[15:57] <NCommander> Morning all
[15:58]  * janimo waves
[15:58] <Guest40648> G'day NCommander
[15:59] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[15:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
[15:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110526
[16:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110526
[16:00] <NCommander> *is having some issues with the wiki and 500 errors*
[16:00] <NCommander> There are no action items from last meeting so ...
[16:00] <NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
[16:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
[16:00] <NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
[16:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
[16:01] <ogra_> still lots missing
[16:01] <NCommander> and of course the WI tracker doesn't see any of my specs
[16:01] <ogra_> but davidm said he would do an approval round
[16:02] <ogra_> NCommander, they need to be approved first
[16:02] <Guest40648> Yep I want to to approvals today
[16:02] <ogra_> and have a prio
[16:02] <ogra_> and indeed need to be assigned to oneiric
[16:02] <ogra_> i see 6 for NCommander btw :)
[16:03] <NCommander> yeah, a number thats bound to go up :-(
[16:03] <ogra_> yes
[16:03] <GrueMaster> I see none for me.  Yippie!
[16:03] <ogra_> heh
[16:03] <NCommander> I sent a list of all the server specs to davidm. With the exception of the security/entropy one, they're all drafted and ready for review
[16:03] <ogra_> you have at least two items on my specs
[16:03] <GrueMaster> damn.  :(
[16:03] <ogra_> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~davidm?searchtext=o-arm
[16:04] <ogra_> that should be all our specs
[16:04] <ogra_> if anything is missing we need to fix that
[16:04]  * ogra_ sees david has fun with nickserv
[16:05] <NCommander> I don't think there's anything else on burndown charts
[16:06] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[16:06] <ogra_> well, action; everyone get their specs in the right state
[16:06] <ogra_> before end of the week
[16:06]  * ogra_ guesses release team wants to review in the release meeting tomorrow
[16:06] <NCommander> [action] everyone to get their specs in proper shape before end of the week
[16:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone to get their specs in proper shape before end of the week
[16:06] <ogra_> NCommander, we too that one out btw
[16:07] <ogra_> unity-2d is desktop team now
[16:07]  * ogra_ though we discussed that last week)
[16:07] <davidm_> See if I stay davidm this time
[16:07] <ogra_> heh
[16:07] <ogra_> just be nice to nickserv :)
[16:07] <davidm_> sometimes nickserv hates me
[16:08] <NCommander> flower and candy are a good way to sooth rough feelings
[16:08] <ogra_> heh
[16:08] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
[16:08] <ogra_> davidm_, since you missed it
 well, action; everyone get their specs in the right state
 before end of the week
[16:08] <ogra_> ACTION received:  everyone to get their specs in proper shape before end of the week
[16:08] <ogra_> davidm_, i suspect the release team will want to review
[16:08] <davidm_> Actually I need to get to it today as today is the deadline
[16:08] <rsalveti> bug 770679 is now fixed commited
[16:09] <ogra_> so we need to get them ready before meeting
[16:09] <rsalveti> only major change for kernel
[16:09] <rsalveti> still long way to hit the archive
[16:09]  * ppisati is here too
[16:09] <ogra_> rsalveti, thats .proposed though
[16:09] <ogra_> any oneiric news you want to share ?
[16:09] <rsalveti> ogra_: not yet proposed
[16:10] <ogra_> well, will be :)
[16:10] <ppisati> nothing i'm aware off: at last TI call someone mentioned a .39 tree, wwaiting for it to appear
[16:10] <janimo> omap4 still remains a separate source for O ?
[16:10] <ppisati> yes
[16:11] <ppisati> still a topic branch
[16:11] <ogra_> yup
[16:11] <ppisati> we will cherry pick CVE and stable updates from master
[16:11] <ppisati> no rebase (unfrotunately)
[16:11] <ogra_> until mainline is on par feature wise
[16:11] <ppisati> actually i'll try (but since ompa4 is so big i'm pretty sure i'll fail)
[16:12] <ppisati> btw, can anyone add me to the invitation of the weekly TI conf call?
