[00:07] Technoviking: there was actually a discussion about adding a capplet to Control Centre(system settings), with just the Unity plugin options [00:07] hahaha [00:07] too bad we can't add things to the control center anymore. :p [00:08] yea, that was part of the reason why they wanted to have a public api [00:09] seriously someone should just fix simple-ccsm [00:10] they dint want simple-ccsm either, didrocks knows more about that [00:11] upstream (rodrigo,desrt) did seem to agree to let distros have the option to set whitelists for which ones can appear there, else it would probably be hacked in Ubuntu , we atleast need to get a few of our settings in there [00:11] well I just mean about having a config tool for it [00:13] yea, they dismissed that, since that would be a shot-term fix. Eventually Unity options *are* system settings and Ideally we need to have them in one place [00:13] short* [00:14] would be odd in GNOME3 when everything else is in the control center when the Unity options alone need a separate tool [00:19] alright folks [00:20] Ubuntu Power Users mailing list - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-power-users [00:21] ooooooh [00:21] mister jono and his ability to get mailing lists created at the click of his fingers [00:21] ;-) [00:21] I think it would be awesome to see a community form around delivering the needs of power users [00:22] such as the ideas I outlined in my blog entry [00:22] would be cool to have a range of kitchen-sink configuration packages (e.g. ubuntu-configuration-desktop or something) [00:23] jono: you made the mistake of publishing the list in front of popey [00:24] now it will get shut down! [00:24] hah [00:24] lol [00:24] wapaa! [00:24] far from it [00:26] GNNNNNNNN @ ubuntu-users [00:26] this guy keeps subscribing under different addresses [00:26] posting utter shite [00:27] popey: how did that bikeshed list end up? [00:27] 40 members [00:28] compare with 4970 on -users [00:31] I don't really need a config tool [00:31] I need 32px launcher by default and backlight set to toggle. [00:31] that would make me happy [00:51] heh, I think I heard jcastro say that like, 30 times at UDS :) [00:51] (well, at least the 32px part) [01:07] highvoltage: it's called "default by insurgency" [01:28] jcastro: submit a patch :P [01:44] am I the only one who sees an irony in trying to make Ubuntu easier for power users? [01:46] easier how? [01:47] jono gave an example of making an ubuntu-expert-desktop package to automatically install all the necessary customization apps [01:48] if anything it would be a time saver [01:49] will it remove Unity ? :) [01:49] but it all seems based on the notion that "It's too complicated for power users, we need to make it simpler" [01:50] IMO, if they don't know where to find the customization apps and settings, why are we calling them power users? [01:50] too complicated sounds like the opposite of what a power user would think [01:50] I guess it depends on ones definition of power user [01:51] I guess [01:51] but I think simplifying common repetitive tasks is not a bad idea [01:51] I'm good with that [01:51] I like meta packages [01:52] I just don't see a power user being blocked for lack of one [01:53] maybe call it ubuntu-semi-expert-desktop [01:54] for those who want to move up the ladder [01:54] on the other hand, will a power user want to install a bunch of stuff, or will he want to cherry-pick only what he wants/needs? [01:55] I prefer to pick and chose but at the same time I appreciate packages like K-E-Xubuntu-desktop [01:55] makes things a lot easier from a support point of view. [01:55] people ask how do I install KDE simple answer, just install this one package. [02:01] yeah, I just don't consider those folks power users [02:02] I guess I'm just hung up on the name [02:02] s/power users/tweakers/ and my complaint goes away [02:19] vish: Ideally settings of all kinds would have designed interfaces and be carefully considered. [03:02] I simply want to rage against whatever utter pillok thought it was a great idea to pop up that bloody upgrade screen, over and over and over [03:02] Until users got sick to death with being nagged to upgrade and gave in [03:03] _Another_ unhappy Ubuntu user