilot program
[04:38] <holstein> interesting
[04:38] <Kokito__> in January
[04:38] <holstein> what do you think
[04:38] <holstein> hows the battery?
[04:38] <Kokito__> battery os good
[04:38] <Kokito__> is
[04:38] <holstein> cool
[04:38] <Kokito__> but the browser crashes too often
[04:38] <holstein> :/
[04:38] <holstein> odd
[04:38] <holstein> i use chromium
[04:38] <holstein> and its cool
[04:38] <holstein> usually*
[04:39] <holstein> Kokito__: local storage at all?
[04:39] <Kokito__> holstein: yes, but can only be accessed through the browser AFAICT
[04:40] <holstein> small local storage?
[04:40] <holstein> or is it decent?
[04:40] <holstein> like 4gb's or so?
[04:40] <holstein> at least
[04:40] <Kokito__> I think the total is 16GB
[04:40] <holstein> cool
[04:41] <Kokito__> yeah, got it for free, so can't complain
[04:41] <holstein> sure
[04:41] <Kokito__> but this browser-constrained user experience is not my piece of cake :)
[04:41] <holstein> i heard a thing about them today
[04:41] <holstein> Kokito__: you got cell wifi?
[04:42] <Kokito__> I have regular wifi
[04:42] <Kokito__> not through my cell, I mean
[04:43] <Kokito__> ScottL: can you paste that URL again please?
[04:43] <holstein> http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/386600/ubuntu_studio_says_no_unity_adopts_xfce/
[04:43] <holstein> ^ that one?
[04:44] <Kokito__> yep. thanks!
[04:47] <Kokito__> ScottL: so, what's your take reaction to the article on computer world?
[04:58] <ScottL> Kokito__, sorry was upstairs working on gnome3 and pulse/jack integration
[04:58] <ScottL> Kokito__, i skimmed through it (because it's about me and it makes me uncomfortable reading about me)
[04:59] <ScottL> but my first thought was that it was a bit of sensationalism to bash unity
[04:59] <holstein> yeah
[04:59] <holstein> i wish it had less unity bashing
[04:59] <holstein> or none
[04:59] <holstein> but, its a good article
[05:00] <ScottL> we are such a niche group that our opinion should not be weighted for any decisions
[05:02] <ScottL> holstein, you should look at the images at:  http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/
[05:02] <ScottL> holstein, i managed to get gnome 3 from a fedora live disc to dump into "fallback" mode
[05:02] <ScottL> which looks remarkably like gnome-panel
[05:03] <ScottL> i need to also email david henningsonn about what he said about jack and pulse working together, i don't think they do with ubuntu studio
[05:03] <holstein> ScottL: yeah
[05:04] <holstein> thats what i found
[05:04] <holstein> not the same functionality though
[05:04] <holstein> at all
[05:04] <holstein> fact is, XFCE is the most like gnome2 of any currently supported DE
[05:05] <holstein> ScottL: im not sure about that either
[05:05] <holstein> the pulse jack thing
[05:05] <holstein> sounds too easy to be true
[05:05] <holstein> ive used falks pulse-jack package
[05:05] <holstein> and ive read about how to do it the hard way
[05:06] <ScottL> david has an email on the -devel list about this, i'm going to hit him back with what i did and how it responded and see what he says
[05:06] <holstein> yeah, im following it closely
[05:06] <holstein> that thread
[05:06] <ScottL> holstein, why do you say not the same functionality, it was pretty much the same i thought
[05:06] <holstein> i hope it is that easy
[05:06] <holstein> ScottL: right click anywhere
[05:07] <holstein> or try doing anything you would do
[05:07] <holstein> to customize gnome2
[05:08] <Kokito__> ScottL & holstein: I agree the author's interpretation of the intent in the switch to XFCE is off. but I am not surprised. :)
[05:08] <ScottL> holstein, i haven't tried that, but i shall
[05:08] <holstein> ScottL: the look is clost
[05:08] <holstein> close*
[05:09] <holstein> but the feel is far off i find
[05:27] <ScottL> holstein, i see what you mean now
[05:34] <ScottL> Kokito__, that is true
