[00:04] ok, funny: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igeneration/video-obamas-beast-car-gets-stuck-on-ramp-in-dublin/10204 [00:25] rick_h__: Yeah, those cars are heavy as hell [00:26] they had to make special arrangements to park over at Hope College when George Senior came to speak [02:19] anyone ever use xmlrpc cmdline? http://xmlrpc-c.sourceforge.net/doc/#xmlrpc [14:12] Good morning [14:13] morning [14:14] I was thinking of upgrading to Natty today, but with the machine revolt I have on my hands, that doesn't seem prudent. [14:16] snap-l: I think I'd wait a day or two if I were you :) [14:16] revolt! [14:16] yeah, that would be a good call. [14:16] Well, my machine this morning was thrashing about [14:16] apparently it had a page fault around 1am [14:17] and that set everything into hell [14:17] Not sure how one fills up 8GB on a desktop machine, but there we are. [14:17] I think Miro might be to blame for that one [14:17] 1000 simultaneous tabs open with animated furrypr0n [14:18] And then Microsoft Communicator crashed when I logged into work [14:18] so I think my best bet would be to not upgrade today. [14:18] Just feels like a recipe for failure. [14:19] brousch: Maybe that's how you fill up memory on your machine [14:19] but not here. ;) [14:19] oops [14:20] brousch: you have a windows machine also, or in a vm? [14:20] erm, snap-l ^ [14:22] greg-g: Separate work machine [14:22] i have a winxp vm [14:22] and a winxp desktop at work [14:23] I have XP n a VM, but it's only because I was setting it up for JoDee, and moved it to her machine [14:26] gotcha, I've just been running it in a vm on my laptop as needed. Luckily I don't need to use Office Communicator all the time [14:27] yeah, unfortunately it's our IM of choice for work [14:27] yeah, I think we have the option here, but I don't know who actually uses it instead of gtalk [14:27] So, not a question of wanting to use it, as much as having to use it. [14:27] right right [14:28] greg-g: I'd check the closets of those who use it willingly for gimp masks and whips. [14:29] Oh dear god. [14:29] Just visited a corporate page that looks like 1998 [14:29] edit_prop.gif [14:30] tables and everything [14:31] get off my web site! [14:31] anyone know LVM well enough to recreate waht synology is doing with it with their hybrid raid setup? [14:32] jrwren: what what what? [14:35] what's wrong with tables? [14:35] Nothing. [14:35] :-p [14:36] wolfger: when combined with .gif files that look like they came out of the same program that everyone used to make fancy buttons? Everything. [14:36] Also: upgrading to Natty, snap-l? Don't you mean "upgrading to Oneiric"? Natty's old. ;-) [14:37] wolfger: You're right. What was I thinking? [14:37] Stable system? Pshaw. [14:37] As a prominent LoCo member, you should be alpha-testing [14:37] :-) [14:37] wolfger: No, you're right. [14:38] Hand me your machine. I'll alpha test there. ; [14:38] :-p[ [14:38] I'll be doing my own alpha testing on my machine, tyvm [14:39] You'll do no such thing. You'll wait for the beta like everyone else. ;) [14:39] was going to upgrade last night, actually, but wifi issues struck me again and ticked me off [14:39] and then bitch when your wireless card tells you to stick it where the sun don't shune. [14:39] :-) [14:39] my wireless constantly tells me that anyway [14:39] so upgrading makes perfect sense [14:40] I'm hoping that by running alpha, I might actually get working wifi [14:40] and if I don't.... no worse than stable :-p [14:41] heh [14:41] and I'm booting KDE to the curb again, too. Installed it at penguicon and it's rubbish [14:42] Krashy McKrasherton is KDE's new name [14:42] Ugh, that sucks, [14:42] Kept trying to recognize my mouse as a display [14:42] wolfger lots of crashes? natty runs fine for me on kde [14:43] because it was plugged into a hybrid port [14:44] That's funky. [14:44] What's a hybrid port? Something that can handle both USB and video? [14:44] tell me about it [14:45] "oh, somethings plugged in to your eSATA/USB port. It must be a monitor! Let me recognize it and bug you about which display you wish to use with a pop-up dialog box!" [14:45] Until I instructed the box to never appear again, I was getting like 20-30 of them at a time. [14:45] snap-l: synology is jst a custom linux with LVM. They have really nice wizards and stuff that basically let you add storage adhoc and let a single partition just keep growing, and get some redundancy.http://serverfault.com/questions/272776/how-to-do-the-equivalent-of-synology-hybrid-raid-on-linux-myself [14:46] That's really funky. I've never heard of the hybrid port, but it's a neat idea. [14:46] I suppose it is. [14:46] jrwren: Ah, kind of like Drobo's filesystem. [14:47] is it? [14:47] but I'd rather