[14:55] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[14:55] <davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
[14:56] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting today at 19:00 UTC in #xubuntu-devel. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[15:03] <pleia2> charlie-tca: I'll be on a plane at that time, my only update is that we can't use the canonical staging site to stage the theme so we're going to need to run our own and go from there until the theme is complete
[15:03] <pleia2> I'll talk to knome and we might get something up this week to start writing our new theme
[15:09] <charlie-tca> Okay, thanks
[15:23] <ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
[15:23] <charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
[15:24] <ochosi> as a follow-up on the discussion of whether to include something for touchpads in xubuntu by default i wanted to refer to this thread: http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2011-May/028865.html
[15:24] <ochosi> seems like this feature is planned upstream
[15:24] <ochosi> so maybe it isn't worth digging around for something else
[15:25] <pleia2> oh! I also filed some bugs against the site (and fixed some), I encourage others to review and do the same: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
[15:25] <charlie-tca> Great! Xfce developers are really on top of most stuff
[15:25] <ochosi> charlie-tca: they're already discussing the UI, so i assume that it could be part of 11.10 even if xfce 4.10 isn't released by the time
[15:26] <ochosi> at least iirc they now plan to do more individual releases of the components
[15:26] <ochosi> oh, and also i have to apologize, i won't be able to make the meeting tonight
[15:26] <charlie-tca> Okay, any plans for oneiric need to get discussed quickly
[15:28] <charlie-tca> We are looking at a short cycle this time, compared to Natty
[16:13] <knome> pleia2, absolutely
[19:25] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 35minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:35] <charlie-tca> cody-somerville: any chance this is complete now?  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/xubuntu-karmic-doc-packaging
[19:55] <micahg> charlie-tca: meeting in here?
[19:56] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:56] <charlie-tca> In 4 minutes
[19:59]  * charlie-tca waves at the crowd
[20:00] <charlie-tca> Let's welcome everyone to the Xubuntu Community Meeting 
[20:00] <micahg> wow, login screen in oneiric is funky ATM
[20:00] <charlie-tca> For those who can not be here, there will be minutes and logs
[20:00] <charlie-tca> I haven't upgraded yet
[20:00]  * micahg just upgraded his spare laptop
[20:01] <charlie-tca> We don't have a meeting bot, so I will copy the logs after the meeting
[20:02] <charlie-tca> A full meeting agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[20:04] <drc> charlie-tca: "The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request."
[20:04] <charlie-tca> reload the page
[20:04] <charlie-tca> it is a common wiki error
[20:04] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Old business - all 
[20:05] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - email the ML with proposed meeting days and times, Mon, Thurs, Fri only for days 
[20:05] <charlie-tca> This was done, Monday was chosen as the best day for most of us. As for times, they are harder to pin down
[20:06] <charlie-tca> 19:00 UTC seems to be a good time, but there are conflicts in #ubuntu-meeting at that time. 
[20:06] <charlie-tca> I can attempt to get a meeting bot in here, which would nicely resolve the issue
[20:06] <charlie-tca> Any questions or comments on the new meeting time?
[20:07] <charlie-tca> Hopefully, we will make more progress on Marketing during this cycle.
[20:08] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates - Team Leads 
[20:09] <charlie-tca> This is the time to decide what w
[20:09] <charlie-tca> we are doing for Oneiric. 
[20:09] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any updates?
[20:10] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: will we see Xfce 4.8.2 for Oneiric?
[20:11] <charlie-tca> Website: We are going to move to wordpress from Drupal
[20:12] <xrdodrx> am I on time
[20:12] <xrdodrx> for the meeting described @ https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-May/007787.html
[20:12] <charlie-tca> We will be setting up a test site, either through knome or pleia2 own setups, since Canonical staging site is only them to see if our site is okay
[20:12] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: yes, on time
[20:13] <mr_pouit> no updates, sorry
[20:13] <charlie-tca> Np
[20:13] <charlie-tca> no problem
[20:14] <mr_pouit> yeah, newer upstream releases will be synced
[20:14] <charlie-tca> That will be great! 
