/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/05/22/#ubuntu-ops.txt

rwwIdleOne, ldunn: Today in "There's a factoid for that!", I give you !ra02:10
ldunn"Relationship advice is not available in ubottu"02:11
ldunnJust in case they planned to ask the bot?02:12
rww!+ra02:12
ubottu<reply> Relationship advice is not available in $chan. If you want to chat about other offtopic matters try #ubuntu-offtopic. If you need to talk something through with a professional counsellor there is a global directory of support services at http://befrienders.org02:12
rwwyay variables!02:12
ldunnoh, nice :P02:12
IdleOne!ra02:22
ubottuRelationship advice is not available in #ubuntu-ops. If you want to chat about other offtopic matters try #ubuntu-offtopic. If you need to talk something through with a professional counsellor there is a global directory of support services at http://befrienders.org02:22
IdleOnewell look at that02:22
IdleOnemost useful factoid ever02:22
rwwalrighty, down to 322 *list items in #ubuntu :)06:10
* rww tips hat to Jordan_U 06:10
Coreyrww: Yeah, it's about time for a massive ban and quiet clearing.07:04
rwwCorey: 64% full, that's low for that dang channel.07:04
Coreyrww: Yes, but a lot of them are set on dynamic IPs and are ancient.07:05
Jordan_UWhen are we getting eir?07:05
Coreyrww: I probably should have asked this before, but my default response to trolling is a ten minute autoremoving quiet.07:05
rwwCorey: Yeah, I've been grabbing hostnames with "dyn" in them, but haven't found a way to figure out if an IP address is dynamic yet.07:06
CoreyIf that doesn't work, a kickban is usually my approach.07:06
CoreyIs a banforward to here the "better" way?07:06
rwwI usually only banforward if it's something that I need to talk to the user about but can't talk to them about right now. Problematic /quit messages are a good example.07:06
rwwalthough it looks like there are ten or so banforwards here in all, so maybe others do it for another reason07:07
Jordan_UCorey: If you quiet someone you should PM them explaining why (even though 95% of the time it should be painfully obvious) and link them to the channel guidelines.07:07
CoreyI don't have high hopes for wndowsuser. :-/07:08
rwwindeed07:08
CoreyLooks like IdleOne picked him up for now.07:09
IdleOneugh07:10
Jordan_UCorey: The standard pattern (that I've experienced at least) is 1: You quiet them 2: You PM them politely explaining why 3: (often happens before you have time for #2) they abuse you in PM 4: They get their quiet changed to a ban for being even worse in PM07:10
rwwJordan_U: When the bots team isn't horribly understaffed, I'd guess.07:10
CoreyJordan_U: As a general rule I don't act in channel for what they do to me in PM.07:11
IdleOneI should just let Corey handle this one. it will be a good exercise in how to not kill someone07:11
CoreyIdleOne: This is tame comparatively. :-)07:11
CoreySome of our cross channel issues make this look like a cakewalk. :-)07:11
rwwIdleOne: or /kill, in Corey's case ;P07:11
IdleOnerww: that is what I meant :)07:11
CoreyIdleOne: Spoilsport. :-p07:16
rwwIdleOne: See, I'm not the only one who thinks that :(07:18
IdleOnejealous the lot of you are just jealous.07:18
IdleOnenext time ban before I do. I am trying to get back into the top 3 at least of ops with most bans07:19
rwwI'm jealous of the time when I could op random people in #ubuntu-offtopic without worrying they might attempt to op the entire channel.07:19
rwwYes I am still on that.07:19
rww;P07:19
IdleOneI wonder if that had anything to do....nahhh07:20
Jordan_Urww: What gave you the confidence to do that before?07:20
rwwRun for IRCC, find out!07:20
rwwJordan_U: Sometimes my judgement is bad.07:20
CoreyNext year. :-p07:20
IdleOneCorey: you need to be a ubuntu/member first07:21