[16:12] <ogra_> ppisati, talk to ndec in #ubuntu-arm
[16:12] <ogra_> he owns the invitation iirc
[16:12] <ppisati> ok
[16:13] <ogra_> NCommander, move ?
[16:13] <davidm_> ppisati, done, you are added
[16:13] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[16:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[16:14] <ppisati> davidm_: thanks
[16:14] <janimo> nothing here
[16:14]  * NCommander hides in fear of the FTBFS list
[16:14] <janimo> a bit of bug triaging in the KInaro Jam
[16:14] <ogra_> 31 packages in main isnt that bad
[16:14] <janimo> the nasty oes from natty are still here
[16:15] <janimo> as they are upstream issues
[16:15] <ogra_> only 8 arm specific
[16:15] <NCommander> true
[16:15] <NCommander> and some of that seems to be ghc blew up
[16:15] <ogra_> dbus, upstart and libnih look serious
[16:15] <NCommander> yeah
[16:16] <ogra_> i gave back dbus and upstart already
[16:16] <ogra_> and the failures are weird segfaults
[16:16] <janimo> ld segfaults iirc
[16:16] <NCommander> Great
[16:16] <ogra_> yep
[16:16] <NCommander> Has anyone reproduced out of the data center?
[16:16] <janimo> same in chromium
[16:16] <ogra_> do we know if anyone is inspecting that on the toolchain side ?
[16:17] <janimo> Linaro know about it, I am not sure what the status is
[16:17] <ogra_> oh, also note that we will switch seeds this release
[16:17] <GrueMaster> Buh???
[16:17] <janimo> to ubuntu-desktop?
[16:17] <ogra_> so look at the desktop seed once the first images roll in
[16:17] <ogra_> right
[16:17] <GrueMaster> ok
[16:17] <ogra_> netbook will go away
[16:18] <NCommander> ogra_: do you want to follow up with Linaro w.r.t. binutils segfaults?
[16:18] <janimo> so our images get larger as well? will we ship the same ubuntu desktop metapackage?
[16:18] <ogra_> NCommander, well, would at least be good to know a bugnumber
[16:19] <ogra_> janimo, do you know if there is one (since you seem to know that linaro knows about it)
[16:19] <davidm_> We might need to make our own  seed, I don'think we want all of desktop on ARM
[16:20] <ogra_> thats fine
[16:20] <janimo> ogra_, no idea, I just saw it discussed on #linaro
[16:20] <ogra_> we can do per-arch excludes
[16:20] <ogra_> no need for an extra seed
[16:20] <ogra_> NCommander, then put an action item on for me
[16:20] <janimo> did  not follow FTBFS lately as it seemed there were large rebuilds and I was waiting for it to settle down
[16:20] <NCommander> [action] ogra to trim down desktop seed on ARM
[16:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to trim down desktop seed on ARM
[16:20] <ogra_> NCommander, ??
[16:20] <NCommander> ogra_: what?
[16:21] <ogra_> "<NCommander> ogra_: do you want to follow up with Linaro w.r.t. binutils segfaults?"
[16:21] <NCommander> oh
[16:21] <ogra_> i was referring to that one
[16:21] <NCommander> wrong followup :-P
[16:21] <ogra_> i dont need an action item for my day to day work :P
[16:21] <NCommander> [action] ogra to follow up with Linaro on binutils segfault
[16:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to follow up with Linaro on binutils segfault
[16:21] <GrueMaster> Hard to follow the multiple topics of the meeting.
[16:21]  * ogra_ has nothing else for ftbfs
[16:22] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (NCommander, ogra)
[16:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (NCommander, ogra)
[16:22] <ogra_> dead
[16:22] <ogra_> but i think cjwatson built the first x86 images today
[16:22] <janimo> eta for live helper?
