| rick_h__ | ok, funny: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igeneration/video-obamas-beast-car-gets-stuck-on-ramp-in-dublin/10204 | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| snap-l | rick_h__: Yeah, those cars are heavy as hell | 00:25 |
| snap-l | they had to make special arrangements to park over at Hope College when George Senior came to speak | 00:26 |
| jrwren | anyone ever use xmlrpc cmdline? http://xmlrpc-c.sourceforge.net/doc/#xmlrpc | 02:19 |
| snap-l | Good morning | 14:12 |
| rick_h__ | morning | 14:13 |
| snap-l | I was thinking of upgrading to Natty today, but with the machine revolt I have on my hands, that doesn't seem prudent. | 14:14 |
| greg-g | snap-l: I think I'd wait a day or two if I were you :) | 14:16 |
| rick_h__ | revolt! | 14:16 |
| snap-l | yeah, that would be a good call. | 14:16 |
| snap-l | Well, my machine this morning was thrashing about | 14:16 |
| snap-l | apparently it had a page fault around 1am | 14:16 |
| snap-l | and that set everything into hell | 14:17 |
| snap-l | Not sure how one fills up 8GB on a desktop machine, but there we are. | 14:17 |
| snap-l | I think Miro might be to blame for that one | 14:17 |
| brousch | 1000 simultaneous tabs open with animated furrypr0n | 14:17 |
| snap-l | And then Microsoft Communicator crashed when I logged into work | 14:18 |
| snap-l | so I think my best bet would be to not upgrade today. | 14:18 |
| snap-l | Just feels like a recipe for failure. | 14:18 |
| snap-l | brousch: Maybe that's how you fill up memory on your machine | 14:19 |
| snap-l | but not here. ;) | 14:19 |
| brousch | oops | 14:19 |
| greg-g | brousch: you have a windows machine also, or in a vm? | 14:20 |
| greg-g | erm, snap-l ^ | 14:20 |
| snap-l | greg-g: Separate work machine | 14:22 |
| brousch | i have a winxp vm | 14:22 |
| brousch | and a winxp desktop at work | 14:22 |
| snap-l | I have XP n a VM, but it's only because I was setting it up for JoDee, and moved it to her machine | 14:23 |
| greg-g | gotcha, I've just been running it in a vm on my laptop as needed. Luckily I don't need to use Office Communicator all the time | 14:26 |
| snap-l | yeah, unfortunately it's our IM of choice for work | 14:27 |
| greg-g | yeah, I think we have the option here, but I don't know who actually uses it instead of gtalk | 14:27 |
| snap-l | So, not a question of wanting to use it, as much as having to use it. | 14:27 |
| greg-g | right right | 14:27 |
| snap-l | greg-g: I'd check the closets of those who use it willingly for gimp masks and whips. | 14:28 |
| snap-l | Oh dear god. | 14:29 |
| snap-l | Just visited a corporate page that looks like 1998 | 14:29 |
| snap-l | edit_prop.gif | 14:29 |
| snap-l | tables and everything | 14:30 |
| brousch | get off my web site! | 14:31 |
| jrwren | anyone know LVM well enough to recreate waht synology is doing with it with their hybrid raid setup? | 14:31 |
| snap-l | jrwren: what what what? | 14:32 |
| wolfger | what's wrong with tables? | 14:35 |
| wolfger | Nothing. | 14:35 |
| wolfger | :-p | 14:35 |
| snap-l | wolfger: when combined with .gif files that look like they came out of the same program that everyone used to make fancy buttons? Everything. | 14:36 |
| wolfger | Also: upgrading to Natty, snap-l? Don't you mean "upgrading to Oneiric"? Natty's old. ;-) | 14:36 |
| snap-l | wolfger: You're right. What was I thinking? | 14:37 |
| snap-l | Stable system? Pshaw. | 14:37 |
| wolfger | As a prominent LoCo member, you should be alpha-testing | 14:37 |
| wolfger | :-) | 14:37 |
| snap-l | wolfger: No, you're right. | 14:37 |
| snap-l | Hand me your machine. I'll alpha test there. ; | 14:38 |
| wolfger | :-p[ | 14:38 |
| wolfger | I'll be doing my own alpha testing on my machine, tyvm | 14:38 |
| snap-l | You'll do no such thing. You'll wait for the beta like everyone else. ;) | 14:39 |
