/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/05/19/#ubuntu-community-team.txt

vishTechnoviking: there was actually a discussion about adding a capplet to Control Centre(system settings), with just the Unity plugin options00:07
jcastrohahaha00:07
jcastrotoo bad we can't add things to the control center anymore. :p00:07
vishyea, that was part of the reason why they wanted to have a public api00:08
jcastroseriously someone should just fix simple-ccsm00:09
vishthey dint want simple-ccsm either,  didrocks knows more about that00:10
vishupstream (rodrigo,desrt) did seem to agree to let distros have the option to set whitelists for which ones can appear there, else it would probably be hacked in Ubuntu , we atleast need to get a few of our settings in there00:11
jcastrowell I just mean about having a config tool for it00:11
vishyea, they dismissed that, since that would be a shot-term fix. Eventually Unity options *are* system settings and Ideally we need to have them in one place00:13
vishshort*00:13
vishwould be odd in GNOME3 when everything else is in the control center when the Unity options alone need a separate tool00:14
jonoalright folks00:19
jonoUbuntu Power Users mailing list - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-power-users00:20
popeyooooooh00:21
popeymister jono and his ability to get mailing lists created at the click of his fingers00:21
jono;-)00:21
jonoI think it would be awesome to see a community form around delivering the needs of power users00:21
jonosuch as the ideas I outlined in my blog entry00:22
jonowould be cool to have a range of kitchen-sink configuration packages (e.g. ubuntu-configuration-desktop or something)00:22
jcastrojono: you made the mistake of publishing the list in front of popey00:23
jcastronow it will get shut down!00:24
jonohah00:24
jonolol00:24
jonowapaa!00:24
popeyfar from it00:24
popeyGNNNNNNNN @ ubuntu-users00:26
popeythis guy keeps subscribing under different addresses00:26
popeyposting utter shite00:26
jcastropopey: how did that bikeshed list end up?00:27
popey40 members00:27
popeycompare with 4970 on -users00:28
jcastroI don't really need a config tool00:31
jcastroI need 32px launcher by default and backlight set to toggle.00:31
jcastrothat would make me happy00:31
highvoltageheh, I think I heard jcastro say that like, 30 times at UDS :)00:51
highvoltage(well, at least the 32px part)00:51
jcastrohighvoltage: it's called "default by insurgency"01:07
mhall119jcastro: submit a patch :P01:28
mhall119am I the only one who sees an irony in trying to make Ubuntu easier for power users?01:44
IdleOneeasier how?01:46
mhall119jono gave an example of making an ubuntu-expert-desktop package to automatically install all the necessary customization apps01:47
IdleOneif anything it would be a time saver01:48
IdleOnewill it remove Unity ? :)01:49
mhall119but it all seems based on the notion that "It's too complicated for power users, we need to make it simpler"01:49
mhall119IMO, if they don't know where to find the customization apps and settings, why are we calling them power users?01:50
IdleOnetoo complicated sounds like the opposite of what a power user would think01:50
IdleOneI guess it depends on ones definition of power user01:50
mhall119I guess01:51
IdleOnebut I think simplifying common repetitive tasks is not a bad idea01:51
mhall119I'm good with that01:51
mhall119I like meta packages01:51
mhall119I just don't see a power user being blocked for lack of one01:52
IdleOnemaybe call it ubuntu-semi-expert-desktop01:53
IdleOnefor those who want to move up the ladder01:54
mhall119on the other hand, will a power user want to install a bunch of stuff, or will he want to cherry-pick only what he wants/needs?01:54
IdleOneI prefer to pick and chose but at the same time I appreciate packages like K-E-Xubuntu-desktop01:55
IdleOnemakes things a lot easier from a support point of view.01:55
IdleOnepeople ask how do I install KDE simple answer, just install this one package.01:55
mhall119yeah, I just don't consider those folks power users02:01
mhall119I guess I'm just hung up on the name02:02
mhall119s/power users/tweakers/ and my complaint goes away02:02
doctormovish: Ideally settings of all kinds would have designed interfaces and be carefully considered.02:19
doctormoI simply want to rage against whatever utter pillok thought it was a great idea to pop up that bloody upgrade screen, over and over and over03:02
doctormoUntil users got sick to death with being nagged to upgrade and gave in03:02
