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* skaet waves15:57
* charlie-tca waves15:58
skaethi bjf,  charlie-tca15:58
charlie-tcaGood morning, skaet15:58
skaetlooks like its about that time16:00
skaetnot sure if we have quorum or not16:00
hggdhmorning all16:00
skaetmorning hggdh :)16:01
MootBotMeeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.16:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:01
skaetSRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting.16:01
skaetReminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.16:01
brendandmorning everyone16:01
skaetKarmic Koala (9.10) final announce is pending last kernel being published.16:02
skaetHardy Heron Desktop (8.04) is waiting for signal as well.16:02
skaetDapper Drake (6.06) Server will end of life in June 2011.16:02
skaet[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases16:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases16:02
skaet10.04.3 - July 14-> July 21 - moving it out a week to balance better around Alpha 2.16:02
skaetbjf, sconklin when will the last kernel's be ready for publishing for Karmic and Hardy?16:03
sconklinAs soon as they are tested and cert and qa and the archive admins sign off. The stable kernel team is finished with them16:04
skaetsconklin,  thanks.16:04
bjfskaet, as per the email thread on this, this is not the last hardy kernel16:05
skaetbjf,  ok,  will go back through my inbox carefully,  catching up right now after a week off.16:05
skaet[TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin, bjf16:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin, bjf16:06
sconklinpretty much already been covered. everything is done for the last cycle16:06
sconklinWe're about to start another one.16:06
sconklinThe dates we're working toward are in the canonical kernel team calendar. When the master calender has dates, we'll work to them16:07
sconklinsorry, ubuntu kernel calendar16:08
skaetbrendand, go ahead16:09
brendanddoes this commence the new 3 week cadence?16:10
brendandand is the new bug process going to be used?16:10
sconklin"new bug process" == what?16:10
* JFo is curious16:10
sconklinoh, you mean workflow tools16:11
brendandsorry, maybe wrong words. i mean the new SRU workflow16:11
brendandand lastly, where is the ubuntu kernel calendar, for future reference?16:11
sconklinlooking for the url16:12
bjfi'll find it16:12
skaetsconklin, any concerns about 10.04.3 moving out a week?16:13
sconklinskaet: first I heard about it. Is it in a calendar? probably not a problem but I didn't know we had a master schedule for the next cycle yet16:14
skaetsconklin,  will be getting the master calendar up this week.  Just wanted to check with SRU kernel team before putting it up.16:15
skaetand let others here following this have a chance to flag issues too ;)16:15
sconklinI didn't know where it was scheduled originally even, so don;t know whether a week will make a difference16:15
sconklinbut I doubt it will be a problem16:16
bjfbrendand, skaet, external url for the ubuntu kernel calendar: https://www.google.com/calendar/hosted/canonical.com/embed?src=50d02kfdekgcjdcpc970hh83f0@group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&gsessionid=cp7W8N-DOwo48j_37lbwjg16:16
skaetthanks bjf16:16
skaetany other questions for the Kernel team?16:16
brendandbjf - thanks16:16
skaet[TOPIC] HW certification - ara16:17
MootBotNew Topic:  HW certification - ara16:17
arabrendand will be presenting for the HW certification team from this meeting on16:17
arabrendand, ?16:17
brendand== Hardware Certification SRU Update ==16:17
brendandCertification testing completed for Lucid with 90/105 systems and tracking bug updated. Missing systems are due to lab issues.16:17
brendandMaverick testing in progress. 74/119 systems tested. No regressions found so far.16:17
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/lucid-proposed.html16:17
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/maverick-proposed.html16:17
brendandNatty testing in progress. 51/90 systems tested. No regressions found so far.16:17
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/natty-proposed.html16:17
skaetwelcome brendand :)16:18
skaetwhat is the outlook on the final testing of Karmic and Hardy kernels?16:19
brendandskaet - we aren't testing Karmic or Hardy16:19
skaetbrendand, we're at a bit of an impass then.16:20
skaetfinal kernels have been published, and waiting for cert and qa to weigh in so we can announce EOL.16:20
skaetbjf go ahead16:20
bjfi think we need someone from the QA team, but I think they were going to test this week16:21
sconklinbrad first16:21
sconklintwo things.16:21
skaetjibel, hggdh, ^^ ??16:21
skaetgo ahead sconklin16:21
sconklinFirst, slipping .3 a week actually lines up nicely with our schedule16:21
sconklinsecond, this is not a final Lucid kernel. We need to stop writing that16:22
sconklinsorry, Hardy16:22
sconklinThere is no final desktop kernel16:22
sconklinwe continue to produce kernels until server goes out of support16:23
skaetsconklin, you had me worried about the lucid ;)   noted about hardy- I'll be a bit more careful.16:23
sconklinlucid's time will come ;-)16:23
skaetara,  go ahead16:24
arain the hw cert team we are never testing karmic or hardy. so you guys should only wait on QA for those two16:24
