[00:37] <Azelphur> MattJ: you about? trying to get prosody to start, but it  keeps saying that it doesn't have permission to read any of the keys in /etc/prosody/certs, even though they are chmod 777'd
[00:37] <MattJ> Part of me is about
[00:37] <MattJ> -_-
[00:37] <Azelphur> some is better than none :D
[00:37] <MattJ> What about the certs directory itself?
[00:38] <MattJ> sudo su prosody touch /etc/prosody/certs/some.cert
[00:38] <MattJ> su isn't needed there, -u
[00:40] <Azelphur> MattJ: yea, that got it :)
[00:48] <Azelphur> MattJ: lol, spectrum is spooky, must have forgotten to copy something, in it's logs it lists my entire contact list so it's obviously connecting, yet I don't sign into MSN :p
[00:49] <MattJ> Yay :)
[01:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Providing More Scalable Community Growth And Mentoring - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/18/providing-more-scalable-community-growth-and-mentoring/
[07:36] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:05] <diplo> Morning all
[08:09] <Apacheuk> morning
[08:14] <Apacheuk> ran across this this morning... trying to ease myself into some work this morning http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-world-map.html
[08:18] <DJones> Morning
[08:38] <hoover> morning all
[08:55] <MooDoo> hello
[08:55] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Feels like the afternoon already. I've been up since 05:21 for some weird reason.
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> Coffee overdose?
[09:11] <siliconmeadow> TheOpenSourcerer: snap
[09:12] <dogmatic69> o/
[09:12] <siliconmeadow> actually it was 5.18 for me
[09:12] <dogmatic69> anyone owned / played with a synology backup thingy
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> I have
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> it works great
[09:12]  * dogmatic69 got one at work this week
[09:12] <dogmatic69> seems awesome
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> it even rsync over the interwebs
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> (there's a big synology wiki on there somewhere with howtos)
[09:13] <dogmatic69> i love raid5 with miss mached HDD's
[09:14] <siliconmeadow> In Lucid and maverick, I could zoom in the whole display by holding ctrl and using the scroll wheel on the mouse. I can't seem to do so in Natty. Any suggestions where to look? Can't seem to find it in keyboard shortcuts or anywhere else.
[09:14] <siliconmeadow> synology's web interface is absolutely stunning, btw
[09:14] <siliconmeadow> DSM 3.2, I think
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> yeah, it rocks
[09:15] <siliconmeadow> i've got a 4-bay one with 4 x 2tb drives in it
[09:15] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: trying to use rhythmbox on it is not great so far
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: Oh I don't use it like that
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I rsync my music collection to it every night, as a backup
[09:15] <dogmatic69> ah ok
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: only things I do put on there directly are videos
[09:16] <dogmatic69> it has done crazyness to my desktop :/
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> how?
[09:16] <siliconmeadow> dogmatic69: I've had success using the synology box as an XMBC source
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> (its SMB support > NFS, because of uid madness)
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> siliconmeadow: it works great as an UPnP/DLNA server for my TV
[09:16] <dogmatic69> you know in nautilis, left menu (drives etc)... its added every folder in the music drive +- 500 :(
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you must have dragged your music to the bookmarks box?
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> or did you mount all music folders separately?
[09:17] <dogmatic69> nope
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> (never seen that before)
[09:17] <dogmatic69> i did rhythmbox -> import folder -> music folder -> add
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> ah yes.
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> Don't do that.
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> That makes gvfs do crazy things.
[09:18] <dogmatic69> things died, dark screen, flashing and smoke... pow
[09:18] <dogmatic69> :(
[09:18] <siliconmeadow> ouch!
[09:18] <dogmatic69> i dont want to right click remove 500 folders
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you don't have to -- gvfs-mount -s smb
[09:19] <siliconmeadow> dogmatic69: symlink it?
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: does that work?
[09:19] <dogmatic69> also it keeps loosing connection doing that
[09:19] <dogmatic69> ^ my way
[09:19] <dogmatic69> i was thinking a link would be better... how would i do that?
[09:20] <wintellect> If I wanted to install a full KDE setup on an Ubuntu install - which apt pkg should I go for?  (and will the KDE option automatically appear in the GDM menu?)
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that won't help, it'll follow the symlink (to the smb mount) and do the same thing it did before
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you could try mounting it using FUSE and cifsfs, so gvfs doesn't pick it up and it looks "local"ish
[09:20] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: so what is it you said? -- gvfs ...
[09:20] <dogmatic69> where do i do that?
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: in a terminal
[09:21] <dogmatic69> just -- gvfs-mount -s smb ?
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: on the machine where you have the 500 Samba shares mounted
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> yes, it means "gvfs-mount --unmount-scheme smb" -> it unmounts everything in the smb:// namespace
[09:21] <dogmatic69> ah
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> (that's used by gvfs, most GTK apps use that)
[09:22] <dogmatic69> --: command not found
[09:22] <dogmatic69> ...
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> don't type the -- :)
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> start with gvfs-mount
[09:22] <dogmatic69> lol
[09:22] <dogmatic69> just figured that part :D
[09:22] <siliconmeadow> wintellect: maybe sudo apt-get kde-full or kde-standard
[09:23] <dogmatic69> 10.10 dont have that
[09:23] <wintellect> siliconmeadow: cool, thanks. What about the GDM thing?
[09:23] <siliconmeadow> wintellect: perhaps try sudo apt-get -s install first
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it doesn't? what does it say?
[09:23] <siliconmeadow> wintellect: I think it will give you the chance to choose the desktop you want when you log in
[09:23] <wintellect> siliconmeadow: sweet. Thanks
[09:23] <oimon> hmm i thought it was apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[09:24] <dogmatic69> missing the -mount thing, busy installing
[09:24] <wintellect> oimon: will that remove Gnome or anything?
[09:24] <oimon> no
[09:24] <siliconmeadow> wintellect: oimon might be right too
[09:24] <wintellect> oimon: ok, thanks
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it's in gvfs-bin
[09:24] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:24] <wintellect> oimon: presumably that will keep GDM and add an option for KDE as siliconmeadow said?
[09:25] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: tx, installed that... ran it (small delay and no output)
[09:25] <dogmatic69> still have million files
[09:25] <oimon> wintellect: yes, in fact it will ask during the apt-get whether you want gdm or kdm
[09:25] <dogmatic69> s/files/folders
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: can you post a screenshot?
[09:25] <wintellect> oimon: perfect, thanks!
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> !screenshot | dogmatic
[09:25] <siliconmeadow> wintellect: if you do an "apt-get show kde-full" you might get some ideas, and then compare it with kde-standard and kubuntu-desktop
[09:25] <wintellect> siliconmeadow: swet! Thanks
[09:26] <wintellect> sweet*
[09:26] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: they were showing the link icon, and after removing one manually they turned to a normal folder icon
[09:27] <siliconmeadow> wintellect: I just did a comparison, and I'd do the kubuntu-desktop like oimon said
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: Please, a screenshot :)
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: (maybe Alt+Prtscr to do a single-window shot)
[09:27] <dogmatic69> oooh...
