[01:41] <robert_ancell> RAOF, some X questions.  a) Does the X server have any system for setting the default configuration?  b) Debian seems to have /etc/default/keyboard, but I think that's not standard, it does have four environment variables - are they standard?  c) Is this file even used to set up X at all in the current setup?
[01:42] <RAOF> robert_ancell: What do you mean by ¨default configuration¨?
[01:43] <RAOF> Ah.  Keyboard layout setup?
[01:43] <robert_ancell> RAOF, default keyboard configuration - does X do anything special when these aren't specified explicitly in Xorg.conf
[01:44] <RAOF> I don't believe so.
[01:45] <RAOF> I *think* that it inherits it from the kernel VT.
[01:47] <RAOF> Itś also possible that gdm is reading it from somewhere else; I don't believe that it's reading from /etc/default/keyboard, though.
[01:48] <robert_ancell> RAOF, GDM doesn't care, because it uses gnome-session which sets the layout to what you've configured
[01:48] <TheMuso> Oh yay, the mountain of email after coming back from a week off. The only part I don't like about taking time off. :)
[01:50] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Hm.  Have you checked out /etc/gdm/Init/Default?  That appears to extract the XKB* environment variables and then set the X keymap from them.
[01:51] <RAOF> Oh, no.  I'm misinterpreting that grep
[01:53] <robert_ancell> RAOF, that just does completely weird stuff.  I can't work out what it's doing
[01:54] <RAOF> From the comments and code it looks like it's trying to port the XKB configuration from GDM's X server to the server itś spawning for the session.
[02:07] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Bah!  Of course, the keyboard layout information hangs off the /dev/input/event? node as udev properties.  I knew that!
[02:08] <robert_ancell> RAOF, so what does that mean...
[02:11] <RAOF> X gets the default configuration from the udev properties.
[02:13] <robert_ancell> RAOF, and that is overridden if config is set in XOrg.conf?
[02:14] <RAOF> Yes.  Xorg.conf always wins.
[02:15] <RAOF> Or, now, itś udev → /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/* → /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/* → /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[02:15] <RAOF> Hm.  deadkeys suck :)
[02:21] <TheMuso> Yay for people opening a new bug to ask for an older bug to be re-opened...
[02:22] <RAOF> The inevitable side-effect of having terminal bug states.
[02:32]  * TheMuso is continually disappointed by motherboard manufacturers not filling in all of the dmi fields for their boards.
[02:40] <robert_ancell> RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/611649/
[02:41] <RAOF> TheMuso: To Be Filled In By OEM is a *prolific* hardware vendor :)
[02:42] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Youǘe been VT switching?
[02:42] <robert_ancell> RAOF, maybe
[02:43] <RAOF> I think I may have seen a patch for this problem…
[02:44] <RAOF> Oh, no.  That VT switch thing is probably a subsequent error.
[02:44] <TheMuso> heh, I have seen ASUS and ASRock be inconsistant with their data so far.
[02:45] <RAOF> robert_ancell: How often/when is that happening, and can you get a proper backtrace?
[02:45] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I just triggered it running Unity though lightdm
[02:46] <robert_ancell> RAOF, haven't tried to keep triggering, what do I need to do to get a nice backtrace
[02:47] <RAOF> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing
[02:48] <RAOF> Particularly the remote gdb bit.
[04:02]  * TheMuso sighs.
[04:02] <TheMuso> Yay for bugs where people report broken sound yet they have actually gone ahead and built newer pieces of the sound stack, breaking everything. :S
[04:02] <lifeless> foot-gun ftw
[04:03] <TheMuso> Yup.
[04:06] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I just can't get X to drop a core file, I've enabled apport, set ulimit -c unlimited, and looked in the current dir, /var/crash and /etc/X11 but it just doesn't seem to want to make one
[04:07] <lifeless> is it crashing?
[04:07] <robert_ancell> yup
[04:07] <robert_ancell> Do I need to set NoTrapSignals as well?
[04:07] <robert_ancell> How does apport normally detect crashes?
[04:08] <lifeless> I think you need to, yes
[04:32] <RAOF> The apport integration patch is a little bit hit and miss.
[05:29] <pitti> Good morning
[05:30] <pitti> robert_ancell, RAOF: I think cjwatson went through some efforts to have /etc/default/keyboard be the authoritative source for both console-setup and X.org
[05:30] <RAOF> pitti: Yes, it is.
[05:30] <pitti> I'm not sure how it affects the X server, though
[05:31] <RAOF> X reads the udev properties that get set up.
[05:31] <pitti> robert_ancell: apport crashes> when a process dumps core, the kernel calls it through /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern
[05:31] <RAOF> I knew this, in a past life.  I just needed reminding of it :)
[05:31] <pitti> RAOF: ah, right
[05:31] <pitti> so did I
[05:32] <robert_ancell> RAOF, oh, if I set NoTrapSignals, the whole display systems seems to lock up, I guess when X catches a segfault there is a chance for cleanup?
[05:33] <pitti> brb
[05:33] <RAOF> robert_ancell: There is, yes.  That's why apport doesn't necessarily catch it; X does some unwinding, and then our apport patch causes it to (mostly/sometimes) re-raise the SEGV.
[05:34] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I just attach gdb to X and be done with it; that always works :)
[05:34] <robert_ancell> RAOF, ok, i'll try that
[05:39] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[05:39] <pitti> hey TheMuso
[05:41]  * TheMuso wonders how hardware enablement guys keep their sanity...
[05:43] <TheMuso> I'm currently catching up on email, and doing audio bug triage, and keep running into users who have filed bugs about a chipset that has been shown to be buggy, although it took 11.04/2.6.38 kernel to make it show up...
[05:50] <robert_ancell> RAOF, course, it doesn't occur once I connect gdb...
[05:50] <RAOF> Heh.
[05:51] <RAOF> It's not just blocked waiting for you to respond to a signal?
[05:58] <robert_ancell> nope
[06:04] <RAOF> Oh, well.  Yay heisenbug.
[07:17] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:17] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, had a nice weekend?
[07:18] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti. yeah, my weekend wasn't too bad thanks. did you have a nice weekend too?
[07:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh yes; spent all Sunday with gardening work, and Saturday with some more unpacking boxes, and calling family and friends
[07:19] <TheMuso> Hey chrisccoulson.
[07:20] <chrisccoulson> pitti - sounds like you had quite a busy weekend ;)
[07:20] <chrisccoulson> hi TheMuso, how are you?
[07:22] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Not too bad thanks, spent just about all my work day today working on bug triaging, based on what I received in email.
[07:23] <chrisccoulson> heh, i need to spend some time bug triaging too ;)
[07:49] <didrocks> good morning
[07:51] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
[07:52] <didrocks> pitti: guten morgen. I'm fine, thanks, and you? how was your week-end?
[07:53] <pitti> didrocks: lots of work in the garden and unpacking boxes, feeling my muscles :) so, pretty good
[07:54] <didrocks> nice in some way ;)
[07:58] <Sweetshark> G'Morning all!
[07:59] <pitti> hey Sweetshark, guten Morgen! wie gehts/
[07:59] <pitti> ?
[07:59] <pitti> server reboot after upgrade to squeeze, brb
[07:59] <jasoncwarner> morning everyone
[08:00] <Sweetshark> pitti: the workitem show only up in the burndown, if targeted against ubuntu and named desktop-o-*, right?