[05:34] <ScottL> i'm going to bed
[05:35] <Kokito__> good night ScottL 
[12:44] <ScottL> hi  quadrispro  abogani 
[12:48] <abogani> ScottL: Hi Scott
[12:48] <quadrispro> hi ScottL abo
[12:49] <quadrispro> uh, gone
[12:49] <ScottL> lol
[12:49] <ScottL> quadrispro, what i was going to ask you about earlier was if you can think of any new plugins that we might want to include in ocelot
[12:50] <ScottL> quadrispro, and if you have had any practical experience with ladish...i've been playing with it to make sure i include everything needed for ocelot
[12:52] <quadrispro> ScottL, on phone, back soon
[12:53] <ScottL> quadrispro, no problem
[12:53] <ScottL> :)
[13:15] <quadrispro> ScottL, if you know other plugins, ping me
[13:16] <quadrispro> and, regarding ladish, we need to handle the lash2ladish transition
[13:16] <quadrispro> shortly, the most important point now is removing lash
[13:20] <ScottL> quadrispro, re: plugins, i'm sorry, didn't explain very well, i meant any of the plugins that recently have gone into debian during natty and now that might be really interesting
[13:20] <ScottL> e.g. i'm going to make sure the foo-yc20 is included
[13:20] <quadrispro> sure, foo-yc20 would be useful!
[13:21]  * quadrispro having a look at Natty's archive
[13:22] <quadrispro> ScottL, did someone backport mda-lv2 to maverick?
[13:22] <ScottL> i try to keep up with the debain multimedia ML and catch what i think is interesting but there is soo much traffic and i don't always see stuff
[13:22] <ScottL> quadrispro, i don't know if it was backported to maverick
[13:23] <ScottL> i do have it on my list to confirm it's in ocelot however :)
[13:23] <ScottL> actually it appears to be top of the list :)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#audio%20plugins
[13:23] <quadrispro> it's already in Natty
[13:23] <ScottL> oh good, i didn't remember if it was or not
[13:24] <quadrispro> ScottL, not eq10q 
[13:24] <quadrispro> I believe a backport would be appreciated
[13:25] <quadrispro> ScottL, wah-plugins is in Natty
[13:25] <quadrispro> vocproc is in Ubuntu since Maverick
[13:25] <quadrispro> autotalent is in Natty
[13:26] <quadrispro> and invada's lv2 stuff is available in Ubuntu since Lucid
[13:27] <quadrispro> I'm sorry for mixxx, but it was late for getting new release into 11.104
[13:27] <quadrispro> 11.04 *
[13:27] <quadrispro> a backport might be feasible, I think
[13:27] <ScottL> quadrispro, when you say "not eq10q"...are you saying we shouldn't ship it or we aren't shipping it and should?
[13:28] <ScottL> oh and don't spend too much time digging around, i was curious if there were any outstanding ones that we absolutely should include ;)
[13:28] <quadrispro> ScottL, sorry, eq10q hits Ubuntu Oneiric 
[13:28] <ScottL> and i further apologize, but i must leave to take kids to school/daycare and go to work, although i will be on again in about an hour though
[13:28] <quadrispro> natty doesn't have it
[13:29] <ScottL> okay, i'll adjust my list to reflect it :)
[13:29] <quadrispro> ScottL, just few quick checks don't hurt, no problem :)
[13:31] <quadrispro> ScottL, we have also updated gwc, many users may find it interesting
[13:34] <ScottL> oohhhh, i don't know aobut gwc, i'll look at it
[13:47] <quadrispro> going away, see you later
[15:34] <scott-work> good answer to that email holstein about gnome2 and asking someone to maintain it if they want it
[15:35] <astraljava> scott-work: Wasn't it specifically about maintaining GNOME 3 and Unity related packages? After all, having packages depend on GNOME 2 components becomes impossible now?
[15:36] <scott-work> i believe that is true astraljava 
[15:37] <astraljava> scott-work: Got thinking about this, especially after ckontros cracking jokes about KDE-based Studio. I might tinker with such packages in my PPA. Very interested to see what kind of results one could get.