[09:27] <dogmatic69> nice
[09:28] <wintellect> siliconmeadow: very kind of you to check. Will do - and much appreciated
[09:29] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: screenie coming, figured out how to 'properly' add the music in the mean time, by accident :D
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: "oops"
[09:30] <dogmatic69> there is an icon in rhythmbox for auto found music shares... <3 ubuntu
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> yeah that's the itunes sharing bit
[09:30] <dogmatic69> ye
[09:31] <dogmatic69> its an itunes share thing on synology box
[09:32] <dogmatic69> alt+print screen is not working btw (tried both left and right alt)
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> strange, did you remove the screenshot program?
[09:34] <dogmatic69> not that i know of, print screen works fine for the whole screen
[09:34] <siliconmeadow> dogmatic69, MartijnVdS - I like shuttter, have you seen it?
[09:34] <dogmatic69> idk
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> siliconmeadow: I don't make screenshots THAT often
[09:34] <siliconmeadow> I do several times a day
[09:35] <dogmatic69> i do a few a week
[09:36] <oimon> shutter is a good app for screenshots
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> I do a few a year, max.
[09:38] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: http://oi56.tinypic.com/d648z.jpg
[09:38] <dogmatic69> everything below 'CI server'
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: those are bookmarks
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can edit them out of ~/.gtk-bookmarks
[09:39] <dogmatic69> ah ok
[09:39] <dogmatic69> yey
[09:39] <dogmatic69> that was easy
[09:40] <dogmatic69> thanks
[09:41] <dogmatic69> got 3x google chrome processes using 20% ram :(
[09:41] <dogmatic69> time for a reboot
[09:42] <oimon> or close chrome :)
[09:42] <MartijnVdS> yeah, just restart chrome :)
[09:45] <dogmatic69> o.o http://oi53.tinypic.com/24vog9x.jpg
[09:45] <dogmatic69> 4gigs ram in total
[09:47] <siliconmeadow> http://ubuntuone.com/p/u1n/
[09:47] <dogmatic69> lol
[09:47] <dogmatic69> siliconmeadow: any easy ways to upload, ala pastebinit for images?
[09:48] <siliconmeadow> dogmatic69: CI server? Continuous Integration?
[09:48] <dogmatic69> siliconmeadow: correct, one of them
[09:48] <dogmatic69> jenkins
[09:48] <siliconmeadow> shutter uploads, publishes and then gives me the link
[09:49] <dogmatic69> nice
[09:49] <siliconmeadow> In Maverick, it used to put it straight onto the clipboard for me, but I'm trying to figure out why it doesn't with Natty
[09:50] <siliconmeadow> i have to go to Nautilus and get it from the context menu>Ubuntu One
[09:50] <gord> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13429217 - interesting
[09:52] <JamesTait> Hello people! :D
[10:00] <davmor2> morning all
[10:01] <MooDoo> davmor2: morning matey
[10:01] <bigcalm> 1st panel of today's XKCD is a hoot
[10:02] <davmor2> MooDoo: How's you me old mucka
[10:02]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
[10:03] <MooDoo> davmor2: bored but ok
[10:03]  * MooDoo prods czajkowski too
[10:05]  * czajkowski prods both MooDoo and davmor2 
[10:05] <MooDoo> :)
[10:08] <dogmatic69> http://bellard.org/jslinux/
[10:08] <dogmatic69> anyone seen that?
[10:08] <BigRedS> yeah, I've been fiddling with it this morning
[10:08] <Tommeh> Yeah, not as good as the xkcd one :p
[10:08] <MooDoo> pwd
[10:08] <MooDoo> ls
[10:09] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: is it just a js -> (php/cgi) -> shellexec or something?
[10:09] <BigRedS> AIUI, it's qemu written in JS
[10:09] <BigRedS> essentially
[10:09] <BigRedS> http://bellard.org/jslinux/tech.html
[10:26] <dwatkins> It's a tiny image, and has no networking, but appears to be a working implementation of a virtual machine in javascript.
[10:27] <popey> morning slackers
[10:27] <MooDoo> popey: morning ;)
[10:27] <BigRedS> It does have a helloworld.c and a tiny c compiler
[10:28] <BigRedS> that's all I've been knobbing around with
[10:28] <popey> could you copy/paste code in?
[10:29] <brobostigon> morning popey
[10:29] <BigRedS> popey: not that I've found
[10:29] <BigRedS> er, I've not found a way to
[10:30] <dwatkins> yeah, it's a shame there's no network stack and I imagine serial wouldn't work either.
[10:30] <BigRedS> from discussion elsewhere, I think he's using keypress detection rather than anything that'd cope with a stream of clipboard text
[10:30] <dwatkins> still, pretty good for what it is
[10:31] <BigRedS> yeah, I think it's a fair chunk of awesome
[10:46]  * bigcalm waves from his new connection :)
[10:47] <brobostigon> :)
[10:47] <dwatkins> hooray, hope it speedtests nice and fast, bigcalm
[10:54] <selinuxium> morning all   o/
[10:57] <MooDoo> morning
[10:57] <popey> nice reliable connection bigcalm has there :)
[10:57] <selinuxium> hi popey MooDoo.
[10:58]  * selinuxium is using unity and actually quite liking it... 
[10:58] <selinuxium> Some quirks I could stamp on but... It is just different, not broken...
[11:00] <popey> :)
[11:02] <selinuxium> System Setting under the power button??? Had to have DJones point that one out to me...
[11:02] <gord> y'know, there are a lot of quirks, small bugs, that kind of thing, in unity right now. we know, would be awesome to get some community contributors getting involved though :) could make 11.10 absolutely rock
[11:02] <gord> we had a few very dedicated contributors last cycle, they were awesome
[11:04] <selinuxium> and bigcalm is back!  :)
[11:04] <bigcalm> This is fun
[11:04] <bigcalm> Every time I add a new mac address to get a static IP, the router reboots
[11:04]  * bigcalm sighs
[11:04] <bigcalm> http://twitter.com/bigcalm/statuses/70786775353802752
[11:05] <gord> yes. your life is ssoooooo hard. my router reboots whenever you change *anything* and i get 1.98mbit >:(
[11:05] <selinuxium> I was wondering if there was a tips and tricks with unity page/video somewhere that someone could recommend?
[11:07] <gord> selinuxium, http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014/the-power-users-guide-to-unity
[11:07] <selinuxium> gord you genius! : )
[11:07] <popey> BigRedS: static IP? whywhywhy?
[11:07] <popey> er bigcalm
[11:07] <popey> too many bigs
[11:07] <selinuxium> lol
[11:07] <popey> bigcalm: why not just use hostnames to connect to boxen
[11:08] <gord> big is the new alan
[11:08] <popey> what!? never!