[08:02] <pitti> hey jasoncwarner
[08:03] <didrocks> hey Sweetshark, jasoncwarner
[08:05] <jasoncwarner> morning didrocks
[08:06] <jasoncwarner> how was weekend,everyone? Very raining here
[08:06] <cdbs> good morning jasoncwarner , didrocks , how are ya all?
[08:07] <didrocks> jasoncwarner: cdbs: I'm fine here, thanks! Long week-end of 3 days, sunny again like the past 2 months :)
[08:07] <cdbs> didrocks: Tomorrow's the SRU, still no accept
[08:08] <didrocks> cdbs: I'm afraid I can't parse that?
[08:08] <cdbs> didrocks: And, Unity guys aren't around yet
[08:08] <cdbs> didrocks: I'm talking about the code for the quicklist crasher
[08:08] <cdbs> its bugging UpdateManager on Oneiric (as of now) might affect others as well
[08:09] <didrocks> cdbs: yeah, they didn't merge anything yet. Have you provided an example program to make it crash btw?
[08:09] <cdbs> didrocks: yes, its attached to the bug
[08:09] <didrocks> for natty if you want it to be in the SRU
[08:09] <didrocks> nice, thanks, I didn't look at it, you should bug them to do their merging
[08:11]  * cdbs learns some poking techniques
[08:11] <Sweetshark> pitti: the workitem show only up in the burndown, if targeted against ubuntu and named desktop-o-*, right? (repost because of pitti sneakily vanishing after greeting)
[08:12] <pitti> Sweetshark: targetted against ubuntu and assigned to someone in our team
[08:12] <pitti> the naming is largely irrelevant
[08:12] <pitti> erm, targetted to oneiric in particular
[08:30] <didrocks> hum, interesting, gnome-session dep on gnome-shell in debian
[09:08] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[09:08] <seb128> hey didrocks ;-)
[09:08] <seb128> hello desktopers
[09:08] <didrocks> how are you?
[09:09] <seb128> I'm fine thanks, how are you? had a nice weekend?
[09:09] <didrocks> yeah, very sunny, long walks in city/parks… took some fresh air. Was excellent!
[09:10] <seb128> great
[09:11] <pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
[09:11] <seb128> pitti, hey, ca va bien! et toi ?
[09:12] <pitti> seb128: je suis bien, merci!
[09:12] <pitti> seb128: FYI, gnome-icon-theme "only" grew by 0.4 MB after fixing it, so right now it's not a major issue
[09:12] <seb128> nice
[09:12] <pitti> seb128: it ballooned to 25 MB because the new .deb installed the icon cache
[09:12] <pitti> s/installed/shipped/
[09:13] <seb128> oh ok
[09:13] <didrocks> icon cache == png from svg or another cache?
[09:13] <seb128> great that is was only a bug ;-)
[09:13] <pitti> didrocks: /usr/share/icons/gnome/icon-theme.cache
[09:13] <seb128> didrocks, the mmap of the icons in theme
[09:13] <pitti> I think it's only for category/size lookup and uncompressing PNG
[09:13] <didrocks> oh right, the mmap, thanks!
[09:13] <pitti> not svg
[09:14] <pitti> erk, libgnome-keyring 3.0.2. causes an nm-applet segfault; I didn't notice that at first :/
[09:14]  * pitti debugs
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: small questions on mimetype: do you regularly refresh desktop-files-utils defaults.list base on gnome-session's one? (and also, how do you determine if you use the alias x- or the canonical name?)
[09:31] <didrocks> the desktop spec isn't very verbose about that point
[09:33] <seb128> didrocks, no, I mostly ignore what debian does in gnome-session for those
[09:33] <seb128> didrocks, what canonical name?
[09:34] <didrocks> like audio/x-flac (alias) and audio/flac (canonical name)
[09:34] <didrocks> I don't see a pattern, both are sometimes define, sometimes only one, and so…
[09:34] <seb128> well the defaults.list should use whatever the application .desktop list
[09:35] <seb128> but I don't know the specifics either, I though it was the same than for desktop keys
[09:35] <seb128> i.e x- for non official ones
[09:35] <didrocks> i would have think that, but sometimes both are defined, that's weird…
[09:36] <seb128> well maybe that's for compatability when it switched to the official type
[09:36] <seb128> to not break applications still defining the x- variant
[09:36] <didrocks> yeah probably, was thinking as the spec uses the terms "alias", it would have been done at a higher level (gio or whatever)
[09:37] <seb128> yeah, I don't know either
[09:37] <didrocks> no worry thanks seb128 :)
[09:38] <didrocks> I'll add to desktop-file-utils the one which can be relevant from gnome-session to us
[09:38] <seb128> ok
[09:40] <htorque> hello everyone! i got a question: is gdm no longer supposed to take /etc/gdm/custom.conf into account?
[09:41] <tjaalton> how can I restore the unity panel back on top of the windows, after a ffox crash it remains below them
[09:42] <tjaalton> side panel
[09:43] <seb128> hey htorque
[09:43] <seb128> htorque, what version?
[09:43] <seb128> tjaalton, compiz --replace?
[09:43] <htorque> seb128, 2.32.1-0ubuntu3 in natty
[09:44] <seb128> htorque, no reason it shouldn't work
[09:44] <tjaalton> seb128: probably would work, though it would resize all my terminals
[09:44] <tjaalton> +also
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: forgot to bzr push desktop-file-utils ?
[09:45] <seb128> ups
[09:45] <seb128> didrocks, let me check
[09:45] <seb128> it has been a while
[09:45] <htorque> seb128, :-/ it says 'DefaultSession=unity-2d' but it always starts what was chosen last time, will try different sessions instead of unity-2d
[09:45] <seb128> htorque, do you have a session in .dmrc?
[09:46] <seb128> htorque, well "default" is what is used when you never selected a session
[09:46] <htorque> oh
[09:46] <seb128> otherwise it will use what you picked
[09:46] <didrocks> (if you never changed your session, yeah)
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, no, I cleaned my checkouts since, just commit whatever is in the archive to the vcs, sorry
[09:47] <didrocks> seb128: no worry :) let me see what changed then
[09:48] <seb128> but it's not me who did the recent upload
[09:48] <seb128> it's mvo who sponsored something
[09:48] <htorque> seb128, yes, i have a session defined in ~/.dmrc - has it always worked this way?
[09:48] <seb128> htorque, yes
[09:48] <mvo> hm?
[09:49] <didrocks> hey mvo
[09:49] <mvo> hey didrocks and seb128
[09:49] <seb128> hey mvo ;-)
[09:49] <mvo> what package are we talking about?
[09:49] <didrocks> yeah novody checked, you just missed the debcommit -r ; bzr push, but the next upload is not there
[09:49] <mvo> aha, desktop-file-utils?
[09:49] <didrocks> let me readd that
[09:50] <htorque> seb128, wow, then i'm sorry for interrupting - i always thought whatever you set with gdmsetup becomes the new (default) session
[09:51] <didrocks> it's the default session if you changed anything at the user level
[09:51] <htorque> didrocks, yeah, that was a misinterpretation on my end :)
[09:52] <seb128> htorque, no worry
[09:52] <htorque> seb128, didrocks: thanks for your time :)
[09:52] <didrocks> yw :)
[09:58] <rodrigo_> hi
[10:01] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_
[10:04] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, good morning
[10:04] <pitti> rodrigo_: FYI, I finally got g-p-m to build
[10:05] <rodrigo_> pitti, ah, cool, why wasn't it building?
