Kokitohello UbuntuStudio folks01:49
holsteinKokito: hey02:29
Kokitohow is it going holstein ?02:36
holsteinnot bad, working on a few blogs02:42
holsteinhttp://ashevilleoriginalmusicseries.blogspot.com/ for example 02:42
* holstein still working on content02:51
ScottLhi Kokito 03:01
ScottLsorry i disappeared the other day03:01
Kokitohey ScottL 03:01
Kokitothat's OK :)03:01
ScottLmy computer does these weird locks03:01
KokitoI also disappear quite frequently :)03:01
ScottLi can move the mouse but i can't change windows, pick anything, or switch desktops03:01
ScottLi can't even shut down properly, i end up holding the power down till it shuts down :(03:02
ScottLKokito, how is the website going?03:02
ScottLat some point i really need to give some serious thought to how/where information is going to be03:03
KokitoHave not had time/motivation to work on it lately; but I am sticking to the 6/16 deadline documented in the wiki :)03:06
holsteinScottL: tty?03:07
holsteinyou really *will* do something to the hard drive like that :/03:08
KokitoScottL: discussing/brainstorming what to put where can be done now; in fact, it has to happen now, as how the website evolves will depend on what needs to be supported.03:08
KokitoScottL: there are a number of questions poised in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Oneiric/Timeline#Update the website with regards to potential features that can be supported; there has been no discussion/decision on whether we want to implement each of them or not on the new website03:11
Kokitook, time for my evening coffee03:28
Kokitogoing out for a while. will be back later03:28
Kokitomy Chrome netbook keeps loosing its wifi signal :(05:02
ScottLi would be curious to see who fully understand's ralf's email to the -dev mailing list, i am afraid many of the topics are beyond my current understanding21:12
ScottLi think ailo_ probably has the best chance of explaining it to me ;)21:12
astraljavaScottL: Which emails are you specifically referring to? Granted, I haven't read every piece with thought, but nothing strikes as particularly odd.21:15
ScottLastraljava, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-May/003249.html21:18
* holstein 21:27
holsteini should appologize for that21:27
holsteini talked him into it21:27
holsteini just wasnt 100% clear with him21:27
=== rexbron_ is now known as rexbron
holsteini didnt mean to join the -dev list and rattle off request21:28
holsteini was hoping he would ask about CPU scalling being added to ubuntustudio controls21:28
holsteinwhich is actually a great ida21:28
rexbronSpeaking of Ubuntustudio-controls, how is that going?21:32
holsteini want to say ailo_ and paultag are colaborating on that?21:33
ailo_Ralph seems to talk more about his own specific issues I think, but I was interested in the cpu crequency scaling part21:38
ailo_I will code a simple usable controls that should be packaged and ready during June21:39
ailo_But, there are all kinds of ideas for improving the -controls21:39
ailo_rexbron, The current -controls would need to be updated. You're the original author, right?21:40
ailo_rexbron, Just a few changes for Lucid, and Maverick21:40
rexbronailo_: you can blame it one me ;)21:40
ScottLholstein, i'm glad we have his input...seriously21:41
ScottLtoo often things get brought out by just one person21:41
ailo_I'm not sure, if it started with Karmic or Lucid, but US-controls should not edit /etc/security/limits.conf anymore, since jackd creates /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf21:41
ScottLhi rexbron 21:42
holsteinScottL: ralph has C experience21:42
rexbronhey ScottL21:42
ScottLand ralf says he's not a coder :P21:43
holsteinit would be great if he transitioned from whiny list guy, to contributor21:43
rexbronlol neither was I when I wrote -controls21:43
holstein*im glad to have his input too 21:43
ailo_rexbron, My idea is to have a UbuntuStudio-controls that exists in the system-tray or indicator-tray, and at least let's you administer realtime prio for users21:43
holsteinrexbron: w0w, i didnt realize that was yours... cool :)21:43
rexbronailo_: I think that is a good idea21:43
ailo_rexbron, Since Natty, we don't need to mess with firewire21:43
rexbronholstein: the one any only piece of fuctional code I've ever distributed21:44
rexbronailo_: that's a plus21:44
ailo_rexbron, It would be great to include some other stuff, like pulse-jack bridge as an option21:44
rexbronI've been out of the loop for a while and am running stock ubuntu21:44
holsteinailo_: i think thats the only way we can21:45
* rexbron looks at the redesign page21:45
holsteini dont think it will ever trickly into the main repos21:45
rexbronpulse-jack being a seperate package?21:45
rexbronor is that getting pulse compiled with jack support21:46
