| Chotaz | where can i get oneiric? | 00:48 |
|---|---|---|
| arand | Chotaz: I don't any liveCDs are up yet, so you simply edit the sources and pull wia apt. | 00:49 |
| Chotaz | is it true that oneiric is losing Gnome Classic Look? | 00:50 |
| arand | (Expect it to break, and act accordingly) | 00:50 |
| arand | Well, afaik that's the plan | 00:51 |
| Chotaz | I guess that'll be when I change distros. | 00:51 |
| arand | Well classic gnome isn't going to be around forever either way.. | 00:52 |
| Chotaz | I honestly hate unity | 00:52 |
| arand | Plenty of alternatives.. | 00:52 |
| Chotaz | for ubuntu? | 00:52 |
| rww | gnome3, kde, xfce, all the tiling window managers, openbox, fluxbox... | 00:54 |
| Chotaz | oh right, there's kde and the one starting with x, those are the oens I know | 00:54 |
| arand | xubuntu, kubuntu, lubuntu... (linux mint, Debian) | 00:54 |
| Chotaz | aesthetically, i like none of them | 00:54 |
| rww | the only WM you can stand is GNOME 2. really. well damn. | 00:54 |
| Chotaz | aren't they even try to have gnome 3 ? | 00:55 |
| Chotaz | or having gnome doesn't mean ahve gnome classic look? | 00:55 |
| rww | gnome3 is the first thing on my list. | 00:55 |
| rww | dunno whether GNOME 3 fallback will work, since it doesn't in the PPA for natty. | 00:55 |
| * rww hasn't looked at why that is | 00:56 | |
| arand | I'm guessing gnome-shell will be in the repositories, but not an alternaative by defualt | 00:56 |
| arand | I assume fallback will work when gnome3 is packaged properly Debian, I'm not sure how many they've got there working out things.. | 00:57 |
| arand | From what little I saw it was mainly one guy pulling that load :/ | 00:58 |
| rww | ooo, Debian went from 30 to 33 out of 118 packages up to date in unstable for gnome3 | 01:00 |
| rww | (yes, it's slow going) | 01:00 |
| arand | Looking at the PTS, that thing about one guy might be wildly innaccurate... | 01:00 |
| Chotaz | iiuc, they still need to make 33/118 packages compatible with gnome 3? | 01:00 |
| Chotaz | rww, any tip on my question on main channeç? | 01:01 |
| rww | Chotaz: no, 33 of the packages comprising gnome 3 are up to date in unstable, and (118-33) are still to go | 01:03 |
| rww | Chotaz: if I had one, I would have said it ;P | 01:03 |
| * rww doesn't do nvidia | 01:04 | |
| Chotaz | I gueess so, ty :) | 01:04 |
| Chotaz | next time I upgrade I'm going amd, both ways. | 01:04 |
| arand | Only way to keep safe seems to keep to intel... | 01:05 |
| rww | and not all intel | 01:06 |
| Chotaz | arand, by safe you mean? | 01:07 |
| arand | For support I guess... | 01:07 |
| arand | Well I can't complain, I've had very few issues with my current nv card.. | 01:07 |
| Chotaz | I currently have a Q660 OC'd at 4.0, perfectly stable with water cooling, 8GB of ram and a slightly OC'd GTX9800, but YT videos act weird on full screen, dunno why that'd happen on such a rig, neither I know how to get around it. | 01:09 |
| Chotaz | huh, wrong channel | 01:09 |
| Chotaz | sorry | 01:09 |
| LLStarks | what's the timeline for ubuntu defaulting to btrfs? | 01:21 |
| bjsnider | there is no definite timeline | 01:22 |
| rww | did it get discussed during UDS? I haven't perused the UDS schedule/videos yer | 01:22 |
| rww | yet ** | 01:22 |
| bjsnider | certainly we need a working btrfsck | 01:22 |
| arand | That's "kindamaybe" at the end of this month, but then again, that will be a first relese of fsck that can actually do useful things, will likely take a while to refine... | 01:24 |
| arand | I've not been able to find anything but the YT vids... I'd love to see/hear the btrfs session :/ | 01:25 |
| jtaylor | arand: wheren't they recorded? | 01:27 |
| rww | The ones I'm talking about are the youtube ones, yes. | 01:27 |
