| MarkDude | So with Unity- can you change the upper bar? Or is that not on the list? | 05:31 |
|---|---|---|
| MarkDude | So DarkwingDuck tell me more about Kubuntu 11.04 | 05:47 |
| * MarkDude has tried Unity, would like to see what else is out there | 05:47 | |
| sn9 | didn't you see him demo kde 4.6 at SCaLE? | 05:48 |
| MarkDude | Um no. | 05:50 |
| MarkDude | I was at Partimus booth the whole time | 05:50 |
| MarkDude | almost | 05:51 |
| MarkDude | I had not tried Unity til today- next up is Fedora 15- I have not heard good things about it- we will see | 05:52 |
| nhaines | The "upper bar" is called the Unity panel. | 05:52 |
| MarkDude | Then again - I heard horrible stuff about unity- and its not what I was expecting | 05:52 |
| MarkDude | ty nhaines | 05:52 |
| MarkDude | :) | 05:52 |
| MarkDude | Better than me calling it the Start bar- lol | 05:53 |
| * MarkDude heard the icons on the left could not be changed easily- its easy enough to add stuff to it | 05:53 | |
| MarkDude | Runs smoothly, this will most likely incredible by next release. It is waaaay farther along than I expected it to be. Everyone that worked on this should be very proud of themselves | 05:55 |
| broder | MarkDude: i had a hard time figuring this out, but click-hold on an icon will loose it from the launcher | 05:58 |
| broder | then you can drag it around easily | 05:58 |
| MarkDude | The way it disembodies the top part of a window is a bit weird, but could see how the goal is to be as efficient with space as possible | 05:58 |
| MarkDude | broder, but I cant pin it to the Unity Bar or the desktop? | 05:59 |
| broder | unity bar == panel? you can't do that. you can put .desktop files on your desktop just like you always could, but you have to get it from somewhere other than the launcher | 05:59 |
| MarkDude | I was hoping to have my xchat be on the upper part of my screen | 06:00 |
| MarkDude | so to workaround this- I can use balloon notifications or sumthin' similar? | 06:01 |
| broder | sorry, i think you've just exhausted my unity expertise | 06:01 |
| MarkDude | No stress- broder | 06:05 |
| MarkDude | your knowledge has helped | 06:05 |
| MarkDude | I saw how when I did that- it held a space in the icon menu | 06:08 |
| MarkDude | Well it appears that Unity will get at least a decent review on my blog. Not like Im late to the party or anything | 06:22 |
| MarkDude | What IRC clients are people using to get notifications? Pidgin? | 06:26 |
| MarkDude | Unity has found some bizarre ways to lock up | 18:00 |
| MarkDude | How can I kill a process? | 18:01 |
| * MarkDude is guessing that terminal is now it | 18:01 | |
| * MarkDude no likey | 18:07 | |
| kdub | i havent made the jump to unity yet | 18:08 |
| MarkDude | Looks like it would be great on a notebook | 18:08 |
| kdub | that was my sentiment too, when i tried it. a 26'/19' desktop though... | 18:08 |
| * MarkDude is kinda regretting it now. Luckily it was just an extra partition | 18:08 | |
| kdub | i have like kde,gnome,unity, and xfce installed | 18:09 |
| kdub | upgrading to unity though really did a number on my sister's gnome install | 18:09 |
| MarkDude | I f I use the analogy of this being Vista- and the next release being Win7- in NOOO way am I implying it is bad | 18:11 |
| MarkDude | More that this will be great when some bugs are sorted out | 18:11 |
| * MarkDude had the bar on the left lock up- *halfway* open | 18:12 | |
| MarkDude | halfway closed | 18:12 |
| kdub | like, its tough to drop a new desktop environment and just go | 18:12 |
| kdub | most the other ones i can think of organically grew until someone decided its worth it to center a distro around | 18:13 |
