[00:00] <AlanBell> gosh, it is tomorrow already
[00:00] <shauno> the end is nigh ;)
[00:00] <gord> back in the early days of unity i had to stress test something or other, but basically it involved opening xeyes fullscreen on my netbook for a few seconds, closing it and repeating. automated of course. still, very freaky after a few hours
[00:03] <AlanBell> gord: someone should have done an xeyes version of the mdz picture
[00:13] <shauno> ugh.  a friend's had their wordpress hacked & asking for advise.  not sure what to tell them past "nuke the site from orbit"
[00:15] <AlanBell> ideally export the content, reinstall from bare metal and reimport and keep the thing updated
[00:16] <shauno> it's pretty sneaky.  the site looks fine, unless you visit with googlebot's user-agent
[00:16] <AlanBell> otherwise backup, wipe, install latest version, restore the config file with the database passwords and the wp-content directory, having checked it for uploaded stuff
[00:16] <AlanBell> yeah, then full of links?
[00:18] <shauno> yeah.  appears as a blog dedicated to canadian viagra if you're google
[00:19] <shauno> quite successfully too.  it's the top google result for her name + viagra  lol
[00:19] <AlanBell> that is probably cleanable
[00:19] <Azelphur> shauno: got it working, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/May%202011/2011-05-20-234911_1461x476_scrot.png :)
[00:21] <shauno> nice :)
[00:22] <shauno> so you're gonna take over the world while everyone's busy watching the rapture?
[00:22] <Azelphur> something like that, I forgot we are supposed to be dead now
[00:22] <Azelphur> I'm alive, yay.
[00:24] <shauno> I should head to bed, but I'm poised ready to invade china :/
[00:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Rocking The LoCo Community In Oneiric - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/20/rocking-the-loco-community-in-oneiric/
[00:25] <Azelphur> haha
[00:25] <Laney> jono is being rather prolific on the ol' blogosphere lately
[00:27] <AlanBell> hmm, so the plan for 200,000,000 users is organic growth done by the loco teams
[00:31] <Laney> 200,000,000.
[00:31] <Laney> 835 members of ~ubuntu-uk
[00:32] <Laney> that's... 239,520.958 each!
[00:33] <Azelphur> haha
[00:33] <AlanBell> ~locoteams 18353 members worldwide
[00:34] <Laney> 10,897.401 — that's more like it
[00:34] <AlanBell> yeah, we can do that
[00:35] <AlanBell> night all
[00:36] <Laney> let's work this out
[00:37] <Laney> 2.95192682% of the world's population (as of 2009)
[00:38] <Laney> applied to the uk's population, that's 18,254.1705
[00:38] <Laney> which is only 21.86 each!
[00:45] <Azelphur> haha
[01:12] <Azelphur> Laney: it's almost like that time the RIAA sued limewire for a little under the collective wealth of the planet
[01:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Automating APOD - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/05/20/automating-apod/
[02:40] <shauno> discovered I turn into a stereotypical american when I play civ  :/  so close to a cultural victory, but I don't want to waste all the nukes I made ..
[02:43] <ging> so you secretly sold some off to some 3rd world bananna republics ?
[03:14] <ali1234> ati cards still suck on linux :(
[03:14] <ali1234> hdmi output doesn't work properly with fglrx
[03:14] <ali1234> everything is all flickery on vga
[04:03] <shauno> this I never understood.  half of you say ati cards suck, the other half say nvidia suck.  so we're stuck with intel integrated?
[04:09] <ging> no because everyone says intel suck
[06:17] <MartijnVdS> ging: no, intel rocks
[06:17] <MartijnVdS> Intel and ATi are the best choices atm, as both have well-supported Free drivers
[06:19] <ging> well how come my old pc could never come out of suspend mode?
[06:19] <MartijnVdS> there you have it: old.
[06:20] <MartijnVdS> I haven't had problems with suspend (and/or Intel) since about hardy-ish
[06:20] <shauno> I haven't had a problem with suspend since I quit using linux on laptops  *duck*
[06:20] <MartijnVdS> shauno: 8-)
[06:22] <shauno> * Looking up localhost:10002
[06:22] <shauno> * Unknown host. Maybe you misspelled it?
[06:22] <shauno> *sigh*
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> messed up your /etc/hosts?
[06:23] <shauno> nope.  stupid client is just stupid
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> aren't clients always like that
[06:23] <MartijnVdS> oh wait that's customers
[06:23] <shauno> (irc client;)
[06:40] <shauno> thought I'd be clever and forward to irssi-proxy over ssh tunnels
[06:40] <shauno> turns out gui irc clients all blow chunks
[06:46] <MartijnVdS> ORLY
[06:48] <shauno> yarly.
[09:10] <popey> Someone has asked me to put Ubuntu on their computer for general surfing and such
[09:10] <popey> pondering what version to give them
[09:11] <popey> intel 945, 2GB RAM
[09:12] <popey> was thinking 10.04 but actually Unity should work fine on this
[09:12] <popey> 60GB disk
[09:18] <shauno> I'd be tempted to try it too.  It's going to be completely unfamiliar to them anyway
[09:18] <popey> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
[09:18] <shauno> why make them learn 'the old way' just to be yanked onto 'the new way' at some indeterminate point in the future
[09:18] <popey> I should make some notes about this.
[09:18] <AlanBell> 11.04 and then try out unity, unity-2d, classic gnome
[09:19] <popey> I suspect unity3d will work fine on this
[09:19] <popey> its a dell inspiron 6400
[09:19] <AlanBell> yeah, should be fine
[09:19] <shauno> it'd be interesting to see how someone actually reacts to unity with little to no preconceived notions going in
[09:19] <popey> yeah
[09:19] <shauno> but guinea pigs aside, I think it'd be the wiser choice going forward either way
[09:19] <popey> I am going over for an hour or so tomorrow to hand over / introduce
[09:20] <popey> if it goes well I'll probably upgrade my mums PC to natty too
[09:20] <popey> and going to give her a bigger screen too
[09:20] <popey> "With this bigger screen you get a new UI"
[09:20] <AlanBell> my kids are using natty
[09:20] <popey> "oh, ok"
[09:20] <popey> is how that will go
[09:21] <popey> her revo should run natty okay
[09:21] <shauno> that's pretty much how my mom went on linux.  her single complaint, "why is the start button at the top".  click, drag. to the bottom.  "oh, ok".