[16:22]  * NCommander is making funeral perperations :-(
[16:22] <ogra_> so it shouldnt be long anymore
[16:22] <ogra_> and its still 2 weeks to A1
[16:22] <NCommander> then we get to re-implement evertyhing for l-h
[16:22] <cjwatson> yesterday
[16:22] <ogra_> so chances are good we can make it
[16:23] <GrueMaster> I estimate image availability the day before A1.
[16:23] <cjwatson> janimo: not necessarily for a1
[16:23] <ogra_> cjwatson, wohoo
[16:23] <cjwatson> still using livecd-rootfs for now
[16:23] <ogra_> ah
[16:23] <ogra_> when do you plan the final switch ?
[16:23] <cjwatson> when it's ready
[16:23] <ogra_> heh
[16:23] <GrueMaster> good plan.
[16:23] <ogra_> k
[16:23] <NCommander> I don't think their is much mor eon this point
[16:24] <cjwatson> if I can make it before a1, I will, but I'm not promising anything
[16:24] <ogra_> k
[16:24] <NCommander> thanks cjwatson
[16:24] <cjwatson> the CD image cron jobs are back on now
[16:25] <GrueMaster> wrt netboot images, make sure we have both uImage/uInitrd & vmlinuz/initrd.img available
[16:25] <NCommander> \o/
[16:25] <ogra_> so we should have something to test (if it builds)
[16:25] <cjwatson> so unless GrueMaster knows something I don't, they should build tomorrow
[16:25] <ogra_> GrueMaster, will do
[16:25] <ogra_> GrueMaster, i also plan a "mini iso" as well
[16:25] <GrueMaster> I'm just speaking from experience as the QA guy that has last minute image testing to do...always.
[16:25] <NCommander> anything else on this subject or can I move on?
[16:25] <GrueMaster> :P
[16:26] <ogra_> move
[16:26]  * NCommander moves to New York
[16:26] <NCommander> :-P
[16:26] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[16:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[16:26] <ogra_> haha
[16:26] <GrueMaster> Hey, that's me.  Isn't that special.
[16:26] <GrueMaster> Work continues on usbboot.
[16:26] <ogra_> wowie
[16:27] <GrueMaster> Issues still with aboot, but we have enough to enable the buildd farm.
[16:27] <ogra_> GrueMaster, btw, it would be good to know if there is a usb0 after boot
[16:27] <ogra_> then we wouldnt need the conventional network for netcatting the tarball but could pull it via usbnet
[16:27] <GrueMaster> There is.  Networking and usb ports both function (My keyboard/mouse is on one, usb drive on the other).
[16:27] <ogra_> i mean a usbnet device
[16:28] <ogra_> (the g_ether module being loaded)
[16:28] <ogra_> well, lets discuss that offline
[16:28] <GrueMaster> Missing are mmc and reboot.  mmc is mia, reboot causes the kernel to hang at the end with message:  Rebooting.
[16:28] <ogra_> hmpf
[16:28] <GrueMaster> Oh, that requires musb to work.
[16:28] <ogra_> we dont need mmc so i dont care
[16:28] <GrueMaster> Which it doesn't.
[16:29] <ogra_> in kernel ?
[16:29] <GrueMaster> I need mmc for automation testing.
[16:29] <ogra_> hmm, i thought that worked
[16:29] <GrueMaster> Nope.
[16:29] <ogra_> gar
[16:29] <ogra_> k, then its conventional network, sad
[16:29] <ppisati> IIRC musb is broken upstream
[16:29] <ogra_> usb would have been sexier
[16:29] <ppisati> since .38.x where i don't remeber the x
[16:30] <GrueMaster> musb has never worked in .38 that I know of.
[16:30] <GrueMaster> Last worked in .35.
[16:30] <GrueMaster> iirc.
[16:30] <ogra_> well
[16:30] <ogra_> moot discussion then
[16:31] <GrueMaster> Back to usbboot.  I am very concerned about the copyright issues with the source.