skaetI'm going to need to go do some homework then.16:26
skaetwill follow up on email list if warranted.16:26
skaetanyone around from QA?16:26
hggdhskaet: ^16:27
hggdhwe will get it done16:28
skaethggdh,  cool.  you ready to give a status today, or will jibel be doing it?16:28
hggdhskaet: I am not prepared for it, I would rather have jibel doing it (if you do not mind)16:29
skaetno worries.16:29
skaetany other questions for brendand ?16:29
skaet[TOPIC] QA status - jibel16:29
MootBotNew Topic:  QA status - jibel16:29
* skaet looks around for jibel?16:30
skaet[TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof16:30
MootBotNew Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof16:30
vanhoofskaet: nothing pressing for the next cycle16:31
skaetthanks vanhoof.16:31
skaetis martin s. around?16:31
skaetpitti has a conflict - but no red flags from him.16:32
skaetsupport has flagged two bugs to the individual teams16:32
skaetTOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions? - all16:33
skaet[TOPIC] New business, etc...16:33
MootBotNew Topic:  New business, etc...16:33
hggdhskaet: for the record, hardy kernel was approved by QA last week16:34
skaetthanks hggdh,  appreciate the update.  :)16:34
* skaet looks around16:34
hggdhand we will start with Maverick this week (oldest pending kernel)16:34
* hggdh is done now ;-)16:35
skaethggdh,  could you look at Karmic so we can formally EOL it?16:35
hggdhskaet: certainly16:35
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:35.16:35
arathanks skaet16:36
skaetthanks sconklin, bjf, ara, brendand, hggdh16:36
brendandthanks skaet16:36
hggdhthank you, skaet16:36
hggdhskaet: I do not see any karmic kernel in http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/reports/sru-report.html16:37
skaethggdh,  lets take this up with sconklin and bjf in the #ubuntu-kernel channel.16:39
hggdhskaet: roger wilco16:40
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
jdstrandshall we get started?18:02
jdstrandhi everyone! :)18:03
MootBotMeeting started at 12:03. The chair is jdstrand.18:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:03
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:18:03
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting18:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting18:03
jdstrand[TOPIC] Review of any previous action items18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of any previous action items18:03
jdstrandblueprints should be (mostly) together now and our release status page up to date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric18:03
jdstrandour blueprints for this release of course fell out of our UDS discussions18:04
keesoh good, I see the workitem tracker has been reset18:04
jdstrandkees: yes! I had a feeling it would happen today :)18:04
jdstrandI think kees and I need to still do some light review, but by and large the work items should be all set18:04
jdstrandI don't think there is a lot to spec out, beyond dbus/apparmor18:05
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly stand-up report18:05
jdstrandI'll go first18:05
jdstrandI'm in the happy place this week (yea)18:05
jdstrandI have a dbus-glib update I am getting back into. some my testing for that will help me define the test cases for the dbus/apparmor bp, which I hope to start looking at again this week. depending on what pops up, it is at least theoretically possible for me to pick up another update18:06
jdstrandother than a few administrative things that don't I don't need to waste time here with, I think that is it from me18:07
jdstrandkees: you're up18:07
keesokay, I'm on triage. I've at least got exim4 to do, and the hardy kernel announcement18:07
keesafter that, I'm trying to grind out all the graph data work items, since those should fall quickly if I can just get u-c-t to behave.18:08
keesI've got some oneiric kernel work to do too (nx-emu rebase)18:08
* jdstrand hugs kees18:08
* kees hugs jdstrand18:08
keesI'll probably have some MIR work sprinkled around too. we'll see. :)18:09
keesthat's it from me. mdeslaur is up.18:09
jdstrandmdeslaur: is on holiday today18:09
jdstrandsbeattie: you're up. I can't get my regex right18:09
* sbeattie waits for the regexs to finish.18:10
sbeattieI'm on community this week, after triaging last week.18:10
sbeattieI have an apr update in the pipe, though I'm now trying to track down why the lucid arm build failed in a testcase.18:10
sbeattie(hooray for the vagaries of chroot builds)18:11
sbeattieafter that, I want to start poking at my apparmor work items for this cycle.18:12
sbeattieI also have some post uds administrivia to complete.18:12
jdstrandinteresting. I would guess that if it was armel, it wouldn't be chroot specific, but I've not looked at it at all18:12
jdstrand(just armel that is)18:12
* jdstrand also has post uds administrivia18:13
sbeattiejdstrand: the testcase that failed had to do with mutexs, so I'm suspecting that its a difference between kernels18:13
sbeattieyeah. and by yeah, I mean no.18:14
sbeattieI think that's it for me.18:14
jdstrandmicahg: you're up!18:14
micahgso, I have that thunderbird regression with the empty menubar to publish today18:14
micahgmozilla has announced some of there plans for release schedules18:15
micahg3.5 is EOL (doesn't afffect us, just seamonkey will need to go to 2.1.x)18:15