rwwOne day my practice of emailing irc-council@ with opinions about everyone running for ops will backfire on me.07:21
elkyIdleOne, once upon a time, that was a prereq for being op, so...07:22
CoreyYeah, I should get together an application for ubuntu/member at some point.07:22
rwwelky: apparently this was before bazhang and ikonia, so I presume it was during the stone age07:22
elkyrww, in The Age of Seveas.07:22
IdleOneI got ops before membership07:22
rwwelky: Why do I never hear good things about that Age?07:23
IdleOneit was a tumultuous time07:23
elkyI think LjL and I were the last under that particular rule though.07:23
IdleOneVolcanoes and Floods07:23
rwwand worst of all, no rww07:23
elkyrww, depends how much you hear via questionable channels.07:23
elkyrww, we're talking a time <1000 in #u07:24
IdleOneI vaguely remember #u being <100007:25
ldunnNostalgia hour!07:25
rwwIdleOne: netsplits don't count07:25
IdleOneldunn: you were only 7 in those days07:25
Jordan_UI do to, on releases people would go crazy that it was going over 1000.07:25
ldunnIdleOne: wait. Was I actually? How long ago are we talking here07:25
Jordan_U*too07:25
CoreyTell me more about the great war?07:26
IdleOneldunn: 6 years ago07:26
ldunnIdleOne: I'm not 13 :(07:26
IdleOnehehe07:26
rwwldunn was in primary school when Ubuntu started07:26
IdleOneremember Corey is staff if you admit not being 13 he has to remove you07:26
CoreySomehow they've never told me about that rule.07:26
ldunnReally?07:26
IdleOnesecond rule of opping, make rules up as you go.07:27
ldunnCOPPA violations are bad!07:27
Coreyldunn: Heh, how old are you?07:27
ldunnCorey: 15 now07:27
IdleOneit's a trap!07:27
rwwthird rule of opping, justify second rule using Guidelines07:27
CoreyWas gonna say, your account is a few years old. :-)07:27
ldunnYeah. Old enough to be a COPPA violation!07:28
rwwrepeat after me, "Recommendations from channel operators, including those stored in the channel bots, should be followed."07:28
ldunnto have been*07:28
Coreyrww: How do I view those?07:28
rww!guidelines07:28
ubottuThe guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines07:28
rwwhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines also07:28
IdleOneHow did you get ops not knowing the rules?07:28
Coreyrww: Ah, I thought we could notate  bans somewhere in a tracker.07:28
IdleOnehehe07:28
ldunnIdleOne: He's a staffer, he can do what he likes07:29
IdleOnetrue07:29
rwwCorey: say @login07:29
Jordan_UCorey: /msg ubottu @btlogin07:29
IdleOnesay it07:29
* ldunn chants07:29
Corey@login07:29
ubottuThe operation succeeded.07:29
CoreyWhee.07:29
rwwCorey: say @btlogin, check PM07:30
Corey@btlogin07:30
rwwCorey: That URL is secret, btw.07:30
IdleOneyes, log readers we have secret URL's07:30
CoreyHah, I have bans in there.07:30
IdleOnesecret channels and secret secrets07:31
tonyyarussoSecret recipes07:31
rwwoh, something that probably applies to you: don't set +q using chanserv, op and set it yourself. It's hard for me to complain at you for having too many bans set if I can't tell it's you :(07:32
tonyyarussoWhy do you think they do it?  :P07:32
CoreyOh good, everything I did has been removed.07:32
rwwtonyyarusso: additional incentive: I remove ChanServ quiets rather often ;P07:33
rwwwhich reminds me, #ubuntu's akick list is a freaking mess07:33
tsimpsonoh, and we know the bantracker sucks, so no need to tell us about it :)07:33
CoreyYeah, I'm far more used to Eir's syntax.07:33
rwwand I can't touch akick, so someone who can should look at it at some point ;P07:35
CoreyApparently I can.07:35
CoreyI'm trying to figure out if that's because I'm staff, or because of my flags set personally on me.07:35
rwwwe have the same flags set, so...07:36
tonyyarusso+Votia!  Whatever that means...07:36
CoreyYeah, but I have additional flags due to my cloak.07:36
CoreyI also have _r.07:36
Corey+r, even.07:36