have a dedicated eSATA and a 3rd dedicated USB [14:47] or at least without the funky patented bits. [14:47] in case I ever have a need for eSATA [14:47] jrwren: http://arstechnica.com/business/raising-your-tech-iq/2011/03/drobo-review-1.ars [14:48] drobo is slow as shit though :( [14:49] snap-l: the end result appears like drobo's fs, but the means to achieve it are suggested to be very different in the synology [14:49] Yeah, no doubt. [15:23] greg-g: who is this female you're referring me to that can help find more females? [15:27] brousch: he isn't female :) Asheesh is an awesome developer I met when I was an intern at CC back in 2008. He's working on increasing the involvement of women in FLOSS in boston/philly [15:27] jcastro would vouch for asheesh as well [15:27] heh [15:29] there are very few female geeks in grand rapids [15:29] i've really only met 3 women who use linux [15:29] start reproducing [15:29] well, for you, continue [15:29] i tried that, it came out a boy :P [15:29] hehe [15:32] i don't usually try to actively find more women for the groups. i do make sure they don't have any sexist problems when they come [15:32] * greg-g nods [15:42] Marry a physics geek, then you can turn them into a FLOSS geek. :) [15:42] i do love all of the amateur sociology that occurs in these types of discussions [15:43] It's like the female is a separate species. [15:43] she is, strange and mysterious. prone to fits of hysteria [15:46] brousch: "i do make sure they don't have any sexist problems when they come" [15:46] :P [15:46] aye, I was once yelled at by my SO one day because she found herself telling coworkers about Linux and understanding computer conversations. She was made she had been slowly plied into a nerd. [15:47] krondor: congrats! [15:47] well she was always a nerd I guess, but medical nerds != CS nerds [15:48] medical nerds are a strange breed [15:48] It's like they pay grosser than gross with each other [15:49] oh god yes, I like to pretend she just plays with puppies all day. I can't even describe the dinner conversations... [15:50] And then the guy started to ... [I'm SAILING a-way!!!!] [15:51] and then ... [SET AN OPEN COURSE FO THE VIRGIN SEA] [15:51] hmm, rstat.us licensed with WTFPL a new license to me which pretty much reads exactly as you would think it would; https://github.com/hotsh/rstat.us/raw/be79740ed0f19b3a02e15dbcdbbdb8ca36509819/LICENSE [15:52] heh [15:52] krondor: what does the detroit android group cover? [15:54] <_stink_> snap-l++ [15:55] brousch: it's really broad right now. Just trying to get android interested people in the same room regularly. There's a couple guys that wanted to talk android dev, some want to talk hacks, some want just to talk phones/apps/tips [15:56] i'm thinking of starting one in GR [15:56] i should act soon while the grwebdev mobile dev meeting is fresh in people's minds [15:56] the attendance to the first one wasn't that great, but it wasn't posted that far in advance. I think we had 6 people? Hoping this is a bit larger. [15:57] the gr java group usually has 5 attendees. they had an andrid meeting and there were like 25 people [15:58] wow that's pretty large, I was hoping eventually it might hit the teens and I'd be happy [15:59] i was really surprised [15:59] but then we're dutch over here, and android is cheap [16:01] grandroid is a good name [16:14] * wolfger pictures a bunch of senior citizens with Android phones... [16:15] nice [16:15] not grand-pa grand-roid [16:16] wait, that is even worse [16:18] <_stink_> grandpa's-hemorrhoids -> grandrhoid! [16:21] oh lord [16:21] yeah, I also pondered the grand 'roid path... [16:24] Gr'android. [16:24] There's something good in there, but I'm not seeing it at the moment. [16:24] GRAndroid [16:26] jjesse: what do you think, is grandroid a large hemorrhoid, your grandpa's hemorrhoid, or the grand rapids android development group? [16:26] lol [16:26] grand rapids android group? [16:27] no idea for sure though [16:50] I need a new job, the stupid here is getting depressing [16:51] :( [16:51] didn't you just move there? [16:51] I think a software engineers job is dealing with teh stupid. its the biggest part of the job. [16:52] yea, a little over a year [16:52] the problem is I was brought in to help fix the stupid I guess, and over the last year I've managed to exact 5% of the change planned/hoped for [16:53] is it a big org? [16:53] the motivation for self and project improvement is just at such a detrimental low [16:53] meh, 100-200 employees, dev team is 5 of us [16:53] be everyone is put on their project islnads and no cross talk/etc [16:53] the rest of the team is the issue? [16:53] makes it near impossible to help upgrade the rest of the team [16:54] so code never gets better, same stupid