[00:29] Yeah, there is that. [00:53] whoa, what is this? three wiki page saves with no server errors?!?!?! [00:58] lol, progress! [02:35] my irc is in th cloud now [02:35] yay [02:35] irccloud.com === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [02:48] Woooooto === smoser` is now known as smoser [13:33] I'm changing the header for the Michigan team [13:34] Now has links to the new loco directory for events and meetings, both upcoming and prior [13:44] Although the 2010 and Prior link is a misnomer [13:44] Not sure what to call it, since it has more meeting foo [13:44] Just asked a question on the loco directory site for how to add synopsis of meetings to the individual meetings [14:17] [14:17] I just ran across this e-mail sig: "Anything I write within these forums is EXPRESSLY my property. If you wish to copy or use it else where you MUST have my EXPRESS permission to do so." [14:18] heh [14:18] good luck enforcing that [14:20] I'm going to add "© 2011, My Name" to my email sig [14:20] well, technically all e-mail are protected by copyright [14:21] you don't need to post notice for that to be true [14:21] Good, they need to be reminded [14:21] * greg-g waves from Oakland U [14:21] but wtf is the point? [14:21] unless you are e-mailing literary works [14:21] greg-g: woo, howdy [14:21] "All rights reserved". "Copyright violators will be sued according to current guidelines, which suggest about $100,000 per word" [14:22] and wouldn't Google et al be guilty, since the *default* behavior of virtually any mail client is to quote the entire text of the e-mail you're responding to? [14:23] LOL. $100k per word? You would make the very best professional authors jealous [14:23] and make intelligent people laugh at you [14:23] I'm just going by what the courts have upheld for the RIAA. [14:23] Argue with them [14:25] that's music, that's different [14:25] ok, so apparently i'm an idiot. i thought when i shut down my ec2 instance that the ebs store would stick around so i could use it again [14:25] nope. My email are treasures. [14:25] you're not just paying for words, you're paying for (ahem) talent and composition [14:26] You dare say my emails lack talent and composition?' [14:26] I'm going to sue you for defamation. [14:26] so to claim RIAA damages are "per word" is ludicrous and suggests that instrumental selections are free to copy [14:26] Also, all lines to this channel I've sent are copyrighted, so don't go showing this to people [14:26] tis true... [14:27] no it doesn't. I never said instrumental parts weren't also composed and had talent [14:27] I just said my emails did, too [14:27] channel logging infringes my copyright [14:27] greg-g owes us money [14:27] you better turn it off, all of you [14:27] or I'll start suing IRC nicks. If they can sue an ip address, I can sue a nick and hostmask [14:27] ColonelPanic001: you claimed RIAA was paid 100k per word. Instrumentals have no words. [14:28] I just claimed to be using their guidelines. There's some... interpretation... involved. [14:29] heh [14:31] you were warned and gave your implicit permission by joining the channel, seeing the /topic, and not leaving [14:31] wolfger: ^ [14:31] if TOSs are enforceable, so is a /topic ;) [14:32] CRAP [14:32] the /topic simply informs me of you infringement [14:33] I mean, YEAH [14:33] I've not agreed to it [14:33] WHAT HE SAID. [14:33] wolfger: you have a choice to leave [14:33] leave it to the copyright nerd to ruin my new business plan of suing thousands of IRC users [14:33] * ColonelPanic001 shakes fist [14:33] You need to put it in /topic as a TOS. "By participating in this channel, you agree to......" [14:34] the topic must be a full legal document. Is there a char limit on topics? [14:37] what does it take to get a politician to rewrite copyright law to be more sensible? [14:37] I mean, aside from being a (ahem) generous multi-billion-dollar industry? [14:37] :-p [14:38] oh, wolfger, I'm in the same room at Oakland U where you presented on Bug Triaging way back in the day! [14:38] It's scary that you remember which room that was [14:38] my mind is like a trap [14:38] bloody with sharp edges [14:38] my mind is like a sieve [14:40] I can't think of a good analogy for my mind [14:46] If you think your words are too valuable to be shared, please just shut up now and save us the trouble. ;) [14:46] I'm here to share ideas, not listen to self-important assholes. ;) [14:46] ah, i was supposed to