[20:14]  * micahg got midori 0.3.6 into oneiric
[20:14] <charlie-tca> Artwork this cycle will be mainly improving greybird and the wallpaper 
[20:14] <charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg 
[20:15] <mr_pouit> micahg: and parole :p
[20:15] <micahg> mr_pouit: yep, didn't know anyone cared about it though (weirdly enough, it's still a recommends for xubuntu-desktop and in the default install)
[20:15] <charlie-tca> We have an Oneiric Goals page, which we should try to keep updated
[20:16] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Oneiric
[20:16] <charlie-tca> Our artwork team will also be working from http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:greybird, which has several goals they would like to get in for Oneiric
[20:17] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: are we looking at both gtk2 and gtk3 for this cycle?
[20:18] <charlie-tca> Announcements - 
[20:18] <mr_pouit> no, the focus is still on gtk+2
[20:18] <charlie-tca> We have alpha1 coming at us fast. The tentative calendar/schedule for Oneiric is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[20:18] <mr_pouit> (upstream for 4.10 at least)
[20:19] <charlie-tca> Great. I do know Ubuntu will be moving some stuff to gtk3, since they will be adding gnome3 to the repositories
[20:20] <micahg> mr_pouit: won't we need GTK3 for apport and related GNOME stuff?
[20:20] <charlie-tca> Alpha1 release is due on June 2. It would be nice to see some of 4.8.2 in there if possible, but we need to at least have an alpha1 release
[20:20] <charlie-tca> We will also need testers for each milestone, so if you can, let me know as soon as possible.
[20:21] <charlie-tca> I hope to split the roadmap out more, and will have specific things that have to happen. We would like to have people volunteer to do those items.
[20:22] <charlie-tca> We have pleia2 and knome working the website, We need someone that can go through the wiki documentation and update it.
[20:22] <Soupermanito> charlie-tca, testing can be done using virtualboxes? im fairly new to all this, sorry if its a silly question
[20:23] <xrdodrx> Soupermanito, it's best to test on real hardware, just set up a dedicated partiton for xubuntu test releases/nightlies I'd say
[20:23] <charlie-tca> Soupermanito: yes, for us testing works in VirtualBox
[20:23] <xrdodrx> or not :D
[20:24] <micahg> Soupermanito: testdrive is also a good way (which can use virtualbox or qemu on the backend)
[20:24] <mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, unfortunately, and I think it'll be a mess
[20:24] <charlie-tca> Heh. 
[20:24] <micahg> mr_pouit: no doubt
[20:24] <mr_pouit> because afaik, gtk3 needs its own theme, and won't use the gtk2 murrine based one
[20:25] <micahg> mr_pouit: right
[20:25] <charlie-tca> I am thinking right now that if there is a way, we are looking at putting Xfce 4.10 into 12.04, which is the LTS. 
[20:25] <charlie-tca> If that is a true statement, we need Oneiric to be as stable as we can get it.
[20:26] <charlie-tca> Soupermanito: can we count on you for testing then, at least the milestones in the schedule?
[20:26] <micahg> charlie-tca: what does it matter?  oneiric won't have 4.10
[20:26] <xrdodrx> since xfce is based on gtk, are there any plans to add unity (2D?) to xubuntu for oneiric? I thought unity was to "unify" officially-supported ubuntu-based distros?
[20:26] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: there will not be any plans to add unity to Xubuntu 
[20:26] <xrdodrx> that's good to hear :)
[20:26] <Soupermanito> charlie-tca, yes i think you can, i will need some kind of testing protocol or something but yes
[20:26] <charlie-tca> We are not Ubuntu, we are a separate distribution
[20:27] <mr_pouit> we (try to) stay close to upstream
[20:27] <charlie-tca> I will give whatever help is needed for testing
[20:27] <charlie-tca> Unity was designed to unify all the Ubuntu distributions, meaning desktop, mobile, netbook, etc
[20:27] <beardygnome> i'm happy to test the milestones as well
[20:28] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: great! putting you both down. We do test starting the tuesday before the milestone
[20:28] <charlie-tca> and testing is run 24 hours, so you can do it in your own timez
[20:28] <charlie-tca> timezones
[20:29] <beardygnome> how much time should i allow?
[20:29] <charlie-tca> as much as you can. Images are subject to instant rebuild, and then will be tested completely again.
[20:29] <charlie-tca> for natty final, I think I burned about 48 cd's, between ubuntu and Xubuntu
[20:30] <charlie-tca> and I only got two for each one when it was released
[20:30] <beardygnome> when's the first milestone?
