[00:31] <greg-g> paultag: on the team report wiki-infrastructure (ie: following the Team Reports howto guide), do I have to follow the naming convention of the month? The way it is now (month name, eg: April) the sort is alphabetical, which doesn't make much sense.
[00:32] <greg-g> paultag: will it break anything if I use month numbers, eg: 01, 02, ... 11, 12
[00:32] <greg-g> czajkowski: ^ comments also welcome :)
[00:32] <paultag> greg-g: nope, it's just convention
[00:32] <paultag> greg-g: feel free to use whatever you want :)
[00:32] <greg-g> cool, then I'm going to use numbers
[00:32] <greg-g> thanks man
[00:32] <paultag> greg-g: sure thing dude
[00:33]  * greg-g likes orderly ordered lists ;)
[00:33] <paultag> greg-g: I can't blame you!
[00:33] <greg-g> paultag: I figured you wouldn't :)
[00:33] <paultag> :)
[00:34] <paultag> I'm a data manicuring whore :)
[00:34] <paultag> I wonder why we used month names to begin with
[00:34]  * Cheri703 thinks paultag needs that as his fb status for a while "I'm a data manicuring whore :) "
[00:34] <paultag> nhandler: prod -- do you remember why we use TeamReport/YY/Monthname and not TeamReport/YY/MM
[00:34] <paultag> czajkowski: :)
[00:34] <greg-g> Cheri703: +1 to that idea
[00:35] <paultag> Oh fine :)
[00:35] <Cheri703> hehe
[00:37] <paultag> it was pung, should show up soonish
[00:38] <Cheri703> :)
[00:51]  * greg-g grumbles at the wiki
[01:32] <paultag> Cheri703: Ahha! It posted (sorry, was out getting vino) -- http://twitter.com/#!/paultag/status/73175167928516608
[01:32] <Cheri703> :) Yeah, I saw that :)
[01:33] <cjohnston> paultag.. I have an action item for you ;-)
[01:33] <paultag> cjohnston: oh lordy
[01:33] <paultag> cjohnston: what's up?
[01:33] <cjohnston> add 2 more hours to the day
[01:33] <paultag> cjohnston: true that!
[01:34] <cjohnston> jono and joey keep adding stuff to my schedule.. lol
[01:35] <paultag> :P
[04:19] <mhall119> cjohnston: I may not be able to make the call on thursday, i may be taking Q to his therapy
[04:20] <mhall119> if I can't make it, just sign me up for whatever you feel like
[04:41] <paultag> pleia2: e'scu me, http://i.imgur.com/OBmAd.jpg?982
[04:42] <pleia2> but she has hair long enough to maybe do leia buns!
[04:42] <Cheri703> hehe
[04:42] <paultag> pleia2: :)
[04:43] <pleia2> don't actually need hair very long, I did it once when my hair was just below my shoulders
[04:43] <paultag> hehehe
[04:43] <pleia2> for the intrepid release party: http://gallery.ubuntupennsylvania.org/d/520-1/img_8592.jpg
[04:44] <pleia2> (yes, I am sitting next to indiana jones)
[04:44] <paultag> pleia2: hahahahah, that rocks!
[04:46] <pleia2> indiana jones works for canonical now
[04:47] <Cheri703> hehe
[04:47] <paultag> pleia2: hehehe
[04:51] <nigelb_> indiana jones? wha?
[04:55] <nigelb> AlanBell: I got IS to enable the base search plugin, but the twitter style links still don't work :(
[04:58] <paultag> one love ya'll
[04:58] <paultag> nighgt
[04:58] <paultag> wow, night
[04:59] <nigelb> night paultag
[07:07] <dpm> good morning!
[07:15] <AlanBell> nigelb: yup
[07:15] <AlanBell> it isn't something I broke with the theme either
[08:05] <nigelb> AlanBell: I poked Daviey the other night for help.  I'll see if I can catch him when he's free.
[08:05] <nigelb> morning dpm!
[08:05] <nigelb> no dholbach today? :(
[08:06] <dpm> hey nigelb :) dholbach is on holiday, good for him \o/
[08:06] <nigelb> dpm: ah!
[08:07] <nigelb> dpm: I have a bunch of feedback from using the packaging guide last night :)
[08:07] <nigelb> I guess I'll just email him :)
[08:07] <dpm> nigelb, yeah, just send him an e-mail and he'll look at it when he's back :)
[08:07] <nigelb> :)
[08:51] <kim0> Morning everyone
[08:55] <nigelb> Morning kim0!
