[07:17] <AlanBell> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/23/review_exhibitions_british_library_out_of_this_world/
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: oooh
[08:22] <DJones> Morning all
[08:52] <MooDoo> hello
[08:59] <diplo> Morning all
[08:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Two interesting links for you all this morning:
[08:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://weatherspark.com/#!graphs;a=UK/Farnham
[09:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> And http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/20/watch-a-landslide-ha.html (watch the short video) and listen to Benny Hill music at the same time.
[09:07] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:09] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[09:09] <bigcalm> Morning peeps
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:15] <nigelb> AlanBell: what happened with the monitors eventually? ;) Got 3 of em?
[09:16] <gord> wow, ubuntu asked me for my password 11 times after logging in - thats a new record
[09:16] <bigcalm> Well, it is Monday...
[09:17] <hoover> mornin
[09:17] <hoover> Montag ist Schontag biggie ;-)
[09:17] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:17] <czajkowski> gord: it's making sure you're fully awake
[09:21] <gord> i'll just turn off auto-login, its not achieving what i set out to achieve ;)
[09:21]  * AlanBell suggests gord writes his password on a postit note
[09:25] <wintellect> Anyone here use Kubuntu?
[09:27] <popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[09:27] <bigcalm> Aww
[09:27] <bigcalm> One of the uupc presenters does afaik
[09:27] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: why am I looking at that weather page about farnham?
[09:27] <popey> yes, Mark does
[09:28] <bigcalm> That's the fella :)
[09:28] <bigcalm> Couldn't remember his name
[09:28] <wintellect> What's his channel nick?
[09:29] <popey> marxjohnson
[09:29] <wintellect> thanks popey
[09:29] <czajkowski> wintellect: or ask in #kubuntu
[09:29]  * wintellect slaps himself in the face
[09:29] <wintellect> czajkowski: thanks, stupid of me not to have checked for a #kubuntu first
[09:29] <wintellect> will do that first
[09:30] <czajkowski> wintellect: no worries :)
[09:30] <czajkowski> you'll just find more users there possibly though some may be in here also
[09:30] <czajkowski> tis a bit early
[09:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I liked the interactivity of the map - you can change the location
[09:30] <czajkowski> why is it seeing some peoples names in my inbox makes me wnat to just delete the threads
[09:33] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I get that with client emails
[09:34] <wintellect> On a side note - NetworkManager does dhcp on my wireless card on Ubuntu (unity desktop on an aceraspireone) - how do I configure it to automatically seek a specific access point?
[09:36] <gord> i don't know what my cat is doing.. but it sounds a *lot* like mischief
[09:36] <bigcalm> gord: it's in their mandate
[09:37] <oimon> my dog has a habit of humping her bed when she wants to cause mischief
[09:39] <bigcalm> I had the image of your dog humping your cats bed
[09:39] <bigcalm> Aaaaaaaaaanyway
[09:40] <oimon> where were we ? ahem..ubuntu
[09:41] <oimon> wintellect: off the top of my head, network manager -  edit connections - wireless - add a SSID to connect automatically to
[09:42] <wintellect> oimon: ok, sweet. I'll try that later. Thanks
[09:45] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: ahhh, thought you were pointing out the weather itself ☺
[09:54] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: you going on thursday to digital surrey?
[09:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I am.
[09:54] <popey> Going to try to get there
[10:05] <gord> y'know, we really shouldn't have spell check say that your name is spelt wrong, i mean we have that information available to it
[10:06] <davmor2> morning all
[10:07]  * czajkowski pokes davmor2 
[10:08] <czajkowski> gord: TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!
[10:08] <JonTheNiceGuy> gord++
[10:08] <davmor2> I missed something interesting that gord said didn't I
[10:09] <gord> *everything* i say is interesting
[10:09]  * czajkowski throws gord a bickie 
[10:11] <davmor2> gord: purhaps to you ;)
[10:12] <JonTheNiceGuy> Nothing I say is interesting :(
[10:12] <gord> try yelling it louder
[10:15] <davmor2> gord: Your wrong it needs to be slower and louder for it to be interesting :P
[10:16] <AlanBell> czajkowski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2u_DVkK1Rc
[10:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://twitter.com/#!/TwopTwips/status/72591345604239360
[10:18] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:25] <DJones> Holiday complaints received by a tour operator http://paste.ubuntu.com/611749/
[10:30] <oimon> DJones: number 1 is fair enough
[10:32] <DJones> oimon: :)
[10:32] <DJones> Had to laugh at number 23
[10:32] <oimon> maybe that's why i holiday in england...can't get proper bacon in many other countries
[10:35] <AlanBell> http://lists.ukuug.org/pipermail/announce/2011-May/000191.html tell the government how to use plone/drupal/joomla!
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> Yes, and tell them to keep it updated to the latest version, not just install-and-forget
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> (our sysadmins cry whenever Joomla in installed)
[10:36] <oimon> AlanBell: alpha.gov are using ubuntu and django
[10:37] <AlanBell> yeah, had a chat with one of the alpha.gov team last week
[10:41] <AlanBell> should be talking this week with the cabinet office skunkworks team about setting up a new shapado site which is built with ruby on rails
[10:42]  * Daviey is not a fan of RoR.
[10:44] <AlanBell> I don't have a strong opinion on it
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> Ruby is a bit scary
[10:45] <bigcalm> Never used it myself
[10:46] <MartijnVdS> have they fixed unicode handling yet?
[10:46] <bigcalm> But have found that those who preach about RoR are arrogant
[10:48] <bigcalm> Grrrr. The .otf I converted to .eot still isn't showing in IE
[10:49] <bigcalm> Why why why does IE have to ignore standards?
[10:50] <brobostigon> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host        anyone recognise that error, because i dont.
[10:52] <brobostigon> and inauth.log it simplysays, refused connection.
[10:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: run ssh with a few "-vvvv" - you probably need to remove the relevant line from your "~/.ssh/known_hosts" file
[10:54] <brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, thank you.
[10:54] <AlanBell> or fail2ban got you
[10:57] <popey> Daviey: https://github.com/danielfm/pyruby
[10:57] <popey> ""From now on you should be able to write Ruby code within a regular Python module"
[10:58] <popey> https://github.com/danielfm/pyruby/blob/master/src/ruby.py
[10:58] <BigRedS> why would you want to do that?
[10:59] <BigRedS> ahhh
[10:59] <BigRedS> hah
[10:59] <popey> ☺
[10:59] <brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/611757/
[10:59] <popey> brobostigon: thats not -vvvv
[11:00] <brobostigon> popey: ok, how do i pipe the output into a text file, so tht i can pastebin the entire output, please.
[11:01] <brobostigon> or pipe it, directly into pastebinit.
[11:01] <AlanBell> ssh -vvvv user@host 2>&1 |pastebinit
[11:01] <brobostigon> thank you AlanBell
[11:03] <brobostigon> 10:01:26 < AlanBell> ssh -vvvv user@host 2>&1 |pastebinit
[11:03] <brobostigon> balls.
[11:03] <brobostigon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/611760/
[11:03] <brobostigon> there we go.
[11:07] <AlanBell> I think you have been blocked by fail2ban or the other one
[11:07] <BigRedS> denyhosts
[11:08] <brobostigon> AlanBell: let me look in hosts.deny
[11:09] <BigRedS> iptables -nL | grep <ip address>
[11:09] <BigRedS> will tell you if fail2ban caught it
[11:09] <BigRedS> (more accurately, it'll tell you if it's in iptables, but that's where fail2ban puts it)
[11:09] <brobostigon> i dont have fail2ban, i have denyhosts
[11:10] <AlanBell> brobostigon: can you get in though?