[11:08] <selinuxium> lol
[11:08]  * popey notes nobody is in #big
[11:08] <gord> haha i forgot about your alan channel
[11:08] <popey> yet there are two people (and a bot) in #thealans!
[11:08] <selinuxium> gord: Well that is at least three Alan's offended... :)
[11:09] <popey> don't oppress me!
[11:09] <popey> Alan's are people too!
[11:09]  * bigcalm chuckles
[11:10] <bigcalm> popey: the revo is my dev server, I need to point vhosts at its IP
[11:11] <bigcalm> The wee plastic spanner that came with the hub was pants
[11:11]  * IamAnAlanToo hates static IP... 
[11:12] <bigcalm> popey: also, port forwarding requires an IP address not a named device
[11:12] <popey> ah yes, so true
[11:12]  * IamAnAlanToo also wants to bring the Clue by Two for people how put things in there local hosts file... 
[11:13] <IamAnAlanToo> bigcalm, true   :)
[11:13] <popey> you could hardwire the IP on the boxen rather than the router :)
[11:13] <bigcalm> Sure, lots of ways to do the same thing :)
[11:13] <popey> $ wc -l /etc/hosts
[11:13] <popey> 545 /etc/hosts
[11:13] <popey> :)
[11:13] <IamAnAlanToo> popey, :)
[11:13] <popey> $work
[11:14] <bigcalm> Poop
[11:21] <bigcalm> About the change the wifi channel. What's the betting that the router reboots itself again?
[11:24] <bigcalm> Oh, I am surprised
[11:26] <popey> :)
[11:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone got IE9 and something else on a machine they could check something for me quickly?
[11:36] <selinuxium> I can...
[11:36] <selinuxium> :)
[11:36] <DJones> I can
[11:43]  * bigcalm wishes he didn't
[11:46] <oimon> yay, got my ubuntu kiosk box working :)
[11:47] <dwatkins> nifty, oimon
[11:48] <gord> oimon, now put it somewhere public so nerds can crowd around and try to figure out how to break it
[11:48] <oimon> thinking of putting it in the roof cavity
[11:48] <oimon> keyboard plus alt-f4 will close firefox :(
[11:50] <DJones> oimon: Just break the F4 key, superglue it in the up position so it can't be used
[11:51] <oimon> hehe ...there's no kb attached, so i could break every keyboard in the world
[11:53] <oimon> hmmm maybe i should run with a more basic DE than gnome then...
[11:53] <selinuxium> remap Alt-F4 to do something else..
[11:53] <oimon> mind you , students aren't technically curious nowadays like we used to be :)
[11:54] <DJones> oimon: Come on, be honest, they're still as curious, the first question they'll ask is "Can you get Facebook on it" :)
[11:55] <dwatkins> how about if someone manages to start a softkeyboard, oimon? Just thinking of all the possibilities.
[11:55] <oimon> DJones: they don't care anymore, it's on their idevice
[11:57] <oimon> hmm may need to do a lockdown desktpo
[11:57] <DJones> oimon: Good reply, had to laugh last night, we were supposed to have visitors who cancelled so my wife said it was good and would give her chance to do her college assignment and then she spent the next few hours on facebook
[11:59] <oimon> i overheard a teenager saying it was easy in our day becasuse of no internet...however distraction from revision can take many forms...playing on my SNES or Archimedes, or even tidying my room...maybe the PSN going offline will result in higher results than usual
[11:59] <hamitron> hehe
[12:00] <bigcalm> Somebody care to remind me how to change the default text editor for the CLI?
[12:00] <DJones> oimon: Or for the even older, hunting for food and trying to make fire :)
[12:00] <hamitron> in "our day", computers were not the only thing to life
[12:00] <dwatkins> oimon: I think Chrome OS is fairly locked down, how about using that?
[12:00] <hamitron> ;)
[12:00] <dwatkins> oimon: Archimedes++
[12:02] <oimon> bigcalm: export EDITOR=vim
[12:03] <hamitron> I didn't even realise there was a default editor
[12:03] <hamitron> ;)
[12:03] <oimon> although there might be a newer and better way..
[12:05] <bigcalm> oimon: ta
[12:05] <bigcalm> Can you find out what shell is in use?
[12:06] <bigcalm> ~/.bashrc isn't being run AFAICT
[12:06] <oimon> echo $SHELL
[12:06] <bigcalm> Humm
[12:06] <bigcalm> It is using bash, just seems weird
[12:06] <awoodland> #povray
[12:07] <MooDoo> awoodland: povray ftw!
[12:07] <awoodland> I did that annoying thing where whilst xchat is connecting you start typing something in one channel/server and then it switches focus half way through
[12:08] <oimon> nice password ;)
[12:09] <awoodland> not done that for a while
[12:09] <awoodland> (I don't think?)
[12:10] <awoodland> I was mostly just worried that povray would be OT in here and so would annoy people
[12:14] <dwatkins> bigcalm: bash uses different dot-files depending on whether you're in screen or not, check .profile as well. I need to do some testing to find out which files are actually called at login.
[12:14] <MooDoo> awoodland: don't worry, if it turns out to be OT, there are plenty of people in here that will moan at you ;)
[12:14] <oimon> my .bash_profile has a line which calls .bashrc
[12:15] <oimon> http://pastebin.com/VPPq93hP
[12:15] <bigcalm> dwatkins: it was in .profile. Thanks :)
[12:16] <dwatkins> bigcalm: woot
[12:16] <bigcalm> Gah, the pager was set to more
[12:28] <shauno> I think it's .profile for login shells, and .bashrc for non-login shells (unless it's a non-login shell invoked as /bin/sh ....)
[12:28] <shauno> never understood why :/
[12:30] <daubers> o/
[12:30] <gord> well - i broke the android market. i am sitting in a limbo state where i have and have not purchased an app
[12:36] <oimon> i realised something cool i could use my phone for
[12:36] <daubers> oimon, Speaking to people over a long distance?
[12:36] <MooDoo> oimon: door stop?
[12:36] <oimon> even better..perform an inventory of all my DVD and books using the barcode scanner
[12:38] <oimon> ideally to import into gcstar or tellico
[12:42] <dogmatic69> daubers: talk to people with a phone ?!? wth
[12:47] <daubers> dogmatic69: Am I now "old fashioned"?
[12:48] <dogmatic69> :D
[12:48]  * dogmatic69 buys phones according to the number of axes one the accelerometer
[12:49] <dogmatic69> s/one/on
[12:50] <davmor2> dogmatic69: wow accelerometers with axes isn't that dangerous, I mean that'll ruin your pockets everytime you drop your phone in surely
[12:50] <dogmatic69> ...
[12:51] <dogmatic69> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axes
[12:52] <davmor2> dogmatic69: yes top line on the link ;)
[12:54] <JGJones> oimon there's an app for that! - look up Inventory, works with Barcode scanner.
[12:55] <oimon> JGJones: great, i'll have a look..android app?