[10:05] <pitti> rodrigo_: missing dh-autoreconf (for your "drop control-center dependency" patch), and wrong libnotify b-dep
[10:05] <rodrigo_> pitti, ah, ok
[10:05] <pitti> oh, and libappindicator3-dev was also missing
[10:20] <seb128> great, versions is less than 2 pages of updates to do
[10:21] <pitti> I guess panel etc. are still blocked by unity gtk3 migratin?
[10:23] <didrocks> panel?
[10:23] <seb128> yes
[10:24] <seb128> gnome-applets gnome-panel gnome-menus
[10:24] <seb128> didrocks, to update those we need to update the indicators to gtk3
[10:24] <seb128> which also mean updating the unity panel service to gtk3
[10:24] <didrocks> right
[10:24] <didrocks> so first, indicators
[10:24] <seb128> pitti, there is a note on the etherpad about that
[10:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, vino has a merge request from jbicha ready
[10:26] <seb128> cf versions
[10:26] <seb128> if you want to review and sponsor it
[10:26] <seb128> didrocks, btw mterry assigned you the accountsservice mir review if you didn't notice
[10:27] <didrocks> seb128: I noticed, I try to get a day full of gnome-session first :)
[10:27] <seb128> didrocks, yeah, no hurry ;-)
[10:27] <didrocks> the good news is that the diff will be less than before, but reviewing and ensuring everything will be fine is quite long with all the changes
[10:28] <seb128> yeah, I can imagine
[10:29] <seb128> so I'm wondering if it would be acceptable to "break" gnome-panel in oneiric
[10:29] <didrocks> break, like right now, before alpha1?
[10:29] <seb128> i.e to go for the gtk3 version which will mean breaking indicators use in gnome-panel until they are ported
[10:30] <didrocks> if we want the new gnome-panel, I'm afraid the indicator port will be long, so maybe that worthes it, isn't it?
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: don't call it "break" -- call it "increase the motivation to port indicators"
[10:30] <didrocks> heh :)
[10:30] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
[10:31] <seb128> didrocks, why would it be long? we got the stack ready previous cycle and this to build without deprecation
[10:31] <seb128> those
[10:31] <seb128> it should be trivial for those not using ido
[10:31] <seb128> kenvandine is working on that and got it almost ported
[10:32] <seb128> but I might be overlooking something?
[10:32] <seb128> rodrigo_, bug #786899
[10:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 786899 in gnome-settings-daemon "package gnome-settings-daemon 2.32.1-0ubuntu13.1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gnome-control-center/keybindings/50-accessibility.xml', which is also in package gnome-control-center-data 1:3.0.1.1-1ubuntu1~natty1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786899
[10:33] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, taking it
[10:33] <didrocks> seb128: there is still some patches waiting for gtk, isn't it? I don't remember if I merged them or not
[10:34] <didrocks> for soundmenu IIRC
[10:34] <seb128> didrocks, I think there is one needed yes, I will check with kenvandine when he's online
[10:34] <didrocks> seb128: I think I ported it in gtk2, but better to check, right
[10:35] <seb128> rodrigo_, it might not need anything but it's worth checking it's not a missing replaces or something, could be a downgrade issue from the ppa to natty (downgrades are not supported but some people try anyway and run into issue)à
[10:35] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, seems like a missing replace indeed
[10:35] <seb128> didrocks, pitti, rodrigo_: ok, I will start on gnome-panel in the ubuntu-desktop ppa to see how it goes and port one or two indicators
[10:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, no need to upload for it, just get the fix in the vcs, thanks ;-)
[10:36] <didrocks> nice :)
[10:36] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, cool, should we also upload gnome-menus before you upload panel?
[10:36] <pitti> I finally bent {lib,}gnome-keyring to my will, uploading now
[10:37] <seb128> rodrigo_, you can upload in the gnome3 ppa with an oneiric target
[10:37] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[10:37] <seb128> rodrigo_, let's try with the ppa first
[10:37] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[10:37] <pitti> seb128: libgk-k will be in Debian NEW, so that'll take a few days; not that urgent though, I presume?
[10:37] <seb128> pitti, what is NEW in there?
[10:38] <seb128> it's a minor revision update?
[10:38] <pitti> seb128: Debian added a -dbg for the library
[10:38] <seb128> oh ok
[10:38] <seb128> no, no hurry
[10:38] <seb128> but you can just dput as 0build1 if you want
[10:38] <seb128> so it will be synced when it's NEWed
[10:39] <pitti> ah, sure
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: -panel/-applets jbicha's PPA are not useful merges already?
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, they are likely useful, I plan to start from them
[10:42] <seb128> did I say I hate autotools? totem fails to build with no obvious error in the log and it builds fine there. I bet it miss a build-depends but not sure which one
[10:43] <didrocks> seb128: you hate autotools because you never tried cmake :p
[10:43] <seb128> ;-)
[10:45] <lifeless> didrocks: its possible to hate multiple build-tools ;)
[10:47] <didrocks> lifeless: heh :)
[10:48] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[10:48] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, I'm fine, what about you? had a nice w.e?
[10:49] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, good thanks, although i did a bit of work to make up for having another national holiday today ;)
[10:49] <seb128> you have another holiday today?
[10:49] <seb128> you are making those up right?
[10:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it's another holiday here today
[10:50] <seb128> lying!
[10:51] <pitti> another royal couple to get wed?
[10:51] <chrisccoulson> lol, i hope not ;)
[10:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_United_Kingdom says you are lying
[10:52] <seb128> next monday is one though
[10:52] <didrocks> gord is there today, so yeah, stop lying :)
[10:52] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
[10:52] <seb128> njpatel as well
[10:53] <chrisccoulson> lol
[10:53] <chrisccoulson> it's next monday ;)
[10:53] <chrisccoulson> good job i did some work already!
[10:53] <chrisccoulson> stupid calendar ;)
[10:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/LivingintheUK/DG_073741
[10:53] <chrisccoulson> lol
[10:53] <seb128> right
[10:53] <njpatel> Hello
[10:53] <chrisccoulson> i can't believe i got that wrong!
[10:53] <njpatel> holiday next Monday
[10:53] <njpatel> yes
[10:53] <seb128> hey njpatel, no worry, chrisccoulson tried to sneak off work pretenting it was a uk bank holiday
[10:53] <chrisccoulson> that's what happens when i never leave the house ;)
[10:53] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: nice try! :-)
[10:53] <njpatel> if United win the champions league on sat, I might still be drunk
[10:54] <chrisccoulson> lol
[10:54] <pitti> RAOF: you are the approver of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-xorg-stakeholders-request, are you aware of this?
[10:54] <didrocks> njpatel: and during this time, other people works on promoting ubuntu and french events. We see the priorities! :-)
[10:54] <gord> hey - if chrisccoulson says its a bank holiday - i'm not gonna argue - extra day of sleep would be welcome ;)
[10:54] <chrisccoulson> lol
[10:54] <chrisccoulson> i feel like that too ;)
[10:55] <RAOF> pitti: Hm, no I wasn't!  Thanks.
[10:55]  * RAOF wonders why he's the approver of that.
[10:56] <seb128> didrocks, the ubuntu french party is at the wrong time, you are competing with RG...
[10:56] <seb128> I was pondering coming until I realized that
[10:56] <didrocks> seb128: come on, don't try to get a slacking excuse! :p
[10:56] <rodrigo_> ok, I'm reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/vino/vino-3.0.2/+merge/61885
[10:57] <seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
[10:57] <didrocks> seb128: so, this "thing" I saw on TV yesterday was RG?