tonyyarussoerr, votiA rather07:36
CoreyI may just be able to view the list.07:37
CoreyI didn't try altering it any.07:37
rwwtonyyarusso: ability to use voice/devoice commands, ability to use op/deop commands, ability to modify topic through chanserv, ability to use invite and getkey commands, ability to view channel access lists07:38
tsimpsonI think the A lets you see the AKICK list07:38
rwwldunn: do /msg chanserv akick #ubuntu list and see if you can see it ;P07:39
ldunnnope07:39
IdleOneI see it07:39
ldunnNot that I'm an op there or anything07:40
rwwldunn: that was the point yo07:40
ldunnGood.07:40
bazhangoh the 5.10 user08:49
bazhangthis is the guy who used to come in saying things like "my bunty broke" and he wanted to install ubuntu to his bmw via the cd player08:51
elkylol09:24
IdleOnehaha that would be pretty neat actually14:53
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join (1701 users, 1 overflows, 1702 limit))17:54
oCean@mark #ubuntu thauriswulfa abusive in pm after pointing out that his (obfuscated) swearing is not allowed19:45
ubottuThe operation succeeded.19:45
rwwRevSpecies116 and SlagDooM are about to exit #ubuntu.21:10
oCeanI had no response from SlagDoom in pm21:16
oCeanmeh, now he's in -nl21:17
rwwwhat is with all the annoying people from -nl recently21:17
oCeanhe's telling in -nl how he was kidding around in #u, and he got banned..21:18
LjLrww: if only seveas was still there they'd all be banned before they manage to find out there are other channels!21:18
rwwoCean: totally unsurprised21:18
phillwhiyas guys, I understand you want me to flush the ban list from #lubuntu?21:19
rww... no?21:19
SlagDooMhello linux friends21:19
SlagDooMcould someone please unban me in #ubuntu ?21:20
rwwphillw: MichealH was discussing #lubuntu in #ubuntu-irc and I mentioned off-hand that the ban set in #lubuntu isn't valid any more. I guess a game of telephone happened from there.21:20
phillwmy liasion on #freenode (nhandler) is afk, so I'm not too sure what you require me to do?21:20
SlagDooMi was making some jokes, but someone thougt it was too much21:20
rwwphillw: We don't require you to do anything, there was apparently a miscommunication.21:20
SlagDooMthought21:20
rwwSlagDooM: Trolling is not permitted in #ubuntu. The purpose of the channel is to get Ubuntu technical support, not to mess around.21:20
SlagDooMi didn't know that making jokes wasn't allowd21:21
rww!guidelines | SlagDooM21:21
ubottuSlagDooM: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines21:21
rwwPlease read those and let me know when you've done so.21:21
SlagDooMok, i thought it was just a channel to chat about ubuntu in general21:21
rwwIt's not. Try #ubuntu-offtopic for non-support discussion.21:21
SlagDooMah ok :)21:21
SlagDooMi understand now21:21
LjLphillw: rww mentioned that the ban in #lubuntu is a dynamic host, so you may as well remove it since the host will have changed in the meanwhile. there was no requirement to do anything21:21
rwwSlagDooM: Okay. Can you read that guidelines link to make sure you know the rest of #ubuntu's rules, please?21:21
phillwrww. thanks for the clarification, it is even more important that #ubuntu-ops and #lubuntu work closely together as lubuntu reaches full adoption, hence my having no hesitation on setting the flags for the ubuntu-ops people on the #lubuntu channel. It's been a while since Canonical gave birth to a new 'baby' :P21:23
SlagDooMok i've read it21:25
rwwSlagDooM: Is there anything in there you don't understand? Are you going to follow those rules when I unban you?21:25
* phillw would make them sign CoC.21:25
SlagDooMwell there's nothing really surprising in that text21:26
rwwphillw: If you haven't already, you might want to chat with the IRC Council people and get some feedback from them about how best the two teams can work together.21:26
