[00:00] gosh, it is tomorrow already [00:00] the end is nigh ;) [00:00] back in the early days of unity i had to stress test something or other, but basically it involved opening xeyes fullscreen on my netbook for a few seconds, closing it and repeating. automated of course. still, very freaky after a few hours === merriam_ is now known as merriam [00:03] gord: someone should have done an xeyes version of the mdz picture [00:13] ugh. a friend's had their wordpress hacked & asking for advise. not sure what to tell them past "nuke the site from orbit" [00:15] ideally export the content, reinstall from bare metal and reimport and keep the thing updated [00:16] it's pretty sneaky. the site looks fine, unless you visit with googlebot's user-agent [00:16] otherwise backup, wipe, install latest version, restore the config file with the database passwords and the wp-content directory, having checked it for uploaded stuff [00:16] yeah, then full of links? [00:18] yeah. appears as a blog dedicated to canadian viagra if you're google [00:19] quite successfully too. it's the top google result for her name + viagra lol [00:19] that is probably cleanable [00:19] shauno: got it working, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-20-234911_1461x476_scrot.png :) [00:21] nice :) [00:22] so you're gonna take over the world while everyone's busy watching the rapture? [00:22] something like that, I forgot we are supposed to be dead now [00:22] I'm alive, yay. [00:24] I should head to bed, but I'm poised ready to invade china :/ [00:25] [Jono Bacon] Rocking The LoCo Community In Oneiric - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/20/rocking-the-loco-community-in-oneiric/ [00:25] haha [00:25] jono is being rather prolific on the ol' blogosphere lately [00:27] hmm, so the plan for 200,000,000 users is organic growth done by the loco teams [00:31] 200,000,000. [00:31] 835 members of ~ubuntu-uk [00:32] that's... 239,520.958 each! [00:33] haha [00:33] ~locoteams 18353 members worldwide [00:34] 10,897.401 — that's more like it [00:34] yeah, we can do that === lubotu3` is now known as lubotu3 [00:35] night all [00:36] let's work this out [00:37] 2.95192682% of the world's population (as of 2009) [00:38] applied to the uk's population, that's 18,254.1705 [00:38] which is only 21.86 each! [00:45] haha [01:12] Laney: it's almost like that time the RIAA sued limewire for a little under the collective wealth of the planet [01:25] [Dominic Watkins] Automating APOD - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/05/20/automating-apod/ [02:40] discovered I turn into a stereotypical american when I play civ :/ so close to a cultural victory, but I don't want to waste all the nukes I made .. [02:43] so you secretly sold some off to some 3rd world bananna republics ? [03:14] ati cards still suck on linux :( [03:14] hdmi output doesn't work properly with fglrx [03:14] everything is all flickery on vga [04:03] this I never understood. half of you say ati cards suck, the other half say nvidia suck. so we're stuck with intel integrated? [04:09] no because everyone says intel suck [06:17] ging: no, intel rocks [06:17] Intel and ATi are the best choices atm, as both have well-supported Free drivers [06:19] well how come my old pc could never come out of suspend mode? [06:19] there you have it: old. [06:20] I haven't had problems with suspend (and/or Intel) since about hardy-ish [06:20] I haven't had a problem with suspend since I quit using linux on laptops *duck* [06:20] shauno: 8-) [06:22] * Looking up localhost:10002 [06:22] * Unknown host. Maybe you misspelled it? [06:22] *sigh* [06:23] messed up your /etc/hosts? [06:23] nope. stupid client is just stupid [06:23] aren't clients always like that [06:23] oh wait that's customers [06:23] (irc client;) [06:40] thought I'd be clever and forward to irssi-proxy over ssh tunnels [06:40] turns out gui irc clients all blow chunks [06:46] ORLY [06:48] yarly. [09:10] Someone has asked me to put Ubuntu on their computer for general surfing and such [09:10] pondering what version to give them [09:11] intel 945, 2GB RAM [09:12] was thinking 10.04 but actually Unity should work fine on this [09:12] 60GB disk [09:18] I'd be tempted