| wolfger | was going to upgrade last night, actually, but wifi issues struck me again and ticked me off | 14:39 |
| snap-l | and then bitch when your wireless card tells you to stick it where the sun don't shune. | 14:39 |
| wolfger | :-) | 14:39 |
| wolfger | my wireless constantly tells me that anyway | 14:39 |
| wolfger | so upgrading makes perfect sense | 14:39 |
| wolfger | I'm hoping that by running alpha, I might actually get working wifi | 14:40 |
| wolfger | and if I don't.... no worse than stable :-p | 14:40 |
| snap-l | heh | 14:41 |
| wolfger | and I'm booting KDE to the curb again, too. Installed it at penguicon and it's rubbish | 14:41 |
| wolfger | Krashy McKrasherton is KDE's new name | 14:42 |
| snap-l | Ugh, that sucks, | 14:42 |
| wolfger | Kept trying to recognize my mouse as a display | 14:42 |
| jjesse | wolfger lots of crashes? natty runs fine for me on kde | 14:42 |
| wolfger | because it was plugged into a hybrid port | 14:43 |
| snap-l | That's funky. | 14:44 |
| snap-l | What's a hybrid port? Something that can handle both USB and video? | 14:44 |
| wolfger | tell me about it | 14:44 |
| wolfger | "oh, somethings plugged in to your eSATA/USB port. It must be a monitor! Let me recognize it and bug you about which display you wish to use with a pop-up dialog box!" | 14:45 |
| wolfger | Until I instructed the box to never appear again, I was getting like 20-30 of them at a time. | 14:45 |
| jrwren | snap-l: synology is jst a custom linux with LVM. They have really nice wizards and stuff that basically let you add storage adhoc and let a single partition just keep growing, and get some redundancy.http://serverfault.com/questions/272776/how-to-do-the-equivalent-of-synology-hybrid-raid-on-linux-myself | 14:45 |
| snap-l | That's really funky. I've never heard of the hybrid port, but it's a neat idea. | 14:46 |
| wolfger | I suppose it is. | 14:46 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Ah, kind of like Drobo's filesystem. | 14:46 |
| jrwren | is it? | 14:47 |
| wolfger | but I'd rather have a dedicated eSATA and a 3rd dedicated USB | 14:47 |
| snap-l | or at least without the funky patented bits. | 14:47 |
| wolfger | in case I ever have a need for eSATA | 14:47 |
| snap-l | jrwren: http://arstechnica.com/business/raising-your-tech-iq/2011/03/drobo-review-1.ars | 14:47 |
| jrwren | drobo is slow as shit though :( | 14:48 |
| jrwren | snap-l: the end result appears like drobo's fs, but the means to achieve it are suggested to be very different in the synology | 14:49 |
| snap-l | Yeah, no doubt. | 14:49 |
| brousch | greg-g: who is this female you're referring me to that can help find more females? | 15:23 |
| greg-g | brousch: he isn't female :) Asheesh is an awesome developer I met when I was an intern at CC back in 2008. He's working on increasing the involvement of women in FLOSS in boston/philly | 15:27 |
| greg-g | jcastro would vouch for asheesh as well | 15:27 |
| brousch | heh | 15:27 |
| brousch | there are very few female geeks in grand rapids | 15:29 |
| brousch | i've really only met 3 women who use linux | 15:29 |
| greg-g | start reproducing | 15:29 |
| greg-g | well, for you, continue | 15:29 |
| brousch | i tried that, it came out a boy :P | 15:29 |
| greg-g | hehe | 15:29 |
| brousch | i don't usually try to actively find more women for the groups. i do make sure they don't have any sexist problems when they come | 15:32 |
| * greg-g nods | 15:32 | |
| snap-l | Marry a physics geek, then you can turn them into a FLOSS geek. :) | 15:42 |
| snap-l | i do love all of the amateur sociology that occurs in these types of discussions | 15:42 |
| snap-l | It's like the female is a separate species. | 15:43 |
| brousch | she is, strange and mysterious. prone to fits of hysteria | 15:43 |
| greg-g | brousch: "i do make sure they don't have any sexist problems when they come" | 15:46 |
| greg-g | :P | 15:46 |