| broder | MarkDude: unlike win 7, at least, you won't have to wait 2.5 years for oneiric :-P | 18:13 |
| MarkDude | lol | 18:13 |
| MarkDude | True broder that is why I dont really like the analogy- but for my purposes- I dont see the benefit at this point | 18:14 |
| MarkDude | So how am I allowed to look at my other partitions? | 18:14 |
| philipballew | MarkDude, the question though, is will unity make Linux as a whole better even if some people dislike it | 18:15 |
| broder | Disk Utility? | 18:15 |
| broder | MarkDude: I don't feel like I'm getting any benefit out of Unity at the moment, but it also isn't really getting in my way personally, so I'll keep using it | 18:15 |
| MarkDude | These lockups are a hassle | 18:17 |
| * MarkDude wonders if it is Compiz and my machine | 18:17 | |
| MarkDude | Yep= disk utility works | 18:18 |
| MarkDude | So right click appears to be being deprecated? | 18:19 |
| MarkDude | Like its bad or sumthin'? | 18:19 |
| * MarkDude needs to go find his one button Mac Mouse | 18:19 | |
| broder | it is? there's plenty of stuff to right click on my machine | 18:19 |
| MarkDude | Sure | 18:20 |
| MarkDude | there are all sorts of places I can no longer do so | 18:20 |
| broder | i know the indicators in particular treat right/left clicks the same | 18:20 |
| MarkDude | I mean - is there a substantive reason I cant add indicators? | 18:20 |
| broder | but that was part of the design behind them - eliminating confusion about how to interact with the notification area, since different apps would do different things when they used GtkStatusIcon | 18:20 |
| MarkDude | I can see VLC is not integrated so well | 18:21 |
| broder | indicators are an application thing, not a user thing - you could modify the application in question to have an indicator :) | 18:21 |
| * MarkDude just wants to add stuff to the Unity bar on top- I mean- what harm would that do - if I CHOOSE to do so? | 18:21 | |
| * MarkDude wants to add kill process | 18:22 | |
| MarkDude | as well as having xchat up there | 18:22 |
| * MarkDude understands why much of this was done | 18:28 | |
| * MarkDude cant understand why much of this stuff cant be under and *advanced settings* tab | 18:28 | |
| MarkDude | So there must be a vision behind this | 18:28 |
| nhaines | Because it runs counter to the design philosophy of Unity. | 18:29 |
| MarkDude | personalization? | 18:29 |
| nhaines | Random applets with no standardized interaction. | 18:29 |
| * MarkDude got into Linux- because I could make it mine | 18:29 | |
| pleia2 | MarkDude: you may be interested in the Ubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers team, among other things they're working on Ubuntu Tweak to add such advanced preferences for users who want them | 18:29 |
| MarkDude | ah- ok - thx pleia2 | 18:30 |
| pleia2 | (they are having a meeting this very moment in #ubuntu-meeting) | 18:30 |
| MarkDude | that makes sense- making some of this hidden but eventually accesible makes complete sense | 18:30 |
| pleia2 | yeah, there is a long battle that exists between showing users options and overwhelming them, my favorite example of this is xsane | 18:31 |
| * MarkDude figured I was not the only one that wanted the ability to change stuff | 18:31 | |
| MarkDude | rofl- I am a power user now | 18:32 |
| MarkDude | lol | 18:32 |
| MarkDude | AWESOME | 18:32 |
| nhaines | I never made any friends by showing anyone XSANE, but I made a lot showing off SimpleScan. :) | 18:32 |
| MarkDude | How the heck did that happen | 18:32 |
| pleia2 | nhaines: same! | 18:32 |
| pleia2 | heck, I wasn't even a friend to myself when I made myself use xsane | 18:32 |
| nhaines | haha | 18:32 |
| pleia2 | I mean it worked, but I only ever knew what like 3 of the options meant | 18:33 |