doctormo_Another_ unhappy Ubuntu user phones me at 10pm at night panicking because the upgrade has toasted their computer. Rotten Xorg!03:03
doctormoAnd I am unhappy because every time it happens I have to apologise profusely for something that should never have made it into maverick.03:04
IdleOnemhall119: I just read jono's post. I am not sure I like the idea of a ubuntu-experts community, it makes me feel like it would be a separate community of "leet" users. I do like the idea of more configuration tools and I gather jono meant perhaps even all under one application (maybe a nicer/better ccsm). I don't like the idea of splitting the community into power-users and normal-users.06:41
IdleOneWhat makes this community great IMO is that the leet hang out with the not so leet like myself :)06:42
jonoIdleOne, I agree we need plenty of intermingling07:10
jonobut it is important also that Ubuntu is welcome to all07:10
jonoand there is not a perception that Ubuntu is just for newbies07:10
jonoI think we can optimize our community for newbies as well as expert users07:11
nigelbMorning folks!07:12
nigelbDaviey: haha, you englishman! You're holding a cup of tea in the group photo :P07:14
nigelbhttp://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Oneiric/17103699_kzzLF6#1296266345_td259gj-X3-LB07:14
dpmgood morning all!07:16
dpmhey nigelb :)07:24
nigelbhey dpm, good morning!07:24
nigelbMorning ara!07:24
aramorning nigelb, all07:25
dpmgood morning ara07:27
Davieynigelb: :)07:34
nigelbDaviey: I didn't notice it till today, incidentally when drinking tea myself ;)07:34
Davieyheh07:39
dholbachgood morning07:49
nigelbgood morning dholbach :)07:50
dholbachhey nigelb07:50
dpmmorning dholbach08:26
dholbachhey dpm08:27
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kim0morning everyone09:01
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dpmhey kim0, morning!10:15
kim0dpm: hey :)10:15
kim0how's it going10:15
dpmdoing a massive e-mail catch up atm :)10:27
dpmpre- and post-UDS10:27
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mhall119cjohnston: did you forget what I look like?14:09
cjohnstonI went based on where I had seen you.. I didn't actually see you in the picture tho14:21
nigelbcjohnston: he's just ahead of Emmet if that helps.14:39
mhall119I'm all the way on the left, just below the balcony on the side14:44
cjohnston///2615:24
cjohnstonuggh15:24
mhall119need more /'s15:29
nigelblol15:38
nigelbmhall119: About 42 ought to do the trick ;)15:38
jcastroOMG.15:54
jcastrokim0: kim015:54
jcastroI found the problem with the slow alt-tab.15:54
dholbachhey jono15:56
dholbachjcastro, what is it?15:56
jcastrowe set a delay of 2 milliseconds by DEFAULT!!!15:56
jcastro@#$%@#$%15:56
dholbach?15:57
jcastropopup window delay in CCSM in "static switcher"15:57
jonohowdy dholbach15:57
dholbachwhere's that?15:57
popeyuh, yes jcastro15:57
popeyI have pointed this out numerous times15:57
popeyits bonkers15:57
dholbachhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm bliss15:59
jonokim0, nearly ready to get jiggy with the roadmap review?15:59
kim0jcastro: oh! cool15:59
kim0jono: okie15:59
nigelbjcastro: \o/ WIN.15:59
kim0jcastro: 2ms sounds too small to be noticeable16:00
jcastroI just tried it16:00
jcastroit's totally fast now16:00
kim0woohoo cool16:00
nigelbjcastro: bitesize bug on the way? ;)16:01
macoczajkowski: how often do teams get reapproved?16:02
jcastrokim0: lmk how it works out for you (after your call, etc.)16:02
kim0jcastro: so it was pushed already ? cool16:02
czajkowskimaco: ever2 years16:02
macoah ok16:03
czajkowskiwhy16:03
aradpm, which is the blueprint on developer.ubuntu.com? I thought the session was very interesting, and I would like to subscribe16:06
macoczajkowski: i was confused by the blog post...didn't know if my loco was on the list to be reapproved or see a link to whatever group it is you mentioned for the admins16:07
macoer, bug i mean16:07
macobut i think we did it last year16:08
czajkowskijono: morning16:28
czajkowskimaco: aye ye've done16:28
czajkowskijono: is doing a post that will list all 27 teams for this cycle to be approved16:28
paultagpretty pretty please16:28
czajkowskiwe figure putting it on his blog post means more people read it16:28
AlanBellhttp://loco.ubuntu.com/loco-council/approved16:30
jussiwhat, people actually read jono's blog? :P :P16:30
AlanBellwould have been a handy link to have put in the mail16:30
czajkowskiAlanBell: it was once it was clarified it was a mistake to leave out16:31
jonodholbach, just wrapped with kim0, you are next, pal :-)16:31
jonojussi, arsehole :-)16:31