micahg3.6 will have updates for the moment18:15
micahg4's security update will be 5, so we'll have to upgrade natty on june 2118:15
nxvlare we still talking about TB?18:16
micahgnxvl: no, sorry, Firefox18:16
nxvli assumed :D18:16
micahgThunderbird will stay on 3.1.x for the moment18:16
micahgnatty will be our test migration case18:16
micahgI'll be drafting a page to track what we need to do before the upgrade18:17
micahgchrisccoulson has done some awesome work to make these transitions smoother WRT language updates18:17
micahgwe'll review at the rally how the natty upgrade went and plan the other migrations (firefox for lucid/maverick and thunderbird in stable)18:18
micahgso, after drafting the initial plan, I want to try to get the pending webkit updates out18:19
micahgand I'm expecting a chromium update either this week or early next week18:20
micahgthat's it for me18:20
jdstrandmicahg: sounds great. thanks!18:20
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions18:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions18:20
jdstrandjjohansen: I'll probably be talking to you later in the week re libapparmor for dbus (all I need is the api call and it to return something based on the env, like we discussed)18:22
jdstrandother than that, I don't have anything to add18:22
jjohansenjdstrand: okay, sounds good18:22
jdstranddoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?18:22
jdstrandgoing once...18:23
jdstrandgoing twice...18:24
jdstrandthanks everyone! :)18:24
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:24.18:24
keesthanks jdstrand!18:24
sbeattiejdstrand: thanks!18:24
micahgthanks jdstrand18:25
jdstrandyou bet! :)18:25
* stgraber waves20:01
* Laney rings a bell20:01
* bdrung_ waves.20:01
stgraberI was just checking my calendar to make sure I didn't have timezone conversion issue again ;)20:02
Laneygoogle now reminds me via SMS :-)20:02
Laneypersia: maco cody-somerville20:02
stgraberwow, we almost have everyone around this time!20:03
Laneywho wants to chair?20:03
Laney(we should start deciding at the end of the meeting)20:04
MootBotMeeting started at 14:04. The chair is persia.20:04
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]20:04
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda20:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda20:04
persia[TOPIC] Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues20:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues20:05
persiacody-somerville, ?20:05
Laneydon't think he is here, and this has been on the agenda for /months/ now20:05
persiaWe should have done it last time: he was there then.20:05
LaneyWe're waiting for a report.20:06
persia[TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Application for John Rigby20:06
MootBotNew Topic:  PerPackageUploader Application for John Rigby20:06
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnRigby/DeveloperApplication-LinaroLinuxAndUBoot20:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnRigby/DeveloperApplication-LinaroLinuxAndUBoot20:06
persiajcrigby, How are you today?20:06
jcrigbyyes for once:)20:06
ScottKOn the kmos issue, I think it's a bit unfair to leave it there where people who are interested in the topic never know when it's going to come up.20:06
ScottKI wish you all would pick a meeting when you're going to deal with it and get it over with.20:07
LaneyWe should take it to mail and bring it back when it's ready.20:07
LaneyI agree20:07
cody-somervilleApologies about the kmos situation. +1 for Laney and ScottK's suggestion.20:07
persia[AGREED] Remove Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues from the agenda until there is planned discussion20:07
MootBotAGREED received:  Remove Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues from the agenda until there is planned discussion20:07
persiajcrigby, Thanks for coming today.20:07
jcrigbyglad to be here20:09
persiajcrigby, Are you involved in Ubuntu in any way beyond the packages you mention?20:10
jcrigbynot really no20:10
hrwdo we have quorum today?20:10
persiajcrigby, What do you find most difficult about packaging best practices?20:11
jcrigbyremembering the incantations20:11
Laneyjcrigby: (after persia's question[s]) Can you briefly explain the major freezes in the Ubuntu development cycle and how they affect your packages?20:12
jcrigbyLaney, I am obviously unprepared for that one20:12
bdrung_jcrigby: why do we have special linaro packages in addition to the normal package (e.g. u-boot and u-boot-linaro)?20:12
jcrigbyLinaro is on its own schedule20:12
macooh, good to know20:13
jcrigbybdrung_, actually u-boot-linaro is the only u-boot now days20:13
jcrigbyubuntu uses u-boot-linaro20:13
LaneyAre these packages not subject to the Ubuntu release schedule?20:13
hrwmaco: we (Linaro) release ~month after Ubuntu20:13
jcrigbyLaney, for this oneiric Linaro is releasing monthly20:14
hrwmaco: but recently we switched most of teams to monthly releases20:14
bdrung_jcrigby: what does u-boot-linaro contain in comparison to upstream u-boot?20:14
jcrigbyLaney, and for releases after ff we will release via a ppa to avoid sru issues20:14
persiaI believe the packages *should* be subject to the release schedule, as there are images that depend upon them shipped as part of the release.20:14
macojcrigby: was that ff = feature freeze or final freeze?20:15