stop the instance, not terminate it [14:47] greg-g: Did you see my header changes? [15:01] smoser: you deal with ubuntu amis on ec2? [15:01] i do [15:02] how do i find the official one in the giant list of amis? [15:02] there's like 6000 images, most of them say testing or milestone [15:03] i'm looking for a 64 bit lucid server ami [15:04] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EC2StartersGuide and http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/ is what I use [15:05] so you upload your own? [15:05] no, those give you the names [15:05] oh yeah, burn all your $$$ on uploading. :) [15:05] it costs like $1 to upload your own, ;] [15:05] http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/lucid/current/ [15:06] ah, i see now [15:07] and clicking on the one i want goes out to the console for me. brilliant! [15:07] :) [15:08] now i just have to remember to stop my instance instead of terminating it [15:08] good plan [15:08] or make your instances just scriptable builds [15:08] so that you can terminate and rebuild via scripts [15:09] so that you can easily recover, load in a new region, or fire up multiple instances [15:09] i think i'll learn how to do it the hard way first [15:10] that is the hard way, so good plan [15:11] snap-l: yeah, saw that [15:13] oh nice, that daily one is completely up to date already [15:15] snap-l: I'm anti-copyright... I *want* people to copy and spread my opinions :-) [15:15] greg-g: Any thoughts on the change, or is now not a good time. ;) [15:16] rick_h_: ok, i want to learn the manual method first :P [15:17] brousch: yea, most people do, and then never get around to the right way [15:18] i guess it would depend on how often i end up using this [15:19] well just warning is all [15:30] snap-l: kind of busy, but, maybe a bit too long/tall? I was trying to figure out the best way to be complete, but not unbalanced [15:33] greg-g: Yeah, same thought here [15:50] OK, I updated it so it's not as tall [16:03] cool [16:04] I think I'm going to add a new agenda item to decommission google calendar [16:04] since it seems that the calendar is working ow. [16:04] now [16:04] awesome, just use the LD? [16:04] Yeah [16:05] sounds good to me, fewer moving pieces the better [16:05] Yep [16:12] oh, that's why greg-g is at OU [16:12] I forgot about that conference [16:12] I am sadly not there [16:12] although I hear some of the fruits of my labor may have been talked about. [16:12] <_stink_> oh, that one [16:13] <_stink_> right [16:13] yeah, that one [16:13] https://twitter.com/#!/kimcallery/status/73766419409534976 [16:13] wonder if she meant "mobile site", or if they actually did talk about the mobile app [16:13] I presume the former, because I don't see how they'd be able to talk about usage. [16:14] meh [16:15] what is going on at OU? [16:16] http://www2.oakland.edu/elis/conference.cfm [16:16] greg-g: heh, JoDee will be out at OU for class / work. [16:18] snap-l: boo! hiss! Keep gcal! [16:18] greg-g: does ken still work at OU [16:18] wolfger: you'll still be able to have an ical feed. [16:18] jrwren: No, he doesn't, iirc. [16:19] * wolfger is dubious... [16:19] I've yet to see an iCal that actually worked well [16:19] wolfger: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/ical [16:19] jrwren: I think he moved on [16:19] snap-l: awesome [16:19] Add that feed to your Google Calendar. [16:19] ColonelPanic001: mobile dev? [16:20] i should drop him an email. [16:20] snap-l: when is she here? she should come to lunch in a bit and chat! [16:20] she would like this crowd, i think [16:20] I'm not sure when she's showing up there. [16:20] greg-g: yeah, I've written/write the WSU mobile app for Android and iPhone [16:21] ColonelPanic001: awesome, then you should have been here! [16:22] greg-g: yeah, I'd liked to have, but meh. [16:22] I wish conference calls had some volume compression [16:23] some folks are lound as fuck, and the rest are quiet [16:23] snap-l: "processed 32 events, successfully imported 31 events".... I remain dubious [16:25] http://www.imagescape.com/blog/small-and-fun-employee-benefit/ kind of cool [16:25] MDLUG and WashLUG meetings not on the iCal... not sure if that's intentional [16:26] pretty much :P [16:26] there is only one true LUG! [16:26] :p [16:26] wolfger: So add them. :) [16:26] wolfger: other non-loco events don't fit, logicially, in our loco directory listing, unless we're doing something there [16:26] I don't know