[03:31] someone just sent me this link about us moving to xfce: http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/386600/ubuntu_studio_says_no_unity_adopts_xfce/ [03:31] looks like it's being picked up as an anti-unity/not towing canonical line issue [04:28] good evening folks [04:33] hi Kokito [04:33] here's something a little weird: http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/386600/ubuntu_studio_says_no_unity_adopts_xfce/ [04:33] Hey ScottL ! [04:37] sorry ScottL my chrome netbook crashed [04:37] Kokito__: ? [04:37] you got one of the new official chrome netbooks? [04:37] got one from the pilot program [04:38] interesting [04:38] in January [04:38] what do you think [04:38] hows the battery? [04:38] battery os good [04:38] is [04:38] cool [04:38] but the browser crashes too often [04:38] :/ [04:38] odd [04:38] i use chromium [04:38] and its cool [04:38] usually* [04:39] Kokito__: local storage at all? [04:39] holstein: yes, but can only be accessed through the browser AFAICT [04:40] small local storage? [04:40] or is it decent? [04:40] like 4gb's or so? [04:40] at least [04:40] I think the total is 16GB [04:40] cool [04:41] yeah, got it for free, so can't complain [04:41] sure [04:41] but this browser-constrained user experience is not my piece of cake :) [04:41] i heard a thing about them today [04:41] Kokito__: you got cell wifi? [04:42] I have regular wifi [04:42] not through my cell, I mean [04:43] ScottL: can you paste that URL again please? [04:43] http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/386600/ubuntu_studio_says_no_unity_adopts_xfce/ [04:43] ^ that one? [04:44] yep. thanks! [04:47] ScottL: so, what's your take reaction to the article on computer world? [04:58] Kokito__, sorry was upstairs working on gnome3 and pulse/jack integration [04:58] Kokito__, i skimmed through it (because it's about me and it makes me uncomfortable reading about me) [04:59] but my first thought was that it was a bit of sensationalism to bash unity [04:59] yeah [04:59] i wish it had less unity bashing [04:59] or none [04:59] but, its a good article [05:00] we are such a niche group that our opinion should not be weighted for any decisions [05:02] holstein, you should look at the images at: http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/ [05:02] holstein, i managed to get gnome 3 from a fedora live disc to dump into "fallback" mode [05:02] which looks remarkably like gnome-panel [05:03] i need to also email david henningsonn about what he said about jack and pulse working together, i don't think they do with ubuntu studio [05:03] ScottL: yeah [05:04] thats what i found [05:04] not the same functionality though [05:04] at all [05:04] fact is, XFCE is the most like gnome2 of any currently supported DE [05:05] ScottL: im not sure about that either [05:05] the pulse jack thing [05:05] sounds too easy to be true [05:05] ive used falks pulse-jack package [05:05] and ive read about how to do it the hard way [05:06] david has an email on the -devel list about this, i'm going to hit him back with what i did and how it responded and see what he says [05:06] yeah, im following it closely [05:06] that thread [05:06] holstein, why do you say not the same functionality, it was pretty much the same i thought [05:06] i hope it is that easy [05:06] ScottL: right click anywhere [05:07] or try doing anything you would do [05:07] to customize gnome2 [05:08] ScottL & holstein: I agree the author's interpretation of the intent in the switch to XFCE is off. but I am not surprised. :) [05:08] holstein, i haven't tried that, but i shall [05:08] ScottL: the look is clost [05:08] close* [05:09] but the feel is far off i find [05:27] holstein, i see what you mean now [05:34] Kokito__, that is true [05:34] i'm going to bed [05:35] good night ScottL [12:44] hi quadrispro abogani [12:48] ScottL: Hi Scott [12:48] hi ScottL abo [12:49] uh, gone [12:49] lol [12:49] quadrispro, what i was going to ask you about earlier was if you can think of any new plugins that we might want to include in