| arand | Just not uploaded yet, I think. | 01:27 |
| Gulfstream | does regular apt-get upgrade work? | 01:28 |
| rww | Gulfstream: work for what, exactly? | 01:28 |
| arand | Gulfstream: With sources editing, yes. | 01:28 |
| Gulfstream | I just built an ISO, and I applied updates to it | 01:28 |
| arand | (Expect breakage, act accordingly) | 01:28 |
| Gulfstream | I meant, does the OCaml rebuild affect apt-get upgrade? | 01:29 |
| rww | Do you have ocaml-related packages installed? | 01:29 |
| Gulfstream | rww, I have the same packages as Natty, but with Oneiric updates | 01:30 |
| rww | Gulfstream: I don't think natty desktop includes ocaml-related packages by default. | 01:30 |
| rww | I could be wrong, as always. | 01:30 |
| arand | I love the suggestion of ubudev unlockable achivements laid out in the community contributions video :D | 01:32 |
| rww | so I wonder what we're going to complain about in here this cycle instead of Unity O:) | 01:32 |
| Gulfstream | GNOME 3? | 01:33 |
| arand | rww: Do you seriously expect folks to not complain about Unity !? | 01:33 |
| Gulfstream | Firefox 5 or 6? | 01:33 |
| Gulfstream | LibreOffice 3.4 ? | 01:33 |
| rww | arand: people usually get bored of complaining about new things after a month or so. see window control position for example | 01:33 |
| jtaylor | well that still annoys me | 01:34 |
| Gulfstream | or... overlay scrollbars | 01:34 |
| jtaylor | even though I have reverted that change | 01:34 |
| rww | Gulfstream: less complaining there than I thought there'd be | 01:34 |
| arand | rww: Very true, though that was arguably a bit less invasive than Unity.. | 01:34 |
| rww | true. I guess it got overshadowed | 01:35 |
| rww | or maybe it actually works for most people and nobody hates it. iono. | 01:35 |
| arand | I guess it will be just general gnome3 breakage, more lack of configurability, etc.. | 01:35 |
| Gulfstream | so is it for sure that there will be GNOME 3 n 11.10? | 01:36 |
| arand | I think that is the plan, gnome3 with Unity as the DM. | 01:36 |
| arand | (Which seems like a daunting task) | 01:37 |
| Gulfstream | and it will have Ubuntu CLassic? | 01:37 |
| arand | ...When gnome3 isn't even properly impemented yet | 01:37 |
| semitones | The new weird/broken thing overshadows the old weird/broken thing, even if that hasn't been fixed or addressed | 01:37 |
| arand | Gulfstream: Nope, unity/unity-2d (According to plan) | 01:37 |
| rww | Unity 2D the Qt thing? | 01:37 |
| arand | Yea. | 01:38 |
| rww | interesting. haven't tried it yet. | 01:38 |
| arand | If you don't use cirrus it actually works ok on qemu-kvm | 01:38 |
| jbicha | I hear that btrfs has poorer performance than ext4 in too many cases | 01:57 |
| arand | jtaylor: Yes, partly because it is not mature, partly because that has never been it's goal.. | 01:58 |
| arand | (Focus on features instead of blazing fast) | 01:59 |
| Gulfstream | arand, Why would they have Unity 2D instead of Ubuntu Classic? | 02:05 |
| Gulfstream | It doesn't make sense. | 02:05 |
| rww | because two different UIs is a pain for user experience | 02:05 |
| bjsnider | the plan is to have the full gnome 3 with gnome-shell, and unity as login choices | 02:06 |
| bjsnider | unlike the natty situation | 02:06 |
| Gulfstream | oh so then a user can use the Unity UI on a new computer and old computers? | 02:06 |
| bjsnider | not necessarily old computers, but in situations where the graphics driver can't do compositing | 02:07 |
| Gulfstream | so less computers will be able to run Ubuntu 11.10 than run 10.04? | 02:08 |
| arand | bjsnider: So gnome-shell installed by default? | 02:08 |
| bjsnider | right | 02:08 |
| bjsnider | you'd just pick which one you'd want to use at the login screen | 02:08 |