jcrigbymaco final20:15
jcrigbywe can do ffe's for feature freeze20:15
persiajcrigby, What considerations do you make when requesting an FFe?20:16
jcrigbyat that point I only allow bug fixes that are must haves for the release20:16
jcrigbyno new "nice" features20:17
persiaDo you maintain separate for-ubuntu and linaro-next trees for this?20:17
* cody-somerville has to jet; will write e-mail to DMB when I get back.20:17
Laneysee you20:17
jcrigbypersia, I keep -next git trees but those do not have packaging bits in them20:17
jcrigbypersia, they are for board enablement folks20:18
persiaThat makes sense.20:18
jcrigbyon the kernel side I actually do keep a work in progress (wip) tree that does have the packaging in it20:19
jcrigbythat is for people that are willing to build there own packaged kernel20:19
jcrigbyand I have tried to help people that want to do that but lack the knowledge20:19
jcrigbyI have also helped the linaro landing teams with their packagig20:20
jcrigbysince they are usually enablement people not packaging people20:20
persiaAnyone else with more questions?20:21
persia[VOTE] Approve John Rigby (jcrigby) for PerPackage Upload rights to u-boot-linaro and linux-linaro-*20:22
MootBotPlease vote on:  Approve John Rigby (jcrigby) for PerPackage Upload rights to u-boot-linaro and linux-linaro-*.20:22
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:22
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:22
MootBotAbstention received from Laney. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 020:23
MootBotAbstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 020:23
MootBot+1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 120:25
maco+1 given slangasek's testimonial and an understanding of FF, i'm ok with him20:25
MootBot+1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 220:25
MootBot+1 received from bdrung_. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 320:25
MootBot+1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 420:25
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 420:25
persiajcrigby, Congratulations.20:26
stgraberjcrigby: congrats!20:26
persia[TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for  Phillip Susi20:27
MootBotNew Topic:  Contributing Developer application for  Phillip Susi20:27
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication20:27
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication20:27
persiapsusi, Thanks for coming today.20:27
persiaOr,maybe next time.20:29
macopsusi: care to introduce?20:29
macobrad figg i guess?20:30
persia[TOPIC] PerPackage Uploader application for Brad Figg20:31
MootBotNew Topic:  PerPackage Uploader application for Brad Figg20:31
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BradFigg/DeveloperApplication20:31
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BradFigg/DeveloperApplication20:31
JFoyay bjf!20:31
persiabjf, Thanks for coming today20:31
LaneyIsn't there a kernel package set?20:32
persiaYou ask for upload rights to the linux-* packages.  Do you want that, or did you mean to apply to be part of the kernel uploaders team?20:32
macoi think this was clarified on email as "kernel package set"20:32
persiaI thought so, just wanted to be clear.20:33
MootBotLINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/612008/20:33
persia[LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-uploaders20:33
MootBotLINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-uploaders20:33
bjfI'm Brad Figg. I've been an Ubuntu contributor since joining Canonical two years ago. I am a member of the Kernel Team.20:33
bjfI've been a linux developer/user for many years.20:33
maco"I was just trying to be clear what I was asking for, if there is a kernel package set then that is what I'm going for."  <-- what brad said when Laney asked20:33
bjfI am currently working on the stable kernel maintenance.  I've been doing stable kernel maintenance for two dev cycles and am schedule to continue doing same for another two cycles.20:34
bjfI'm applying for upload rights for the linux kernel packages.20:34
bjfI'm proud of the stable work that I've done, we've made some significant changes to the20:34
bjfstable maintenance process.20:34
bjfi'm good at cut/paste if that is a requirement :-)20:34
sconklinfwiw I've been signing Brad's packages (sponsoring his uploads) for six months, and he's fully capable20:34
LaneyCan you explain how a stable kernel update is typically QAd?20:35
LaneyAlso, does the kernel team work with Debian's at all? ;-)20:36
bjflaney, it's a multi-step process, are you familiar with the kernel cadence that we've gone to?20:36
* bdrung_ isn't.20:36
persiaPlease share20:36
bjflaney, yes, we discuss things regularly with the debian kernel folks20:36
bjfpersia, will do :-)20:36
persia(especially as ogasawara credits you with bringing order to it)20:37
bjfcurrently, we are moving to a three week cadence20:37
sconklinexcuse me pasting links20:37
bjfweek 1, we prepare kernels and upload packages (upload to the kernel team ppa)20:37
bjfweek 2, we require verification of LP bugs that have been fixed via the uploaded kernel20:38
bjfany bugs that fail verification or are not verified, the corresponding commits are reverted and new packages are uploaded20:38
bjfweek 3, the QA and Certification teams take over, and run their tests.20:38