[10:57] <seb128> you have a tv now?! ;-)
[10:58] <didrocks> for watching nolife, sure :-)
[10:58] <seb128> but dunno, the TV is able to display several things
[10:58] <didrocks> and big bang theory, mostely :)
[10:58] <seb128> but you might have crossed it yes, it started yesterday ;-)
[10:58] <pitti> cyphermox: I left some comments in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-desktop-network-enhancements, setting back to drafting FYI
[10:59] <pitti> RAOF: I think it makes sense of X.org folks cross-checking each other's blueprints; you'd rather have a different approach?
[10:59] <pitti> RAOF: you can hand over approver to me if you prefer
[11:00] <didrocks> seb128: that should be it, they were shouting and seemed to feel pain :-)
[11:00] <seb128> didrocks, you just don't understand sport
[11:01] <pitti> Sweetshark: are you still working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-libreoffice-packaging ? (it's still in state "new")
[11:01] <seb128> but I will follow njpatel's at getting drunk saturday if manchester wins ;-)
[11:01] <pitti> Sweetshark: it should be in "drafting" while you are working on the spec, then flip it to "pending approval" once you are done and want the approver to review
[11:01] <didrocks> seb128: I think it's rather sport which doesn't understand me :-)
[11:01] <RAOF> pitti: I'm not *entirely* clear as to the role of the approver.  However, that blueprint matches my memories of the session, and contain appropriate work items, so I've approved it.
[11:02] <pitti> RAOF: ok, thanks
[11:05] <Sweetshark> pitti: I will have finished all blueprint work by tommorrow meeting time.
[11:06] <pitti> Sweetshark: it looks good to me; I just reordered the WIs a bit for chronological milestones, and also droped the redundant [bjoern-m] tags (as you are already the default assignee)
[11:06] <pitti> Sweetshark: ah, good; leaving at drafting then, thanks
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> pitti - are we able to push the firefox update in natty-proposed this week without getting verification for bug 783856 and bug 783997? i picked those from upstream, and i have no way of contacting the reporters of those to get them to test it
[11:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 783856 in globalmenu-extension/1.0 "Thunderbird 3.1.10 Crash Report [@ uGlobalMenuBar::~uGlobalMenuBar ]" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/783856
[11:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 783997 in globalmenu-extension/1.0 "Firefox 4.0.1 Crash Report [@ uGlobalMenuBar::ShouldParentStayVisible ] " [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/783997
[11:13] <chrisccoulson> bug 783790 has been verified to work, and that one is one of the most frequent firefox crashers across all linux users
[11:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 783790 in globalmenu-extension/1.0 "Firefox 4 crashes when opening Selenium IDE window" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/783790
[11:14] <pitti> chrisccoulson: should be fine, yes; after 7 days
[11:14] <chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks
[11:19] <rodrigo_> hey chrisccoulson
[11:19] <chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_, how are you?
[11:19] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, just pushed your fix for the g-s-d convert file to git
[11:20] <chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, cool, thanks
[11:20] <rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, it was indeed a leftover from a previous commit
[11:27] <njpatel> seb128, woohoo, I want pictures of drunk you!
[11:27] <seb128> ;-)
[11:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: are you still working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-mozilla-rapid-release-maintenance?
[11:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: i. e. should it go to 'drafting' or 'review'?
[11:28] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i've finished creating WI's for it now
[11:29] <chrisccoulson> (ie, i pretty much know what i'm doing with that one now)
[11:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, want me to review then?
[11:29] <chrisccoulson> pitti - sure, if you don't mind :)
[11:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you have some idea which of the WIs should be handled first, i. e. for alpha-2? or want me to go through and sort them?
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> pitti - also, i sent an e-mail out to ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-motu last week asking for help from people who care about any particular packages on that list
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not sure which ones to do for a2 yet
[11:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: actually, pretty much all of them seem fine by beta-1
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
[11:31] <pitti> I don't immediately see ones which are a blocker for other features/work, do you?
[11:31] <pitti> perhaps "Figure out how to support mozvoikko, enigmail and lightning (binary extensions)"
[11:32]  * pitti moves that to a2
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i'm not sure what to do about that. i know we have people using mozvoikko, but i don't know how we can support it
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> i thought about reimplementing it in javascript and using jsctypes this weekend
[11:34] <chrisccoulson> i don't think it would be that hard
[11:36] <pitti> jasoncwarner: you are the drafter for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-default-apps, are you ok with this or want someone else to do that? (I wasn't in the session, so I shouldn't do it)
[11:42] <cjwatson> what's happening with the libnotify transition?  it collides a bit with some other transitions in progress, but I don't know what can be done to progress it (which packages require non-trivial source uploads and which just no-change rebuilds, etc.)
[11:48] <seb128> cjwatson, we did try to actively work on doing a transition for it yet
[11:48] <seb128> we figured it would be easier to just let things sort over time and do a push to clean remaining ones later
[11:48] <cjwatson> mm, but it's causing awkward build failures I don't know how to deal with
[11:48] <seb128> cjwatson, does it create any issue, i.e should it be actively sorted?
[11:48] <cjwatson> that are blocking other things
[11:49] <cjwatson> some of the interfaces seem to have changed - different numbers of arguments to notify_notification_new, e.g.
[11:49] <seb128> they broke some apis but the changes should be trivial
[11:49] <seb128> right
[11:49] <cjwatson> a post about how to deal with it would be welcome
[11:49] <cjwatson> I'm happy then to work on unblocking the stuff that affects me
[11:50] <seb128> cjwatson, I can do that but I'm happy to deal with build issues that are blocking you as well if you give the list
[11:55] <seb128> cjwatson, basically they dropped the option to link the notification to a status icon and widget so the argument got dropped from the notify_notification_new() call and they dropped the function corresponding to those action as well
[11:56] <cjwatson> seb128: linuxdcpp balsa openfetion  are the ones I recall seeing so far
[11:58] <seb128> cjwatson, so trivial "porting guide" is to drop the last argument from the new call and any call to function that deals with widget or status icon
[11:58] <cjwatson> seb128: hmm, I see that libnotify4-dev has now been NBSed though, so I wonder if it's worth retrying linuxdcpp and openfetion
[11:58] <seb128> the result is that notifications will be displayed to the standard location
[11:59] <seb128> cjwatson, right, we came back to the old name to be in sync with what debian is doing (they decided to just transition rather than having both versions)
[11:59] <seb128> cjwatson, do you want me to deal with linuxdcpp balsa openfetion
[11:59] <seb128> ?
[12:00] <seb128> let me have a look to balsa to start just to see what the issue is
[12:00] <cjwatson> if you could deal with balsa, I'll retry the others and see if they just work now that libnotify4-dev is gone
[12:00] <seb128> ok
[12:00] <seb128> looking at balsa now
[12:08] <didrocks> seb128: what's your pick on dropping the failsafe session and just using gnome classic (no effect) for that?
[12:08] <seb128> works for me
[12:09] <didrocks> thanks :)
[12:09] <seb128> lunch, brb
[12:09] <seb128> yw
[12:09] <didrocks> enjoy
[12:43] <cjwatson> seb128: linuxdcpp looks OK now
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> b'ah, xchat crashes without me realizing
[12:59] <chrisccoulson> **crashed
[13:08] <pedro_> good day all
[13:15] <pitti> hey pedro_, how are you?
[13:15] <pedro_> hello pitti!, I'm good, thanks. what about you?