[15:37] <astraljava> scott-work: The idea being there would be different metapackages for different DEs.
[15:37] <astraljava> scott-work: Naturally totally out of Ubuntu Studio's scope.
[15:38] <astraljava> But lending from its packages heavily.
[15:38] <astraljava> But that's off-topic, just thought I'd share. :)
[15:38] <scott-work> astraljava: have you tried kxstudio?
[15:38] <scott-work> it's kde based and qutie pretty and way too monotone dark for me
[15:38] <astraljava> scott-work: No I haven't, will have to one of these days.
[15:38] <scott-work> it becomes hard to differentiate one window from the next because it's uniform black all around :(
[15:41] <astraljava> Oh okay, yeah that's not nice.
[15:42] <holstein> scott-work: thats the kind of thing i should clear with you
[15:42] <holstein> but i was on a roll :)
[15:42] <holstein> and i figured, it is a community effort
[15:42] <holstein> if someone wants to come and start and maintain a meta
[15:42] <holstein> that should be welcomed right?
[15:43] <holstein> i mean, within reason*
[15:43] <astraljava> holstein: I don't see why not.
[15:43] <holstein> :)
[15:43] <astraljava> The team does one thing, and won't suppress the community efforts in any way.
[15:43] <holstein> well, anyone can always do a PPA
[15:43] <holstein> even if it conflicts with what we are doing or whatever
[15:44] <astraljava> Naturally, that's just what I threatened to do on my 'own' time above. :D
[15:44] <holstein> astraljava: thats a good place to test things too
[15:45] <astraljava> That's true.
[15:46]  * holstein gotta run... BBL
[15:50] <scott-work> holstein: absolutely!  and you don't need to clear that stuff with me
[15:57] <scott-work> i'm not sure anyone really needs to "clear" stuff with me
[15:57] <scott-work> i think it was a good thing to say, anything that helps get community involvement probably is a good thing ;)
[16:07] <astraljava> scott-work: You got that right. We need to gain velocity and interest. :)
[16:16] <holstein> i feel like ralph and i are playing a game of chess ;)
[16:17] <holstein> i think by the time that thread reaches 100+ emails
[16:17] <holstein> we are either going to be best friends
[16:17] <holstein> or dropping F bombs left and right
[16:17] <astraljava> Truly might be one or the other. :D
[16:19] <scott-work> lol holstein that's funny
[16:19] <scott-work> hi again quadrispro 
[16:19] <scott-work> my nanokontrol should be here by the weekend :)   i'm pretty damn stoked about it
[16:19] <holstein> w00t
[16:19] <holstein> those things are sweet
[16:19] <holstein> i was thinking about one
[16:20] <quadrispro> hi scott-work, hi all
[16:20] <holstein> mapping to ardour and sooperlooper
[16:20] <holstein> quadrispro: o/
[16:20] <scott-work> holstein: stuzz has me geared up to rerecord my parts for my song now that he rocked the drums on it
[16:20] <scott-work> holstein: i think stuzz probably did a better job than jono might have ;)
[16:21] <quadrispro> hi holstein !
[16:22] <quadrispro> scott-work, the next few days I'll have some packages to fix
[16:22] <astraljava> nanokontrol?
[16:23] <quadrispro> csound, gwc (fix is ready, will touch debian in few hours)
[16:23] <quadrispro> ecasound
[16:23] <quadrispro> and then I'd start the transition, at least in Ubuntu, from lash to ladish 
[16:23] <holstein> yeah, stuzz has quite a skill with h2
[16:23] <scott-work> quadrispro: that is super cool (transition from lash to ladish)
[16:24] <scott-work> quadrispro: i've said before, if nedko can fulfill his vision (which is pretty aggressive, i admit) then he will outstrip what i perceive jack-session is doing
[16:24] <quadrispro> i only need to to write down a list of all packages supporting lash, ries.debian.org will help me
[16:25] <scott-work> quadrispro: is there an easy way with packages.debian.org or similar site that will help me look for all the plugins available (lv2, ladspa, etc)?