[11:10] <brobostigon> AlanBell: via my ipv6 tunnel, yes.
[11:14] <Daviey> fail2ban doesn't give that ssh error, as you cannot conenct at all.
[11:14] <Daviey> That looks like a hosts.deny entry, therefore Denyhosts.
[11:15] <brobostigon> i am just looking through deny.hosts to find my ipv4 addr.
[11:15] <brobostigon> hosts.deny*
[11:15] <bigcalm> Nice
[11:19] <AlanBell> brobostigon: I wouldn't bother to remove it (it will just come back at some point) add yourself to hosts.allow
[11:19] <brobostigon> yes, my ipv4addr is/was in hosts.deny
[11:19] <brobostigon> AlanBell: goodthinking, yes.
[11:23] <brobostigon> done, thank you everyone.
[11:27] <Twinkletoes> I get a black screen when trying to install 11.04, I have to plug an external monitor in just to be able to see anything.  It's a laptop with a Radeon HD6650 card in it.  Is there anything I can do to fix this please?
[11:32] <gord> BT are tempting me with 40mbit downstream >:(
[11:34] <popey> 3 people from 217. addresses in a short period.
[11:34] <popey> what are the chances
[11:34] <popey> I guess BT or someone uses 217 then ☺
[11:35] <AlanBell> Twinkletoes: is that when booting from the live CD or when it is installed?
[11:35] <DJones> popey: ISP/Organisation COLT Technology Services Group LImited
[11:35] <jpds> popey: Well, IPv6 is going to confuse you.
[11:35] <Daviey> popey, ewwwww!
[11:36] <popey> ☺
[11:36] <popey> A common reaction Daviey
[11:36] <DJones> Another one shows up as Zen internet
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> "Lots of people from 2001:: addresses"
[11:37] <jpds> 2001? I live in 2011.
[11:37] <Daviey> MartijnVdS, I get more connections from fe80:: addresses :)
[11:37] <Twinkletoes> AlanBell: Booting from the LiveCD/USB
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> Daviey: yay link local
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> Daviey: fe80::, the 169.254. of ipv6 :)
[11:38] <Daviey> heh
[11:39] <Twinkletoes> AlanBell: I've tried other distros too, and they complain about modesetting, if that's any help ("KMS:drm report modesetting isn't supported").  According to this article, Karmic had an update to fix it, but this is 11.04 so presumably includes that fix aswell (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/410058)
[11:42] <shauno> was trying to explain 2000::/3 to someone earlier.  v6 prefixes are fun :)
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> shauno: v6 is fun :)
[11:44]  * brobostigon  has hostnames for each ipv6 he has, so he doesnt need to remember ipv6 addr's.
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> I use avahi for that
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> it registers hostnames for all my v6 addresses at home
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> or how-ever it works :)
[11:45] <shauno> well, yeah.  memorizing addresses never was a fun idea.  but understanding the difference between 2* and f* is handy
[11:45] <brobostigon> i didnt know that,
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ff00::!
[11:46] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i will look into that.
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: works by default on Ubuntu
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ping short_hostname_you_specified_during_installation
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> or ing6
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> ping6
[11:47] <shauno> I have to specify .local at home.  works a treat tho
[11:47] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: there only 2 ubuntu machines, 2 windows, one with haiku, and several other linux baseddevices.
[11:47] <shauno> 'ssh herlaptop.local' "just works (tm)"
[11:47] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i get it now, :)
[11:47] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can install Bonjour (apple's implementation) on the Windows machine (part of itunes)
[11:47] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: those windows machines are my dads work machines.
[11:48] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: anyways, my router, nicely shares out ipv6 addr's. so hopefully those machines are picking up addr's aswell.
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Win Vista and 7 automatically work, yes
[11:49] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: eeek, my dads work still uses xp.
[11:49] <shauno> you can still make that work if you really want to.  you can set avahi up to answer for another machine
[11:49] <AlanBell> Twinkletoes: you might have more luck with the alternate CD, or even installing 10.10 and upgrading to 11.04 (I had to do that on a machine that got confused by grub on CD)
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: v6 on XP is b0rken
[11:49] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, i will discount those machines from the equation then.
[11:49] <Twinkletoes> AlanBell: I'll give that a go, thank :)
[11:52] <shauno> you can set hosts in /etc/avahi/hosts, so it'll publish them on behalf of other machines that aren't able to.  can be handy
[11:53] <brobostigon> shauno: however for those to refer properly, those machines still need to be able to pickup ipv6 addr's properly.
[11:53] <shauno> or have static v4 addresses
[11:54] <brobostigon> yes.
[11:54] <shauno> not that you're likely to be addressing his work machines often - just nice to know you can kludge around 'legacy' devices fairly tidily
[11:55] <brobostigon> yes.
[12:01] <bigcalm> Grrr
[12:02] <bigcalm> Well, router didn't die but the modem connection did
[12:02]  * bigcalm shakes fist at VM
[12:09] <bigcalm> Any reason why &ellipsis; might be showing &ellipsis; and no ... ?
[12:09] <bigcalm> s/no/not
[12:13] <gord> when you start running out of lion king characters to give to your devices as hostnames. you have too many devices....
[12:13] <dutchie> bigcalm: sure it's &ellipsis; and not &amp;ellipsis;?
[12:13] <dutchie> also, i'd just use unicode
[12:26] <kazade> Twinkletoes, you could try asking questions in #radeon they can probably help
[12:31] <bigcalm> dutchie: very sure, I typed it myself :) I ended up using ... because I'm lazy
[12:38] <bigcalm> Horay for MoonPig reminding me that it's my fiancee's birthday on Saturday \o/
[12:39] <bigcalm> Should get around to wrapping some presents
[12:40] <DJones> bigcalm: So if it wasn't for MoonPig, would it be an ex-fiance?
[12:41] <oimon> mooooooooonpig dot com
[12:42] <bigcalm> DJones: I'm not noted for my memory. We were at my parents yesterday and I was talking about us coming back next Saturday. I turned to my fiancee to check that we weren't doing anything on that day
[12:43] <oimon> shared calendars on smartphones are good for that
[12:43] <oimon> we rarely double book stuff now
[12:44] <bigcalm> It's more the fact that I should have remembered that is was her birthday on Saturday
[12:44] <oimon> she should have been dropping hints about pressies for 3 months now
[12:45] <Pendulum> oimon: he has all the pressies for her
[12:45] <bigcalm> :)
[12:45] <bigcalm> I'm a good boy like that
[12:46] <bigcalm> I really hope she takes the stampler to work with her and uses it there
[12:46] <bigcalm> Seems unlikely, but one can dream :)
[12:47] <gord> anyone know any way of  getting policy-kit to work with a fingerprint reader?
[12:49] <davmor2> gord: no but if you want to login there's an app for that :D
[12:49] <gord> davmor2, oh really? an app?
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> a napp
[12:50] <davmor2> gord: yeap plugs into gdm I'll track it's name down for you if you haven't got it
[12:51] <gord> davmor2, i found it, its useless :(
[12:51] <davmor2> :(
[12:51] <gord> because it logs in without a password, gnome-keyring doesn't unlock
[12:51] <gord> so guess what happens...
[12:51] <davmor2> type in a password
[12:51] <gord> i'd rather type a password in once than have to use a fingerprint reader then type in a password eight thousand times
[12:52] <gord> #jadedbypolicykitandgnomekeyring
[12:52] <BigRedS> I've never understood the idea of using fingerprint readers for auth on PCs
[12:52] <davmor2> gord: there is a modification that Ubuntu added that enabled keyring login from autologin maybe you could track that down
[12:53] <gord> davmor2, when was this? certainly not the case as of now
[12:53] <AlanBell> gord: I guess it would make sense to unlock the screensaver
[12:53] <davmor2> gord: I know it was in hardy and lucid for oem support
[12:55] <czajkowski> http://www.lionheartrecruitment.com/
[12:55] <czajkowski> look at that
[12:56] <gord> its a vicious cycle, they can't hire anyone to fix their site because their site is broken
[12:59] <DJones> czajkowski: Is that the one that wouldn't accept your .doc files?