phones me at 10pm at night panicking because the upgrade has toasted their computer. Rotten Xorg! [03:04] And I am unhappy because every time it happens I have to apologise profusely for something that should never have made it into maverick. [06:41] mhall119: I just read jono's post. I am not sure I like the idea of a ubuntu-experts community, it makes me feel like it would be a separate community of "leet" users. I do like the idea of more configuration tools and I gather jono meant perhaps even all under one application (maybe a nicer/better ccsm). I don't like the idea of splitting the community into power-users and normal-users. [06:42] What makes this community great IMO is that the leet hang out with the not so leet like myself :) [07:10] IdleOne, I agree we need plenty of intermingling [07:10] but it is important also that Ubuntu is welcome to all [07:10] and there is not a perception that Ubuntu is just for newbies [07:11] I think we can optimize our community for newbies as well as expert users [07:12] Morning folks! [07:14] Daviey: haha, you englishman! You're holding a cup of tea in the group photo :P [07:14] http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Oneiric/17103699_kzzLF6#1296266345_td259gj-X3-LB [07:16] good morning all! [07:24] hey nigelb :) [07:24] hey dpm, good morning! [07:24] Morning ara! [07:25] morning nigelb, all [07:27] good morning ara [07:34] nigelb: :) [07:34] Daviey: I didn't notice it till today, incidentally when drinking tea myself ;) [07:39] heh [07:49] good morning [07:50] good morning dholbach :) [07:50] hey nigelb [08:26] morning dholbach [08:27] hey dpm === ara_ is now known as ara [09:01] morning everyone === daker_ is now known as daker [10:15] hey kim0, morning! [10:15] dpm: hey :) [10:15] how's it going [10:27] doing a massive e-mail catch up atm :) [10:27] pre- and post-UDS === daker_ is now known as daker [14:09] cjohnston: did you forget what I look like? [14:21] I went based on where I had seen you.. I didn't actually see you in the picture tho [14:39] cjohnston: he's just ahead of Emmet if that helps. [14:44] I'm all the way on the left, just below the balcony on the side [15:24] ///26 [15:24] uggh [15:29] need more /'s [15:38] lol [15:38] mhall119: About 42 ought to do the trick ;) [15:54] OMG. [15:54] kim0: kim0 [15:54] I found the problem with the slow alt-tab. [15:56] hey jono [15:56] jcastro, what is it? [15:56] we set a delay of 2 milliseconds by DEFAULT!!! [15:56] @#$%@#$% [15:57] ? [15:57] popup window delay in CCSM in "static switcher" [15:57] howdy dholbach [15:57] where's that? [15:57] uh, yes jcastro [15:57] I have pointed this out numerous times [15:57] its bonkers [15:59] hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm bliss [15:59] kim0, nearly ready to get jiggy with the roadmap review? [15:59] jcastro: oh! cool [15:59] jono: okie [15:59] jcastro: \o/ WIN. [16:00] jcastro: 2ms sounds too small to be noticeable [16:00] I just tried it [16:00] it's totally fast now [16:00] woohoo cool [16:01] jcastro: bitesize bug on the way? ;) [16:02] czajkowski: how often do teams get reapproved? [16:02] kim0: lmk how it works out for you (after your call, etc.) [16:02] jcastro: so it was pushed already ? cool [16:02] maco: ever2 years [16:03] ah ok [16:03] why [16:06] dpm, which is the blueprint on developer.ubuntu.com? I thought the session was very interesting, and I would like to subscribe [16:07] czajkowski: i was confused by the blog post...didn't know if my loco was on the list to be reapproved or see a link to whatever group it is you mentioned for the admins [16:07] er, bug i mean [16:08] but i think we did it last year [16:28] jono: morning [16:28] maco: aye ye've done [16:28] jono: is doing a post that will list all 27 teams for this cycle to be approved [16:28] pretty pretty please [16:28] we figure putting it on his blog post means more people read it [16:30] http://loco.ubuntu.com/loco-council/approved [16:30] what, people actually read jono's blog? :P :P [16:30] would have been a handy link to have put in the mail [16:31] AlanBell: it was once it was clarified it was a mistake to leave out [16:31] dholbach, just wrapped with kim0, you are next, pal :-) [16:31] jussi, arsehole :-) [16:31] czajkowski, I