when they are. [16:27] CPL hack day not on iCal or gCal, despite being promoted on mailing list... [16:27] snap-l: you'd know if you used gCal :-) [16:27] wolfger: good point, I can make you an admin on loco.ubuntu.com to add it for us [16:28] and nothing on iCal past July 3 [16:28] wolfger: that's because I'm lazy. [16:28] wolfger: check what is in the loco directory listing for us, the ical is the export of that [16:28] wolfger: what are we missing post july 3rd? [16:28] but not lazy enough to leave a perfectly good gCal alone? [16:28] greg-g: everything [16:28] Wow, I forgot that I used a rather lewd forum name on the Ubuntu Forums. [16:29] wolfger: examples? [16:29] There should be IRC meetings to the end of the year. [16:29] CHC, MDLUG, MUG, CHC again [16:29] those aren't in the loco directory for a reason [16:29] UH:CHC is only up to June [16:29] CHC, WashLUG, CHC [16:29] if you want those listed in a gcal, start a "South East Michigan FLOSS community calendar" :) [16:30] They have been in gCal prior. [16:30] yeah [16:30] we need to talk about this, I guess :) [16:30] Yeah, definitely [16:30] ok, looks like the next irc meeting is listed on iCal [16:30] what we want to get from this calendar, who/what we want to promote [16:30] etc [16:31] Meeting agenda for Sunday IRC :-) [16:31] wolfger: please add your thoughts somewhere, in case you can't make it [16:32] sure [16:33] http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/team/78/detail/ Item #1 [16:33] er, #3 [16:34] thanks, snap-l [16:34] np [16:34] we have a west michigan groups and events calendar [16:44] damnitall. an old mod_wsgi bug is killing django on lucid [17:01] hah! django and wsgi, I laugh [17:02] why is that funny? [17:05] sorry, guess I've just seen the whole track record of django and wsgi tring to get together to play nice...from the "week don't need no stinkin wsgi" to current times [17:05] what else is there? [17:05] besides wsgi :P [17:06] heh, now you say that [17:06] things weren't always so [17:06] blah, this thing is little. i will try flask for it [17:06] see if that plays better [17:06] * _stink_ does Wayne's World dream sequence hands thing for rick_h_ to tell the story [17:07] i had good luck with mod_python. i was sad to see it die [17:07] ugh [17:07] that thing was years over due to die [17:07] it worked! [17:08] lunch time [17:09] that was a fast port to flask :P [17:23] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10865031#post10865031 <- I really hope they change my username. ;) [17:24] Though frankly, if they deleted the forum account, I wouldn't be upset in the least. [18:03] or the entire forum? [18:04] wolfger++ [18:05] that won't work. I've been trying to do that for years :P [18:22] qq for the sqlalchemy folks (well, maybe not so quick) [18:23] http://paste.mitechie.com/show/325/ [18:23] I want to use the Show class as a (for lack of a better word) "normal class" [18:23] ie: have methods for listing shows, adding shows, et. [18:24] don't [18:24] rick_h_: OK, that's the feeling I'm getting. ;) [18:24] for every model file you creat, I strongly suggest creating a matching Manager class. I tend to just append Mgr to the class name [18:24] if the method deals with the current instance of the object, it's part of the main sqlalchemy object [18:25] if it deals with lists, or any number of instances (like a get_list method, etc) it goes on the Mgr class [18:25] rick_h_: you have an example of that? [18:25] Yeah, I'd like to see that. [18:25] http://goo.gl/JswXe [18:25] see the top there, Tag and TagMgr [18:26] Ah, OK. [18:26] Tag has no real methods on it [18:26] I was browsing that code last night, but it didn't click on what you were doing [18:26] but TagMgr has the static methods that work with Tag [18:26] That makes sense. [18:26] yea, makes things a lot easier/more reusable [18:26] and there's no confusion on what a method returns [18:26] I hate having SqlAlchemy models retuning strange things [18:27] or wondering "is this model init'd or not" [18:27] rick_h_ is a genius [18:27] no, I've just ran into things I didn't like and worked out what I prefer [18:27] this is all convention/opinion, but it'll be part of my SqlAlchemy tutorial [18:28] anyone use s3fs? [18:28] code like Tag.add_tag('test', Tag.get_tag(3)); drives me bonkers [18:28] rick_h_: Thank you. I'll play with that, and will likely adopt that convention. [18:28] jrwren: no, I just use boto scripts to work with it for