| bjsnider | the session selector | 02:09 |
| arand | That's quite exciting, got any source for that? | 02:09 |
| bjsnider | that's straight from the gnome 3 team | 02:09 |
| Gulfstream | I'm going to test my Ubuntu 11.10 CD now. | 02:09 |
| bjsnider | they're working on it right now | 02:09 |
| bjsnider | they've already got the packages in oneiric | 02:10 |
| arand | Interesting.. | 02:10 |
| jbicha | bjsnider: I believe you're a bit mistaken | 02:10 |
| jbicha | Gnome Shell will be in the repositories but not on the CD | 02:10 |
| arand | Yea, that's what I was thinking as well... | 02:11 |
| bjsnider | what does the cd have to do with it? | 02:11 |
| arand | The preeseed rather, I guess.. | 02:11 |
| jbicha | you said Gnome Shell would be installed by default and that is definitely not true for 11.10 | 02:11 |
| Gulfstream | that disc didn't work :( | 02:13 |
| bjsnider | i'm not sure i actually said it would be installed by default, but the packages will be there and can be installed side-by-side with unity, which is not the case now | 02:13 |
| bjsnider | i don't give a hoot what's on the cd | 02:14 |
| bjsnider | in natty, you have to destroy your unity packages to use gnome 3. that will not be the case in oneiric | 02:15 |
| Gulfstream | good | 02:15 |
| bjsnider | well, destroy your ability to go back to unity | 02:15 |
| Gulfstream | I'm going to try another disc, and see if it will be able to boot and install | 02:16 |
| Gulfstream | this time, I am only modifying sources.list | 02:16 |
| arand | Easiest is to install natty and then pull the ugrade.. | 02:17 |
| Gulfstream | I'm wanting to use a disc that does almost everything. | 02:18 |
| Gulfstream | I modified sources.list, and refreshed package info, so I'll see if that works. | 02:18 |
| === hallyn is now known as hallyn_afk | ||
| jbicha | Unity is still usable with the gnome3 PPA but the look & feel is broken & there are a bunch of bugs | 02:20 |
| Gulfstream | yeah | 02:20 |
| Gulfstream | bjsnider, do you know which firefox version will be included? | 02:22 |
| bjsnider | jbicha, oh, so not much is different then... | 02:24 |
| jimmyxu | Anyone idea of how to add a new keyboard shortcut under GNOME 3? The "+" button in gnome-control-center is grayed out. | 02:25 |
| IdleOne | doesn't gnome3 have a irc channel? | 02:25 |
| jbicha | well 11.10 will be a lot better experience | 02:25 |
| bjsnider | Gulfstream, i heard they're going to do constant updates to the latest version | 02:26 |
| IdleOne | or is Ubuntu meant to support them also | 02:26 |
| jimmyxu | IdleOne: asked, nobody seems to be around :( | 02:26 |
| arand | IdleOne: On irc.gnome.org #gnome, I guess... | 02:26 |
| bjsnider | jimmyxu, they'll be around in business hours | 02:27 |
| IdleOne | arand: go to know where to send folks | 02:27 |
| bjsnider | the #gnome-shell channel on gnome-s irc server | 02:27 |
| Gulfstream | bjsnider, so natty is supposed to have Fx 5 when that comes out? | 02:28 |
| Gulfstream | or is oneiric supposed to have Firefox 6? | 02:30 |
| bjsnider | whatever the latest version is, but i imagine they'll switch the default browser to chromium, so fewer people will use firefox | 02:31 |
| arand | Following that discussion, I'm actually not so sure about that... | 02:32 |
| bjsnider | if they don't do it this cycle, they will soon after | 02:33 |
| Gulfstream | why Chromium? | 02:33 |
| Gulfstream | it is unstable, I thought... | 02:34 |
| SudoKing | faster though! | 02:34 |
| bjsnider | it's faster than firefox by about...a billion times | 02:34 |
| bjsnider | firefox doesn't work very well on linux | 02:34 |
| SudoKing | yea :) but i still like firefox because of the toolbar | 02:34 |
| bjsnider | toolbar? | 02:34 |
| Gulfstream | but what about people with Firefox toolbars? | 02:35 |