to try it too. It's going to be completely unfamiliar to them anyway [09:18] yeah, that's what I'm thinking [09:18] why make them learn 'the old way' just to be yanked onto 'the new way' at some indeterminate point in the future [09:18] I should make some notes about this. [09:18] 11.04 and then try out unity, unity-2d, classic gnome [09:19] I suspect unity3d will work fine on this [09:19] its a dell inspiron 6400 [09:19] yeah, should be fine [09:19] it'd be interesting to see how someone actually reacts to unity with little to no preconceived notions going in [09:19] yeah [09:19] but guinea pigs aside, I think it'd be the wiser choice going forward either way [09:19] I am going over for an hour or so tomorrow to hand over / introduce [09:20] if it goes well I'll probably upgrade my mums PC to natty too [09:20] and going to give her a bigger screen too [09:20] "With this bigger screen you get a new UI" [09:20] my kids are using natty [09:20] "oh, ok" [09:20] is how that will go [09:21] her revo should run natty okay [09:21] that's pretty much how my mom went on linux. her single complaint, "why is the start button at the top". click, drag. to the bottom. "oh, ok". [09:26] yeah, shame on Natty the BFB is so useless [09:27] I don't get why the top level menu of the bfb isn't the categories in the Applications menu [09:31] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/PCForFriend [09:32] haha popey [09:33] gonna mail the list too [09:34] good morning everyone, [09:36] Morning [09:37] morning daubers [09:38] ello [09:41] * daubers makes a cuppa [09:42] it's starting to feel like I should have tried sleeping instead of playing civ all night :( [09:42] * Laney has a nice cuppa lapsang souchong [09:44] shauno: Which Civ? Civ V is aces as is IV [09:44] 5 :) [09:44] * hamitron likes civnet [09:44] never had 4 or 5 [09:44] :/ [09:45] never was a fan of 1, liked 2, never tried 3, hated 4 just because of what they did to colonization :/ [09:45] I never got into 2, but my comp of the time was underpowered [09:45] :) [09:45] V makes my laptop really toasty [09:45] hmmm, toast [09:45] :/ [09:46] yeah. the fan on mine gets really quite loud if you zoom out [09:46] which unfortunately some of the city views do for you :/ [09:46] I wouldn't mind getting civ5, only they seem to release things so often [09:47] get as much $$$ outta ya as they can [09:48] prob worth it for someone who plays that particular game a lot more than I would [09:50] to be honest, I only got civ5 because I got a shiney new laptop, and had a handful of 4-5yo games to play on it [09:51] :D [09:51] so I got civ5, and then portal2 a couple of weeks later. then realised I'd spend e100 on games in one month, and felt bad [09:51] do people still play freeciv? [09:52] some do ☺ [09:52] never tried it. I do play freecol when I get really bored tho [09:52] i have a friend who does [09:52] (colonization was always much better than civ ;) [09:52] shauno: what is different? [09:53] a lot more micromanagement I guess [10:00] morning [10:00] GM [10:00] getting my Adroid gingerbread upgrade this morning [10:01] which phone? [10:03] hmm, really should get round to finishing portal1 [10:07] Searching for Unity features/bugs on google is annoying [10:07] there are apparently 2 other things with that name (at least) [10:07] MartijnVdS: why search there [10:07] how about ask ubuntu for features and lp for bugs [10:07] czajkowski: because the wiki search sucks [10:07] czajkowski: so does launchpad search [10:07] askubuntu ? [10:07] Never used it. [10:07] Google always worked before. [10:08] handy lens you can install on unity [10:08] search from dekstop [10:08] handy [10:08] but I have my browser open 99% of the time [10:08] so why would I need that? [10:08] ok [10:09] the Search interface in unity is broken/annoying as well, so I don't use it. [10:09] I'm sure you filed a bug then [10:10] czajkowski: Nah, it'll probably get closed with "This is how the design team wants it, quiet, you peon" [10:10] MartijnVdS, htc desire hd [10:10] on 3network [10:10] MartijnVdS: do you have any idea how annoying it is to hear people give out about thigns, but tell them to file a bug and then they wont they rather just give out [10:11] czajkowski: I'm not annoyed by search being bad, because I never use it _anyway_ [10:11] fine [10:11] I hope we get swype back on gingerbread [10:14] I gotta admit, I find it more annoying the other way around. it used to be that people would help you figure a problem out. now they'll just let you languish in bugzilla [10:14] shauno: yeah launchpad is a bit of a place where bugs go to die. [10:14] (or live forever) [10:14] so triage stuff [10:15] AlanBell: can't triage my own bugs [10:15] true, but you can triage other peoples [10:15] and you can look after your own bug a bit [10:15] So their bugs get fixed and mine don't? :P [10:15] of ffs [10:15] I give up [10:15] providing information, finding people to confirm it etc [10:17] MartijnVdS: and other people will fix your bugs and you fix theirs [10:17] AlanBell: I've been reporting bugs since Warty (back when it was bugzilla), most have been closed "Not a bug" or "Oh we fixed that weeks ago and forgot to tell you" [10:18] AlanBell: that doesn't help motivation. [10:18] yeah, I do agree it is easy to become a bit jaded when dealing with launchpad [10:18] Especially the unity bugs last cycle, that all got closed "Wontfix, design team override" [10:19] and difficult bugs in general where the right people don't have the broken hardware [10:19] yeah, that as well [10:19] for instance every core i3 laptop has had a broken VGA port for over a year [10:19] (I have this tuning issue that even the devs on the dvb mailing list cry about..) [10:20] popey: did you order that DVB->USB box you linked to a few weeks back? [10:22] so in Unity is there a way to navigate my installed applications by the categories I am used to? [10:23] so if I used to click Applications-graphics-gimp how do I do that in unity? [10:23] AlanBell: BFB -> More applications -> top right of the black overlay [10:24] eww, ugly grey dropdown [10:24] ok [10:25] personally when I click the bfb I want a big friendly icon for each category which takes me to a page with just that category [10:27] AlanBell, yeah the grey dropdown was a running out of time thing, sorry [10:27] and universal access doesn't show me orca and onboard (both installed) but shows me a load of other stuff for download [10:28] we can only show things that a, want to be shown and b, have the right categories, unfortunately. sometimes things are out of our hands [10:29] understood, any idea where I fix it? [10:29] the .desktop file for the applications normally [10:29] right, ok [10:31] my android been upgraded to version 2.36.405.8 [10:45] is there a sensible way to get thunderbird to check for new mail in all folders? [11:21] Good morning kids :) [11:21] 'lo bob [11:24] Bob? [11:25] don't make me link you to weebl & bob. it's 2011 already :p [11:25] don't worry bigcalm - i have no idea what he's on about either :) [11:25] i think its better that way [11:26] :) [11:30] shauno: there was no context to hint that you were making a Weebl reference. I still need coffee as well [11:34] you're right, there wasn't. I get just bored of 'howdy' sometimes [12:17] gord: how do I find (and slap) the person who did this? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/view/head:/debian/patches/01_disable_menu_icons.patch [12:18] AlanBell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/revision/26 ? [12:18] AlanBell: "View revisions to this file" [12:18] AlanBell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/changes?filter_file_id=01_disable_menu_icon-20100414061233-bk6cf6sdsaty3jr8-1 [12:18] I think that is just who synced it from Debian [12:19] AlanBell: go upstream then? [12:19] AlanBell: Luke Yelavich (themuso) did it [12:19] huh, Luke did it O_o [12:19] "To bring it in line with other assistive technologies, or something" [12:19] s/, or something/", or something [12:20] * awilkins is stuck at his daughters ballet class surrounded by screaming kids and people talking about bring stuff. [12:20] boring, not bring [12:20] haha [12:21] I just left daughters ballet class :D [12:21] * awilkins feels he'd score much higher on the Asberger's quiz right now... [12:21] popey: You linked to an ebay auction for a DVB-S2 receiver a few weeks ago. Did you end up ordering