will get that up today hopefully [16:32] jono: great sooner the better as we've teams fretting they're being chosen. [16:32] thanks [16:32] czajkowski, I am not sure my blog should be the primary place they find this info - did you post to loco-contacts? [16:33] jono: yes [16:33] but not listed the teams [16:33] czajkowski, why not? [16:33] hehe [16:34] dholbach, yoohoo?! [16:34] jono: becase each team contact got a bug mail sent yesterday to them we then mailed loco contacts to let them know that A) someone got the bug and B) re approvals are happening [16:34] czajkowski, so what is the purpose of the blog entry? [16:34] just visibility on the general process? [16:35] not everyone reads the loco contacts list [16:35] yes [16:35] ok [16:35] np [16:35] thank you [16:35] :-) [16:36] ara, on a broadcast atm, let me come back to you in a few minutes with the link [16:36] ara, you see, the minute he gets into Television, dpm just ignores us little people [16:36] we should have seen the signs of this with his perfect hair [16:37] lol [16:41] * jono goes in and trolls dpm's videocast [16:41] there are some very strange people in ireland [16:41] and I love them and all that [16:41] http://www.tog.ie/2011/05/ubuntu-rocks/ [16:43] * jono wonders where on earth dholbach went [16:44] jono: to check out his hair for his tv show clearly [16:45] lol [16:50] so it seems dholbach totally blew me off [16:50] maybe he doesn't want to be friends anymore [16:50] getting a blow dry [16:51] jono: did something come of the bug of the wiki and internal server timeouts at UDS [16:51] czajkowski, which bug? [16:52] czajkowski: yeah I talked to charlieS [16:52] basically over the next month they'll be upgrading individual wikis [16:52] and then they will do the main wiki [16:52] as well as move the FS on the machine to ext4. [16:52] thank FECK! [16:52] if I see that error once more I' going to find the server and kick it so hard and install vista on it ! [16:52] * czajkowski hugs jcastro [16:53] jono: bug logged on the fact if you edit the wiki more often than not you get a server error [16:53] they've been working on it for like months, it's a horrible mess [16:53] nods [16:53] but it seems like most of the hard part is over [16:53] this is what we get for using Python [16:53] * paultag ducks [16:53] * czajkowski looks at the loco council monthly report [16:54] but really, MoinMoin? [16:54] it's going to be a fun cycle ahead of us [16:54] :) [16:54] :D [16:54] czajkowski: Oh we got this covered :) [16:54] czajkowski: I'm super stoked people are already asking for meetings :) [16:54] paultag: aye ireland is working on it as a team on saturday on irc [16:54] he mentioned there's a company that charges for moin -> mediawiki conversion [16:54] and in person in dublin [16:54] but it's expensive [16:58] maybe we should make a new wiki with mediawiki and have people transfer data from the Moin wiki they want to it. Would get rid of the uncare for pages quickly. [16:58] :) [16:59] oldwiki.ubuntu [16:59] jcastro: you run a new dual monitor setup in Unity correct? [16:59] from what I understood moving to mediawiki was not completely off the table. [16:59] yeah [17:00] how I remove the indicator from the second monitor only. they keep slowly moving off screen [17:00] you can't. :-/ [17:00] they're supposed to be there by design, the moving off the screen is a bug. :-/ [17:01] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges [17:01] WOO! [17:01] UNITY!!!!!! [17:01] look at those pages BURN! [17:01] heh [17:01] I just switched to KDE :) [17:02] I can have my 2 screens again :) [17:02] paultag: I'm annoyed with Unity , not insane:) [17:02] hehehe [17:02] the dual indicators just looks dumb [17:02] but it's actually useful, you never have to mouse too far [17:03] * Technoviking feel the screams of a thousand Nixternals [17:06] dpm: Nice job [17:09] jcastro: wow you're on a mission [17:09] jcastro: you know that stilll won't fix the wiki though :p [17:09] right, still, plenty of crap to get rid of [17:09] :D [17:10] I did a lightning talk, but it's not up yet. [17:11] jcastro: darn, that's a lot of deletions [17:11] czajkowski: I am declaring war on bad information [17:11] czajkowski: There is one update