| SudoKing | File, Edit, View, History, Bookmarks, Tools, Help | 02:35 |
| bjsnider | menubar | 02:36 |
| bjsnider | what about it? | 02:36 |
| SudoKing | more convenient for me than that wrench icon :) | 02:36 |
| Gulfstream | But how can you get ex-Windows users when they don't see any familiar apps? Mozilla Firefox is used as the most popular browser in many countries | 02:37 |
| bjsnider | seems like one condensed button would technically be more convenient than a bunch of them, but whatever floats your boat | 02:38 |
| arand | chrome isn't too unpopular either.. | 02:38 |
| bjsnider | Gulfstream, no one is coercing anyone into not using fireforks | 02:38 |
| bjsnider | microsoft just ripped off chrome with ie9 | 02:39 |
| Gulfstream | I think Firefox will remain default for Ubuntu | 02:39 |
| Gulfstream | ie9? | 02:39 |
| arand | I can agree that chromium fits Unity, though as far as I could tell, it's not at all sure to happen.. | 02:39 |
| bjsnider | maybe the mozilla foundation could put someone to the task of making firefox work well on linux | 02:39 |
| Gulfstream | Firefox already works well | 02:40 |
| bjsnider | no it does not | 02:40 |
| Gulfstream | really? | 02:40 |
| Gulfstream | the only part I like with Chromium is the voice plugin working very well | 02:41 |
| Gulfstream | but for Adobe Acrobat connect meetings, the plugin only works on Firefox | 02:41 |
| bjsnider | you could load at least 10 chromium windows int he same time as it takes to load one firefox window | 02:41 |
| bjsnider | mozilla focuses their attention on making it work well on windows | 02:41 |
| Gulfstream | but Chromium does work surprisingly better on Mac OS X... | 02:42 |
| bjsnider | apparently firefox in wine is faster than it is natively | 02:42 |
| bjsnider | then there's the theming crap | 02:43 |
| bjsnider | and the fact that everything's in one thread, so you can't kill one tab but keep the window | 02:43 |
| arand | It is somewhat slower, yes, imo, still far better as a browser than chromium, in the same way that it is better than w3m, and afaik, Fx4 has quite a loot of improvements in that area.. | 02:43 |
| bjsnider | arand, what does firefox do better than chrome? it has a less sophisticated layout engine | 02:44 |
| Gulfstream | but i think Ubuntu will stick with Firefox | 02:44 |
| arand | Me personally, it has tabmixplus. | 02:45 |
| Gulfstream | if Ubuntu were to have Chromium by default, what would happen to the Ubuntu PPC users? | 02:48 |
| rww | firefox, presumably | 02:49 |
| Gulfstream | okay | 02:51 |
| Gulfstream | I'm going to test an Oneiric CD now | 02:51 |
| jbicha | Chromium will have the menubar in 11.10; it's part of Chromium 13 I believe | 02:52 |
| bjsnider | i'm using chromium 13 and i don't see a menubar | 02:55 |
| jbicha | about:flags then | 02:59 |
| jbicha | way down at the bottom of the list | 03:00 |
| LLStarks | oneiric is cheerfully broken right now | 03:01 |
| TerminX | that's not too surprising | 03:03 |
| TerminX | I'm still waiting for my install to explode; I hacked my way through an in-place upgrade from i386 to amd64 arch without using debootstrap or chroots or any kind of install/recovery media the other day | 03:06 |
| bjsnider | how did you manage to do that? | 03:09 |
| TerminX | lots of dpkg --force-architecture and usage of busybox-static | 03:10 |
| rww | I'm getting a headache just thinking about this. | 03:10 |
| TerminX | after you get an amd64 kernel booting your existing 32-bit installation you start with the i386 compatibility libc and all its deps, then remove 32-bit libc and install 64-bit libc and cross your fingers ;) from there you have to remove/replace dpkg and apt-get and all of their deps | 03:12 |
| TerminX | and so on and so forth | 03:12 |