ocelot [12:50] quadrispro, and if you have had any practical experience with ladish...i've been playing with it to make sure i include everything needed for ocelot [12:52] ScottL, on phone, back soon [12:53] quadrispro, no problem [12:53] :) [13:15] ScottL, if you know other plugins, ping me [13:16] and, regarding ladish, we need to handle the lash2ladish transition [13:16] shortly, the most important point now is removing lash [13:20] quadrispro, re: plugins, i'm sorry, didn't explain very well, i meant any of the plugins that recently have gone into debian during natty and now that might be really interesting [13:20] e.g. i'm going to make sure the foo-yc20 is included [13:20] sure, foo-yc20 would be useful! [13:21] * quadrispro having a look at Natty's archive [13:22] ScottL, did someone backport mda-lv2 to maverick? [13:22] i try to keep up with the debain multimedia ML and catch what i think is interesting but there is soo much traffic and i don't always see stuff [13:22] quadrispro, i don't know if it was backported to maverick [13:23] i do have it on my list to confirm it's in ocelot however :) [13:23] actually it appears to be top of the list :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#audio%20plugins [13:23] it's already in Natty [13:23] oh good, i didn't remember if it was or not [13:24] ScottL, not eq10q [13:24] I believe a backport would be appreciated [13:25] ScottL, wah-plugins is in Natty [13:25] vocproc is in Ubuntu since Maverick [13:25] autotalent is in Natty [13:26] and invada's lv2 stuff is available in Ubuntu since Lucid [13:27] I'm sorry for mixxx, but it was late for getting new release into 11.104 [13:27] 11.04 * [13:27] a backport might be feasible, I think [13:27] quadrispro, when you say "not eq10q"...are you saying we shouldn't ship it or we aren't shipping it and should? [13:28] oh and don't spend too much time digging around, i was curious if there were any outstanding ones that we absolutely should include ;) [13:28] ScottL, sorry, eq10q hits Ubuntu Oneiric [13:28] and i further apologize, but i must leave to take kids to school/daycare and go to work, although i will be on again in about an hour though [13:28] natty doesn't have it [13:29] okay, i'll adjust my list to reflect it :) [13:29] ScottL, just few quick checks don't hurt, no problem :) [13:31] ScottL, we have also updated gwc, many users may find it interesting [13:34] oohhhh, i don't know aobut gwc, i'll look at it [13:47] going away, see you later [15:34] good answer to that email holstein about gnome2 and asking someone to maintain it if they want it [15:35] scott-work: Wasn't it specifically about maintaining GNOME 3 and Unity related packages? After all, having packages depend on GNOME 2 components becomes impossible now? [15:36] i believe that is true astraljava [15:37] scott-work: Got thinking about this, especially after ckontros cracking jokes about KDE-based Studio. I might tinker with such packages in my PPA. Very interested to see what kind of results one could get. [15:37] scott-work: The idea being there would be different metapackages for different DEs. [15:37] scott-work: Naturally totally out of Ubuntu Studio's scope. [15:38] But lending from its packages heavily. [15:38] But that's off-topic, just thought I'd share. :) [15:38] astraljava: have you tried kxstudio? [15:38] it's kde based and qutie pretty and way too monotone dark for me [15:38] scott-work: No I haven't, will have to one of these days. [15:38] it becomes hard to differentiate one window from the next because it's uniform black all around :( [15:41] Oh okay, yeah that's not nice. [15:42] scott-work: thats the kind of thing i should clear with you [15:42] but i was on a roll :) [15:42] and i figured, it is a community effort [15:42] if someone wants to come and start and maintain a meta [15:42] that should be welcomed right? [15:43] i mean, within reason* [15:43] holstein: I don't see why not. [15:43] :) [15:43] The team does one thing, and won't suppress the community efforts in any way. [15:43] well, anyone