[20:30] <xrdodrx> beardygnome, 2 june
[20:30] <charlie-tca> June 2
[20:30] <beardygnome> i just moved house so don't have internet there yet
[20:31] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
[20:31] <charlie-tca> Okay, we will try to keep you informed
[20:32] <charlie-tca> Any questions on what we discussed?
[20:32] <charlie-tca> Any Other Business - all/anyone 
[20:32] <charlie-tca> Meeting times and dates, I think is settled. 
[20:33] <beardygnome> can i get a link to the testing procedures?
[20:33] <drc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
[20:33] <charlie-tca> I will try to schedule them for here and #ubuntu-meeting both, perhaps using this three times a month and #ubuntu-meeting once a month
[20:34] <charlie-tca> I would like to hold weekly meetings, since it does seem to keep all of us informed about what is happening.
[20:34] <charlie-tca> Before I forget, Ubuntu did agree to use LightDM to replace GDM
[20:34] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we will also, right?
[20:35] <charlie-tca> The lightdm developer is devoting all of his time to make it work, and iron out any issues
[20:36] <charlie-tca> Anyone have anything they would like to bring up?
[20:36] <charlie-tca> going...
[20:36] <beardygnome> o/
[20:36] <charlie-tca> go ahead, beardygnome 
[20:37] <beardygnome> just a big congratulations to everyone for natty :-)
[20:37] <charlie-tca> I would add mine and a huge thank you also to that!
[20:37] <beardygnome> it's working really well for me
[20:37] <beardygnome> and i'm loving the new networking features
[20:38] <beardygnome> (though that's down to xfce, not us)
[20:38] <charlie-tca> I seem to have an issue yet with the screensaver locking things up, but I really like natty
[20:38] <micahg> charlie-tca: gltext?
[20:38] <beardygnome> anyone else had the panel restart on them?
[20:38] <charlie-tca> all the gl... ones
[20:38] <micahg> charlie-tca: was fixed with 5.13, might be worth an SRU if we can find the commit
[20:39] <beardygnome> (sorry, i'm derailing this, i'll take it to the ml)
[20:39] <jozefk> yes panel restarts coz of screensaver but not a big deal
[20:39] <charlie-tca> If I dig for it, you will help me get it done?
[20:39] <micahg> charlie-tca: sure
[20:39] <micahg> charlie-tca: idk if the source repo for xscreensaver is available
[20:39] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yep, if ubuntu throws gdm away, we'll follow :p
[20:39] <charlie-tca> ACTION:  Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU
[20:40] <charlie-tca> It's happening, mr_pouit 
[20:40] <micahg> mr_pouit: I think it's for alpha1, I"ll check quick
[20:40] <xrdodrx> I've used ubuntu since 6.06 (gnome), but switched to xubuntu 4 days ago, and I've only experienced minor bugs, I really hope we follow with ubuntu and switch to lightdm
[20:40] <charlie-tca> I just don't know if it will be alpha1 or 2
[20:41] <micahg> mr_pouit: it's supposed to be happening for alpha1
[20:41] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: we will go to lightdm. We tried really hard last cycle, but things just didn't work out
[20:41] <xrdodrx> I'd say Canonical helped you guys Grow the Xubuntu Community, lol, a lot of people I know that use ubuntu switched to xubuntu and in fact convinced me too
[20:41] <charlie-tca> Any thing else we need to discuss?
[20:42] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: sounds like screensaver related panel issues too?
[20:42] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: i don't have xscreensaver
[20:42] <charlie-tca> hm
[20:42] <charlie-tca> that matters, too
[20:43] <charlie-tca> I haven't had any panel restarts here
[20:43] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, I don't know if this is the right place for this or not but is thunar being slow on initial start a gnome bug?
