[13:29] <gary_poster> bac benji (are you really here?) danilos gmb: kanban now-ish, skype almost now-ish
[13:29] <danilos> quack-quack
[13:30] <gmb>  Baa.
[13:30] <gmb> gary_poster had a farm, ee
[13:30] <gmb> 
[13:30] <gmb> i ee i o.
[13:30] <gary_poster> lol
[13:30] <danilos> :)
[13:36] <gary_poster> https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/BugLinking
[13:36] <gary_poster> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/95419
[13:36] <_mup_> Bug #95419: Record dependencies between bugs <lp-bugs> <oem-services> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/95419 >
[13:38] <danilos> gmb, gary_poster: I assume bug 674815 is "fix released" (Rob added it to our bug "view")?
[13:38] <_mup_> Bug #674815: When a bug is marked as duplicate, you are invited to subscribe to the master bug <lp-bugs> <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/674815 >
[13:49] <gary_poster> benji, please make sure you keep me/us apprised as to what you are working on so we can take over if the germs win today's battle
[13:50] <benji> gary_poster: sure; at the moment I'm fixing a bug I found in my 777786 branch, but once that's in the rube goldberg machine of landing I'll start another one.
[13:50] <gary_poster> cool
[13:50] <benji> if there's one in particular you like, let me know
[13:53] <gary_poster> bug 784575 is the new one
[13:53] <_mup_> Bug #784575: Change bug notification email to point to new bug +subscriptions page to manage subscriptions <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged by yellow> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/784575 >
[13:55] <gary_poster> benji, you could prepare a branch for that, even though we could land that; or just pick one.  bug 777789 and bug 781987 are the other good candidates that I see.
[13:55] <_mup_> Bug #777789: "Other subscriptions" description of direct team subscription makes no sense <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/777789 >
[13:55] <_mup_> Bug #781987: when a bug has no subscribers the list is shown as 'None' <story-better-bug-notification> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/781987 >
[13:56] <benji> sounds good
[13:56] <gary_poster> "even though we could land that" -> "even though we would land that at a later date"
[14:18] <gary_poster> bac benji danilos gmb, I've mentioned this to some of you in our pdr calls, but I was not consistent about it.  I thought of another goal that could be shared across the squad: we deliver value consistently within two week increments.  We will be evaluated by this collectively (as a squad), so it might be reasonable to call it out in our individual goals as well.  I won't require it, but it's a good idea, I think.
[14:18] <benji> I like it.
[14:18] <gary_poster> cool
[14:18] <gmb> So do I.
[14:19] <gary_poster> très bien
[16:28] <gary_poster> benji, extra points for a branch that removes the feature flags at the same time :-P
[16:29] <benji> will I get a 1up too?  I could use an extra life right about now.
[16:29] <gary_poster> heh, not in my power to grant :-)
[16:30] <gary_poster> extra points: ...I think....  Eagerly getting rid of the feature flags does make me a bit nervous, but AIUI that's what we are asked to do
[16:31] <benji> well, in this case we pretty much have to; the email sending can't be feature flagged (as far as I know) so everyone's emails will be sending them to a place that they might not be able to see unless we open up the feature flag to everyone, which is equivelent to just removing them
[16:32] <benji> ("them" == "feature flags", not the people)
[16:57] <gary_poster> yeah makes sense
[16:59] <gmb> Wouldn't it be safer to just open the feature flags up to everyone, land the branch that adds the link to the emails and then wait a week or so to remove the flags from the code?
[16:59] <gmb> I'm thinking about the cost of rolling back if we need to
[16:59] <gmb> (Though I guess with bzr it's pretty much moot)
[16:59] <gmb> (Aside from LOSA time)
[17:00] <gmb> benji, gary_poster ^^
[17:00] <gmb> (Which I say with no context or knowledge of anything you may have said about this recently)
[17:00] <gary_poster> gmb, I think this is the logic:
[17:01] <gary_poster> if we send emails with links to the page, then the feature flag better be open to everyone or gone
[17:01] <gary_poster> links are not feature flagged
[17:01] <gary_poster> the email links I mean
[17:01] <gary_poster> So here's a bad story
[17:01] <gary_poster> followed by a good story
[17:02] <gary_poster> The Bad Story
[17:02] <gary_poster> 1) we open up feature flags for everyone
[17:02] <gary_poster> 2) we land a branch that adds a link to the email
[17:02] <gary_poster> 3) oh noes!  Bad Things Happen!
[17:03] <gary_poster> 4) we turn off the feature flag for everyone (but don't revert the branch)
[17:03] <gary_poster> Result: emails are being sent out to a page that doesn't work
[17:03] <gary_poster> that is, that is feature flagged
[17:03] <gary_poster> The Slightly Better Story (known here as The Good Story, In Comparison)
[17:04] <gary_poster> 1) we open up feature flags for everyone
[17:04] <gary_poster> 2) we land a branch that adds a link to the email
[17:04] <gary_poster> 3) oh noes, etc.
[17:05] <gary_poster> (oh, sorry, #2 was supposed to also remove feature flags)
[17:05] <gary_poster> 4) We revert branch for #2
[17:05] <gary_poster> Result: emails are sent with the old, working link
[17:05] <gary_poster> Admittedly, it is somewhat slower
[17:05] <gary_poster> but the end result is better
[17:06] <gary_poster> We can wait a bit after step 1 (in either story) to see if we can prevent #3 from happening, of course
[17:06] <gary_poster> The othe advantage of The Slightly Better Story is that, if #3 never happens, we have done what we are supposed to do (remove the feature flags)
[17:07] <gary_poster> So anyway, I suppose one could argue either way, but I'm happy with going with the second approach
[17:07] <gmb> gary_poster: Okay. I'm officially ±0 as far as one way of doing it over the other. Like I said, bzr reduces the cost, except for LOSA time.
[17:07] <gary_poster> gmb, fair enough, and agreed
[17:09]  * gary_poster going for a lunch/walk, since my coding project is making me grumpy :-P
[17:09] <gmb> :)
[19:34] <bac> hi gary_poster
[19:34] <bac> gary_poster:  you post-grumpy?
[19:34] <gary_poster> :-)
[19:35] <gary_poster> mostly but on call
[19:35] <bac> np
[19:53] <gary_poster> bac, wassup?
[19:53] <bac> gary_poster: not much.  was just going to run a text change by you before i submitted my branch.  too late now.  :)
[19:53] <bac> idle chit chat mainly
[19:53] <gary_poster> heh, ok :-)
[19:54] <bac>  s/None/No subscribers./