[09:26] <AlanBell> yeah, shame on Natty the BFB is so useless
[09:27] <AlanBell> I don't get why the top level menu of the bfb isn't the categories in the Applications menu
[09:31] <popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/PCForFriend
[09:32] <hamitron> haha popey
[09:33] <popey> gonna mail the list too
[09:34] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:36] <daubers> Morning
[09:37] <brobostigon> morning daubers
[09:38] <Laney> ello
[09:41]  * daubers makes a cuppa
[09:42] <shauno> it's starting to feel like I should have tried sleeping instead of playing civ all night :(
[09:42]  * Laney has a nice cuppa lapsang souchong
[09:44] <daubers> shauno: Which Civ? Civ V is aces as is IV
[09:44] <shauno> 5 :)
[09:44]  * hamitron likes civnet
[09:44] <hamitron> never had 4 or 5
[09:44] <hamitron> :/
[09:45] <shauno> never was a fan of 1, liked 2, never tried 3, hated 4 just because of what they did to colonization :/
[09:45] <hamitron> I never got into 2, but my comp of the time was underpowered
[09:45] <hamitron> :)
[09:45] <daubers> V makes my laptop really toasty
[09:45] <hamitron> hmmm, toast
[09:45] <hamitron> :/
[09:46] <shauno> yeah.  the fan on mine gets really quite loud if you zoom out
[09:46] <shauno> which unfortunately some of the city views do for you :/
[09:46] <hamitron> I wouldn't mind getting civ5, only they seem to release things so often
[09:47] <hamitron> get as much $$$ outta ya as they can
[09:48] <hamitron> prob worth it for someone who plays that particular game a lot more than I would
[09:50] <shauno> to be honest, I only got civ5 because I got a shiney new laptop, and had a handful of 4-5yo games to play on it
[09:51] <hamitron> :D
[09:51] <shauno> so I got civ5, and then portal2 a couple of weeks later.  then realised I'd spend e100 on games in one month, and felt bad
[09:51] <hamitron> do people still play freeciv?
[09:52] <popey> some do ☺
[09:52] <shauno> never tried it.  I do play freecol when I get really bored tho
[09:52] <popey> i have a friend who does
[09:52] <shauno> (colonization was always much better than civ ;)
[09:52] <hamitron> shauno: what is different?
[09:53] <shauno> a lot more micromanagement I guess
[10:00] <czajkowski> morning
[10:00] <livingdaylight> GM
[10:00] <livingdaylight> getting my Adroid gingerbread upgrade this morning
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> which phone?
[10:03] <dutchie> hmm, really should get round to finishing portal1
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Searching for Unity features/bugs on google is annoying
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> there are apparently 2 other things with that name (at least)
[10:07] <czajkowski> MartijnVdS: why search there
[10:07] <czajkowski> how about ask ubuntu for features and lp for bugs
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: because the wiki search sucks
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: so does launchpad search
[10:07] <czajkowski> askubuntu ?
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Never used it.
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> Google always worked before.
[10:08] <czajkowski> handy lens you can install on unity
[10:08] <czajkowski> search from dekstop
[10:08] <czajkowski> handy
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> but I have my browser open 99% of the time
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> so why would I need that?
[10:08] <czajkowski> ok
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> the Search interface in unity is broken/annoying as well, so I don't use it.
[10:09] <czajkowski> I'm sure you filed a bug then
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: Nah, it'll probably get closed with "This is how the design team wants it, quiet, you peon"
[10:10] <livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, htc desire hd
[10:10] <livingdaylight> on 3network
[10:10] <czajkowski> MartijnVdS: do you have any idea how annoying it is to hear people give out about thigns, but tell them to file a bug and then they wont they rather just give out
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I'm not annoyed by search being bad, because I never use it _anyway_
[10:11] <czajkowski> fine
[10:11] <livingdaylight> I hope we get swype back on gingerbread
[10:14] <shauno> I gotta admit, I find it more annoying the other way around.  it used to be that people would help you figure a problem out.  now they'll just let you languish in bugzilla
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah launchpad is a bit of a place where bugs go to die.
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> (or live forever)
[10:14] <AlanBell> so triage stuff
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: can't triage my own bugs
[10:15] <AlanBell> true, but you can triage other peoples
[10:15] <AlanBell> and you can look after your own bug a bit
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> So their bugs get fixed and mine don't? :P
[10:15] <czajkowski> of ffs
[10:15] <czajkowski> I give up
[10:15] <AlanBell> providing information, finding people to confirm it etc
[10:17] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: and other people will fix your bugs and you fix theirs
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I've been reporting bugs since Warty (back when it was bugzilla), most have been closed "Not a bug" or "Oh we fixed that weeks ago and forgot to tell you"
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that doesn't help motivation.
[10:18] <AlanBell> yeah, I do agree it is easy to become a bit jaded when dealing with launchpad
[10:18] <MartijnVdS> Especially the unity bugs last cycle, that all got closed "Wontfix, design team override"
[10:19] <AlanBell> and difficult bugs in general where the right people don't have the broken hardware
[10:19] <MartijnVdS> yeah, that as well
[10:19] <AlanBell> for instance every core i3 laptop has had a broken VGA port for over a year
[10:19] <MartijnVdS> (I have this tuning issue that even the devs on the dvb mailing list cry about..)
[10:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: did you order that DVB->USB box you linked to a few weeks back?
[10:22] <AlanBell> so in Unity is there a way to navigate my installed applications by the categories I am used to?
[10:23] <AlanBell> so if I used to click Applications-graphics-gimp how do I do that in unity?
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: BFB -> More applications -> top right of the black overlay
[10:24] <AlanBell> eww, ugly grey dropdown
[10:24] <AlanBell> ok
[10:25] <AlanBell> personally when I click the bfb I want a big friendly icon for each category which takes me to a page with just that category
[10:27] <gord> AlanBell, yeah the grey dropdown was a running out of time thing, sorry
[10:27] <AlanBell> and universal access doesn't show me orca and onboard (both installed) but shows me a load of other stuff for download
[10:28] <gord> we can only show things that a, want to be shown and b, have the right categories, unfortunately. sometimes things are out of our hands
[10:29] <AlanBell> understood, any idea where I fix it?
[10:29] <gord> the .desktop file for the applications normally
[10:29] <AlanBell> right, ok
[10:31] <livingdaylight> my android been upgraded to version 2.36.405.8
[10:45] <shauno> is there a sensible way to get thunderbird to check for new mail in all folders?
[11:21] <bigcalm> Good morning kids :)
[11:21] <shauno> 'lo bob
[11:24] <bigcalm> Bob?
[11:25] <shauno> don't make me link you to weebl & bob.  it's 2011 already :p
[11:25] <gord> don't worry bigcalm - i have no idea what he's on about either :)
[11:25] <gord> i think its better that way
[11:26] <shauno> :)
[11:30] <bigcalm> shauno: there was no context to hint that you were making a Weebl reference. I still need coffee as well
[11:34] <shauno> you're right, there wasn't.  I get just bored of 'howdy' sometimes
[12:17] <AlanBell> gord: how do I find (and slap) the person who did this? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/view/head:/debian/patches/01_disable_menu_icons.patch
[12:18] <Azelphur> AlanBell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/revision/26 ?
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "View revisions to this file"
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/onboard/oneiric/changes?filter_file_id=01_disable_menu_icon-20100414061233-bk6cf6sdsaty3jr8-1
[12:18] <AlanBell> I think that is just who synced it from Debian
[12:19] <Azelphur> AlanBell: go upstream then?