[16:26] <quadrispro> scott-work, http://blends.alioth.debian.org/multimedia/tasks/packagelist.it.html
[16:27] <quadrispro> and http://blends.alioth.debian.org/multimedia/tasks/
[16:27] <scott-work> oh sweet, i will check them out
[16:29] <quadrispro> ;)
[16:31] <scott-work> last cycle i went through and combed through all available plugins to include what i could
[16:31] <scott-work> but i also "updated" in some cases from ladspa to lv2
[16:31] <scott-work> i think the swh and maybe one other i "updated" and removed the ladspa package
[16:34] <scott-work> hi saidinesh5 !  welcome to the channel
[16:34] <quadrispro> well done
[16:35] <saidinesh5> hello guys :)
[16:35] <quadrispro> falktx might be happy to know that I'm on fst, I hope to see it in Debian soon
[16:35] <saidinesh5> you know i didn't know that ubuntu studio is still active until just now i have seen the announcement in phronix (Y)
[16:39] <astraljava> saidinesh5: Interesting. We haven't missed a release ever since the first.
[16:39] <scott-work> saidinesh5: do you have a link?
[16:39] <scott-work> quadrispro: yes, i believe falktx will be happy
[16:39] <saidinesh5> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTQ1Mw
[16:39] <scott-work> i saw something recently in the ubuntu bug about fst
[16:40] <saidinesh5> astraljava: Oh last i tried ubuntu studio out was about a year (and a half maybe)ago   can't remember
[16:40] <scott-work> aaaahhhhh! another "ubuntu studio hates unity and gnome3" article :/
[16:40] <saidinesh5> just graduated from college, so may be i ll have chance to dig some music making apps again , so will probably give ubuntu studio another chance :)
[16:41] <scott-work> we don't hate them :P   we just prefer that gnome2 workflow
[16:41] <astraljava> Heheh. :)
[16:41] <saidinesh5> hehe
[16:42] <saidinesh5> btw. does the iso include a wubi installer ??
[16:42] <saidinesh5> i remember installing from an alternate iso the last time
[16:44] <quadrispro> scott-work, why not getting rid of pulseaudio?
[16:46] <quadrispro> I say: s/PulseAudio/JACK/
[16:48] <scott-work> quadrispro: are you asking why don't we get rid of JACK?
[16:48] <astraljava> saidinesh5: No it doesn't, it's the alternate install version.
[16:48] <scott-work> thanks for the link saidinesh5 , i need to start collecting these somewhere :P
[16:48] <quadrispro> scott-work, no, sorry: I'd like to avoid using PulseAudio
[16:48] <saidinesh5> scott-work: you are welcome :)
[16:49] <saidinesh5> astraljava: any reason that we don't give out a wubi installer?
[16:49] <scott-work> quadrispro: i would too my friend ;)
[16:49] <scott-work> unfortunately, we may simply only be able to integrate it better
[16:49] <scott-work> quadrispro: i'm workign with david henningsonn on this currently via ubuntustudio-devel ML
[16:50] <scott-work> he actually works at canonical on audio apparently
[16:50] <quadrispro> yes, I see, but... ok, pulse must be in place since it's installed by default
[16:51] <quadrispro> well.. why not avoiding it to run at startup?
[16:51] <astraljava> saidinesh5: Simplicity. I don't think you'd get the latency as low as you'd like when running in a sandbox like that. But I am no expert on such matters, so take this with a grain of salt.
[16:52] <scott-work> quadrispro: that is a possiblity, i'm not a robust developer, can you explain more how this might be accomplished
[16:52] <quadrispro> please note that ladish seems to conflict with jack and pulse-to-jack connector
[16:52] <scott-work> quadrispro: we could certainly incorporate this into ubuntustudio-settings or something
[16:52] <scott-work> ladish seems to conflict with jack?
[16:52] <saidinesh5> astraljava: but i don't think the latency is due to the disk access when using the real time apps ....
[16:52] <quadrispro> scott-work, no :) sorry again
[16:53] <quadrispro> I've encountered some issue while using the pulse's jack connector
[16:53] <scott-work> quadrispro: that's okay :)  i can probably bug someone on the #ubuntu-desktop channel about it
[16:53] <scott-work> quadrispro: and falktx probably knows a trick or two about it as well
[16:53] <quadrispro> pulseaudio-module-jack, that's the runtime package
[16:53] <astraljava> saidinesh5: Yeah, like I said, I haven't gotten too familiar with real-time. But to answer your installer question, that was it.