[16:31] <ogra_> well, for internal use thats a non issue
[16:31] <ogra_> for packaging it thats a disaster
[16:31] <GrueMaster> Right.
[16:32] <ogra_> did you start conversation with upstream ?
[16:32] <NCommander> ogra_: w.r.t. to copyright, if the code is invalid, we can't use it, internatl or not.
[16:33] <GrueMaster> For initial deployment, I should have it working fully by eod tomorrow.  For packaging and future automation, I am looking to do a rewrite, at least for the host side.  Not much to it, shouldn't take too long (2-3 days max).
[16:33] <ogra_> NCommander, as long as we dont distribute it ...
[16:33] <NCommander> ogra_: I'm not going to argue specifics during this meeting, but I'll be glad to discuss in private
[16:34] <ogra_> sure
[16:34] <GrueMaster> The mods needed for immediate deployment are fairly trivial and can be pushed upstream.
[16:35] <NCommander> can I move on?
[16:35] <GrueMaster> I am also gearing up to review lava for our use.
[16:35] <GrueMaster> Currently, it will not work with our images.  Looking to see what modifications need to be in place for that.
[16:35] <GrueMaster> Done.
[16:36] <davidm_> I'm sure we can sort license issues, I'm in contact with upstream
[16:36] <NCommander> [topic] AOB]
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB]
[16:36] <ogra_> is it a requirement that all images get tested with lava ?
[16:36] <ogra_> or could we just define a certain set of i.e. images that work ootb
[16:36]  * ogra_ could imagine the mini iso might work just fine 
[16:37] <ogra_> or any other alternate ones
[16:37] <GrueMaster> I was told to get lava working on some of our images.  headless & server are prime candidates.
[16:37] <ogra_> well, mini iso with server preseed file should get you that
[16:37] <ogra_> it can test isos too, right ?
[16:38] <GrueMaster> no.
[16:38] <ogra_> (i mean for x86)
[16:38] <ogra_> err
[16:38] <GrueMaster> It currently works with linaro style images & hw packs.
[16:38] <ogra_> why the heck are we forced to use it then ? i thought its the "save the world" solution for all image testing automation
[16:38]  * ogra_ wasnt aware thats only used for linaro tarballs
[16:38] <GrueMaster> Not my call.  Way beyond my pay grade.
[16:39] <ogra_> hmpf
[16:39] <ogra_> then i dont understand the hype
[16:39] <GrueMaster> That's why it is called the Linaro Automated Validation App.
[16:39] <ogra_> right, still i thought the plan was to have all images tested on it
[16:40] <GrueMaster> The front end is pretty good.  It is the back end that needs rework.  Unfortunately, it is all combined in one atm.
[16:40] <GrueMaster> It isn't modular.
[16:40] <ogra_> oh, like livecd-rootfs :)
[16:40] <GrueMaster> Never having seen that, I can only guess.
[16:40]  * ogra_ likes non modular after looking at live-build today :P )
[16:41] <ogra_> anyway, no more questions for QA here
[16:41] <GrueMaster> You want modular, but in an intelligent way.
[16:42] <GrueMaster> Otherwise we would be stuck with a hugh kernel binary that loaded every driver under the sun.
[16:42]  * ogra_ doesnt want too modular :)
[16:42]  * NCommander would rather just refactor livecd-rootfs into modules
[16:42] <NCommander> :-P
[16:42] <ogra_> NCommander, ++++++++++++
[16:42] <ogra_> +++
[16:42] <ogra_> and +
[16:42] <GrueMaster> The proper way to do it is with libraries and function calls.
[16:42] <ogra_> but i guess we cant have that pony
[16:42] <GrueMaster> At least that was what I did in my old days of automation development.
[16:43] <ogra_> well, for shell scripts thats different :)
[16:43] <GrueMaster> Not just shell scripts.
[16:43] <ogra_> i agree for C code though ...