[12:59] <czajkowski> DJones: no that's just another muppet site I've found
[13:00] <czajkowski> I swear if some sites could just be tested! a little bit
[13:00] <czajkowski> would save job seekers hair loss!
[13:30] <gord> so... new laptop. need to get my u1 stuff on it, chances of me just copying the files over working?
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> gord: worked for me
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> gord: make sure you kill u1sdtool before you copy
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> then restart when copy is don
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> e
[13:33] <oimon> isn't the idea that u1 will fill the folder up for you?
[13:34] <gord> i have several tens of gb of data :)
[13:34] <gord> i don't reeeeally want to spend the next few weeks just syncing u1
[13:34] <oimon> so it's you that's slowing it down for everyone else :)
[13:36] <davmor2> gord: you can copy paste and then let u1 sync it should read everything like it's a back up but annoy Aq till he tells you for sure though
[13:36] <gord> i basically spend all day in #u1 annoying people with questions ;)
[13:40] <davmor2> gord: no just Aq he'll soon point you at the right person to get you to leave him alone :D
[14:02] <BigRedS> Does (should) network manager default to using wired networks where they're available?
[14:02] <BigRedS> I can't find any config one way or the other in nm-applet
[14:05] <gord> BigRedS, how do you mean default?
[14:07] <davmor2> BigRedS: yes it does from my experience
[14:11] <DaveMorris> I'm using the shared connection option in network manger on Lucid to enable a machine to act as a gateway.  It works fine, and is running a DHCP server to assign IPs to those behind the gateway.  Does anyone know where the config file is for this DHCP so I can change the range it offers out since I want to have fixed IPs without any clashing.
[14:14] <BigRedS> gord: as in, without needing to be configured to do that
[14:14] <gord> BigRedS, configured to do what? :) do you want connections to go over ethernet before wifi?
[14:14] <BigRedS> yeah
[14:14] <gord> ah - yeah it'll do that
[14:14] <BigRedS> if I boot up and a remembered wifi network is available, and there's a good network in eth0, will it bring up eth0, wlan0, or both?
[14:15] <gord> both
[14:15] <BigRedS> ahh, but default route is eth0?
[14:15] <gord> should be
[14:15] <BigRedS> and do you know if that's configurable anywhere?
[14:15] <gord> it might be a case of first come first served, your ethernet is gonna come up before wifi
[14:15] <BigRedS> ah yeah
[14:22] <Azelphur> hahaha, sony got hacked again
[14:22] <Azelphur> That's 6 times in a row now?
[14:23] <Azelphur> this time it's sony music greece, complete with leaked user database
[14:23] <gord> i think tbh they have just become a target now
[14:23] <Azelphur> indeed
[14:23] <BigRedS> in a row? Can break ins be non-consecutive?
[14:23] <BigRedS> :)
[14:23] <Azelphur> BigRedS: I call in a row all over the past month or so?
[14:24] <DaveMorris> we just don't hear about all the failed attempts
[14:24] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:25] <DJones> Probably don't hear about all the sucessful attempts either
[14:25] <Azelphur> indeed xD
[14:25] <popey> http://hassonybeenhackedagain.com/
[14:25] <popey> should exist
[14:25] <popey> and just say "YES"
[14:25] <Azelphur> popey: I'm up for that. :D
[14:26] <Azelphur> although my webserver isn't bomb proof atm so maybe not such a good idea :p
[14:27] <Azelphur> popey: that's interesting, if you put that URL into chrome, it offers you a google search for "has sony been hacked again". It figured out where the words are from a url with no spaces :)
[14:28] <gord> laptop says 9:45 remaining :)
[14:29] <oimon> http://havethebuttonsmovedbackyet.com/
[14:30] <oimon> just had a flashback
[14:34] <oimon> isn't google chromium supposed to have something like firefox awesome bar? doesn't always find the url in my history :(
[14:35] <gord> its not as awesome
[14:42] <oimon> gord: i'm discovering that's the case
[14:42] <dogmatic69> google chrome / chromium :)
[14:44] <oimon> i shouldn't feel this exhuasted on a monday :(
[14:46] <davmor2> oimon: could be worse, could be sunday still
[14:48] <oimon> i did 7 hours flat out yesterday ,sound engineering a live event, now today i'm at work ...hmm
[14:51] <oimon> woo the brand new puppet book just landed on my desk
[14:52] <DJones> oimon: Sound engineering? setting up or running a sound system or all of it
[14:53] <oimon> DJones: the whole shebang. i was part of a team - we setup our own gear in 5 screens of the local cineworld mulitplex for a few hours of simultaneous broadcast and mixing .
[14:54] <oimon> you can do stuff with technology now that wasn't possible a few years ago.
[14:54] <oimon> since we use the cinema digital projectors and run audio over cat5 to slave devices
[14:54] <DJones> Sounds  big job
[14:55] <oimon> yeah, do it every other sunday so it's getting easier, but this sunday was a biggun
[14:55] <DJones> what is the broadcast for
[14:57] <oimon> djones: annual international day - video clip here http://jubileechurchlondon.org/events/international-day/
[14:59] <DJones> Heh, reminds me of springharvest
[14:59] <oimon> have u been?
[14:59] <DJones> Yeah, about the last 7 years
[14:59] <DJones> pm if you want
[15:31] <Azelphur> popey: lol, aircondirect seriously tried to screw me over xD
[15:33] <Azelphur> I ordered for next day on thursday and it didn't arrive for 2 days, phoned them up and they said it would be here on monday, After arguing with them over the fact that I had actually placed an order, then arguing over whether they should be allowed to deliver an item next week that was paid for as next day, they finally agree'd to give me a refund
[15:33] <Azelphur> apparently "refund" means deliver the item on monday anyway and give me £5 \o/
[15:33] <Azelphur> I refused the delivery, though. Not letting them get away that easy \o/
[15:36] <shauno> I wish places would let you decide what day you want it to arrive on, rather than whatever approximates next day, etc
[15:38] <Azelphur> hehe
[15:38] <Azelphur> shauno: their site actually said "Delivery for: Tomorrow" and charged me an extra £15 for the privilege XD
[15:38] <oimon> just spent 30 minutes processing cashback claims totally £500 for some hp printers...talk about a palaver
[15:41] <davmor2> popey: "http://hassonybeenhackedagain.com/" == True /n wait sony=="bankrupt"  /n "http://hassonybeenhackedagain.com/" == False or code to that effect :)
[15:42] <oimon> does PSN require credit card details?
[15:42] <davmor2> oimon: nope only buying stuff from them does
[15:42] <shauno> I just get annoyed when I only have one day off work, so I'm trying to time the purchase precisely to get it to arrive while I'm home :/
[15:43] <gord> oimon, davmor2 even then, you can buy cards instead from shops/online. thats what i do
[15:43] <oimon> PS3 hardware seems to have longer life than Xbox
[15:43] <shauno> waiting to get something atm .. have to get it thursday afternoon for it to arrive monday  lol
[15:44] <davmor2> gord: makes sense, I just buy games second hand when they are cheap as I only really like adventure rpg style games that can be played forever and a day in single player mode :D
[15:44] <oimon> shauno: maybe invent a secure dropbox and go on dragons den
[15:44] <shauno> too early on thursday, it'll arrive friday.  too late thursday, it'll ship friday & arrive tuesday :(
[15:45] <gord> davmor2, so - not expecting to see you much once the new elder scrolls game comes out? ;)
[15:46] <davmor2> gord: I got the first one a couple of months ago for a £5 :)
[15:46] <gord> davmor2, the first one? the old old dos one?