it? [12:21] lol [12:21] no MartijnVdS [12:21] popey: ok, because mine still has a flakey driver :) [12:22] (and the kernel people say it's not a bug, or something.. or at least that the available patch isn't correct) [12:22] These things are pretty simple, mostly aren't they [12:22] Well, in principle [12:22] I get the impression they all present themselves as a network adapter [12:23] AlanBell: DVB cards? No.. they're special. [12:23] uhr [12:23] awilkins: [12:23] awilkins: DVB is its own subsystem [12:23] Yes, but when I plug them into Windows they have a MAC address and everything [12:23] awilkins: ah sure, but that's Windows :) [12:24] All cards work in Windows (they have drivers) [12:24] Which is why I gain the impression that the hardware is abstracted as a network interface [12:24] https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/244201/ [12:24] awilkins: but it's not :) It contains a network bit (for IP-over-DVB reception: satellite internet) [12:24] awilkins: but that's about it [12:25] Only really mucked about with MythTV and the userland tools [12:26] And the last time I had to actually do anything was years ago.. the drivers on the hardware I've got work ok. [12:26] yeah usually it does [12:26] but this revision of the chipset is weird. Or something [12:26] Morning popey. I've been sent a new 'welcome to vm' letter. Did that happen when you upgraded? [12:27] Heh, they do that, totally revise the internals of the card, call it by the same model number, but totally different hardware inside [12:27] yes [12:27] popey: ignore it or call them up? [12:27] I must get onto VM at some point and review my current bill / service ratio [12:28] awilkins: No the card is fine -- it's just that one of the chips works slightly differently in the batch that I have [12:28] I'm comfy enough on 10MBit/s but I'm sure they are probably overcharging me for it [12:28] AlanBell, yeah a few apps have done that, i'm working my way through convincing the desktop guys to revert all that stuff [12:31] Dammit, should have brought my PSU, apparently tethering the phone sucks charge like a McD's milkshake [12:32] hehe, prize for worst analogy of the day goes to awilkins and its only midday! [12:32] gord: yeah, the "decluttering" argument (which doesn't have much merit at the best of times) is totally invalidated by including icons for stuff you don't even have installed [12:33] it would be better to not have onboard on the CD and then it would be more discoverable! [12:36] * awilkins has left his earplug/phones at home and has to cope with the gossipings of working class Northern mothers without 45dB attenuation or distraction. Curses. [12:42] Don't suppose anyone can link me to some pretty pictures of the internal design of RCS / CVS [12:46] The project I'm working on apparently has a version control design demonstrable worse than systems released 38 years ago. *sob* [12:53] bigcalm: I havent opened it ☺ [12:53] AlanBell: what does that patch do? [12:54] wow, paid aircondirect for next day delivery, 2 days ago, say they won't get my item to me till monday and won't refund [12:54] probably gonna raise paypal dispute on this one [12:54] hahaha aircodirect [12:54] I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole [12:54] noted :P [12:54] http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2008/08/27/dont-shop-with-laptops-direct-unless-you-enjoy-marketing-email-and-a-hard-sell/ [12:54] same people [12:55] nice [12:55] their marketing guy replied on that thread [12:57] popey: I've opened mine at it is a new contract to sign :| [13:00] erk [13:01] also, someone has setup @popeydishwasher [13:02] oh I had war with them [13:03] evil horrible place to buy laptop from them [13:03] HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE [13:04] http://www.lczajkowski.com/tag/laptopsdirect/ [13:05] popey: gt a gifgaff sim [13:06] any idea how I get to port over my O2 number to it ? [13:06] call O2 ☺ [13:06] ah as simple as that [13:06] grand [13:06] thanks [13:06] wondered who I had to tell [13:07] o2 will give you a PAC number [13:07] czajkowski: http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/599/session/L3NpZC9XSDZyYnVoaw%3D%3D [13:07] popey: it hides