on the wiki, not sure if you've seen that [17:11] charlieS>AlanBell: sorry, a bit stalled due to the main person working on it being out sick (and a high switching cost to have someone else take over). Should resume on Monday.. at which time you'll have a test site to poke at and provide feedback on. [17:12] jcastro: i did the same a while back getting rid of old specs [17:12] ☺ [17:12] popey: this time I made everyone commit to deleting at least 5 pages this cycle [17:12] per person [17:12] ~600 people in the room [17:12] it's a start [17:13] do you put a reason? [17:13] or just bin the page? [17:13] oh, do you want a list of all the pages in the wiki? it 503's every now and then, but I could get you a static page. [17:13] popey: if it's old crap like warty I don't bother [17:13] (if it loads) [17:14] if it's something that might or might not be useful I leave a note [17:14] like, there was one for "let's have drinks with Mark at this pub" around breezy time. [17:14] it's like, why keep that around [17:14] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NigelBabu/index [17:15] popey: for help.ubuntu.com you can just edit it and add a deletion thing up top [17:15] and the editors will go through them and delete them [17:15] i https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges there you go [17:15] done my 5 and more [17:15] we can probably delete everything hardware related and move to the database thing HW cert people are setting up [17:15] ☺ [17:16] ♥ [17:16] popey: oh, that reminds me [17:16] I'm not really touching newish specs [17:16] since cjwatson likes to refer to them, etc. [17:16] so when the new wiki is up maybe we can put all specs in one place [17:16] and keep those for historical reasons [17:17] paultag: you may regret showing popey those smileys [17:18] czajkowski: me? Never! [17:18] ← woo [17:18] thanks nigelb :) [17:18] jono, you troll! :P [17:18] dpm, lol [17:18] :-) [17:19] heh [17:21] ara, it was https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-developer-ubuntu-dot-com-plans - I've just subscribed you to it [17:21] I need to refine the work items on it tomorrow, though [17:23] popey: this is the easy stuff, when I ask to say, purge all the wireless pages since they're all outdated crap ... that will cause pain. [17:24] jcastro: much upset you're going to cause :) [17:24] * dpm doesn't miss the days in which wireless "just didn't work" [17:25] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported [17:28] popey: when I get the video of my lightning talk I will blog about how to methodically get our wikis in shape [17:28] I have ideas! [17:28] cool [17:29] popey: and Technoviking's working on the forums as well! [17:30] what do you do about au? [17:30] is there an 'obsolete' tag? [17:30] no, you just delete it [17:30] or update it [17:31] basically, the same as you would with a wiki [17:33] nice [17:33] jono: we go in 30 minutes right? [17:34] Technoviking: hey remember how you mentioned a "this post is useful" button for the forums? [17:40] jcastro, yep [17:46] http://askubuntu.com/questions/35488/list-of-custom-launchers-quicklists-for-unity is awesome! [17:57] jcastro: yes, I hope to add it in the forums upgrade [17:59] jcastro, all set? [17:59] jono: 2 minutes please! [17:59] jcastro, np [18:00] jcastro: hope to add this with a Rate post 1-10 opinion http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=233296 [18:00] ok, time to call it a day, see you all tomorrow! [18:00] Nightime already [18:02] jono: ok all set! [18:26] popey: Indeed. \o/ === daker is now known as daker_ [19:18] jono, my house is jumpin' ;) [19:19] the neighbor came over and asked me what I was listening to. :-) [19:19] JFo: don't forget I need that forum thread feedback from your team to give to Mike [19:20] JFo: I got sconklin's already [19:20] JFo, nice! [19:20] jcastro, yep, pete sent out a mail about it [19:20] ta [19:20] jono, older guy. I asked him if it was too loud and he said "nah, if it get s too loud, then I'm too old." [19:20] I was floored [19:20] haha [19:21] he knew it was a Humble Pie song though [19:21] 30 Days in the Hole on the Live... WIth a Little Help From Our Friends album [19:21] jono: Get my email last night? [19:24] doctormo, yep [20:12] caffeine break, bbiab [20:17] JFo: You hit the nail on the head. The problem about fixing Lp bugs is learning to write the tests [20:17] JFo: After 4 days, now I can say, I have "some" idea. [20:17] Technoviking, can you config that list so we don't get emailed when someone joins? [20:17] I thought I had fixed it [20:20] nigelb, :) [20:21] JFo: But its a seriously good feeling though :-) [20:22] inded [21:09] jono: will do [21:12] I guess [21:12] Oh, I missed the ":" === Technovi1ing is now known as Technoviking [21:18] that's okay, he missed a pronoun and a subject === braiam is now known as Exio- === Exio- is now known as Braiam === Braiam is now known as Exio- === Exio- is now known as Guest95889 === Guest95889 is now known as Braiam [21:52] popey: jono_ [21:52] http://blip.tv/ubuntu-developers/ubuntu-uds-o-budapest-friday-plenary-lightning-talks-5182944 [21:52] FFWD to 22:45 [21:52] jcastro, awesome, thanks [21:53] on the eng. mgrs. call now, will check it soon [21:53] jcastro, http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/19/building-the-kitchen-sink/ [21:53] just posted this while on the call === salgado is now known as salgado-afk [21:58] jcastro: awesome talk dude1 [21:58] ! [21:58] DELETE! [22:05] jcastro: good talk. Can I delete 5 wiki pages too? [22:06] or 50! [22:08] jono_: You could probably take gconf info and build a good ui around the majority of options. [22:08] It just needs some hard assumptions. [22:09] doctormo, indeed [22:09] jcastro: We can only delete pages in the wiki and not the guide? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_linuxwacom_driver needs to go. [22:10] for help.ubuntu.com you need to add a delete tag [22:10] and the wiki editor team will review it [22:11] <> [22:11] just add that at the top [22:11] ok, thanks [22:11] and for edit reason leave a note [22:32] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecentChanges [22:32] I don't know who Connor Imes is, but he's my hero [22:48] wow, awesome! [22:48] i am going to mention your talk on the podcast next week [22:49] try to get more people deleting content [22:49] popey: do you have the creds of the youtube account? [22:49] i think so, yes [22:49] one mo [22:51] popey: can you mark the licenses on the UDS-O videos? [22:52] the online youtube editor says I can edit it if the license is set to CC [22:52] jono_: i logged in to the ubuntu developers youtube account, i forced me to link it to a google account and defaulted to yours [22:52] so i did that [22:52] jono@ubuntu.com [22:52] you will probably get a mail about it [22:52] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cxs9OHIBcs [22:52] this one specifically [22:52] * AlanBell can see a problem with a huge "please delete our content" call to the internetz [22:52] so I can edit out an individual video [22:53] i see no license option [22:53] AlanBell: not the internet [22:53] just within the project [22:53] so I can send users to the wiki with confidence [22:54] as opposed to like "don't read that crap, you'll just break your computer" [22:54] * AlanBell is glad to hear the podcast is not on the internet [22:54] thanks popey [22:55] uupc has I think a fairly constructive listenerbase so I am sure it will be fine [22:55] we do!? [22:55] there is no license option in youtube that i can see [22:55] well I listen, and I can't imagine many other people do :) [22:56] popey: hmm, the editor tells me it can't edit the video due to the license not being CC [22:56] also, everyone should really see Randall's talk at around 11:15: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cxs9OHIBcs [22:58] i reckon it gets it from blip [22:58] you can set the license there [22:59] yay, remembered the ubuntudevlopers blip password [23:00] jcastro: in blip that video was set to "public domain" [23:01] i set it to cc-by-sa [23:01] dunno if that will filter down to yt tho :S [23:01] ugh [23:01] the guys set them all to PD instead of CCBYSA [23:01] thats the default to be fair [23:02] jcastro: where are yall moving again? [23:03] boca raton [23:11] jcastro needs to hurry up and get down here [23:11] jcastro: you need to get certified to dive while your here and we will go diving [23:59] man openshot is SOOOO good