[13:16] <pedro_> chrisccoulson, xchat is crashing for me on Spanish, guess you're not using that locale :-P
[13:16] <pedro_> it only works on English
[13:16] <chrisccoulson> pedro_, i'm not using spanish ;)
[13:16] <pedro_> :-P
[13:16] <pitti> pedro_: I'm great, thanks! weekend was nice
[13:16] <seb128> hey pedro_
[13:17] <pedro_> bonjour seb128!
[13:20] <rodrigo_> hey pedro_
[13:21] <pedro_> hola rodrigo_, is xchat-gnome working fine for you?
[13:21] <seb128> pedro_, do you use natty or oneiric?
[13:21] <rodrigo_> pedro_, yes, but in English
[13:23] <pedro_> seb128, Natty, looks like it's due to the translation, i blame dpm
[13:24] <dpm> pedro_, you should be using xchat-gnome instead of xchat, I blame you! :P
[13:24] <pedro_> dpm, oh it's xchat-gnome :-P
[13:24] <pedro_> i'm not so mean with the gnome project
[13:26] <pedro_> dpm, bug 785740
[13:26] <dpm> pedro_, ok, looking...
[13:26] <pedro_> cri cri cri
[13:26] <pedro_> no bot?
[13:27] <seb128> pedro_, you broke the bot?!
[13:27] <dpm> pedro_, wrong bug #
[13:28] <pedro_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat-gnome/+bug/785740
[13:28] <ubot2> pedro_: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0x8b9a52c> bug 785740 not found
[13:28] <pedro_> seb128, wasn't me i swear!
[13:29] <seb128> is the bug non public?
[13:32] <pedro_> yeah it was waiting to be retraced, got a backtrace though so i make it public now
[13:35]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[13:36] <didrocks> I think I remember that the one breaking the bot has to replace it manually :-)
[13:40] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i notice you're working on desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad. do you need the entire list of firefox language packs for that?
[13:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: for the dependency?
[13:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I thought about checking the package repo for firefox-locale-XX at langpack build time
[13:41] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah (if we need the dependency for >= 11.10)
[13:41] <pitti> chrisccoulson: my intention was to make this check not version specific
[13:41] <pitti> i. e. once we backport this to lucid, it should just work
[13:42] <pitti> "if firefox-locale-XX exists, add it as a recommends to language-pack-XX"
[13:42] <pitti> is what I thought?
[13:42] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think that makes sense
[13:43] <chrisccoulson> for lucid though, the firefox-locale-XX packages won't exist when you build the language packs will they? (if you build them in the langpack PPA)
[13:43] <pitti> chrisccoulson: not right now, yes; only once they are in -updates
[13:43] <chrisccoulson> note, i've started staging lucid/maverick/natty in here now: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-next
[13:43] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I can also (temporarily?) switch that check to include -proposed, too
[13:44] <pitti> <jedi wave>edge is not the hostname you are looking for</jedi wave>
[13:53] <bigon> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cdbs/+bug/745828 << do you think this could be backported to natty?
[13:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 745828 in cdbs "python-module.mk incorectly call dh_python2 with unexisting --prefix parameter" [High,Fix released]
[13:54] <pitti> bigon: yes, it only changes a code path which is definitively broken right now, so safe for SRU
[13:55] <pitti> do we need it for anything?
[13:55] <bigon> backporting of some packages
[13:56] <pitti> ah, right
[13:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: would you mind doing https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/po2xpi/fix-update-data/+merge/60688 ? should be quick
[13:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: otherwise the PPA packages will break the SRU fix again
[13:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti, sure, no problem
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, done
[13:59] <pitti> chrisccoulson: cheers
[14:17] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, lintian complains about
[14:17] <pitti> lintian error: W: language-pack-es-base: jar-not-in-usr-share usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/langpack-es-CL@firefox.mozilla.org/chrome/es-CL.jar
[14:17] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I guess that's for Debian policy, and we actually do want it in /usr/share? (for lucid/maverick)
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the issue is that /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions can contain binary files too, so you can't move the whole folder to /usr/share, and there isn't really anywhere else in /usr/share to put them
[14:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, so this lintian check is just bogus then at least for our purposes
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> i think the firefox package used to be carved up between /usr/lib and /usr/share a long, long time ago, but it's been in /usr/lib/ ever since i started
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> and i just override the lintian warnings for those
[14:22]  * pitti filters it out in the test suite theen
[14:55] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm in favor or dropping https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598118 from now as we will revisit with compiz the screensaver experience, any thought on that? (I don't know with the GNOME3 world, but I don't find any gui to change /apps/gnome-power-manager/lock/suspend for instance)
[14:55] <ubot2> Gnome bug 598118 in gnome-session "Screensaver lock-on-suspend policy inconsistent with gnome-power-manager" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[14:56] <didrocks> I know that locking the screen was on robert's plate with lightdm
[15:01] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i think we still need that until we've figured out what we're doing with screen locking
[15:02] <seb128> need what?
[15:03] <didrocks> seb128: the screen locking policy, see my message above
[15:03] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: where is the ui to change g-w-m screen locking policy?
[15:04] <didrocks> g-p-m*
[15:04] <seb128> didrocks, ok, I just restarted my session so I didn't see it but doesn't seem like anything I would useful to comment on ;-)
[15:04] <seb128> so ignore my question ;-)
[15:04] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, there isn't one. the issue was that gnome-session and gnome-power-manager had different ideas about whether to lock the screen
[15:05] <chrisccoulson> there shouldn't be a UI for configuring the g-p-m setting (ie, assume that the screen should always be locked on suspend)
[15:05] <didrocks> seb128: I think you can have interesting input for it: 15:55:50      didrocks | chrisccoulson: I'm in favor or dropping https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598118 from now as we will revisit with compiz the screensaver experience, any thought on that? (I don't know with the GNOME3 world, but I don't find any gui to change /apps/gnome-power-manager/lock/suspend for instance)
[15:05] <ubot2> Gnome bug 598118 in gnome-session "Screensaver lock-on-suspend policy inconsistent with gnome-power-manager" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[15:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: but, gnome-screensaver option is confusing then
[15:06] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, the gnome-screensaver options is about locking when the screensaver activates
[15:06] <chrisccoulson> disabling that shouldn't also switch off lock-on-suspend
[15:06] <chrisccoulson> which was the original issue :)
[15:06] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, but then, what happens if it suspends while the screensaver is active, it's locked :)
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that's fine
[15:07] <didrocks> the thing is that if robert is changing that in lightdm, not sure we need this patch in gnome-session
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> the issue is that users were unchecking lock-on-screensaver and then being surprised that the screen no longer locked on suspend too
[15:08] <chrisccoulson> i don't know whether the way this works has changed in gnome 3, but we want to keep the current behaviour :)
[15:08] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, better first to check how it works on GNOME 3?
[15:08] <chrisccoulson> possibly ;)
[15:08] <didrocks> rather than rebasing first the patch, using gsettings…
[15:08] <didrocks> let me first look at the schema
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> i don't know how anything works in gnome 3 ;)
[15:09] <seb128> check with rodrigo_
[15:10] <seb128> but yeah, what chrisccoulson said, we want the behaviour to still be what is happening now
[15:10] <didrocks> rodrigo_: ? I'm sure you are eager to speak about g-p-m and screen locking :)
[15:10] <didrocks>     <key name="lock-use-screensaver" type="b">
[15:10] <didrocks>       <default>true</default>
[15:10] <didrocks>       <_summary>Use gnome-screensaver lock setting</_summary>
[15:11] <seb128> didrocks, if you are unsure drop it for now and put a work item on the gnome3 blueprint about sorting that
[15:11] <didrocks> in the g-p-m gsettings schema
[15:11] <didrocks> so it follows the gnome-screensaver setting right now
[15:11] <didrocks> but there are still the different keys if we set that to false
[15:12] <didrocks> I don't care either way, just that we should coordinate :-)
[15:12] <rodrigo_> does anyone know of a package that uses dh_installgsettings?