rwwphillw: Since there are a few levels of "officialness"/"core"ness, and different ones work for different channels. And I know a lot of the IRC people are wondering where exactly Lubuntu fits right now :)21:27
SlagDooMa simple kick would've been sufficient imo, but anyway21:27
rww(btw, I'm glad to hear you guys are an official derivative now :)21:27
rwwSlagDooM: alrighty, so you understand those rules and will follow them?21:27
SlagDooMsure21:27
rwwokay, one sec please21:27
phillwrww: my ex mentor for UBT was Nathan Handler, I am sure we will comply (else he will kill me!).21:28
rwwSlagDooM: alrighty, your ban's been removed. Please be aware of the guidelines in future, and that future bans are harder to get rid of :)21:28
rwwphillw: hehehe21:28
phillwrww, how do I get a quick list of bans?21:29
SlagDooMrww ok, thanks :)21:29
rwwphillw: /mode #channelname b21:29
oCeanSlagDooM: as this channel has a no-idling policy, please /part21:34
phillwthanks rww, now I've had another read through the http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml and whilst it told me how to do it, it does not, to me, say how to clear it :/21:35
phillw(21:30:17) Ban on *!*@catv-80-98-106-81.catv.broadband.hu by asimov.freenode.net, set 47 days, 4 hours, 36 minutes ago21:35
phillw(21:30:18) End of ban list21:35
LjLhow to remove the ban you mean?21:35
LjL/mode #channel -b blah!blah@blah21:35
rwwphillw: op up (/msg chanserv op #lubuntu phillw), then /mode #lubuntu -b *!*@catv-80-98-106-81.catv.broadband.hu21:35
rwwthen deop (/deop phillw)21:35
phillwdonme.. although I do use the admin robot for such things, I know he's not really allowed on there, it is just on the non adopted channels I've got used to his command structure, as have other admins so I'll get him to /join, do the admin work and then immediately part. Do you guys have a problem with that?21:41
rwwphillw: #lubuntu isn't a core channel, so it's not managed by us, so you can essentially do what you want ;)21:41
phillwrww: but it will be, what then for fate of DragonEyes? Do I have to ban our guys from using him?21:42
LjLphillw: depends on what exactly it does, but there's nothing particular against having bots doing some of the house cleaning for you (#ubuntu has that)21:43
phillwthey know he is only allowed on for as long as a command sequence needs to be made and must then leave.21:43
rwwphillw: If #lubuntu becomes a core channel, then ubottu would be in there, and any additional bots would need to get IRCC approval and be listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots . If it just does operating stuff, I'd recommend learning how to do that yourselves.21:43
phillwLjL: he's an admin bot, hopuse clearance21:44
phillwrww we already have ubottu and logbot on there.21:44
rwwphillw: no, you have ubot5 on there ;P21:44
rwwanyways, it's time for me to go to work. ttyl everyone.21:45
phillwrww, if you'd like to split hairs, each ubot is updated hourly from ubottu by a cron job? I know the log bot runs hourly. I was the one who asked for them both :)21:45
phillwtc21:46
LjLphillw: i think that's how it works yes, but don't quote me on that21:46
rwwphillw: It's not splitting hairs. ubottu does bantracking. ubot5 and the other clones don't.21:46
rwwLjL: it is, yeah21:46
* phillw can feel a headace coming on when nathan expalins this all to me!21:47
rwwThe more I think about it, the more I believe I should sit down with a significant amount of coffee and document everything these is to know about IRC team stuff ;)21:49
LjLyou're OCD enough to do that21:50
phillwrww: nathan has an excellent set of notes out, it is just that rearely, thankfuilly, that we need to discuss banning / de-voicing etc.21:50
* popey would appreciate such documentation too22:07

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