upload/etc [18:28] the fs stuff just seemed a bit scary [18:29] http://unserializableone.blogspot.com/2007/09/simple-directory-browser-for-amazon-s3.html helps a lot [18:29] see http://media.lococast.net/index.html [18:31] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2188154&cid=36252086 [18:32] (the thread where the guy tells me what sites don't have inline ads) [18:33] i'm trying out s3fs [18:35] snap-l: whoa, that is freakish. that article just went through my feed reader and it shows tiny snippets of comments in the reader. i read yours [18:37] Yeah, snark is informative, apparently. ;) [18:38] i never look at names, so i didn't know it was you [18:38] snap-l: something like: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/326/ [18:40] Wow. [18:40] Thank you! [18:41] no prob, hope that helps [18:52] Yeah, that helps out a ton [18:53] don't forget to read the comments in the get_list method :) [18:54] Yeah, I suck [18:54] All the good variables are keywords in Python. ;) [18:54] sorry, pet peeve [18:55] Well, it's lazy on my part, because I know better. [18:55] But it's the ol' "I'll fix it in post" [18:55] and it never would have been fixed. [19:01] snap-l: var1, var2, ..., varN aren't Python keywords, just use those :) [19:17] a$ = 'hello' [19:18] Yay, more rain [19:19] high 60 tomorrow, high 83 Sunday 0_o [19:26] why do i even try to start new projects with django when flask is so friendly? [19:27] lol [19:27] because you want to fit in with all those cool django people [19:27] they have their own conferences man, djangocon [19:27] and a pony [19:27] i want a pony [19:28] only if there's a dog riding the pony [19:28] that would be django with oracle backend [19:28] i guess that'd be a pony riding a dog [19:28] that's good too [19:29] I'm spoiled by a high degree of dog and pony shows here... I just can't settle for only one or the other. :-p [19:29] That's why I got a great dane... a pony to go with my dogs XD [19:30] wolfger: Well, hell, you've had some of the best salesmen jobs come through that organization [19:30] "what we currently have is broken, so we're going to fix it more until everyone says that the old way was 10x better than the improvement". [19:31] LOL [19:31] (guy gets promoted, new guy shows up, repeat) [19:31] and QQ [19:31] I laugh because it's funny and cry because it's true [19:32] so when's the next group outing? [19:32] Everybody/anybody going to OLF? [19:32] 11.10 [19:33] wolfger: pyohio, i expect [19:33] there's that detroit makerfaire too, same weekend [19:33] I feel like I missed Penguicon [19:35] mini makerfaire AA? [19:36] crap, I'm out of town that weekend [19:43] I'm planning on going to OLF and PyOhio [19:44] https://identi.ca/notice/74644224 <- Grr [19:48] snap-l used one of my favorite swearing combos [19:49] I don't know why, but the word "chucklefuck" always makes me crack up [19:49] yea, PyOhio and OLF here [19:54] IT's because it has the word chuckle in it. ;) [20:11] snap-l: you and J should do a talk at OLF on your open-source/hardware lab equipment idea, even if it isn't ready [20:12] greg-g: Yeah, we've talked about that. [20:12] That's my goal. ;) [20:13] Does anyone in this irc channel have knowledge about records (the audio kind not the book of records kind) or know someone that does? [20:14] What do you want to kow? [20:14] I speak a little turntable. ;) [20:15] Well, I've got a lot of records and I'm unsure of their value. [20:15] I'm not the person to ask. :) [20:15] Most of them are the smaller ones. [20:15] Oh, alright, thank you. [20:15] Depends a lot on condition, rarity, etc. [20:17] Plus there's different versions of the same recording, different grades of vinyl, different mastering (direct, OMR, Superdisc, etc) [20:18] <_stink_> maybe hit up a few used record stores and see what they say? that what i'd do if i had a stack of old books that i didn't want around, at least. [20:18] Yeah, or check eBay completed auctions for what they're going for [20:18] Alright, thank you. [20:18] I know the prices on CDs a lot better than vinyl [20:19] Just out of curiosity, what vinyl do you have? [20:19] What do you mean? [20:19] (I'm not sure the context of the word) [20:20] What records do you have? :) [20:20] snap-l: just making sure. We briefly talked about it today and I love the idea and I think you might get some interest at OLF [20:20] The names of the artists, etc. [20:20] greg-g: Yeah, I think it has some merit. :) [20:20] (sorry, I'm