problems still exist, and the lack of motivatin on everyone's part to *fix* things is just not there [16:54] "why should I learn more about python to speed up my data load that takes 8 hours to run?" [16:54] so no working together with the other 4? [16:54] "Rather than fix my project's architecture I'd rather have my own git server so I can create a new project each time we need an installation of one" [16:55] sounds pretty defective. Its hard to steer teams into effectiveness [16:55] jrwren: no, most iteraction is an hour a week during team meeting where I toss out links, examples, etc [16:55] but no one ever reads, revisits, etc [16:55] ouch. [16:55] at one point 3mo ago talked the boss into letting me pair with other devs 1 day a week [16:55] it's not once happened in those 3mo [16:55] you should just do it. [16:56] yea, but when you try you get the "no time for that" every time for months on end [16:56] taht isn't even a valid answer. [16:56] it takes no time. [16:57] heh, welcome to my world [16:57] you will be working on the same thing as if you weren't paring. [16:57] half the stuff I've even rewrote code for them [16:57] but never gets integrated/read through [16:57] and if I do get my redone code into their project, it does no good, they've not learned anything [16:57] never look at it again [16:57] there's a lack of will/incentive I guess [16:57] have you discussed this with your boss? [16:58] well, discussed the lack of progress [16:58] thus the pairing stuff, but no, not that it's getting to the point that I just worry about my project and build myself my own island [16:58] and that's why I'm debating starting looking again. [16:58] you can't help those who don't want to learn. [16:58] that is why I let my last job. [16:58] I don't want to just make myself an island with my way of doing things and sticking through it [16:59] yea, exactly. I know I'm bit of a glutton for punishment on that learning side [16:59] but geeze, one year later and most of the testing, build server, automating, is all stuff I wrote [17:00] eventually it'd be nice to get a chance to use code someone else wrote to fix a problem vs getting brought in to fix someone's problem lol [17:01] meh, sorry, just ranting. Had a staff meeting today and people still complaining about same issues they had 6mo ago that I gave instructions on how to correct [17:17] oh the woes of being top dog [17:18] the real bummer about being top dog like that is the learning is all on you. you don't get to learn from others. [17:19] or even if your peers were equals you could converse adn learn, but it sounds like they aren't capable enough to even be your peer. [17:19] jrwren: yea, I read stuff like the 'in the plex' and you see a lot out of these startups with very smart people and crave to work with people that know more than me [17:20] fortunately, I'm nuts with learning/trying new stuff, but still, sometimes guidance from an experienced "been there/done that" would be awesome [17:22] yup [17:22] or even just someone who is on teh same page as you. [17:22] problem is... going and joining a startup is usually a pay cut [17:22] so... priorities [17:22] well yea, and kid, etc [17:23] I've got cushy where I work from home, do more time with the kid [17:23] the wife's the doc that works all the hours [17:23] yea, oh well, eventually figure something out. No job is permanent as I've learned [17:31] https://twitter.com/#!/niallohiggins/status/73063263386083328 discuss [17:38] "corp firewall sucks" is the extent of my discussion on any Twitter link [17:39] ouch [17:39] "database is the last thing that is going to be fixed in the cloud" - so true, I/O on EC2 and friends is just awful today. #MongoSF [17:40] oops, wrong one [17:40] "caches are a workaround for databases that aren't fast enough" -- Dwight Merriman, @mongodb #MongoSF [17:40] ^^ is the one I found interesting [17:43] I'll comment on the wrong one first.... Last thing going to be fixed, but first thing that needs to be. :-p [17:45] Cache.... I don't think cache is a workaround. Cache is a tool. A smart one, that should be used regardless of whether your database is "fast enough" or not. [17:47] Those MongoDB guys are so cheeky [17:48] thinking they have the silver bullet [17:48] ...unless your db needs are so ridiculously lean that cache is overkill, that is [17:48] Well, they have a point, to a certain extent [17:48] MongoDB is really fast at the database level [17:49] So it could obviate the need for things like Memcache [17:51] I can't give a concrete example of why I feel that statement is wrong, but it just feels wrong to make an absolute statement like that. [17:51] because caching is used all over the world of tech and is useful vs a sign of a problem [17:52] I mean sure, a CDN is a