[16:43] <ogra_> but we somehow get offtopic :)
[16:44] <GrueMaster> I'm done unless someone has other questions on QA.
[16:44] <NCommander> anything got anything else?
[16:45] <NCommander> if not, I'll close the meeting
[16:45] <ogra_> go for it
[16:45] <NCommander> closing in 3
[16:45] <NCommander> 2
[16:45] <NCommander> 1
[16:45] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[16:45] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:45.
[16:45] <ogra_> and dont call me anything :P
[16:46] <NCommander> er
[16:46] <NCommander> anyone
[16:46] <NCommander> wow
[16:46] <ogra_> :)
[16:48] <rsalveti> ogra_: we should be able to test ubuntu images on lava
[16:48] <rsalveti> it's linaro but it can be more generic
[16:48] <rsalveti> if it's not supported yet it's just because nobody created the support
[16:48] <rsalveti> but it'll probably be there
[16:48] <ogra_> right
[16:48] <rsalveti> pplars can answer your questions on this
[16:49] <ogra_> i was expecting that it already supports a wider range of images if we switvch the whole testing framework
[16:49] <ogra_> but apparently that needs to grow first :)
[17:47] <ubuser> can someone help me? i tried to install grub2
[17:47] <ubuser> and now my pc wont boot, it says grub error 15
[17:47] <ubuser> is there anyway around this from boot screen?
[17:48] <davidcalle> ubuser: hi, this channel is dedicated to team meetings, you should ask this question in #ubuntu.
[17:48] <smartere> Hello there
[17:48] <ubuser> yea, i got booted from the others
[17:48] <ubuser> please help me.
[17:49] <ubuser> ive been having problems after problems and they just dont like me
[17:49] <ubuser> idk what to do anymore
[17:49] <ubuser> i cannot get my pc running
[17:49] <davidcalle> ubuser, you can try to ask on #omg!ubuntu!
[17:49] <ubuser> ty
[17:51] <ubuser> b4 i reload, again..
[18:00] <Technoviking> are folks here for the Ubuntu Power User meeting
[18:01] <Omega> o/
[18:01] <xdatap1> \o/
[18:01] <toros> .o/
[18:01] <Technoviking> awesome
[18:01] <Technoviking> #startmeeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is Technoviking.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:02] <Technoviking> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Meeting
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Meeting
[18:02] <Technoviking> there is the agenda
[18:03] <Technoviking> [TOPIC] Organization of the team
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Organization of the team
[18:04] <Technoviking> So this team is pretty new and we are still getting our bearing
[18:05] <Technoviking> We have done alot of work on our wiki
[18:07] <Technoviking> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers
[18:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers
[18:07] <Technoviking> but I think the key thing we need to work on is goual for the next cycle
[18:07] <Technoviking> s/goual/goals
[18:08] <Technoviking> first off, low hanging fruit
[18:09] <Technoviking> We have been working on getting useful Unity quicklist in to the Ubuntu 11.10 base install
[18:09] <Technoviking> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Quicklists
[18:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Quicklists
[18:09] <Technoviking> what else can we help with this?
[18:10] <Technoviking> I guess first off, I shall have asked if everyone know what the team vision is?
[18:11] <Omega> Clarify on that (so we are all on the same page).
[18:12] <Technoviking> yes?
[18:13] <snap-l> Please state the vision. :)
[18:25] <LaserJock> Technoviking: does that make sense?
[18:25] <Miles-Prower> The guy trying to make Unity run on his Eee701 (CPU @ 600MHz)
[18:26] <Technoviking> LaserJock: yes
[18:26] <Technoviking> but we need to focus on clear actionable goals
[18:26] <LaserJock> Technoviking: yes, thats the next step
[18:26] <Technoviking> LaserJock: so, what do you suggest
[18:27] <LaserJock> well, we have 3 fronts, right, Docs, Tools, Communicate
[18:27] <jono> apologies for being silent, currently doing a job interview for my team
[18:27] <Technoviking> maco: also I think we need to think Ubuntu on this team as derivative generic
[18:28] <LaserJock> I'm thinking it would be good to start of by picking maybe 3-5 actionable (low-hanging fruit?) things to do in each category
[18:28] <Technoviking> there power users on Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Studio, etc...