[09:04] <kim0> nigelb: hey
[09:30] <dpm> hey kim0 :)
[09:30] <kim0> dpm: hey man .. how are ya
[09:31] <kim0> dholbach is enjoying some beach time, right .. cool
[09:31] <dpm> kim0, very well, thanks, it's starting to get hot here, but I guess nowhere near as hot as it gets in Cairo :)
[09:32] <kim0> dpm: hehe it's around 31C in Cairo now
[09:32] <kim0> yes starting to get hot indeed
[09:32] <dpm> :)
[10:36] <czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/05/25/loco-team-re-approvals-are-underway/
[10:36] <czajkowski> yay
[13:50] <czajkowski> it would be nice if the loco team contact could you know, be helpful at times
[13:50] <czajkowski> and pass the information onto their teams without them making the call as to whether their team will approve of a mail or not
[13:50] <czajkowski> *mutters*
[13:50] <czajkowski> *fumes*
[13:51] <maco> czajkowski: fabian?
[13:51] <czajkowski> yes not the first time he's sent similar mails
[13:51] <czajkowski> am now fuming
[13:51] <czajkowski> what the hell is the point in having a loco contact who is making passing on their own opinion and not to the rest of their team
[13:52] <czajkowski> es google docs are not fully open
[13:52] <czajkowski> whoppdie doo
[13:52] <czajkowski> it's a good first start
[13:52] <czajkowski> I can see it caters more for an admin but so be it
[13:52] <Pici> As much as we don't like it, I think we should remember that in some team contacts think that they are the team leaders as well.  Not that this should excuse that behavior, but whatever.
[13:52] <czajkowski> but to not pass it on
[13:52] <czajkowski> Pici: excuse my french but fuck that now that's not on still
[13:53] <czajkowski> making ones own personal feelings known is one thing, not passing on information based on that to the team is NOT ON
[13:53] <Pici> czajkowski: Aye, thats not cool.
[13:53] <czajkowski> aye which is what he and I know others do so am now rather mad
[13:53] <czajkowski> which is never a good thing
[13:56] <Pici> I wouldn't want to be in your way when you're angry ;)
[13:57] <jussi> nor I
[13:59] <czajkowski> no aloha means I'm not happy on  mail btw
[13:59]  * czajkowski hugs maco 
[14:08] <czajkowski> really annoyed
[14:08] <czajkowski> >:(
[14:13] <popey> Pici: being a team leader is not a bad thing
[14:13] <popey> you make it sound like being a team leader as well as a team contact is somehow a negative thing
[14:21] <paultag> yeah popey
[14:21] <paultag> it can work, but it's harder
[14:21] <paultag> and you have to be objective in both positions
[14:21]  * czajkowski tickles paultag 
[14:21] <czajkowski> hangover gone ?
[14:22] <paultag> czajkowski: finally!
[14:22] <paultag> where's dholbach?
[14:22] <paultag> czajkowski: finally got enough rest :)
[14:23] <czajkowski> good stuff
[14:23] <IdleOne> I know Fabian's email may have seemed harsh but I do understand his position, the teams he is contact/lead for are non English. For example the -qc team which I am part of also has many English reading people but when they see any form of communication not in English they assume it is not meant for them and in turn might feel like their opinion does not matter to anyone else because it isn't in a language they can understand. I know
[14:23] <IdleOne>  maco and those who helped her worked hard on this survey and I took the time to answer it. I appreciate the efforts and I believe Fabian does also.
[14:25] <IdleOne> s/not in Englsh/in English/
[14:25] <paultag> IdleOne: you forgot to escape the spaces ;)
[14:25] <popey> +1
[14:25] <IdleOne> heh
[14:26] <Pici> popey: I should have clarified that.  Some 'team leaders' take the leadership aspect and twist it into some form of dictatorship, thats what I was referencing.  Also, I've not seen any email that everyone seems to be talking about, so if I'm completely off the mark, feel free to ignore me ;)
[14:26] <doctormo> IdleOne: +1 I'm currently dealing with a language barrier in a US projects, mostly Hispanic.
[14:27]  * doctormo explains that a 'projects' is a US term for a housing development/council estate.
[14:28] <paultag> doctormo: oh hahaha, right over my head
[14:28] <paultag> doctormo: I keep forgetting you live near southie
[14:28] <paultag> or in, I can't remember
[14:28] <doctormo> paultag: In, I'm not even near Dorchester ;-)
[14:28] <IdleOne> at the same time though I agree with czajkowski in that personal feelings about a group/team/project should not affect our decisions in passing on information.
[14:29] <popey> Tell that to RMS ☺
[14:29] <paultag> doctormo: :)
[14:29] <paultag> popey: oh look at that crafty smile ♥
[14:29] <popey> Yes!