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Luke Yelavich (themuso) did it
[12:19] <AlanBell> huh, Luke did it O_o
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> "To bring it in line with other assistive technologies, or something"
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> s/, or something/", or something
[12:20]  * awilkins is stuck at his daughters ballet class surrounded by screaming kids and people talking about bring stuff.
[12:20] <awilkins> boring, not bring
[12:20] <popey> haha
[12:21] <popey> I just left daughters ballet class :D
[12:21]  * awilkins feels he'd score much higher on the Asberger's quiz right now...
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: You linked to an ebay auction for a DVB-S2 receiver a few weeks ago. Did you end up ordering it?
[12:21] <Azelphur> lol
[12:21] <popey> no MartijnVdS
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> popey: ok, because mine still has a flakey driver :)
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> (and the kernel people say it's not a bug, or something.. or at least that the available patch isn't correct)
[12:22] <awilkins> These things are pretty simple, mostly aren't they
[12:22] <awilkins> Well, in principle
[12:22] <awilkins> I get the impression they all present themselves as a network adapter
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: DVB cards? No.. they're special.
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> awilkins:
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: DVB is its own subsystem
[12:23] <awilkins> Yes, but when I plug them into Windows they have a MAC address and everything
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: ah sure, but that's Windows :)
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> All cards work in Windows (they have drivers)
[12:24] <awilkins> Which is why I gain the impression that the hardware is abstracted as a network interface
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/244201/
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: but it's not :) It contains a network bit (for IP-over-DVB reception: satellite internet)
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: but that's about it
[12:25] <awilkins> Only really mucked about with MythTV and the userland tools
[12:26] <awilkins> And the last time I had to actually do anything was years ago.. the drivers on the hardware I've got work ok.
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> yeah usually it does
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> but this revision of the chipset is weird. Or something
[12:26] <bigcalm> Morning popey. I've been sent a new 'welcome to vm' letter. Did that happen when you upgraded?
[12:27] <awilkins> Heh, they do that, totally revise the internals of the card, call it by the same model number, but totally different hardware inside
[12:27] <popey> yes
[12:27] <bigcalm> popey: ignore it or call them up?
[12:27] <awilkins> I must get onto VM at some point and review my current bill / service ratio
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: No the card is fine -- it's just that one of the chips works slightly differently in the batch that I have
[12:28] <awilkins> I'm comfy enough on 10MBit/s but I'm sure they are probably overcharging me for it
[12:28] <gord> AlanBell, yeah a few apps have done that, i'm working my way through convincing the desktop guys to revert all that stuff
[12:31] <awilkins> Dammit, should have brought my PSU, apparently tethering the phone sucks charge like a McD's milkshake
[12:32] <gord> hehe, prize for worst analogy of the day goes to awilkins and its only midday!
[12:32] <AlanBell> gord: yeah, the "decluttering" argument (which doesn't have much merit at the best of times) is totally invalidated by including icons for stuff you don't even have installed
[12:33] <AlanBell> it would be better to not have onboard on the CD and then it would be more discoverable!
[12:36]  * awilkins has left his earplug/phones at home and has to cope with the gossipings of working class Northern mothers without 45dB attenuation or distraction. Curses.
[12:42] <awilkins> Don't suppose anyone can link me to some pretty pictures of the internal design of RCS / CVS
[12:46] <awilkins> The project I'm working on apparently has a version control design demonstrable worse than systems released 38 years ago. *sob*
[12:53] <popey> bigcalm: I havent opened it ☺
[12:53] <popey> AlanBell: what does that patch do?
[12:54] <Azelphur> wow, paid aircondirect for next day delivery, 2 days ago, say they won't get my item to me till monday and won't refund
[12:54] <Azelphur> probably gonna raise paypal dispute on this one
[12:54] <popey> hahaha aircodirect
[12:54] <popey> I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole
[12:54] <Azelphur> noted :P
[12:54] <popey> http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2008/08/27/dont-shop-with-laptops-direct-unless-you-enjoy-marketing-email-and-a-hard-sell/
[12:54] <popey> same people
[12:55] <Azelphur> nice
[12:55] <popey> their marketing guy replied on that thread
[12:57] <bigcalm> popey: I've opened mine at it is a new contract to sign :|
[13:00] <popey> erk
[13:01] <popey> also, someone has setup @popeydishwasher
[13:02] <czajkowski> oh I had war with them
[13:03] <czajkowski> evil horrible place to buy laptop from them
[13:03] <czajkowski> HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE
[13:04] <czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/tag/laptopsdirect/
[13:05] <czajkowski> popey: gt a gifgaff sim
[13:06] <czajkowski> any idea how I get to port over my O2 number to it ?
[13:06] <popey> call O2 ☺
[13:06] <czajkowski> ah as simple as that
[13:06] <czajkowski> grand
[13:06] <czajkowski> thanks
[13:06] <czajkowski> wondered who I had to tell
[13:07] <dutchie> o2 will give you a PAC number
[13:07] <dutchie> czajkowski: http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/599/session/L3NpZC9XSDZyYnVoaw%3D%3D
[13:07] <AlanBell> popey: it hides onboard from the unity menu
[13:07] <dutchie> that needs a better url
[13:08] <AlanBell> popey: and the regular gnome menu too
[13:08] <popey> i thought it just hid the icon
[13:08] <AlanBell> it does
[13:09] <AlanBell> click the applications lens, use the dropdown in the top right (that doesn't look much like a dropdown) to select universal access and it just shows you stuff you don't have and hides the stuff you do have
[13:10] <czajkowski> dutchie: cheers
[13:12] <dutchie> czajkowski: np
[13:30] <Azelphur> Anyone know about A/C's reckon this will do a small room with 8 computers in it? http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Air-Conditioners/buy-PROLINE-CL220-Air-Conditioner/371211
[13:33] <penguin42> Azelphur: Just normal PCs?
[13:33] <penguin42> Azelphur: With monitors? High end or just normal? And are there people in there?
[13:34] <Azelphur> penguin42: GPU cluster, so high spec graphics cards at 100% but no monitors and no people
[13:35] <penguin42> Azelphur: OK, so what do you reckon each computer is drawing? 500W ?
[13:35] <Azelphur> that sounds about right, yes
[13:35] <Azelphur> hopefully a bit lower than that, 500w is worst case
[13:35] <penguin42> Azelphur: OK, so 8*500=4kW l that says it has 2.4kW cooling capacity (and that's normally based on a room with humans in - so probably 2kW or a bit less for mostly computers)
[13:36] <penguin42> so no, it won't do it
[13:36] <Azelphur> ok
[13:37] <Azelphur> so i need a 4kw unit xD
[13:37] <penguin42> Azelphur: Well, a bit more than 4kW if it's designed to cool a room with 4kW of mostly humans in; humans give off hot warm liquid that's easier to cool
[13:38] <penguin42> Azelphur: The other thing with that is I'm assuming it's one that has a water tank that will need regularly emptying
[13:38] <Azelphur> i would have thought computers dont give off heat at a 1:1 ratio of power usage?