delayed in replying right now) [20:21] i got flask up and running in a virtualmachine in the same time it takes me to create a django project and fix all the stuff in the settings file [20:21] Alot of them are in the brown paper sleeving (looks like the kind paper grocery bags are made of.) [20:21] running under mod_wsgi with a vm [20:21] TeamXlink: I think those might be 78s. [20:22] brousch: welcome to micro frameworks [20:22] TeamXlink: They should say what speed to play them at on the center label [20:22] 78rpm records are also very heavy compared with 45RPM or 33RPM records. [20:24] TeamXlink: The pricing on those is also pretty widely varied. I've seen them at antique shops pretty much in bulk, save for the more popular artists. [20:25] ie: If you have a Miles Davis 78RPm, that's going to be worth more than some obscure big band that few people remember. [20:25] Alright. [20:26] Theres a few that are just a blank label. [20:26] Could you take some photos? [20:26] You've piqued my interest. [20:26] I'll try and find my camera. [20:26] brb [20:27] how much is my alvin and the chipmuks sing about breakfast cereals 45 worth? [20:30] brousch: A punch in the mouth. ;) [20:30] I can't find my camera [20:31] If they're truly white-label LPs, they may be test pressings or underground record distribution [20:31] those can fetch some $$, depending [20:31] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_label [20:33] snap-l: Alright. [20:33] Thank you very much for the help. [20:33] Keep in mind, though, with any collectible, it's all about what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller [20:34] Yeah. [20:34] so you might see someone pay $$ for something that they've been desperately searching for, but that doesn't mean it's valued at that. [20:34] Yeah. [20:35] Best bet would be to take a sampling, verify it with eBay (lookup what you can) and take it to a local shop, and see what they'll give you for it. [20:35] Or, if you don't care too much about market parity, take the whole thing over there. [20:35] The good ones will work with you [20:35] market parity? [20:35] What the value of the item is vs what the store will give you for it [20:36] Oh. [20:36] figure most stores will give you about 10-20% of market value [20:36] Well, I probably won't sell them to a store but sell them myself. [20:36] TeamXlink: Also keep in mind that vinyl degrades with each playing [20:36] Yeah. [20:36] so you'll want to play them on a good turntable [20:36] rofl @ "most of them are the smaller ones" [20:36] I don't have a record player. [20:37] i assume you mean 45s [20:37] but its funny to ehar 'em called smaller ones. [20:37] TeamXlink: Borrow one, or go to a friends place [20:37] or check with the record shop [20:37] Yeah, [20:38] sounds just like buying real estate. [20:38] They have been in a crate for a long time, and some of them aren't even sleeves, so I think they might have the grooves on them worn down too much. [20:38] value is entirely subjective :) [20:38] jrwren: Well, if thy're white labels, they might be 7" singles. [20:38] 7" doesn't spin at 45? [20:38] Theres only 7 ones with blank labels. [20:38] Depends. I seem to remember some 7" were 33RPM [20:38] And on some of them one side is entirely smooth. [20:39] TeamXlink: Yeah, you likely have some white labels. [20:39] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_%28music%29 says usually 45rpm [20:39] So you'll need to listen to them to figure out what they are. [20:39] Darn. [20:39] jrwren: Think Dance music, not traditional 45RPMs. :) [20:40] luckily you can use shazam to find out what it is. [20:40] trance/house? [20:40] those are often 12" singles AFAIK [20:40] but i'm with ya. [20:40] Yeah, but not guaranteed. [20:40] :) [20:43] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TheTotallies.jpg [20:45] The public’s view of vampires as “romantic creatures” [20:45] couldn’t be more wrong – they only feign intimacy to lure in [20:45] prey, and they only sparkle when they’re on fire. [20:47] \m/ [20:47] make vampries scary again [20:47] were they ever scary? [21:38] you guys are nuts [21:38] ty for the kind RT words there brousch_ snap-l and mrs snap-l [22:09] :) [22:21] http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3QqO8EXd-II/TU0uREhst0I/AAAAAAAA9EE/G4kMJDDOlKo/s1600/image001.jpg [22:32] i'm mrs snap-l ? [22:32] jrwren: No, my wife retweeted my praise of rick_h_ [23:19] hah, oops, missed jrwren