[15:15] <seb128> rodrigo_, cdbs use it so any package using cdbs with gnome.mk?
[15:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok, so I don't need to add anything to debian/rules?
[15:16] <seb128> rodrigo_, if the package is using cdbs no
[15:16] <didrocks> seb128: that can be a sprint topic, at least, we know how it works in gnome3 now, I'll drop a note in the etherpad
[15:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok
[15:16] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[15:16] <seb128> rodrigo_, btw vino failed to build
[15:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, oh? looking
[15:17] <seb128> rodrigo_, the autoreconf failed, you probably miss a build-depends on gnome-common or gtk-doc-tools or something
[15:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, do you want me to check in a pbuilder which build-depends is missing?
[15:19] <rodrigo_> seb128, please
[15:19] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok, running it
[15:19] <rodrigo_> seb128, although I should really set up a pbuilder myself
[15:19] <rodrigo_> will do it later
[15:20] <seb128> rodrigo_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[15:21] <seb128> if you need documentation
[15:21] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I know, I already tried some time ago, but it took too much disk space, so removed it
[15:21] <rodrigo_> but yes, will do it again
[15:21] <seb128> ok
[15:22] <didrocks> kenvandine: hey, small question: why did you add debian/patches/81_restart_string_on_inhibit.patch in gnome-session to po_up/POTFILES.in as the file is already in POTFILES.in? (and so the modified string is already on launchpad if I'm correct)
[15:22] <rodrigo_> hmm, for dh_installgsettings, do I need to Build-Depend on it?
[15:22] <rodrigo_> ah, no, it's part of debhelper
[15:30] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok, vino needs a build-depends on gnome-common
[15:31] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, fixing it now thanks
[15:31] <seb128> rodrigo_, yw
[15:34] <seb128> didrocks, he's not feeling well and not around but I guess there is no real reason (I used to just drop the po-up dir when merging on debianà
[15:35] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I think it's rather a mistake than anything else. it's still useful for the debian patch which doesn't patch the upstream POTFILES.in (and they merge the translation manually as they have no launchpad-like)
[15:35] <ricotz> rodrigo_, seb128, hello :)
[15:36] <rodrigo_> hi ricotz
[15:36] <seb128> hey ricotz
[15:36] <njpatel> pitti, can i haz workitem status please? :) http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/u/njpatel.html
[15:36] <ricotz> is there a decision made yet wether gdm3 will be synced from debian?
[15:37] <ricotz> seb128, ^
[15:37] <seb128> synced? no way
[15:37] <seb128> we have quite some diff, it requires a merge
[15:37] <ricotz> ok, what about the package name?
[15:38] <seb128> if somebody wants to rename and merge it do it
[15:38] <ricotz> i uploaded accountsservice to the ppa and disabled a gdm3 patch to fit the ubuntu naming
[15:38] <seb128> nobody in the team judged merging gdm was worth the effort
[15:38] <ricotz> no i actually wouldnt rename it
[15:38] <seb128> is gdm3 in the ppa?!
[15:39] <ricotz> using the actual approach of gdm in the ppa is fine to me
[15:39] <ricotz> seb128, yes
[15:39] <seb128> the login manager should be something that is merged correctly, not a sync from debian
[15:40] <ricotz> seb128, ok, while keeping the current state, you might want to upload the modified accountsservice to oneiric
[15:40] <ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+sourcepub/1740115/+listing-archive-extra
[15:40] <seb128> we are on sync with debian and I would like to keep it this way, why do we need a patch? did you put the patch up to review somewhere?
[15:41] <ricotz> they introduced a patch to fit there gdm3 folder-naming-change
[15:42] <seb128> hum, ok
[15:42] <seb128> we should update the patch to check for the debian path first and then fallback to the standard one
[15:44] <seb128> ricotz, thanks for pointing it
[15:45] <seb128> pitti, is there any reason you dropped the beta1 target for the gnoime3 workitems?
[15:45] <seb128> - Work items (oneiric-beta-1):
[15:45] <seb128> + Work items:
[15:45] <ricotz> seb128, ok, disabling the patch should be fine for now
[15:45] <seb128> ricotz, right, I will do that
[15:45] <ricotz> seb128, you could sponsor the package :P
[15:46] <seb128> ricotz, do you have a merge request somewhere?
[15:46] <ricotz> hmm, no
[15:46] <seb128> hum ok, I can grab it from the ppa I guess
[15:47] <seb128> but it would be nice if you could try to get things back in the distro by following normal sponsoring workflows ;-)
[15:47] <ricotz> seb128, ok, i know :(
[15:48] <ricotz> seb128, oh, are you able to sponsor gnome-desktop3 in debian?
[15:48] <ricotz> i mean upload 3.0.1-2
[15:48] <seb128> not easily today, I need to fix my debian vm and update it but I can try to do later
[15:48] <seb128> what did you change there?
[15:49] <ricotz> i added the introspection which is needed for gnome-shell-extensions
[15:49] <seb128> ok
[15:49] <ricotz> seb128, i will ask there
[15:50] <seb128> let's see if someone else does it first, it doesn't seem to be a priority and will need to go through NEW
[15:50] <seb128> ok
[15:53] <Sweetshark> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/The-Document-Foundation-announces-the-members-of-the-Engineering-Steering-Committee-td2975506.html <- yeaha!
[16:02] <micahg> Sweetshark: congrats!
[16:02] <Sweetshark> micahg: thanks ;)
[16:20] <ricotz> rodrigo_, i am not sure about the libunique-dev (i.e. in vino) shouldnt this be libuniqe-3.0-dev?
[16:20] <ricotz> rodrigo__, ^
[16:21] <ricotz> rodrigo__, also libappindicator3-dev
[16:22] <ricotz> bbl
[16:22] <didrocks> seb128: do you have a org.gnome.sesson gsettings schema installed? (I find references to it in gnome-session but no schema and I don't have an oneiric, even partially upgraded, box)
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, no
[16:22] <didrocks> org.gnome.desktop.session*
[16:22] <didrocks> hum…
[16:22] <seb128> gsettings-desktop-schemas: /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/org.gnome.desktop.session.gschema.xml
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, that yes
[16:22] <seb128> no org.gnome.session though
[16:22] <didrocks> ah :)
[16:23] <didrocks> ok, that's even, I'll check the dep is ok, but will add a patch to it to set the "ubuntu" session by default
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, you can install it on natty as well
[16:23] <didrocks> thanks ed1703 :)
[16:23] <didrocks> seb128: *
[16:23] <seb128> yw
[16:29] <kinouchou> salut didrocks et seb128
[16:29] <didrocks> hey kinouchou!
[16:29] <seb128> lut kinouchou
[16:46] <rodrigo_> ugh, inet is not working well today here
[16:46] <ricotz> rodrigo_, did you get my question?
[16:46] <rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, not sure, what question?