Laneywhen does the upload to -proposed happen? what kind of interaction is there with the Ubuntu SRU team?20:39
macobjf: ever had any problems where the reverts after week 2 caused regressions, maybe due to side-effects/interactions between patches & disappearing patches?20:39
bjfthe QA tests are composed of: qbench, tbench tiobench, security tests (crafted by the security team) and some ltp lite tests20:39
Laney(and regular SRU verification)20:40
bjflaney, generally we just ping them to pocket-copy, we are changing this as well to use an LP bug for workflow, maybe sconklin can post a url for that as well :-)20:40
persiabjf, pocket-copy to where?20:41
bjfmaco, yes, same proceedure, we revert the commit, roll a new package and upload20:41
bjfpersia, from our ppa to -proposed20:41
bjfmaco, once the new package has been uploaded, qa and cert testing starts again20:41
bjfmaco, this could go on for some time, however, it hasn't in the last two dev cycles20:42
* Laney is done with questions20:42
bjflaney, maco, bdrung_ persia the purpose of moving to this cadence is predictability20:42
macobjf: thanks, thats the bit i was unsure about :)20:43
bjfit was very difficult in the past to be able to give some indication of when a patch was going to get out20:43
* sconklin is unable to get launchpad qastaging to do anything other than time out20:43
sconklinthat's where our example bug is20:43
bjfas it is now, worst case (baring reversions) is 6 weeks from when a patch is accepted until it hits -updates20:43
bdrung_bjf: some packagers feel that it's hard to get their changes into the kernel due to all the rules. are there plans to change that?20:44
bjfbdrung_, no changes to the rules, we are actually quite flexible (our opinion) and will discuss changes with anyone20:44
bjfbdrung_, however, stability is crucial20:45
sconklinhere's one that doesn't have the team assignments made, but you can see how we track workflow tasks https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/kernel-sru-workflow/verification-testing/+bug/71886620:45
ubottuUbuntu bug 718866 in unity-2d "[panel] Indicator list is hardcoded" [Medium,Fix released]20:45
bjfsconklin, thanks20:45
persiabjf: In your application, you seem to have skipped one of my favourite bits: What single thing in Ubuntu do you think should most be improved?20:45
bdrung_bjf: i was thinking about changes for the development version (currently oneiric).20:46
bjfpersia, thinking about it20:46
bjfbdrung_, well, we certainly prefer that we get any changes from upstream or that the changes we take are heading upstream, we are not a test kernel for everyone's crack20:47
bjfbdrung_, the larger the community, the more conservative we need to be20:47
bdrung_bjf: i can remember that i once want to push a fix from lirc into the kernel. it took me ages to do that.20:48
bjfbdrung_, we are already put out the most recent upstream kernel of any distro (i mean we track the upstream kernel the closest)20:48
bjfbdrung_, were your changes going upstream?20:48
bdrung_bjf: it was a backported upstream patch20:49
bjfbdrung_, ok, i don't know the specifics, but that usually fits within our rules, it can depend on the complexity of the backport though20:49
bdrung_i found it: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lirc/0.8.6-0ubuntu4.120:50
bjfbdrung_, our rules are not much difference than those of upstream stable maint.20:50
bdrung_the process for the kernel felt very bureaucratic20:50
bjfbdrung_, it can be, but again, stability and no-regressions are what we are striving for20:51
sconklinThis is team policy and not Brad's. If upstream won't take it, it's very unlikely we will.20:52
bjfpersia, i still don't really know how to answer your question, there are specific parts of the distro that i'd like to see changed/influenced (like the switch to unity)20:52
macopersia: that's the part i always want to skip too20:53
bjfpersia, i also think UDS could be better in certain ways20:53
persiabjf, Well, I'd encourage you to think about it.  We know we aren't perfect, but unless we can identify what is wrong, it's hard to improve.20:54
bjfpersia, remember, i'm kind of an old fart, i like my desktop the way that it was, this new fangled stuff takes some getting used to :-)20:54
persiaOn a related note, what do you feel is your weakest skill in developing for Ubuntu?20:54
bjfand i'm resisting20:54
bjfmy first thoughts would be in interaction with the community, but i've been told that i'm not as bad as i think20:55
bdrung_bjf, sconklin: ok20:55
bjfto me, this is mostly a job and not my life20:56
bdrung_bjf: re unity - all the gnome-panel lovers could unity and maintain gnome-panel. then a user can decide between unity, gnome3, and ubuntu classic (gnome-panel)20:57
bjfbdrung_, agreed20:58
persiageser, stgraber, any questions?20:58
persia[VOTE] Approve Brad Figg (bjf) as an Ubuntu Kernel Uploader20:59
MootBotPlease vote on:  Approve Brad Figg (bjf) as an Ubuntu Kernel Uploader.20:59
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:59
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:59
MootBot+1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:59
Laney+1 // Strong testimonials, obviously good skills in designing the new cadence20:59
MootBot+1 received from Laney. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:59