jonoczajkowski, I will get that up today hopefully16:31
czajkowskijono: great sooner the better as we've teams fretting they're being chosen.16:32
czajkowskithanks16:32
jonoczajkowski, I am not sure my blog should be the primary place they find this info - did you post to loco-contacts?16:32
czajkowskijono: yes16:33
czajkowskibut not listed the teams16:33
jonoczajkowski, why not?16:33
jussihehe16:33
jonodholbach, yoohoo?!16:34
czajkowskijono: becase each team contact got a bug mail sent yesterday to them we then mailed loco contacts to let them know that A) someone got the bug and B) re approvals are happening16:34
jonoczajkowski, so what is the purpose of the blog entry?16:34
jonojust visibility on the general process?16:34
czajkowskinot everyone reads the loco contacts list16:35
czajkowskiyes16:35
jonook16:35
jononp16:35
czajkowskithank you16:35
jono:-)16:35
dpmara, on a broadcast atm, let me come back to you in a few minutes with the link16:36
jonoara, you see, the minute he gets into Television, dpm just ignores us little people16:36
jonowe should have seen the signs of this with his perfect hair16:36
czajkowskilol16:37
* jono goes in and trolls dpm's videocast16:41
czajkowskithere are some very strange people in ireland16:41
czajkowskiand I love them and all that16:41
czajkowskihttp://www.tog.ie/2011/05/ubuntu-rocks/16:41
* jono wonders where on earth dholbach went16:43
czajkowskijono: to check out his hair for his tv show clearly16:44
jonolol16:45
jonoso it seems dholbach totally blew me off16:50
jonomaybe he doesn't want to be friends anymore16:50
czajkowskigetting a blow dry16:50
czajkowskijono: did something come of the bug of the wiki and internal server timeouts at UDS16:51
jonoczajkowski, which bug?16:51
jcastroczajkowski: yeah I talked to charlieS16:52
jcastrobasically over the next month they'll be upgrading individual wikis16:52
jcastroand then they will do the main wiki16:52
jcastroas well as move the FS on the machine to ext4.16:52
czajkowskithank FECK!16:52
czajkowskiif I see that error once more I' going to find the server and kick it so hard and install vista on it !16:52
* czajkowski hugs jcastro 16:52
czajkowskijono: bug logged on the fact if you edit the wiki more often than not you get a server error16:53
jcastrothey've been working on it for like months, it's a horrible mess16:53
czajkowskinods16:53
jcastrobut it seems like most of the hard part is over16:53
paultagthis is what we get for using Python16:53
* paultag ducks16:53
* czajkowski looks at the loco council monthly report16:53
paultagbut really, MoinMoin?16:54
czajkowskiit's going to be a fun cycle ahead of us16:54
paultag:)16:54
czajkowski:D16:54
paultagczajkowski: Oh we got this covered :)16:54
paultagczajkowski: I'm super stoked people are already asking for meetings :)16:54
czajkowskipaultag: aye ireland is working on it as a team on saturday on irc16:54
jcastrohe mentioned there's a company that charges for moin -> mediawiki conversion16:54
czajkowskiand in person in dublin16:54
jcastrobut it's expensive16:54
Technovikingmaybe we should make a new wiki with mediawiki and have people transfer data from the Moin wiki they want to it. Would get rid of the uncare for pages quickly.16:58
Technoviking:)16:58
paultagoldwiki.ubuntu16:59
Technovikingjcastro: you run a new dual monitor setup in Unity correct?16:59
jcastrofrom what I understood moving to mediawiki was not completely off the table.16:59
jcastroyeah16:59
Technovikinghow I remove the indicator from the second monitor only. they keep slowly moving off screen17:00
jcastroyou can't. :-/17:00
jcastrothey're supposed to be there by design, the moving off the screen is a bug. :-/17:00
jcastrohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges17:01
jcastroWOO!17:01
TechnovikingUNITY!!!!!!17:01
jcastrolook at those pages BURN!17:01
Technovikingheh17:01
paultagI just switched to KDE :)17:01
paultagI can have my 2 screens again :)17:02
Technovikingpaultag: I'm annoyed with Unity , not insane:)17:02
paultaghehehe17:02
jcastrothe dual indicators just looks dumb17:02
jcastrobut it's actually useful, you never have to mouse too far17:02
* Technoviking feel the screams of a thousand Nixternals17:03
nigelbdpm: Nice job17:06
czajkowskijcastro: wow you're on a mission17:09
czajkowskijcastro: you know that stilll won't fix the wiki though :p17:09
jcastroright, still, plenty of crap to get rid of17:09
czajkowski:D17:09
jcastroI did a lightning talk, but it's not up yet.17:10
nigelbjcastro: darn, that's a lot of deletions17:11