[13:38] <penguin42> Azelphur: Where else would you expect the power to go?
[13:38] <Azelphur> no its not a swamp cooler? :p
[13:39] <Azelphur> to be used in the computer?
[13:39] <penguin42> Azelphur: And then what happens to it?
[13:39] <Azelphur> and then its used? o.o
[13:39] <penguin42> Azelphur: *all* power that goes in ends up as heat
[13:39] <Azelphur> i see
[13:39] <penguin42> Azelphur: (The light from the LEDs and the sound of the fans even end up as heat when they are absorbed by the walls)
[13:40] <Azelphur> fun
[13:40] <penguin42> there is a TINY information theoretic usage from reordering information into information with erm is it more? entropy that uses some of the energy
[13:40] <Azelphur> i see
[13:42] <penguin42> hmm thinking about it I think it's working on something to produce something with less entropy that would use energy? But heck that's above my physics knowledge without reading it up again
[13:42] <Azelphur> lol
[13:44] <penguin42> Azelphur: In the UK it's easy; you measure computer energy use in kWh, they put out kW of heat and you measure aircon in kw cooled; in the US however their computers take kW of energy, they measure heat output in BTU and cooling capacity in tonnes (of ice)
[13:46] <Azelphur> but btu means british something unit
[13:46] <dutchie> thermal
[13:47] <penguin42> Azelphur: You're actually better with say 3 of those 2kW coolers than one 4kW unit; first they're fairly cheap and secondly when one fails (which it will) you won't suddenly burn it out
[13:47] <Azelphur> cool
[13:48] <penguin42> Azelphur: I bet they use about 1kW for every 2kW cooled though!
[13:48] <Azelphur> haha its not quite that bad
[13:49] <penguin42> Azelphur: There is another way
[13:49] <Azelphur> yea?
[13:49] <penguin42> Azelphur: You can get rid of some of the heat by using fans just to blow the heat from the back of the machines straight out of the window
[13:50] <penguin42> of course, the cops will think your running a cannabis farm but still
[13:50] <Azelphur> yea, i figured theyd think that anyway
[13:51] <penguin42> Azelphur: If you can organise an airflow to get the exhause fans straight outside it'll save a LOT of cooling
[13:51] <Azelphur> interesting
[13:51] <Azelphur> like a wind tunnel with the computers in it?
[13:52] <Azelphur> with some big desk fans to keep thins moving, ghetto style? :D
[13:52] <penguin42> Azelphur: The data centre design for cooling is really hairy
[13:53] <Azelphur> yea?
[13:53] <penguin42> yeh; try reading some of the way Facebook do it oin their public data centre design
[13:54] <Azelphur> cool, will do :D
[13:54]  * penguin42 used to keep a room with about 25kw in it going
[14:02] <Azelphur> penguin42: fun :p
[14:02] <Azelphur> Penmy brothers getting right miffed about it and saying that a 2kw unit will do it
[14:03] <Azelphur> penguin42: *
[14:03] <Azelphur> penguin42: he also says that you can't use energy twice (once for the computer, and twice for heat) lol
[14:04] <penguin42> Azelphur: Correct; the answer to that is that there are two lumps of energy; the original energy that goes in to the computer and produces the heat, and the 2nd energy that's used to move the other energy and that's the nergey that goes into the aircon
[14:04] <Azelphur> I see :P
[14:05]  * hamitron is using wind power for cooling
[14:05] <penguin42> Azelphur: IMHO it's a bit nuts to have 2kW of compute power at home :-)
[14:05] <Azelphur> I know :)
[14:06] <Azelphur> penguin42: 4kw :p
[14:06] <hamitron> there is no debate on that, we know he is nuts ;)
[14:06] <penguin42> Azelphur: In the winter it'll work well if you spread them out and use them as heaters - then you don't need the cooling
[14:06] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:06] <Azelphur> they are a bit noisy for that
[14:06] <penguin42> seriously
[14:06] <hamitron> penguin42 is right, computer heating ftw
[14:07] <Azelphur> penguin42: so basically I have 2 rows of 4 computers with a GPU in each
[14:07] <Azelphur> reckon I can just build tunnels out of cardboard
[14:07] <Azelphur> and stick some desk fans and point it out the window?
[14:07] <penguin42> Azelphur: Surely this isn't worth it once all the costs are taken into account?
[14:08] <Azelphur> penguin42: we'll see, I already have the computers it's just cooling now :)
[14:08] <penguin42> Azelphur: Certainly tunneling it out of the window will help, I might go for something a bit more punchy than desk fans
[14:08] <Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110520_150522.jpg
[14:08] <Azelphur> what would you recommend?
[14:08] <hamitron> 300 PSI compressor
[14:08] <hamitron> ;)
[14:09] <Azelphur> :p
[14:09] <penguin42> Azelphur: You can get some chunky floor fns - big 40/50cm things
[14:09] <hamitron> prob blow the gpu over :/
[14:10] <penguin42> Azelphur: And seriously keep an eye on the temperature - if you've not got airflow in/out of windows then you could hit 40c in there if your aircon stops
[14:10] <Azelphur> penguin42: the fans I have are pretty close, 30cm
[14:10] <Azelphur> yea, temp monitoring is always a must
[14:10] <Azelphur> I thought the tunneling mitigated the need for aircon?
[14:10] <penguin42> it helps a lot
[14:11] <penguin42> but I'm not sure how much and how to quantify it; I've never tried it myself, just read about doing that
[14:11] <Azelphur> but can we mitigate the need for it altogether? :p
[14:11] <Azelphur> haha
[14:11] <hamitron> unplug the comps?
[14:11] <hamitron> ;)
[14:11] <penguin42> all the stuff I've done is with air con units
[14:11] <Azelphur> I see
[14:12] <hamitron> imo, you should use A/C for the room, then possibly 2 floor fans to move the hot air away from the mobo
[14:12] <hamitron> easiest
[14:12] <Azelphur> yea, so definitely gonna want an A/C
[14:12] <Azelphur> so start with http://www.comet.co.uk/p/Air-Conditioners/buy-PROLINE-CL220-Air-Conditioner/371211+ tunnels and keep an eye on the temps?
[14:13] <penguin42> I'd actually go with trying to duct as much of the heat out as possible - if nothing else it'll save you measureable aircon costs
[14:13] <hamitron> suppose an extractor fan on the window, with an intake at the other side of the room maybe....
[14:13] <penguin42> Azelphur: When you do this please keep room temp graphs; I'd love to see them as you add each extra machine
[14:13] <hamitron> :D
[14:13] <Azelphur> don't have any room temp sensors :(
[14:13] <Azelphur> only card sensors :p
[14:13] <hamitron> "each extra machine" <-- he is gonna prob plug everything in and hit the switch
[14:14] <hamitron> :/
[14:14] <Azelphur> ^ that too
[14:14] <penguin42> hamitron: It'll make bunsfield look tame
[14:14] <hamitron> bunsfield?