MootBot+1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:59
MootBot+1 received from bdrung_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:59
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 520:59
MootBot+1 received from geser. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 621:00
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 621:00
bdrung_can we extend this meeting one hour to reduce the backlog?21:00
persiabjf, Congratulations!21:00
* persia can stay21:00
ogasawara\o/, congrats bjf21:00
stgrabernot sure I can stay for another full hour, but at least for another ~30 minutes21:00
* hrw can appear at 30-40 minutes from now. have to go now21:00
sconklinless work for me!21:00
persiaWe need one more to stay quorate.21:01
macoguess i can stick around a bit longer21:01
LaneyI've got to be on the water in 30 minutes, I'm afraid21:01
* hrw -> out for now21:01
persiaNo worries.  It's a one-hour meeting.  Extension is purely voluntary :)21:02
persia[TOPIC] PerPackageUploader application for  Rosen Diankov21:02
MootBotNew Topic:  PerPackageUploader application for  Rosen Diankov21:02
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosenDiankov/DeveloperApplication21:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosenDiankov/DeveloperApplication21:02
* geser has time to process some more21:02
stgraberanyone knows his IRC nickname ? can't find it on either the wiki page or on LP21:03
persiaNeither I.21:03
persiaRosen, are you here?21:03
persiaOK.  Moving on.21:04
persia[TOPIC] Review of Bazaar Package Set21:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of Bazaar Package Set21:05
persiapoolie, jelmer, do you have time to discuss this?21:05
psusishoot, I had to run home to meet the cable guy, did I miss it again?21:05
persiapsusi, You did, but we extended, so you're next.21:05
persiaAny DMB members have comments on the Bazaar Package set they want in minutes?21:06
bdrung_psusi: one question to think about: What do you like least in Ubuntu?21:07
persia[TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for Ricardo Salveti21:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Contributing Developer application for Ricardo Salveti21:07
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoSalveti/UniverseContributorApplication21:07
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoSalveti/UniverseContributorApplication21:07
geserpersia: is there much to discuss about the bzr package set besides what packages belong there?21:07
bdrung_persia: a Bazaar package set sounds plausable21:07
persiaSorry.  I was too fast.21:07
persia[TOPIC] Review of Bazaar Package Set21:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of Bazaar Package Set21:08
persiageser, I don't think so, really.21:08
persiabdrung_, Do you suggest we should just do it, as we have two PPUs who have the same set?21:08
stgraberIIRC the DMB was the one asking for the set when reviewing jelmer's application. List looks good to me (quite similar to an "apt-cache search bzr" and matches rights we've already given to these applying for bzr upload rights)21:08
macopersia: i'm in favour of it21:08
stgraberthey are quite likely to ask for the same packages to be added to their respective PPU lists, so it's best to create a package set for it21:09
geser+1 for a bzr package set based on the bzr ppu right from jelmer and poolie21:09
persia[VOTE] Create a Bazaar Package Set and migrate poolie and jelmer to membership in an associated group.21:09
MootBotPlease vote on:  Create a Bazaar Package Set and migrate poolie and jelmer to membership in an associated group..21:09
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:09
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:09
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:09
persia+1 : makes our lives easier, really21:09
MootBot+1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 221:09
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 321:09
MootBot+1 received from bdrung_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 421:10
MootBot+1 received from maco. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 521:10
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 521:10
persiaThat was easy :)21:10
persia[TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for Ricardo Salveti21:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Contributing Developer application for Ricardo Salveti21:10
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoSalveti/UniverseContributorApplication21:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoSalveti/UniverseContributorApplication21:11
persiarsalveti, Thanks for being here today21:11
bdrung_this seems to be a good way. let the people get PPU right and create a set if two people have the same package in their list21:11
geserpersia: can you please add the bzr packages to the minutes? to have them documented somewhere easy to find again later21:12
persiageser, The list? Sure.21:12
persiaWell, maybe not.  We'll come back.21:12
persia[TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for Phillip Susi21:12
geserpersia: or the wildcards (e.g. bzr-*)21:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Contributing Developer application for Phillip Susi21:12
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication21:13