jcastroczajkowski: I am declaring war on bad information17:11
nigelbczajkowski: There is one update on the wiki, not sure if you've seen that17:11
nigelbcharlieS>AlanBell: sorry, a bit stalled due to the main person working on it being out sick (and a high switching cost to have someone else take over). Should resume on Monday.. at which time you'll have a test site to poke at and provide feedback on.17:11
popeyjcastro: i did the same a while back getting rid of old specs17:12
popey17:12
jcastropopey: this time I made everyone commit to deleting at least 5 pages this cycle17:12
jcastroper person17:12
jcastro~600 people in the room17:12
jcastroit's a start17:12
popeydo you put a reason?17:13
popeyor just bin the page?17:13
nigelboh, do you want a list of all the pages in the wiki? it 503's every now and then, but I could get you a static page.17:13
jcastropopey: if it's old crap like warty I don't bother17:13
nigelb(if it loads)17:13
jcastroif it's something that might or might not be useful I leave a note17:14
jcastrolike, there was one for "let's have drinks with Mark at this pub" around breezy time.17:14
jcastroit's like, why keep that around17:14
nigelbhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/NigelBabu/index17:14
jcastropopey: for help.ubuntu.com you can just edit it and add a deletion thing up top17:15
jcastroand the editors will go through them and delete them17:15
popeyi https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges there you go17:15
popeydone my 5 and more17:15
jcastrowe can probably delete everything hardware related and move to the database thing HW cert people are setting up17:15
popey17:15
paultag17:16
jcastropopey: oh, that reminds me17:16
jcastroI'm not really touching newish specs17:16
jcastrosince cjwatson likes to refer to them, etc.17:16
jcastroso when the new wiki is up maybe we can put all specs in one place17:16
jcastroand keep those for historical reasons17:16
czajkowskipaultag: you may regret showing popey those smileys17:17
paultagczajkowski: me? Never!17:18
paultag← woo17:18
dpmthanks nigelb :)17:18
dpmjono, you troll! :P17:18
jonodpm, lol17:18
jono:-)17:18
nigelbheh17:19
dpmara, it was https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-developer-ubuntu-dot-com-plans - I've just subscribed you to it17:21
dpmI need to refine the work items on it tomorrow, though17:21
jcastropopey: this is the easy stuff, when I ask to say, purge all the wireless pages since they're all outdated crap ... that will cause pain.17:23
czajkowskijcastro: much upset you're going to cause :)17:24
* dpm doesn't miss the days in which wireless "just didn't work"17:24
jcastrohttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported17:25
jcastropopey: when I get the video of my lightning talk I will blog about how to methodically get our wikis in shape17:28
jcastroI have ideas!17:28
popeycool17:28
jcastropopey: and Technoviking's working on the forums as well!17:29
popeywhat do you do about au?17:30
popeyis there an 'obsolete' tag?17:30
jcastrono, you just delete it17:30
jcastroor update it17:30
jcastrobasically, the same as you would with a wiki17:31
popeynice17:33
jcastrojono: we go in 30 minutes right?17:33
jcastroTechnoviking: hey remember how you mentioned a "this post is useful" button for the forums?17:34
jonojcastro, yep17:40
popeyhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/35488/list-of-custom-launchers-quicklists-for-unity is awesome!17:46
Technovikingjcastro: yes, I hope to add it in the forums upgrade17:57
jonojcastro, all set?17:59
jcastrojono: 2 minutes please!17:59
jonojcastro, np17:59
Technovikingjcastro: hope to add this with a Rate post 1-10 opinion http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23329618:00
dpmok, time to call it a day, see you all tomorrow!18:00
doctormoNightime already18:00
jcastrojono: ok all set!18:02
nigelbpopey: Indeed. \o/18:26
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JFojono, my house is jumpin' ;)19:18
JFothe neighbor came over and asked me what I was listening to. :-)19:19
jcastroJFo: don't forget I need that forum thread feedback from your team to give to Mike19:19
jcastroJFo: I got sconklin's already19:20
jonoJFo, nice!19:20
JFojcastro, yep, pete sent out a mail about it19:20
jcastrota19:20
JFojono, older guy. I asked him if it was too loud and he said "nah, if it get s too loud, then I'm too old."19:20
JFoI was floored19:20
jonohaha19:20
JFohe knew it was a Humble Pie song though19:21
JFo30 Days in the Hole on the Live... WIth a Little Help From Our Friends album19:21