can always do a PPA [15:43] even if it conflicts with what we are doing or whatever [15:44] Naturally, that's just what I threatened to do on my 'own' time above. :D [15:44] astraljava: thats a good place to test things too [15:45] That's true. [15:46] * holstein gotta run... BBL [15:50] holstein: absolutely! and you don't need to clear that stuff with me [15:57] i'm not sure anyone really needs to "clear" stuff with me [15:57] i think it was a good thing to say, anything that helps get community involvement probably is a good thing ;) [16:07] scott-work: You got that right. We need to gain velocity and interest. :) [16:16] i feel like ralph and i are playing a game of chess ;) [16:17] i think by the time that thread reaches 100+ emails [16:17] we are either going to be best friends [16:17] or dropping F bombs left and right [16:17] Truly might be one or the other. :D [16:19] lol holstein that's funny [16:19] hi again quadrispro [16:19] my nanokontrol should be here by the weekend :) i'm pretty damn stoked about it [16:19] w00t [16:19] those things are sweet [16:19] i was thinking about one [16:20] hi scott-work, hi all [16:20] mapping to ardour and sooperlooper [16:20] quadrispro: o/ [16:20] holstein: stuzz has me geared up to rerecord my parts for my song now that he rocked the drums on it [16:20] holstein: i think stuzz probably did a better job than jono might have ;) [16:21] hi holstein ! [16:22] scott-work, the next few days I'll have some packages to fix [16:22] nanokontrol? [16:23] csound, gwc (fix is ready, will touch debian in few hours) [16:23] ecasound [16:23] and then I'd start the transition, at least in Ubuntu, from lash to ladish [16:23] yeah, stuzz has quite a skill with h2 [16:23] quadrispro: that is super cool (transition from lash to ladish) [16:24] quadrispro: i've said before, if nedko can fulfill his vision (which is pretty aggressive, i admit) then he will outstrip what i perceive jack-session is doing [16:24] i only need to to write down a list of all packages supporting lash, ries.debian.org will help me [16:25] quadrispro: is there an easy way with packages.debian.org or similar site that will help me look for all the plugins available (lv2, ladspa, etc)? [16:26] scott-work, http://blends.alioth.debian.org/multimedia/tasks/packagelist.it.html [16:27] and http://blends.alioth.debian.org/multimedia/tasks/ [16:27] oh sweet, i will check them out [16:29] ;) [16:31] last cycle i went through and combed through all available plugins to include what i could [16:31] but i also "updated" in some cases from ladspa to lv2 [16:31] i think the swh and maybe one other i "updated" and removed the ladspa package [16:34] hi saidinesh5 ! welcome to the channel [16:34] well done [16:35] hello guys :) [16:35] falktx might be happy to know that I'm on fst, I hope to see it in Debian soon [16:35] you know i didn't know that ubuntu studio is still active until just now i have seen the announcement in phronix (Y) [16:39] saidinesh5: Interesting. We haven't missed a release ever since the first. [16:39] saidinesh5: do you have a link? [16:39] quadrispro: yes, i believe falktx will be happy [16:39] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTQ1Mw [16:39] i saw something recently in the ubuntu bug about fst [16:40] astraljava: Oh last i tried ubuntu studio out was about a year (and a half maybe)ago can't remember [16:40] aaaahhhhh! another "ubuntu studio hates unity and gnome3" article :/ [16:40] just graduated from college, so may be i ll have chance to dig some music making apps again , so will probably give ubuntu studio another chance :) [16:41] we don't hate them :P we just prefer that gnome2 workflow [16:41] Heheh. :) [16:41] hehe [16:42] btw. does the iso include a wubi installer ?? [16:42] i remember installing from an alternate iso the last time [16:44] scott-work, why not getting rid of pulseaudio? [16:46] I say: s/PulseAudio/JACK/ [16:48] quadrispro: are you asking why don't we get rid of JACK? [16:48] saidinesh5: No it doesn't, it's the alternate install version. [16:48] thanks