[05:31] <MarkDude> So with Unity- can you change the upper bar? Or is that not on the list?
[05:47] <MarkDude> So DarkwingDuck tell me more about Kubuntu 11.04
[05:47]  * MarkDude has tried Unity, would like to see what else is out there
[05:48] <sn9> didn't you see him demo kde 4.6 at SCaLE?
[05:50] <MarkDude> Um no.
[05:50] <MarkDude> I was at Partimus booth the whole time
[05:51] <MarkDude> almost
[05:52] <MarkDude> I had not tried Unity til today- next up is Fedora 15- I have not heard good things about it- we will see
[05:52] <nhaines> The "upper bar" is called the Unity panel.
[05:52] <MarkDude> Then again - I heard horrible stuff about unity- and its not what I was expecting
[05:52] <MarkDude> ty nhaines
[05:52] <MarkDude> :)
[05:53] <MarkDude> Better than me calling it the Start bar- lol
[05:53]  * MarkDude heard the icons on the left could not be changed easily- its easy enough to add stuff to it
[05:55] <MarkDude> Runs smoothly, this will most likely incredible by next release. It is waaaay farther along than I expected it to be. Everyone that worked on this should be very proud of themselves
[05:58] <broder> MarkDude: i had a hard time figuring this out, but click-hold on an icon will loose it from the launcher
[05:58] <broder> then you can drag it around easily
[05:58] <MarkDude> The way it disembodies the top part of a window is a bit weird, but could see how the goal is to be as efficient with space as possible
[05:59] <MarkDude> broder, but I cant pin it to the Unity Bar or the desktop?
[05:59] <broder> unity bar == panel? you can't do that. you can put .desktop files on your desktop just like you always could, but you have to get it from somewhere other than the launcher
[06:00] <MarkDude> I was hoping to have my xchat be on the upper part of my screen
[06:01] <MarkDude> so to workaround this- I can use balloon notifications or sumthin' similar?
[06:01] <broder> sorry, i think you've just exhausted my unity expertise
[06:05] <MarkDude> No stress- broder
[06:05] <MarkDude> your knowledge has helped
[06:08] <MarkDude> I saw how when I did that- it held a space in the icon menu
[06:22] <MarkDude> Well it appears that Unity will get at least a decent review on my blog. Not like Im late to the party or anything
[06:26] <MarkDude> What IRC clients are people using to get notifications? Pidgin?
[18:00] <MarkDude> Unity has found some bizarre ways to lock up
[18:01] <MarkDude> How can I kill a process?
[18:01]  * MarkDude is guessing that terminal is now it
[18:07]  * MarkDude no likey
[18:08] <kdub> i havent made the jump to unity yet
[18:08] <MarkDude> Looks like it would be great on a notebook
[18:08] <kdub> that was my sentiment too, when i tried it. a 26'/19' desktop though...
[18:08]  * MarkDude is kinda regretting it now. Luckily it was just an extra partition
[18:09] <kdub> i have like kde,gnome,unity, and xfce installed
[18:09] <kdub> upgrading to unity though really did a number on my sister's gnome install
[18:11] <MarkDude> I f I use the analogy of this being Vista- and the next release being Win7- in NOOO way am I implying it is bad
[18:11] <MarkDude> More that this will be great when some bugs are sorted out
[18:12]  * MarkDude had the bar on the left lock up- *halfway* open
[18:12] <MarkDude> halfway closed
[18:12] <kdub> like, its tough to drop a new desktop environment and just go
[18:13] <kdub> most the other ones i can think of organically grew until someone decided its worth it to center a distro around
[18:13] <broder> MarkDude: unlike win 7, at least, you won't have to wait 2.5 years for oneiric :-P
[18:13] <MarkDude> lol
[18:14] <MarkDude> True broder that is why I dont really like the analogy- but for my purposes- I dont see the benefit at this point
[18:14] <MarkDude> So how am I allowed to look at my other partitions?
[18:15] <philipballew> MarkDude, the question though, is will unity make Linux as a whole better even if some people dislike it
[18:15] <broder> Disk Utility?
[18:15] <broder> MarkDude: I don't feel like I'm getting any benefit out of Unity at the moment, but it also isn't really getting in my way personally, so I'll keep using it
[18:17] <MarkDude> These lockups are a hassle
[18:17]  * MarkDude wonders if it is Compiz and my machine
[18:18] <MarkDude> Yep= disk utility works
[18:19] <MarkDude> So right click appears to be being deprecated?
[18:19] <MarkDude> Like its bad or sumthin'?
[18:19]  * MarkDude needs to go find his one button Mac Mouse
[18:19] <broder> it is? there's plenty of stuff to right click on my machine
[18:20] <MarkDude> Sure
[18:20] <MarkDude> there are all sorts of places I can no longer do so
[18:20] <broder> i know the indicators in particular treat right/left clicks the same
[18:20] <MarkDude> I mean - is there a substantive reason I cant add indicators?