doctormojono: Get my email last night?19:21
jonodoctormo, yep19:24
jcastrocaffeine break, bbiab20:12
nigelbJFo: You hit the nail on the head. The problem about fixing Lp bugs is learning to write the tests20:17
nigelbJFo: After 4 days, now I can say, I have "some" idea.20:17
jonoTechnoviking, can you config that list so we don't get emailed when someone joins?20:17
jonoI thought I had fixed it20:17
JFonigelb, :)20:20
nigelbJFo: But its a seriously good feeling though :-)20:21
JFoinded20:22
Technovikingjono: will do21:09
paultagI guess21:12
paultagOh, I missed the ":"21:12
=== Technovi1ing is now known as Technoviking
mhall119that's okay, he missed a pronoun and a subject21:18
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=== Guest95889 is now known as Braiam
jcastropopey: jono_21:52
jcastrohttp://blip.tv/ubuntu-developers/ubuntu-uds-o-budapest-friday-plenary-lightning-talks-518294421:52
jcastroFFWD to 22:4521:52
jono_jcastro, awesome, thanks21:52
jono_on the eng. mgrs. call now, will check it soon21:53
jono_jcastro, http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/19/building-the-kitchen-sink/21:53
jono_just posted this while on the call21:53
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popeyjcastro: awesome talk dude121:58
popey!21:58
popeyDELETE!21:58
doctormojcastro: good talk. Can I delete 5 wiki pages too?22:05
jcastroor 50!22:06
doctormojono_: You could probably take gconf info and build a good ui around the majority of options.22:08
doctormoIt just needs some hard assumptions.22:08
jono_doctormo, indeed22:09
doctormojcastro: We can only delete pages in the wiki and not the guide? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_linuxwacom_driver needs to go.22:09
jcastrofor help.ubuntu.com you need to add a delete tag22:10
jcastroand the wiki editor team will review it22:10
jcastro<<Include(Tag/Deletion)>>22:11
jcastrojust add that at the top22:11
doctormook, thanks22:11
jcastroand for edit reason leave a note22:11
jcastrohttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecentChanges22:32
jcastroI don't know who Connor Imes is, but he's my hero22:32
popeywow, awesome!22:48
popeyi am going to mention your talk on the podcast next week22:48
popeytry to get more people deleting content22:49
jcastropopey: do you have the creds of the youtube account?22:49
popeyi think so, yes22:49
popeyone mo22:49
jcastropopey: can you mark the licenses on the UDS-O videos?22:51
jcastrothe online youtube editor says I can edit it if the license is set to CC22:52
popeyjono_: i logged in to the ubuntu developers youtube account, i forced me to link it to a google account and defaulted to yours22:52
popeyso i did that22:52
popeyjono@ubuntu.com22:52
popeyyou will probably get a mail about it22:52
jcastrohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cxs9OHIBcs22:52
jcastrothis one specifically22:52
* AlanBell can see a problem with a huge "please delete our content" call to the internetz22:52
jcastroso I can edit out an individual video22:52
popeyi see no license option22:53
jcastroAlanBell: not the internet22:53
jcastrojust within the project22:53
jcastroso I can send users to the wiki with confidence22:53
jcastroas opposed to like "don't read that crap, you'll just break your computer"22:54
* AlanBell is glad to hear the podcast is not on the internet22:54
jono_thanks popey22:54
AlanBelluupc has I think a fairly constructive listenerbase so I am sure it will be fine22:55
popeywe do!?22:55
popeythere is no license option in youtube that i can see22:55
AlanBellwell I listen, and I can't imagine many other people do :)22:55
jcastropopey: hmm, the editor tells me it can't edit the video due to the license not being CC22:56
jcastroalso, everyone should really see Randall's talk at around 11:15: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cxs9OHIBcs22:56
popeyi reckon it gets it from blip22:58
popeyyou can set the license there22:58
popeyyay, remembered the ubuntudevlopers blip password22:59
popeyjcastro: in blip that video was set to "public domain"23:00
popeyi set it to cc-by-sa23:01
popeydunno if that will filter down to yt tho :S23:01
jcastrough23:01
jcastrothe guys set them all to PD instead of CCBYSA23:01
popeythats the default to be fair23:01
macojcastro: where are yall moving again?23:02
jcastroboca raton23:03
cjohnstonjcastro needs to hurry up and get down here23:11
cjohnstonjcastro: you need to get certified to dive while your here and we will go diving23:11
jcastroman openshot is SOOOO good23:59

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