[12:55] <JGJones> yeah
[12:55] <oimon> i tried shelves app which is great except some bugs with the bulk scan make it useless for me
[12:56] <JGJones> oimon, no idea how good...I last used it just over a year ago.
[13:04] <oimon> JGJones: which developer please? i see a couple of apps called inventory
[13:08] <JGJones> I can't remember to be honest...been over a year! :) Try the one by XMS Developers
[13:10] <oimon> thats the one i installed :)
[13:13] <gord> =\ whenever some utility opens an editor for you, it should have to label it very very well. fed up of trying to wq inside of nano
[13:13] <popey> :)
[13:21] <oimon> anyone have experience with collection managers in ubuntu? i have a list of UPC /barcodes and none of the programs seem to offer import of barcodes and subsequent search
[14:17] <brobostigon> the queen and the duke of edinburgh, dont seem to like stout. however i am sure the duke of edinburgh was tempted.
[14:24] <davmor2> You can see him slow down saying "Bag me crate I'll swig it down off camera"
[14:25] <brobostigon> yeah, :)
[14:25] <gord> http://acko.net/blog/on-termkit - what happens when osx people design a terminal
[14:29] <oimon> gord: i'm not sure if this is good or bad
[14:29] <BigRedS> I would very much like a syntax-highlighted cat
[14:30] <oimon> i disagree on the usability statements
[14:30] <oimon> it is very usable and unambiguous
[14:30] <BigRedS> it does look like it'll be a worst-of-both mix of gui and cli
[14:30] <oimon> "Additionally, Unix has a habit of giving you raw data, but not telling you useful facts, e.g. 'r-xr-xr-x' instead of "You can't touch this""
[14:30] <oimon> i know which is more useful
[14:31] <BigRedS> unix assumes the user knows what they're doing. That's long been a downside to new people and an advantage to people who know what they're doing
[14:31] <oimon> at some point you need to know what you're doing though
[14:33] <shauno> if that's how osx people design a terminal, how long until we see a barely functional clone in ubuntu ;)
[14:34] <BigRedS> oimon: yeah. And you find out what you're doing by trying
[14:34] <BigRedS> and, once you do, it's quicker to do it the know-what-you're-doing way
[14:34] <BigRedS> hence that being default for forty or so years...
[14:38] <ali1234> gord: i've been asking for a shell like that for years
[14:39] <ali1234> this guy stole my idea
[14:39] <ali1234> almost exactly
[14:39] <gord> mozilla made something that is basically the same 10 years ago
[14:39] <ali1234> really mozilla made a shell where "cat foo.png" displays the image instead of corrupting your shell?
[14:40] <gord> you want to use eog foo.png
[14:40] <ali1234> no i don't
[14:40] <ali1234> i want *any* program that writes raw binary image data to stdout to result in the image being displayed
[14:40] <ali1234> as described in the article
[14:41] <gord> so how would you view binary data in files?
[14:41] <ali1234> the same way nautilus does
[14:42] <gord> here it is: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2000/06/07/xmlterm/index.html
[14:42] <ali1234> if i double click on a file in nautilus it chooses the correct program
[14:42] <shauno> if I actually want to see binary in a stream, it gets piped into hexdump
[14:42] <ali1234> if i cat the same file in shell, it should determine the correct file type, and embed it inline in the shell window
[14:42] <ali1234> yes, exactly
[14:43] <ali1234> hexdump if i want to see the binary
[14:43] <gord> i think what you actually want, is better keyboard controls for nautilus
[14:43] <ali1234> catting a bin direct to the display just messes up the terminal
[14:43] <shauno> I've never actually wanted to dump the entire contents of a binary file to the terminal.  it just makes the term beep a lot, then sit and wait for me to reset it
[14:43] <ali1234> no, i don't want keyboard controlled nautilus
[14:43] <ali1234> that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard of
[14:43] <ali1234> i want a shell with pipes that understands filetypes other than ascii
[14:43] <ali1234> and utf-7
[14:44] <shauno> it seems like an interesting idea, but I'd be very concerned about how much of what I'm used to would break in the process
[14:44] <gord> cat foo.png > ohgodthiswontwork
[14:46] <ali1234> xmlterm seems to do the same thing but requires that all shell programs be made xml aware
[14:46] <ali1234> i don't understand why that is necessary
[14:46] <ali1234> if nautilus can determine filetype without xml junk then so can the shell
[14:46] <shauno> it was 2000.  everything had to be xml aware.  even your fridge.
[14:46] <ali1234> oh yeah i guess
[14:47] <shauno> just like this one's all html5.
[14:48] <ali1234> so is this termkit thing a real program i can download?
[14:50] <ali1234> damn it's os x only
[14:51] <ali1234> someone port it pleeeeeeease
[14:51] <ali1234> hey wait i have a mac right here
[14:52] <ali1234> going to try it
[14:52] <BigRedS> Does there exist a really easy git/svn mirror/gateway thing? I don't branch or anything, but I'd like all my git commmits/pushes to be svn commited to a separate repo
[14:53] <BigRedS> automagically
[14:59] <livingdaylight> greetings
[14:59] <brobostigon> afternoonings livingdaylight :)
[14:59] <livingdaylight> i'm still looking for a laptop!
[15:00] <popey> heh
[15:01] <livingdaylight> Sony Vaio EA3S1 are looking good or Samsung P530.... so many of them the chassis gets so hot! a cool chassis is one of my top criteria, and those two seems possible candidates. Surprised how lenovos let me down on that score
[15:01] <popey> :( Sony
[15:01] <BigRedS> My lenovo's not that hot
[15:01] <BigRedS> I don't know how cool is cool, though
[15:02] <livingdaylight> they definitely range from cool to fry your egg on here
[15:02] <livingdaylight> popey, :( ?
[15:02]  * BigRedS discovers ctrl+alt+numpad in unity
[15:03] <BigRedS> livingdaylight: ooh, different models as different temps, or same ones all over the place?
[15:03] <livingdaylight> not easy finding a laptop that has at least i3 processor, hdmi out, and is cool and quiet
[15:03] <popey> BigRedS: i like middle click on the title bar which is new to me
[15:03] <popey> also CTRL+ALT+S
[15:03] <BigRedS> yeah, I saw that on the lists earlier
[15:04] <BigRedS> c-a-s doesn't do anything for me,though. is that a 3d only thing?
[15:04] <BigRedS> I'm a bit miffed that a rotated screen apparently costs me my 3d
[15:04] <livingdaylight> BigRedS, certain make and models seem to be hot in general whilst others focus on keeping their system as cool as possible. HP's I found to be little ovens on the whole; after I nearly got the g62 i3 for £349
[15:05] <livingdaylight> read interview with RSM in LInux Format where he mentioned what laptop he uses, but forgot name already; slightly more obscure one
[15:06] <livingdaylight> popey, what is the politics of sony vis a vis linux that you frown upon, or is there another reason you object to their machines?
[15:07] <livingdaylight> their E series in 14" are sweet if not on the pricey side; but that aside one of the better ones out there i thought.