[16:47] <rodrigo_> ah, about vino
[16:47] <rodrigo_> yes
[16:47] <ricotz> i looked at vino and  libunique-dev -> libuniqe-3.0-dev?
[16:47] <ricotz> yes
[16:47] <ricotz> same for libappindicator
[16:47] <rodrigo_> yes, looking
[16:48] <rodrigo_> libunique is no longer used, so no need for libunique-3.0
[16:48] <rodrigo_> and yes, libappindicator one is wron
[16:49] <ricotz> ok, so you can drop this one
[16:49] <rodrigo_> since the indicator patch is disabled, that's why it doesn't crash with GTK2/3 symbols error
[16:49] <ricotz> ah ok
[16:49] <rodrigo_> but yes, changing it now
[16:52] <fta> mterry, ping (wrt deja-dup)
[16:52] <mterry> fta, hello!
[16:52] <fta> mterry, hi
[16:53] <fta> mterry, i'm exploring deja-dup to backup my main desktop. i want to use ssh (towards my serv-farm)
[16:54] <fta> mterry, but there's a weak link in between (my dsl link at home). what's the behavior of d-d wrt disconnections?
[16:55] <rodrigo_> ricotz, fixed and uploaded
[16:56] <cjwatson> could somebody fix evolution-exchange?  it's currently uninstallable, so ubuntu-desktop is uninstallable
[16:56] <seb128> cyphermox, ^
[16:56] <cyphermox> yes
[16:56] <mterry> fta, so if the network goes down, it will present an error.  And try again later.  It should resume where it left off.
[16:56] <seb128> cjwatson, GNOME3 transition, it's taking some time
[16:57] <fta> mterry, even with encrypted backups?
[16:57] <mterry> fta, yeah, why would that matter?
[16:59] <fta> mterry, good question ;) i don't know how it's done but i can think of issues with resumes if stuff is encrypted in flight but is incomplete
[17:00] <fta> mterry, also, would be nice to have a "dry-run" feature in the "Files" settings
[17:00] <mterry> fta, the way it works is that everything gets chunked up, into say, 10MB chunks, then encrypted.  So if it gets incomplete, you'll just not have done the latest chunk
[17:00] <mterry> fta, you mean, see how much space is included by the files settings?
[17:00] <fta> mterry, oh, ok. good
[17:01] <mterry> fta, baobab helps with that, but it would be nice to give a notice
[17:01] <fta> mterry, yep, optionally the list of dirs, or something like baobab
[17:01] <fta> mterry, .. but baobab doesn't know about the includes/excludes of d-d
[17:02] <fta> i don't want to send several TB over my dsl link, it will never complete
[17:02] <mterry> fta, we do an internal dry-run when backing up, but don't show it to user...
[17:02] <cjwatson> seb128: I know, but oneiric being uninstallable causes some problems so I want to make sure somebody is aware of them
[17:02] <cjwatson> I realise it can't be installable all the time - I didn't ask until it had been on the list for a while
[17:02] <seb128> cjwatson, right, we are working on it
[17:03] <cyphermox> cjwatson: working on it now :)
[17:03] <cjwatson> thanks
[17:03] <seb128> thanks for pointing it
[17:03] <cjwatson> (I'm working on live CD build stuff - falling back to working with natty at the moment for a stable base, but can't do that forever :-) )
[17:04] <seb128> cjwatson, is that the only issue currently?
[17:04] <cyphermox> cjwatson: any other things under ubuntu-desktop?
[17:04] <cjwatson> that was the only one blocking the ubuntu-desktop task when I tested earlier
[17:05] <cjwatson> totem is FTBFS too, but I assume somebody has mail about that and it doesn't seem to be breaking ubuntu-desktop at the moment
[17:05] <fta> mterry, last question, if a network error occurs during a backup, will it retry on the next week (or whatever the schedule is) or is it smarter?
[17:06] <cjwatson> ah, totem was just fixed, never mind that
[17:06] <mterry> fta, it will retry next time you login, or the next day if you don't logout
[17:07] <seb128> cjwatson, right, I fixed that one today
[17:09] <fta> mterry, hm.. my backup will never complete then :(
[17:10] <mterry> fta, that flaky?
[17:10] <fta> mterry, oh yes. you have no idea :(
[17:12] <fta> mterry, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/flaky-adsl.png
[17:13] <mterry> fta, as a workaround, you could back up to a local folder and then get it to your ssh server somehow
[17:14] <fta> not sure i have enough disk space to do that :P
[17:16] <ricotz> seb128, you might be interested in this -- http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=ibus -- http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/i/ibus/
[17:17] <seb128> ricotz, thanks, I will wait for it to land in Debian, I'm just doing merges for now and we don't really need ibus on gtk3 yet
[17:18] <seb128> having things before debian always risk to have a divergance in the binaries naming
[17:18] <ricotz> seb128, no problem, just wanted to point you there since this guy is member of the gnome3-team and uploaded it the ppa
[17:19] <seb128> ok; thanks
[17:19] <ricotz> the packaging in the ppa is different though
[17:28] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[17:28] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey
[17:28] <rickspencer3> I just updated, and now gwibber is taking up one of my CPU cores, and firefox the other one :/
[17:30] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[17:31] <rickspencer3> hiya didrocks
[17:31] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3
[17:32] <rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
[17:33] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[17:33] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I am doing well, how about yourself?
[17:33] <rickspencer3> firerfox seems to have finished doing whatever it was doing with my CPU core
[17:33] <chrisccoulson> yeah, pretty good thanks. just getting ready to upgrade everyone to firefox 5 ;)
[17:33] <rickspencer3> gwibber as well
[17:33] <rickspencer3> I have my netbook back!!
[17:34] <pitti> seb128: beta target> oneiric-beta-1 is not a valid milestone, but the spec is already targetted to ubuntu-11.10-beta-1, so the default target for WIs is that already
[17:35] <seb128> pitti, ok, the codenames don't work this cycle? ok, makes sense, thanks
[17:35] <pitti> seb128: they never did
[17:35] <pitti> seb128: it's codename-alpha, but ubuntu-releasenumber-beta*
[17:35] <seb128> oh right
[17:35] <chrisccoulson> that's caught me out before ;)
[17:35] <seb128> I got confused
[17:36] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, so you stopped pretending today is an holiday and went back to work? ;-)
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - lol. yeah :)
[17:40] <pitti> hm, none of my uploads to Debian today actually hit the archive, or is visible on ftp-master, or sent me any kind of mail
[17:40] <pitti> wonder what's wrong
[17:41] <seb128> pitti, it's not only you at least but not sure what's going on there
[17:50] <bryce> debian upgraded alioth this weekend, could be fallout from that?
[17:52] <seb128> bryce, it should not, alioth is a different infrastructure from the archive
[17:53] <pitti> and it's mostly back; svn committing works again, just websvn is still gone
[18:07] <Laney> pitti: dak broke
[18:08] <Laney> 23/05 11:18:43 <adsb> :-( looks like show-new died again without releasing unchecked.lock
[18:13] <pitti> Laney: jcristau also confirmed, thanks
[18:13] <Laney> ah ok
[18:13] <Laney> i idle in #debian-ftp for such news
[18:18] <hv> will there be an oneiric release/mile-stone/alpha/etc. with gtk3/gnome3 stuff soon?