| krondor | aye, I was once yelled at by my SO one day because she found herself telling coworkers about Linux and understanding computer conversations. She was made she had been slowly plied into a nerd. | 15:46 |
| greg-g | krondor: congrats! | 15:47 |
| krondor | well she was always a nerd I guess, but medical nerds != CS nerds | 15:47 |
| snap-l | medical nerds are a strange breed | 15:48 |
| snap-l | It's like they pay grosser than gross with each other | 15:48 |
| krondor | oh god yes, I like to pretend she just plays with puppies all day. I can't even describe the dinner conversations... | 15:49 |
| snap-l | And then the guy started to ... [I'm SAILING a-way!!!!] | 15:50 |
| snap-l | and then ... [SET AN OPEN COURSE FO THE VIRGIN SEA] | 15:51 |
| krondor | hmm, rstat.us licensed with WTFPL a new license to me which pretty much reads exactly as you would think it would; https://github.com/hotsh/rstat.us/raw/be79740ed0f19b3a02e15dbcdbbdb8ca36509819/LICENSE | 15:51 |
| snap-l | heh | 15:52 |
| brousch | krondor: what does the detroit android group cover? | 15:52 |
| _stink_ | snap-l++ | 15:54 |
| krondor | brousch: it's really broad right now. Just trying to get android interested people in the same room regularly. There's a couple guys that wanted to talk android dev, some want to talk hacks, some want just to talk phones/apps/tips | 15:55 |
| brousch | i'm thinking of starting one in GR | 15:56 |
| brousch | i should act soon while the grwebdev mobile dev meeting is fresh in people's minds | 15:56 |
| krondor | the attendance to the first one wasn't that great, but it wasn't posted that far in advance. I think we had 6 people? Hoping this is a bit larger. | 15:56 |
| brousch | the gr java group usually has 5 attendees. they had an andrid meeting and there were like 25 people | 15:57 |
| krondor | wow that's pretty large, I was hoping eventually it might hit the teens and I'd be happy | 15:58 |
| brousch | i was really surprised | 15:59 |
| brousch | but then we're dutch over here, and android is cheap | 15:59 |
| brousch | grandroid is a good name | 16:01 |
| * wolfger pictures a bunch of senior citizens with Android phones... | 16:14 | |
| brousch | nice | 16:15 |
| brousch | not grand-pa grand-roid | 16:15 |
| brousch | wait, that is even worse | 16:16 |
| _stink_ | grandpa's-hemorrhoids -> grandrhoid! | 16:18 |
| greg-g | oh lord | 16:21 |
| wolfger | yeah, I also pondered the grand 'roid path... | 16:21 |
| snap-l | Gr'android. | 16:24 |
| snap-l | There's something good in there, but I'm not seeing it at the moment. | 16:24 |
| snap-l | GRAndroid | 16:24 |
| brousch | jjesse: what do you think, is grandroid a large hemorrhoid, your grandpa's hemorrhoid, or the grand rapids android development group? | 16:26 |
| jjesse | lol | 16:26 |
| jjesse | grand rapids android group? | 16:26 |
| jjesse | no idea for sure though | 16:27 |
| rick_h__ | I need a new job, the stupid here is getting depressing | 16:50 |
| jrwren | :( | 16:51 |
| jrwren | didn't you just move there? | 16:51 |
| jrwren | I think a software engineers job is dealing with teh stupid. its the biggest part of the job. | 16:51 |
| rick_h__ | yea, a little over a year | 16:52 |
| rick_h__ | the problem is I was brought in to help fix the stupid I guess, and over the last year I've managed to exact 5% of the change planned/hoped for | 16:52 |
| jrwren | is it a big org? | 16:53 |
| rick_h__ | the motivation for self and project improvement is just at such a detrimental low | 16:53 |
| rick_h__ | meh, 100-200 employees, dev team is 5 of us | 16:53 |
| rick_h__ | be everyone is put on their project islnads and no cross talk/etc | 16:53 |
| brousch | the rest of the team is the issue? | 16:53 |
| rick_h__ | makes it near impossible to help upgrade the rest of the team | 16:53 |
| rick_h__ | so code never gets better, same stupid problems still exist, and the lack of motivatin on everyone's part to *fix* things is just not there | 16:54 |