[14:14] <Azelphur> penguin42: so do you think buying that aircon unit and ducting all the mobos straight out to the window is the best course of action to start?
[14:14] <Azelphur> and see how it goes
[14:15] <penguin42> Azelphur: Get yourself one of the ~£10 plug in energy monitors to see how much one machine actually uses when it's running
[14:15] <Azelphur> I have one
[14:15] <Azelphur> that's how I knew the 500w figure was accurate :)
[14:15] <hamitron> 500w!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[14:15] <hamitron> wtf is it?
[14:15] <Azelphur> (although I'd like to get that way down, I havn't optimized anything yet)
[14:15] <penguin42> hamitron: And he has 8 of them
[14:15] <hamitron> yeh, but 500W for a comp seems a lot
[14:15] <Azelphur> hamitron: that's the 6990 overclocked with the memory hiked up too
[14:16] <hamitron> oh
[14:16] <hamitron> I mean the power for the nodes wtih the 5870
[14:16] <Azelphur> really plenty of optimization to be done there
[14:16] <Azelphur> yea, they arn't out of the boxes yet
[14:16] <penguin42> Azelphur: It might be worth doing the maths of whether the overclocking is worth it; the compute power probably goes up slower than the energy/heat
[14:16] <Azelphur> penguin42: but yea, do I go to the shop now and buy that A/C or not? :P
[14:16] <Azelphur> yes, I need to do that too :)
[14:16] <hamitron> i was thinking 8 x 500 + 550 + AirCon_unit
[14:17] <Azelphur> hamitron: nah, I wanna get that way down
[14:18] <hamitron> and make sure you check the ring is fused
[14:18] <hamitron> :)
[14:18] <hamitron> house fires ftl
[14:18] <Azelphur> hamitron: I'll get you to help me with that :P
[14:18] <hamitron> I can't see :/
[14:18] <penguin42> hamitron: Power wise it's not that high; his 8 machines at 500w is still only a little more than a kettle
[14:18] <Azelphur> lol
[14:19] <hamitron> penguin42: it isn't just them
[14:19] <hamitron> :/
[14:19] <Azelphur> hamitron: what else is it?
[14:19] <hamitron> the 6990
[14:19] <penguin42> Azelphur: Don't laugh until you've taken out a 100A fuse - a few times - and knocked out the breaker to a 1/3 of a building
[14:19] <hamitron> your main comp
[14:19] <Azelphur> that's only one more lol
[14:19] <Azelphur> penguin42: haha
[14:19] <hamitron> and you mentioned something about an electric heater
[14:19] <Azelphur> penguin42: but yea I need to get down to this shop before it closes and buy an A/C if we all think that's the good thing to do :)
[14:20] <Azelphur> so shall I do that?
[14:20] <hamitron> penguin42: we added stuff up and worked out there could be about 34A
[14:20] <Azelphur> it sounds good to me, weak A/C and duct to start with
[14:20] <penguin42> Azelphur: Seems a bit wimpy aircon to me, but starting with that is probably a good learning job
[14:21] <Azelphur> yea, I can always buy another one if it's wimpy right?
[14:21] <penguin42> yeh; you want to check there is a way to duct the water out of it - other wise you'll spend your entire life changing buckets on them
[14:21] <Azelphur> I reckon tunnels + that ac should be a good start :D
[14:22] <Azelphur> it has a 1.5m hose, they usually chuck the water out the hose
[14:22] <penguin42> ah good; some have a bucket
[14:23] <Azelphur> ok then, I'll sort out getting one of those and work on ducting everything out the window :p
[14:23] <Azelphur> building supercomputers in the spare bedroom is fun :D
[14:23] <hamitron> and a heavy dutty mains extension
[14:23] <hamitron> ;/
[14:23] <penguin42> well it'll need more than one; >13A
[14:23] <penguin42> hamitron: How did you get 34A?
[14:24] <hamitron> that included everything else on the circuit
[14:24] <penguin42> ah
[14:24] <hamitron> to avoid blowing a fuse
[14:24] <penguin42> that's a shame given they're typically 32A fuses :-)
[14:24] <hamitron> so he may need to plug a main extension in a different part of the house, to power the A/C on a different circuit
[14:25]  * penguin42 would probably split it into 2
[14:25] <penguin42> hamitron: How long before he starts getting a 32A commando wired in ?
[14:25] <hamitron> the A/C unit was 6.3A I think
[14:26] <hamitron> haha
[14:26] <penguin42> 6.3A for 2.4kw cooling? heck that's a bit grim
[14:26] <hamitron> but less now he is downsizing
[14:26] <hamitron> my figures are for a larger unit I think
[14:28]  * hamitron grips his head in terror
[14:30] <hamitron> off for tea and cheese scone
[14:30] <hamitron> scoone
[14:30] <hamitron> hmmm
[14:30] <hamitron> with butter anyway
[14:30] <hamitron> ;/
[14:30] <hamitron> o/
[15:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Teams up for re approval Re-approvals for O-Cycle - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/21/teams-up-for-re-approval-re-approvals-for-o-cycle/
[16:26] <kaushal> Hi
[16:26] <kaushal> Can someone please help me understand about 3G USB Modem ?
[16:27] <kaushal> Does USB modem means CDMA or GSM ?
[16:27] <kaushal> very confusing
[16:28] <brobostigon> inthe uk, it will be gsm.
[16:28] <brobostigon> there arent any cdma networks inthe uk, that i know of.
[16:29] <kaushal> ok
[16:29] <kaushal> so 3G means UMTS ?
[16:29] <kaushal> UMTS 2100 ?
[16:29] <brobostigon> or hsdpa.
[16:29] <brobostigon> which is 3.5g.
[16:32]  * popey notes kaushal isn't in the UK
[16:32] <brobostigon> oh, i didnt know.ok. then ignore whati have said.
[16:33] <kaushal> brobostigon: np
[16:39] <kaushal> popey: Any reference about 3G ?
[16:39] <kaushal> Its so confusing
[16:39] <kaushal> GPRS EDGE HSPA WCDMA .....
[16:40] <popey> Can you ask a specific question?
[16:40] <kaushal> sure
[16:40] <kaushal> How do i get to know these terms
[16:41] <popey> wikipedia?
[16:41] <kaushal> 2.5 G 2G 3G 3.5G blah blah
[16:45] <ali1234> why does screen clear the LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
[16:46] <hamitron> new bash instance?
[16:46] <hamitron> or it fully clears it?