[14:29] <popey> ♥
[14:29] <paultag> IdleOne: truth
[14:29] <czajkowski> I never ever ever want to deal with RMS as a speaker ever
[14:29] <paultag> → ←
[14:29] <IdleOne> I wish we could make everybody happy
[14:30] <paultag> I'd love to have RMS talk at me. He seems smart
[14:30] <czajkowski> paultag: watch him speak
[14:30] <IdleOne> talk at you?
[14:30] <czajkowski> picks his feet
[14:30] <paultag> I mean, homeby sat down homeless and wrote a F/OSS compiler
[14:30] <czajkowski> beard
[14:30] <popey> The only thing I think could have been done better with maco's survey was if she'd actually consulted loco-contacts _before_ sending the "Hey, fill my survey in" mail.
[14:30] <IdleOne> people who talk at me get ignored
[14:30] <czajkowski> puts his hands in his mouth
[14:30] <paultag> czajkowski: yeah I could see that
[14:30] <czajkowski> dear gods no
[14:30] <paultag> IdleOne: truth :)
[14:30] <czajkowski> never ever again will I go to listn to him
[14:30] <popey> and the loco council
[14:31] <paultag> hehehe
[14:31] <doctormo> paultag: You wouldn't like RMS, I don't think. He never understands what I'm saying and I have to speak like someone speaking to a little child for him to even comprehend the words.
[14:31] <paultag> popey: she poked me and she said something about the survay. I said i'd pass it onto my locos, but I think she was asking if it was OK
[14:31] <paultag> popey: so might be my fault there
[14:32] <IdleOne> popey: afaik this is the first survey of this type done, we learn, we make things better next time.
[14:32] <paultag> doctormo: hahaha
[14:32] <popey> IdleOne: not correct
[14:32] <popey> there is another survey running _right_ _not_ for the adverts team
[14:32] <doctormo> All power to survey 2.0!
[14:32] <popey> and we have done others
[14:32] <Pici> s/not/now/
[14:33] <popey> indeed
[14:33] <mhall119> popey: if she had taken it to loco-contact for discussion first, what would the likely outcome have been?
[14:33] <popey> mhall119: translation, more refined questions, clarity on where the data goes
[14:33] <paultag> mhall119: yelling, mostly. LC's usually pretty clear
[14:34] <paultag> or what popey said :)
[14:34] <mhall119> popey: and how long would that have taken?
[14:34]  * Pici just realized that Loco Council and cz<tab> have the same initials
[14:34] <popey> are you suggesting that we should put out substandard products in the name of expediency!?
[14:34]  * popey notes time based releases
[14:34] <mhall119> also, I think paultag's answer is fairly accurate
[14:34] <paultag> oh holy shaz, that's true
[14:34] <IdleOne> popey: We encourage people to go ahead and do the work if they see a need. I think maco took the initiative, contacted the people she thought were key and ran with it. same as the adverts team seems to have done.
[14:35] <mhall119> popey: release early, release often
[14:35] <jussi> http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2011/05/user-experience-survey.html <- the non adverts team survey blog post
[14:35] <czajkowski> Pici: I know very anoying also!
[14:35] <Pici> czajkowski: Must be
[14:35] <IdleOne> maco: for the next survey if you need help with translation to French let me know I will be glad to help :)
[14:35] <popey> IdleOne: yes, and I gave feedback last night, as did pleia2, which was ignored
[14:35] <czajkowski> Pici: why I have LC off highlight and loco council on highlight
[14:35] <doctormo> IdleOne: I agree, of course we do many things to self correct when we see problems with our actions too.
[14:35] <mhall119> in my experience, sending an inquiry to loco-contacts will end in silence 80% of the time, and arguing 19% of the time
[14:36] <popey> mhall119: I did say loco council too
[14:36] <IdleOne> doctormo: I believe maco sees our comments and she is taking the notes to do things differently next time.
[14:36] <paultag> popey: I think maco asked me on the side
[14:36] <mhall119> popey: the survey isn't specific to loco-teams is it?
[14:36] <doctormo> IdleOne: I believe so too.
[14:36] <maco> mhall119: no
[14:36] <paultag> popey: she said something about passing it on to locos and I said that would be a good idea
[14:36] <mhall119> I didn't think so
[14:36] <popey> mhall119: it was sent to loco contacts asking people to send to their loco teams.
[14:36] <maco> loco teams just seem like a good way to contact people who aren't plugged into Twitter & Planet Ubuntu constantly
[14:36] <mhall119> popey: right, because loco-contacts is the official way to get the word out to loco teams
[14:37] <popey> i give up
[14:37] <popey> forget I said anything.