[18:29] <LaserJock> in Tools, there is discussion about Ubuntu Tweak and other such tools and how to get them ready for the archives
[18:29] <Omega> Technoviking: That's what I have been trying to say, but didn't want to clutter the meeting up more, so I just dropped it.
[18:29] <Technoviking> The dev of Ubuntu Tweak joined our mailing list
[18:29] <LaserJock> yes, good start
[18:30] <LaserJock> I think an analysis of Ubuntu Tweak
[18:30] <Technoviking> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTweak
[18:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTweak
[18:30] <LaserJock> a  Power Users Bug Day
[18:30] <xdatap1> Technoviking, I agree with derivates. And also, a power user may be interested in mixing technologies from different platforms. Yesterday I tried plasma-desktop over unity, it was fun :)
[18:31] <LaserJock> and then we need to liaison with MOTU to figure out what needs to be done
[18:31] <Technoviking> so, I think the next version of Ubuntu Tweak will have a plugin feature, so the PPA part the prgram can been an spearate install in the next version.
[18:32] <LaserJock> a plugin system will be a major help
[18:32] <Technoviking> do we have in MOTU/core-devs on the poweruser team yet
[18:32] <LaserJock> I'm former core dev but a bit rusty
[18:32] <maco> LaserJock: you expired?
[18:33] <LaserJock> yes, I let it go
[18:33] <Technoviking> LaserJock: would you be willing to work with tualatrix@gmail.com and be that liaasion
[18:33] <Technoviking> I can help as needed
[18:34] <LaserJock> maybe, I think maybe we need to cross that bridge when we get there
[18:34] <LaserJock> I think Ubuntu Tweak still needs some work, I think it's good to focus on getting the code in shape
[18:35] <LaserJock> the packaging will fall into place pretty easily once that is done
[18:36] <LaserJock> Ubuntu Tweak does a lot of stuff
[18:36] <LaserJock> I think it really needs some analysis
[18:36] <Omega> Maybe we can start documenting the various configuration options that are available (in dconf)
[18:36] <LaserJock> for safety and stability
[18:37] <LaserJock> It killed my Unity and did some funky things on me the other day
[18:37] <LaserJock> so I want to see the 100+ bugs looked at
[18:38] <Technoviking> LaserJock: We should add that info to the tweak wiki
[18:39] <Technoviking> What actions do people suggest we can work on now
[18:40] <toros> LaserJock: have you tried the stable or a development version of ubuntu tweak?
[18:40] <LaserJock> stable I think
[18:40] <LaserJock> whatever is on their site
[18:40] <LaserJock> Technoviking: do we know if trualatrix wants help with the plugin system?
[18:40] <Omega> Well, the documentation of the various configuration options we have available (we need this info to integrate it into a pretty GUI configurator anyway)
[18:41] <Technoviking> He is looking for people to write plugins
[18:41] <toros> he asked for help in creating the unity plugin
[18:41] <LaserJock> it seems to me that the plugin system and plugin writing/analysis would be top priorities
[18:42] <xdatap1> Technoviking, I agree with Omega, we need to document what we can configure on unity. Also what we would like to configure. IE: launcher background color and alpha is not configurable afaik
[18:42] <LaserJock> I would favor essentially starting with a blank slate and adding plugins as they are found to be stable and meeting Use Cases
[18:43] <cprofitt> just got back from doing a trouble ticket -- I am curious what low hanging non-technical items need to be tackled?