[16:46] <ali1234> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=foo BAR=bar screen
[16:46] <ali1234> inside screen: echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH; echo $BAR
[16:48] <hamitron> I've just added up what linux has cost me over the years
[16:48] <hamitron> £840
[16:48] <hamitron> :/
[16:52] <hamitron> ali1234: it does on mine too
[16:52] <hamitron> but when I load screen, the bash it is using is a different process
[16:52] <hamitron> so it is like opening a seperate terminal
[16:54] <kvarley> hamitron: Linux has cost me nothing except time
[16:54] <hamitron> it has cost me that too
[16:54] <hamitron> :)
[16:55] <hamitron> the price is for the books I bought, because of linux
[16:55] <hamitron> :/
[16:56] <kvarley> hamitron: I was lucky enough to have time to play around and learn. And also access to wiki and irc resources helped massively
[16:57] <kvarley> UbuntuForums is where I initially started getting help :)
[16:57] <hamitron> well, I can't blame ubuntu, it didn't exist
[16:57] <hamitron> :)
[16:58] <hamitron> for sure, ubuntu, by providing a stable, easy to use platform, has reduce the cost of ownership
[16:58] <hamitron> it would have still cost me though, I have to read up on things when I show an interest
[16:58] <hamitron> :D
[16:58] <hamitron> took me 4 books to get X working though
[16:58] <hamitron> :/
[17:15]  * popey tickles bigcalm 
[17:16] <czajkowski> popey: how was rio ?
[17:16]  * bigcalm squeeks
[17:16] <bigcalm> Hi kids :)
[17:17] <popey> yea, ok. not as good as disney films
[17:18] <czajkowski> want to get tangled
[17:18] <czajkowski> didnt see that yet
[17:18] <czajkowski> http://adisney.go.com/disneypictures/tangled/
[17:21] <bigcalm> I forgot how much fun Dymo labler is
[17:21] <popey> hahah
[17:21] <popey> the clunk ones?
[17:22] <popey> with the tape that makes you bleed when you peel it?
[17:22] <bigcalm> http://yfrog.com/gza4rytxj
[17:22] <bigcalm> Yep :D
[17:22] <popey> ☺
[17:22] <bigcalm> Except, they've improved the peeling bit
[17:23] <bigcalm> Now, as well as cutting the tape, it also semi-cuts a bit before it, so you can peel it back
[17:23] <popey> oh ours did that, but it still ended up with blood ☺
[17:24] <bigcalm> Blood \o/
[17:32] <danfish> black pudding \o/
[17:34] <popey> \o/
[17:35] <mgdm> \o/
[17:36] <bigcalm> Yes please!
[17:36] <bigcalm> Hi mgdm
[17:36] <danfish> not quite sure why I typed "black pudding" but hay hoo!
[17:37] <danfish> Having a barbie 2nite - I wonder if you can bbq black pudding?
[17:37] <bigcalm> I see no reason for not typing it :)
[17:41] <danfish> oh well - nothing ventured, etc.....hmm an idea is forming for experimental cooking pt 2 - breakfast on the BBQ :D
[17:46] <gord> stoopid laptop, get out of donnington, thats not where you live
[17:51] <bigcalm> 4sq wouldn't get out of Wolverhampton today :(
[17:51] <mgdm> Hi bigcalm
[17:54] <bigcalm> I want to refactor this project from 2000
[17:54] <bigcalm> If only I had about a year to work on it and do nothing else
[17:55] <bigcalm> I hate to admit it, but I think even Drupal would work for most of it
[17:55]  * bigcalm feels very dirty now
[17:57] <mgdm> heh
[17:57] <bigcalm> At leat I get to make it 'modern' with bits of jQuery :)
[17:59] <mgdm> I've been revising my dormant JS skills of late
[18:00] <popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SimpleGuide
[18:00] <popey> *cough*
[18:01] <popey> \o/ end of the world
[18:03] <danfish> has the Rapture happened? Where did I end up?
[18:03] <gord> yeah but it only took cliff richard
[18:04] <danfish> that's price worth paying IMO ;)
[18:05] <mgdm> sadly I didn't get to implement the plan I heard about the other day, to leave loads of pairs of shoes lying about with dry ice in
[18:05] <popey> ☺
[18:05] <czajkowski> what time is dr. who on at
[18:05] <czajkowski> 7 or 8
[18:06] <danfish> czajkowski: 6.45
[18:06] <popey> 6:45
[18:06] <czajkowski> cheers
[18:06] <bigcalm> I just started to check a tv guide app on my phone
[18:06] <bigcalm> Can be useful
[18:06] <danfish> but time for dr who is a very grey area ;)
[18:07] <mgdm> hehe
[18:07] <popey> it's wibbly wobbly
[18:07] <popey> well, this laptop is all installed
[18:08] <mgdm> anythign special?
[18:09] <danfish> I was supposed to be moving a (work) zoneminder install to a new low power dual atom MB, but the weather today has been too good
[18:10] <mgdm> the weather here is pretty miserable
[18:11] <bigcalm> Grey grey and more grey
[18:11] <mgdm> if I have 2 monitors, of different heights, am I always going to have a virtual desktop the same height as the largest monitor, so there's a bit off to the bottom left of the smaller one that I can't see?
[18:12] <danfish> a bit of a north/south divide :(
[18:14] <danfish> virtual desktops and dual monitors takes a bit of thinking about
[18:14] <mgdm> Sadly the control panel applet which should make it easier crashes X every time so I have to use xrandr, which probably isn't the cleanest way
[18:15] <danfish> is that on natty/unity?
[18:15] <bigcalm> Why can I never remember how to do pagination quickly and easily? Always seem to be reinventing the wheel
[18:15] <mgdm> danfish: nah, "classic" on natty
[18:15] <mgdm> Unity did some decidedly odd things :)
[18:16] <anulondon> hi.
[18:16] <anulondon> london_are you using 10.04
[18:19] <anulondon> here
[18:20] <brobostigon> ?
[18:22] <anulondon> hi
[18:23] <danfish> popey: how's you do the smily? or is it under a superinjunction?
[18:23] <mgdm> ☺
[18:23] <danfish> s/smily/smiley
[18:23] <mgdm> ctrl-shift u 2 6 3 a space
[18:23] <mgdm> it's a unicode codepoint, so rather fiddly to type
[18:24] <mgdm> ctrl-shift-u should get you a sort of underlined 'u'
[18:24] <danfish> ☺#
[18:24] <mgdm> then type 263a and hit space, then you should have your smiley
[18:24] <danfish> nearly!
[18:24] <danfish> thanks
[18:25] <mgdm> there's a pile of "useful" stuff in there :)
[18:29] <danfish> I solemnly promise not spam the channel with rubbish unicode ☺
[18:29] <popey> i have an alias in my irc client
[18:30] <danfish> ❤
[18:30] <mgdm> ☃
[18:30] <czajkowski>   ▌         ▌      ▐  ▗
[18:30] <czajkowski> ▞▀▌▙▀▖  ▌  ▌▛▀▖▞▀▖ ▜▀ ▄ ▛▚▀▖▞▀▖
[18:30] <czajkowski> ▌ ▌▌  ▗▖▐▐▐ ▌ ▌▌ ▌ ▐ ▖▐ ▌▐ ▌▛▀
[18:30] <czajkowski> :D
[18:30] <czajkowski> ▝▀▘▘  ▝▘ ▘▘ ▘ ▘▝▀   ▀ ▀▘▘▝ ▘▝▀▘
[18:30] <brobostigon> :) in 15mins.
