[06:16] <vish> yofel_: i'm not the only admin of that mentors team ;)
[06:19] <vish> when Sense left, he just made me owner of that team, i dont know why and he dint ask me either :s
[06:23] <vish> yofel_: hggdh, bdmurray , duanedeisgn and all the mentors(BC) are admins.. but I'm pretty sure the mentors dont know that :p
[06:24] <vish> yofel_: will mentioned it during next meeting … thanks :)
[06:27] <yofel_> ah, good to know, thanks :)
[07:15] <dzup> hello, is this bug with a solution ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/716835
[07:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 716835 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Live streaming video doesn't play any longer...Justin Tv (affects: 1) (heat: 35)" [Undecided,New]
[07:17] <dzup> or at least confirm me if Mozilla Firefox 3.6.17 plays www.justin.tv fine? opera works but chrome/firefox doent
[07:21] <braiam> justin.tv?
[07:21] <dzup> yes
[07:22] <braiam> mm.. i get es.justin.tv...
[11:40] <brendand> hi
[11:40] <brendand> i think this bug should be 'medium' : https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/786505
[11:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 786505 in compiz (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Window management - Super + W does not zoom out on all windows in all workspaces - minimized windows are ignored (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[11:40] <persia> brendand: Why?
[11:41] <brendand> persia - the effect is not very extreme
[11:41] <brendand> persia - possibly even low
[11:41] <persia> !importance
[11:41] <ubot4> You can learn about setting bug importance at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[11:42] <persia> Have you read that guide?
[11:42] <brendand> persia - yep
[11:43] <persia> Heh, OK.  Usually when I ask why someone gives me a longer reason after reading the guide :)  No worries.
[11:43] <brendand> persia - well, more elaborate would be : A usability issue that does not limit the functionality of a core application.
[11:44] <persia> If someone else asks, it's handy to quote the page (like "A usability issue that does not limit the functionality of a core application." ijn this case)
[11:44] <persia> Setting it now.
[11:44] <brendand> persia - thanks!
[11:44] <brendand> persia - and i'm thinking it qualifies as triaged now (from what i've read)
[11:44] <persia> Thanks for helping get the bug database in shape.
[11:46] <persia> I'm tempted to leave it "Confirmed" until someone can figure out *why* it is missing minimized windows.  As is, it needs more investigation before anyone can start writing code for the better of the two solutions.
[11:47] <brendand> persia - good point
[11:48] <persia> Then if you agree, I'll close the bug.  If you disagree with someone performing actions for you, feel free to explain why: most of the time a good explanation from someone who has been investigating an issue will override the instincts of a long-time triager.
[11:48] <brendand> persia - possibly it's related to the fact that minimized windows don't show a preview in the task switcher, just an icon
[11:48] <persia> Indeed, those may have the same cause (although I don't know enough details to know about it).
[13:39] <hggdh> persia: good morning/afternoon/evening/morning again (I have no idea where you are now ;-)
[13:40]  * persia is happily floating in a private timezone
[13:40] <persia> And a happy diurnal period to you as well
[13:41] <hggdh> persia: I have been wondering on usability/accessability being bundled together... the more I see it the less I like it
[13:42]  * hggdh would rather be a nocturnal animal, but noblesse oblige and all that
[13:42] <persia> "night" is a diurnal period :)
[13:43] <persia> Could you give me an example?
[13:45] <hggdh> persia: darn, I lost it :-(
[13:46]  * hggdh grabs a hot, just-brewed coffee (Brazilian, BTW) and really tries to wake up
[13:47] <persia> hggdh, Could you paraphrase an example?  Doesn't have to be a real one.
[13:48] <hggdh> persia: this was out of an email exchange on bugsquad, where accessibility was mixed together with usability
[13:49] <hggdh> but... until the cobwebs leave my brain alone...
[13:49] <persia> Catch me later then :)
[13:50] <hggdh> will do ;-)
[13:50] <hggdh> catching up with you is easy ;-)
[14:33] <brendand> i'm thinking this bug is 'medium' since it has a small impact on users, but in an essential hardware component
[14:33] <brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/786897
[14:33] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 786897 in linux (Ubuntu) "Can not adjust CPU frequency (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
[14:33] <brendand> and i think all the info is there, so i'll set it to Triaged
[16:29] <c0nsaw> Hey peeps, looking for a bug triage mentor ! have applied via the normal channels, but it says I may have better luck on this channel :) ...who do I contact :)
[16:30] <charlie-tca> You are in the right place.
[16:31] <hggdh> c0nsaw: just ask if you have a doubt -- better pointed questions than completely open-ended
[16:32] <charlie-tca> c0nsaw: have you read the triaging guides?