| rick_h__ | "why should I learn more about python to speed up my data load that takes 8 hours to run?" | 16:54 |
| jrwren | so no working together with the other 4? | 16:54 |
| rick_h__ | "Rather than fix my project's architecture I'd rather have my own git server so I can create a new project each time we need an installation of one" | 16:54 |
| jrwren | sounds pretty defective. Its hard to steer teams into effectiveness | 16:55 |
| rick_h__ | jrwren: no, most iteraction is an hour a week during team meeting where I toss out links, examples, etc | 16:55 |
| rick_h__ | but no one ever reads, revisits, etc | 16:55 |
| jrwren | ouch. | 16:55 |
| rick_h__ | at one point 3mo ago talked the boss into letting me pair with other devs 1 day a week | 16:55 |
| rick_h__ | it's not once happened in those 3mo | 16:55 |
| jrwren | you should just do it. | 16:55 |
| rick_h__ | yea, but when you try you get the "no time for that" every time for months on end | 16:56 |
| jrwren | taht isn't even a valid answer. | 16:56 |
| jrwren | it takes no time. | 16:56 |
| rick_h__ | heh, welcome to my world | 16:57 |
| jrwren | you will be working on the same thing as if you weren't paring. | 16:57 |
| rick_h__ | half the stuff I've even rewrote code for them | 16:57 |
| rick_h__ | but never gets integrated/read through | 16:57 |
| rick_h__ | and if I do get my redone code into their project, it does no good, they've not learned anything | 16:57 |
| rick_h__ | never look at it again | 16:57 |
| rick_h__ | there's a lack of will/incentive I guess | 16:57 |
| brousch | have you discussed this with your boss? | 16:57 |
| rick_h__ | well, discussed the lack of progress | 16:58 |
| rick_h__ | thus the pairing stuff, but no, not that it's getting to the point that I just worry about my project and build myself my own island | 16:58 |
| rick_h__ | and that's why I'm debating starting looking again. | 16:58 |
| jrwren | you can't help those who don't want to learn. | 16:58 |
| jrwren | that is why I let my last job. | 16:58 |
| rick_h__ | I don't want to just make myself an island with my way of doing things and sticking through it | 16:58 |
| rick_h__ | yea, exactly. I know I'm bit of a glutton for punishment on that learning side | 16:59 |
| rick_h__ | but geeze, one year later and most of the testing, build server, automating, is all stuff I wrote | 16:59 |
| rick_h__ | eventually it'd be nice to get a chance to use code someone else wrote to fix a problem vs getting brought in to fix someone's problem lol | 17:00 |
| rick_h__ | meh, sorry, just ranting. Had a staff meeting today and people still complaining about same issues they had 6mo ago that I gave instructions on how to correct | 17:01 |
| jrwren | oh the woes of being top dog | 17:17 |
| jrwren | the real bummer about being top dog like that is the learning is all on you. you don't get to learn from others. | 17:18 |
| jrwren | or even if your peers were equals you could converse adn learn, but it sounds like they aren't capable enough to even be your peer. | 17:19 |
| rick_h__ | jrwren: yea, I read stuff like the 'in the plex' and you see a lot out of these startups with very smart people and crave to work with people that know more than me | 17:19 |
| rick_h__ | fortunately, I'm nuts with learning/trying new stuff, but still, sometimes guidance from an experienced "been there/done that" would be awesome | 17:20 |
| jrwren | yup | 17:22 |
| jrwren | or even just someone who is on teh same page as you. | 17:22 |
| jrwren | problem is... going and joining a startup is usually a pay cut | 17:22 |
| jrwren | so... priorities | 17:22 |
| rick_h__ | well yea, and kid, etc | 17:22 |
| rick_h__ | I've got cushy where I work from home, do more time with the kid | 17:23 |
| rick_h__ | the wife's the doc that works all the hours | 17:23 |