[15:47] <davmor2> gord: that was available on PS3
[15:47] <gord> davmor2, ah, the *forth* one ;)
[15:48] <davmor2> gord: yeah that's the one :)
[15:48] <reaper4334> the first one's pretty hard to play these days, but the second is pretty good with Dosbox
[15:48] <davmor2> gord: yet to play it still trooping through Dragon Age
[15:51] <reaper4334> Dragon Age any good?
[15:51] <davmor2> reaper4334: Dragon Age is great fun
[15:52] <reaper4334> davmor2: is it a long game?
[15:54] <davmor2> reaper4334: kept me going for a while and I'm yet to complete it, there are a load of sub-missions to make it longer I've only completed about 50% of those so there is another game in it just to complete those as well as downloadable content
[15:55] <davmor2> reaper4334: by a while I had it for xmas and I'm still playing it, and spend 2-3+ hours at the weekend on it
[15:55] <reaper4334> davmor2: sounds pretty good :D I might have to buy it soon
[15:56] <davmor2> reaper4334: Dragon Age 2 is out now too which is meant to be bigger still
[15:56] <gord> davmor2, no its way smaller
[15:56] <reaper4334> davmor2: I played the demo of the second one, but it seemed more of a hack 'n' slash than an RPG
[15:56] <gord> its one city, an outside area and a mine
[15:57] <davmor2> gord: It's meant to be bigger
[15:58] <gord> whoever told you that is a liar, a filthy liar ;)
[15:58] <davmor2> gord: they could mean gameplay wise
[15:58] <gord> gameplay wise its way smaller, i beat it in a week of playing a bit in the evenings
[16:03] <davmor2> gord: that's disappointing
[16:04] <gord> davmor2, well they took less than a year to make it... i mean, yeah. its disappointing
[16:04] <davmor2> gord: so I'll get it when it's in the bargain bin then :)
[16:05] <gord> davmor2, sure, for what its worth, for what little content there is, its pretty good :)
[16:05] <davmor2> gord: haha
[16:08] <oimon> there's no sadder face than the face of someone coming to the help desk with a broken hard drive..and no backs
[16:08] <oimon> s/backs/backups
[16:32] <davmor2> gord: can you test something for me please, in unity setup mumble with F12 as the press to speak button, have a few chats and see if the launch remain in sight permanently for the rest of the session
[16:32] <davmor2> launcher even
[16:32] <oimon> has anyone used a site called goodreads.com? it's like a facebook for bookreaders
[16:35] <gord> davmor2, i'm not quite sure what you mean
[16:36] <davmor2> gord: normal behaviour is for app launcher to autohide correct?
[16:36] <DJones> oimon: INteresting site, I do a lot of reading, could be quite useful for me
[16:36] <gord> davmor2, sure, but what does f12 have to do with that?
[16:37] <davmor2> gord: So on mumble I have press to talk set with the F12 button.  After every team call the launcher nolonger hides  I can only assume this is down to pressing F12 repeatedly
[16:38] <gord> davmor2, at what point does the launcher stop hiding?
[16:39] <davmor2> gord: It's out while I have mumble open when I minimise mumble it just stays in place
[16:40] <gord> davmor2, why would it move when you minimise mumble? are you using dodge active window?
[16:42] <davmor2> gord: I'm using whatever the default is.  but all the windows behind mumble are maximised and the launcher remains in place.
[16:43] <gord> davmor2, the default is to dodge windows, which means if any window gets in the way of the launcher it should hide :) i don't think your jamming on f12 has anything to do with it
[16:43] <davmor2> gord: pre mumble usage it moves in and out
[16:43] <gord> its just stuck for some other reason
[16:44] <davmor2> gord: would a vid capture help?  I can get one tomorrow possibly
[16:44] <gord> davmor2, its a long standing bug - i don't know a huge amount about it tbh
[16:44] <gord> check on launchpad, see if others have it too
[16:46] <davmor2> gord will do just wondered if there was a simple fix that didn't kill half the system :D
[17:10] <czajkowski> something to make everyone smile at this hour of the day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCbnxX7VEuU
[17:17] <Twinkletoes> AlanBell: If you can remember my qyuestion about the blank screen when booting from the 11.04 desktop USB?  Well, 10.10 is absolutely fine... except that it doesn't recognise my wireless NIC :(
[17:18] <davmor2> czajkowski: you have too much time on your hands
[17:18] <czajkowski> davmor2: it was meant to make people happy at this hour of the day
[17:18] <davmor2> czajkowski: haha it worked :)
[17:20] <gord> i haven't watched uk tv in a long time... is that comedy now? i don't get it :(
[17:20] <gord> then again i never understood all that Catherine Tate stuff either, everyone loved that =\
[17:21] <popey> I really don't like her either
[17:21] <Azelphur> popey: 1.6ghash and counting :)
[17:21] <DJones> I've only seen her in Dr Who and I wasn't impressed with her in that
[17:21] <davmor2> gord: bring back the porridge days hey :)
[17:21] <Azelphur> 217w/node :p
[17:22] <Azelphur> shop forgot to ship me my switch so I'm running at <50% atm
[17:24] <czajkowski> DJones: noooo she was fantastic as DONNA NOBLE!
[17:25] <gord> shouting is not the same as acting =\
[17:25]  * czajkowski revokes gords bickies 
[17:25] <DJones> gord +1
[17:26] <MartijnVdS> gord: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LargeHam
[17:26] <gord> i am not falling in to your trap dear sir.
[17:26] <gord> for those that click on tvtropes links, never do return
[17:31] <shauno> noble felt like it only worked because they wrote the role around her
[17:32] <AlanBell> dead chicken :(
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: :( natural causes?
[17:32] <AlanBell> yeah, goldie was pretty old, sat down all day and didn't get up
[17:33] <gord> :(
[17:33] <davmor2> gord: no but it does get you understood
[17:33] <davmor2> AlanBell: Bummer sorry about that.
[17:34] <davmor2> AlanBell: how have the other chickens taken it?
[17:34] <AlanBell> they were a bit flustered when I took her away
[17:37] <davmor2> AlanBell: same thing happened with our bird when the other died, give it a couple of weeks they should be right as reign again
[17:41] <Azelphur> in Ubuntu is /tmp in ram?
[17:41] <Azelphur> or is there anything that is in ram I can use?
[17:42] <BigRedS> /dev/shm should be
[17:43] <popey> Azelphur: type "mount"
[17:44] <Azelphur> ty, that's the one :P
[17:57] <gord> bluetooth and suspend work on the new laptop... this... this has never happened to me before
[17:58] <davmor2> gord: don't worry I'm sure you'll figure out a way to break it
[18:02] <Psychobudgie> I think I'm reaching my 'really p*ssed off' threshold with ubuntu and that is something I thought I'd never say
[18:07] <BigRedS> Psychobudgie: all software has fantastic ability to be annoying
[18:08] <BigRedS> the trick isn't finding one that doesn't annoy you, but the one that's least annoying
[18:09] <Psychobudgie> not to the point ubuntu is annoying me at the moment
[18:09] <Psychobudgie> it's approaching vista levels of annoying
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> which bits?
[18:10] <Psychobudgie> Banshee, dbus, unity, compiz instability
[18:10] <Psychobudgie> I can think of more
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> dbus is unstable?