| nhaines | pleia2: It makes me chuckle how excited people are to create multipage PDFs. :) | 18:33 |
| nhaines | I knew all of the options but I didn't use them. | 18:33 |
| pleia2 | yeah, and a little sad :) | 18:33 |
| * MarkDude assumes much of this will be sorted out by next release | 18:33 | |
| nhaines | MarkDude: if you want to make major changes to your desktop interface, don't use Unity. | 18:33 |
| MarkDude | ty pleia2 nhaines and broder for explaining some of this | 18:34 |
| pleia2 | MarkDude: Unity was quite the warty of UI releases, I think you'll find a lot more polish in the next release | 18:34 |
| pleia2 | or you can just come over to my house and use xubuntu | 18:34 |
| pleia2 | I never even liked Gnome :) | 18:34 |
| MarkDude | I bet that is some of the debate happening now- what exactly is a MAJOR change | 18:34 |
| nhaines | I don't think Unity's going to see a lot of changes as far as customability goes, and considering sabdfl's been talking about eliminating applets for two years now I don't think that's going to change. | 18:34 |
| * MarkDude is pondering KDE- but will have to make up some crap about me being European | 18:35 | |
| MarkDude | So to customize it and use Gnome- would mean using Lucid Puppy | 18:35 |
| DarkwingDuck | Hey guys | 18:36 |
| MarkDude | Its all good. Unless Mark S decides to add a talking paperclip | 18:36 |
| nhaines | Or maybe what *I* said and using gnome-panel. | 18:36 |
| MarkDude | :D | 18:36 |
| DarkwingDuck | KDE is a good choice | 18:36 |
| DarkwingDuck | :P | 18:36 |
| MarkDude | You have to that dont you DarkwingDuck | 18:36 |
| MarkDude | or the council will remove your gears :D | 18:37 |
| DarkwingDuck | ROFL I have to give my blueness love | 18:37 |
| DarkwingDuck | Well, if all goes well, I'll be on the council. :P | 18:37 |
| MarkDude | Good deal | 18:37 |
| philipballew | DarkwingDuck, i have kde on 2 computers and have fewer problems with it then gnome. if tat supports your argument | 18:37 |
| MarkDude | I think Fedora and Canonical had a meeting and agreed- we can sorta screw up the next release | 18:38 |
| DarkwingDuck | philipballew: ++ | 18:38 |
| DarkwingDuck | hehehe | 18:38 |
| MarkDude | All sorts of people are not happy with Gnome 3 and F15 | 18:38 |
| MarkDude | So the timing was good at least | 18:38 |
| DarkwingDuck | So Gnome3 is ticking people off... Unity is ticking people off... Wonder what one makes people more upset. | 18:38 |
| philipballew | will this blow over do you think in a few releases though... | 18:39 |
| MarkDude | There is some dev work being done to remove Gnome sHell | 18:39 |
| MarkDude | F15 | 18:39 |
| MarkDude | pissing waaaaaay more folks off | 18:39 |
| MarkDude | Not even close | 18:39 |
| DarkwingDuck | philipballew: Yes, it will blow off... | 18:39 |
| MarkDude | It will pass of course | 18:39 |
| DarkwingDuck | When KDE went to plasma desktop is KDE4 people revolted. | 18:39 |
| DarkwingDuck | s/is/in | 18:40 |
| MarkDude | DarkwingDuck, well that was like 12 people from the US | 18:40 |
| * MarkDude kids | 18:40 | |
| DarkwingDuck | it took a while for it to sink in but, it worked out in the long run. | 18:40 |
| DarkwingDuck | LOL MarkDude | 18:40 |
| DarkwingDuck | 12 of the 100 who use linux in the US? | 18:40 |
| DarkwingDuck | :P | 18:40 |
| MarkDude | And after that KDE 3.5 crap- it could only go up | 18:40 |
| MarkDude | 12 in total | 18:41 |
| * MarkDude kids again | 18:41 | |
| MarkDude | Fedora is having a small rebellion | 18:41 |
| DarkwingDuck | MarkDude: If there is something you should have learned about me by now you can't offend me. | 18:41 |
| MarkDude | sure DarkwingDuck | 18:41 |
| * MarkDude wants others to know that tho | 18:41 | |
