[05:31] So with Unity- can you change the upper bar? Or is that not on the list? [05:47] So DarkwingDuck tell me more about Kubuntu 11.04 [05:47] * MarkDude has tried Unity, would like to see what else is out there [05:48] didn't you see him demo kde 4.6 at SCaLE? [05:50] Um no. [05:50] I was at Partimus booth the whole time [05:51] almost [05:52] I had not tried Unity til today- next up is Fedora 15- I have not heard good things about it- we will see [05:52] The "upper bar" is called the Unity panel. [05:52] Then again - I heard horrible stuff about unity- and its not what I was expecting [05:52] ty nhaines [05:52] :) [05:53] Better than me calling it the Start bar- lol [05:53] * MarkDude heard the icons on the left could not be changed easily- its easy enough to add stuff to it [05:55] Runs smoothly, this will most likely incredible by next release. It is waaaay farther along than I expected it to be. Everyone that worked on this should be very proud of themselves [05:58] MarkDude: i had a hard time figuring this out, but click-hold on an icon will loose it from the launcher [05:58] then you can drag it around easily [05:58] The way it disembodies the top part of a window is a bit weird, but could see how the goal is to be as efficient with space as possible [05:59] broder, but I cant pin it to the Unity Bar or the desktop? [05:59] unity bar == panel? you can't do that. you can put .desktop files on your desktop just like you always could, but you have to get it from somewhere other than the launcher [06:00] I was hoping to have my xchat be on the upper part of my screen [06:01] so to workaround this- I can use balloon notifications or sumthin' similar? [06:01] sorry, i think you've just exhausted my unity expertise [06:05] No stress- broder [06:05] your knowledge has helped [06:08] I saw how when I did that- it held a space in the icon menu [06:22] Well it appears that Unity will get at least a decent review on my blog. Not like Im late to the party or anything [06:26] What IRC clients are people using to get notifications? Pidgin? [18:00] Unity has found some bizarre ways to lock up [18:01] How can I kill a process? [18:01] * MarkDude is guessing that terminal is now it [18:07] * MarkDude no likey [18:08] i havent made the jump to unity yet [18:08] Looks like it would be great on a notebook [18:08] that was my sentiment too, when i tried it. a 26'/19' desktop though... [18:08] * MarkDude is kinda regretting it now. Luckily it was just an extra partition [18:09] i have like kde,gnome,unity, and xfce installed [18:09] upgrading to unity though really did a number on my sister's gnome install [18:11] I f I use the analogy of this being Vista- and the next release being Win7- in NOOO way am I implying it is bad [18:11] More that this will be great when some bugs are sorted out [18:12] * MarkDude had the bar on the left lock up- *halfway* open [18:12] halfway closed [18:12] like, its tough to drop a new desktop environment and just go [18:13] most the other ones i can think of organically grew until someone decided its worth it to center a distro around [18:13] MarkDude: unlike win 7, at least, you won't have to wait 2.5 years for oneiric :-P [18:13] lol [18:14] True broder that is why I dont really like the analogy- but for my purposes- I dont see the benefit at this point [18:14] So how am I allowed to look at my other partitions? [18:15] MarkDude, the question though, is will unity make Linux as a whole better even if some people dislike it [18:15] Disk Utility? [18:15] MarkDude: I don't feel like I'm getting any benefit out of Unity at the moment, but it also isn't really getting in my way personally, so I'll keep using it [18:17] These lockups are a hassle [18:17] * MarkDude wonders if it is Compiz and my machine [18:18] Yep= disk utility works [18:19] So right click appears to be being deprecated? [18:19] Like its bad or sumthin'? [18:19] * MarkDude needs to go find his one button Mac Mouse [18:19] it is? there's plenty of stuff to right click on my machine [18:20] Sure [18:20] there are all sorts of places I can no longer do so [18:20] i know the indicators in particular treat right/left clicks the same [18:20] I mean - is there a substantive reason I cant add indicators? [18:20] but that was part of the design behind them - eliminating confusion about how to interact with the notification area, since different apps would do different things when they used GtkStatusIcon [18:21] I can see VLC is not integrated so well [18:21] indicators are an application thing, not a user thing - you could modify the application in question to have an indicator :) [18:21] * MarkDude just wants to add stuff to the Unity bar on top- I mean- what harm would that do - if I CHOOSE to do so? [18:22] * MarkDude wants to add kill process [18:22] as well as having xchat up there [18:28] * MarkDude understands why much of this was done [18:28] * MarkDude cant understand why much of this stuff cant be under and *advanced settings* tab [18:28] So there must be a vision behind this [18:29] Because it runs counter to the design philosophy of Unity. [18:29] personalization? [18:29] Random applets with no standardized interaction. [18:29] * MarkDude got into Linux- because I could make it mine [18:29] MarkDude: you may be interested in the Ubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers team, among other things they're working on Ubuntu Tweak to add such advanced preferences for users who want them [18:30] ah- ok - thx pleia2 [18:30] (they are having a meeting this very moment in #ubuntu-meeting) [18:30] that makes sense- making some of this hidden but eventually accesible makes complete sense [18:31] yeah, there is a long battle that exists between showing users options and overwhelming them, my favorite example of this is xsane [18:31] * MarkDude figured I was not the only one that wanted the ability to change stuff [18:32] rofl- I am a power user now [18:32] lol [18:32] AWESOME [18:32] I never made any friends by showing anyone XSANE, but I made a lot showing off SimpleScan. :) [18:32] How the heck did that happen [18:32] nhaines: same! [18:32] heck, I wasn't even a friend to myself when I made myself use xsane [18:32] haha [18:33] I mean it worked, but I only ever knew what like 3 of the options meant [18:33] pleia2: It makes me chuckle how excited people are to create multipage PDFs. :) [18:33] I knew all of the options but I didn't use them. [18:33] yeah, and a little sad :) [18:33] * MarkDude assumes much of this will be sorted out by next release [18:33] MarkDude: if you want to make major changes to your desktop interface, don't use Unity. [18:34] ty pleia2 nhaines and broder for explaining some of this [18:34] MarkDude: Unity was quite the warty of UI releases, I think you'll find a lot more polish in the next release [18:34] or you can just come over to my house and use xubuntu [18:34] I never even liked Gnome :) [18:34] I bet that is some of the debate happening now- what exactly is a MAJOR change [18:34] I don't think Unity's going to see a lot of changes as far as customability goes, and considering sabdfl's been talking about eliminating applets for two years now I don't think that's going to change. [18:35] * MarkDude is pondering KDE- but will have to make up some crap about me being European [18:35] So to customize it and use Gnome- would mean using Lucid Puppy [18:36] Hey guys [18:36] Its all good. Unless Mark S decides to add a talking paperclip [18:36] Or maybe what *I* said and using gnome-panel. [18:36] :D [18:36] KDE is a good choice [18:36] :P [18:36] You have to that dont you DarkwingDuck [18:37] or the council will remove your gears :D [18:37] ROFL I have to give my blueness love [18:37] Well, if all goes well, I'll be on the council. :P [18:37] Good deal [18:37] DarkwingDuck, i have kde on 2 computers and have fewer problems with it then gnome. if tat supports your argument [18:38] I think Fedora and Canonical had a meeting and agreed- we can sorta screw up the next release [18:38] philipballew: ++ [18:38] hehehe [18:38] All sorts of people are not happy with Gnome 3 and F15 [18:38] So the timing was good at least [18:38] So Gnome3 is ticking people off... Unity is ticking people off... Wonder what one makes people more upset. [18:39] will this blow over do you think in a few releases though... [18:39] There is some dev work being done to remove Gnome sHell [18:39] F15 [18:39] pissing waaaaaay more folks off [18:39] Not even close [18:39] philipballew: Yes, it will blow off... [18:39] It will pass of course [18:39] When KDE went to plasma desktop is KDE4 people revolted. [18:40] s/is/in [18:40] DarkwingDuck, well that was like 12 people from the US [18:40] * MarkDude kids [18:40] it took a while for it to sink in but, it worked out in the long run. [18:40] LOL MarkDude [18:40] 12 of the 100 who use linux in the US? [18:40] :P [18:40] And after that KDE 3.5 crap- it could only go up [18:41] 12 in total [18:41] * MarkDude kids again [18:41] Fedora is having a small rebellion [18:41] MarkDude: If there is something you should have learned about me by now you can't offend me. [18:41] sure DarkwingDuck [18:41] * MarkDude wants others to know that tho [18:41] MarkDude: :D [18:42] * MarkDude does not see you crying over window manager [18:42] Ahhh, yeah, I have pretty thick skin... 7 years Navy does that to people. [18:42] Pfffffft Nope [18:42] Although, I watch LOADS of people cry over a UI on top of a Window Manager during hte Natty release cycle LOL [18:44] http://k3rnel.net/2011/05/25/the-best-of-both-worlds/ [18:44] So it appears some work will go in to retro packages [18:45] Not quite RTF- but enough to make some nervous [18:46] i think gnome 3 should have just made the panels look more "modern" and call it good in a lot of ways [18:47] Dependencies are very weird with it [18:54] http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Canonical-Chief-Designer-Hits-the-Road [18:55] Huh, I don't remember that happening. [18:56] roadtrip [18:56] whether she will return to Canonical remains unclear> that reads to me as gross tabloid-esque speculation - there was nothing in the tone of her post to indicate that she's not coming back [18:57] (in particular, "My return date is not fixed" carries an implied "but I am coming back" in the last paragraph) [18:57] true, or it could be a way for a graceful departure [18:58] Rikki wrote it- she's pretty good [18:58] Yes, when I read that it usually means "leaving but don't want to say that officially yet" [18:58] broder, lets bet 25 cents on it [18:58] * MarkDude says she is gone [18:58] Maybe to Google with Scott Remnat [18:59] MarkDude: sure, why not [18:59] Cool [18:59] * MarkDude shakes imaginary hands [18:59] Timeframe- would be 2 weeks after next release? [19:04] She's not gone. She's just going on a roadtrip and probably wanted the option to stay an extra week because it's a honeymoon. [19:05] sounds like the thing to do for a honeymoon, or at least a work sabbatical [19:09] Gentlemen's bet nhaines ? [19:10] Yup. [19:10] MarkDude: sure thing. [19:10] Cool [19:11] A member of the Fedora design team did the same thing [19:11] I think she did not really know whether she was going/staying until during the trip [19:11] Tech is a cool industry [19:12] That's often true with sabbaticals/long vacations. [19:12] I like how some of us- can just be like- well I will see how my trip goes [19:12] I've seen a lot of people leave for sabbatical, then say at the end that they're not coming back. [19:12] and then I will decide [19:12] She prolly does not know yet [19:13] Her timing was good- much of the vision will be carried to the next release, so I am sure she has a comfort level now [19:14] Mabye Gentoo will give her a job offer [19:15] Oh wait- they have no $ [19:15] lol [21:46] akk: have you seen Fedora 15 with GNOME Shell yet? [22:08] nhaines: Only briefly from across the room -- haven't tried using it. [22:09] akk: at the time I was running it on my laptop in a live CD environment but there's no MP3 support and I wanted to listen to music from Jamendo so... it ended up being a short visit. [22:15] bueno [23:59] philipballew now has cds for Sacramento :)