[18:31] <czajkowski> best thing Daviey ever did for my irc client
[18:31] <mgdm> ...you broke your own combo?
[18:31] <popey> no spoilers pls
[18:31] <brobostigon> ok.
[18:31] <mgdm> Hmmm, I've not been very impressed with this series so far
[18:31] <mgdm> so Im' not sure if I'll bother watching
[18:31] <czajkowski> mgdm: likewise
[18:31] <popey> last weeks was good
[18:31] <popey> best for a long while IMO
[18:32] <mgdm> That was Neil Gaiman's, wasn't it?
[18:32] <mgdm> I expected it to be good
[18:33] <danfish> mgdm: as I've said before, time, and opinions are all relative ;)
[18:33] <Daviey> czajkowski, lol, i forgot i set that up for you.
[18:34] <mgdm> danfish: I'm not trying to force anyone into the same opinion, it was just a statement
[18:34] <czajkowski> Daviey: :D
[18:34] <czajkowski> Daviey: see you have a use
[18:35] <Daviey> i so do!
[18:35] <mgdm> Why, when I try to resize a window using the grabber at the bottom right, am I instead getting the same menu I'd get from the window icon at the top left?!
[18:36] <mgdm> Oh, the titlebar was offscreen, which makes it do that
[18:36] <mgdm> weird
[18:38] <danfish> mgdm: when I look at the TV schedules, there is so little worth watching - I'm just happy to see anything remotely good ie Dr Who. It's that or "Britain's got talent in the jungle ice skating" ;)
[18:40] <mgdm> I wished they'd make a combination of "SAS: Are You Tough Enough?" with "I'm a 'Celebrity'@
[18:40] <mgdm> actually, if they'd make a celebrity version of I'm a Celebrity, that might be quite good
[18:42] <danfish> mgdm: :)
[19:28] <czajkowski> and we can taljk again
[19:32] <popey> we can?
[19:38] <czajkowski> indeed  the dr.who is over so channel chat can resume
[19:47] <danfish> no spoilers plz as recorded
[19:48] <czajkowski> nods
[19:48] <czajkowski> I usually rant in the morning on fb
[19:52] <danfish> my 2 year old will probably wake me up at 5am giving me catchup time;)
[19:53] <czajkowski> danfish: eh ?
[19:54] <danfish> czajkowski: he can watch cbeebies while I watch dr who on laptop....at 5 am
[19:55] <czajkowski> danfish: unusal arangement
[19:55] <czajkowski> what ever works though
[19:56] <popey> blimey 5am
[19:56] <popey> I'd put them back in bed
[19:56] <czajkowski> at least till 6:30
[19:57] <czajkowski> thats when I wake up
[19:57] <czajkowski> stupid hour
[19:57] <danfish> popey: sunrise
[19:57] <popey> our kids wake up time is 7am
[19:57] <popey> if they wake before that they are told to stay in bed
[19:57] <czajkowski> mate loves it when I stay over her kids wake up at 6 they come into me when I'm there
[19:57] <popey> danfish: blackout blinds ☺
[19:57] <czajkowski> :D
[19:57] <czajkowski> smart
[19:58] <czajkowski> it does however spoil you
[19:58] <popey> they still sometimes wake at 6am, but they get told to get back in bed
[19:58] <czajkowski> ireland house has them
[19:58] <danfish> popey: drugs ;D
[19:58] <popey> heh
[19:58] <czajkowski> danfish: :o
[19:58] <czajkowski> calpol tastes nice
[19:58] <czajkowski> as long as it's the kids one
[19:58] <czajkowski> the 6+ isnt so nice
[19:58] <czajkowski> one for you
[19:58] <czajkowski> two for me
[19:58] <popey> !
[19:59] <popey> I have never tasted it
[19:59] <czajkowski> popey: take a swig of it
[19:59] <czajkowski> yummy strawberry sugarness
[19:59] <popey> nah
[19:59] <danfish> czajkowski: why, oh why?
[19:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> My kids wake at sunrise pretty much - They just go downstairs and watch telly. Don't even bother to wake us up anymore
[19:59] <czajkowski> danfish: tis nice
[19:59] <popey> ours aren't allowed downstairs till we get up
[19:59] <popey> but they're still young
[19:59] <popey> 7 and 4
[19:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> 10 & 6
[19:59] <danfish> mine our 2 & 4
[20:00] <danfish> s/our/are
[20:00] <czajkowski> hard to believe the 4 year old is 4, he's  as smart as 5/6 year old
[20:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> I will be making a beef Madras for dinner tomorrow :-D
[20:00] <popey> ooo yum
[20:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hang on! How come we are still alive?
[20:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Are we now in heaven?
[20:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't feel a thing
[20:01]  * danfish is making lamb flaps tomorrow - no sniggering!
[20:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[20:01] <livingdaylight> I've been to Madras, now called Chenai, but didn't know they did beef
[20:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> WTF are lamb flaps?
[20:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> You can make a curry with any meat.
[20:01] <danfish> lamb breast - braised for 1 hour then BBQ'd
[20:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Some religions in India do eat Beef and in Sri Lanka some of them eat Pork too.
[20:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds fun danfish.
[20:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> We need some twitpics  I think.
[20:02] <livingdaylight> Hindus definitely don't eat beef
[20:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> I will be having my second go at home made Naan tomorrow too.
[20:03] <livingdaylight> Muslims like their meat
[20:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> livingdaylight: Hindus do generally not eat beef yes.
[20:03] <danfish> I will put the recipe/pics on the receipe bit on ubuntu-uk wiki
[20:04] <livingdaylight> TheOpenSourcerer, not at all, lol, Cows are sacred to them
[20:04] <livingdaylight> I don't know whether that is where the expression "Holy Cow!" comes from?
[20:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm not 100% sure it applies to *all* hindus. There are shedloads of gods and many different kinds of Hindu.
[20:05] <livingdaylight> Hindus are supposed to be vegetarian afaik.
[20:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> I spent 5 weeks travelling around India with an Indian family in 1989. Great place.
[20:05] <livingdaylight> unless their dacoits worshipping Ka
[20:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Want to go back with the kids when they are a bit older.
[20:05] <livingdaylight> *Kali or Durga
[20:09]  * livingdaylight is making pizza dough
[20:09] <popey> RIght, Doctor Who time for me
[20:09] <popey> now sophie is in bed
[20:10] <livingdaylight> Anyone watch The Wave late last night? good film i thought
[20:10] <czajkowski> popey: got the beer and curry in to watch it
[20:10] <popey> cant really have too much beer
[20:10] <popey> daddy daycare
[20:10] <czajkowski> nods
[20:10] <czajkowski> but 1 is allowed
[20:10] <czajkowski> don't spill when you jump
[20:10] <popey> so I am having vodka ;)
[20:11] <czajkowski> popey: you have the most oddest logic of any person I know
[20:11] <gord> its true, you really can't have too much beer
[20:11] <czajkowski> and I know a lotta odd balls
[20:11] <livingdaylight> popey, I was thinking bout what you said in relation to Sony laptops, and wondered how that didn't equally apply to Apple Macs?