[18:19] <didrocks> hv: the 2nd of June, as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[18:19] <dobey> hv: depends on what you mean by "stuff" i guess; much is already in, so i guess alpha1 will have it
[18:22] <hv> dobey: well, I know I shouldn't be using oneiric, yet, but still...   many things feel broken (probably a combination of my fault and unreleased ongoing packages).  I was merely trying to see if I can/should live on the cutting edge a bit longer.
[18:24] <dobey> hv: well, stuff is broken. but that's what happens when you end up switching everything to an api incompatibile toolkit i guess :)
[18:24] <hv> sure, otherwise it wouldn't be fun ;-)
[18:24] <micahg> if anyone has a moment, bug 786417 could use sponsoring to unbreak natty->oneiric upgrades
[18:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 786417 in gnome-control-center "package gnome-control-center-data (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gnome-control-center/keybindings/50-accessibility.xml', which is also in package gnome-settings-daemon 2.32.1-0ubuntu13.1" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786417
[18:27] <hv> micahg: but gnome-settings-daemon 3.0.1 is in, right?
[18:27] <hv> oops, I spoke too soon
[18:31] <hv> just to be sure, are theming, appmenu, and nautilus as desktop broken at the moment?
[18:33] <hv> or just something's wrong with my setup?
[18:49] <dobey> hv: theming and nautilus are definitely broken for me
[18:50] <dobey> ze background is a gl buffer blur
[18:53] <robbiew> whew...Oneiric is rrrrrough right now
[18:53] <robbiew> lol
[19:06] <stgraber> robbiew: believe me, it was a lot worse a few days ago ;)
[19:07] <didrocks> why people are complaining on #ubuntu-desktop. Not our fault :p
[19:07] <didrocks> (or maybe a little ;))
[19:09] <stgraber> I'm not complaining ;) It works "fine" here (as long as I make sure I never close my session)
[19:09] <didrocks> stgraber: more trouble tomorrow, I'm remerging gnome-session and you don't want to look at the diff :)
[19:10] <stgraber> ouch
[19:10] <didrocks> ok, time for dinner, see you tomorrow!
[19:11] <robbiew> didrocks: heh...not complaining, just warning those who might be adventurous ;)
[19:59] <mterry> pitti, can you do me a favor and add ~jklein to the canonical contributor agreement group?  He signed it for the netbook-launcher-efl project
[21:09] <dobey> hrmm, java seems pretty broken on O
[21:10] <JFo> s/on O//
[21:10] <JFo> ;)
[21:10] <dobey> JFo: well yes, but the packages won't even configure on O
[21:11] <JFo> I see
[21:12] <dobey> hrmm, and can't seem to install python-qt4 either
[21:16] <dobey> ah got java "fixed"
[21:16] <dobey> the postinst stuff was needing /usr/lib/libnss3.so, but it seems to have been moved to /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/ or whatever
[21:16] <dobey> symlink made the configure work
[21:24] <micahg> dobey: there's a better workaround in the LP bug for it, that one was fixed in oneiric, but I'm hitting another oe
[21:26] <dobey> micahg: fixed when?
[21:27] <micahg> dobey: last week
[21:27] <micahg> bug 779174
[21:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 779174 in openjdk-6 "package ca-certificates-java 20110426 failed to install/upgrade: fix path to libnss3 for multiarch" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779174
[21:28] <dobey> micahg: then it's not fixed, because i only upgraded to O on this machine on friday, and there was no update for ca-certificates-java today
[21:28] <micahg> dobey: the update was for openjdk
[21:29] <dobey> micahg: how does that work if it depends on ca-certificates-java being configured before it can be installed? but either way, none of the updates as of today fixed it; i had to make the symlink to fix it
[21:31] <micahg> dobey: well, it's not affecting people upgrading anymore at least, you can ask doko if he wants to do a fix for people on oneiric already
[21:33] <dobey> well i'll add a comment on the bug
[21:33] <dobey> but even now that i got past that, i can't seem to install python-qt4 :(
[21:53] <chmrr> cyphermox: broder suggested that I mention my networkmanager pony to you.  Specifically, I understand there's a plan for per-SSID/BSSID firewall and proxy settings for 11.10 -- I'd love it if there were also a dropdown for "use this VPN when on this SSID" in there
[22:02] <dobey> huh, i wonder what broke logilab-common, since the version in the archive seems to fail unit tests here when i try to debuild it
[22:47] <JackyAlcine> How come nvidia-current isn't installed in Ubuntu by default?
[22:51] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu does not install any non-free software by default. Nvidia-current uses a proprietary driver
[22:52] <charlie-tca> Until intel and ati made their drivers open-source, we did not install them either
[22:52] <JackyAlcine> Hmm, so how is this going to be addressed in 11.10? Currently Unity uses Compiz (correct me if I'm wrong) and that needs (on some systems, nvidia-current).
[22:52] <JackyAlcine> Can there be a utility that asks the user if they'd like to install it? It'd save lives.
[22:52] <broder> there *is* such a utility
[22:53] <broder> and it runs at startup if there are any such drivers available
[22:53] <broder> it shows up as a little picture of a PCI board in the panel
[22:53] <micahg> it's called jockey :)
[22:54] <broder> that being said, the open-source nvidia drivers (nouveau) are also getting better, and as i understand it we're planning to try turning on their 3D support by default this cycle
[22:57] <JackyAlcine> broder and micahg: but even before you get to that; if you attempt to run Unity on the desktop, it'd fail and log you out.
[22:58] <charlie-tca> We should also have the fallback to 2d, not requiring the nvidia-current driver
[22:58] <JackyAlcine> charlie-tca, +1
[23:01] <bcurtiswx> idk if it's more appropriate to ask in here or not, since desktop team maintains this package.  I was asked to rebase seahorse, and I went ahead and did so, but since this is a new process I'm learning I am wondering if someone could look it over for me and let me know what i did wrong and how to correct it
[23:01] <bcurtiswx> https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/oneiric/seahorse/3.0.0-1ubuntu1
[23:02] <bcurtiswx> it built fine
[23:06] <broder> JackyAlcine: in 11.10 we *will* fall back to unity-2d if 3d support isn't there
[23:06] <broder> and even right now it shouldn't fail and log you out. it'll fail and drop you into gnome classic
[23:08] <JackyAlcine> Hmm. Well, if I can reproduce the occasion in a VM, I'll try to produce a bug report, broder
[23:30] <fta> mterry, d-d doesn't seem to do anything (ssh). no error, no nothing. i see a progress bar in the unity badge, stuck at 0% forever
[23:38] <lifeless> how do you re-hotplug a built in pointer (my touchpad)
[23:40] <Omega> broder: I was just about to say this, we do currently fall back.
[23:42] <mterry> fta, odd.  file a bug?  the bug form tells you how to get logs
[23:47] <fta> mterry, i just selected 1 dir, to test. when i click on backup now, i briefly see something, then nada, it sits there forever
[23:47] <mterry> fta, and you click on the launcher icon and it just says "preparing"?
[23:48] <fta> mterry, nope, it wobbles for a while, but nothing happens
[23:48] <mterry> fta, oh!  you click the launcher icon and no window appears?  that's very odd
[23:49] <fta> mterry, oneiric, in case it matters
[23:50] <mterry> fta, oh, maybe.  that's a bit more cutting edge...  I'll have to test again
[23:55] <RAOF> lifeless: How have you un-hotblugged it? :).  You can probably get udevadm to twiddle the magical bits, though.
[23:56] <RAOF> lifeless: From the man page, I'd guess that “udevadm test $STUFF” would get you a udev event so that X re-hotplugs your touchpad.  For sufficient values of STUFF.