onboard from the unity menu [13:07] that needs a better url [13:08] popey: and the regular gnome menu too [13:08] i thought it just hid the icon [13:08] it does [13:09] click the applications lens, use the dropdown in the top right (that doesn't look much like a dropdown) to select universal access and it just shows you stuff you don't have and hides the stuff you do have [13:10] dutchie: cheers [13:12] czajkowski: np [13:30] Anyone know about A/C's reckon this will do a small room with 8 computers in it? http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Air-Conditioners/buy-PROLINE-CL220-Air-Conditioner/371211 [13:33] Azelphur: Just normal PCs? [13:33] Azelphur: With monitors? High end or just normal? And are there people in there? [13:34] penguin42: GPU cluster, so high spec graphics cards at 100% but no monitors and no people [13:35] Azelphur: OK, so what do you reckon each computer is drawing? 500W ? [13:35] that sounds about right, yes [13:35] hopefully a bit lower than that, 500w is worst case [13:35] Azelphur: OK, so 8*500=4kW l that says it has 2.4kW cooling capacity (and that's normally based on a room with humans in - so probably 2kW or a bit less for mostly computers) [13:36] so no, it won't do it [13:36] ok [13:37] so i need a 4kw unit xD [13:37] Azelphur: Well, a bit more than 4kW if it's designed to cool a room with 4kW of mostly humans in; humans give off hot warm liquid that's easier to cool [13:38] Azelphur: The other thing with that is I'm assuming it's one that has a water tank that will need regularly emptying [13:38] i would have thought computers dont give off heat at a 1:1 ratio of power usage? [13:38] Azelphur: Where else would you expect the power to go? [13:38] no its not a swamp cooler? :p [13:39] to be used in the computer? [13:39] Azelphur: And then what happens to it? [13:39] and then its used? o.o [13:39] Azelphur: *all* power that goes in ends up as heat [13:39] i see [13:39] Azelphur: (The light from the LEDs and the sound of the fans even end up as heat when they are absorbed by the walls) [13:40] fun [13:40] there is a TINY information theoretic usage from reordering information into information with erm is it more? entropy that uses some of the energy [13:40] i see [13:42] hmm thinking about it I think it's working on something to produce something with less entropy that would use energy? But heck that's above my physics knowledge without reading it up again [13:42] lol [13:44] Azelphur: In the UK it's easy; you measure computer energy use in kWh, they put out kW of heat and you measure aircon in kw cooled; in the US however their computers take kW of energy, they measure heat output in BTU and cooling capacity in tonnes (of ice) [13:46] but btu means british something unit [13:46] thermal [13:47] Azelphur: You're actually better with say 3 of those 2kW coolers than one 4kW unit; first they're fairly cheap and secondly when one fails (which it will) you won't suddenly burn it out [13:47] cool [13:48] Azelphur: I bet they use about 1kW for every 2kW cooled though! [13:48] haha its not quite that bad [13:49] Azelphur: There is another way [13:49] yea? [13:49] Azelphur: You can get rid of some of the heat by using fans just to blow the heat from the back of the machines straight out of the window [13:50] of course, the cops will think your running a cannabis farm but still [13:50] yea, i figured theyd think that anyway [13:51] Azelphur: If you can organise an airflow to get the exhause fans straight outside it'll save a LOT of cooling [13:51] interesting [13:51] like a wind tunnel with the computers in it? [13:52] with some big desk fans to keep thins moving, ghetto style? :D [13:52] Azelphur: The data centre design for cooling is really hairy [13:53] yea? [13:53] yeh; try reading some of the way Facebook do it oin their public data centre design [13:54] cool, will do :D [13:54] * penguin42 used to keep a room with about 25kw in it going [14:02] penguin42: fun :p [14:02] Penmy brothers getting right miffed about it and saying that a 2kw unit will do it [14:03] penguin42: * [14:03] penguin42: he also says that you can't use energy twice (once for the computer, and twice for heat) lol [14:04] Azelphur: Correct; the