[20:11] <ball> I wish I could watch Doctor Who
[20:11] <czajkowski> running ubuntu on my last sony was a royal pita
[20:11] <czajkowski> non of the sony special keys would ever work
[20:12] <czajkowski> and which is a nice feature of sony to have
[20:12] <czajkowski> so never buying one again
[20:12] <czajkowski> do like my toshiba though
[20:12] <czajkowski> but next laptop is going to be light!
[20:12] <livingdaylight> samsung do a nice 13" one - i5 processor and light
[20:13] <popey> livingdaylight: apple laptops > sony laptops
[20:13] <popey> in some ways ☺
[20:13] <ball> Sony generally is a PitA in my experience.
[20:13] <popey> yup
[20:13] <ball> I don't know about over there, but here their laptops have a common failure mode in the cooling fan.
[20:13] <livingdaylight> popey, that's what I thought, if I understood you - Apple are king of proprietary, no?
[20:14] <gord> sony laptops seem to be for the person who wants to buy a product, all wrapped up in a bow, they don't want to do anything to it, they just want to have it and it do what they want
[20:14] <ball> ...and for a while they were partitioning their Windows machines in a way that made no sense for anyone.
[20:14] <ball> (not an issue for us, but inconvenient for their customers)
[20:14] <popey> livingdaylight: *shrug*
[20:15] <ball> In some ways Apple are less proprietary than they used to be. In others, perhaps a little more.
[20:15] <ball> Either way, provided the person buying it knows what they're getting into, that's fair enough.
[20:15] <popey> yeah
[20:16] <popey> gosh this vodka is ferocous
[20:16] <popey> ferocious
[20:16]  * ball is drinking ginger ale
[20:17]  * ball is full of Chinese food.
[20:17]  * ball seems to be referring to himself in the third person.
[20:17]  * livingdaylight wonders why ball does that?
[20:21] <ball> livingdaylight: It may be a side effect of the noodles.
[20:21] <matti> ;]
[20:24] <popey> mmmm noodles
[20:24] <popey> bah, I'm in two channels where people are talking about food
[20:38] <nigelb> popey: That tends to happen a lot when I'm hungry :/
[20:40] <gord> just FYI - i have pringles
[20:40] <czajkowski> gord: I have coconut rings
[20:40] <czajkowski> and kitkats!
[20:42] <gord> bleeeeh things with coconut on it
[20:42]  * penguin42 doesn't have any mini rolls any more 
[20:43] <ball> NOM! :-9
[20:43] <ball> Oh well... off to the garden centre
[20:54] <nigelb> gord, czajkowski: EVIL people!
[20:55] <czajkowski> I had a twinky during the week
[20:55] <czajkowski> the bf got a lot of american sweets
[20:55] <czajkowski> a whole box of them
[20:55] <czajkowski> thought I didnt like them
[20:55] <czajkowski> turns out I do
[20:58] <gord> i don't like american sweets, its all wrong
[20:58] <gord> even things that are the same brand as here? its all wrong
[20:59] <gord> i tried some american gummy bears? ew
[21:04] <penguin42> gord: Yeh I've occasionally had stuff people have bought over, they have some very odd things
[21:05]  * penguin42 remembers some things that looked like maltesers but tasted almost exactly unlike them
[21:35] <jacobw> penguin42: reeces peices?
[21:36] <penguin42> no - those don't look anything like maltesers
[21:36] <penguin42> jacobw: I think they may have been 'whoppers'
[21:37] <penguin42> very odd things
[21:45] <czajkowski> whoo time for some Tangled
[21:48] <Azelphur> hmm, I installed the fglrx package, but when I run startx it says that the fglrx module does not exist :S
[21:48] <Azelphur> what's up with that?
[21:55] <penguin42> any errors during package installation?
[21:55] <Azelphur> penguin42: I did have one originally, it was about a file not existing, I created the folder and then it carried on
[21:55] <Azelphur> now I can reinstall fglrx with no errors
[21:56] <Azelphur> penguin42: I can even modprobe fglrx, this makes no sense \o/
[21:56] <jacobw> lsmod?
[21:56] <Azelphur> yep, it's there http://pastebin.com/i3dXiRSX
[21:57] <penguin42> I['m wondering if that's the X server module not the kernel module
[21:58] <Azelphur> maybe, what's the package for the x module?
[22:03] <Azelphur> anyone? :p
[22:16] <Seeker`> To all the people who were expecting the rapture today, cheer up, it's not like it's the end of the world. Oh...wait...sorry.
[22:17] <Azelphur> haha :D
[22:18] <daubers> Seeker`: It's rather rude making all this noise about coming and then not turning up
[22:18] <daubers> I made a cake and everything
[22:20] <JGJones> Hmm I don't think much of this Rapture thing...everything look the same as before...oh wait...does that mean we're in hell without knowing it?
[22:35] <jacobw> JGJones: we've all got until october to die
[22:35] <jacobw> JGJones: and presumably go to hell
[22:45] <Laney> happy smug atheists day
[22:59] <jacobw> atheism is so last 00's, possibilianism is new thing.
[22:59] <jacobw> eurgh. -last.
[23:00] <jacobw> +the
[23:00] <jacobw> grammar fail.
[23:19] <alnsn> disconnect
[23:20] <alnsn> help
[23:29] <JGJones> jacobw, at the risk of repeating a joke too often repeated....don't worry about the grammar fail, it's not the end of the world after all.
[23:43] <Azelphur> sigh, just had another DDoS attack on my server from another comcast user, 3rd one in the past couple months
[23:43] <Azelphur> and comcast abuse@ just ignores my emails \o/
[23:44] <Azelphur> very tempted to make a happy fun time thread on my forum with all the information I can gather (inc real name and home addresses) for everyone to play with \o/
[23:49] <Azelphur> popey: ^ you was in favour of abuse@ instead of posting before, any thoughts now? :D
[23:57] <Laney> how can you have a ddos from a single user?
[23:57] <Azelphur> Laney: because they say "Look at me I'm going to DDoS the server"
[23:57] <Azelphur> they tend to be rather obvious about doing it
[23:57] <Laney> not very distributed is it?
[23:58] <Azelphur> sure it is, it's a distributed attack instigated by one person
[23:58] <Azelphur> that's pretty much the norm with DDoS attacks
[23:58] <Laney> not sure what comcast are going to do about it then
[23:58] <penguin42> how can you tell they instigated it?
[23:59] <Azelphur> Laney: I sent them one when it wasn't even distributed for example
[23:59] <Azelphur> I sent connection logs, chat logs, packet dumps, multiple forum threads from other servers attacked by the same guy
[23:59] <Azelphur> and got no reply.