for the link saidinesh5 , i need to start collecting these somewhere :P [16:48] scott-work, no, sorry: I'd like to avoid using PulseAudio [16:48] scott-work: you are welcome :) [16:49] astraljava: any reason that we don't give out a wubi installer? [16:49] quadrispro: i would too my friend ;) [16:49] unfortunately, we may simply only be able to integrate it better [16:49] quadrispro: i'm workign with david henningsonn on this currently via ubuntustudio-devel ML [16:50] he actually works at canonical on audio apparently [16:50] yes, I see, but... ok, pulse must be in place since it's installed by default [16:51] well.. why not avoiding it to run at startup? [16:51] saidinesh5: Simplicity. I don't think you'd get the latency as low as you'd like when running in a sandbox like that. But I am no expert on such matters, so take this with a grain of salt. [16:52] quadrispro: that is a possiblity, i'm not a robust developer, can you explain more how this might be accomplished [16:52] please note that ladish seems to conflict with jack and pulse-to-jack connector [16:52] quadrispro: we could certainly incorporate this into ubuntustudio-settings or something [16:52] ladish seems to conflict with jack? [16:52] astraljava: but i don't think the latency is due to the disk access when using the real time apps .... [16:52] scott-work, no :) sorry again [16:53] I've encountered some issue while using the pulse's jack connector [16:53] quadrispro: that's okay :) i can probably bug someone on the #ubuntu-desktop channel about it [16:53] quadrispro: and falktx probably knows a trick or two about it as well [16:53] pulseaudio-module-jack, that's the runtime package [16:53] saidinesh5: Yeah, like I said, I haven't gotten too familiar with real-time. But to answer your installer question, that was it. [16:53] hmm....... [16:54] * saidinesh5 needs to figure out a way to test drive ubuntu studio ..... especially since he has ran out of free partitions [17:03] saidinesh5: You can always run the vanilla live-cd, then install all ubuntustudio-* packages on top. Won't get you the real thing, but neither would the live-DVD, albeit much closer. Maybe try the usb stick approach, which enables persistency. [17:03] quadrispro: i will keep that in mind to explore with david [17:04] ;) [17:04] astraljava: yes, but still setting up all the environment for Music making is a huge PITA iirc [17:05] saidinesh5: it's not nearly as bad as it used to be [17:05] just like how many -rt improvements have been incorporated into the kernel, many settings have been resolved in other areas [17:05] there's not many things a user needs to do in order to setup a "vanilla" install to record music these days [17:06] they're still there, mind you ;) just not as imposing as before [17:07] scott-work: well i remember accepting some weird agreement from steinberg to just get Qtractor compile with vst support [17:07] and then wine + half my vsts don't work [17:07] hehe brb: pizza time :D [17:08] Mmmm... pizza. [17:45] Anyone else have problems with scrobbling to last.fm? [18:03] sorry astraljava , i don't use last.fm [18:12] Damn, you totally should. :) [18:13] hmm..... back :) [18:13] * saidinesh5 luves the combo of extra cheese pizza + BBT [18:25] saidinesh5: Grrr... :D [18:25] hehe [18:26] so ya, now first i need to find a way to test drive ubuntu studio [18:26] no extra partitions available...... no large enough pendrives....... dislike virtual machines [18:52] hi troy_s :) [18:52] scott-work: Greets. [19:31] mudita24 [21:18] scott-work: latest linux action show mention US too [21:18] about the XFCE switch [21:18] didnt frame unity negatively at all too [21:18] i liked that [21:19] they agreed with the idea [21:19] holstein: oh, good :) [21:19] that's nice [21:20] they only said 'instead of adopting gnome3 or unity...' [21:21] i'm thinking about asking the debian multimedia team to package mudita24: http://code.google.com/p/mudita24/ [21:22] it's an envy24control replacement that has graduated scale for the sliders...they have good