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication21:13
* hrw back in 321:13
macodid psusi come back?21:13
persiapsusi, Glad you could make it (even a bit late).21:13
stgraberyeah! ;)21:13
macooh hello21:13
psusiwoohoo, finally ;)21:14
persiapsusi, So, now that you've had some time to think, what do you like least in Ubuntu?21:14
psusiI've not really been able to come up with an answer to that really... I dislike bugs21:14
persiaDo you think we could do a better job to squash bugs somehow?21:15
psusiother than more manpower?21:15
bdrung_psusi: how to get more manpower into this area and how to use the manpower more efficiently21:16
persiaIf you think that's the solution, I'll ask how you think we can attract the necessary resources :)21:16
persia(if you have another solution, please share)21:16
geserpsusi: picking up the question from your application page: did you think about maintaining e2defrag in Debian?21:17
psusiI think the system is pretty efficient21:17
psusiespecially these days with UDS21:18
bdrung_psusi: are you happy about the sponsoring?21:18
psusierr, UDD21:18
psusiyea... UDD sponsorship has become very smooth lately, especially with the patch pilot program21:18
bdrung_great to hear that21:18
macoany parts of the bug triage/squash process that you think are particularly in need of change?21:18
psusiI'm not a debian user so that would make becoming a DD a bit tricky I think21:19
macopsusi: i'm not either, but i'm going through the DM process *duck*21:19
bdrung_psusi: you don't have to be a debian user. you don't even need to be a DD for maintaining a package in debian.21:19
maco(DM is like PPU)21:20
psusiI may end up doing that eventually, but I figured I'd start with motu21:20
bdrung_psusi: it's easier to start with DM if you really care about a specific package (especially if it's new)21:20
persiaAnyone with further questions for psusi?21:22
psusiactually I guess one thing that bothers me is bugs that sit around for years and grow stale and ignored21:22
stgraberpersia: I'm ready to vote21:23
persia[VOTE] Approve Phillip Susi (psusi) as a Contributing Developer21:24
MootBotPlease vote on:  Approve Phillip Susi (psusi) as a Contributing Developer.21:24
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:24
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:24
MootBot+1 received from bdrung_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:24
MootBot+1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 221:24
MootBot+1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 321:24
persia+1 : Your work goes well beyond the usual measurement of significant and sustained21:24
MootBot+1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 421:24
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 521:24
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 521:24
persiapsusi, Congratulations !21:24
psusiwoohoo!  finally ;)21:24
stgraberpsusi: congrats!21:25
bdrung_persia: especially sustained21:25
persiastgraber, You said you might have to go?21:25
stgraberhow many more do we have ?21:25
persiabdrung_, Yeah.  I remember psusi being around when I was still lurking.21:25
persiastgraber, 2 noshows and 2 outstanding.21:26
hrw /me ?21:26
* bdrung_ is still here.21:26
stgraberok, I can still continue for a while21:26
persia[TOPIC] Contributing Developer Application for Marcin Juszkiewicz21:27
MootBotNew Topic:  Contributing Developer Application for Marcin Juszkiewicz21:27
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcinJuszkiewicz/DeveloperApplication-PPU21:27
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcinJuszkiewicz/DeveloperApplication-PPU21:27
persiahrw, Yes, you :)21:27
hrwpersia: PPU finally21:27
persia[TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Application for Marcin Juszkiewicz21:28
MootBotNew Topic:  PerPackageUploader Application for Marcin Juszkiewicz21:28
persiaApologies: it's just after sunrise here.21:28
hrwno problem21:28
hrwI got universe contributor last time21:28
hrwI maintain cross toolchain for armel and armhf architectures21:28
bdrung_hi hrw21:29
hrwarmel is present in Debian and Ubuntu, armhf is on a way to Debian and also may be added into Ubuntu. At Linaro we want armhf to e present in both distributions21:29
persiaI've seen a few complaints about our documentation in the past few days.  Anyone up for trying to dredge through it and submit a new draft?21:29
geserwhat "flavour" of ARM is armhf?21:30
persiaOK.  I'll table that for later.21:30
hrwgeser: armv7, hardfloat21:30
hrwgeser: no neon by default due to tegra221:31
ScottKHow runtime Neon detection working for Qt currently?21:31
hrwScottK: have to admit that I lost track on this - spent most time in toolchain21:32
bdrung_hrw: the packages you request upload rights for doesn't seem to exist21:33
hrwbdrung_: armhf ones are same as armel ones - did not get yet uploaded21:34
hrwbdrung_: the only difference is s/armel/armhf/ in changelog and regenerataion of control file21:34
* persia recommended this list to hrw in OOB discussions, as the other packages were expected to be uploaded fairly soon, and our board isn't so fast.21:34
bdrung_hrw: i fail to find the armel ones, e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.6-armel-cross21:34