[15:08] <ali1234> hmm i just noticed that os x has windicators
[15:08] <kvarley> livingdaylight: Sony treat their customers like dirt, that's why people have objections to their systems. Not because of the systems themselves but because of the ethics which Sony adopt (or lack of)
[15:10] <livingdaylight> kvarley, ok, didn't know that. In fact what one guy told sounded quite the contrary saying that their pick up and return on machines was exemplary
[15:10] <ali1234> unless you installed linux
[15:10] <ali1234> then they won't honour the warranty
[15:11] <livingdaylight> are they the only ones to adopt that attitude?
[15:11] <kvarley> livingdaylight: I have no personal experience of Sony hardware as a computer. I just no they have a terrible record with their games consoles. I was foolish enough to buy one of them, never again.
[15:11] <livingdaylight> hrmm
[15:12] <livingdaylight> i bought an msi cr620 and was bitterly disappointed. The noise it makes was intrusive and distracting; hence decided I rather pay a little more for something I gonna enjoy using
[15:12] <ali1234> msi
[15:13] <ali1234> next time buy a thinkpad
[15:13] <ali1234> does anyone know what this mysterious npm command is? it has something to do with node.js i guess
[15:13] <livingdaylight> they're definitely too pricey, and found that they're all very hot !
[15:20] <popey> livingdaylight: I just don't particularly like the way sony proprietorise everything they touch
[15:21] <popey> livingdaylight: I'd personally buy a thinkpad or a macbook
[15:22] <livingdaylight> popey, ditto. I hate the way they all do that as much as they can. In addition all laptops come with tremendous amount of bloatware and 60-day trials... Welcome to the monetary system... I hope it crumbles soon...
[15:25] <gord> my thinkpad is coming with an install of microsoft office, i didn't pay an extra £200 for the key though
[15:25] <gord> so that will be fun
[15:25] <BigRedS> FWIG, you can just uninstall it
[15:25] <BigRedS> I've never booted mine into the windows install, though
[15:26] <gord> for what its.. erm, girth?
[15:26] <BigRedS> hah
[15:26] <BigRedS> from what I gather
[15:26] <gord> ah
[15:26] <BigRedS> I seem to keep finding myself using non-standard initialisms
[15:27] <BigRedS> I think I must just make them up, and most people just ignore me :)
[15:27] <DJones> gord: My new laptop came with an install of MS Office, had the option of putting in a pre-purchased key, or using the free advert supported version of Word & Excel
[15:27] <livingdaylight> gord, how much was your thinkpad?
[15:28] <BigRedS> DJones: free and add supported? That's a bit scary for the OOo guys
[15:28] <BigRedS> or LO
[15:28] <livingdaylight> I found the lenovo computers above average hot under the chassis which has put me off them for good.
[15:28] <popey> why is heat an issue?
[15:29] <DJones> BigRedS: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/10/microsoft-announces-ad-supported-office-starter-2010.ars
[15:29] <livingdaylight> makes my whole nervous system tingle... makes me very uncomfortable
[15:29] <BigRedS> Mine's warm if I block the air vent, which I frequently do with a knee, but if that's free it's sort-of noticeably warm to the touch but not 'hot'
[15:29] <popey> livingdaylight: what do you do in summer when it's sunny outside?
[15:30] <BigRedS> DJones: Ah, so it's an MS Works replacement, and oe only. that's not quite as worrying
[15:31] <gord> livingdaylight, £821
[15:31] <livingdaylight> popey, the environment and touching or being touched by a hot electronic device, is different. Although, I sometimes jump in a cold bath
[15:31] <popey> ok
[15:31] <gord> heat is an issue when i'm not feeling well at UDS and want to hide in my room watching the office on my laptop in bed ;)
[15:32] <oimon> i've never really noticed problems with hot laptops, maybe that's because i use intel graphics cards
[15:32] <DJones> BigRedS: Yeah, Word & Excel only, but probably for 90% of home users thats all they would want given that you get email with Win 7 anyway, not many home users would want publisher/powerpoint etc
[15:32] <ali1234> nope, my netbook gets super hot
[15:32] <oimon> my eee does too, but that's not a laptop :)
[15:32] <gord> atom netbooks are about as hot as they get
[15:33] <ali1234> any laptop is either going to get hot or it's going to have a loud fan
[15:33] <oimon> sweeet, i managed to get tellico working to show the list of DVDs i own
[15:33] <oimon> looking good
[15:34] <oimon> scanned using the barcode reader of my android phone
[15:36] <ali1234> hmm i wonder what happens if i do 'cat randomfile | xdg-open /dev/stdin'
[15:39] <livingdaylight> Do we like Dell?
[15:39] <livingdaylight> their 15" XPS with dedicated nvidia graphics card looks /sounds good on paper
[15:40] <oimon> wow natty is broken on my eee. classic gnome doesn't use gnome-settings-daemon and looks like win2k, and kde fonts are corrupted :(
[15:43] <ali1234> dell is ok as long as you don't buy their bargain basement stuff
[15:44] <oimon> i find the dell outlet good , especially for purchasing business laptops for home use :D
[15:44] <popey> oimon: known bug
[15:44] <diplo> livingdaylight, my XPS was hot, I preferred Inspiron's
[15:44] <diplo> Had the E5800 range I think
[15:44] <diplo> ran quiet and coolish
[15:44] <popey> bug 649809
[15:45] <ali1234> ah is that why so many people keep getting the "my desktop look slike win2k" bug?
[15:45] <popey> yes
[15:46] <oimon> http://i.imgur.com/H7I0t.png
[15:46] <ali1234> luckily i only reboot about 3 times per cycle
[15:46] <oimon> is the kde fonts problem related?
[15:46] <ali1234> no
[15:46] <ali1234> that's glyph cache corruption
[15:46] <ali1234> it's a bug in your video driver
[15:46] <ali1234> often affects intel
[15:46] <oimon> sounds like a doctor who episode
[15:47] <oimon> not sure if its win2k or XFCE :P
[15:48] <ali1234> so i tried that termkit shell
[15:48] <ali1234> it's quite good
[15:48] <ali1234> but it;s really buggy
[15:48] <oimon> putty natty on this thing was a massive mistake
[15:48] <ali1234> also it doesn't support pipes so it's pointless, i may as well just continue to use nautilus when i need graphical stuff
[15:49] <ali1234> still the idea is good, i hope the guy continues it
[15:53] <ali1234> xdg-open can't work with stdin...
[15:53] <DJones> THis is worrying for from a windows point of view, 1 in 14 downloads is malicious http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/05/17/smartscreen-174-application-reputation-in-ie9.aspx Presumably that also exclude windows updates :)
[15:54] <ali1234> why is it worrying?