[16:53] <saidinesh5> hmm.......  
[16:54]  * saidinesh5 needs to figure out a way to test drive ubuntu studio ..... especially since he has ran out of free partitions 
[17:03] <astraljava> saidinesh5: You can always run the vanilla live-cd, then install all ubuntustudio-* packages on top. Won't get you the real thing, but neither would the live-DVD, albeit much closer. Maybe try the usb stick approach, which enables persistency.
[17:03] <scott-work> quadrispro: i will keep that in mind to explore with david 
[17:04] <quadrispro> ;)
[17:04] <saidinesh5> astraljava: yes, but still setting up all the environment for Music making is a huge PITA iirc
[17:05] <scott-work> saidinesh5: it's not nearly as bad as it used to be
[17:05] <scott-work> just like how many -rt improvements have been incorporated into the kernel, many settings have been resolved in other areas
[17:05] <scott-work> there's not many things a user needs to do in order to setup a "vanilla" install to record music these days
[17:06] <scott-work> they're still there, mind you ;)   just not as imposing as before
[17:07] <saidinesh5> scott-work: well i remember accepting some weird agreement from steinberg to just get Qtractor compile with vst support
[17:07] <saidinesh5> and then wine + half my vsts don't work
[17:07] <saidinesh5> hehe brb: pizza time :D
[17:08] <astraljava> Mmmm... pizza.
[17:45] <astraljava> Anyone else have problems with scrobbling to last.fm?
[18:03] <scott-work> sorry astraljava , i don't use last.fm
[18:12] <astraljava> Damn, you totally should. :)
[18:13] <saidinesh5> hmm..... back :)
[18:13]  * saidinesh5 luves the combo of extra cheese pizza + BBT 
[18:25] <astraljava> saidinesh5: Grrr... :D
[18:25] <saidinesh5> hehe
[18:26] <saidinesh5> so ya, now first i need to find a way to test drive ubuntu studio
[18:26] <saidinesh5> no extra partitions available...... no large enough pendrives....... dislike virtual machines
[18:52] <scott-work> hi troy_s  :)
[18:52] <troy_s> scott-work: Greets.
[19:31] <scott-work> mudita24
[21:18] <holstein> scott-work: latest linux action show mention US too
[21:18] <holstein> about the XFCE switch
[21:18] <holstein> didnt frame unity negatively at all too
[21:18] <holstein> i liked that
[21:19] <holstein> they agreed with the idea
[21:19] <scott-work> holstein: oh, good :)
[21:19] <scott-work> that's nice
[21:20] <holstein> they only said 'instead of adopting gnome3 or unity...'
[21:21] <scott-work> i'm thinking about asking the debian multimedia team to package mudita24:  http://code.google.com/p/mudita24/
[21:22] <scott-work> it's an envy24control replacement that has graduated scale for the sliders...they have good images on the website
[21:22] <holstein> scott-work: that would get it down to us quickier
[21:22] <holstein> i bet
[21:22] <holstein> yeah, thats nice
[21:22] <holstein> i dont need an internal mixer for the firepod
[21:22] <holstein> so, i have only messed with jack-mixer
[21:23] <scott-work> heh, that's a good use for jack-mixer, do we ship it by default?
[21:24] <holstein> scott-work: hmmm
[21:24] <holstein> good question
[21:24] <holstein> we should*
[21:24] <scott-work> i thought of jack-mixer for things like podcasts or doing live music
[21:24] <holstein> and i dont think so
[21:24] <holstein> thats when i found it
[21:24] <holstein> that should be in the podcasting meta
[21:24] <scott-work> yeah, if people who use firewire devices might use it too then we probably should ship it as well
[21:24] <scott-work> then email and blog about it's potential
[21:24] <holstein> yup
[21:24] <holstein> some screenies here and there
[21:25] <scott-work> trying to schedule with dan and fab about doing an interview for the xfce switch
[21:25] <holstein> we'll get jono to blog about it :)
[21:25] <scott-work> lol, yeah
[21:28] <scott-work> it would be interesting to start making songs with slightly nonsensical titles like, "Pulse Audio Mates with my Germanium Last Night"
[21:28] <scott-work> just for fun, mind you
[21:28] <holstein> i just found a delta44 on craigslist
[21:28] <holstein> locally
[21:28] <holstein> ill try and pick it up :)
[21:28] <scott-work> sweet, they're nice
[21:28] <scott-work> or "Jono Wears Little Socks on his Ears"
[21:29] <scott-work> how much is the 44?