| rick_h__ | yea, oh well, eventually figure something out. No job is permanent as I've learned | 17:23 |
| rick_h__ | https://twitter.com/#!/niallohiggins/status/73063263386083328 discuss | 17:31 |
| wolfger | "corp firewall sucks" is the extent of my discussion on any Twitter link | 17:38 |
| rick_h__ | ouch | 17:39 |
| rick_h__ | "database is the last thing that is going to be fixed in the cloud" - so true, I/O on EC2 and friends is just awful today. #MongoSF | 17:39 |
| rick_h__ | oops, wrong one | 17:40 |
| rick_h__ | "caches are a workaround for databases that aren't fast enough" -- Dwight Merriman, @mongodb #MongoSF | 17:40 |
| rick_h__ | ^^ is the one I found interesting | 17:40 |
| wolfger | I'll comment on the wrong one first.... Last thing going to be fixed, but first thing that needs to be. :-p | 17:43 |
| wolfger | Cache.... I don't think cache is a workaround. Cache is a tool. A smart one, that should be used regardless of whether your database is "fast enough" or not. | 17:45 |
| snap-l | Those MongoDB guys are so cheeky | 17:47 |
| snap-l | thinking they have the silver bullet | 17:48 |
| wolfger | ...unless your db needs are so ridiculously lean that cache is overkill, that is | 17:48 |
| snap-l | Well, they have a point, to a certain extent | 17:48 |
| snap-l | MongoDB is really fast at the database level | 17:48 |
| snap-l | So it could obviate the need for things like Memcache | 17:49 |
| snap-l | I can't give a concrete example of why I feel that statement is wrong, but it just feels wrong to make an absolute statement like that. | 17:51 |
| rick_h__ | because caching is used all over the world of tech and is useful vs a sign of a problem | 17:51 |
| rick_h__ | I mean sure, a CDN is a sign that you don't have ms response time from NYC to SF | 17:52 |
| rick_h__ | but it doesn't mean it's bad | 17:52 |
| snap-l | rick_h__: I think you nailed what I'm thinking | 17:52 |
| rick_h__ | and even with mongodb, what's an index but a cache of data? | 17:53 |
| rick_h__ | it's a stupid statement meant to inflame people at a conference about a tool that wants to sell itself as pure awesome in a jar | 17:53 |
| snap-l | bingo | 17:53 |
| rick_h__ | in my ever so humble opinion :) | 17:53 |
| snap-l | That's what puts me off on MongoDB, that arrogance | 17:54 |
| snap-l | Pretty sure if you turned off all of the bits ensuring that your data is safely written to disk, you could achieve blistering performance. | 17:55 |
| snap-l | ... with just about any DB. | 17:55 |
| snap-l | At least I can be pretty sure with PostgreSQL that the data is somewhere. | 17:55 |
| rick_h__ | you can always work at near the performance of youd disk | 17:56 |
| rick_h__ | /youd/your | 17:56 |
| snap-l | and believe me, I've seen PostgreSQL in very unhappy states | 17:56 |
| binbrain | and, for those of that haven't seen, take a moment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs | 18:02 |
| snap-l | binbrain: Seriously? :) | 18:02 |
| snap-l | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GpOfwbFRcs | 18:03 |
| binbrain | "I suggest you pipe your data to /dev/null, it will be very fast" | 18:04 |
| binbrain | lol | 18:04 |
| snap-l | "How the hell do software developers get groupies?" | 18:08 |
| snap-l | Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_9H1WPV2Ws&NR=1 | 18:09 |
| jrwren | MongoDB is just a giant cache. | 18:18 |
| jrwren | it just happens ot flush to disk... maybe... sometimes... if you are lukcy | 18:18 |
| brousch | miro syncs with android? http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Miro-4.0-with-Android-Sync | 18:21 |
| brousch | ftr, i hate linux magazine and it's damn pdf issue for the full article | 18:21 |
| brousch | want to read the article? 109MB download! | 18:21 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I saw that Miro 4.0 was ou | 18:22 |
| snap-l | t | 18:22 |
| jrwren | wtf is miro? | 18:23 |
