[02:10] <rww> IdleOne, ldunn: Today in "There's a factoid for that!", I give you !ra
[02:11] <ldunn> "Relationship advice is not available in ubottu"
[02:12] <ldunn> Just in case they planned to ask the bot?
[02:12] <rww> !+ra
 Relationship advice is not available in $chan. If you want to chat about other offtopic matters try #ubuntu-offtopic. If you need to talk something through with a professional counsellor there is a global directory of support services at http://befrienders.org
[02:12] <rww> yay variables!
[02:12] <ldunn> oh, nice :P
[02:22] <IdleOne> !ra
[02:22] <IdleOne> well look at that
[02:22] <IdleOne> most useful factoid ever
[06:10] <rww> alrighty, down to 322 *list items in #ubuntu :)
[06:10]  * rww tips hat to Jordan_U 
[07:04] <Corey> rww: Yeah, it's about time for a massive ban and quiet clearing.
[07:04] <rww> Corey: 64% full, that's low for that dang channel.
[07:05] <Corey> rww: Yes, but a lot of them are set on dynamic IPs and are ancient.
[07:05] <Jordan_U> When are we getting eir?
[07:05] <Corey> rww: I probably should have asked this before, but my default response to trolling is a ten minute autoremoving quiet.
[07:06] <rww> Corey: Yeah, I've been grabbing hostnames with "dyn" in them, but haven't found a way to figure out if an IP address is dynamic yet.
[07:06] <Corey> If that doesn't work, a kickban is usually my approach.
[07:06] <Corey> Is a banforward to here the "better" way?
[07:06] <rww> I usually only banforward if it's something that I need to talk to the user about but can't talk to them about right now. Problematic /quit messages are a good example.
[07:07] <rww> although it looks like there are ten or so banforwards here in all, so maybe others do it for another reason
[07:07] <Jordan_U> Corey: If you quiet someone you should PM them explaining why (even though 95% of the time it should be painfully obvious) and link them to the channel guidelines.
[07:08] <Corey> I don't have high hopes for wndowsuser. :-/
[07:08] <rww> indeed
[07:09] <Corey> Looks like IdleOne picked him up for now.
[07:10] <IdleOne> ugh
[07:10] <Jordan_U> Corey: The standard pattern (that I've experienced at least) is 1: You quiet them 2: You PM them politely explaining why 3: (often happens before you have time for #2) they abuse you in PM 4: They get their quiet changed to a ban for being even worse in PM
[07:10] <rww> Jordan_U: When the bots team isn't horribly understaffed, I'd guess.
[07:11] <Corey> Jordan_U: As a general rule I don't act in channel for what they do to me in PM.
[07:11] <IdleOne> I should just let Corey handle this one. it will be a good exercise in how to not kill someone
[07:11] <Corey> IdleOne: This is tame comparatively. :-)
[07:11] <Corey> Some of our cross channel issues make this look like a cakewalk. :-)
[07:11] <rww> IdleOne: or /kill, in Corey's case ;P
[07:11] <IdleOne> rww: that is what I meant :)
[07:16] <Corey> IdleOne: Spoilsport. :-p
[07:18] <rww> IdleOne: See, I'm not the only one who thinks that :(
[07:18] <IdleOne> jealous the lot of you are just jealous.
[07:19] <IdleOne> next time ban before I do. I am trying to get back into the top 3 at least of ops with most bans
[07:19] <rww> I'm jealous of the time when I could op random people in #ubuntu-offtopic without worrying they might attempt to op the entire channel.
[07:19] <rww> Yes I am still on that.
[07:19] <rww> ;P
[07:20] <IdleOne> I wonder if that had anything to do....nahhh
[07:20] <Jordan_U> rww: What gave you the confidence to do that before?
[07:20] <rww> Run for IRCC, find out!
[07:20] <rww> Jordan_U: Sometimes my judgement is bad.
[07:20] <Corey> Next year. :-p
[07:21] <IdleOne> Corey: you need to be a ubuntu/member first
[07:21] <rww> One day my practice of emailing irc-council@ with opinions about everyone running for ops will backfire on me.
[07:22] <elky> IdleOne, once upon a time, that was a prereq for being op, so...
[07:22] <Corey> Yeah, I should get together an application for ubuntu/member at some point.