[16:32] <c0nsaw> I have, so will I just tear into it myself !
[16:33] <charlie-tca> Please do, if you can. As any questions here, and one of us will try to answer it for you.
[16:35] <c0nsaw> awesome, thanks !
[16:39] <hggdh> c0nsaw: you do not really need a mentor, with us here. Any, and all, of us can help you -- you will be mentored by the team ;-)
[16:42] <brendand> i'm thinking this bug is 'medium'
[16:42] <brendand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/786897
[16:42] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 786897 in linux (Ubuntu) "Can not adjust CPU frequency (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:42] <brendand> it has a small impact on users, but in an essential hardware component
[16:44] <hggdh> brendand: agreed
[16:45] <charlie-tca> brendand: should be tagged regression-release too, since the reporter "At Ubuntu 10.04.1 x64 I can choose the CPU frequency."
[16:45] <brendand> charlie-tca - i can do that, but atm someone will need to set it to medium for me
[16:45] <charlie-tca> We will do that
[16:46] <charlie-tca> hggdh: you got that one?
[16:46] <hggdh> charlie-tca: I did
[16:46] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[16:46] <hggdh> brendand: all done
[16:46] <c0nsaw> cheers hggdh, Im looking forward to finally be able to contribute something !
[16:47] <hggdh> c0nsaw: and we are looking forward to your help! :-)
[16:48] <c0nsaw> this is why I love ubuntu :) such a cool community :)
[16:50] <tuos> :-)
[16:50] <hggdh> we do try... BTW this was the reason I started with Ubuntu -- friendliest community I found, with nice responses (even to rather dumb questions)
[16:50] <tuos> Even idlers smile. =)
[16:50] <hggdh> indeed
[16:51] <c0nsaw> ha !
[17:23] <micahg> hggdh: +1 :)
[20:16] <maco> bdmurray: bugstats page is apparently broken. the .data file shows "None" in all the non-datestamp columns
[20:32] <brendand> low importance bug in compiz - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/787097
[20:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 787097 in compiz (Ubuntu) "workspace difficult to identify when using desktop wall on black wallpaper (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:32] <brendand> minor usability issue in core application
[20:52] <c0nsaw> Hi guys, Im #theNewGuy, started triaging today, if I feel a reported bug is a duplicate, do I just hit the mark as duplicate link, what happens then, just wondering before I hit it !!
[20:54] <micahg> c0nsaw: it's marked as a duplicate, there's some text you should add to the bug before marking it as a duplicate, have you seen the canned responses page?
[20:56] <c0nsaw> hi, no, can you link me please
[20:56] <micahg> !responses | c0nsaw
[20:57] <ubot4> c0nsaw: response is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
[20:57] <c0nsaw> cheers !
[21:05] <JFo> c0nsaw, before you do that, what package is the bug for?
[21:05] <JFo> some packages have different duplication requirements
[21:06] <JFo> I'm thinking selfishly of course
[21:06] <JFo> :)
[21:07]  * charlie-tca thinks selfish is good sometimes
[21:08] <JFo> heh
[21:09] <c0nsaw> nothing in particular, my question was hypothetical, I'm just trying to get a feel for it :-)
[21:09] <JFo> ah, I see
[21:10] <JFo> well, something to keep in mind :)
[21:10] <c0nsaw> great to have you guys here anyway to show me the ropes :)
[21:10] <c0nsaw> ya for sure, thanks
[21:25] <hggdh> c0nsaw: ìt all actually depends on what is affected by the bug. Usually for kernel and X we do *not* duplicate -- unless we are very, very sure it is the exact same hardware
[21:26] <hggdh> so, rule of thumb: if it is touching the hardware, be careful. If it is purely software, probably kosher to dup
[21:27] <hggdh> and, of course, in doubt, just ask -- like 'Is bug xyz a dup of bug zyx?'
[21:27] <hggdh> and we will be happy to look at them and provide you with our insights (caveat emptor, my insights are usually worthless ;-)
[21:32] <bdmurray> c0nsaw: bug 787146 should have been marked as incomplete
[21:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 787146 in upstart (Ubuntu) "crashed (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787146
[21:33] <c0nsaw> will do !! i have a "bug" here, but its more of a feature request, and I have replied with pre-written response i feel is appropriate, whats the best way to close this..?
[21:34] <charlie-tca> c0nsaw: If you are referring them to brainstorm, invalid
[21:35] <c0nsaw> bdmurray, cheers, have done that now !! sorry for being n00b, its my first day :)
[21:36] <c0nsaw> thanks charlie ! will do
[21:37] <charlie-tca> c0nsaw: Thanks for helping with bugs.
[21:37]  * charlie-tca thinks the second day is the hardest
[21:37] <c0nsaw> it'll be a learning curve, but Im delighted to help out !