[14:37] <IdleOne> asking the loco contacts to pass on the survey was a good way to make sure it got out to as many users as possible.
[14:37] <mhall119> I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your position
[14:37] <maco> popey: by that point it was already announced...
[14:37] <maco> which is why i put in on blog post that its a *different* survey
[14:38] <czajkowski> maco: perhaps it could have held off a week
[14:38] <maco> and i think on email as well
[14:38] <czajkowski> so as not to clash with the other survey out there is all as well
[14:38] <paultag> there's another survay on right now, right?
[14:38] <czajkowski> yes
[14:38] <paultag> +1 czajkowski
[14:38] <mhall119> I didn't take maco's survey yet, but the advertising one is very short
[14:39] <paultag> I took both
[14:39] <Pici> The usability survey is a few pages long, its much more in-depth that the advertising one.
[14:39] <paultag> aye
[14:41] <doctormo> paultag: So you're home tomorrow? How about those red sox?
[14:41] <paultag> doctormo: beat the indians here! I'm stoked!
[14:54] <AlanBell> the advertising survey has more respondents but asks fewer useful questions
[14:55] <AlanBell> it might have been better if there were not two surveys going on at the same time
[14:55] <AlanBell> I am now working with the adverts team to prevent them making outlandish and statistically invalid claims about their results
[14:56] <maco> heh
[14:56] <maco> you know that "ubuntu is for noobs" thing that people using other distros say, like using ubuntu would be beneath them?
[14:56] <paultag> AlanBell: ugh, yeah, please
[14:56] <maco> 88% of respondents so far said power user or computing professional
[14:56] <paultag> and keep in mind results are skewed
[14:56] <paultag> +1 mhall119
[14:56] <paultag> erm, maco
[14:57] <maco> yeah i know, reaching the-person-who-installed-it is easier than reaching the-person-they-installed-it-for
[14:57] <paultag> +1
[14:57] <AlanBell> paultag: yes, they are, but some people might believe that a bigger sample size means a fair sample (it doesn't)
[14:58] <paultag> AlanBell: truth!
[14:59] <AlanBell> my big issue is that they didn't think about what they wanted to do with the results before spewing it out, so they didn't ask questions that help make effective adverts
[14:59] <mhall119> paultag: you can +1 me too if you really want to
[14:59] <popey> yup AlanBell
[14:59] <paultag> +1 mhall119!
[14:59] <mhall119> :)
[15:03] <AlanBell> we also ran a survey for the accessibility team fwiw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Personas/Survey
[15:03] <AlanBell> I set up a wordpress based form for that one
[15:12] <nigelb> AlanBell: I talked to Daviey. He asked me to set up etherpad from the PPA and see if it works.  If it doesn't, we may have to update the PPA.  pad.ubuntu-uk.org is a git checkout, so more later version.
[15:12] <nigelb> I'm not sure if I can get to reinstalling etherpad today, I have a longish task list, so if you do beat me to it, let me know :)
[16:00] <jono> kim0, dpm all set?
[16:00] <dpm> jono, sure
[16:00] <kim0> yeah
[16:01] <jono> one sec, sound issues
[16:01] <jono> going to reboot
[16:01]  * kim0 hugs skype and pulseaudio
[16:02] <dpm> yeah kim0, better hug them, you never know when they might turn against you ;)
[16:03]  * nigelb hugs JFo
[16:03]  * JFo hugs nigelb 
[16:03] <JFo> :)
[16:03] <nigelb> JFo: Short and sweet email :D
[16:04] <JFo> oh heh, yeah :)
[16:04] <AlanBell> nigelb: mine was installed from the ppa
[16:05] <nigelb> AlanBell: Aha, and you can't get it working at all right?
[16:05]  * nigelb reports
[16:06] <AlanBell> nigelb: yeah, exactly the same as pad.ubuntu.com
[16:06] <nigelb> AlanBell: great, I'll work with kirkland to see if I can update the ppa with a newer version
[16:07] <AlanBell> cool, give me a shout when you want me to update and we can test there before messing with the live one
[16:09] <nigelb> AlanBell: yup. I'm running the upstream apt which needs fixing.
[20:37] <Technoviking> What is the name of wireframe design tool that I hace seen for Ubuntu mockups?
[20:42] <maco> Technoviking: pencil?
[20:47] <Technoviking> maco: yeah, is it a template for inkscape
[20:50] <jussi> Technoviking: you can also use balsamiq: http://balsamiq.com/products/mockups
[20:52] <maco> Technoviking: it's a proprietary UI design tool
[21:11] <Technoviking> maco: bummer
[21:15] <Pici> pleia2: around?