[07:22] <rww> elky: apparently this was before bazhang and ikonia, so I presume it was during the stone age
[07:22] <elky> rww, in The Age of Seveas.
[07:22] <IdleOne> I got ops before membership
[07:23] <rww> elky: Why do I never hear good things about that Age?
[07:23] <IdleOne> it was a tumultuous time
[07:23] <elky> I think LjL and I were the last under that particular rule though.
[07:23] <IdleOne> Volcanoes and Floods
[07:23] <rww> and worst of all, no rww
[07:23] <elky> rww, depends how much you hear via questionable channels.
[07:24] <elky> rww, we're talking a time <1000 in #u
[07:25] <IdleOne> I vaguely remember #u being <1000
[07:25] <ldunn> Nostalgia hour!
[07:25] <rww> IdleOne: netsplits don't count
[07:25] <IdleOne> ldunn: you were only 7 in those days
[07:25] <Jordan_U> I do to, on releases people would go crazy that it was going over 1000.
[07:25] <ldunn> IdleOne: wait. Was I actually? How long ago are we talking here
[07:25] <Jordan_U> *too
[07:26] <Corey> Tell me more about the great war?
[07:26] <IdleOne> ldunn: 6 years ago
[07:26] <ldunn> IdleOne: I'm not 13 :(
[07:26] <IdleOne> hehe
[07:26] <rww> ldunn was in primary school when Ubuntu started
[07:26] <IdleOne> remember Corey is staff if you admit not being 13 he has to remove you
[07:26] <Corey> Somehow they've never told me about that rule.
[07:26] <ldunn> Really?
[07:27] <IdleOne> second rule of opping, make rules up as you go.
[07:27] <ldunn> COPPA violations are bad!
[07:27] <Corey> ldunn: Heh, how old are you?
[07:27] <ldunn> Corey: 15 now
[07:27] <IdleOne> it's a trap!
[07:27] <rww> third rule of opping, justify second rule using Guidelines
[07:27] <Corey> Was gonna say, your account is a few years old. :-)
[07:28] <ldunn> Yeah. Old enough to be a COPPA violation!
[07:28] <rww> repeat after me, "Recommendations from channel operators, including those stored in the channel bots, should be followed."
[07:28] <ldunn> to have been*
[07:28] <Corey> rww: How do I view those?
[07:28] <rww> !guidelines
[07:28] <rww> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines also
[07:28] <IdleOne> How did you get ops not knowing the rules?
[07:28] <Corey> rww: Ah, I thought we could notate  bans somewhere in a tracker.
[07:28] <IdleOne> hehe
[07:29] <ldunn> IdleOne: He's a staffer, he can do what he likes
[07:29] <IdleOne> true
[07:29] <rww> Corey: say @login
[07:29] <Jordan_U> Corey: /msg ubottu @btlogin
[07:29] <IdleOne> say it
[07:29]  * ldunn chants
[07:29] <Corey> @login
[07:29] <Corey> Whee.
[07:30] <rww> Corey: say @btlogin, check PM
[07:30] <Corey> @btlogin
[07:30] <rww> Corey: That URL is secret, btw.
[07:30] <IdleOne> yes, log readers we have secret URL's
[07:30] <Corey> Hah, I have bans in there.
[07:31] <IdleOne> secret channels and secret secrets
[07:31] <tonyyarusso> Secret recipes
[07:32] <rww> oh, something that probably applies to you: don't set +q using chanserv, op and set it yourself. It's hard for me to complain at you for having too many bans set if I can't tell it's you :(
[07:32] <tonyyarusso> Why do you think they do it?  :P
[07:32] <Corey> Oh good, everything I did has been removed.
[07:33] <rww> tonyyarusso: additional incentive: I remove ChanServ quiets rather often ;P
[07:33] <rww> which reminds me, #ubuntu's akick list is a freaking mess
[07:33] <tsimpson> oh, and we know the bantracker sucks, so no need to tell us about it :)
[07:33] <Corey> Yeah, I'm far more used to Eir's syntax.
[07:35] <rww> and I can't touch akick, so someone who can should look at it at some point ;P
[07:35] <Corey> Apparently I can.
[07:35] <Corey> I'm trying to figure out if that's because I'm staff, or because of my flags set personally on me.