holsteinrexbron: falk made it for KXstudio21:46
ailo_I still don't know what pulse-jack is. Isn't it just a script? flaktx has a solution to that anyhow21:46
persiaholstein, Is this different than the pulseaudio-module-jack we have?21:46
holsteinpersia: AFAIK, its very different21:46
holsteintheres a thread on the list that ScottL has been involved with21:46
holsteini think thats about what we have by default apparently that i wasnt aware of21:47
holsteinOR i dont know how to use21:47
holsteineither are likely ;)21:47
persiaWe don't have pulseaudio-module-jack by default.21:48
holsteinpersia: we = ubuntu?21:48
holsteinlike, its not in the repos at all?21:48
persiaAnd it doesn't have any special interface: if it's set up, pulse tries to register to jack on startup (which doesn't always work as expected, as JACK is often not running at that point)21:48
astraljavaScottL: Oh I see, I missed that one. Whee! :D21:49
persiaIt's in the repos, just not installed by default by any of the flavours (including Ubuntu Studio)21:49
holsteinpersia: maybe falk brings that in and uses it*21:49
persiaThat would make sense to me.  If it was "very different", I'd worry about duplication of effort, etc.21:49
ScottLailo_, i'm having trouble getting pulseaudio-module-jack to work as david h. has suggested on the mailing list21:50
holsteinScottL: im hoping to catch up with that thread21:50
holsteinhe made is sound simple21:50
holsteini personally didnt get it going til falks package, not that i tried terribly hard21:51
rexbronIs there a page for the ubuntustudio-controls redeisgn?21:51
ScottLholstein, aye, that he did....just didn't work for me yet21:51
ailo_rexbron, Are you interested in coding us-controls? I'm supposed to start soon, but I'm guessing you have a lot more experience in coding21:52
ailo_ScottL, holstein Seems to me falktx is the man to talk to about that21:52
rexbronailo_: lol, I'd be intersted in helping. As for coding skills, they are pretty pathetic21:52
* rexbron 's BFA counts for something though21:52
ScottLailo_, but he keeps doing stuff that we simply are not going to get into the repos21:52
ScottLailo_, i don't think solutions proposed by falktx are going to work for us21:53
rexbronWhat is the status about per-package uploading/ seeding domains? persia?21:53
ScottLi certainly wished it was otherwise21:53
ailo_ScottL, I think it would be good to pick out the things we can easily handle at least, and see if we can put them in21:53
ScottLrexbron, there is an older page about -controls update, would you like me to find it?21:54
persiarexbron, All the infrastructure is in place: it needs a request from the flavour (best if from the leader), and then individuals become eligible to apply.21:55
rexbronScottL: sure, I think we need to look at what exactly still is needed to be done with -controls21:55
ailo_rexbron: What we absolutely need is probably only administering realtime privilege for users. 21:57
ScottLrexbron, there are several to choose from :P   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign?highlight=%28ubuntustudio\-controls%2921:57
ailo_rexbron, paultag had the idea to make us-controls pluginable. This is something I've thought about too.21:57
persiaailo_, That should be rtkit.  I thought that the main outstanding bit was memlock control.21:57
rexbronailo_: plugin able? How so?21:58
ScottLpaultag had one but i can't find the webpage21:58
ailo_rexbron, The main application in a system-tray menu would be a system settings application21:58
ScottLrexbron, i have hoping to have ubuntustudio-dev set up soon as a delegated team within a couple of months for upload rights21:58
ailo_rexbron, If someone wants to add features for the controls, just add an application that will end up in the menu. That's my idea. Don't know if it will happen though21:59
rexbronailo_: simplier to just modify the source of controls21:59
ailo_persia, As far as I understand, rtkit will not be the way we get realtime privilege to jack21:59
ailo_rexbron, I've already made a new app. Just missing some python specific code.22:00
rexbronailo_: link me to the branch?22:00
persiaailo_, Is that because someone actively is opposed, or just because it wasn't done?  I thought the main reason it wasn't done yet was that it wasn't enough without a memlock solution.22:01
ailo_rexbron, I don't have the code up right now. I can upload it to gitorious..22:01
rexbronailo_: I don't know if this has been decided project wide but using bzr makes things integrate a lot better22:01
ailo_persia, I've only been talking with las. I have no idea who is working on that on the Debian/Ubuntu side22:01
rexbronailo_: also, there is already a -controls project on launchpad22:02
persiaailo_, Was there some decision from las that rtkit should not be used, or only the prior notes about it not solving the problems, so not worth doing?22:02