| TerminX | I moved the installation from 32-bit to 64-bit hardware previously and since the standard answer to people questioning whether upgrades to different architectures are possible is generally that it's not, I knew I had to do it ;) | 03:14 |
| rww | we say it's not so that people don't attempt to do it. "It is but you need to be on crack to try it" isn't as effective a deterrent. | 03:16 |
| TerminX | yeah, it's not a process I would necessarily recommend to anyone else | 03:17 |
| Gulfstream | looks like my ISOs were all bad. :( | 03:21 |
| Gulfstream | is there an Oneiric ISO that works? | 03:21 |
| TerminX | you would probably be better off installing from a natty iso and upgrading the parts that aren't currently broken afterwards :p | 03:22 |
| rww | this ^ | 03:23 |
| Gulfstream | okay, I'll try that after I install from a natty cd | 03:23 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| ircrob | my vote is for chromium, it has a sandbox for security | 08:38 |
| ircrob | unity + compiz + wayland is the way to go | 08:39 |
| ircrob | keep apt-get to use on console | 08:40 |
| ircrob | gnome apps should only depend on gnome libs | 08:42 |
| ircrob | option to purge plymouth, so can see the boot process | 08:43 |
| === smuxi-user-jtayl is now known as jtaylor | ||
| === evilmist is now known as mrmist | ||
| zniavre | !gnome-core | 09:50 |
| === ghostcube_ is now known as ghostcube | ||
| sony | will we be able to move the launcher in 11.10 | 10:44 |
| === sony is now known as Guest95765 | ||
| Guest95765 | i meant change it's position on the screen, will we be able to do that? | 10:45 |
| Gulfstream | is the rebuild done yet? | 16:13 |
| Gulfstream | looks like it wouldn't affect me, but is Oneiric working fine for someone with the latest updates/upgrade? | 16:15 |
| Gulfstream | I'm going to see what the partial upgrade would do | 16:19 |
| Gulfstream | okay it would remove libpurple0, libgvfscommon0, libperl5.10, and telepathy-haze. These appear to be safe to remove | 16:20 |
| Gulfstream | looks safe to me | 16:23 |
| === hallyn_afk is now known as hallyn | ||
| Gulfstream | could not install/upgrade ca-certificates-java | 17:00 |
| lallenlowe | so is everyone elses gnome-settings-daemon failing to theme controls and colors? or is it just me? | 17:01 |
| Gulfstream | I dunno | 17:03 |
| Gulfstream | for the bug report, should I say it is a security vulnerability since it deals with the ca-certificates-java ? | 17:03 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: what is your problem? I think I had the same one yesterday | 17:05 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: have you updated today? | 17:05 |
| Gulfstream | I just did a partial upgrade | 17:05 |
| lallenlowe | I uninstalled ca-certificates-java yesterday | 17:06 |
| lallenlowe | upgraded today | 17:06 |
| lallenlowe | and reinstalled open jdk | 17:06 |
| lallenlowe | and it set up the certificates just fine | 17:06 |
| Gulfstream | so I should reinstall them? | 17:06 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: it's worth a shot, I think the latest package doesn't break anymore | 17:07 |
| Gulfstream | okay | 17:08 |
| Gulfstream | then I'll reboot. Hopefully it will boot. | 17:08 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: good luck | 17:08 |
| lallenlowe | :P | 17:08 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: wait, one sec | 17:08 |
| Gulfstream | okay | 17:08 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: is your gnome-settings-daemon failing to theme controls and colors also? | 17:08 |
| Gulfstream | I think it was while the upgrade was running | 17:09 |