[20:43] <xrdodrx> :s/gnome/xubuntu
[20:43] <charlie-tca> thunar slow in initial start is not gnome
[20:43] <beardygnome> it happens when i move windows from one workspace to another using the switcher applet
[20:43] <charlie-tca> it is Xfce, caused by the networking changes
[20:43] <mr_pouit> xrdodrx: something related to gvfs, but that's still unclear
[20:43] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: make sure gvfs is running
[20:43]  * charlie-tca too slow again
[20:44] <mr_pouit> there's an upstream bug for that, I think it's Xfce #7373
[20:44] <charlie-tca> xfce bug 7373
[20:44] <micahg> well, natty was the first major bump for xfce since jaunty, and I think it went a lot smoother
[20:44] <mr_pouit> ubottu: awesomely useless :)
[20:44] <charlie-tca> well! that ain't it
[20:44] <micahg> xfce 7373
[20:45] <mr_pouit> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7373
[20:45] <charlie-tca> That's it
[20:45] <xrdodrx> Alright, thanks for making such a good distro, I plan on sticking with it for as long if not longer than I used Ubuntu :)
[20:46] <charlie-tca> We try hard
[20:46] <charlie-tca> sometimes more successful than other times
[20:46] <jozefk> yeah it's seems xubuntu is the way to go :)
[20:46] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: did you file a bug for the panel thing?
[20:47] <charlie-tca> You probably should, using ubuntu-bug xfce4-panel, and attach ~/.xsession-errors and /var/log/syslog
[20:48] <charlie-tca> Thank all of you for participating in this meeting! 
[20:48] <charlie-tca> It is good to see new people not afraid to show up
[20:48] <charlie-tca> Let's go ahead and end the meeting and go back to work
[20:50] <charlie-tca> and by the way, next meeting is Monday May 31, 19:00 UTC, #xubuntu-devel (same place)
[20:50] <charlie-tca> I may be sorry for that, as it is an American Holiday, but we will see...
[20:50] <micahg> charlie-tca: working on memorial day? ;)
[20:51] <charlie-tca> Lot's of these people don't have memorial day, do they?
[20:51] <micahg> charlie-tca: should be fine
[20:52] <charlie-tca> That's my thought, although if there is a race on, I will be disappointed
[20:53]  * xrdodrx marks calendar :)
[20:55] <micahg> mr_pouit: I don't want to step on your toes, would it help you if I request syncs for stuff you update in Debian?
[20:56] <micahg> relating to Xubuntu specifically
[21:08] <Soupermanito> sorry to be late to the discussion, but yesterday i installed 11.04 on my sister's laptop, and besides her computer being absolutely no linux friendly, thunar taked a hellalot of time to start and if i tried to open a ntfs drive it will take longer and then will open a 'warning could not mount' or something like that and after i close that it would open the window whit the proper ntfs folder i was trying to open
[21:09] <scott-work> charlie-tca:  is xubuntu moving to wordpress on your own hosting or are you using canonical hosting?
[21:09] <charlie-tca> Soupermanito: that is part of that bug. I know Xfce is working on that issue, but it might take a bit for fix.
[21:09] <charlie-tca> scott-work: canonical
[21:10] <charlie-tca> We finally got a staging site set up by rt, but they won't let us use it
[21:11] <pleia2> yeah, we need to stage our theme elsewhere and then send it to them to review
[21:11] <scott-work> charlie-tca:  i'm having trouble getting rt to give others access to the website to even update for releases
[21:11] <charlie-tca> They seem to be very hard to work with
[21:12] <charlie-tca> You can not decide who gets access in it?
[21:13] <Soupermanito> charlie-tca, i know i might be the only one here, so it doesnt really matters, but if you can set the next community meetings not on mondays it will allow me to participate more, again, just me, but mondays and thursdays are the only days i have to go to the university, where is where i should be going right now
[21:13] <Soupermanito> :) good luck to you all people
[21:13] <pleia2> scott-work: I can give others access
[21:13] <charlie-tca> Will give some more thought, Soupermanito 
[21:13] <pleia2> (er, to xubuntu site anyway)
[21:14] <pleia2> they gave us admin in drupal so we can add users
[21:14] <Soupermanito> :) thank you charlie-tca have a nice day
[21:14] <charlie-tca> no problem
[21:15] <xrdodrx> I agree with Soup|away weekends would be better for me too, but of course it's up to the real devs :)
[21:17] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: any weekday that will work? I really don't want to tie up my own weekends
[21:17] <xrdodrx> ChanServ, tuesday
[21:18] <charlie-tca> Maybe alternating weeks, Monday and Tuesday, would work. Let me examine things
[21:18] <xrdodrx> okay :D
[21:19] <charlie-tca> I will send that to the ML, and see what we can do
[21:19] <charlie-tca> I would really like to see Xubuntu grow, and to do that, we might have to change things here and there
[21:21] <charlie-tca> scott-work: Got to be a way to get RT to give you admin for others?