ailo_persia, I asked him if the way we access realtime privilege will change, for example using rtkit. He said no. He also doesn't think adjusting memlock is needed. He thinks memlock unlimited is fine. 22:04
persiamemlock unlimited *is* a change.22:05
persiaThat's why the configuration file is needed.22:05
persiaIf we had a way to do per-application memlock, it would make sense for JACK to request it.22:06
ailo_persia, I would like to find out if adjusting memlock has any positive effects, though. Some say they will have system lockups with memlock unlimited22:06
persiaand if that was happening, switching to rtkit at the same time makes sense.22:06
persiaThat's why ideally memlock should only be unlimited for jackd.22:06
persiaBut that requires writing memkit, or some similar thing.22:06
rexbronailo_: hit me up when you have the link, I'm curious to see what you've done :)22:07
persia(which I believe nobody has done)22:07
persiaBut now is a better time for ubuntustudio-controls: we're not going to fix the memlock-is-only-configurable-by-user/group issue within Ubuntu Studio.22:07
ailo_rexbron, Ok :P. It uses scripts to execute the commands, and I was not thinking of using it as a base - more as inspiration for a UbuntuStudio Controls system settings application.22:08
rexbronailo_: Scripts are fine, just import them into the app indicator22:08
rexbronailo_: I'm waiting ;)22:15
ailo_Working on it22:16
ailo_Just had to check it works first22:16
ailo_rexbron, git clone git://gitorious.org/old-uscontrols/old-uscontrols.git 22:21
ailo_rexbron, If you want to see it in action, add the files ending with *.sh to /usr/lib/ubuntustudio-controls22:21
ailo_To get the memlock value updated at each boot, I think it would be good to have a script that does that in /etc/init*. Just add a percentage value in /etc/ubuntustudio-controls and have the file /etc/security.limits.d/audio.conf be updated if needed. I'm thinking of the possibility that someone adds or removes memory from their system.22:24
rexbronailo_: that strikes me as a rather rare occurance22:27
rexbronsome general comments22:27
rexbronhaving seperate bash script files is less idea I think22:27
rexbronI guess what I don22:27
ailo_rexbron, This application was a hack, so only to be regarded as a design idea, nothing more22:27
rexbronI guess what I don't have is a grasp of what exactly needs to be done22:28
rexbronpeople still wish to set memlock22:29
ailo_rexbron, For me, I think administering realtime privilege is the firstmost important feature. The other to adjust memlock. Then, there are further ideas that can be explored and added. That is from what base I was intending to work from in the coming weeks. First code a simple but well functioning app, then add features if wanted or needed22:29
rexbronailo_: may I suggest a different design?22:30
ailo_rexbron, Sure22:30
rexbronif you go the appindicator route, I feel that it would be more accessable to users and more clearly focused in it's intent22:31
rexbronrather than a full fledged application22:31
ailo_rexbron, That's the way I want to go. Make an app indicator. I also have been working on a system check script in usermode that checks if user has realtime privilege and if user is running a lowlatency kernel22:32
ailo_I mean, make an indicator menu, with an item called "system-settings" where you can adjust some things22:32
ailo_Back to the system-check script: If user does not have the goodies for realtime audio, it announces that. 22:34
rexbronailo_: shouldn't they have those by default after installation?22:34
ailo_rexbron, Not if they use Ubuntu Vanilla as base22:34
rexbronailo_: I wouldn't consider those supported users22:35
ScottLailo_, rexbron , i wouldn't mind if -controls even expanded to help with turning pulse off/turn jack on, transport for jack, connections for jack, and/or even install new applications based on work flows22:35
ScottLbut this is "pie in the sky" stuff, not just mundane22:35
rexbronScottL: there are simpler, existing solutions for all of those imo22:35
rexbronScottL: at least with my vanilla ubuntu 11.04, pulse shuts off when jack is started22:36
rexbronthen restarts when it's closed22:36
rexbronIs that not the case in studio?22:36
ailo_I believe, since US is in the main repo, it should be directed to all Ubuntu users, not just Ubuntu Studio users. It's not a big stretch to let non technical users adjust their system for realtime audio by allowing us-controls to handle that. 22:39
rexbronI would argue that if they choose to go that route, then they are responsible for configuring their system but that's me22:40
* rexbron dislikes handholding22:40