[07:36] <rww> we have the same flags set, so...
[07:36] <tonyyarusso> +Votia!  Whatever that means...
[07:36] <Corey> Yeah, but I have additional flags due to my cloak.
[07:36] <Corey> I also have _r.
[07:36] <Corey> +r, even.
[07:36] <tonyyarusso> err, votiA rather
[07:37] <Corey> I may just be able to view the list.
[07:37] <Corey> I didn't try altering it any.
[07:38] <rww> tonyyarusso: ability to use voice/devoice commands, ability to use op/deop commands, ability to modify topic through chanserv, ability to use invite and getkey commands, ability to view channel access lists
[07:38] <tsimpson> I think the A lets you see the AKICK list
[07:39] <rww> ldunn: do /msg chanserv akick #ubuntu list and see if you can see it ;P
[07:39] <ldunn> nope
[07:39] <IdleOne> I see it
[07:40] <ldunn> Not that I'm an op there or anything
[07:40] <rww> ldunn: that was the point yo
[07:40] <ldunn> Good.
[08:49] <bazhang> oh the 5.10 user
[08:51] <bazhang> this is the guy who used to come in saying things like "my bunty broke" and he wanted to install ubuntu to his bmw via the cd player
[09:24] <elky> lol
[14:53] <IdleOne> haha that would be pretty neat actually
[19:45] <oCean> @mark #ubuntu thauriswulfa abusive in pm after pointing out that his (obfuscated) swearing is not allowed
[21:10] <rww> RevSpecies116 and SlagDooM are about to exit #ubuntu.
[21:16] <oCean> I had no response from SlagDoom in pm
[21:17] <oCean> meh, now he's in -nl
[21:17] <rww> what is with all the annoying people from -nl recently
[21:18] <oCean> he's telling in -nl how he was kidding around in #u, and he got banned..
[21:18] <LjL> rww: if only seveas was still there they'd all be banned before they manage to find out there are other channels!
[21:18] <rww> oCean: totally unsurprised
[21:19] <phillw> hiyas guys, I understand you want me to flush the ban list from #lubuntu?
[21:19] <rww> ... no?
[21:19] <SlagDooM> hello linux friends
[21:20] <SlagDooM> could someone please unban me in #ubuntu ?
[21:20] <rww> phillw: MichealH was discussing #lubuntu in #ubuntu-irc and I mentioned off-hand that the ban set in #lubuntu isn't valid any more. I guess a game of telephone happened from there.
[21:20] <phillw> my liasion on #freenode (nhandler) is afk, so I'm not too sure what you require me to do?
[21:20] <SlagDooM> i was making some jokes, but someone thougt it was too much
[21:20] <rww> phillw: We don't require you to do anything, there was apparently a miscommunication.
[21:20] <SlagDooM> thought
[21:20] <rww> SlagDooM: Trolling is not permitted in #ubuntu. The purpose of the channel is to get Ubuntu technical support, not to mess around.
[21:21] <SlagDooM> i didn't know that making jokes wasn't allowd
[21:21] <rww> !guidelines | SlagDooM
[21:21] <rww> Please read those and let me know when you've done so.
[21:21] <SlagDooM> ok, i thought it was just a channel to chat about ubuntu in general
[21:21] <rww> It's not. Try #ubuntu-offtopic for non-support discussion.
[21:21] <SlagDooM> ah ok :)
[21:21] <SlagDooM> i understand now
[21:21] <LjL> phillw: rww mentioned that the ban in #lubuntu is a dynamic host, so you may as well remove it since the host will have changed in the meanwhile. there was no requirement to do anything
[21:21] <rww> SlagDooM: Okay. Can you read that guidelines link to make sure you know the rest of #ubuntu's rules, please?
[21:23] <phillw> rww. thanks for the clarification, it is even more important that #ubuntu-ops and #lubuntu work closely together as lubuntu reaches full adoption, hence my having no hesitation on setting the flags for the ubuntu-ops people on the #lubuntu channel. It's been a while since Canonical gave birth to a new 'baby' :P
[21:25] <SlagDooM> ok i've read it
[21:25] <rww> SlagDooM: Is there anything in there you don't understand? Are you going to follow those rules when I unban you?
[21:25]  * phillw would make them sign CoC.