[15:54] <DJones> ali1234: Just the volume of malicious software
[15:55] <oimon> reading OMGubuntu lately makes me realise how it could happen on Ubuntu: they are recommending that people download random zipped apps from a website
[15:56] <oimon> ^^ http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/yeoworks-ubuntu-solutions-is-a-handy-tool-kit-for-ubuntu/ not even a ppa
[15:56] <ali1234> their definition of "malware" is anything that isn't commonly downlaoded
[15:58] <ali1234> their little "app rep" warning won't protect anyone from malware
[15:58] <ali1234> it will however block free software developers from shipping software for windows
[16:00] <ali1234> "By following industry best practices, developers can accelerate the process of building     a good reputation. For example, signed programs typically build reputation twice     as fast as unsigned programs. We recommend          digitally signing programs with an Authenticode signature. Making     sure that programs are not detected as malware is clearly important as well. The     Windows Logo     process also helps establish a software publisher’s repu
[16:00] <ali1234> this is what it is really about ^
[16:00] <ali1234> "you better sign your code and get logo certified, otherwise we might tell people your software is a virus"
[16:04] <ali1234> anyway i don't find this worrying at all
[16:04] <ali1234> the high number of malware downloads on windows onl represents how stupid windows users are
[16:04] <ali1234> as long as they don't all start using linux we'll be fine
[16:04] <ali1234> wait...
[16:09] <shauno> heh, oh dear ..
[16:09] <shauno> Eurogamer has seen video evidence that verifies reports that Sony's PlayStation Network password reset system suffers from an exploit that allows attackers to change your password using only your PSN account email and your date of birth V information compromised in the PSN hack of 20th April.
[16:09] <ali1234> ha ha ha
[16:10] <shauno> I wonder if PSN let you change your date of birth
[16:26] <kazade> afternoon
[16:26] <DJones> Hi kazade
[16:28] <DJones> kazade: I was wondering how you were getting on with your twitter client, needed to install one at work & wondered if you'd come across MahTweets on Windows and if there were any ideas in that you could use
[16:33] <kazade> DJones, it's coming along slowly. I've got my minimal feature set almost done but I'm having to rethink how some of the multithreading stuff works
[16:34] <kazade> DJones, are you on 64 bit?
[16:34] <kazade> erm, do you need one for Windows or Ubuntu?
[16:34] <kazade> because the Windows build will be coming later
[16:37] <DJones> kazade: yes I am
[16:37] <DJones> kazade: I like mahtweets on Windows, Its quite like Gwibber in having an "Everything" column for all accounts
[17:05] <ali1234> "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0" - that's a interesting user agent string
[17:05] <ali1234> who is still using such a old mozilla?
[17:05] <Azelphur> oldschool :p
[17:06] <ali1234> log is from this year
[17:06] <ali1234> they don't have flash either
[17:07] <oimon> i used to have some mandrake users who didn't receive updates
[17:07] <oimon> maybe similar situation
[17:07] <oimon> fedora core 3 users :P
[17:07] <ali1234> the website i'm looking at logs for has been successfully viewed (that is, the swf that contains the whole site was downloaded) 3 times in the past 3 months
[17:08] <davmor2> ali1234: I'm guessing some one with an old nokia tablet
[17:08] <ali1234> no, nokia tablets don't report i686 on the user agent string
[17:09] <ali1234> they don't report as firefox either
[17:10] <ali1234> there's certainly no maemo that uses firefox 1.0
[17:10] <ali1234> http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/User-Agent_headers_for_Nokia_devices
[17:11] <DJones> ali1234: http://www.zytrax.com/tech/web/firefox-history.html Maybe that helps, right near the bottom are some Firefox/1.0 entries
[17:17] <davmor2> ali1234: the user agent Mozilla 5.0 bit I got right I was close
[17:18] <ali1234> everything says that
[17:18] <davmor2> ali1234: how about a dapper drake user who thinks the desktop is supported to next month
[17:19] <DJones> Looks like its pre-dapper going on the date on this bug report that seems pretty close https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/28048/comments/92
[17:19] <DJones> Thats dated April/May 2005
[17:35] <jacobw> dapper was probably the best release
[17:36] <Laney> you can still get it
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> hardy was good too, jacobw
[17:37] <jacobw> i know :) i don 't actually want to run it in 2011 though
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> and so was lucid.. all LTSes really
[17:37] <jacobw> ah, i wasn't using ubuntu at the time of hardy
[17:37] <jacobw> only dapper and lucid, dapper impressed me more at the time, probably because of the state of others linuxes at the time
[17:38] <jacobw> before fedora dropped core :|
[17:39] <davmor2> jacobw: Hardy Heron had the best desktop wall paper
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: no, warty did :)
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> (the "naked people" controversy)
[17:40] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: pervert ;)
[17:40] <shauno> \o/ naked people
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: puritan :)
[17:41] <davmor2> haha!
[17:41] <shauno> I still kinda regret moving off 8.06.  Still can't get my head around upstart :(
[17:41]  * davmor2 picks himself up of the floor
[17:42] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19980603
[17:44] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: nice
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> Hah.. http://isamypregnant.com/
[18:03] <popey> haha
[18:03] <bigcalm> Hehehe
[18:04] <bigcalm> function tardis_doesnt_knows() {
[18:05] <bigcalm> Question...
[18:05] <popey> ..How'd you like this knowledge that I brought
[18:05] <popey> are you an independent woman now bigcalm ?
[18:05] <bigcalm> If Matt Smith dies at a 200yo future doctor, does that mean he will be the last of the Time Lords?
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I think it will be fixed by the end of this series/season
[18:06] <shauno> I wondered that myself
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> There must be a perfectly logical explanation :)
[18:06] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I should hope so, just quite an odd thing to put at the begining of the series
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: reddit.com/r/doctorwho if you want wild speculation (spoilers are tagged/hidden by default)
[18:08] <bigcalm> Ta, but I like to live under my rock :)
[18:08] <popey> haha
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: your blue, police box-shaped rock?
[18:12] <jpds> MartijnVdS: Can we just pretend that it's a chair?
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> jpds: you can sit on top of it 8_)
[18:29] <kasztan_85> Hi, I accidentally removed the system accounts in the Accounts manager in ubuntu 11.04. After restarting the server does not start X. You can fix it somehow?
[18:31] <popey> do you have backups?
[18:31] <kasztan_85> popey, no :/
[19:20] <kvarley> using the usb creator on 11.04 64bit to make a 32bit install usb fails as it makes a 64bit kernel with it for some reason ... any ideas?
[19:25] <AlanBell> http://raceonline2012.org should we be involved in this?
[19:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Re-approvals for O-Cycle rules and overview - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/18/re-approvals-for-o-cycle-rules-and-overview/
[19:30] <daubers> evening
[19:30] <mfraz74> daubers: evening
[19:32] <popey> kasztan_85: unetbootin
[19:32] <popey> er
[19:32] <popey> kvarley: unetbootin
[19:32] <popey> sorry kasztan_85
[19:32] <kvarley> popey: Yeah, resorted to that, it's a downside to the usb creator tool?