persiaI'm also not in favour of handholding, but I don't believe we can safely rely on installer behaviour to dictate system behaviour, especially as the number of methods of installation keeps growing.22:42
rexbronfair enough22:43
rexbronbut where exactly do we draw the line?22:43
rexbronI guess I don't see do it once actions as being something to include in controls22:44
ailo_I don't like the idea of having all-in-one applications22:44
rexbronfor things like that, perhaps a gnome-system-controls item could be used22:44
rexbronbut that won't be included in xfce22:45
ailo_if us-controls would be pluginable, you could add apps like qjackctl to the menu22:45
persiaI don't think we want to stuff everything into ubuntustudio-controls.22:45
rexbronbut why?22:46
rexbronwhy would you want or need qjackctl in that meny22:46
rexbronmenu rather22:46
persiaIf you want qjackctl to be more tightly integrated, there are useful alternate tools to manage that.22:46
* rexbron mentions lash22:46
persiaWell, lash is deprecated these days in favour of ladish.22:47
persiaBut I was thinking of some of Hans Baier's work.22:47
persiae.g. jackpanel22:47
ailo_Another idea is having a multimedia app-manager, that has a different database of info, than the standard one22:48
persia(this isn't in the repos mostly because not enough people reviewed/advocated Hans' work, not because it isn't any good: Hans was even on this channel for a while)22:49
ailo_One thing that I liked about KXStudio was the list of applications that showed what they supported - ladspa, vst, etc22:51
ailo_That sort of oversight is often missing22:51
ScottLrexbron, re: pulse shuts off when jack is started...yes, that is currently the case, qjackctl.dekstop runs pasuspender first23:03
ailo_I believe jackd2 disables pa too, but not jackd123:05
ailo_If run from a terminal23:05
persiaThat's a bug, or rather a leftover workaround from a bug.23:06
persiaJACK should suspect pulse if pulse is using the sound card JACK is using, and ignore it otherwise.23:06
persiaFor extra points, if pulseaudio-module-jack is available, and JACK wants to use the sound card pulse is using, it should reconnect pulse as jack23:07
* persia gets tired of shaking and hides in a doorway23:07
ScottLpersia, i'm trying to work with david h. and get this resolved, but i'm not sure it works like everybody thinks it does23:08
persiaIt doesn't :)23:08
* ScottL thinks of princess bride "i don't not think that means what you think it means"23:09
persiaContinuing, reconnect pulse as JACK IO points, in case the user wants to do something, and to not annoy other sound-generating applications.23:09
ScottLpersia, weird, are you prescient?  because you answer that statement almost immediately after i hit enter :P23:09
persiaI live 15 or 16 hours in the future, so it's not quite as fast as you think it is :)23:10
ScottLoh, well that explains it and i feel much better now , prescient...pttthh!  you live in the future, now that i can believe :P23:11
ScottLailo_,  how do you find kxstudio listing supported applications helpful?23:11
persiaSo, I've reviewed the relevant thread.23:12
persiaThere's a few things that are messy.23:12
ailo_ScottL, Just seeing what sequencer works with what plugins and instruments make life a lot easier.23:12
persia1) The volume controls most folk use don't necessarily have a good view into JACK.23:13
ScottLailo_, ahhh, i can wrap my head around that...yes, i think that would be helpful23:13
persia2) Just creating inputs/outputs in JACK doesn't always do what the user expects23:13
persia3) We don't install integration by default23:13
persia4) Our helper tools don't invoke integration with the typical configuration.23:14
persia5) I've yet to see anything written on the issue that provides a generic solution for both the single-audio-interface and the multiple-audio-interface model.23:15
persiaailo_, I actually don't much like the idea of giving the users a big list of applications and telling them which bits work with which other bits: I'd rather try to pick a set of functionality to support, select apps to support that functionality, and make sure they can all use the same sorts of formats.23:15
persiaYes, this means we don't get all possible functionality, but it also makes it much more accessible to just get things done.23:16
ScottLpersia, to which thread are you referring?23:16
persiaAnd this reduces the number of folk who get frustrated and just go write their own tool from scratch (e.g. jokosher)23:16
ailo_persia, You mean select applications for a standard US install that supports the functions we want to use?23:17
persiaScottL, Subject "PulseAudio and Ubuntu Studio 11.10" starting from ckontros writing "As it is so tightly woven into Ubuntu, I suspect it will. We are however looking to better integrate JACK with PA. (seems like we've been trying this forever)"23:17