[18:20] <broder> but that was part of the design behind them - eliminating confusion about how to interact with the notification area, since different apps would do different things when they used GtkStatusIcon
[18:21] <MarkDude> I can see VLC is not integrated so well
[18:21] <broder> indicators are an application thing, not a user thing - you could modify the application in question to have an indicator :)
[18:21]  * MarkDude just wants to add stuff to the Unity bar on top- I mean- what harm would that do - if I CHOOSE to do so?
[18:22]  * MarkDude wants to add kill process
[18:22] <MarkDude> as well as having xchat up there
[18:28]  * MarkDude understands why much of this was done
[18:28]  * MarkDude cant understand why much of this stuff cant be under and *advanced settings* tab
[18:28] <MarkDude> So there must be a vision behind this
[18:29] <nhaines> Because it runs counter to the design philosophy of Unity.
[18:29] <MarkDude> personalization?
[18:29] <nhaines> Random applets with no standardized interaction.
[18:29]  * MarkDude got into Linux- because I could make it mine
[18:29] <pleia2> MarkDude: you may be interested in the Ubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers team, among other things they're working on Ubuntu Tweak to add such advanced preferences for users who want them
[18:30] <MarkDude> ah- ok - thx pleia2
[18:30] <pleia2> (they are having a meeting this very moment in #ubuntu-meeting)
[18:30] <MarkDude> that makes sense- making some of this hidden but eventually accesible makes complete sense
[18:31] <pleia2> yeah, there is a long battle that exists between showing users options and overwhelming them, my favorite example of this is xsane
[18:31]  * MarkDude figured I was not the only one that wanted the ability to change stuff
[18:32] <MarkDude> rofl- I am a power user now
[18:32] <MarkDude> lol
[18:32] <MarkDude> AWESOME
[18:32] <nhaines> I never made any friends by showing anyone XSANE, but I made a lot showing off SimpleScan.  :)
[18:32] <MarkDude> How the heck did that happen
[18:32] <pleia2> nhaines: same!
[18:32] <pleia2> heck, I wasn't even a friend to myself when I made myself use xsane
[18:32] <nhaines> haha
[18:33] <pleia2> I mean it worked, but I only ever knew what like 3 of the options meant
[18:33] <nhaines> pleia2: It makes me chuckle how excited people are to create multipage PDFs.  :)
[18:33] <nhaines> I knew all of the options but I didn't use them.
[18:33] <pleia2> yeah, and a little sad :)
[18:33]  * MarkDude assumes much of this will be sorted out by next release
[18:33] <nhaines> MarkDude: if you want to make major changes to your desktop interface, don't use Unity.
[18:34] <MarkDude> ty pleia2 nhaines  and broder for explaining some of this
[18:34] <pleia2> MarkDude: Unity was quite the warty of UI releases, I think you'll find a lot more polish in the next release
[18:34] <pleia2> or you can just come over to my house and use xubuntu
[18:34] <pleia2> I never even liked Gnome :)
[18:34] <MarkDude> I bet that is some of the debate happening now- what exactly is a MAJOR change
[18:34] <nhaines> I don't think Unity's going to see a lot of changes as far as customability goes, and considering sabdfl's been talking about eliminating applets for two years now I don't think that's going to change.
[18:35]  * MarkDude is pondering KDE- but will have to make up some crap about me being European
[18:35] <MarkDude> So to customize it and use Gnome- would mean using Lucid Puppy
[18:36] <DarkwingDuck> Hey guys
[18:36] <MarkDude> Its all good. Unless Mark S decides to add a talking paperclip
[18:36] <nhaines> Or maybe what *I* said and using gnome-panel.
[18:36] <MarkDude> :D
[18:36] <DarkwingDuck> KDE is a good choice
[18:36] <DarkwingDuck> :P
[18:36] <MarkDude> You have to that dont you DarkwingDuck
[18:37] <MarkDude> or the council will remove your gears :D
[18:37] <DarkwingDuck> ROFL I have to give my blueness love
[18:37] <DarkwingDuck> Well, if all goes well, I'll be on the council. :P
[18:37] <MarkDude> Good deal
[18:37] <philipballew> DarkwingDuck, i have kde on 2 computers and have fewer problems with it then gnome. if tat supports your argument
[18:38] <MarkDude> I think Fedora and Canonical had a meeting and agreed- we can sorta screw up the next release
[18:38] <DarkwingDuck> philipballew: ++
[18:38] <DarkwingDuck> hehehe
[18:38] <MarkDude> All sorts of people are not happy with Gnome 3 and F15
[18:38] <MarkDude> So the timing was good at least
[18:38] <DarkwingDuck> So Gnome3 is ticking people off... Unity is ticking people off... Wonder what one makes people more upset.
[18:39] <philipballew> will this blow over do you think in a few releases though...