[19:33] <popey> looks like i
[19:33] <popey> file a bug
[19:33] <popey> Evan is a nice guy
[19:33] <popey> you're not the first to mention this to me this week
[19:34] <kvarley> popey: Hehe, ok
[19:34] <popey> !info usb-creator
[19:34] <popey> meh
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> !info usb-creator-gtk
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> popey: ^
[19:52] <knightwise> hey everyone
[19:52] <BigRedS> Good morning!
[19:57] <daubers> popey: Seen on wifes fb account "Popey passed his kennel club bronze award, I think the examiner was swayed by his good looks", made me giggle
[20:00] <shauno> that termkit thing was worse than I was expecting :?
[20:02] <shauno> piping into grep works .. which is handy because wildcards don't
[20:09] <kvarley> How big should my swap be?
[20:09] <kvarley> I have 1GB of ram
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> just go with what the installer automatically sets
[20:10] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I'm doing a customized partition layout. I have installed ubuntu many times but have never asked that question before lol
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> I have 8G RAM, haven't used swap since I upgraded :)
[20:10] <kvarley> Is it meant to be double the size of your RAM or is that a myth?
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> I think it's a myth
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> mine's the same as RAM
[20:11] <kvarley> But you have 8GB :P
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> but that might break suspend-to-disk if I'm using swap
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> so RAM + A bit
[20:11] <kvarley> Ok thanks :P my normal practice resumes xD
[20:23] <mikeatvillage> Hi :-) I've just installed Ubuntu 11.04 after trying Lubuntu for a week
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> mikeatvillage: do you like it?
[20:24] <mikeatvillage> So far :-)  Unity will not work on my hardware though
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> have you tried unity 2d?
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> it still a bit buggy, but it works
[20:25] <mikeatvillage> No, I'll stick with this for now
[20:26] <SamJ190494> i don't get what all the hate is with unity
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> SamJ190494: it's different!
[20:26] <SamJ190494> if you don't like it, don't use it
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> SamJ190494: that's going to be harder next release (with no "classic" option)
[20:27] <SamJ190494> then let the haters go
[20:27] <SamJ190494> we dont need them
[20:27] <SamJ190494> let them install gentoo
[20:27] <SamJ190494> good riddance
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> Sure, but you can't send them away, can you?
[20:27] <MartijnVdS> they have to go by themselves
[20:30] <knightwise> silly question
[20:30] <knightwise> i"ve just upgraded from 10.10 to 11.04
[20:30] <knightwise> and .. i dont like unity
[20:30] <knightwise> so i log in to "ubuntu classic"
[20:31] <knightwise> but now : No more compiz and stuff ?
[20:31] <knightwise> Howcomez ?
[20:33] <SamJ190494> how do yo mean no more compiz?
[20:34] <knightwise> wel , erm .. no more wobbly windows and stuff
[20:34] <knightwise> i had them working before the upgrade
[20:34] <highvoltage> you still get that
[20:34] <highvoltage> you can configure it from ccsm
[20:34] <knightwise> ccsm ?
[20:34] <gord> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/5608156855/official-uds-o-group-photos-now-available - i'm not in it again :(
[20:34] <SamJ190494> compizconfis settings manager
[20:34] <SamJ190494> *compiz comfgis
[20:34] <SamJ190494> bah forget it
[20:34] <highvoltage> lol
[20:34] <knightwise> ok , i'll check if i have it :)
[20:35] <highvoltage> you'll probably have to install it from software center, it's not installed by default
[20:35] <knightwise> i got it ,
[20:35] <knightwise> just need to reconfigure it and stuff ,
[20:35] <knightwise> i think
[20:38] <gord> also, just to note, Daviey looks like he has been stabbed in that photo
[20:43] <Myrtti> that picture screams for thinglink
[20:47] <Daviey> gord, where's wally?
[20:47] <Daviey> Notice wally is drinking a tea... how terribly british.
[20:55] <SamJ190494> i think there is a driver issue with ati and java
[21:01] <popey> :) daubers
[21:01] <popey> MartijnVdS: ta
[21:01] <popey> kvarley: ubuntu-bug usb-creator-gtk
[21:11] <daubers> Can anyone recommend any books about filesystems in general? Even CS textbooks with chapters about it would help me atm
[21:12] <MartijnVdS> daubers: what problem are you trying to solve? :) or just trying to learn?
[21:13] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Learn and understand :) Also hitting issues at work, and need to understand where they stem from
[21:14] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.nobius.org/~dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf  -- first google hit for "filesystem design" :)
[21:16] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Trying to find a print copy of that :) Can't read for very long on the lappy screen. Makes my eyes go all woogly
[21:16] <daubers> Hence after dead tree stuff :)
[21:16] <MartijnVdS> daubers: it contains a bar code/ISBN inside
[21:17] <daubers> MartijnVdS, Not in print though
[21:17] <MartijnVdS> daubers: Used from £12 on the amazons
[21:17] <daubers> Been trawling ebay for a copy at a reasonable price
[21:18] <MartijnVdS> 20 for a "very good" copy
[21:18] <daubers> Can't use amazon :( They made me sad too often
[21:18] <MartijnVdS> daubers: They're just the middle man -- they don't sell second-hand stuff themselves
[21:18] <jacobw> has anyone experience of setting up mantis bug tracker?
[21:18] <daubers> Also, was hoping for something that would cover b-tree based filesystems, as all the cool kids seem to be heading that way
[21:19] <MartijnVdS> daubers: hang around in #btrfs? :)
[21:19] <daubers> MartijnVdS: That may be so, but they still skim the payment, and I told them to take all my account details off their system :)
[21:24] <daubers> Maybe I should just buy a kindle to read the pdf on
[21:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Macs and Linux - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/136710.html
[21:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] New Blog Theme - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/05/new-blog-theme/
[21:25] <MartijnVdS> daubers: good idea :)
[21:58] <brianb_> can someone tell me if you look at the grub.cfg file should the root entry and intrd point to the same hard drive? if you are multibooting from the ubuntu grub2 bootloader into another distro installed on another partition?
[22:17] <ali1234> daubers: modern operating systems, tanenbaum
[22:18] <daubers> ali1234: Ta :)
[22:18] <ali1234> tanenbaum's stuff is pretty standard
[22:18] <ali1234> it's not the most in depth but it gives you the basics in everything
[22:19] <ali1234> computer networks is also very useful
[22:19] <ali1234> with those two book and k&r you basically have all the information you need to write your own OS
[22:21] <daubers> ali1234: Cool, I'll add them to my ebay watchlist
[22:27] <ali1234> there's loads of cheap copies on ebay
[22:28] <daubers> Yup, ones winging it's way to my front door as we speak
[22:29] <ali1234> pretty much every comp sci student will have at least one tanenbaum book
[22:29] <ali1234> so there's plenty of them floating about
[22:34] <dogmatic69_> anyone know how much work there is in getting the following data with bash...