[18:10] <Psychobudgie> it is here
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> I haven't had the other programs in that list crash on me either since release
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> you must be doing something wrong -- Nvidia drievrs?
[18:11] <Psychobudgie> no I'm not doing anything wrong
[18:11] <Psychobudgie> though the suggestion made me happy
[18:11] <Psychobudgie> heh
[18:12] <Psychobudgie> I've only been using Linux on the desktop since 98 so I'm a bit of a noob
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> yeah, 13 years is way too short ;)
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: do your problems occur in a clean default install as well (or on the live cd)
[18:13] <Psychobudgie> clean default install
[18:13] <Psychobudgie> installed yesterday to ensure I'm not going mad
[18:13] <Twinkletoes> How do I edit grub.cfg to make the default boot, Windows?  grub.cfg says "Do not edit this file", and I can't see any setting in /etc/default/grub to change the default
[18:13] <Psychobudgie> same problems
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: have you tried running memtest overnight?
[18:13] <Psychobudgie> it's not me
[18:14] <Psychobudgie> it's it
[18:14] <gord> if dbus is crashing, you have bigger problems
[18:14] <Psychobudgie> it that shall not be named
[18:14] <BigRedS> Twinkletoes: you need to fight with the mess that is /etc/grub.d
[18:14] <Twinkletoes> BigRedS: Grrr....
[18:14] <BigRedS> Twinkletoes: welcome to progress :)
[18:15]  * BigRedS notes that grub-legacy isn't in the repos in natty :(
[18:16] <Twinkletoes> Did they really have to make it so confusing?
[18:16] <Psychobudgie> checked with maverick yesterday before reinstalling natty
[18:16] <Psychobudgie> in maverick all is good and lovely
[18:16] <Psychobudgie> in natty all is bad and not awesome
[18:16] <Psychobudgie> I can pretty much render natty useless by plugging in my samsung t10
[18:17] <kaushal> Hi
[18:18] <kaushal> Finally I am on Dell Vostro 3500 running Ubuntu 11.04 :)
[18:19] <Psychobudgie> the device mounts fine, nautilus opens it thenthe awfulness that appears to be Banshee tries to talk to the device, maxing out dbus then it crashes dragging down the nautilus window which launched it which in turn vanishes leaving a blank overlay on the screen which can't be closed without killing compiz
[18:19] <Psychobudgie> and so on
[18:19] <Psychobudgie> it's comical
[18:23] <Twinkletoes> BigRedS: StartupManager did the trick ;)
[18:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Yall better show up now - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/05/23/yall-better-show-up-now/
[18:28] <kaushal> Hi
[18:28] <kaushal> Can someone please guide me about configuring MS Exchange Calendar 2007 in lightning running on Thunderbird 3.1.10 in Ubuntu 11.04 ?
[18:38] <advancedbraindam> hi its first time for me and not sure that is it
[18:38] <advancedbraindam> is there anyone i can talk to?
[18:38] <advancedbraindam> have one question to ask
[18:38] <kaushal> advancedbraindam: shoot
[18:39] <advancedbraindam> cool
[18:39] <advancedbraindam> is there still a support and upgrades for ubuntu 10.10 as for couple of days have not been recieving any updates
[18:39] <advancedbraindam> ??
[18:40] <kaushal> yes it is
[18:40] <brobostigon> !10.10
[18:40] <brobostigon> eeek.
[18:40] <advancedbraindam> so why i am unable to download any
[18:40] <advancedbraindam> ?
[18:41] <kaushal> advancedbraindam: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[18:41] <kaushal> advancedbraindam: Please pastebin the sources.list
[18:41] <advancedbraindam> how do i do that?
[18:42] <kaushal> cat /etc/apt/sources.list
[18:42] <brobostigon> sudo pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list
[18:43] <kaushal> and copy it and paste it using pastebin service
[18:44] <kaushal> More details https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pastebin
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> # deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 10.10 _Maverick Meerkat_ - Release i386 (20101007)]/ maverick main restricted
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> # See http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes for how to upgrade to
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> # newer versions of the distribution.
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick main restricted
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick main restricted
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> ## Major bug fix updates produced after the final release of the
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> ## distribution.
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates main restricted
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates main restricted
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> ## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> ## team. Also, please note that software in universe WILL NOT receive any
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> ## review or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
[18:44] <brobostigon> eeekkk
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick universe
[18:44] <mgdm> advancedbraindam: don't paste things in here
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick universe
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates universe
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates universe
[18:44] <advancedbraindam> ## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## team, and may not be under a free licence. Please satisfy yourself as to
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## your rights to use the software. Also, please note that software in
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## multiverse WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## security team.
[18:45] <Laney> haha
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick multiverse
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick multiverse
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates multiverse
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-updates multiverse
[18:45] <brobostigon> eeekkk
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from the 'backports'
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## repository.
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## N.B. software from this repository may not have been tested as
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## extensively as that contained in the main release, although it includes
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## newer versions of some applications which may provide useful features.
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## Also, please note that software in backports WILL NOT receive any review
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
[18:45]  * mgdm hands around the lifebelts
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> # deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> # deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from Canonical's
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## 'partner' repository.
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is offered by Canonical and the
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## respective vendors as a service to Ubuntu users.
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner
[18:45] <brobostigon> ohdear.
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is offered by third-party
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> ## developers who want to ship their latest software.
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick main
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick main
[18:45] <advancedbraindam> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security main restricted
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security main restricted
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security universe
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security universe
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security multiverse
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu maverick-security multiverse
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> deb-src http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu maverick partner
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> not sure is that the way you wanted me to do it
[18:46] <Laney> no
[18:46] <mgdm> It's not :)
[18:46] <brobostigon> oh my.
[18:46] <Myrtti> fail
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> just read the first line on wiki
[18:46]  * brobostigon switches off.
[18:46] <advancedbraindam> my apologize
[18:47] <kaushal> advancedbraindam: stop it please
[18:47] <kaushal> you are flooding the channel
[18:47] <kaushal> advancedbraindam: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pastebin
[18:47] <advancedbraindam> im sorry my experience its not as good as i wish to be
[18:48] <kaushal> advancedbraindam: please read wiki
[18:48] <hamitron> ours isn't now ;)
[18:48] <advancedbraindam> im electrician
[18:48] <brobostigon> hence i suggested pastebinit.
[18:48] <kaushal> as its self explanatory
[18:48] <brobostigon> argggh.
[18:48] <advancedbraindam> cool i will have a look
[18:48] <mgdm> advancedbraindam: it's cool. Don't worry. easiest thing is that pastebin gadget on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pastebin, like kaushal says
[18:49] <advancedbraindam> i kicked windows os in january and switched to ubuntu
[18:49] <mgdm> advancedbraindam: just for future reference :)
[18:52] <advancedbraindam> pastebin s cool
[18:52] <advancedbraindam> http://pastebin.com/uLq85zMW
[18:52] <advancedbraindam> here is my post
[18:55] <Psychobudgie> problem solved
[18:56] <Psychobudgie> 'apt-get remove banshee' 'apt-get install rhythmbox'
[18:56] <Psychobudgie> :D
[18:56] <Psychobudgie> dbus doesn't go nuts now
[18:57] <skybinary> hiya, i have been going nuts with compiz since i upgraded to 11.04 i have no desktop items nor can i right-click there
[18:57] <skybinary> i am almost sure i turned something off in compiz
[19:01] <advancedbraindam> so what you think
[19:02] <advancedbraindam> what could be a reason for not getting any downloads?
[19:02] <advancedbraindam> as in upgrades
[19:04] <advancedbraindam> ??