[21:19] <pleia2> Pici: yeah
[21:19] <Pici> pleia2: pm?
[21:19] <pleia2> sure
[21:22] <czajkowski> jono: call in 40 mins right
[21:23] <jono> czajkowski, nope, that is next week
[21:23] <jono> we talked last week
[21:25] <czajkowski> jono: yeah so i got confused with the mail
[21:25] <czajkowski> just checking as been on the jd for the last 3 hours
[21:25] <Pendulum> czajkowski: glad you've been doing something fun :P
[21:26] <czajkowski> Pendulum: yeah part 2 of going away night
[21:26] <jono> czajkowski, :-)
[21:26] <czajkowski> bbq and a bottle of jd
[21:26] <czajkowski> classy bird
[21:32] <czajkowski> Pendulum: random bbq rocks
[21:32] <popey> maco / czajkowski mhall119 apologies for being a grumpy grouch earlier with respect to the survey you've made. I realise now I was probably not being super helpful. Sorry.
[21:32]  * czajkowski hugs popey 
[21:32]  * maco hugs popey too
[21:32]  * mhall119 also hugs popey 
[21:32] <Pendulum> czajkowski: we all knew you were a classy bird :P
[21:32] <czajkowski> popey: you dont need to apologise at all
[21:33] <czajkowski> popey: i have foot in mouth syndrom
[21:33] <popey> maco: Hope you get useful data from it!
[21:33]  * popey goes to sit in front of the telly
[21:33] <maco> if anyone cares, it crossed the 1024 mark a few minutes back
[21:33] <maco> im getting *surprising* data
[21:33] <czajkowski> maco: that is fantastic news and well done
[21:34] <maco> but reaching avg users and "bad with computers" people is the sort of thing that takes the nerds who know about it going to their family/friends who use ubuntu, and asking them to take it
[21:34] <head_victim> maco: Oh it's you! I'm Jared from the Australian Loco, I was just about to send it to my loco list. Is there a link I can put into the email as well about who/what/where/when/why for those who like such details? I've done it and it looks pretty handy.
[21:34] <maco> so hopefully folks will do that
[21:35] <maco> head_victim: I did the make-google-do-stuff part with question suggestions from some folks here, IRC ops who see the support questions, and QA team people
[21:36] <head_victim> Ah ok so it's not a formal project, just something that would be useful to collate?
[21:36] <maco> the results, i'm intending to put at http://people.ubuntu.com/~maco.m/survey.html and thats also where translations of the survey will be linked
[21:36] <maco> well it's community-run instead of canonical-run, if that's what you mean
[21:37] <czajkowski> popey: you know what we all go through meh days I've had a month of them and seemignly my reply was less that good but i was being honest
[21:37] <czajkowski> at least for tonight i'm not looking at mail
[21:37] <czajkowski> the3 amout of jd i've had is not safe to go near email
[21:37] <czajkowski> :)
[21:38] <head_victim> maco: ah k, was sort of looking for a wiki page with the rational and who's using it for what but only because I was more curious myself as well
[21:38] <AlanBell> drunk people should use IRC only
[21:38] <maco> head_victim: there's stuff in there to interest bug triagers, accessibility team, QA team, loco council, etc.
[21:39] <maco> and there's been interest from members of those teams, so i dont think the results will just be thrown out
[21:39] <maco> (i'm in the bug & accessibility categories)
[21:39] <czajkowski> maco: well any feedback to the lc would be great please drop us an email ok
[21:40] <head_victim> maco: oh no, and don't think I wouldn't do it because of it I was just half curious for myself and half knowing that's what some will ask about
[21:40] <czajkowski> AlanBell: :)'
[21:40] <maco> czajkowski: yep. there's "where are you? how's the loco there? what sort of events do you prefer?" which should help the individual locos and you lot
[21:40] <czajkowski> maco: we;d love that feedback please
[21:40] <maco> of course
[21:41] <czajkowski> thank you
[21:43] <maco> for all that i dislike heavy math, i <3 making charts out of data
[21:43] <Pici> I love charts.
[21:43] <head_victim> I could play on spreadsheets all day long making pretty data sets and charts
[21:44] <maco> comparing audio, graphics, and peripheral support ratings gave me my first chance to use one of those area graphs (line graph with filled in underneath) that has stacking
[21:44] <doctormo> I just released, we could replace that funnel game from Star Trek Next Generation that they all get addicted to, with Farmville and they'd be prophetic! ;-)