answer to that is that there are two lumps of energy; the original energy that goes in to the computer and produces the heat, and the 2nd energy that's used to move the other energy and that's the nergey that goes into the aircon [14:04] I see :P [14:05] * hamitron is using wind power for cooling [14:05] Azelphur: IMHO it's a bit nuts to have 2kW of compute power at home :-) [14:05] I know :) [14:06] penguin42: 4kw :p [14:06] there is no debate on that, we know he is nuts ;) [14:06] Azelphur: In the winter it'll work well if you spread them out and use them as heaters - then you don't need the cooling [14:06] hehe [14:06] they are a bit noisy for that [14:06] seriously [14:06] penguin42 is right, computer heating ftw [14:07] penguin42: so basically I have 2 rows of 4 computers with a GPU in each [14:07] reckon I can just build tunnels out of cardboard [14:07] and stick some desk fans and point it out the window? [14:07] Azelphur: Surely this isn't worth it once all the costs are taken into account? [14:08] penguin42: we'll see, I already have the computers it's just cooling now :) [14:08] Azelphur: Certainly tunneling it out of the window will help, I might go for something a bit more punchy than desk fans [14:08] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110520_150522.jpg [14:08] what would you recommend? [14:08] 300 PSI compressor [14:08] ;) [14:09] :p [14:09] Azelphur: You can get some chunky floor fns - big 40/50cm things [14:09] prob blow the gpu over :/ [14:10] Azelphur: And seriously keep an eye on the temperature - if you've not got airflow in/out of windows then you could hit 40c in there if your aircon stops [14:10] penguin42: the fans I have are pretty close, 30cm [14:10] yea, temp monitoring is always a must [14:10] I thought the tunneling mitigated the need for aircon? [14:10] it helps a lot [14:11] but I'm not sure how much and how to quantify it; I've never tried it myself, just read about doing that [14:11] but can we mitigate the need for it altogether? :p [14:11] haha [14:11] unplug the comps? [14:11] ;) [14:11] all the stuff I've done is with air con units [14:11] I see [14:12] imo, you should use A/C for the room, then possibly 2 floor fans to move the hot air away from the mobo [14:12] easiest [14:12] yea, so definitely gonna want an A/C [14:12] so start with http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Air-Conditioners/buy-PROLINE-CL220-Air-Conditioner/371211+ tunnels and keep an eye on the temps? [14:13] I'd actually go with trying to duct as much of the heat out as possible - if nothing else it'll save you measureable aircon costs [14:13] suppose an extractor fan on the window, with an intake at the other side of the room maybe.... [14:13] Azelphur: When you do this please keep room temp graphs; I'd love to see them as you add each extra machine [14:13] :D [14:13] don't have any room temp sensors :( [14:13] only card sensors :p [14:13] "each extra machine" <-- he is gonna prob plug everything in and hit the switch [14:14] :/ [14:14] ^ that too [14:14] hamitron: It'll make bunsfield look tame [14:14] bunsfield? [14:14] penguin42: so do you think buying that aircon unit and ducting all the mobos straight out to the window is the best course of action to start? [14:14] and see how it goes [14:15] Azelphur: Get yourself one of the ~£10 plug in energy monitors to see how much one machine actually uses when it's running [14:15] I have one [14:15] that's how I knew the 500w figure was accurate :) [14:15] 500w!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [14:15] wtf is it? [14:15] (although I'd like to get that way down, I havn't optimized anything yet) [14:15] hamitron: And he has 8 of them [14:15] yeh, but 500W for a comp seems a lot [14:15] hamitron: that's the 6990 overclocked with the memory hiked up too [14:16] oh [14:16] I mean the power for the nodes wtih the 5870 [14:16] really plenty of optimization to be done there [14:16] yea, they arn't out of the boxes yet [14:16] Azelphur: It might be worth doing the maths of whether the overclocking is worth it; the compute power probably goes up slower than the energy/heat [14:16] penguin42: but yea, do I go to the shop now and buy that A/C or not? :P [14:16]