[19:10] <AlanBell> some more tickets have been released, and they are going fast http://oggcamp11.eventbrite.com
[19:20] <skybinary> is it weird that my nautilus home folder pops up after login instead of my desktop and icons?
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> slightly
[19:22] <BigRedS> firefox 4 is "html5-compliant" isn't it?
[19:23] <mgdm> err, well
[19:23] <mgdm> that's a rather complex question :-) HTML5 is a catchall for a bunch of technologies
[19:23] <BigRedS> yeah, I know it's not a spec yet
[19:23] <mgdm> so it depends largely on what bit you want, but yeah,m for the most part
[19:23] <BigRedS> vimeo's just told me to come back with an "html5-compliant browser" and I wondered why
[19:24] <mgdm> it's maybe that FF doesn't speak whatever codec they're trying to deliver to you
[19:24] <BigRedS> ahh yeah. I'm not interested in the video that much, I just wondered if I was wrong in thinking that ff4 did html5
[19:24] <skybinary> do you thing
[19:24] <skybinary> lol typo
[19:25] <skybinary> do you think resetting gnome by using rm -rf .gnome gnome2 .gconfd .metacity would help my icons reappear?
[19:26] <BigRedS> seems rather brute force
[19:26] <skybinary> oh lol
[19:26] <BigRedS> you're quite likely to just break gnome
[19:26] <BigRedS> it's rather fragile and bad at telling you what's going on these days
[19:26] <skybinary> i think unity broke me
[19:26] <BigRedS> you think unity's bad? you should try gnome3
[19:27] <skybinary> it is hard to tell, looks purty but
[19:27] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, I managed to work out why Banshee is  breaking everything. Essentially as soon as an MTP device is plugged in, ubuntu mounts the device then asks you what you wish to do. Once the device is mounted by the OS, Banshee cannot interface via mtp and instead of giving an error message (rhythmbox gives an error), it bugs out and hangs the application which in turn appears to cause the dbus interface to max out the cpu causing all sorts
[19:27] <Psychobudgie> of fun.
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: sounds like bug filing time
[19:27] <Psychobudgie> yup
[19:27] <BigRedS> aha, that sounds like at least two bugs
[19:28] <Psychobudgie> three as if the initial nautilus window asking to what do is still open when it dies, it kills the window but leaves the process running which in turn causes compiz to leave a blank overlay where the window should be
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> shotwell copes better with this
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> I plug in my camera, then open shotwell, which asks if I want to unmount it so shotwell can use i t
[19:29] <Psychobudgie> if you then click on an application and the link or button is beneath the overlay you have to move the window to get to the thing you want to click on
[19:29] <Psychobudgie> it's like dominoes
[19:30] <skybinary> besides right-clicking desktop how else can i change my theme?
[19:30] <BigRedS> which DE are you using?
[19:30] <BigRedS> unity, gnome2, gnome3?
[19:30] <skybinary> gnome 2.32.1 but it said that when i was in unity
[19:31] <BigRedS> said what?
[19:31] <skybinary> i looked at system monitor to discover that
[19:31] <BigRedS> but it's in <system> off the main panel, <preferences><appearence>
[19:32] <skybinary> background is the first option there, no appearance
[19:33] <BigRedS> oooh
[19:34] <BigRedS> sounds like something's a bit broken then
[19:34]  * skybinary sighs
[19:35] <skybinary> i tried gnome3 too for a bit, seems simple
[19:36] <BigRedS> I couldn't get my head round the workspaces
[19:37] <Psychobudgie> workspaces are one of the big improvements in gnome 3 for me
[19:37] <BigRedS> really? How do you keep track of where things are?
[19:37] <Psychobudgie> like the idea of dynamically adding and removing them as and when required
[19:37] <BigRedS> I disliked the way workspace four kept becoming workspace 3 just because I emptied workspace 2
[19:38] <jacobw> evening
[19:38] <Psychobudgie> I actually prefer that
[19:38] <BigRedS> really?
[19:38] <Psychobudgie> hate wasted areas
[19:38] <BigRedS> Well, I'm glad it works for someone :)
[19:38] <jacobw> its not good for muscle memory
[19:39] <Psychobudgie> if I need 3 desktops I want 3 desktops, I don't want 4
[19:39] <BigRedS> But then when you're going for something you left on ws4, you need to check by 2 and 3 first, in case it's collapsed them for you
[19:39] <jacobw> wasted space on virtual desktops :s
[19:39] <Psychobudgie> If I want 5 I don't want to have to hit the settings to add one
[19:39] <jacobw> there's a logic in that somewhere
[19:39] <BigRedS> The easy addition I do like
[19:39] <BigRedS> well, it doesn't annoy me :)
[19:40] <Psychobudgie> BigRedS, I didn't look but I would put money on being able to fix the desktops via settings
[19:40] <BigRedS> Psychobudgie: yeah, I found a way claiming to
[19:40] <Psychobudgie> Gnome-desktop is not unity, it's not locked down
[19:40] <BigRedS> which broke gnome :(
[19:41] <BigRedS> and then I got annoyed with it, and noted that gnome 3 doesn't fix any of the issues I have with gnome 2
[19:41] <BigRedS> so I might as well stick with the devil I know
[19:41] <Psychobudgie> BigRedS, where you running from the gnome ppa?
[19:41] <BigRedS> yeah, on 11.04
[19:41] <Psychobudgie> the only issue I had with it was to do with samba
[19:42] <Psychobudgie> for whatever reason, samba just would not work correctly with gnome 3 running
[19:43] <BigRedS> hmm
[19:43] <BigRedS> bit of an odd conflict
[19:43] <Psychobudgie> yup
[19:43] <skybinary> if i install gnome colour chooser from the software centre, will i be able to change my theme then, dya think?
[19:43] <Psychobudgie> but a known issue apparantly
[19:44] <Psychobudgie> they had workarounds but to be honest it was more trouble than it's worth
[19:44] <BigRedS> what was the cause?
[19:44] <Psychobudgie> I can see me going back to kde if gnome and unity doesn't sort themselves out
[19:45] <BigRedS> I find KDE way more annoying than unity
[19:45] <Psychobudgie> it's to do with filesharing handling within gnome-desktop. It basically, in a nutshell, doesn't work properly
[19:45] <BigRedS> I've been trying several DEs recently. The least annoying, at about equals, are Gnome2 and Unity
[19:45] <BigRedS> ahhh, so it is gnome3's interaction with samba, rather than some random conflict
[19:45] <Psychobudgie> yeah
[19:47] <Psychobudgie> if it was me in charge of ubuntu, I would have moved to docky
[19:47] <Psychobudgie> heh
[19:47]  * Psychobudgie <3 Docky
[19:47] <gord> its not like we have the main docky developer making the unity launcher or anything
[19:47] <gord> and the guy who started AWN running the whole thing
[19:48] <gord> that would be craaaazy
[19:48] <skybinary> the software centre history is a bit of a life saver
[19:48] <Psychobudgie> I don't care if jesus himself was involved, it's awful
[19:48] <BigRedS> is it? which bit's teh launcher?
[19:48] <BigRedS> the buttons on the left?
[19:48] <Psychobudgie> yup
[19:49] <Psychobudgie> thats them
[19:49] <BigRedS> what's wrong with that? Seems fine to me
[19:49] <Psychobudgie> it looks awful for a start
[19:49] <Psychobudgie> oh and I didn't even get to the ........Global Menu
[19:50] <BigRedS> yeah, I've not used the menu yet
[19:50] <jacobw> have you tried kde BigRedS ?