| DarkwingDuck | MarkDude: :D | 18:41 |
| * MarkDude does not see you crying over window manager | 18:42 | |
| DarkwingDuck | Ahhh, yeah, I have pretty thick skin... 7 years Navy does that to people. | 18:42 |
| DarkwingDuck | Pfffffft Nope | 18:42 |
| DarkwingDuck | Although, I watch LOADS of people cry over a UI on top of a Window Manager during hte Natty release cycle LOL | 18:42 |
| MarkDude | http://k3rnel.net/2011/05/25/the-best-of-both-worlds/ | 18:44 |
| MarkDude | So it appears some work will go in to retro packages | 18:44 |
| MarkDude | Not quite RTF- but enough to make some nervous | 18:45 |
| philipballew | i think gnome 3 should have just made the panels look more "modern" and call it good in a lot of ways | 18:46 |
| MarkDude | Dependencies are very weird with it | 18:47 |
| MarkDude | http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Canonical-Chief-Designer-Hits-the-Road | 18:54 |
| nhaines | Huh, I don't remember that happening. | 18:55 |
| MarkDude | roadtrip | 18:56 |
| broder | whether she will return to Canonical remains unclear> that reads to me as gross tabloid-esque speculation - there was nothing in the tone of her post to indicate that she's not coming back | 18:56 |
| broder | (in particular, "My return date is not fixed" carries an implied "but I am coming back" in the last paragraph) | 18:57 |
| MarkDude | true, or it could be a way for a graceful departure | 18:57 |
| MarkDude | Rikki wrote it- she's pretty good | 18:58 |
| akk | Yes, when I read that it usually means "leaving but don't want to say that officially yet" | 18:58 |
| MarkDude | broder, lets bet 25 cents on it | 18:58 |
| * MarkDude says she is gone | 18:58 | |
| MarkDude | Maybe to Google with Scott Remnat | 18:58 |
| broder | MarkDude: sure, why not | 18:59 |
| MarkDude | Cool | 18:59 |
| * MarkDude shakes imaginary hands | 18:59 | |
| MarkDude | Timeframe- would be 2 weeks after next release? | 18:59 |
| nhaines | She's not gone. She's just going on a roadtrip and probably wanted the option to stay an extra week because it's a honeymoon. | 19:04 |
| kdub | sounds like the thing to do for a honeymoon, or at least a work sabbatical | 19:05 |
| MarkDude | Gentlemen's bet nhaines ? | 19:09 |
| nhaines | Yup. | 19:10 |
| nhaines | MarkDude: sure thing. | 19:10 |
| MarkDude | Cool | 19:10 |
| MarkDude | A member of the Fedora design team did the same thing | 19:11 |
| MarkDude | I think she did not really know whether she was going/staying until during the trip | 19:11 |
| MarkDude | Tech is a cool industry | 19:11 |
| akk | That's often true with sabbaticals/long vacations. | 19:12 |
| MarkDude | I like how some of us- can just be like- well I will see how my trip goes | 19:12 |
| akk | I've seen a lot of people leave for sabbatical, then say at the end that they're not coming back. | 19:12 |
| MarkDude | and then I will decide | 19:12 |
| MarkDude | She prolly does not know yet | 19:12 |
| MarkDude | Her timing was good- much of the vision will be carried to the next release, so I am sure she has a comfort level now | 19:13 |
| MarkDude | Mabye Gentoo will give her a job offer | 19:14 |
| MarkDude | Oh wait- they have no $ | 19:15 |
| MarkDude | lol | 19:15 |
| nhaines | akk: have you seen Fedora 15 with GNOME Shell yet? | 21:46 |
| akk | nhaines: Only briefly from across the room -- haven't tried using it. | 22:08 |
| nhaines | akk: at the time I was running it on my laptop in a live CD environment but there's no MP3 support and I wanted to listen to music from Jamendo so... it ended up being a short visit. | 22:09 |
| seidos | bueno | 22:15 |
| pleia2 | philipballew now has cds for Sacramento :) | 23:59 |
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