[18:43] <LaserJock> On the documentation front, I agree with Omega and xdatap1,  a good set of documentation on Unity would be great
[18:43] <agrundner> I'm getting the feeling that this ubuntu power user idea is morphing into something unexpected and possibly unwieldy. Looking forward to seeing an outline of the scope of this project.
[18:43] <LaserJock> keyboard shortcuts, what options exist and what they actually do
[18:43] <cprofitt> +1 xdatap1 -- documenting what can be done would be a good idea... and one I could put some people to work on as well as do myself
[18:44] <toros> LaserJock: we already have many documentation on Ask Ubuntu
[18:44] <LaserJock> some yes
[18:44] <Omega> agrundner: Now is your chance to influence it, speak up! :)
[18:44] <LaserJock> but Ask Ubuntu is not, IMO, a documentation source
[18:44] <maco> LaserJock++
[18:44] <Technoviking> is the doc team working on Unity docs
[18:45] <LaserJock> maco: I would also like to see some documentation maybe on the KDE side
[18:45] <toros> is there anything that isn't documented on Ask Ubuntu regarding Unity?
[18:45] <LaserJock> yes
[18:45] <LaserJock> like what the heck some of the options actually mean/do
[18:45] <maco> LaserJock: ive kinda got the impression it doesnt exist...like..at all
[18:45] <Omega> I'm not exactly sold on this "one configurator to rule them all" idea. Is that not why we have gsettings?
[18:45] <LaserJock> Omega: I agree
[18:45] <Omega> Err, dconf-editor.
[18:45] <maco> LaserJock: nixternal used to write kubuntu docs but he's been busy the last year and a team hasnt really formed around it
[18:45] <LaserJock> well
[18:46] <LaserJock> I'm not saying kubuntu docs
[18:46] <Technoviking> there can be multiple, but "support one" is a good idea
[18:46] <maco> LaserJock: and based on what happens every time i try the help menu in any app in kubuntu, either there are no docs upstream or for some reason we dont put them on the iso
[18:46] <LaserJock> I mean Kubuntu Power User docs, which I don't know if they really exist or not
[18:46] <agrundner> "kitchen sink" app to tweak your desktop and Unity defaults: cool. #ubuntu-power-user channel to exchange tips and experiences: cool. Wiki for XYZ outside of kitchen sink's capabilities: potentially become a mess and overlap previous wiki documentation items.
[18:46] <LaserJock> well, you don't have to put a GUI on *every* option
[18:46] <cprofitt> askubunut is a good place to look for help if you know what you are looking for... but some folks want to know what is possible and would not know what to search for
[18:47] <Technoviking> I think the power user wiki is a good place to centralize the docs, maybe get it into help.ubuntu.com at a later date
[18:48] <LaserJock> I still have no idea what "Fade on bfb and Slide" means in the Hide Animation option in Unity
[18:48] <LaserJock> for instance :-)
[18:48] <cprofitt> Technoviking: I think having the wiki point at askubuntu is ok too, but having a centralized place to document the 'cool power options' is good
[18:48] <Technoviking> So do we want to make a overall Unity Guide a action item for the next few month
[18:48] <toros> LaserJock: http://askubuntu.com/questions/29553/how-can-i-configure-unity
[18:49] <toros> "Fade on bfb and Slide - fades based on the position of your cursor in the bfb (big funny button - the one in the top left of your panel with the Ubuntu circle of friends on it) and slides."
[18:49] <toros> It's already documented :)
[18:49] <LaserJock> no
[18:49] <LaserJock> that's not documented
[18:50] <LaserJock> thats somewhere on the net where I never found it ;-)
[18:50] <LaserJock> it doesn't do me any good if I don't know it exists
[18:50] <LaserJock> that's the point of a centralized "go to" place
[18:50] <cprofitt> LaserJock: +1
[18:50] <cprofitt> it makes it easy for us to 'document it' since all we have to do is point to it
[18:50] <Technoviking> +1 here
[18:50] <LaserJock> in other words, Ask Ubuntu is great for information
[18:51] <LaserJock> not so great for documentation
[18:51] <Technoviking> LaserJock: agree
[18:51] <toros> cprofitt: it is already linked at our wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Documentation
[18:51] <cprofitt> toros: awesome!