sign that you don't have ms response time from NYC to SF [17:52] but it doesn't mean it's bad [17:52] rick_h__: I think you nailed what I'm thinking [17:53] and even with mongodb, what's an index but a cache of data? [17:53] it's a stupid statement meant to inflame people at a conference about a tool that wants to sell itself as pure awesome in a jar [17:53] bingo [17:53] in my ever so humble opinion :) [17:54] That's what puts me off on MongoDB, that arrogance [17:55] Pretty sure if you turned off all of the bits ensuring that your data is safely written to disk, you could achieve blistering performance. [17:55] ... with just about any DB. [17:55] At least I can be pretty sure with PostgreSQL that the data is somewhere. [17:56] you can always work at near the performance of youd disk [17:56] /youd/your [17:56] and believe me, I've seen PostgreSQL in very unhappy states [18:02] and, for those of that haven't seen, take a moment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs [18:02] binbrain: Seriously? :) [18:03] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GpOfwbFRcs [18:04] "I suggest you pipe your data to /dev/null, it will be very fast" [18:04] lol [18:08] "How the hell do software developers get groupies?" [18:09] Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_9H1WPV2Ws&NR=1 [18:18] MongoDB is just a giant cache. [18:18] it just happens ot flush to disk... maybe... sometimes... if you are lukcy [18:21] miro syncs with android? http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Miro-4.0-with-Android-Sync [18:21] ftr, i hate linux magazine and it's damn pdf issue for the full article [18:21] want to read the article? 109MB download! [18:22] Yeah, I saw that Miro 4.0 was ou [18:22] t [18:23] wtf is miro? [18:23] really? [18:23] like a feed reader for video [18:24] and audio [18:24] It's a podcatcher [18:25] oh that. [18:25] that is still around? [18:26] Yeah. Used to be "Democracy" a long time ago [18:26] I absolutely love it for the NASA videos [18:27] i love it for pycon videos [18:52] meego 1.2 released 4 days ago... also... i like turtles. [18:59] wheaton! [19:01] ok, this node.js is going to do some cool stuff I think [19:01] node as in node? [19:01] node as in the js server side framework [19:02] peeking at using it do replace a dns/email checking service we run [19:03] jrwren: meego is bleh [19:03] that is what I was saying. :) [19:03] yeah, node is pretty damned cool. [19:03] turtles are cool [19:04] for stuff like this, dns checks, with lots of time spent in i/o, can really crank the req/s [19:04] throw the concurrent connections at it [19:06] js is finally taking over the serverside too? [19:07] yea, working on it in some cases [19:09] damnit, i'm finally getting ok at python [19:12] well it's not replacing all python, but for this one off corner server thing I think it'll be good/cool [19:23] as long as it is blocking IO :) [19:23] you can't magically speed up disks :) [19:23] greg-g: do we need to do anything for this? http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/18/re-approvals-for-o-cycle-rules-and-overview/ [19:24] brousch: yeah [19:24] I've been swamped lately and haven't gotten to it at night, I need to solicit some help with writing some team reports [19:25] email it to the list [19:25] we'll crowd-source that crap ;) [19:26] heck yeah, will do [19:32] this looks like something i should read http://www.aosabook.org/en/index.html [19:33] it sounds interesting [19:33] but more as a light 'for fun' read I think [19:35] I added that to the next IRC meeting (the team reports, reapproval, etc) [19:36] i am really poor at overall organization [19:36] snap-l: thanks [19:36] I'm not great at it either. :) [21:40] woot! got sign off to keep working on this as a node.js project [21:41] did they groan? [21:41] more new technology? [21:42] yea, there was some of that [21:42] and he got taking it too far "well, but what about this app and that app" [21:42] but I kept it down "for this use case, it's the best answer." [21:42] "all I'm talking about is for this use case" [21:43] besides, it fun to see req/s go by at 500+ :) [21:43] rick_h__: Awesomesauce. [21:44] and with that I'll head home on a higher note [22:21] Well, it looks like TweetDeck is officially bought by Twitter. [22:22] http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/may/24/twitter-to-buy-tweetdeck [22:24] Oh fucking hell: http://slashdot.org/story/11/05/24/2010222/Microsoft-Kills-Skype-for-Asterisk [22:48] Apparently I'm too stupid to use Java. [22:48] so, fuck it. [23:45] http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/hizdd/ides_for_wsgi_development/ <- I think I just heard rick_h__ die a little inside. [23:52] oh, man, working remotely via WinSCP? [23:52] shoot me now