[21:26] <SlagDooM> well there's nothing really surprising in that text
[21:26] <rww> phillw: If you haven't already, you might want to chat with the IRC Council people and get some feedback from them about how best the two teams can work together.
[21:27] <rww> phillw: Since there are a few levels of "officialness"/"core"ness, and different ones work for different channels. And I know a lot of the IRC people are wondering where exactly Lubuntu fits right now :)
[21:27] <SlagDooM> a simple kick would've been sufficient imo, but anyway
[21:27] <rww> (btw, I'm glad to hear you guys are an official derivative now :)
[21:27] <rww> SlagDooM: alrighty, so you understand those rules and will follow them?
[21:27] <SlagDooM> sure
[21:27] <rww> okay, one sec please
[21:28] <phillw> rww: my ex mentor for UBT was Nathan Handler, I am sure we will comply (else he will kill me!).
[21:28] <rww> SlagDooM: alrighty, your ban's been removed. Please be aware of the guidelines in future, and that future bans are harder to get rid of :)
[21:28] <rww> phillw: hehehe
[21:29] <phillw> rww, how do I get a quick list of bans?
[21:29] <SlagDooM> rww ok, thanks :)
[21:29] <rww> phillw: /mode #channelname b
[21:34] <oCean> SlagDooM: as this channel has a no-idling policy, please /part
[21:35] <phillw> thanks rww, now I've had another read through the http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml and whilst it told me how to do it, it does not, to me, say how to clear it :/
[21:35] <phillw> (21:30:17) Ban on *!*@catv-80-98-106-81.catv.broadband.hu by asimov.freenode.net, set 47 days, 4 hours, 36 minutes ago
[21:35] <phillw> (21:30:18) End of ban list
[21:35] <LjL> how to remove the ban you mean?
[21:35] <LjL> /mode #channel -b blah!blah@blah
[21:35] <rww> phillw: op up (/msg chanserv op #lubuntu phillw), then /mode #lubuntu -b *!*@catv-80-98-106-81.catv.broadband.hu
[21:35] <rww> then deop (/deop phillw)
[21:41] <phillw> donme.. although I do use the admin robot for such things, I know he's not really allowed on there, it is just on the non adopted channels I've got used to his command structure, as have other admins so I'll get him to /join, do the admin work and then immediately part. Do you guys have a problem with that?
[21:41] <rww> phillw: #lubuntu isn't a core channel, so it's not managed by us, so you can essentially do what you want ;)
[21:42] <phillw> rww: but it will be, what then for fate of DragonEyes? Do I have to ban our guys from using him?
[21:43] <LjL> phillw: depends on what exactly it does, but there's nothing particular against having bots doing some of the house cleaning for you (#ubuntu has that)
[21:43] <phillw> they know he is only allowed on for as long as a command sequence needs to be made and must then leave.
[21:43] <rww> phillw: If #lubuntu becomes a core channel, then ubottu would be in there, and any additional bots would need to get IRCC approval and be listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots . If it just does operating stuff, I'd recommend learning how to do that yourselves.
[21:44] <phillw> LjL: he's an admin bot, hopuse clearance
[21:44] <phillw> rww we already have ubottu and logbot on there.
[21:44] <rww> phillw: no, you have ubot5 on there ;P
[21:45] <rww> anyways, it's time for me to go to work. ttyl everyone.
[21:45] <phillw> rww, if you'd like to split hairs, each ubot is updated hourly from ubottu by a cron job? I know the log bot runs hourly. I was the one who asked for them both :)
[21:46] <phillw> tc
[21:46] <LjL> phillw: i think that's how it works yes, but don't quote me on that
[21:46] <rww> phillw: It's not splitting hairs. ubottu does bantracking. ubot5 and the other clones don't.
[21:46] <rww> LjL: it is, yeah
[21:47]  * phillw can feel a headace coming on when nathan expalins this all to me!
[21:49] <rww> The more I think about it, the more I believe I should sit down with a significant amount of coffee and document everything these is to know about IRC team stuff ;)
[21:50] <LjL> you're OCD enough to do that
[21:50] <phillw> rww: nathan has an excellent set of notes out, it is just that rearely, thankfuilly, that we need to discuss banning / de-voicing etc.
[22:07]  * popey would appreciate such documentation too