| brousch | really? | 18:23 |
| brousch | like a feed reader for video | 18:23 |
| snap-l | and audio | 18:24 |
| snap-l | It's a podcatcher | 18:24 |
| jrwren | oh that. | 18:25 |
| jrwren | that is still around? | 18:25 |
| wolfger | Yeah. Used to be "Democracy" a long time ago | 18:26 |
| wolfger | I absolutely love it for the NASA videos | 18:26 |
| brousch | i love it for pycon videos | 18:27 |
| jrwren | meego 1.2 released 4 days ago... also... i like turtles. | 18:52 |
| wolfger | wheaton! | 18:59 |
| rick_h__ | ok, this node.js is going to do some cool stuff I think | 19:01 |
| jrwren | node as in node? | 19:01 |
| rick_h__ | node as in the js server side framework | 19:01 |
| rick_h__ | peeking at using it do replace a dns/email checking service we run | 19:02 |
| brousch | jrwren: meego is bleh | 19:03 |
| jrwren | that is what I was saying. :) | 19:03 |
| jrwren | yeah, node is pretty damned cool. | 19:03 |
| brousch | turtles are cool | 19:03 |
| rick_h__ | for stuff like this, dns checks, with lots of time spent in i/o, can really crank the req/s | 19:04 |
| rick_h__ | throw the concurrent connections at it | 19:04 |
| brousch | js is finally taking over the serverside too? | 19:06 |
| rick_h__ | yea, working on it in some cases | 19:07 |
| brousch | damnit, i'm finally getting ok at python | 19:09 |
| rick_h__ | well it's not replacing all python, but for this one off corner server thing I think it'll be good/cool | 19:12 |
| jrwren | as long as it is blocking IO :) | 19:23 |
| jrwren | you can't magically speed up disks :) | 19:23 |
| brousch | greg-g: do we need to do anything for this? http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/18/re-approvals-for-o-cycle-rules-and-overview/ | 19:23 |
| greg-g | brousch: yeah | 19:24 |
| greg-g | I've been swamped lately and haven't gotten to it at night, I need to solicit some help with writing some team reports | 19:24 |
| brousch | email it to the list | 19:25 |
| brousch | we'll crowd-source that crap ;) | 19:25 |
| greg-g | heck yeah, will do | 19:26 |
| brousch | this looks like something i should read http://www.aosabook.org/en/index.html | 19:32 |
| rick_h__ | it sounds interesting | 19:33 |
| rick_h__ | but more as a light 'for fun' read I think | 19:33 |
| snap-l | I added that to the next IRC meeting (the team reports, reapproval, etc) | 19:35 |
| brousch | i am really poor at overall organization | 19:36 |
| greg-g | snap-l: thanks | 19:36 |
| snap-l | I'm not great at it either. :) | 19:36 |
| rick_h__ | woot! got sign off to keep working on this as a node.js project | 21:40 |
| brousch | did they groan? | 21:41 |
| brousch | more new technology? | 21:41 |
| rick_h__ | yea, there was some of that | 21:42 |
| rick_h__ | and he got taking it too far "well, but what about this app and that app" | 21:42 |
| rick_h__ | but I kept it down "for this use case, it's the best answer." | 21:42 |
| rick_h__ | "all I'm talking about is for this use case" | 21:42 |
| rick_h__ | besides, it fun to see req/s go by at 500+ :) | 21:43 |
| snap-l | rick_h__: Awesomesauce. | 21:43 |
| rick_h__ | and with that I'll head home on a higher note | 21:44 |
| snap-l | Well, it looks like TweetDeck is officially bought by Twitter. | 22:21 |
| snap-l | http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/may/24/twitter-to-buy-tweetdeck | 22:22 |
| snap-l | Oh fucking hell: http://slashdot.org/story/11/05/24/2010222/Microsoft-Kills-Skype-for-Asterisk | 22:24 |
| snap-l | Apparently I'm too stupid to use Java. | 22:48 |
| snap-l | so, fuck it. | 22:48 |
| snap-l | http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/hizdd/ides_for_wsgi_development/ <- I think I just heard rick_h__ die a little inside. | 23:45 |
| Blazeix | oh, man, working remotely via WinSCP? | 23:52 |
| Blazeix | shoot me now | 23:52 |
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