[21:21] <scott-work> charlie-tca: pleia2: i am only aware of one person who has access to the website and he is not involved except twice a year to change the release news on the website, but he's usually late by two to three weeks
[21:21] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, if my friends are any indication interest is definitely on the rise :)
[21:21] <charlie-tca> That person should be the one that can add you to the access list
[21:22] <scott-work> charlie-tca: he states that i need to get my own
[21:22] <scott-work> i have asked for it and they sent it to me but used an old gpg key (which was my fault) but have asked for it to be sent again after i removed all the old gpg keys from launchpad
[21:22] <scott-work> and that was three or four months ago now
[21:22] <charlie-tca> scott-work: really? I will rattle some things and see whether or not I can shake it up then.
[21:23] <scott-work> asked for it = asked for acces with rt
[21:23] <charlie-tca> scott-work: of course, that may mean nothing. I haven't been able to get the staging site working for us
[21:23] <scott-work> charlie-tca: lol, but thank you very much though :)
[21:23] <charlie-tca> scott-work: I think they just put a lot of things off, really
[21:27] <scott-work> charlie-tca: i imagine they get a lot of requests, some trivial, some not so trivial
[21:29] <charlie-tca> You are kinder than me
[21:29] <charlie-tca> but probably more correct, too
[21:34] <drc> charlie-tca: I assume (yes, I know) that when the A1 milestone is reached that http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ will be active for 11.10 nightly build?
[21:34] <charlie-tca> yes
[21:34] <charlie-tca> hopefully both daily and daily-live will be active then
[21:35] <drc> ah...there is a difference....
[21:36] <charlie-tca> daily-live is the desktop/live cd, daily is the alternate text installer
[21:40] <drc> OK, I'm in...I have an extra 10 gig I can partition off for testing.
[21:41] <charlie-tca> Grerat!
[21:41] <charlie-tca> well, great! too
[21:42] <charlie-tca> We will not see images until alpha1, normally
[21:42] <drc> Which do you need more, an "nightly update" testing or a "night install" testing
[21:43] <charlie-tca> install will fail more often for us, update fails more often because of something Ubuntu did
[21:43] <drc> OK...install it is
[21:43] <charlie-tca> I will upgrade to Oneiric on my production machine for alpha1, which lets me test the upgrade.
[21:44] <charlie-tca> I will then be using Oneiric until the next cycle
[21:44] <drc> I am assuming that a LiveUSB install will work (I can't afford to burn a new dvd every night)
[21:44] <charlie-tca> We hope so
[21:44] <drc> We'll test that too, then
[21:44] <charlie-tca> I usually go through over 100 cd-r's per cycle
[21:45] <charlie-tca> oops, 200
[21:45] <pleia2> grub2 supports booting from isos, I've had very good luck installing grub2 on a usb stick and using the pristine isos
[21:45] <charlie-tca> I start each cycle with 200 here, and usually have to buy more
[21:45] <pleia2> no converting to usb stick
[21:46] <charlie-tca> older hardware, doesn't support usb boots
[21:46] <pleia2> yeah, you do have to have a machine can boot from usb (or a floppy drive to make it do so)
[21:47] <pleia2> we use the floppy disk trick for some machines at a school that won't pxe boot, but there are a lot of systems which are too new for floppy drives and too old for usb sticks
[21:48] <drc> Here's my hardware specs:  http://pastebin.com/fb8087Uq
[21:49] <drc> og, I forgot to tae out the Intel video (I have the nvidia)
[21:49] <charlie-tca> Great system for testing
[21:49] <drc> no I didn't...I forgot to take out the <or> :(
[21:50] <charlie-tca> Can you add yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Testers
[21:51] <charlie-tca> I will have to update it for natty, I see.
[21:51] <drc> This was one of the first system that Dell pre-installed Ubuntu on...if X/Ubuntu won't work on this ststem something is wrong/changed.
[21:51] <charlie-tca> Very slight differences, but I have seen some of those that won't work well with the devel releases
[21:52] <drc> Well, we'll know that too, then :)
[21:52] <charlie-tca> yup
[21:55] <drc> charlie-tca: Request submitted
[21:56] <charlie-tca> thanks