[22:34] <dogmatic69_> CPU Utilization, Network In, Network Out, Disk Read Bytes, Disk Write Bytes, Disk Read Ops, and Disk Write Ops
[22:36] <ali1234> almost none at all?
[22:36] <ali1234> all that info is available through proc
[22:36] <ali1234> /proc/loadavg
[22:36] <dogmatic69_> would it need to run on a cron, or is it already logged?
[22:37] <ali1234> if you want to log it try using snmp
[22:37] <ali1234> don't do it from cron, that sucks
[22:37] <dogmatic69_> hmm
[22:38] <ali1234> /proc/net/snmp /proc/net/snmp6
[22:38] <dogmatic69_> was hoping to not have dependancies
[22:38] <ali1234> /proc/diskstats
[22:38] <ali1234> i think those 4 cover everything
[22:38] <ali1234> you can do it from cron if you want but that's going to suck
[22:39] <ali1234> better to use a logging daemon
[22:39] <dogmatic69_> how so?
[22:39] <ali1234> cron is heavy if you are running the script a lot
[22:40] <ali1234> depends what you want the logs for though
[22:41] <dogmatic69_> i need to get those details about every 5 or 10 minutes
[22:41] <ali1234> yes but what for
[22:41] <dogmatic69_> depending on how it works
[22:42] <dogmatic69_> pm ok?
[22:42] <ali1234> if you must
[22:44] <shauno> dependencies aren't always a bad thing.  the shoulders of giants is pretty much the unix way.  find the right tools, tie them together to do what you need.  senseless avoiding the right tools just because someone else wrote them
[22:48] <awilkins> Anyone know how to build the alsa-driver package and get the modules installed?
[22:55] <ali1234> awilkins: i did it once, i can't remember how to do it though
[22:55] <awilkins> ali1234, Darn, think I found a bug that's annoying me
[22:56] <awilkins> 'tis in a kernel bit
[22:57] <ali1234> i don't recall it being particularly hard
[22:57] <ali1234> i think you just go in /usr/source/alsa-driver and do configure; make; make install
[22:59] <awilkins> Ah, so you have to install the kernel sources?
[22:59] <awilkins> I have a bzr branch of the alsa-driver package
[23:00] <ali1234> you have to install kernel headers at least
[23:01] <awilkins> ali1234, I think I have those, the folders are there.
[23:01]  * awilkins installs kernel sources
[23:01] <ali1234> !info alsa-driver
[23:01] <ali1234> !info alsa-source
[23:01] <ali1234> install that package ^
[23:02] <ali1234> although alsa-driver is a source package, it "compiles" into a package with source code inside it
[23:02] <ali1234> if you really found a bug in alsa it needs to go upstream anyway
[23:03] <awilkins> Reported upstream
[23:03] <awilkins> But these things have a habit of languishing unless someone tests them
[23:04] <awilkins> So installing the kernel sources gets you a tarball....
[23:05]  * awilkins unpacks
[23:06]  * awilkins copies config from /boot and makes
[23:06] <ali1234> is it fixed in upstream?
[23:07] <ali1234> either way you should use git
[23:07] <ali1234> either cherrypick upstream patch, or make a patch yourself and send it
[23:08] <awilkins> ali1234, Nope, the ALSA kernel tree is the same as the natty alsa-driver sources for this routine
[23:09] <ali1234> but what about mainline? 2.6.39?
[23:10]  * awilkins trying to work it out now
[23:11] <ali1234> git will help you figure this out
[23:11] <awilkins> I have a git clone of linus + alsa
[23:11] <ali1234> ok
[23:11] <awilkins> Current tip of alsa has what I think is the error
[23:12] <awilkins> And it was wrong in Maverick as far as I can see also
[23:12] <ali1234> what i would do
[23:12] <awilkins> But different wrong
[23:12] <ali1234> add the ubuntu kernel git
[23:12] <ali1234> make a patch against alsa
[23:13] <ali1234> cherrypick it to ubuntu natty
[23:13] <ali1234> build a new kernel package
[23:13] <ali1234> send patch to alsa
[23:14] <awilkins> So that's git://kernel.ubuntu.com ?
[23:14] <ali1234> there is a repo for each release
[23:14] <ali1234> add it as a remote
[23:16] <ali1234> git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-natty.git
[23:16] <awilkins> Just got there .. fetching
[23:17] <ali1234> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
[23:18] <awilkins> I really, really need to get on with my stupid idea to write a K/V tree storage frontend for git
[23:18] <awilkins> This is ludicrously powerful (no offense to Bazaar)
[23:18] <ali1234> what does that mean?
[23:18] <ali1234> k/v tree?
[23:18] <awilkins> Key value
[23:18] <ali1234> ok... but what does that mean in practice?
[23:18] <awilkins> I'm on this project that involves distributed content authoring of lots of objects
[23:19] <awilkins> The current version control system is basically RCS but worse
[23:19] <ali1234> git and bazaar are very similar for what i see
[23:19] <mgdm> there was something on Hacker News the other day about how Git is an elaborate NoSQL store, if you squint a bit
[23:19] <ali1234> nosql is just silly, it doesn't really mean anything afaict
[23:19] <awilkins> mgdm, Yeah, it is that really
[23:20] <BigRedS> I tend to treat 'nosql' in much the same way as I treat 'cloud'
[23:20] <awilkins> It's a K/V store itself, stores content on it's SHA1 key
[23:20] <ali1234> yeah
[23:20] <ali1234> so what would this frontend do?
[23:21] <awilkins> What I want to do is a frontend you can version the contents of other KV stores with (by adding a few extra objects to the KV stores and basically making them into a virtual filesystem)
[23:21] <ali1234> git can already pull in from other scm systems
[23:21] <awilkins> You need the tree objects to make it efficient or you'd end up with one big global tree with all the blobs in
[23:24] <awilkins> I've seen people ask if git can be used to version SQL databases and I think the answer there is they are too rigidly structured, but you can add a layer of meta-structure to a KV store that gives it some of the properties of a file system, which is what git needs to work well
[23:24] <awilkins> Was trying to extend jgit to do this, but brain hurts a lot when trying
[23:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Creating An Ubuntu Power User Community - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/18/creating-an-ubuntu-power-user-community/
[23:32] <ali1234> hmm i see
[23:32] <ali1234> yeah you'd have to flatten out the database in a sense
[23:32] <ali1234> into a filesystem
[23:33] <ali1234> which would probably negate the benefits of using tables
[23:33] <Azelphur> OMG youtube is broken
[23:33] <Azelphur> EVERYBODY PANIC.
[23:33] <awilkins> ali1234, The idea is to construct a "folder structure" over the tuples so it can efficiently determine which bits to update and version
[23:34] <Azelphur> oh it's back now.
[23:36] <ali1234> awilkins: yeah so like, a virtual filesystem just for git to pull from, right?
[23:42] <awilkins> ali1234, A VFS for git to check out into
[23:45]  * awilkins wonders if he really needs a 190MB archive of tex documentation to build a kernel