hrwbdrung_: 4.6 was not in natty - I have version working with sid and oneiric21:35
hrwbdrung_: let me give git url21:35
geserhrw: are the *-armel-* and *-armhf-* different source packages?21:36
* ScottK would like to recommend hrw for his photography skills as he took the Kubuntu group photo at UDS. ;-)21:36
hrwhttp://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/hrw/cross-toolchain-packaging.git;a=summary is linaro tree21:36
MootBotLINK received:  http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/hrw/cross-toolchain-packaging.git;a=summary is linaro tree21:36
hrwgeser: yes, they are separate but share 100%21:36
geserhrw: isn't it possible to build both from the same source package or is there any reason for the duplication?21:37
hrwgeser: I am in a middle of creating one source for armel/armhf of each component and merging gcc-4.[456]-*-cros into one source or source package21:37
hrwgeser: during uds-n we decided to have cross toolchain source per arch21:37
hrwgeser: as Debian ones would do 11 arch builds and what if 9th fail after 30h of building?21:38
bdrung_build time is a strong argument for separate packages21:38
hrwin Ubuntu we handle 1 arch now (m,n) and now will have 2 (oneiric)21:39
hrwDebian can have more of them.21:39
geserhrw: Debian has 11 arm flavours?21:39
bdrung_hrw: you are talking a lot about debian. will you try to upload the packages into debian first?21:39
hrwgeser: no, but emdebian team wants to replace their semi-auto built packages with mine21:40
hrwbdrung_: once will get all patches landed in Debian yes21:40
hrwbdrung_: merging all required changes into ubuntu took me half of maverick cycle21:40
hrwbdrung_: my source packages works no changes under debian and ubuntu21:41
hrwI have check on 'lsb_release -d' to take care of details21:41
hrwalso handle linaro toolchain backport ppa with same sources but thats a bit other story21:42
bdrung_hrw: do you know dpkg-vendor?21:42
hrwbdrung_: no, but will check it21:42
hrwbdrung_: trick with lsb_release I took from gcc packaging21:42
hrwduring maverick I did cleanup of gcc/binutils packaging which ended in few thousand of lines dropped21:43
bdrung_it's the preferred way to check the vendor (instead of lsb_release). advantage: no additional build dependency21:43
hrwbdrung_: ok, gcc packaging has to work under dapper so maybe thats why21:44
bdrung_hrw: yes, dpkg-vendor isn't that old21:44
* micahg thought dpkg-dev was needed for dpkg-vendor21:45
hrwyep. 2009 according to manpage21:45
hrwmicahg: I already bdepend on dpkg-dev21:45
hrwmicahg: and you are right - dpkg-vendor is dpkg-dev21:45
bdrung_micahg: build-essential depends on dpkg-dev21:46
bdrung_so you get it for free (on compile time)21:46
tumbleweeda versioned dependancy on it may be needed21:47
hrw dpkg-dev (>= is what I need already21:47
hrwdue to components needs (binutils, linux, gcc, eglibc)21:47
persiaSo, while it's interesting to discuss ways of aligning packages between distributions, are there more questions to prepare to vote on hrw's application?21:47
micahgbdrung_: ah, that's what it was, a higher versioned build-dep was necessary :()21:48
hrwdpkg-vendor is 1.15.121:48
hrwand I already need so yes - good thing to switch to21:49
* bdrung_ is ready to vote21:49
* geser too21:49
* stgraber too21:50
persia[VOTE] Approve Marcin Juszkiewicz for PPU upload of armel-cross-toolchain-base gcc-4.4-armel-cross gcc-4.5-armel-cross gcc-defaults-armel-cross and recommend addition of armhf and 4.6 packages as they become available21:50
MootBotPlease vote on:  Approve Marcin Juszkiewicz for PPU upload of armel-cross-toolchain-base gcc-4.4-armel-cross gcc-4.5-armel-cross gcc-defaults-armel-cross and recommend addition of armhf and 4.6 packages as they become available.21:50
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:50
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:50
MootBot+1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:51
MootBot+1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 221:51
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 321:51
MootBot+1 received from bdrung_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 421:51
persia+1 : hrw is definitely the driving force behind these packages, and fixes many other things in his quest to make them better21:51
MootBot+1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 521:51
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 521:51
persiahrw Congratulations21:51
hrwthanks guys21:51
* persia is out of time21:51
hrwnow I will give you a bit of time free from me and in some time will apply for motu21:51
persia[TOPIC] Chair for next meeting21:52
MootBotNew Topic:  Chair for next meeting21:52
* persia claims repeats should be avoided21:52
hrwto not interrupt ubuntu/arm (and others) with debdiffs fixing armel ftfbs'21:52
bdrung_i don't know if i can attend the next meeting. therefore i am not a good candidate for the chair.21:53
stgraberI can do it21:53
persia[AGREED} stgraber will chair the next meeting21:53
MootBotAGREED received: [AGREED} stgraber will chair the next meeting21:53
hrwhave a nice rest of day - 22:53 here and I promised my daughter to read a book before sleep21:53
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:54.21:54
persiaThanks everyone for staying the extra hour.21:54

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