[19:50] <BigRedS> yeah
[19:50] <Psychobudgie> who ever suggested that at the developer meeting should be bagged, tagged and shipped to whatever OS we currently hate
[19:50] <BigRedS> it's great, but every time I login I need to reconfigure something
[19:51] <BigRedS> and it's got all these widgets that seem to exist only to get in the way
[19:51] <Psychobudgie> my main problem with unity is that unless I know exactly what I want to do everything takes longer to do
[19:51] <Psychobudgie> it's intuitive in the way that cheese isn't
[19:52] <BigRedS> mmm, I've not had much need for menus since noticing alt+f2
[19:52] <Psychobudgie> I want to browse for an app, right click, click, click, click
[19:52] <jacobw> last time i tried it, i got far too fustrated with the file copying mechanism not working properly
[19:52] <BigRedS> which is handy, 'cause they're always painful to use
[19:52] <Psychobudgie> on gnome, click, click
[19:52] <BigRedS> jacobw: yeah, and the single-click-open keeps getting me
[19:53] <Psychobudgie> oh and it looks like the graphic designer was recruited from my local primary school
[19:53] <Psychobudgie> for the partially sighted
[19:53] <Psychobudgie> and colour blind
[19:54] <Psychobudgie> apart from that it's awesome
[19:54] <jacobw> i think the design of kde is often better.. but it just doesn't work when you need it to
[19:54] <BigRedS> it doesn't work when I don't need it to, either :)
[19:55] <Psychobudgie> kde has it's issues, but I always think they kept on the right track with the workflow
[19:55] <BigRedS> nah, KDE feels horribly horribly over-designed to me. Like someone set out to make the most 'modern' looking DE possible, and kept redoing it until everything was transparent or gradiented, with curved edges and fade-outs and all the rest of that crap
[19:55] <BigRedS> it's sort-of usable, but it's butt-ugly and forgetful
[19:56] <Psychobudgie> BigRedS, what like Gnome 3?
[19:56] <jacobw> kontact is definately better than evolution, for example.
[19:56] <jacobw> evolution is just so slow :|
[19:56] <Psychobudgie> yup
[19:56] <Psychobudgie> I'd agree with that
[19:57] <BigRedS> Psychobudgie: gnome 3's more subtle in design, just more crazy in process
[19:57] <Psychobudgie> always like kontact
[19:57] <Psychobudgie> I always seem to run in to font issues whenever I venture into kde with ubuntu
[19:58] <Psychobudgie> no idea why
[19:58] <Psychobudgie> and I don't mean nice, aww, I can fix that quite easily, issues
[19:59] <Psychobudgie> I mean, omg, wtf has happened to my screen, is my monitor broke, has my graphics card gimped out
[20:00] <BigRedS> haha
[20:00] <BigRedS> I've never had those
[20:00] <BigRedS> I do have exceedingly low aesthetic expectations though
[20:00] <Psychobudgie> heheh
[20:00] <Psychobudgie> no wonder you like unity
[20:00] <Psychobudgie> :P
[20:00] <jacobw> i don't really car for aesthitics
[20:01] <BigRedS> Psychobudgie: I don't *like* it, I just have nothing much against it
[20:01] <BigRedS> :)
[20:01] <Psychobudgie> you tolerate it
[20:01] <BigRedS> mm, I think it's complete indifference
[20:01] <gord> quite a lot of people love the visuals of unity
[20:01] <BigRedS> the bits I use are exactly gnome2
[20:01] <Psychobudgie> I tried so hard to tolerate it but I found I got a much better experience from classic gnome and docky
[20:02] <BigRedS> alt+f2, ctrl+alt+arrow keys
[20:02] <Psychobudgie> unity looks great on a notebook
[20:02] <BigRedS> I don't think anyone does menus 'well', but it's nice to see people bothering to try
[20:02] <Psychobudgie> on my desktop however it looks like a notebook frontend on a desktop
[20:03] <Psychobudgie> the only thing it's missing is a big button on the desktop that says 'the internet'
[20:04] <mrwarmth> I preferred unity to classic gnome but it just runs too slowly on my pc, I changed to dwm and love it
[20:04] <gord> pretty sure thats called "firefox"
[20:04] <AlanBell> I think the concept of unity is OK
[20:04] <gord> we can rename it if you like
[20:04] <AlanBell> the application lense doesn't make much sense to me
[20:05] <gord> in general?
[20:05] <gord> i mean, i like launching applications
[20:05] <BigRedS> oh yeah, I heard about those
[20:05] <AlanBell> in that it isn't structured by category
[20:05] <BigRedS> i didn't actually find out what it is
[20:05] <AlanBell> I only found out yesterday (having used it for 8 months) that there is a category dropdown in the top right
[20:06] <gord> ah - i get you - yeah that bit sucks, we know :)
[20:06] <BigRedS> can things exist in two categories yet?
[20:06] <Psychobudgie> AlanBell, you'll remember it's there though
[20:06] <AlanBell> it seems to try awefuly hard to sell me stuff to download
[20:06] <Psychobudgie> AlanBell, as it's colour scheme is out of sync with everything else
[20:06] <gord> things have always been able to exist in more than one category, part of the desktop file spec
[20:06] <AlanBell> and doesn't actually spend enough time showing me where the stuff I have is
[20:07] <AlanBell> "installed" vs "available to download" isn't the top level split I want to see
[20:07] <Psychobudgie> AlanBell, the cynic in me says that it will be selling us stuff for money in years to come
[20:07] <AlanBell> and there is too much "click here to see the rest of the stuff you wanted to see in the first place"
[20:08] <Psychobudgie> AlanBell, agree completely with that
[20:08] <AlanBell> Psychobudgie: there are paid apps already, I am totally cool with that
[20:08] <Psychobudgie> AlanBell, not got a problem with that, I get the feeling however that the 'available to download' is going to be for that purpose
[20:09] <Psychobudgie> think itunes
[20:09] <AlanBell> throughout 10.10 I learned to have a terminal open and launch stuff from the command line because I couldn't find it in the unity menu
[20:09] <AlanBell> I now do super+type stuff until it finds it, so that is an improvement a bit
[20:09] <gord> i lik ethe available for download stuff, i'v honestly used it quite a lot
[20:10] <AlanBell> but I struggle to find stuff without typing the command line
[20:10] <gord> why can't you just type in the search box what you would type in the command line?
[20:10] <Psychobudgie> I personally don't see what is so wrong with a drop down/ pop up menu
[20:10] <Psychobudgie> if it aint broke don't invent something that is
[20:10] <AlanBell> I don't mind that it offers stuff for download, but that should be secondary to stuff I already have
[20:11] <gord> it is?
[20:11] <gord> how do you mean secondary?
[20:12] <AlanBell> so it should start with big friendly buttons for the categories (like software centre does)
[20:12] <Azelphur> http://superuser.com/questions/287560/i-deleted-files-from-my-linux-boxs-boot-directory-and-now-it-wont-boot epic fail...
[20:12] <AlanBell> then show me *all* the stuff in that category I have
[20:12] <AlanBell> and click here to see cool apps in this category available to download
[20:13] <Psychobudgie> wouldn't you rather see maybe 5 things you have and 5 things you don't?
[20:13] <AlanBell> no
[20:13] <Psychobudgie> heh
[20:13] <Psychobudgie> when I typed that I felt more stupid doing so
[20:13] <gord> ah you mean when you are poking your way through?
[20:13] <gord> rather than searching
[20:13] <AlanBell> yes
[20:13] <AlanBell> like a normal person would :)
[20:13] <Psychobudgie> people should do that more often, type something out and if it makes you feel stupid the idea is awful
[20:15] <AlanBell> it also means that you can't transition from the gnome menus
[20:17] <AlanBell> if it used to be applications-graphics-gimp it could easily have mapped to click the applications lens, click the graphics category, click the gimp
[20:17] <AlanBell> rather than click the lens, see random stuff, click more on the installed applications, stare at hundreds of unsorted icons looking for wilber
[20:18] <BigRedS> oh, so these categories aren't the ones from the gnome menu?