persiaailo_, Rather, the functions we intend to support as first-class use cases.  I'm not convinced that this will precisely match the functions any one of us wants to use.23:18
persiaThe idea is to pick sensible defaults for the majority case, and then make everything in those defaults work together.23:18
persiaThose with more specialised needs can select from a wider software set, with the expectation that other things may not work together quite as well.23:18
persiaWe can't fix all of Linux Audio (nor do I think this is a good idea: attempting to do so would stifle innovation), but we probably can help make sure a few applications to achieve some goal work together well, achieve common workflows, and are well documented.23:19
persia(mind you, these are my ideas: I don't expect everyone to agree :) )23:22
ScottLmy largest desire is to clean up the mess between jack and pulse....i think that will alleviate many headaches23:25
ailo_persia, I agree with you. I would rather have a small set of applications in a standard US install, that we know will work for the most common use cases, than have a full variety.23:26
persiaailo_, Heh, OK.  Sorry to jump on you: I just worry that we'll end up solving the problems that users complain about and miss solving the problems that cause few people to bother being users.23:27
ScottLi don't expect this, but i would like it for canonical to hire someone just to sort this out23:27
ScottLs/like it for/appreciate if23:27
ScottLas an aside, i started getting my nanokontrol set up :)23:28
persiaScottL, I think that if we patch qjackctl, and have it recommend pulseaudio-module-jack, and add an autoconnect script to pulseaudio-module-jack, and use jackdbus by default, we have a chance: in my mind the unsolved piece is that I don't believe the current setup works well for folks with multiple audio interfaces (like yourself).23:28
persiaIf waiting for Canonical to do things was how we did things, there would never have been an Ubuntu Studio.23:29
ScottLheh, very true persia 23:29
ailo_To inform users what they can use and how to use it, documentation/info is the first and most important way to do that, but if a multimedia app-manager would make things even easier, I wouldn't mind using that.23:29
persiaAs much as I appreciate all the contributions Canonical makes to Ubuntu, I feel very strongly that we can't rely on them to make sure our goals are met (meaning each of our individual goals, not just Ubuntu Studio goals)23:29
persiaailo_, It might, but my fear is that we'd be deluged with requests to add information about new/different application mixes, and it would become a support nightmare.  I could be wrong (and I typically don't do support)23:30
ScottLwell, if canonical would hire me for ubuntu studio, maybe i _could_ make them all happen :P23:30
persiaDo you think that Canonical would be markedly better at gaining money from your work on Ubuntu Studio than you could be yourself?23:31
ailo_persia, It would need to be a separate application no doubt. But, it would make sense having it a part of controls, if it were available in Debian repo for instance. Just entertaining the idea so far. 23:33
ScottLpersia, no i do not think so23:34
persiaailo_, I suppose.  I think it's a mountain or work, but we all need to do the things that we want to do, so if you think it's important, go ahead :)23:35
persiaScottL, In that case, I'll say you'd get paid better to work on Ubuntu Studio if you did it yourself.23:35
* persia tries to come up with three business models for Ubuntu Studio developers23:35
ailo_persia, I'm only concerned with the design of us-controls and what it could be used for in a longer perspective while making it very simple at first23:35
persia1) Provide installation/training/support services to "basement" studios in your city.23:36
persia2) Run a "basement" studio23:36
persia3) Use Ubuntu Studio and "found sounds" to generate soundfonts for use by foley artists23:36
persiaailo_, Personally, I think that the long-term goal should be to not have ubuntustudio-controls.23:37
ailo_persia, That would work too23:38
persiaFor packages we aren't sharing with other flavours, we should just patch them to do the right thing (sometimes this is hard, like JACK and memlock)23:38
persiaFor packages we are sharing with other flavours, we should try to find common default configurations: if this is impossible, we should extend the package to allow drop-in default snippets (for examples, look at how gconf-defaults works, or gdm)23:39
persiaAnd in certain special cases where we can't come to agreement, we should fork (examples are the variety of linux-* packages in the archive, or having both "mutter" and "metacity")23:40
* saidinesh5 really wanted something like GetHotNewStuff for Soundfonts ....... download and share all the freesound fonts23:40