[18:51] <toros> should we make a copy&paste session, and copy&paste everything from ask ubuntu into a wiki?
[18:52] <LaserJock> well, and organize and prettify it
[18:52] <LaserJock> but I think it would be a good idea personally
[18:52] <Technoviking> DO we want to make a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Documentation/UnityGuide page, to organize just the UNity info and make it an easy link to sahre
[18:52] <LaserJock> sounds good to me
[18:52] <agrundner> Not sure what happened there... sorry if I missed any responses.
[18:52] <xdatap1> Technoviking, +1
[18:53] <Technoviking> [action] create an UnityGuide page on the wiki
[18:53] <MootBot> ACTION received:  create an UnityGuide page on the wiki
[18:53] <LaserJock> I would like to see pages for the different use cases too
[18:54] <agrundner> LaserJock: there should be a UnityGuide in the official docs, no?
[18:54] <LaserJock> what official docs?
[18:54] <cprofitt> usecases would be a good idea as well
[18:55] <toros> personally, I am not really a fan of forking an already existing documentation...
[18:55] <Technoviking> agrundner: help.ubuntu.com
[18:55] <Technoviking> ?
[18:55] <agrundner> LaserJock: sorry, in the non-poweruser ubuntu wiki
[18:55] <LaserJock> well, it might go there when it's done
[18:55] <toros> I think it is better to spend our time on improving the already existing one rather than copying it
[18:56] <LaserJock> toros: I would see Ask Ubuntu as a starting point
[18:56] <agrundner> toros: that's kind of my point
[18:57] <Technoviking> I think have a Unity section of the docs section would help the wider community,
[18:57] <LaserJock> docs generally undergo  a few stages of development
[18:57] <LaserJock> information -> Work In Progress/feedback -> publication
[18:57] <agrundner> Technoviking: exactly... there should be a general documentation as a base and then a power user wiki page for tweaks/overrides
[18:58] <LaserJock> Ask Ubuntu is (information), the Power User wiki would be (Work in Progress), and help.ubuntu.com would be (Publication)
[18:59] <toros> LaserJock: what about things like custom quicklists, lenses, etc.? Should they be included in the documentation? (add this PPA, install that package...)
[19:00] <LaserJock> most likely yes, if they reach stability
[19:00] <Technoviking> so, we need to close out, out two goals are duction an unity section and working with Ubuntu Tweak dev and help get his program into the archive for Ubuntu 11.10
[19:01] <LaserJock> when should the next meeting be?
[19:01] <Technoviking> same time next month, or should we switch times
[19:02] <cprofitt> as difficult as it is for me to do this during work -- I think stable meeting times are better than rotating
[19:02] <cprofitt> rotating tends to cause confusion
[19:02] <LaserJock> would it be worth setting up a time "poll" to see what most people want?
[19:03] <LaserJock> I just usually pick morning US/evening Europe
[19:03] <LaserJock> but it stinks for East Asia
[19:03] <xdatap1> maybe a poll in doodle for checking in which timezone lives most of the members?
[19:03] <Technoviking> xdatap1:  could you set that up
[19:03] <xdatap1> Technoviking, sure, no problem
[19:04] <Technoviking> thanks
[19:04] <agrundner> FYI, I was confused about the location of the meeting. The channel message #ubuntu-power-users makes it sounds like it was going to be held there
[19:04] <Technoviking> ok , sorry I have to go
[19:04] <Technoviking> the meeting should take place in #ubuntu-meeting always
[19:04] <xdatap1> Technoviking, bye and thanks for this meeting
[19:05] <LaserJock> thanks Technoviking
[19:05] <Technoviking> #endmeeting
[19:05] <LaserJock> thanks everybody
[19:05] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:05.