[20:18] <AlanBell> or for the clueful click the applications lens use the ugly grey menu to find graphics, wonder why it isn't there, end up installing something else from the software centre that looks neat
[20:18] <gord> they are
[20:19] <AlanBell> the categories by default are frequently used applications, installed applications and stuff to download
[20:19] <BigRedS> Oh
[20:19] <AlanBell> (from memory, I have broken my compiz right now)
[20:20] <BigRedS> I thought of "graphics" and "internet" and "office" as categories
[20:20] <AlanBell> me too, you don't see them
[20:20] <AlanBell> they are hidden in a dropdown menu that doesn't look like a dropdown menu
[20:20] <BigRedS> and it's long puzzled me that, say, evolution's in office but not internet. or vice versa, whichever it is
[20:20] <BigRedS> haha
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> it's also the crashiest piece of software in the default install
[20:21] <BigRedS> well, yeah
[20:21] <hamitron> unity is good for all of us....
[20:21] <hamitron> ;)
[20:21] <BigRedS> evolution's always been shipped by default and used by nobody
[20:22] <gord> i use evolution
[20:22] <hamitron> if we make it so nobody else switches to the OS, nobody will bother trying to exploit it with virus, so it makes us safe
[20:22] <gord> most people i know use evolution
[20:22] <BigRedS> really?
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> gord: are they made to?
[20:22] <Psychobudgie> In order to make unity usable for me I have to uninstall scrollbar overlays and global menus
[20:22] <gord> evolution is fine
[20:22] <BigRedS> don't you ever find that there's better things to be doing than arguing with a jumped up mail client, though?
[20:23] <Psychobudgie> evolution is good, far better than thunderbird
[20:23] <BigRedS> actually, that said, there's a guy at work who uses evolution
[20:23] <BigRedS> it does seem to work these days
[20:23] <Psychobudgie> works well here
[20:23]  * hamitron is having problems with seamonkey atm
[20:23] <BigRedS> maybe it's just gained such a horrible reputation that most people wont touch it just based on past experience
[20:23] <gord> evolution got imap+ support in the maverick cycle, made it 20x better
[20:24] <gord> hum. i enabled a feature on my laptop, makes the laptop suspend when the camera can't detect any faces. that was very very annoying
[20:24] <BigRedS> haha
[20:25] <Psychobudgie> lo
[20:25] <Psychobudgie> l
[20:27] <gord> it also has something called "airbag protection" - which as far as i can tell is designed to detect shocks to stop the hard-drive getting hurt. seems like if your detecting a shock you are already too late
[20:28] <BigRedS> yeah, that works on the grounds that large shocks are preceeded by smaller ones IIRC
[20:28] <AlanBell> there are some that detect zero G and assume they are falling and park the heads before they land
[20:28] <gord> ahh that would make sense
[20:29] <AlanBell> I had a thinkpad which did not successfully do that
[20:29] <Psychobudgie> not necessarily, used to run tandon packs back in  the 80's which had HD's wrapped in what could best be described as shock absorbers. You could drop one of those things off a third story window onto concrete
[20:29] <gord> i'll just get an SSD sometime, not now. because i like spending money on food, but in the future
[20:29] <AlanBell> apparently the coffee table was too low
[20:29] <gord> noted: if i'm gonna drop this thinkpad. drop it out of a 4 story building
[20:29] <Psychobudgie> 3 story
[20:29] <Psychobudgie> I won't guarantee for 4
[20:34] <ali1234> the thinkpad accelerometer doesn't work in linux unless you install a special bit of software
[20:34] <ali1234> actually same goes for windows but it comes preinstalled
[20:42] <jacobw> tht's pretty clever stuff
[21:07] <popey> evening all
[21:07] <bigcalm> Howdy popey
[21:08] <bigcalm> I need to suggest some plugin sharing services to a client. So far on my list are sharethis.com and addthis.com. Anybody have any other suggestions?
[21:12] <jacobw> cool tech stuff on bbc2 now
[21:16]  * AlanBell returns from farnborough with another 17 inch monitor
[21:16] <dwatkins> I bought a CRT-based machine at the weekend
[21:16] <popey> hehe
[21:16] <popey> farnborough!?
[21:16]  * popey checks all his monitors are still intact
[21:16] <gord> the monitor thief strikes again!
[21:17] <AlanBell> any monitor thief coming round to my house had better bring a transit
[21:17] <gord> they are at least LCD's right? would hate to think your being cluttered up with CRTs
[21:18] <dwatkins> I don't mind a bit of clutter if it's an old iMac.
[21:18] <dwatkins> anyhoo, off ot get keys, toodleoo
[21:23] <AlanBell> gord: LCDs, I bid on three on ebay in the hope that I would get one
[21:30] <daubers> Evening
[21:32] <mgdm> 'lo
[21:34] <jacobw> o/
[21:36] <daubers> List is bust these past few days
[21:36] <daubers> s/bust/busy
[21:40] <jacobw> as long as it doesn't need a bailout :p
[22:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Team Plans For Oneiric - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/23/community-team-plans-for-oneiric/
[22:40] <Azelphur> just secured a $1.50/CPM advertising deal for my game servers :D
[22:40] <Azelphur> profitable game servers are now profitable
[22:43] <bigcalm> CPM?
[22:43] <Azelphur> bigcalm: thousand hits
[22:43] <bigcalm> I see
[22:43] <bigcalm> Views or clicks?
[22:43] <Azelphur> views
[22:43] <bigcalm> Sweet
[22:43] <Azelphur> indeed :D
[22:43] <Azelphur> they came to me too, emailed me and asked politely for advertising space haha
[22:44] <Azelphur> I get 150-200k hits a month, so it's decent
[23:35] <ujjain> is compliment not a british word?
[23:37] <bigcalm> ujjain: it is
[23:37] <ujjain> bigcalm: ah k
[23:38] <dogmatic69_> o/
[23:39] <dogmatic69_> could anyone tell me what (if any) is an advantage of running my OS on a RAID
[23:39] <dogmatic69_> eg 2x (or 4x) 32gig SSD's
[23:40] <AlanBell> dogmatic69_: there are different types of RAID
[23:40] <dogmatic69_> and also different drives for ~/ vs one big one for everything
[23:40] <dogmatic69_> ye
[23:40] <dogmatic69_> RAID5 would be 4x
[23:40] <dogmatic69_> or RAID1? for 2x
[23:41] <dogmatic69_> i know the basics like RAID5 gives me 3x smallest drive and one can die
[23:41] <AlanBell> 2 disks you can do mirroring (sensible), or striping (dangerous performance hack)
[23:42] <AlanBell> raid5 is a decent option if you have enough disks (preferably matched disks)
[23:42] <dogmatic69_> i would be looking to get a bit faster, im thinking with a RAID this is true
[23:42] <AlanBell> it can be a fraction faster, but with a bit of processor overhead
[23:43] <dogmatic69_> ah ok
[23:43] <dogmatic69_> so the main (only) advantage is the thing not randomly ding
[23:43] <dogmatic69_> *dying
[23:44] <dogmatic69_> does ubuntu do one of them fancy custom RAID setups?
[23:45] <dogmatic69_> been playing with one of these and it seems pretty good compared to normal raid http://www.synology.com/us/products/features/RAID.php
[23:57] <BigRedS> istr md's not in the livecd
[23:57] <BigRedS> so you need to apt-get it, then you can install to raid
[23:57] <BigRedS> (sw raid)