persiasaidinesh5, Last I knew, there were about 3 free soundfonts.  The tools need a bit of work, and the soundfont community needs a fair bit of cultural adjustment to generate free artifacts.23:41
saidinesh5persia: over the last few years i ve collected a lot of nice and free soundfonts in the public domain23:42
persiaUnfortunately, "the public domain" is meaningless in most countries.23:42
saidinesh5as in?23:43
persiaWhich then causes such soundfonts to revert to regular copyright models, which makes it a crime to distribute them.23:43
persiaI believe that the UK is the only EU member that recognises "public domain", just to pick a few examples.23:43
saidinesh5but the creators themselves say "do whatever you want"23:43
persiaThey need to do that in a way that is binding.23:43
persiaCreative Commons has some good licenses.23:44
ScottLpersia, for business models, troy_s had a good one of getting ubuntu studio into educational institutions and then charging for support23:44
saidinesh5well ScottL are we really ready for that ??23:45
persiasaidinesh5, Don't get me wrong: I'm *really* happy with the growth in the zero-cost soundfont community: there are some tools bugs, but lots of the rest can be solved with education.23:45
persiaScottL, I know several people who do educational support to fund their work in Ubuntu: apparently it's highly personally satisfying, although dealing with the School Boards to get in can be annoying.23:46
ScottLsaidinesh5, it the person knows the ins-and-outs of ubuntu studio and can do after installation setup :)23:46
saidinesh5persia: and especially with musicians have 0 tolerance for any fuss23:46
persiasaidinesh5, Depends on the musician, but often, yeah, one doesn't bother learning about contracts until one has an agent who does that for one.23:47
saidinesh5i tried to get my friends try things out and installation itself is the end of the story23:47
ckontrosI'm not gonna chime in on the technical stuff on the list (as I here for 1 thing really) but VST support from packages in the official repos won't happen.23:48
saidinesh5but there are a lot of free VSTs which work natively.. arent they?23:49
persiaWell, at least not before 13.1023:50
persiasaidinesh5, Steinberg would have to extend a license to someone to be able to ship a working host.  There's debate in the area, but most folk try to avoid violating known patents.23:51
ckontrossaidinesh5: IIRC simply having VST support means having packages like Ardour with support for ALL VSTs. Unless something has changes lately.23:51
saidinesh5no but the free implementation of VST standard?23:51
* ckontros will let persia handle this.23:52
persiackontros, Well, there was VST 3.5 in February: I'm not sure that any of the hosts we have support 3.5 yet.23:52
saidinesh5a good support for VST 2.x itself is a big deal though23:52
saidinesh5ardour 3 does midi too right?23:54
ckontrospersia: Has the implementation been "freed" in some way? A new free version of VST?23:54
persiasaidinesh5, My understanding is that there are some implementations that attempt to support some versions of VST, for which there is free code, a couple issues occur:23:54
* saidinesh5 has really lost touch with the multimedia apps in foss world for the last 2 years ....... hoping to get back to all of them now that he has graduated23:54
persia1) There are some patents (starting in 1996) on VST technologies, which would need to be licensed to sell a product (and Ubuntu Studio must be able to be sold).23:55
ckontrossaidinesh5: Are you Ralf? (from the list)23:55
saidinesh5ckontros: nope... just got interested in ubuntu studio (once again) just a few days ago23:56
persia2) There are some dependencies in many VSTs that require them to be run in Windows, or in WINE.  Since WINE is virus-compatible with Windows, we probably want to think several times before installing it by default (note that we did install it by default last I looked).23:56
ckontrossaidinesh5: Ok. I was wondering.23:56
saidinesh5persia: iirc there are some native linux vsts too23:57
saidinesh5we can start with them ?23:57
persiasaidinesh5, Sure.  Just get a license from Steinberg to distribute a VST host under a license that allows those to whom you distribute it to to redistribute it.23:58
persiathen grant that license to your favorite open source VST host, and watch it become everyone's favorite within a month.23:58
ckontrosholstein: Mention to Ralf that saying things like "I can try to help a little bit, but I'm not a coder and I don't want to spend too much time with testing etc. any more." really isn't the best way motivate anyone to help work on things. ;)23:59
saidinesh5persia: how about Vestige?23:59
saidinesh5the way the lmms folks do it23:59

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