[21:38] <charlie-tca> We are always glad to have more help
[21:38] <c0nsaw> i have 4 moths till i go back to college, so i plan to do lots of work for ubuntu :)
[21:38] <c0nsaw> months*
[21:49] <hggdh> and we plan to be happy for your help ;-)
[21:52] <c0nsaw> I'll be stealing all the easy bugs for a while lol !!
[21:52] <charlie-tca> Whew! it is good to have someone grabbing those
[21:52] <c0nsaw> haha !!
[21:53] <c0nsaw> my pleasure..
[21:53] <micahg> c0nsaw: with almost 100k  open bugs, there are plenty to choose from
[21:53]  * charlie-tca thinks that makes his measly 1000 or so bugs a cycle look small
[22:02] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: those merge list / no Package: header bugs are likely duplicates of bug 346386
[22:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 346386 in apt (Debian) (and 1 other project) "Update fails with invalid package files with "Encountered a section with no Package: header" (affects: 25) (dups: 23) (heat: 238)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346386
[22:08] <persia> hggdh, Did you ever manage to wake up today?
[22:08] <hggdh> persia: amazingly enough, not really...
[22:09] <hggdh> but still trying coffee as the medicine from the gods
[22:10] <persia> So, in terms of usability/accessibility, do you mean "accessibility" in terms of support folk with different input/output needs, or "accessibility" in terms of making a solution comprehensible to some theoretical user?
[22:11] <jibel> bdmurray, I did a quick stat last week about these "merge list" bugs and it seems that it increased significantly recently http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/Selection_062.png , do you think of a change in apt that would explain it ?
[22:15] <bdmurray> jibel: not that I know of - maybe more people release upgrading and apport working during the release upgrade?
[22:16] <bdmurray> jibel: oh but those aren't auto reported...
[22:19] <jibel> bdmurray, idk, just wondering. The content of the broken file is usually some html error page returned by a router/proxy.
[22:22] <hggdh> persia: accessability as support for different I/O needs
[22:25] <persia> Ah, then yeah, I don't think it makes sense to conflate usability with accessibility.  Mind you, I feel strongly that good usability has to be usable regardless of I/O mechanism, but I think that deciding how to conceive of a represetnation, or how to provide an expreience that doesn't require asking the user questions is independent of ensuring that everything supports a wide variety of I/O devices.
[22:26] <persia> And I further believe that the skills required to consider multiple I/O models are completely different from the skills required to ensure the conceptual model of the system is unsurprising.
[22:30] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: ah very good.  Will mark them dupes from now on.  Thanks :)
[22:30] <hggdh> yep
[22:37] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: Thank you, marking dupes will help tracking the importance of fixing that apt bug.
[22:37] <bdmurray> well not importance bug impact1
[22:42] <bdmurray> hggdh: I've modified https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl based off what was discussed at UDS.  If you could take a look that'd help
[22:42] <bdmurray> or anybody even ;-)
[22:42] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: why was that used as the master though?  It seems rather old now that I am looking through... :/
[22:42] <hggdh> bdmurray: looking
[22:42] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: What does age have to do with it?  Do you have something against old things? ;-)
[22:45]  * charlie-tca represents a lot of old ... :-)
[22:46]  * hggdh is on the same boat as charlie-tca
[22:46] <hggdh> bdmurray: I think it is exactly what was agreed on UDS
[22:46] <hggdh> (the wiki change)
[22:47] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: lol
[22:47] <RedSingularity> yeah, no matter i guess
[22:48] <charlie-tca> bdmurray: looks good to me too
[22:48] <charlie-tca> RedSingularity: point being the age of the bug doesn't matter, as long it is present in the current releases
[22:49] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: well thanks for bringing that up.  I have been closing those instead of marking dupes.
[22:49] <charlie-tca> We usually try to make the oldest duplicate the master, if it has enough information for the developers
[22:49] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: if you happen to know which ones they are its still possible to mark them as dupes
[22:50] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: yes, doing that now.  Have them in my emails.
[22:56] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: that bugsquad signature will be added automatically to the end of our posts or will we have to do it manually?
[22:57] <RedSingularity> if everyone votes on it i mean...
[22:58] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: if you use the greasemonkey script it'll be added to any comments you make at the bottom of a bug page
[22:59] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: yeah sorry.  Just got your email.  Ummm do i have to use the 'built in' responses?
[23:00] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: let me take a screenshot
[23:03] <bdmurray> RedSingularity: it just prefills the "Add comment" box on a bug page with the signature.  So you can type whatever you want before that.
[23:04] <RedSingularity> bdmurray: oh i see.  Ok great.  Nice to see that implemented!