| Gulfstream | but I don't think it is anymore. What looks weird? | 17:09 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: unity panel, and all window controls | 17:10 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: icons and window decorations are fine | 17:10 |
| Gulfstream | Unity looks OK, the windows decorations look OK, but nautilus looks strange. The search icon is missing | 17:10 |
| Gulfstream | I should probably reboot for it to work | 17:10 |
| lallenlowe | shoot, that means it might just be me | 17:11 |
| Gulfstream | I should reboot and if it looks strange, I'll try to get onto IRC and let you know | 17:11 |
| Gulfstream | lallenlowe, it happened | 17:15 |
| Gulfstream | things are completely messed up | 17:15 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: the theme you mean? | 17:15 |
| Gulfstream | yes | 17:15 |
| lallenlowe | kk | 17:15 |
| lallenlowe | yeah, gnome-settings-daemon is totally ignoring the controls and colors theme | 17:16 |
| lallenlowe | and wallpaper for that matter | 17:16 |
| Gulfstream | yup | 17:16 |
| lallenlowe | I built and installed lp:wallpaper as a temporary workaround, so that it didn't look so confusing | 17:16 |
| Gulfstream | I'll go back to Natty until things get a bit more stable. | 17:18 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: oh, you're not a developer? | 17:19 |
| Gulfstream | lallenlowe, just a curious user | 17:19 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: ah, yeah, wait at least til alpha 1 | 17:19 |
| lallenlowe | for testing | 17:19 |
| Gulfstream | yeah | 17:20 |
| Gulfstream | so should I reinstall all packages or reinstall natty from a CD? | 17:20 |
| lallenlowe | Gulfstream: CD | 17:21 |
| Gulfstream | okay | 17:22 |
| === hallyn is now known as hallyn_afk | ||
| === hallyn_afk is now known as hallyn | ||
| magn3ts | How will one acquire Gnome-Classic for 11.10? | 22:29 |
| IdleOne | magn3ts: they won't | 22:33 |
| BUGabundo | evening | 22:33 |
| magn3ts | IdleOne, what? At all? | 22:33 |
| magn3ts | If there is Gnome-shell, why can't they have gnome classic? | 22:33 |
| IdleOne | support for the classic desktop will be dropped | 22:33 |
| magn3ts | They won't even be able to install it? What about non compositing environments? | 22:33 |
| BUGabundo | 3h long hours to do regular upgrades!!! | 22:33 |
| BUGabundo | WOW | 22:33 |
| IdleOne | magn3ts: I'm sure there will be a way to install it but it won't be installed default | 22:34 |
| magn3ts | IdleOne, I see. | 22:34 |
| magn3ts | Also, what is the point of Unity 2D if Compiz can use noncomposited backends? | 22:34 |
| BUGabundo | I can't even get compiz to work on Classic LOL | 22:36 |
| dusf | someone on a linux channel elsewhere told me that i should use LTS because of all the bugs in ubuntu's 6 month releases, and that i should check this channel out | 22:57 |
| dusf | can anyone explain why? | 22:57 |
| rww | This channel's for pre-release development versions. Seems like the opposite of what they're saying you should use :\ | 22:59 |
| rww | (and personally I'd agree that LTSes are good. no sense updating twice a year, it gets old) | 22:59 |
| dusf | rww: ty | 23:16 |
| jakubo | hi, any news of oneiric pre alpha? | 23:47 |
| jakubo | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview | 23:47 |
| jakubo | its said its possible to get, but it seems not for me... i wonder why... | 23:47 |
| micahg | jakubo: I think that's a rough draft of the alpha 1 release notes, it won't be ready for another few weeks | 23:51 |
| jakubo | ic... | 23:52 |
| IdleOne | you really should not update to pre-alpha | 23:52 |
| jakubo | i did on 10.10 and its still working^^ | 23:52 |
| * micahg would like to, but will wait for update-manager to get the hooks in it | 23:53 | |
| jakubo | sry i meant "from" | 23:53 |
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