images on the website [21:22] scott-work: that would get it down to us quickier [21:22] i bet [21:22] yeah, thats nice [21:22] i dont need an internal mixer for the firepod [21:22] so, i have only messed with jack-mixer [21:23] heh, that's a good use for jack-mixer, do we ship it by default? [21:24] scott-work: hmmm [21:24] good question [21:24] we should* [21:24] i thought of jack-mixer for things like podcasts or doing live music [21:24] and i dont think so [21:24] thats when i found it [21:24] that should be in the podcasting meta [21:24] yeah, if people who use firewire devices might use it too then we probably should ship it as well [21:24] then email and blog about it's potential [21:24] yup [21:24] some screenies here and there [21:25] trying to schedule with dan and fab about doing an interview for the xfce switch [21:25] we'll get jono to blog about it :) [21:25] lol, yeah [21:28] it would be interesting to start making songs with slightly nonsensical titles like, "Pulse Audio Mates with my Germanium Last Night" [21:28] just for fun, mind you [21:28] i just found a delta44 on craigslist [21:28] locally [21:28] ill try and pick it up :) [21:28] sweet, they're nice [21:28] or "Jono Wears Little Socks on his Ears" [21:29] how much is the 44? [21:29] $35 [21:30] IF its still there [21:30] we'll see [21:30] "my ex-wives use proprietary DAW's" [21:31] lawlz [21:31] sweet deal with the 44 though [21:31] it doesnt look special, so maybe it slipped through the cracks [21:31] and is still available [21:31] * like i need more gear [21:33] alright.. off to the gig.. BBL [21:33] lol, i'll by it from you :) [21:33] scott-work: we could make that happen [21:34] ill let you know if i get it [21:34] if not, im going to just be looking for a delta1010 [21:34] not the lt one [21:34] so, i'll link you if/when i find them [21:35] anyhow.. BBL [21:36] rockon [21:36] hi pdxken ! welcome to the channel, how are you? [21:37] Great! Thanks [21:59] Any problem using UStudio stuff with Lubuntu? Now use Kubuntu on old P4. [22:07] pdxken: shouldn't be any trouble using it with Lubuntu [22:08] quadrispro: i was going to file an RFP for mudita24: http://code.google.com/p/mudita24/source/checkout [22:08] quadrispro: i'm tempted to try to package it but i just don't think i'll have time for it sadly :( [22:08] way too many other irons in the fire [22:09] pdxken: keep in mind, one of the ubuntustudio- packages replaces the desktop, so if you are partial to your setup you might want to try to find it and avoid it [22:09] scott-work, if you have the hardware to use for testing [22:09] quadrispro: i do have it [22:10] well [22:10] scott-work, so RFP, I'll touch it later [22:11] I have an M-Audio 24/96 card as well, more than happy to pay attention to it too. [22:12] KDE getting too big, not sure if I want LXDE or XFCE [22:12] pdxken: the team has been talking about moving to xfce for the next release in october [22:13] pdxken: I'm more personally interested in LXDE, but willing to go officially with the team towards XFCE. [22:13] Thanks. sounds like a good one to try. [22:14] I may try both on extra prtitions. [22:17] pdxken: That's the ideal solution, so you get the initial experience from both worlds. Just remember to check back once they're officially released. [22:24] quadrispro: i really want to package something so i might see about pushing some other stuff off presently, let me look at the svn checkout later when i get home [22:24] i would still like to contribute something to debian [22:27] i'm also trying to get upload rights to the ubuntustudio packages in ubuntu for this cycle so i dont' have to rely (read: bug) TheMuso so much [22:27] this will also be especially true for this release if we move to xfce [22:27] i think this will be true even if we don't go with xfce because of the change with gnome [22:30] speaking of TheMuso, how did your chat go with Andy? [22:31] i'm particularly anxious to lay out a plan for the -lowlatency kernel [22:45] scott-work, CC me in the RFP if you want [22:45] quadrispro: ack