[21:29] <holstein> $35
[21:30] <holstein> IF its still there
[21:30] <holstein> we'll see
[21:30] <holstein> "my ex-wives use proprietary DAW's"
[21:31] <scott-work> lawlz
[21:31] <scott-work> sweet deal with the 44 though
[21:31] <holstein> it doesnt look special, so maybe it slipped through the cracks
[21:31] <holstein> and is still available
[21:31] <holstein> * like i need more gear
[21:33] <holstein> alright.. off to the gig.. BBL
[21:33] <scott-work> lol, i'll by it from you :)
[21:33] <holstein> scott-work: we could make that happen
[21:34] <holstein> ill let you know if i get it
[21:34] <holstein> if not, im going to just be looking for a delta1010
[21:34] <holstein> not the lt one
[21:34] <holstein> so, i'll link you if/when i find them
[21:35] <holstein> anyhow.. BBL
[21:36] <scott-work> rockon
[21:36] <scott-work> hi pdxken !  welcome to the channel, how are you?
[21:37] <pdxken> Great! Thanks
[21:59] <pdxken> Any problem using UStudio stuff with Lubuntu? Now use Kubuntu on old P4.
[22:07] <scott-work> pdxken: shouldn't be any trouble using it with Lubuntu
[22:08] <scott-work> quadrispro: i was going to file an RFP for mudita24:  http://code.google.com/p/mudita24/source/checkout
[22:08] <scott-work> quadrispro: i'm tempted to try to package it but i just don't think i'll have time for it sadly :(
[22:08] <scott-work> way too many other irons in the fire
[22:09] <scott-work> pdxken: keep in mind, one of the ubuntustudio- packages replaces the desktop, so if you are partial to your setup you might want to try to find it and avoid it
[22:09] <quadrispro> scott-work, if you have the hardware to use for testing
[22:09] <scott-work> quadrispro: i do have it
[22:10] <quadrispro> well
[22:10] <quadrispro> scott-work, so RFP, I'll touch it later
[22:11] <astraljava> I have an M-Audio 24/96 card as well, more than happy to pay attention to it too.
[22:12] <pdxken>  KDE getting too big, not sure if I want LXDE or XFCE
[22:12] <scott-work> pdxken: the team has been talking about moving to xfce for the next release in october
[22:13] <astraljava> pdxken: I'm more personally interested in LXDE, but willing to go officially with the team towards XFCE.
[22:13] <pdxken> Thanks. sounds like a good one to try.
[22:14] <pdxken> I may try both on extra prtitions.
[22:17] <astraljava> pdxken: That's the ideal solution, so you get the initial experience from both worlds. Just remember to check back once they're officially released.
[22:24] <scott-work> quadrispro: i really want to package something so i might see about pushing some other stuff off presently, let me look at the svn checkout later when i get home
[22:24] <scott-work> i would still like to contribute something to debian
[22:27] <scott-work> i'm also trying to get upload rights to the ubuntustudio packages in ubuntu for this cycle so i dont' have to rely (read: bug) TheMuso so much
[22:27] <scott-work> this will also be especially true for this release if we move to xfce
[22:27] <scott-work> i think this will be true even if we don't go with xfce because of the change with gnome
[22:30] <scott-work> speaking of TheMuso, how did your chat go with Andy?
[22:31] <scott-work> i'm particularly anxious to lay out a plan for the -lowlatency kernel
[22:45] <quadrispro> scott-work, CC me in the RFP if you want
[22:45] <scott-work> quadrispro: ack