[18:39] <MarkDude> There is some dev work being done to remove Gnome sHell
[18:39] <MarkDude> F15
[18:39] <MarkDude> pissing waaaaaay more folks off
[18:39] <MarkDude> Not even close
[18:39] <DarkwingDuck> philipballew: Yes, it will blow off...
[18:39] <MarkDude> It will pass of course
[18:39] <DarkwingDuck> When KDE went to plasma desktop is KDE4 people revolted.
[18:40] <DarkwingDuck> s/is/in
[18:40] <MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, well that was like 12 people from the US
[18:40]  * MarkDude kids
[18:40] <DarkwingDuck> it took a while for it to sink in but, it worked out in the long run.
[18:40] <DarkwingDuck> LOL MarkDude
[18:40] <DarkwingDuck> 12 of the 100 who use linux in the US?
[18:40] <DarkwingDuck> :P
[18:40] <MarkDude> And after that KDE 3.5 crap- it could only go up
[18:41] <MarkDude> 12 in total
[18:41]  * MarkDude kids again
[18:41] <MarkDude> Fedora is having a small rebellion
[18:41] <DarkwingDuck> MarkDude: If there is something you should have learned about me by now you can't offend me.
[18:41] <MarkDude> sure DarkwingDuck
[18:41]  * MarkDude wants others to know that tho
[18:41] <DarkwingDuck> MarkDude: :D
[18:42]  * MarkDude does not see you crying over window manager
[18:42] <DarkwingDuck> Ahhh, yeah, I have pretty thick skin... 7 years Navy does that to people.
[18:42] <DarkwingDuck> Pfffffft Nope
[18:42] <DarkwingDuck> Although, I watch LOADS of people cry over a UI on top of a Window Manager during hte Natty release cycle LOL
[18:44] <MarkDude> http://k3rnel.net/2011/05/25/the-best-of-both-worlds/
[18:44] <MarkDude> So it appears some work will go in to retro packages
[18:45] <MarkDude> Not quite RTF- but enough to make some nervous
[18:46] <philipballew> i think gnome 3 should have just made the panels look more "modern" and call it good in a lot of ways
[18:47] <MarkDude> Dependencies are very weird with it
[18:54] <MarkDude> http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Canonical-Chief-Designer-Hits-the-Road
[18:55] <nhaines> Huh, I don't remember that happening.
[18:56] <MarkDude> roadtrip
[18:56] <broder> whether she will return to Canonical remains unclear> that reads to me as gross tabloid-esque speculation - there was nothing in the tone of her post to indicate that she's not coming back
[18:57] <broder> (in particular, "My return date is not fixed" carries an implied "but I am coming back" in the last paragraph)
[18:57] <MarkDude> true, or it could be a way for a graceful departure
[18:58] <MarkDude> Rikki wrote it- she's pretty good
[18:58] <akk> Yes, when I read that it usually means "leaving but don't want to say that officially yet"
[18:58] <MarkDude> broder, lets bet 25 cents on it
[18:58]  * MarkDude says she is gone
[18:58] <MarkDude> Maybe to Google with Scott Remnat
[18:59] <broder> MarkDude: sure, why not
[18:59] <MarkDude> Cool
[18:59]  * MarkDude shakes imaginary hands
[18:59] <MarkDude> Timeframe- would be 2 weeks after next release?
[19:04] <nhaines> She's not gone.  She's just going on a roadtrip and probably wanted the option to stay an extra week because it's a honeymoon.
[19:05] <kdub> sounds like the thing to do for a honeymoon, or at least a work sabbatical
[19:09] <MarkDude> Gentlemen's bet nhaines ?
[19:10] <nhaines> Yup.
[19:10] <nhaines> MarkDude: sure thing.
[19:10] <MarkDude> Cool
[19:11] <MarkDude> A member of the Fedora design team did the same thing
[19:11] <MarkDude> I think she did not really know whether she was going/staying until during the trip
[19:11] <MarkDude> Tech is a cool industry
[19:12] <akk> That's often true with sabbaticals/long vacations.
[19:12] <MarkDude> I like how some of us- can just be like- well I will see how my trip goes
[19:12] <akk> I've seen a lot of people leave for sabbatical, then say at the end that they're not coming back.
[19:12] <MarkDude> and then I will decide
[19:12] <MarkDude> She prolly does not know yet
[19:13] <MarkDude> Her timing was good- much of the vision will be carried to the next release, so I am sure she has a comfort level now
[19:14] <MarkDude> Mabye Gentoo will give her a job offer
[19:15] <MarkDude> Oh wait- they have no $
[19:15] <MarkDude> lol
[21:46] <nhaines> akk: have you seen Fedora 15 with GNOME Shell yet?
[22:08] <akk> nhaines: Only briefly from across the room -- haven't tried using it.
[22:09] <nhaines> akk: at the time I was running it on my laptop in a live CD environment but there's no MP3 support and I wanted to listen to music from Jamendo so... it ended up being a short visit.
[22:15] <seidos> bueno
[23:59] <pleia2> philipballew now has cds for Sacramento :)